Bharat Rakshak

This kind of thing is common place in African Republics and dictatorships in banana republics. The foot soldier is expected to go barefoot and fight tooth and nails to kill the enemy but the man who signs the checks always travels first class. Fake stature!

I doubt if the paper pushers in New Delhi actually spent a month with a BSF unit at the border with rockets exploding around him or with the RR freezing in the J6K snow would be so eager to sign the checks that allow such obscene purchases.

Lets impose a rule that to obtain a govt job or to be elected (from ward member to president) one should have at least 1 year of military experience. Probably, it will get into table some discipline and patriotism.

X Posted.

Xavier Marchal MD of DCNS India quoted in the Defexpo 2010 supplement carried with the Feb 16th edition of Financial Express on the Scorpene project:

"The whole pressure hull of the first submarine is now completed and all the structures are very well advanced. Construction of the second submarine started in 2008 is progressing quickly along with construction of the third and fourth submarine that already started.”

No link is available

Product PDF

http://products.saabgroup.com/PDBWebNew ... es&Id=8130

India in talks to acquire Javelin missiles from the US...





http://www.livemint.com/2010/02/1610162 ... re-in.html

It is high time that IA beefed up the anti-armor capability of its Infantry Units...our freinds across the border have distributed ATGM (and MANPADS) like seeds across the board.....

Khukri, please post a description on what the article is about instead of just posting a link. You can use the [ url ] tags to do it. You can use the url tags like this: [ url=<your url here. ] Something descriptive here[ /url ] .Remove the spaces around the brackets containing url as I have added it for illustrative purpose only.

The biggest problem with the Javelin is the cost! Its nearly $200,000 per missile! Its a great way to waste a couple of billion dollars but its not a great way to improve the Infantry's ATGMs capacity. Russian systems may be crude but they are MUCH cheaper and almost just as efficient at killing tanks. The Indian Army should be looking at acquiring cheaper ATGMs and producing them domestically under license rather than contemplating American systems.

American soldiers waste the Javelins by using them like RPGs to blow up small structure and kill snipers. The Indian soldier may also find himself a slave to the convenience of the Javelin and cost the Indian treasury a pretty sum.

^^ What's wrong with using Nag?? Afterall they do the same thing Javelins do, albeit (nag needs a carrier Namica?? and is NOT man portable) the only advantage that Javelins offer is that they are man portable, proven design, and lighter weight..
Nag is heavier in terms of weight, has a longer range, cheaper?? but NOT man portable!!!!

I believe they use TOW for that purpose which is much cheaper.

Obviously, the VVIP's security is more important than the common man or am admi (a resounding but apparently a hollow cry) as also the Nation's security since no other defence deal was announced by the Raksha Mantri and DEFEXPO, not even a word about the mid air refuellers for the IAF!


Al is well!

It may not always be that BAD...Many a time, these "VIP purchases" are used to mask other things.. The EMbraer legacy jets for example..It is widely believed that quite a few of these jets have nothing to do with VIP transport, and a lot to do wtih ELINT..

Noted.

Translated from http://www.mathrubhumi.com/story.php?id=83854



Unmanned submarine undergoes trial at Idukki dam

Posted on : 17 Feb
Bangalore: The indigenously developed unmanned submarine has been tested successfully. The AUV (Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) -150 brought from Durgapur, West Bengal under utmost secrecy underwent the trials at the Idukki reservoir.
The vehicle has been developed by Central Mechanical Engineering Research Institute (CMERI), based at Durgapur in collaboration with DRDO. It can collect information under water remotely without any crew or captain much like a remotely controlled pilotless aircraft. Built with the intent of coastal security, AUV 150 will also be used to study aquatic life and minerals and to map oceans, said Dr. S.N. Som, the head of Robotics and Automation, CMERI. IIT Gorakhpur is also collaborating in the project.
Brought in a container over land from Durgapur upto Kulamavu reservoir at Idukki , the vehicle was later taken to the middle of the reservoir on a boat. Though CMERI officials declined to comment on the exact date of the tests, they indicated that the trials were conducted in January. The current trials were that of runs in fresh water. Since Kulamavu has a centre associated with Navy and also the reservoir being very deep, the choice fell on Idukki. The vehicle is yet to undergo sea trials.
With a length of 4.8 metres and weighing 490 kgs, AUV 150 is controlled remotely from land using wireless technology. It runs on battery. Dr. Som added that it would render invaluable service to Coast Guard and Navy. The US, Russia, Germany, Japan, Australia, South Korea are the other nations having such submarines.

Everyones scrambling for a piece of Indian defense pie!

Raytheon joins hands with L&T..

http://www.brahmand.com/news/LTRaytheon ... /3/13.html

& add Tata-IAI to the never ending list of tie-ups as well..

http://www.8ak.in/8ak_india_defence_new ... ogies.html

Would it not be more efficient to use Air to ground missiles by air cover instead of $200K/ea missiles?

Interesting developement... FM wants Defence ministry to have more autonomy to speed up procurement..



http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ls/387157/

I think it would be a great move..

X Post.

Alcock Ashdown has launched two catamaran hulled hydrographic survey vessels for the Indian Navy. These 2 catamarans will be commissioned as INS Makar and INS Meen:

Gujarat builds 1st survey catamarans for Indian navy

X Post.

Information culled from an Indian Navy hand-out. for Navy Day 2009. That would make the handout to date around Dec. 2009.

Interestingly the Arihant is not shown under the “Ships on order in India” though the Scorpene submarines are. Arihant is mentioned elsewhere in the handout though.

The nuclear submarine supposedly heading our way from Russia is not mentioned either.



The handout which has other useful bits of information like current force levels (incl. aviation assets), inductions in 2010 and aviation acquisition plans, is available here:

SPS Naval Forces

X Posted.



So the original price and delivery schedule of the Gorshkov / Vikramaditya as agreed in the Januray 20th, 2004 contract has slipped from USD 974 Million to USD 2340 Million and from August 2008 to some time in 2013.

The original price and deliver schedule is provided here:

COST AND DELIVERY SCHEDULE OF ADMIRAL GORSHKOV

Big Bucks, Many Irritants
Business Standard

We're having a circular argument here.If the GOI takes fast track decisions only in case of US puchase, what is the 'suspicious' in this? I've listed the weapon system to be brought by India from US and asked for alternate purchase options. Which are none, barring the debate on C-17.



I think the timelines for the Gorshkov deal are way off the mark above. And I'm not questioning the efficacy or other wise of the MiG-29K aircraft. As you said, this was the only options available with Gorky and we went for it. And additional numbers were also signed for expanded requirement. Now that the IN has wider options, it has issued RFP for new-gen carrier borne aircraft. Will this deal be signed in the same timeframe as MiG-29K? Not unless IN says that plane X is the best options and we do not see the need for comparative trials. Take another example; if the requirement for MMRCA was felt in situation as obtained in late 80's and 90's, do you think there would have been an RFP? Or we would have settled for something like Mirage 2000-5?

So, what does this tell us? If an optimum solution (taking all factors into account) is available wth only single vendor, the deals happen that much quickly.



What is suspicious about the deal in the above argument? The future behaviour of USA might well be suspect but where is the conspiracy in awarding the deal to US Companies? The way above argument is made, it seems to imply that GOI is circumveting some rules and regulation and advancing favors to the US firms in purchase of the equipment.



While i'm no expert on things related to above argument, please do enlighten me on what exactly will be the "dumb" form of F/A-18 SH radar as compared to the ones in USN Service and how does the same compare with other competitors in service.



And I've already covered the point of APU and weight penalty it places on the Pegasus ULH. So the trade-off, mobility of gun as underslung load versus APU, is best left to IA to decide. And while one has still develop means to counter the Counter Battery Fire (CBF) - we did that in Kargil, one cannot do anything about the excess weight of the gun.

As for the attack helo RFP, the reason Bell and Boeing did not participate was the initial insistence that helos be bought directly through Company while the same were availale through FMS Route. Which MOD accepted and the fresh RFP got issued. Also, Bell withdrew as the AH-1Z was in trials with US Marine Corps and not available for trials.

And I would want to trial AH-64 and AH-1Z in case I intend to purchase a good attack-helo.

As fo the LUH Tender, it is our own apples which were rotten. Something to do with EADS entering the competition with civilian version of their contender and IA certifying the same. A small matter cropped up later which showed that the person in IA evaluating the EADS Chopper and deal was the brother of EADS Rep. in India.

Every arms manufacturer will try his best to influence deals; it is just that some are more successful.



You're getting into serious speculation territory unless you can back up above argument with some hard numbers. Let the IAF be the decision maker with respect to their requirement.

Does IAF decide really? Shouldn't the additional Mirage 2000s be already a part of the fleet then? Say about 5 years back?

Also barring the reasons that the MoD has trotted out to go out of its way to include US equipment; the fact remains -- MoD has been exceptionally lenient towards US in cases even when it was clear that US equipment was by no means the only option (say like Gorky et al) -- this at the risk of massively delaying purchases.

On the other hand all Russian exceptions, were the fastest route available, but in case of US helos for example the ostensible reason given (that there exists some relationship between two individuals in IA and EADS ) has only delayed the procurement further.

At least with C 17, it may be a overpriced ill suited piece of gold covered shindig for us, it is coming soon, and that is all I care about frankly (lot of money is anyway wasted, whats some more) but in case of Helo's criminal delay in acquisition has been made just to include US convenience; and no it is not clear at all that the decision is that of the forces, in fact it is clear that the decision is forced on the forces.

That was not the reason given. The reason was as rohit said, that EADS brought the civilian version of their helicopter for trials which violated the RFP. The version wich is going to be acquired has to be the version brought for the trials. The link between the individuals was found later on.

When we are black listing every damn company when found of guilty, why LM is still in the race after finding that it got the confidential file of MOD? Suspicious or is it not?



Options were available for M777 and P8I as well... In case of P 8I, it was navy to decide it was better than competitors... But in M 777, in spite of request by Cheif of army staff expressing his concern over black listing ST and other companies, we did not think it necessary to re consider the case.


Which hardly is the case.. So we should continue all this Rfp, negotiation and all drama till eternity? We are questioning our own selection process.... just 2 days back VVIP helicopter deal was cleared, estimated cost is 65 mn USD.... and we back of crucial requirement of refulers saying cost??

Same as first with additional example of bell and LUH competition

That depends upon the whims and fancies of the US Congress and Mr President...tomorrow after another mumbai blasts if we go active on western front, we might even not get it... And if you claim no difference, i wander what is export version....

Compared to others no body have it right now but when available it will be the best of what they have and most importantly free of any bugs/ trojans etc....


Didn't bell knew it will be in trials with USMC and it will not be able to participate, than what the was point in delaying the rfp?

Look it is not the requirement, i am questioning. I am concerned with price factor... Refuelers are rejected for price, but we are ready to buy costly transporters without even comparing the options as your rightly said when available...

Going by same, MMRCA is already decided - either F 16 or F 18? Gripen NG has not come for trials, Similarly, Mig 35 was not present... Rafale and tiffy does not have working AESA

So why waste time when we are set on a road map to loose numerical superiority against even PAF (thanks to fishbeds that has arrested the situation inspite of being cursed like anything).. Just start negotiation and finalize one of them

I don't know if the same condition is included in the MRCA RFP. If it is then yes, whichever contender does not adhere to it may be disqualified.

Man, do people have anything good to say about our military?!

To quote General S.R.Chowdhary (not verbatim) from his book, "Officialy at Peace" on the state of Indian Army: "Indian Army in 1997 was not in position to repeat 1971". This, oufcourse, came after the disastorous decade of late 80's-90's.....A good barometer of where we stand is to analyze the changes (qualitative and quantitative) in the Indian Armed Forces setup.....A decade imo is ver short a period to bring about drastic changes in an organization as big as the Indian Army. The lackadaisical attitude of MOD and babucracy does not help the matter at all......Just as a minder, Army Plan 2000, envisaged by General Sundarji, planned for 4 Armored+7 Mechanized+4 RAPID+19 Infantry Divisions...Where are we wrt Mechanization?

General Sundarji was an outspoken person, with (VERY) little time for bureaucrats, and pandering to their egos. Once, when Deshmukh, the Cabinet Secretary starting questioning him in a cabinet meeting, he point blank told him "Civil Servants need not concern themselves with these matters. This is a matter for cabinet deliberation".

As such, many of his plans were scuttled by bureaucrats out to make him look bad. Especially after Brass Tacks.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=12547

Based on this article, Russia's exports are more to China than to us (35% as opposed to 24%).

On BR, we have seen a hue and cry about the French, German, US etc supplying to both warring sides (w.r.t TSP). With our huge defence deals with Russia, why arent similar concerns raised? Is there something I am missing or since we are dealing with them for 50 years and so is China we just say 'Thats the way it is'?