Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

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Jarita
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Jarita »

little after General Kapoor's claim, the Government of India admitted, formally, that China had eaten away vast amounts of [presumably unpatrolled, or sparsely visited] border territory. Even more interesting than the government's admission was the fact that Indians seemed beyond caring.
This is where I believe MJ Akbar is trying major psy ops. He is trying to build public opinion by intepreting public opinion.
People of India simply did not know. The semi objective media reported it, enough to provoke a statement by govt. The govt chamcha TV media steered clear of it till they got a reaction.

MJ Akbar has steadily moved from a neutral position to a somewhat anti India position in a neutral guise. Check him out from "Telegraph" days when he was a Congress hand. I have no idea who he represents anymore.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Gerard »

Suicide bomb attack in Kashmir hurts soldiers
At least two soldiers have been injured in a suicide bomb attack on a military vehicle in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, officials say.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Vivek_A »

Just when you thought earth-e-shaster couldn't get nuttier..

http://pakobserver.net/201001/16/Articles02.asp
On the other side, with the realistic approach, America officials and media have started focusing on Hindu fundamentalism in face of leakage of the Justice Liberation Commisssion, admitting the official involvement of the leadership of the BJP in connection with the destruction of the Babri Masjid—and over other developments like human violations in the Indian-held Kashmir including violence against the Muslim and Christian communities.Presently the positive image of Pakistan has irked the eyes of New Delhi. Despite their diplomatic defeat, Indian leaders have still been blackmailing Islamabad through threats of war. Depressed in their anti-Pakistan aims, Indian lobbies are also making strenuous efforts in maligning Islamabad in the western countries. It could be judged from a recent attempt. The Australian government has played down a travel advisory issued by Indian warning in relation to risk of violence against Indian students in Melbourne—after an Indian graduate, Nitin Garg, was stabbed to death in the city, and New Delhi pointed finger at Pakistanis indirectly. But acting Australian Foreign Minister Simon Crean urged Indian leaders to avoid fuelling hysteria and said that Melbourne was safe for visitors.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

Delivery of 100 missiles from Brazil to start this year

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=157281

ISLAMABAD/RIO De JANEIRO: The supply of 100 automatic Anti Radiant missiles (MAR-1) to Pakistan from Brazil would be started this year.

Defense sources informed Online that Government of Brazil on December 03, 2008 gave approval for the sale of 100 missiles to Pakistan, which can be used in air-to-surface attacks on radar tracking installations. After formal agreement, the supply of such missiles would be started to Pakistan from Brazil this year and would be completed in 2 or 3 years, sources said, adding that, the medium-range missiles is being made by Brazilian firm Mectron.

Sources went on to say that not only missiles would be given to Pakistan but also Brazilian authorities would impart training and other facilities to Pakistani authorities in this respect.

MAR-I having 25 to 30 kilometer range is anti-radiant missile and can be used in air to surface attack on radar tracking installations of enemy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

Pak nuke capability sans US aid: Dr Khan

Islamabad—Renowned Nuclear Scientist of Pakistan Dr. Qadeer Khan has pointed out that Pakistan owing to its best missile technology can target every city of India and Pakistan got its nuclear capability without American assistance. He was talking to visit media fare on Saturday.

Talking to a private TV channel here on Friday, he disclosed that Pakistan had got the nuclear capability in 1984 and Pakistan had not utilized American assistance to for its atomic capability adding that during the decade of ninety annual budget of KRL (Kahuta Research Laboratories was allocated only $ 20-25 millions.

Responding to a query, he disclosed that former President Pervez Musharraf has threatened to hang him, unless he ‘admitted the mistake before the Nation for being responsible for transferring nuclear capability to other countries”.

http://pakobserver.net/201001/17/news/topstories08.asp
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

Bicycle Diaries

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... es/568247/

His journey across 13 countries across myriad landscapes and civilizations is fascinating in itself. “On the Russian border, a soldier held me at gunpoint and yelled at me. I couldn’t understand him and yelled back in English pleading for my life. Later, I understood that he wanted me to drink vodka with him,” says Danny.

In Uzbekistan he was chased by wild dogs and in Kiev in Ukraine, he was propositioned by sex workers. Danny was chased by a bandit on horseback carrying a whip and wearing a gaucho hat, and beaten up in Kyrgyzstan. He spent two weeks in a desert without sighting a human being and has wept at the Auschwitz. All this within a span six months.

“While entering Pakistan from China, soldiers at the check-post made be wear handcuffs and played with me to amuse themselves. I didn’t mind,” he adds. “When I managed to persuade them, I thought I’d fly down to India,” said Danny. But because Danny himself has discouraged all his students to use public transport, he didn’t have the heart to tell his students that he’ll fly to India. “I decided that I’d cycle down,” he added.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

VC: a mix of ****, corruption!

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=26722

Sunday, January 17, 2010

By Rauf Klasra

ISLAMABAD: The newly-appointed Vice Chancellor of the University of Sindh — Dr Nazir Moghul — has landed in a controversy within the first seven days of his appointment, as it has now been revealed after about 10 years that during his previous term at the university as its VC (1995-1999), he had been getting the bills of **** tablets paid from the university budget in the name of his “medical treatment” in the US.

The official copies of these bills (available with The News) containing the details of **** tablets make an interesting reading.

The documents showed that a set of 30 **** tables was purchased in the US when Dr Moghul had gone there in the name of “medical treatment” and claimed the bill when he returned to the university. The copy of the bill, paid by the university, confirmed that it was purchased from the Rite Aid Pharmacy and Dr Singh Karpia had prescribed Dr Nazir Moghul the use of 100mg **** tablets. Dr Singh had written in his prescription that Dr Moghul was a “senior citizen”, so he should be given **** on demand. The total cost of the 30 **** tablets was $243.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

Cultivating brevity
Sunday, January 17, 2010
This is in response to Brig (r) Asif Alvi’s comments (January 14) on Ayaz Amir’s article "Cultivating brevity and calmness" (January 8) in which he has supported the viewpoint of the columnist. Brig Alvi criticised the response of the COAS and the CJCSC to Gen Kapoor’s comments threatening Pakistan and China simultaneously. Pakistan and India are traditional rivals. Therefore, any negative statement from the Indian side has to be effectively countered at the appropriate level. In all probability it can be said that had our army chief not responded to Gen Kapoor’s threat he would have faced even greater criticism. And now that he has responded to it, it is being termed a 'breach of protocol’ suggesting that such statements should come from the ISPR alone. The ISPR’s main role is to hold press briefings on the operations of the army, and not to respond to the statements of the Indian army chief.

Pakistan is an independent, sovereign state. It cannot take such threats lightly. The army chief’s response was timely and had an immediate impact as it brought an end to the war of words. Let us appreciate the COAS and avoid criticising the army for the heck of it.


Lt-Col (r) Mukhtar Ahmed Butt

Karachi

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=219209
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

Militants blow up gas pipeline in Balochistan

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=11 ... =351020401

Militants in Pakistan's Balochistan have destroyed parts of a pipeline, disrupting gas flow to nearby towns in the bleak winter.

However, repairs on the gas pipeline have not begun, causing great distress for Pakistanis who are battling harsh winter weather in the area.

Electricity grids and gas pipelines have been a popular target amongst the local militants, who seek more autonomy and control of the province's gas resources.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

Pakistan: Now or Never?

http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/ ... and-china/

You can see the full interview here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfikRg2jE 6o
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Kakkaji »

Swapan Dasgupta's take, in dailypioneer.com. Posting in full. My apologies if already posted:

On Pak, Govt must not blink
Swapan Dasgupta

Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was an awesome demagogue. Much before the technique became common currency in the inspirational-talks circuit, he used an ‘interactive’ approach to keep his audiences enthralled. In the course of his speeches he would invariably pose anodyne questions to his listeners and then await the roar of approval. I recall listening on the radio to one of his speeches during the troublesome aftermath of liberation. He posed the question “Do you want more roads?” and waited for the inevitable response. He then asked, “Do you want more buses?” and then gloated over the mass reply.

I am reminded of Mujib in the context of an epidemic of apparent brotherhood that has suddenly gripped a small section of the media and civil society in recent weeks. At numerous occasions we have been asked the question: “Do you want peace between India and Pakistan?”

The answer is obvious. Apart from a handful of crazies, there isn’t anyone in India who is opposed to peace in the neighbourhood, whether it involves Pakistan, China or even Burma. It doesn’t require strategic affairs experts and Track 3 activists to tell us that India would rather be building roads and schools than diverting resources into expensive military hardware. I can’t speak for Pakistan but, presumably, the overall feeling across the Radcliffe Line wouldn’t be all that different. Sensible Pakistanis have had an overdose of jihad and wouldn’t mind exploring other facets of theology.

Of course, there is a flip side to the earnest desire for peace. There is an un-stated assumption that an undeclared war or, if you so prefer, a proxy war exists between India and Pakistan. It is a war that India has experienced in different ways throughout the past decade and which is also being waged in Nepal, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and the anarchic zones along the Indo-Burmese border. The war has made life insecure in Indian cities, created zones of treachery in ghettos, diverted tourist traffic and even made it difficult for people to accept Rs 500 currency notes without fear of forgeries. Yes, the late Gen Zia-ul Haq’s “war of a thousand cuts” has cost India dearly — although Pakistan too has suffered from the blowback.

It is easy to buy short-term peace by following the essence of Mahatma Gandhi’s intriguing advice to the persecuted Jews of Hitler’s Germany: To be prepared for immeasurable suffering and even a massacre of the entire community since “to the god-fearing, death has no terror”. In political terms this would involve withdrawal from the Siachen heights, agreeing to dual sovereignty over Jammu & Kashmir and conceding Pakistan’s overriding sphere of influence in Afghanistan. In other words, leave Pakistan with no substantial grievance against India and, presumably, emerge as such a morally superior nation that the Swedes would have no alternative but to confer the Nobel Prize for Peace on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

If you imagine this is a caricature, just examine the fine print of the writings of those who are praising the “instincts” and “tactical acumen” of the Prime Minister and advocating a “region-led” (as opposed to a “US-led”) approach to Afghanistan. The grapevine in Lutyens’ Delhi suggests that the advocates of such a foreign policy course-correction have the ears of the Prime Minister, but that could well be conjecture. Manmohan does have a penchant for encouraging others to assume the part of a stalking horse — witness Jairam Ramesh’s role in the climate change debate — and taking refuge behind a shield of deniability. The joint Indo-Pakistani statement in Sharm el-Sheikh was one of the few occasions where he allowed full play to his “instincts” and “tactical acumen”. The result was a shamefaced retreat before Parliament and a silly bid to blame the unacceptable formulations on “clumsy” drafting.

What has happened in the months following Sharm el-Sheikh to warrant an overdrive for peace? Pakistan has persisted with its obstructionist attitude towards investigations into the 26/11 Mumbai carnage; more evidence has emerged of Pakistani involvement in the massacre; the wafer-thin line between the Pakistani state and ‘non-state players’ such as the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba has disappeared; Pakistan itself has been plagued by daily attacks on civilian and military targets by suicide bombers; large chunks of western Pakistan are in the midst of a civil war; the fragile civilian Government in Islamabad has become even more shakier and there is concern over who is actually in charge; and the Kerry-Luger legislation has set the stage for greater US involvement in the civil administration of Pakistan.

If Pakistan was a dangerous place before 26/11, it has become infinitely more volatile in the ensuing 14 months. This is no doubt tough on the Pakistani people, particularly that section of the middle classes which is more at ease in Mumbai and Delhi than at home. To be unable to reciprocate their goodwill towards India is painful and there is a very strong case for enlarging the scope of people-to-people contacts with Pakistan, if only to showcase India’s soft power.

India could certainly do with more visits by Pakistani cricketers, musicians, artists, novelists and others who are genuinely committed to cross-border amity. There is even a case for unilaterally allowing more Pakistani traders to sell their fruits, carpets and shoes to access the Indian market without expecting reciprocity. If this is what is meant by ‘peace’, India should be prepared to go the extra mile.

But that’s where it has to stop for the moment. As far as Government-to-Government relations are concerned, India has absolutely no reason to let down its guard. At least not until there is conclusive evidence that the Pakistani establishment has become weary of persisting with a policy that is aimed at causing maximum pain to India.

The Government of India must not blink.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Nayak »

Poor schooling slows anti-terrorism effort in Pakistan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02660.html

By Griff Witte
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 17, 2010

ISLAMABAD, PAKISTAN -- With a curriculum that glorifies violence in the name of Islam and ignores basic history, science and math, Pakistan's public education system has become a major barrier to U.S. efforts to defeat extremist groups here, U.S. and Pakistani officials say.

Western officials tend to blame Islamic schools, known as madrassas, for their role as feeders to militant groups, but Pakistani education experts say the root of the problem is the public schools in a nation in which half of adults cannot sign their own name. The United States is hoping an infusion of cash -- part of a $7.5 billion civilian aid package -- will begin to change that, and in the process alter the widespread perception that Washington's only interest in Pakistan is in bolstering its military.

That ideology, Hussain said, involves the belief that non-Muslim nations are out to destroy Pakistan and that the army is the only protection Pakistanis have from certain annihilation. Those notions are emphasized at every level in the schools, with students focused on memorizing the names of Pakistan's military heroes and the sayings of the prophet Muhammad, but not learning the basics of algebra or biology, he said.

"Telling students they need to use evidence and logic means that you are definitely an agent of India, Israel and the CIA," he said. "They don't understand what evidence is." :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

U.S. officials say the money will be spent on a combination of programs, including infrastructure improvements, teacher training and updates to the curriculum. Unlike in past years, the money will not be filtered through non-governmental organizations and contractors but will be given directly to Pakistan's government, officials say.

Top government officials have little incentive to change that, experts here say. Although the vast majority of Pakistanis must choose between the public schools or madrassas for their children, Pakistan's well-to-do can send their kids to private schools, many of which are considered world-class.

But Pervez Hoodbhoy, a noted nuclear physicist at Islamabad's Quaid-i-Azam University and a longtime proponent of education reform, said Pakistan needs something more fundamental.

"I don't think it's a matter of money. The more you throw at the system, the faster it leaks out," he said. "There has to be a desire to improve. The U.S. can't create that desire. When Pakistanis feel they need a different kind of education system, that's when it will improve."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Kakkaji »

Jarita wrote:MJ Akbar has steadily moved from a neutral position to a somewhat anti India position in a neutral guise. Check him out from "Telegraph" days when he was a Congress hand. I have no idea who he represents anymore.
I have been following MJ Akbar's writings over a long time. Over the past few years he has moved towards being a Jihad sympathizer. He covers it well in language of seeming moderation. IMHO he is the best wordsmith among all English language journalists in India, but his sympathies are moving clearly towards the Jihadis.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Jarita »

^^^ And he is constantly signalling - Harit Pradesh and now this
Basically, he is saying that the govt should go ahead with compromises because there will be no consequences
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by shaardula »

since character study of Akbar is not a subject of this thread, i request you to kindly take that elsewhere. thanks.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Nayak's link wrote:"Telling students they need to use evidence and logic means that you are definitely an agent of India, Israel and the CIA," he said. "They don't understand what evidence is."
Unkil is flushing money down pakistan and will continue to do so for a long time. Education is FUBAR. :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Masaru »

Elite US troops ready to combat Pakistani nuclear hijacks
The US army is training a crack unit to seal off and snatch back Pakistani nuclear weapons in the event that militants, possibly from inside the country’s security apparatus, get their hands on a nuclear device or materials that could make one. The specialised unit would be charged with recovering the nuclear materials and securing them.
In a counterterrorism journal, published by America’s West Point military academy, he documented three incidents. The first was an attack in November 2007 at Sargodha in Punjab, where nuclearcapable F-16 jet aircraft are thought to be stationed. The following month a suicide bomber struck at Pakistan’s nuclear airbase at Kamra in Attock district. In August 2008 a group of suicide bombers blew up the gates to a weapons complex at the Wah cantonment in Punjab, believed to be one of Pakistan’s nuclear warhead assembly plants. The attack left 63 people dead.

A further attack followed at Kamra last October. Pakistan denies that the base still has a nuclear role, but Gregory believes it does. A six-man suicide team was arrested in Sargodha last August.

Fears that militants could penetrate a nuclear facility intensified after a brazen attack on army headquarters in Rawalpindi in October when 10 gunmen wearing army uniforms got inside and laid siege for 22 hours. Last month there was an attack on the naval command centre in Islamabad.
Bashir Mahmood, the former head of Pakistan’s plutonium reactor, formed the Islamic charity Ummah Tameer-e-Nau in March 2000 after resigning from the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission. He was arrested in Islamabad on October 23, 2001, with his associate Abdul Majeed for alleged links to Osama Bin Laden.

Concerns about hostility towards America within elements of the Pakistani armed forces first surfaced in 2007. At a meeting of military commanders staged at Kurram, on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, a Pakistani major drew his pistol and shot an American. The incident was hushed up as a gunfight.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by CRamS »

Kakkaji wrote:Swapan Dasgupta's take, in dailypioneer.com. Posting in full. My apologies if already posted:

On Pak, Govt must not blink
Swapan Dasgupta

I can’t speak for Pakistan but, presumably, the overall feeling across the Radcliffe Line wouldn’t be all that different. Sensible Pakistanis have had an overdose of jihad and wouldn’t mind exploring other facets of theology.
I respectfully disagree. Without massive support from ordinary TSPians, LeT would not be such a lethal force. LeT operates openly and collects huge amounts of money to recruit and train sooosaai bombers to target India. Finally, when it comes to India, all TSPians are united to see our destruction.

India could certainly do with more visits by Pakistani cricketers, musicians, artists, novelists and others who are genuinely committed to cross-border amity. There is even a case for unilaterally allowing more Pakistani traders to sell their fruits, carpets and shoes to access the Indian market without expecting reciprocity. If this is what is meant by ‘peace’, India should be prepared to go the extra mile.
Very bad idea. All India will get is LeT cadres in mufti. Plus, ordinary TSPians must feel the pain of their estrangenment from India. Only then will public opinion in TSP will turn against TSPA/ISI.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by SSridhar »

An article on Ardeshir Cowasjee by Nirupa Subramanian of The Hindu
. . . and a few poster-size copies of a rare photograph of Jinnah playing with his dog, which he says has been buried in the National archive, “never to be shown” because of the religious Muslim's aversion to the animal. He seems to have taken it upon himself to publicise it. “Keep one and distribute the rest,” he says.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Prem »

Retarded agencies dream hijacking plan

ASSFAQEDULLAH SHAWA
ISLAMABAD : Intelligence agencies on Saturday exposed a hijacking plan which what they said was being sponsored and supported by Indian and Afghan secret agencies. According to the Interior Ministry sources intelligence agencies informed the ministry that terrorists had planned to hijack Pakistan International Airlines plane.
After receiving the information, the ministry announced red alert on all the airports, sources said. They said that Airport Security Force and other law enforcement agencies have been asked to enhance vigilance to frustrate the evil designs of terrorists.
Sources revealed that terrorists had planned to hijack PIA airliner and take it to Kandahar. According to the intelligence report terrorists have links with separatist elements of Balochistan. No Interior Ministry official
http://www.thepakistaninewspaper.com/ne ... p?id=15712
Pakis are pulling all the Musharrfresque excused out of Musharraf. Something cooking ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Prem »

The mounting foreign debt
EDITORIAL (January 14 2010): The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has released some rather eye-catching statistics: each Pakistani, man, woman and child, would owe over Rs 34,000 on foreign debts incurred by the government by 2016. The Fund reports that our foreign debt will increase by about 13 percent, or 6.4 billion dollars to 57.1 billion dollars, by the end of the current fiscal year and would increase further by 7 billion dollars or 12.3 percent by 2010/2011.

This presupposes two conditions. First, that population will grow to 180 million, by 2016, which given its present rate of growth is highly likely; and, second, the country would remain heavily dependent on foreign assistance to make ends meet. In lieu of the failure of the pledges made by the Friends of Democratic Pakistan (FoDP), in April 2009 in Tokyo, to be disbursed one must add a corollary: in the event that Pakistan
http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=1 ... =&supDate=

All India has to do is to kill Paki export and they collapse economically. None of 3.5 Auliyaa gonna spend 40-50 Billion a year on them .
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by arun »

Chidanand Rajghatta on the relationship between the US and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

The Pakistani's are certainly most adept at fleecing the American's:
Uncle Sam's pet: Tail wags the dog

Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN, 17 January 2010, 12:19am IST

It is one of the most complex, vexing, perplexing relationships in the world. One is called a master, a patron, a benefactor. The other is regarded as a client, a vassal, a rentier state. Yet the client plays the master like the tail wagging the dog. Broke and crumbling, Pakistan still takes the US for a ride with astonishing regularity, milking it for billions and getting away with nuclear proliferation and terrorism sponsorship that has earned other countries censure, sanction, and even punitive wars. ..............................

TOI
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by RamaP »

^^ Until the end of the cold war, Pakistan was important to the USA because Pakistan was perceived as a counterbalance to Soviet Union's staunch ally in South Asia, i.e India.Also Pakistan served as a staging point for the Afghan Mujahideen during Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Post 9/11, Pakistan has been playing the "touch-me-and-jihadis-will-get-nukes" card to fool the Americans. Even during the takeover of Swat by Taliban in February this year, Zardari started talking about nuclear weapons falling into the hands of the Taliban.

Americans might be irritated with TSP's behavior, but there is little that they can do. Plus, Americans are petrified of putting boots on the ground in a country with more than 180 million people. Even the much publicized Balkanization scenario of the Pentagon is a paper tiger.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by CRamS »

arun wrote:Chidanand Rajghatta on the relationship between the US and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

The Pakistani's are certainly most adept at fleecing the American's:
Uncle Sam's pet: Tail wags the dog

Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN, 17 January 2010, 12:19am IST

It is one of the most complex, vexing, perplexing relationships in the world. One is called a master, a patron, a benefactor. The other is regarded as a client, a vassal, a rentier state. Yet the client plays the master like the tail wagging the dog. Broke and crumbling, Pakistan still takes the US for a ride with astonishing regularity, milking it for billions and getting away with nuclear proliferation and terrorism sponsorship that has earned other countries censure, sanction, and even punitive wars. ..............................

TOI
Interesting thoughts, but there is one Laksham Rekha that neither TSP nor US scross which CR is coy about. And thats is, India containment. So US will not do anything that will let India overwhelm TSP for its terrorist provocations and keep India off balance, while TSP will not be so brazen as unleash its LeT cadres on US. I don't believe the tail wagging the dog theory. Where US interests simply cannot be compromised, for e.g. drone attacks, US simply walks over TSP. Likewise, as many have pointed out, TSP has nuke capability in so far as they are targetted at SDREs only, othrewise it is pretty much nuke nude. Once again US taking care of its interests while keeping intact India containment policy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Chandragupta »

In today's Aman Ka Tamasha page in the ToI, they have a pic of the Gandhis (beta, beti & damaad) sitting in the concert that was held at Old Fort in Delhi. Entry was by invitation only. :roll:

They also have half a page devoted to finding solution to Kashmir 'problem', ranging from Musharraf's Joint Governance to a Plebiscite. I wonder what happened to the idea of Kashmir being an 'integral part' of the country. Feeding more crap to that 'undecided majority' that Kashmir is a disputed territory that India does not have a complete legal & moral right over. :x
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by shravan »

Smokers’ Corner: Preaching games
By Nadeem F. Paracha
Sunday, 17 Jan, 2010
yogi
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by yogi »

What if Pakistanis land at our border? - M J Akbar

I say, would be a hell of an opportunity.
Chandragupta
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Chandragupta »

yogi wrote:What if Pakistanis land at our border? - M J Akbar

I say, would be a hell of an opportunity.
Would the human heart prevail as children, women and the young sought the comfort of India, or would antipathy make us dismiss them with a sneer: "You made your bed in 1947, now sleep on its thorns."
You made your bed in 1947, now sleep on its thorns.

Why is MJ Akbar so concerned about Porkis anyways?
shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by shiv »

Chandragupta wrote: Why is MJ Akbar so concerned about Porkis anyways?
Why are you so concerned about MJ Akbar? "Why is BRF so concerned about Pakis?" is an often asked question. Maybe MJ Akbar has the same reasons. Only the name is wrong.
shravan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by shravan »

3 foreigners among 20 killed in NWA drone attack
Sunday, January 17, 2010
WANA: Twenty militants were killed and several others wounded on Sunday after a US drone fired two missiles at a militant compound in North Waziristian tribal region near Afghan border.

Three foreigners were also among the dead.

So far 20 dead bodies were pulled out of the rubble.

The death toll may rise, according to sources.
somnath
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by somnath »

^^^IMO MJ Akbar's article paints a very pertinent scenario as far as India is concerned..Pakistan is already in the throes of a mini civil war..How much time does it (and we) have before a full fledged conflagration happens? Will we see an army of refugees on our borders in that scenario? Most probably, especially the elite Punjabi sections, both rural and urban, that have the least in common with the JuD/TTP-types. JN Dixit's book on India and Pakistan throws enough light on how the Indian govt was ill prepared to handle the rush of refugees from Bangladesh - and this was otherwise a most adriotly run foreign policy-intel-military operation..If there is an influx, even a relative trickle, the possiibility of the fifth column coming in this time around is much higher than what it was in 1971..

So what should be our response in such a scenario? What should be the capacity building at various levels of the administration? How do we handle the "Punjabi" sentiment? The bengali sentiment was higely important in deciding the govt's course of action in 1971, and we see how TN public sentiment governs our policy responses in SL..

these are precisely the sort of questions that the National Security Council and the NSCS headed by the NSA is supposed to delve over..Unfortuneatly the NSA of late have been too busy in grabbing turf to bother with these issues!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by anupmisra »

Dus Percenti demands for a Marshall Plan
Zardari says the international community must adopt a Marshall Plan for Pakistan to win the war on terror.
I guess Dus Percenti doesn't know Germany's war time history well. In order to qualify for such a plan, pa'astan has to be first bombed to stone age, its army/airforce defanged, its people de-toxed (from their jahadi ideals), its leaders subjected to a Nuremberg, and the country divided into four zones. Then the money can flow.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by anupmisra »

What would India do if a million Pakistanis reached the Wagah border, demanding safety in India from the Taliban and its ancilliary ideological warriors?
Hey I have been shouting from the rooftops on this grave matter. It is likely to happen, in our generation. Ass-ma Jaagir already floated a trial balloon on this issue in New Delhi a few weeks ago. It was couched in different words but meant the same.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by animesharma »

IMO Akbar raises a very valid question. Criticism apart, his article this time is not pak-phobic but GOI-Plan phobic.
Destabilization to the extent is certain for pak and no matter what India do, there will sure be a huge inrush of refugee in India. They have already recorded biggest human relocation in modern time, which happen to be an internal destabilization. It has resulted in security nightmares for them( Its other thing that they don't care).

There are three aspects for Indian response
1)Human factor: Which is critical for India's future Plan for Pakistan.
2)Domestic Politics
3)Security factor

The civilian casualty is over 5,000 per year and over 3 million internal relocations, though it is limited to western front. Its in India's Interest to evaluate options before hand. proposing an International peace force (minus India) to create a secure refugee zone in its eastern front seems to be the best option before civil war reaches its threshold. Post threshold, the solutions for India will involve Military, and it will be the easiet option.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Muppalla »

AoA - Why are they after the maal as they anyway control them. Why do massa fake by releasing such reports as though the Nukes are in Pak's hands?

Elite US forces to counter Pakistani nuke hijacks: Report

As National Security Adviser MK Narayanan prepares to exit the Prime Minister’s Office and spend the coming years in the splendid isolation of a Raj Bhavan, it would be appropriate to review his tenure as Mr Manmohan Singh’s top aide. Given his unimpeachable loyalty to the first family of the Congress if not to the party (it would be facetious to suggest that one is concomitant to the other) it did not surprise anybody when he was inducted into the PMO after the UPA came to power. Nor was it surprising that his initial assignment was that of Internal Security Adviser. Having served as Director of Intelligence Bureau (when Rajiv Gandhi was Prime Minister) and a ‘National Security Adviser’ of sorts to VP Singh during his brief stint in office, he was a natural choice for the job. Known as a ‘tough-though-thinking cop’, apart from excelling at gathering ‘political intelligence’, his presence in the PMO, it was felt, would be a perfect counterfoil to the soft approach of the Government to issues linked to internal security as well as help shore up a regime dependent on unreliable allies by working the back channels with parties like the DMK.

There was a problem, though. JN Dixit, who was appointed National Security Adviser to the Prime Minister, saw his role as not being dissimilar to that played by his predecessor, Mr Brajesh Mishra, who handled both external and internal security-related issues loosely structured within the matrix of strategic affairs. The Director of IB, the Secretary heading Research & Analysis Wing, those handling Military Intelligence, the Joint Intelligence Committee, the Scientific Adviser, the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission (who is also Secretary of the Department of Atomic Energy), the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary would directly brief Mr Mishra who, in turn, would brief Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Mr LK Advani wasn’t too happy with the arrangement and was definitely displeased about the Home Secretary hopping across from North Block to South Block to keep Mr Mishra posted, but there was little that he (or for that matter the Raksha Mantri and the Videsh Mantri) could do about it. Mr Mishra was the foreign policy czar (he was appointed special representative for crucial talks with several countries, including Pakistan, China, Russia and France and had over-riding authority), the initiator of strategic dialogue with the US, and the chief operational intelligence coordinator. All this apart from his responsibilities as Principal Secretary, which involved inter-Ministry coordination and routine administrative duties as chief of the PMO staff. That Mr Vajpayee never had any reason to complain is an abiding tribute to Mr Mishra’s amazing abilities.

Mr Singh (or was it someone else?) decided not to vest any one person with so much responsibility. Mr TKA Nair was appointed Principal Secretary, a job which the veteran bureaucrat with an impeccable record still holds. But it remains unclear whether an effort was made to delineate the task of the National Security Adviser from that of the Internal Security Adviser. What is known is that Dixit, held in awe by the Foreign Office and feared by India’s neighbourhood, was never too sure about his remit. Dixit may have been a grand strategist, but he was a poor tactician. On the other hand, Mr Narayanan, confident of his political backing, tactically exploited the situation to his advantage, appropriating for himself virtually every segment of the national security matrix and more. With Mr Shivraj Patil as Minister for Home Affairs, he met with no resistance: All pink note-sheets would land on his desk before they were read by anybody else.

The brewing conflict between Dixit and Mr Narayanan was resolved in the most unexpected and tragic manner. Dixit, popularly known as Mani, died on January 3, 2005, barely seven months after the UPA came to power. Mr Singh, hesitant to replicate his experiment, promptly anointed Mr Narayanan National Security Adviser and since then he has held the post, minding both external and internal security issues and strategic affairs. In between deciding who gets to head IB and R&AW (usually favourites from the Kerala cadre of the IPS), he also ran political errands, for instance coercing Panthers Party chief Bhim Singh to vote for the Congress-led Government and convincing DMK supremo M Karunanidhi not to push the envelope too far on India refusing to come to the LTTE’s rescue.

Meanwhile, the national security situation deteriorated rapidly with terrorists striking with impunity across the country, extracting a terrible toll of human lives and shaking confidence in the Government’s ability to protect the country’s citizens from jihadi marauders. The Maoist menace at home and the mess in Nepal bear further testimony to his sterling abilities. Mr Narayanan was clearly out of his depth in the vastly changed security scenario, though it is claimed he played a crucial role in finalising the India-US civilian nuclear cooperation agreement which, lest we forget, is yet to become ‘operational’.

Despite all this and a lot more, it would have been an uninterrupted run for Mr Narayanan had nemesis not struck by way of the November 26, 2008 fidayeen attacks on multiple targets in Mumbai and the resultant outrage followed by the sacking of Mr Patil. Both the National Security Adviser and the Home Minister should have been unceremoniously dumped after the July 11, 2006 Mumbai commuter train bombings in which more people were killed than in the carnage two years later. But then, 26/11 was telecast live while 11/7 wasn’t; more than 200 Indian commuters died in the first attack and six Americans were among the 166 who perished in the second massacre. So, Mr Patil made an ignominious exit, Mr P Chidambaram took charge as Home Minister and Mr Narayanan found his remit severely curtailed. Over the past year, national security has been the preserve of the Ministry of Home Affairs and Mr Chidambaram has done a commendable job.

We are now told that the Government proposes to have two separate Security Advisers — one for homeland security and the other for external security. That’s an excellent proposal and merits immediate implementation. If that happens — and it’s a very big ‘if’ — the defunct National Security Council (when was the last time it met to discuss strategic security, political, economic and energy concerns?), the Strategic Policy Group (comprising babus not known for coming up with scintillating ideas) and the Joint Intelligence Committee should be immediately disbanded. Structures of the past cannot meet challenges of the future. We need a brand new system with the right people for whom India matters more than America, not loyal bureaucrats who will blindly do the Prime Minister’s bidding.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Jarita »

Chandragupta wrote:
yogi wrote:What if Pakistanis land at our border? - M J Akbar

I say, would be a hell of an opportunity.
Would the human heart prevail as children, women and the young sought the comfort of India, or would antipathy make us dismiss them with a sneer: "You made your bed in 1947, now sleep on its thorns."
You made your bed in 1947, now sleep on its thorns.

Why is MJ Akbar so concerned about Porkis anyways?


Maybe that is why he is advocating H Pradesh - Home within a home

Also fail to understand why India must compromise on anything given that pakiland is going down the toilet bowl. This whole thing is so incongruous that it seems that something is afoot that we are not able to read.

It has to be orchestrated by unkil. A breakdown of Pakilan will give India significant power. That needs to be nipped in the bud with the nonsense on Kashmir.
Or there is another scenario we are not getting a read on. Otherwise, India is in a position of strength at this time, why do we have to compromise on anything
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Kanson »

What would India do if a million Pakistanis reached the Wagah border, demanding safety in India from the Taliban and its ancilliary ideological warriors?
Question to be asked by Indians is what would Pakistanis do to get the help of Indians in keeping the Taliban away ?

Lets get real; as long as Pak army functions it wont let any mass scale migration of Pakistainis to India. Why so ? Becoz, it will give legitimate reason for India to intervene. If Pak establishment doesnt want Indian influence either in Afghanistan or Balochistan, why would they create an opportunity for Indians to intervene in Punjab area(Wagah border)? Already they have the nightmare of 1971. So it wont happen. The reverse question to be asked is what would Pakistanis do to help themselves to keep the taliban away. And in that which way India could help them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by RamaY »

What if Pakistanis land at our border? - M J Akbar

TSPA could use this strategy to overwhelm and confuse India, as and when it cannot sneak terrorists across border. What will GOI do in such a scenario?

One solution I propose is that IA should comeup with a new doctrine "Operation Aman Ki Asha". The operation will have the following structure -

Trigger point - Accummulation of more than 1000 refugees at international border

Implementation plan - For every 1000 refugees stranded at Indo-Pak internation/cease-fire border, IA will occupy 4Sq. KM of Pakistanin land and establish security in that area. These refugee camps will remain in Paki-soil, till the international community intervenes OR Pakistan as the current entity is completely destroyed.

Preparation Plan -

Policy:
1. GOI enteres into a discussion with US/EU group to ensure that they pick up the financial costs of such an event, including the military expenses incurred by IA.

2. GOI passes a bill in the parliament to this extent

3. Military - IA procures all necessary armaments and ammunition to sustain a wall of fire for extended periods (6-12 months) 30-50 KM in to Pakistan territory.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by Altair »

RamaY wrote:What if Pakistanis land at our border? - M J Akbar

TSPA could use this strategy to overwhelm and confuse India, as and when it cannot sneak terrorists across border. What will GOI do in such a scenario?
I have been thinking what would GOI do if a refugee problem comes. A repeat of 1971. Pakistan cannot sustain as a nation anymore. Its a fact. Has it ever been a nation state since its inception is debatable at another time and thread. The question still remain unanswered. India is still with no plan of a refugee crisis from west. (I wonder how MJ Akbar got this thought of refugee crisis !! reading BRF perhaps!!)

RamaY,Although your thoughts are innovative, Congress Govt and Maino at helm would try to derive political capital out of the situation. They would try to become "Saints" and "Legends". Everybody knows how the Bangladeshi "refugees" in the last few years have become "Ration card holders". Its a different issue that they do menial jobs. Although I love to have a TFTA paki clean my toilet everyday.
So,We are again back where we started. We have no strong political will to handle the refugee crisis. PeaceOps like Aman ki Asha would make things worse. Imagine our situation when these WKK types would let these refugees into our country when they sign them in near border promising to take care of them. These WKK types and Aman ki Tamasha must be nipped in bud.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Post by A_Gupta »

somnath wrote:So what should be our response in such a scenario? What should be the capacity building at various levels of the administration?
If a million Pakistanis show up at Wagah fleeing the Taliban, India should tell them to march on Islamabad.
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