you are correct. obviously, it had to be on the base of a real image with possible modifications.
since I've seen such chinese handiwork in the past I (incorrectly) assumed this was the case here too, without bothering to identify the actual aircraft.

More stupidity is all one can say.

Chinese military offers starting bonus to young grads


Either China is going out of its way to take excellent care of its soldiers, or it is faced with the problem of dwindling interest of the young generation towards the armed forces.

Most likely the latter. The younger generation of chinese across both ends of the strait is hardly interested in taking over OR defending Taiwain. (hence mandatory in Taiwain to do your 3 years).

However said that... the Chinese still have a huge pool of population with which they can fill their numbers. However the above report seems to be indicative of maintaining quality and not quantity.

Chinese Army excercises near AP

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... extIndex=4

Hope the Chinese don't try a 1962 on Tawang. The timing of this exercise coincides with HH Dalai Lama's visit to AP.

I wonder what the Red Horn Division is?

It shoud be understood as to what is driving China in this direction now. Constraining India’s growth aspirations and limiting its potential to the South Asian region continue to be underlying objectives in Chinese policies. It might also be in its interests to see much India can be pressured so as to extract the maximum in border negotiations with India. However, there has been so far no studies (am not aware of) that have looked into what is acceptable to the Chinese on the border question. What is the best possible, and the worst possible bargain that they are able to the public which they are willing to settle vis a vis India.

That is exactly what Uncle and TSP have in mind for India

There is another issue too. Ever since the end of the Cold War, communism has not been a unifying factor and the CPC has not been able to hold with communism. this remains an old theory; Chinese nationalism has clearly replaced communism. but what is more interesting, (even collaborated by some Hong Kong Chinese) is that they will not be able to take on Japan or Taiwan due to external factors such as the US, but that they will be able to take on India. and they will. this again contextualises recent Chinese actions.

PLA Air Force's 60th anniversary celebrations

Does anyone have any info. from India's side on this incident?
http://bbs.creaders.net/military/bbsvie ... _id=419356

Translation of the url from chinese to english using Google:


China and India Sandor Valley Events
Sent by: three knives November 3, 2009 20:53:24 in [military world] to send a private message
Sandor Valley Events

Said this matter, pure Zhuantie:


In the Sino-Indian border dispute, there is one incident, although few people know, but it is a very important event, the incident almost led to the second Sino-Indian border war, which is in the Shannan area Sandor Valley events.

Incident was in May 1987 of the day, by the Tibet Military District deputy head of Shannan Military Sub-District Frontier Regiment led the organization in a routine border inspection activities triggered. According to the Central Military Commission and headquarters requirements, the Tibet Military District due to bad weather in winter, in December after a year from the arrival of winter between years in April, in order to seal off the snow period, During this period, the border passes and focus of the company in addition to goals, lots to keep monitoring and patrolling, in general, can not be zone-wide inspections. In order to maintain effective control of borders and security, after the lunar new year, by the border defense regiments, an infantry unit and organized into a number of mobile inspection of the detachment of the entire border line, pull the net and carried out the inspection and dispatched to prevent the Indian Army to use this season encroaching our territory. Shannan subdistricts by the deputy head of the regiment's Zhezhi mobile patrol unit led by an infantry company to strengthen a surveillance classes (cavalry), 82 mortar platoon (three guns), a 82 recoilless gun platoon ( 4 guns), a heavy machine gun platoon (three heavy machine guns) formed. As can be seen, this is a fighting stance in accordance with the composition, and may at any time to cope with unexpected situations and the combat patrol unit, all personnel and equipment aboard more than 10 vehicles to carry out its mandate. In addition to deputy head, the command group also includes an operations staff officer, a reconnaissance staff, communications staff and a deputy battalion commander infantry battalions.


When the patrol to Dassant Valley lots more, it was already dark, deputy head of the locally ordered the troops to camp in preparation for the next morning and then went to the southern end of the Sino-Indian border valley to pass inspection. Forces camp on the camp after the dinner break, but the 21 o'clock number, is responsible for camp security guard at night found that the border pass valley on the southern tip of flame and speaking voice, he immediately reported the deputy head. Deputy head of the once up and observe, to confirm that someone in the pass direction of activities, and to determine where the activities for the Indian army. As a result, immediately ordered a reconnaissance, deputy head of the General Staff with a reconnaissance group to pass reconnaissance. Two hours later, the scout reconnaissance staff with a return (the other is still in situ to monitor the Indian Army), reported to the deputy head may have a company of Indian Army has occupied the valley in the past although the two sides without the designation, but the mutual confidence in our one high ground, and has built a combat fortifications. From the detected situation, Indian arrival time is not too long, fortification is not complete, as if is stepping up efforts to build in the. From its state of alert, it seems that did not find our army patrols have already arrived.


Under this scenario, once deputy head of the command staff to open the radio communication contact with the military sub-command, reporting the situation, but because the camps have been completed when the radio communication, but after ten radio stations are not agreed upon contact with the partition of time , radio operator can not be reached with the military sub-district communications. The deputy head of the prompt decision, order, deputy battalion commander and operations staff develop their tactical plans, and ordered the troops to immediately up to combat readiness, the five o'clock dinner, 5:30 start at dawn in a state of war to the Indian Army's total area representations, the radio tomorrow morning at eight, will be the current situation with its own report on the determination and the deployment of military sub-district with the regiment.


Around six in the morning (the dawn of time in Tibet at this time about 7:00 or so), in addition to communications and logistics personnel, patrol the entire grouping of combatants fighting and attacks by deploying into the attack on the starting position. In the position, the deputy head of the unit commanders to the battle once again made clear the plans and combat deployment in the event of accident, the force will take the offensive or defensive depending on the circumstances. Then the fighting forces began to build fortifications. Reconnaissance from the then situation, the Indian army in the valley of the strength of our important high ground about one and a reinforced platoon, but 500 meters later, there is a row of troops, deputy head of the Indian forces to determine about a company, and equipped with 60 mortars and heavy machine guns and other heavy weapons, there may be more in-depth strength and large-caliber artillery support. The deployment from the Indian perspective, was originally prepared to control the high ground on our long-term presence, is indeed eating into my territory, promote the effective control area operations. TNI has been basically completed the combat readiness, according to the normal representations, it will not withdraw from our control area, and is likely to take the initiative to attack me.


Under this scenario, deputy head of the then drafted a telegram, the telegram will be carried out reconnaissance and detailed report once again, and asked for reinforcements immediately, deputy head of the Indian Army to determine this is eating into our territory by force of organized action, is estimated as in the past could not make it out through negotiation, the fighting is likely to explode, and could quickly escalate. We will be in line with the principle of non-fired the first shot efforts to force it to withdraw from negotiations through border areas controlled by our practice, but once the Indian initiative to use force, we will be proactive in ensuring the overall safety and the circumstances, resolutely fight back, and adhere to the reinforcements arrive.


At 8 o'clock or so, with a battalion commander, deputy head of the associate staff and 3 reconnaissance scouts, one newspaper and one translation, then go to Indian occupied our highland justified to intervene, pointing out that Indian Army has already seriously a violation of our territory, and now must immediately make way, otherwise all the consequences arising from the Indian side should be responsible. Reach the Indian Army positions in the deputy battalion commander, through a portable speaker shouted to the Indian Army, the TNI an officer with a few soldiers came down the ground, the Deputy Battalion Commander informed him of his duties and requirements, the Indian Army officers, said This is the territory of India, the Indian army does not retreat, and asked the soldiers to leave, or else all the serious consequences resulting therefrom should be borne by the Chinese side. In the conduct of patient negotiations, the Indian army has always been arrogance, as if the discovery of a small number of Chinese armed forces, the Indian soldiers pointed their weapons at China's representations began to threaten staff, while entrenched on high ground to fight the Indian army also began to activity. Indian officers and soldiers, and even these gestures and language stream staff to negotiate an insult to our military. See the negotiations without results, deputy head of the command staff officer, deputy battalion commander and reconnaissance withdrawn. However, in the process of retracement of our personnel, the Indian suddenly I representations officer shooting (according to the Indian side later explained that because the soldiers tensions caused by fire), on the spot and injuring my deputy battalion commander, the deputy battalion commander later died from blood loss too much expense.


In view of the first Indian to me fired, and wounded my representations to the commander, deputy head, I immediately ordered the troops to attack. At this point, I attacked the starting attack unit has been fully occupied position, and to take a roundabout surrounded by tactical maneuvering to the Indian Army launched an attack on the rear. In my mortars and recoilless rifles and other fire support, I just attacking unit for half an hour, both captured by the illegal occupation of our Indian Heights, Indian Army killed a total of 13 people, including officers, a person (Warrant Officer deputy platoon leader), eight enemy prisoner and the rest flee south, our army had not been pursued. Battle, our dead four people and injuring 11 others. To seize the illegal seizure of our Indian highlands, the deputy head of the defense immediately ordered the deployment of troops in preparation for the fight against the enemy's counterattack. Sure enough, around 2:00 p.m., in the TNI in the depth of the large-caliber artillery support, a reinforced company of the Indian Army is about to begin my defense forces launched an attack, but in our military firepower, the Indian attack soon Refund.


After dark, the Indian army continued to mortars and depth of my positions intermittent artillery fire attacks, deputy head of the Indian army may be judged dawn the next day will continue to attack, ordered the troops to increase repair fortifications, do a good job against the enemy large-scale offensive preparation. All our military combatant commanders, all-night build fortifications, leaving the use of Indian engineering equipment and materials, the rapid completion of defensive preparations and deployment, vigilant Indian attack. Meanwhile, the deputy head will have happened in Shannan promptly to the Mission and the Department of Military Sub-District has done a report, said it would stick to the last one.

Shannan receiving the deputy head of the military sub-report, immediately to the Tibet Military Region, Chengdu Military Region, reported on the current situation occurred, and immediately transferred to organize mobile forces to reinforce patrols. Immediately ordered the heads of the Tibet Military District 53 Mountain Infantry Brigade to urgent calls for reinforcements Sandor valley direction, while reporting the Chengdu Military Region and the War Department General Staff.


Third day of the dawn, the Indian Army turned to a reinforced battalion of troops in the artillery fire support, to my Border Patrol launched an offensive, the fighting continued into the afternoon, due to the tenacious fight our army, the Indian Army in dozens of casualties people, stop the attack. But the attendant was sent Indian fighters and helicopters on our side of the continuous surveillance, threats, and the steady increase in strength in depth, it seems ready for a bigger offensive.


But on the third night, I Shannan subdistricts an infantry battalion reinforcements arrived first and immediately entered the defense area, and strengthen defense forces. The fourth day, I have 53 mountain infantry brigade will begin to arrive, bringing large-caliber artillery pieces and rocket launchers, and further enhance our strength. Meanwhile, the Tibet Military Command quickly sent forces deep in the valley opened Santos advance command post, ready to organize forces to the Indian aggression fight back, will be completely expelled from our Indian territory.

As the growing strength of our military reinforcements, the Indian army may have to determine its full-scale attack was launched, so, also began to constantly mobilize manpower, the Indian Army Headquarters, Military Region to the east sent a war mobilization order began a large-scale to the conflict enhance the strength of the region. Two weeks after the conflict, the Indian army has been mobilized in this direction, a headquarters, two divisions and a total of about 7 brigades and a lot of artillery and tanks, deployed with the armed forces to conduct a large-scale war effort.


In view of the Indian Army responded quickly, troop movements quickly and easily, our judgments have the expansion and upgrading of Indian war, the possibility of war in response to Indian provocations, the General Staff Operations, 13,21,54 to the first Army issued a pre-orders, required to prepare three army troops to Tibet to participate in a pre-printed self-defense operations, to determine the first batch of 149 troops entered the war divisions, 37 divisions, 61 divisions and 160 divisions (ie, in the Sino-Indian border in 1962 to obtain counterattack walung victory of the 130 divisions), and requested the Chengdu Military Region forward command post set up in Tibet, organized fighting forces scheduled to go to the theater commander surveying roads and terrain. Conflict, two weeks later, I scheduled the fighting forces of the air above the division commander arrived in front, began to look at the terrain and road conditions, and carrying out their assigned head of the Chengdu Military Region, ordered the intended combat missions. June fighting forces, the commanders of the regiment and battalion levels to reach the front line, organizing a look at the terrain, carrying out their assigned tasks, of which 149 teachers and 37 divisions of the vanguard had reached the front line.


According to the Central Military Commission officer "to exercise restraint, and resolutely to counter" the operational guidelines and instructions, head of the Chengdu Military Region, the former refers to the determination is: 13 Army commanding 52 Mountain Infantry Brigade, 37 Division and the 160 division in the direction of Bapu Ka walung and combat ready fighter of the Indian Army located in the direction of the first two divisions, the former refers to the Tibet Military Region command 53 Brigade, 149 divisions and 21 divisions, so that cases in Germany to Lalu lot operations, ready to hit Indian fighter 4th Division, the camera resolution against Indian 17 division. Requiring the troops to battle in the assembly and preparation by the end of June, July started as a battle of the initial time, when the second batch of combat troops began to arrive after the attack. Indian campaign to wipe out the front two main divisions, to recover possession of the South will focus on two objectives of the land in dispute, in one fell swoop to solve the territorial boundaries of our claims.


India at that time to determine the direction of our army has been in Yunnan, the Vietnamese army with combat, it may be difficult at the same time respond to the direction of Tibet, it was nothing to fear and the threat of war against me. However, as army reinforcements quickly maneuver in place quickly and continuously transferred from the mainland before the crack of the main force, the Indian army began to feel the seriousness of the situation and demanded the Soviet Union for support. TNI was large-scale war may be imminent at any time, it may evolve into the second Sino-Indian border war. To this end, India launched a fierce internal debate, not only can win in this war? Due to internal disagreements, while the Soviet Union since Mikhail Gorbachev came to power, the Soviet Union faced serious political and economic difficulties, the Soviet Union when both said that India can not support the war and asked India to abandon its war plans, to conduct political negotiations with China, the peaceful settlement of border conflict. At the same time, the Soviet Union also sent a special envoy to China pledged to try to stop India's war effort. India is also within the intellectual faction prevailed, and so the Indian Army began to take the initiative to withdraw troops from the contact with the armed forces, and through diplomatic channels and I asked the peaceful settlement of the conflict.

In view of the position of India has started to retreat from the war, but also expressed do not want a war with China, the attitude and take the initiative in order to withdraw the troops Santos Valley had control of both the traditional areas, the Chinese Government has accepted the Indian idea of a peaceful settlement of the conflict, in August, the Central Military Commission lifted the mandate of the Force combat missions in Tibet mission, the former out to Tibet's forces and command structures gradually withdrawn in the Mainland. China to the Indian side handed over the bodies of prisoners of war and died.

This is a very regrettable campaign actions, the reason why the last to recover possession of the South have not been able to reach the most important reason, not because of India's back, and because our military operations in Yunnan, when the central government that can not be two direction at the same time fighting with the two countries, especially with a large country like India, once the war began, size, time and development is difficult to predict, so finally gave up the offensive, we are ready to the vast number of officers and men of war whom the distraught invariably sigh, if it was war, which India will not only lose my southern Tibet occupation of land will lose his self-confessed two flagship divisions - the 2nd and 4th divisions hit by the iron fist of our military, this war will be than the last time a war against greater losses because our military strength and firepower for this mobilization, far exceeding the combat force in 1962.

Strategic opportunities is such that once lost, it is difficult to ask to return, India should survive the combat and lessons of joy, and we will not compete for the actions of this regret. It is precisely because of this conflict alert, the new Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi came to power, they immediately put forward the policy of detente with China and both sides began negotiations on a political settlement of border issue.

Chinese Y-XX transport a/c to be unveiled Dec 2009 for flight testing. 200 Tonne payload capacity (C-17 Globemaster class)

Possible rendering:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7027/newlifter1.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5108/newlifter2.jpg

Gotta hand it to them... they think big and have made some impressive strides in many fields. Hopefully will kick some sense into Indian strategic corridors in a hurry.

having competition is good... gets the juices flowing.

BS photoshop!! EDIT can get even make an Il-76 class yet.

You got to give China at least one thing. They certainly put some effort in photoshop even if they are unable to convert these cgs to reality.
First J-XX and now Y-XX.

Err....200 tonne payload Thats more than the Condor/Ruslan or the C5...more like the 225 Myria...Eh gawd run for the hills boys....

If the Chinese can pull off a 200 tonner this will be a massive achievement and anybody even considering subduing China will be impossible task. In case of war India will only have the nuclear option to protect - MIRVd IRBMS and ICBMS (hopefully they will work) and an all out war if they start a war.

Well, have to salute them for their PS abilities!

However, I don't doubt their ability to deliver their promises. Remember, we were also laughing when they said they wanted to go to space. Our media was saying how stupid to go to space when we could spend the money on bla bla bla things and when amrika had already been there and done it. Now, America restarted their moon program due to their threat and India, hmmm, it is our plan to go to the moon. We are also proposing a budget for manned moon space even before we had actually sent a man to space yet. See the similarities? China claimed to have finished a 200T plane when it havent build even a IL-78 class plane. India is telling the world it is going to the moon before it can go to space. We even told the whole world we are a new nuclear POWWAH with a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE when in reality its a hull with no reactor and not a single missile in it.

next in line is the XXX.


that is incorrect. yes, I do know about the news reports.

If they they are bringing it to Dubai airshow - they mean it. They dont like embarrassments, they believe the new century is theirs and they will do anything to show how far ahead they are of the US.

All this will do is make is Japan, Korea, India and other states arm themselves to the teeth. Life with China armed and arming like this is going to make everyone very very uncomfortable.

I couldn't agree more with your post. I think China has developed massive production know how of advanced technology by becoming the production center of the world in the last 20 years. They are investing heavily in R&D and its just a matter of time before they build everything that they need in order to gain parity with U.S.A and the rest of the free world.

I am really amazed at how all the veteran jingos are quick to pounce at the news of Chinese advancement in technology as photoshopped crap. Also, there are many here that are ready to dismiss the middle-eastern countries as just a bunch of lazy guys with zero intellectual capacity. I invite them to watch this:

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/200410 ... mv&ak=null

Thanks to the educational institutions of the west there is a renaissance going on in these countries while all we are doing really is sitting at every nukkad talking about how wonderful we are.

As it stands right now, China excels us in every single field except perhaps for software developement where too they are quickly catching up to us using our institutions such as NIIT which are opening up branches in China.

dear bruno, why use a broad brush and project racist attitudes on to people ? if you come across such posts counter it, this general rant serves little purpose.

p.s couldn't open your vid, what was in it ?


whatever floats your boat ! if it's doom and gloom, then so be it !

My darling Lutz, the posts of that kind are way too many to counter. In any case I thought it was your job to counter them.
For example, one guy used a banned word above, did you notice that?


The video was an interview of a Bahraini scholar by the name of dhiya al-musawi.


It is sinking my boat. But, it sure does look like underestimating China is floating yours.

no I didn't. it's not possible for the mods to read everything and keep track of every little transgression. we depend on members to bring to our notice the ones we miss.

but you did notice ! so why didn't you report it ?
if you don't care enough to do that, you have no job occupying the moral high ground and lecture people.



how old are you ? if that juvenile and ridiculous response is the best you can do I seriously doubt your intention or ability to contribute meaningfully to this forum.

btw, what is this supposed to mean ?

I love the "China Air Force" markings on this magnificent picture of a Guano Dung Go 117 aircraft. That is the new name for the PLAAF.

yes, I'm a very disinterested mod. I'll always ask for your approval sir, from next time, I promise.
now keep your whines to yourself if you want to stay here.

incidentally, what's the source of this Y-XX news ? google doesn't turn up much.
there's nothing on the sites of the usual suspects.
which engine does it use ?

but of course, there's the PS images, which means china is 10,0000000 years ahead of India.

Is it whining if I put a smiley face here: after reading this?

are you here to whine and make smart comments or do you want to contribute meaningfully ?
if its the later I request you once again to shore up your performance.

just a hint : making asinine and unsubstantiated allegations is NOT the way to do it.

That's because the "news" is from an unmentionable forum. No links there either.

china has been interested in building its own large aircraft for sometime now. they tried to reverse engineer the boeing 727 in the 1980s powered by some 707 engines allegedly brought in from Pakistan . didn't work.

They are currently looking at Y-8 derivatives (Y-9) in the C-130J class and are also developing the ARJ-21 regional transport aircraft.

they have been involved in the An-70 project for their 40-60 ton requirements and were even talking of co-producing the An-124 in china. However given that they have on order a whole lot of Il-76s, it remains to be see where the An-70 project heads.

Of late I have seen reports about china trying to make the world's largest amphibious aircraft- the dragon 600.

The Y-XX seems to be a very far out speculative project, if it at all exits.

"Guano Dung Go" ??

It looks like the USAF markings from the 60s and 70s, excepts it in bright commie red while the aircraft is a cheap C17 look-a-like! All virtues that exemplify the "Made in China" badge!

Aerospace Engine situation with the big transport

As you guys all know, the biggest problem that PLAAF have always had is the lack of high performing engine series. J-10 still relies on AL-31FN. We didn't see any new J-10s for a while, because they used up all of the AL-31FNs. J-11B used WS-10A for a while, but had so much problems that many of them are also using AL-31F. H-6K project was basically stopped, because the suspension of the contract for 240 D-30KP2. J-10 and H-6K production basically only restarted recently because China started to purchase engines from the Russians again. Similarly, the L-15 project has been delayed and Z-10 project has been delayed. Of all the project, I think the one that is the most important for PLAAF and has suffered the most is the large transport project. It's quite apparent that PLAAF needs something in the class of D-30KP2 to equip not only the large transport but also H-6K, newer variants of H-6 and possible future bomber projects. We all know about the tremendous need for large transport in PLAAF. They basically can't build newer KJ-2000 units, because they are running so low on IL-76 airframes.

Having said all of this. It appears that the prototypes and first batch of the large transport will be using D-30KP2 or the domestic version WS-18. WS-18 is being produced by ChengFa group (Website). Chengdu engine group (aka Factory 420) is also tasked with license production of L-15's engine AI-222-25F. People will ask why they are depending on something so old (China has had access to it since the 80s when they imported Tu-154). The truth is that PLAAF just needs something that works. D-30KP3 at this point is still not ready for mass production, so they have to go with KP2. PS-90A is a possibility, but PLAAF is going for the cheaper option for purchase and license production (or possibly unlicensed production). Therefore, WS-18 is pretty much just going to be the domestic version of D-30KP2, although maybe slightly improved in fuel efficiency and such. This engine was said to have had its first flight in January of 2007, so it should be ready for the large transport when it makes its first flight in 2012. It will probably ready even earlier for H-6K, H-6U and other variants of H-6.

On top of WS-18, there is also a high bypass turbofan engine under development with its core based on WS-10A. It will eventually be the engine used to power the large transport. I think a variant of it will probably also be pitched as the engine for C919. Now, we all thought that Shenyang Liming (606 Institute) was going to be developing it, but we found out recently that the work has been given to Xi'an AeroEngine (410 Institute). In many ways, it does make sense for XAEC to develop/produce this engine, because Xi'an is also the home of XAC/SAC, which is in charge the large transport project. However, Shenyang Liming is the developer of WS-10A and follow-up variants, so it's unusual for the large bypass variant of the engine to be given to someone else. At this point, Liming still has WP-14 Kunlun series, WS-10A Taihang series, a bunch of domestic gas turbines (QC-70, QC-128, QC-168, QC-185 and QC-260). We all know about the troubles in the WS-10A, but I've read that the Kunlun series also have had a lot of problems. Amongst all the major gas turbine projects, only QC-70 and QC-128 are ready for production. XAEC is now working on WS-9, WS-15, 1/3 of the production work for WS-10A, the large bypass turbofan engine for large transport and most of the production for QC-280. As the result of this, XAEC will be responsible for the future power plant of JH-7A, 5th gen fighter, large transport/special mission aircraft and major warships and also be very instrumental in the power plant of J-10 and J-11. A few years ago, it seemed that Liming was becoming the dominant engine maker in China due to its role in Kunlun and Taihang series, which were the 2 most important aerospace engine projects at that time (and possibly still are). However, due to its failure in those 2 projects and delays in the gas turbine projects, it has really lost out to XAEC, which performed well with WS-9 and QC-280. I think the shift of this extremely high profile project is a sign that PLA is really unhappy with Liming.

Anyhow, there is a really good article written by SAERI (Shenyang AeroEngine Research Institute). It talks about the 2 engine possibilities (WS-18 and the one based on WS-10) that could be used to power a domestic large transport. The engines are designed to be comparable to D-30KP2 in size/dimension. China has two previous attempts at medium to large turbofan engine. WS-5 from the 60s had a bypass ratio of 1.49 and WS-6 had a bypass ratio of 1.85. Comparatively speaking, D-30KP2 has a bypass ratio of 2.42 while a modern airliner engine like CFM-56-5A has a ratio of 6 and PS-90A has a ratio of 4.6. In this article, SAERI put out to proposals:

1. WS-Y1 (I guess WS-18 here) that has the same dimension as D-30KP2, with the same thrust, but slight improvement in the bypass ratio
2. WS-Y2 (the one based on WS-10) that has slightly different ratio, with the same thrust, but bigger improvement in the bypass ratio


In the analysis, they believe that the air consumption of Y1 would be 285 kg/s and of Y2 would be 380 kg/s. That will produce bypass ratio of around 3 for Y1 and 5 to 6 for Y2. The fan diameter of Y1 would be 1460mm like it is for D-30KP2 and 1700 mm for Y2. The thrust at takeoff mode would be the same for Y1 and Y2 as it is for D-30KP2 (12000 kgf). At an altitude of 11000 m and speed of mach 0.8, the fuel consumption rates would be 0.67-0.68 for Y1 and 0.6-0.62 for Y2 compared to 0.7 for D-30KP2 and 0.595 for PS-90A. And the takeoff fuel consumption rates would be 0.45-0.48 for Y1 and 0.35-0.38 for Y2 compared to 0.51 for D-30KP2.

Unfortunately, it's hard to verify how close these figures would be to the engines that get developed. However, due to the fact that this was written by SAERI which basically developed the engines that are now being produced by Shenyang Liming, I think the published numbers should not be that far from the truth. It looks like they have achieved much better fuel consumption numbers than D-30KP2, but still trails PS-90A and obviously the latest variants of CFM-56. Something along the line of Y2 is more than enough for China's large transport needs. However, I find it curious that they think they can develop a domestic engine option that can compete against next generation Western options (like PW's GTF series), when it would likely be inferior to CFM-56-7 series.

The order for 240 D-30KP2 made in 2005 is finally getting carried out this year. These engines might all be delivered by 2012. I think China chose this ahead of KP3 and PS-90A due to maturity of the engine, its lower cost and not wanting to support two lines of high-bypass Russian turbofan engines. By that time, WS-18 should be more than ready to be equipped. WS-10-118 (which is the code name for the large bypass engine prototype based on WS-10A) will probably be ready 3 or 4 years later for the domestic large transport project. WS-18 will still be produced at that point to service the existing fleet using D-30KP2 engines.

http://china-pla.blogspot.com/2009/10/a ... h-big.html

Well its quite obvious that the chinese are way behind the americans in engine design,as india is going for the C-17 i hope indians gain some knowldge.

nice article. the WS-18 (I think) is an attempt at reverse engineering the CFM which they had access to from the stocks of the domestic operators.

Was going through the An-70 wiki page, and it said that the Chinese were looking at a turbofan variant(no citations given though).

^^y-xx could be just that.The fuselage shape is very similar,in fact other than the engine the two look almost the same.There is no way they are making a 200t lifter..

"Guano Dung Go" What that is the new name of PLAAF?

the turbofan An-70 story is likely an internet rumour. aparently it's not possible without re-designing the whole airframe, essentially a new aircraft.

and while we blow hot and cold about the MTA, they are seriously at work on building the 1st sample (static testbed) of Y-20 cargo plane.
ETA is expected 2018.

dont forget with Embraer and A321 assembly the required domestic ecosystem of tools , trained people and training will be more than available in few yrs.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9156/2 ... 510958.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4207 ... da9321.jpg

it will be kind of good if we cancel the flag waving & chai biskoot and
get cracking on the MTA.