Indian Agriculture and Agro-based Industry

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 19 Feb 2010 07:37

Rs.2,500 per tonne of sugarcane sought
http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/14/stories ... 440100.htm

Sugar’s Bitter Policies
http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article1899.html

Jayalalitha writes to Dr Singh, criticises Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Karunanidhi
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/02/17/jaya ... chief.html

DMK govt should give the price of Sugercase as it is given in Maharastra and other states. How can a farmer survive without having the investment that he made? By giving other freebees such as TV and other things, one cannot argue that the price of the Sugercane can be maintained at this low level of 1600 to 1700 Rs. One cannot also argue that the private sugercane industries cannot offer that price. The production cost itself is not given even after the announcement of the central government subsidiaries for such raw material.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Feb 2010 09:58

Green Revolution in India Wilts as Subsidies Backfire

The country now produces less rice per hectare than its far poorer neighbors: Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 12 Mar 2010 22:52

Narendra Modi's farm miracle

Headline may be over the top, but the article has detail about systemic changes in Gujarat agriculture.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Mar 2010 01:51

Pranay wrote:It is amazing to see the low level of discussion in the Indian media re: GM foods in general and BT Brinjal in particular, my exposure being limited to televised debates on a couple of Indian news channels.

Indian Media = owned by the same corporate interest and MNCs. Even if not owned they can reduce negative news and increase positive news.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 17 Mar 2010 06:15

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... GntEw72ik=

India up for sale to MNCs

The recent historic moratorium on Bt brinjal by Jairam Ramesh, minister of environment and forests, has created a network of citizens’ organisations around the country that have risen spontaneously from the ground, and have prevented the country’s agriculture becoming devoid of its diversity and moving in the direction of control by multinational corporations (MNCs). These corporations have strong links with the government of the United States of America US, and their sole objectives are (a) to make as much money as possible by any means, and (b) to eventually have total control over Indian agriculture, using every ruse known to the world of conmen. Unlike the government of India, they are fully aware that whosoever controls seed and agrochemical business in India, controls its agriculture. And whosoever controls our agriculture, controls India and its food security, for 62 per cent Indians derive their total sustenance from agriculture and, in our country, food security, food sovereignty, agriculture security, farmers security, and security of the rural sector, are synonymous and important components of national security and autonomy. If Bt brinjal had been approved, India would have, in course of time, ceased to be, de facto, an independent country and we, its citizens, would have had to start fighting the third war of independence which we would have eventually won, for truth always wins in the long run.

It is unfortunate that our government — our politicians and bureaucrats (exception granted) — and the rich and the powerful in the country, seem to be siding with the MNCs (read US), in their attempt to acquire control over our agriculture. This is reminiscent of India being ruled by the British through a class of Indians. Only the structure, colour and strategy of this class seem to have changed, while Britain has been replaced by the US plus the MNCs. Let us look at the evidence:

* We signed the India-US Knowledge Initiative in Agriculture during the first UPA government. Following this — and, perhaps, in preparation of this — our research and extension work in agriculture seems to have totally discounted our strengths and needs. Let me give some examples: The Indian Council of Agriculture Research (ICAR) has developed integrated pest management (IPM) and biopesticides for some 85 crops, including cotton and brinjal. Why have we not used these technologies instead of peddling Monsanto’s Bt crops?

Organic agriculture has been India’s forte. It brings better price for the produce. Andhra Pradesh already has two million acres under organic agriculture and has plans to take this area to 10 million in the next two or three years. Why are our Krishi Vigyan Kendras (I believe there is one in each district) not encouraging organic agriculture? Why does not ICAR have an institute devoted to organic agriculture?

Given today’s knowledge of molecular biology, why are our agriculture research scientists not developing varieties which would have the advantages of hybrids? The farmers can then have their own seeds and would not have to depend on seed companies. At a meeting that the director general of ICAR and I had co-chaired when I was the vice-chairman of the National Knowledge Commission, nine energy saving steps for agriculture were identified. Why have they not been taken?

The ICAR has published in several volumes, details of over 4000 traditional agriculture practices, many of which have been validated and cross-validated. We have many more documented by the National Innovation Foundation. Why are we not using the validated ones and taking steps to examine the remaining? Why are we not using our horticulture potential? For example, all the technology exists in the State Forest Research Laboratory of Arunachal Pradesh to grow over 600 orchids through tissue culture. These orchids can capture the world orchid market, replacing Thailand (for our orchids are far more beautiful and the world is tired of Thai orchids) and bring to Arunachal Pradesh a revenue of over Rs 10,000 crore a year. Why are we not pursuing the possibility?

Why is our department of agriculture not using the outstanding capabilities that our National Remote Sensing Agency has to, for example, identify diseased plants in a field so that one can prevent the spread of the disease?

* Ten of our leading CEOs signed the Indo-US CEO agreement (available on Planning Commission’s website) in which the Indian CEOs (led by Ratan Tata) agreed to put the lid on the Bhopal Gas Tragedy, promised not to give any trouble to Coca Cola and Pepsi irrespective of the quality and quantity of their misdeeds, and open our retail market to the US. There is already a US demand that India cuts down its subsidies to agriculture which are a pittance in comparison to what the US provides to its agriculturists.

* We recently signed secretly, an MoU on ‘Agriculture Cooperation and Food Security’ with the US, even though all the inputs we require — scientific, technological, managerial or social — to improve our agriculture to meet national demands (present or future) are available within the country. The MoU (The Hindu, February 24, 2010), for all practical purposes, appears to have handed over our food security and sovereignty, farmers security, agriculture security and security of the rural sector comprising 70 per cent of our population, to the US.

* The government has been supporting introduction of GM food and other crops in the country, which will eventually give control of our agriculture to US-based MNCs. Jairam Ramesh, taking into account overwhelming public opinion and unbiased scientific opinion has, rightly and courageously, in a statesman-like manner, put an indefinite moratorium on the release of Bt brinjal; he has gone on record to say that he has only two supporters in the government and the ruling party: the prime minister and Sonia Gandhi.

* Our surrender to the US seems to be total. If we buy nuclear reactors from the US (which we would be obliged to buy), we will pay most of the compensation in case of a nuclear accident, not the vendor of the reactor. And on the March 6, V K Saraswat, scientific adviser to our defence minister, said that the US is still denying us technology (Deccan Chronicle, March 7, 2010).

On November 10, 1698, Charles Eyre bought three fishing villages — Sutanuti, Govindpore and Dihi-Koikata — from a Bengali landlord for Rs1,300, and laid the foundation of today’s Kolkata. We are now trying to sell our entire country for a pittance (if for anything at all) to MNCs and the US. Those who are involved in this effort must understand that the citizens of this country are well-equipped to fight the third war of independence if that happens.

About the author:

Pushpa M Bhargava is the former vice chairman of the National Knowledge Commission

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 17 Mar 2010 23:04

Would anyone have any info to share ( about their direct experience which would be ideal) on short term apprenticeship in organic farming? i.e. about the institutions, farmers etc in India/abroad who are willing to share their experience and willing to teach hands on. Thanks

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 21 Mar 2010 06:38

Forbes India: Gujarat shows way to green revolution

Surprisingly positive article about Gujarat on IBN.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Mar 2010 21:58

Cross posting from economy thread.

pandyan wrote:Theo Saar,

>> Agriculture can never do this for you.
This I agree....farming takes a lot of work, pricing is uncertain, weather is uncertain, output is uncertain and the risks are extremely high. It is like an airline business....very little control.

The sweet spot of 20-25 acres/farmer is an interesting insight. Could you pls. share a bit more on this as you have the first hand experience?

In your opinion, how much can a farmer expect to make with 20-25 acres of land per year :
1. what is the approximate breakdown of the cost structure:
a. labor
b. seeds
c. fertilizer
d. chemicals for pest/weed control
e. farm equipment rental
f. fuel + power
2. what is the subsidy provided by the Indian/TN government? is there a systematic subsidy program or more ad-hoc in nature?
3. how much is the farm product produced per acre worth.
4. what plants are typically grown..

I have collected/read similar data on the US side for Corn, Wheat and Soybean (would be happy to dig it up and put it here if you like); would like to hear your thoughts on the typical expense structure in an Indian farm.

On the US side of the things, while the farmers do have scale to their advantage, they are still vulnerable to:
1. fuel prices (because of heavy mechanization)
2. fertilizers (and this in-turn depends on fuel prices)
3. chemical pesticides (typically, large farms follow monoculture...planting a single variety over 100s of acres making them extremely fragile against pests and the resulting need to apply large amount of pesticide/fungicide etc)
4. farm labors (cheap supply of temporary farm labor is a big question right now with the everify type of program)

My understanding is even in the US, the farmers are forced to mortgage/remortgage their land to survive with liberal amount of subsidies/tax benefits thrown in to make farming viable. The US farms have potential to make huge profits as well as huge losses.

I have agonized over this for many years as I try to beat my farm into profitability.

The real advantage of 20-25 acres is the ability to diversify into a small farm holding.

Right now my 17 acres is split roughly equally into paddy + coconut farm with pineapple inter crop. With a few more acres I could also do a pepper plantation. This would allow me a greater chance of profitability. Last year the Pineapple & Coconut prices dropped to just above input cost while paddy was profitable. Usually it has been the other way around. You need to have 3 separate crops of ~10 acres for efficiency.

Anyway moving on...

The cost of planting my rice crop worked out to about 2.5 lakhs for my 8 acres for two crops, I had do broadcast pesticide spraying twice this year. Very expensive. Pesticide is Rs 4000 a liter. A couple of extra pests can wipe out your profit.

Rice price at the local mill is typically Rs 1400 per quintal but I got Rs 1650 this year. I got about 350 Quintals from my two crops last year (dry monsoon helped), of which 280 quintals went to the miller. The miller docked me 20 quintals for moisture content! So I got paid for 260 Quintals. So a profit of about 1.5 lakhs after transport costs, paying the irrigation costs, etc. It was a good year.

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 24 Mar 2010 23:18

Theo and others

I have not done extensive research on this but my reading is that the productivity of land is attributable to the amount of water available. For example 1 kg of dry biomass (cellulose) requires 50-100 Kg of water (my estimate). And 1 kg of carbohydrate like (rice) etc requires 1000-5000 Kg water (depending on your crop). Now it makes eminent sense to not chase after water intensive crops if water is short.

However if there is water

Did you ever consider the following... raise some fodder tree preferably a C4 plant (bamboo for eg it is fast growing) if you are in a hot climate and use the Cellulose to convert to meat (eg raise goats/sheep/lamb/beef). Now that is eminently better since instead of rice and primary produce you get meat which works out to the same in water input but is far more profitable.

Most people forget about the massive amounts of cellulose that a healthy forest is able to fix and get swayed by the amount of edible carbohydrate that plants like rice/wheat etc produce. The cellulose is ultimately is burned off (biologically or by fires etc) without adequate use. If all that cellulose can made edible to human consumption then there is an advantage.

Now there are 2 different kinds of animals that can convert Cellulose to Protein efficiently 1) the Ruminants such as Cows and Bulls (specially Indian Bovine stock) etc and 2) Caterpillars and other insects like locusts/caterpillars/snails (all very good sources of protein btw)

I wonder if we can harness the vast Cellulosic potential for improving food security. I have some ideas based on some research I have seen that can potentially transform food production. If we can design/raise a forest to fix 10 times (easily possible I feel) the amount of cellulose than a conventional paddy field then we can convert that cellulose to protein (at 10% efficiency) to get the same calorific output of human consumable protein as we get from a paddy crop as human consumable carbohydrate, with attendant improvements in forest cover, wildlife, water security, better weather etc.

Any chance you might want to take a swipe at using this in your farms? Also if you are looking for the crop with the largest KCal/Rupee input then you may want to consider tapioca or potatoes (tubers are apparently more efficient than rice in that value).

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 25 Mar 2010 01:52

Vriksh wrote:Theo and others

I have not done extensive research on this but my reading is that the productivity of land is attributable to the amount of water available. For example 1 kg of dry biomass (cellulose) requires 50-100 Kg of water (my estimate). And 1 kg of carbohydrate like (rice) etc requires 1000-5000 Kg water (depending on your crop). Now it makes eminent sense to not chase after water intensive crops if water is short.

However if there is water

Did you ever consider the following... raise some fodder tree preferably a C4 plant (bamboo for eg it is fast growing) if you are in a hot climate and use the Cellulose to convert to meat (eg raise goats/sheep/lamb/beef). Now that is eminently better since instead of rice and primary produce you get meat which works out to the same in water input but is far more profitable.

Most people forget about the massive amounts of cellulose that a healthy forest is able to fix and get swayed by the amount of edible carbohydrate that plants like rice/wheat etc produce. The cellulose is ultimately is burned off (biologically or by fires etc) without adequate use. If all that cellulose can made edible to human consumption then there is an advantage.

Now there are 2 different kinds of animals that can convert Cellulose to Protein efficiently 1) the Ruminants such as Cows and Bulls (specially Indian Bovine stock) etc and 2) Caterpillars and other insects like locusts/caterpillars/snails (all very good sources of protein btw)

I wonder if we can harness the vast Cellulosic potential for improving food security. I have some ideas based on some research I have seen that can potentially transform food production. If we can design/raise a forest to fix 10 times (easily possible I feel) the amount of cellulose than a conventional paddy field then we can convert that cellulose to protein (at 10% efficiency) to get the same calorific output of human consumable protein as we get from a paddy crop as human consumable carbohydrate, with attendant improvements in forest cover, wildlife, water security, better weather etc.

Any chance you might want to take a swipe at using this in your farms? Also if you are looking for the crop with the largest KCal/Rupee input then you may want to consider tapioca or potatoes (tubers are apparently more efficient than rice in that value).

Could you please elaborate on your theory?

The following points need to be kept in mind-

1) Though bamboo leaves are used in Nepal and Vietnam as fodder, though the culms/stems (which I believe is the greatest source of cellulose vis a vis the leaves) have to exploded with steam before it can be fed to cattle http://www.inbar.int/Board.asp?Boardid=173 Here, then generation of steam itself would prove to be energy and water intensive.

If it is just promoting the case of bamboo leaves (and not the stem/culm) what benefits would it have over conventional hay from rice, wheat etc (sources of cellulose) which is anyway an existing by-product?

2) Whether you are referring to a) an existing natural forest or b) a man-made “forest” ? (if the former, the natural eco-systems as they exist in a natural forest got evolved over millions of years are very different and human intervention essentially kills those fragile systems. If the latter, creating a ‘plantation’ would be the ideal term and finding land for it would be another issue. If it is using existing land for bamboo plantation, would it have considerable water/energy saving as compared to hay (mentioned in pt 1)

3)Earlier in this thread a case has been made against animal proteins and also as to how modern scientific journals find animal proteins one of the primary causes for progressive degenerative diseases in human beings and need not be considered an essential requirement for human nutrition needs.

4) In fact, legumes are an excellent source of proteins for humans. Especially in the Indian context, legumes are widely used throughout the country all through the year. To quote from
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u6w251j4n56n784j/ ->”The cheap and easily available source of proteins are legumes which compare very well in the nutritive values with other sources of proteins, the cereals and animal proteins.”

Considering 3) and 4) above, what is the need for this circuitous route of cellulose->animal protein->human consumption when it could be legumes->human consumption straightaway. Removing an unnecessary intermediary link in the chain would itself save considerable water and energy. More importantly, it would augur good health to the population (by not consuming animal protein).

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 25 Mar 2010 05:15

True that Culms are the most cellulose rich and need to see if there is a efficient way to convert wood chips/culms to fodder. Have not looked into it yet. However it is obvious that HYV rice and wheat are stunted/short as compared to traditional rice varieties which in turn implies that we are starving animals in India to feed humans every since the Green Revolution began with drastic consequences for human protein consumption via meat and resultant protein malnutrition.

An acre of bamboo is likely to result in more than 10 times the amount of straw (no hard data right now) resulting from Paddy alone with much less water. Mature bamboo when you regularly harvest leaves does not add on too much culm matter (again I am fishing for data on this so will not be taking any bets). If I cannot create 10 times more fodder cellulose from an alternate crop as compared to Paddy straw then yes the idea will fail.

After reading about legumes and plant based proteins they provide I remain singularly unconvinced that they are complete proteins. Some essential amino acids are more or less absent in legumes and you need to get that from animal sources (look up essential amino acids ). They have to supplied from outside. Of course if someone can bioengineer a plant to supply these amino acids without going thru an animal it will revolutionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

Being vegetarian is withholding essential proteins from Indians, you are welcome to hamstring yourself and your kids with morals and non-violence but we are top predators and we should not forget this. Even our shastras do not prohibit meat eating. Look around you and even in India you will find that Non-Vegetarians seem to have good health (case point the NE populations). Of course those who insist on consuming a lot of fried foods will show the consequences of that choice. However I will grant you this... eating animal protein is not as necessary in mature adults but absolutely essential for pregnant women and growing kids (<18-20 years). After that a diet of carbs and lower protein is sufficient.

Granted that there is evidence that unrestrained red meat is harmful however from my observations the most healthy populations (as defined by long life, glowing skin and good musculature) today are meat eating populations of Japan and the Mediterranean. They also seem to eat a lot of fresh vegetables and fruits along with Fish and a little Wine. Personally I was a pure vegetarian when in India and have since turned to a more Japanese/Mediterreanean diet and feel much more energetic.

Some of the above is sufficiently off topic but coming back to Fodder crops... here is a question I want solid answers to
1. Are there Native Trees or Shrubs that provide excellent animal fodder and do not need to planted over and over again and can do ok in water scarce places. Some kinds of succulent cactus perhaps?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Mar 2010 06:41

Vriksh wrote:Being vegetarian is withholding essential proteins from Indians, you are welcome to hamstring yourself and your kids with morals and non-violence but we are top predators and we should not forget this. Even our shastras do not prohibit meat eating. Look around you and even in India you will find that Non-Vegetarians seem to have good health (case point the NE populations). Of course those who insist on consuming a lot of fried foods will show the consequences of that choice. However I will grant you this... eating animal protein is not as necessary in mature adults but absolutely essential for pregnant women and growing kids (<18-20 years). After that a diet of carbs and lower protein is sufficient.

Note that a vegetarian diet with plentiful milk and fresh milk products and eggs is adequate for all populations.

The real problem is that vegetable nutrients are not easily absorbed so we need to eat much more to make us healthy.

The other problem is that Meat allows the body to quickly recharge after illness or child birth & lactation. A vegetarian diet means much slower recovery times.

Basically a Meat diet is very forgiving while a vegetarian diet has to be supplemented and constantly monitored.

The sad part is banning Meat eating causes the most havoc amongst the poor who have no access to low cost protein.

The physical distinction over the generations between the section of my family that is vegetarian is quite striking. Height differences of 1'-1.5' are not unusual. Yes that is in feet.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Mar 2010 06:52

^^^ Is the height difference because of a poor vege diet or just being vegetarian.
As a vege you need to eat a varied diet, which most people do not consume. That might be a driver.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 25 Mar 2010 09:09

What percentage of the indian population is pure vegetarian? This indians are vegetarians and hence physically weak seems to be a canard. If you eat meat as part of your diet, even if not daily, isn't that good enough? Sure, they might not eat meat every meal but enough for nutrition one would suppose.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Mar 2010 09:27

^^^ 31% Indians vege -- most ovo-lacto vegetarians

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 25 Mar 2010 09:29

Right, so more than two thirds of the population isn't strictly vegetarian. In that case, where does all this argument come from? Heck when two thirds of the population has meat or animal products shouldn't that tell you that the problem lies elsewhere? Quality of food products or even access to it?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Mar 2010 10:24

Jarita wrote:^^^ Is the height difference because of a poor vege diet or just being vegetarian.
As a vege you need to eat a varied diet, which most people do not consume. That might be a driver.

It is definitely something that has built up over the generations.

Esp. WRT to the health of the women. The side by side comparison is staggering. The door heights in some of these places are 5'6'!! The women on my side have to stoop to get thru.

Healthier women seem to produce healthier babies (esp. girls) and this effect takes several generations to add up.

You can not have a physically above average male population with a physically below average female population.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 25 Mar 2010 10:31

Pepsi Hires 12,000 Indian Farmers for Lays and Uncle Chipps

Mar. 24 – PepsiCo India has contracted 12,000 farmers across India to try and keep pace with the exploding domestic demand for its cereal based products.

...More than 6,500 of the farmers are located in West Bengal where they will be working on an area of 2,600 acres.

“There are 12,000 farmers doing contract farming of potato for us involving 16,000 acres of land,” Nischint Bhatia, executive vice-president of PepsiCo Holding’s agricultural business.

PepsiCo’s contract farming has picked up very fast, procuring 22,000 tons of potato in the last harvest season, according to Bhatia. ..

Raghz · Post by **Raghz** » 25 Mar 2010 17:49

Genetic factors as well as nutrition determines height rather than meat eating. Look at the table below depicting the average height of people from various countries. Even predominently meat eating countries like China, Indonesia, Philippines etc are no where near west european countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 25 Mar 2010 18:25

Vriksh wrote:True that Culms are the most cellulose rich and need to see if there is a efficient way to convert wood chips/culms to fodder. Have not looked into it yet. However it is obvious that HYV rice and wheat are stunted/short as compared to traditional rice varieties which in turn implies that we are starving animals in India to feed humans every since the Green Revolution began with drastic consequences for human protein consumption via meat and resultant protein malnutrition.

An acre of bamboo is likely to result in more than 10 times the amount of straw (no hard data right now) resulting from Paddy alone with much less water. Mature bamboo when you regularly harvest leaves does not add on too much culm matter (again I am fishing for data on this so will not be taking any bets). If I cannot create 10 times more fodder cellulose from an alternate crop as compared to Paddy straw then yes the idea will fail.

After reading about legumes and plant based proteins they provide I remain singularly unconvinced that they are complete proteins. Some essential amino acids are more or less absent in legumes and you need to get that from animal sources (look up essential amino acids ). They have to supplied from outside. Of course if someone can bioengineer a plant to supply these amino acids without going thru an animal it will revolutionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

Being vegetarian is withholding essential proteins from Indians, you are welcome to hamstring yourself and your kids with morals and non-violence but we are top predators and we should not forget this. Even our shastras do not prohibit meat eating. Look around you and even in India you will find that Non-Vegetarians seem to have good health (case point the NE populations). Of course those who insist on consuming a lot of fried foods will show the consequences of that choice. However I will grant you this... eating animal protein is not as necessary in mature adults but absolutely essential for pregnant women and growing kids (<18-20 years). After that a diet of carbs and lower protein is sufficient.

Granted that there is evidence that unrestrained red meat is harmful however from my observations the most healthy populations (as defined by long life, glowing skin and good musculature) today are meat eating populations of Japan and the Mediterranean. They also seem to eat a lot of fresh vegetables and fruits along with Fish and a little Wine. Personally I was a pure vegetarian when in India and have since turned to a more Japanese/Mediterreanean diet and feel much more energetic.

Some of the above is sufficiently off topic but coming back to Fodder crops... here is a question I want solid answers to
1. Are there Native Trees or Shrubs that provide excellent animal fodder and do not need to planted over and over again and can do ok in water scarce places. Some kinds of succulent cactus perhaps?

First, a disclaimer-

My intent is not to turn everyone into a vegan or vegetarian. However, to quote Einstein, “It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”

As you would have inferred by now, I am a vegan.

I was a non-vegetarian (once in a blue-moon, only on parties type), who used to have daily intake of dairy and occasional intake of egg products (lacto-ovo diet). Well, I turned vegan more than 15 years back . I do not suffer from any chronic illness nor nutrition based deficiencies. I am 5’ 11” and weigh 75 kgs. I have felt an increase in vitality and overall health ever since I turned vegan.
I would recommend the title “Fit for Life” by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond (Warner Books) to gain and insight into why vegetarianism is not only ideal but the need of the hour. My two earlier posts on this topic in this thread (one is a news item ‘Food for thought’ from, err…TOI; but an informative one) also give some insight into this dire need.

Now, to address the issue of essential amino-acids-

After reading about legumes and plant based proteins they provide I remain singularly unconvinced that they are complete proteins. Some essential amino acids are more or less absent in legumes and you need to get that from animal sources (look up essential amino acids ). They have to supplied from outside.

Well, I should say, that we need to examine your statement a bit closely to understand it better . This data has been what has been fed to us and made to believe and is one of the biggest myths that we carry thanks to the meat and dairy lobby. I will explain further-

Now, we come to an area which needs to be understood well since it forms one of the greatest ironies on the subject of protein intake (with ref. to musculature, body mass etc . Which by the way, is more a function of heredity than diet). Protein is not built in the body by eating protein. The extent to which protein is built from protein food is how well the amino acids in that food are utilized. The idea that a piece of chicken or meat that you eat will become protein in your body is absurd. Amino acids should be understood to understand the protein issue.

The body cannot use or assimilate protein in its original state as eaten. The protein must be first be digested and split into its component amino acids. The body can then use these amino acids to construct the protein it needs. Hence, the value of protein depends on its amino acid composition.
To quote Harvey, “there are no ‘essential’ amino acids in flesh that the animal did not derive from plants and that humans cannot also derive from plants. That is why all the animals of strength (e.g.- gorilla, elephants, bison etc) have all the protein they need. They build it from the abundance of amino acids that they consume eating plant life. This is also why, except in emergencies, carnivorous animals generally don’t eat other carnivorous animals. They instinctively eat animals that have eaten plant life.”

In short, all the amino acids, including ‘essential’ ones, can be had by eating fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, or sprouts on a regular basis. This way, your body gets all the protein it needs, just like the other mammals who seem to manage without eating meat. (Two recognized authorities on the habits of gorillas are John Aspinal and Adrien De Schryver. Both have indicated that in their natural habitat, gorillas, which are much closer to humans in evolutionary cycle, are voracious fruit eaters. In fact, when fruit is plentiful, they forgo the eating of any other food until the fruit is depleted).

Some sane voices keep up the truth http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/20 ... .Bc.r.html but usually it is the USD power of the meat (incidentally, the sister leather industry is several times profitable than meat; and the nutrition need myth acts as a façade which floats their boats)

“In addition to scientific verification, this information can be verified simply by putting it into practice. People who eat this way over long periods of time or even lifetimes have NO protein problems. The Hunzas, Vilcabambans, Asians, and half a billion Hindus eat very little protein food in comparison with Western populations, yet have no protein deficiencies. And not surprisingly, no weight problems!!”

There are 8 amino acids which the human body has to appropriate from outside sources and most of the fruits and vegetables contain most of the 8, there are fruits and vegetables like carrots, bananas, sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, corn, cucumbers, eggplant, okra, peas, potatoes, sweet potatoes and tomatoes which contain ALL the amino acids not produced by the body. In addition, all nuts, sunflower and sesame seeds, peanuts and beans contain ALL 8 as well.

The main reason this is being questioned is because it does not fit into the scheme of what has been traditionally taught.

Of course if someone can bioengineer a plant to supply these amino acids without going thru an animal it will revolutionary.

Sir, this is already happening as I mentioned earlier, honed to perfection by Mother Nature. Only if we humans could listen!

Now, let us look at amino acids available from meat. An amino acid chain can contain anywhere from 51 to 200,000 amino acids. When meat is ingested, the chain has to be broken down and reassembled into human protein. Amino acids are somewhat delicate. The heat of cooking coagulates or destroys many of the amino acids so that they are not available for body use. Check -> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 652b1e974e

Hence, if at all the amino acids from meat have to appropriated, it has to be from RAW meat! Incidentally, the digestive system of humans is not designed for the same, a job better left to carnivores! (it definitely makes sense to have as much salads, nuts and seeds and of course fruits; all uncooked, for ALL your amino acid needs. Period)

(as defined by long life, glowing skin and good musculature) today are meat eating populations of Japan and the Mediterranean.

As mentioned earlier, it is more to do with the hereditary make up of the population. In fact, vegetarians have been found to have longer life than non-vegetarians in all scientific studies). We in India, perhaps would need to inculcate a lot more of fruits, raw and semi cooked vegetables and of course a variety of nuts.

Being vegetarian is withholding essential proteins from Indians, you are welcome to hamstring yourself and your kids with morals and non-violence but we are top predators and we should not forget this.

There seems to be a wrong understanding of human beings as “predators”?

To bring forth an analogy by Harvey which I found interesting- Imagine that you are on a morning walk in a garden and you find a chipmunk running around. Would your instinct be to think “Wow, there goes my juicy breakfast” and run after the chipmunk and try to have it for food or derive sadistic joy by capturing and putting it to a slow death (as a carnivorous cat or dog would do; mind you such a behavior is very natural for them) or would you rather go and tell your kids back home how cute and cuddly the chipmunk was?

On the other hand, if you find a tree laden with fruits on your walk, what would your instincts be? To extend your hand and taste it, right?

Please understand that human beings are also identified for human values like trust, compassion, kindness as well which is what makes us what we are!

We are not designed to have meat, either physiologically or psychologically! (the length of the human intestine, the pH of the digestive juices, the excretion pattern etc are not conducive for meat. Please check my earlier post in this thread)

The wrong idea of human beings as “predators” has put the fragile eco systems in the world to tremendous pressure. Millions of species have become extinct due to this attitude of “superiority” over other species. I think you will have a fair idea of how the lowly butterfly in the Amazon is equally connected and responsible to providing you food in the larger eco-system. Mess with them at your own cost…simple! And rearing meat for food is the greatest contributor of deforestation!

Even our shastras do not prohibit meat eating.

Well, for that matter, I have not seen any encouraging meat eating either. Typical of the Hindu way of thinking, the seers left it need based and on individual discretion/native wisdom. For me, their view is a very practical way for ensuring sustenance of life…Say, in a famine, there might arise a need to look to meat resources!! Adhering to a particular dogma will not work in such exigencies. The point is, when you don’t have such an exigency facing under current circumstances, there would be no need to look at extreme measures as meat eating which is detrimental to the environment and human health.

Look around you and even in India you will find that Non-Vegetarians seem to have good health (case point the NE populations).

As mentioned earlier, a lot of it depends on heredity ,lifestyle and environment. An agrarian lifestyle (plenty of exercise by way of work in the fields; low stress levels), plenty of naturally available fresh air, pure water (alkalinity of water plays a pivotal role) are other variables. Just mentioning non-vegetarianism as the contributing factor is erroneous.

However I will grant you this... eating animal protein is not as necessary in mature adults but absolutely essential for pregnant women and growing kids (<18-20 years).

Sorry, I would have to disagree. Check -> http://my.clevelandclinic.org/healthy_l ... rians.aspx

All the folic acid, iron, calcium, amino acids and other nutrition can be had from a vegetarian diet (as an aside, have you ever seen a cow drinking milk during pregnancy? All it does for its calcium is plant diet. In fact, the rennin and lactase required to digest milk by the human body is lost by the age of 5 or so and the milk anyway goes undigested! Scandalous??? !! Yet true!

Granted that there is evidence that unrestrained red meat is harmful however from my observations the most healthy populations

I am glad that you recognize this. The meat industry had to buckle under tremendous pressure due to accumulating evidence from scientific studies and the truth had to come out. But still, the new panacea is ‘white meat’ which again is harmful to human health.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 25 Mar 2010 18:29

Theo_Fidel wrote: The other problem is that Meat allows the body to quickly recharge after illness...

I do not wish to enter any veg/vegan/non-veg debate. However, i doubt if the above statement can be generally assumed to be true.

After any "illness", the body needs to be nourished through foods which help in cleaning the toxins (ama) from the body and helping the body heal itself faster. Usually, foods that are easily digested are only prescribed to regain health without burdening the human digestive system. Ayurveda strongly prescribes light and nutritious foods to get the "fire" in the dig. system back in form. I doubt if Meat can be prescribed after an "illness" .

Also, the standard "X is good for all, hence it must be universally consumed" is untrue and people must at least stay away from foods that their body/mind prakriti cannot digest. Usually speaking, only Pitta ( well built) types may be able to effortlessly digest meat. For kapha and definitely for vata, it could bring with it, unwanted problems on the digestive processes.

Theo_Fidel wrote:It is definitely something that has built up over the generations.

Esp. WRT to the health of the women. The side by side comparison is staggering. The door heights in some of these places are 5'6'!! The women on my side have to stoop to get thru.

Healthier women seem to produce healthier babies (esp. girls) and this effect takes several generations to add up.

You can not have a physically above average male population with a physically below average female population.

I think "healthier" is being confused with "muscular/tall/well built/stronger look" ?

Generally saying, a person's prakriti is determined at the time of birth depending on the 3-4 factors:
The male's overall health and immunity reflecting in his sperm, the female's overall health and immunity reflecting in her ovum, the condition of the uterus, the diet adopted by the female and the season at the time of conception.

For example, if the male is lean and so is the woman, both of general average health and date of conception falls in the winter months, the girl child(assumption) born will be predominantly Vata, which means she will be showing all characteristics of Vata dominated prakriti such as either very tall (rare, but seen) or very short (mostly frail women with natural "size zero"), with a non- muscular build. For this person "healthier" can never be "muscular/well built" (unless weight accumulated for emotional or extreme diet reasons). The person can be healthy even if she is 4'10" and frail, that is, all the human processes would be running fine.

When this (fit) person conceives, maybe her husband could be well built and with good diet and the rainy season in progress, she may well give birth to a well rounded or kapha dominated child! Fit parents generally make fit babies, however even one of the two being fit can produce a healthier baby...

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 25 Mar 2010 21:43

Note that a vegetarian diet with plentiful milk and fresh milk products and eggs is adequate for all populations.

Please see my earlier post. If people knew how to combine vegetarian food intelligently by including variety, dairy and eggs would be redundant. Dairy, in any case, is not digested properly by the adult human body due to absence of enzymes Rennin and Lactase.

The real problem is that vegetable nutrients are not easily absorbed so we need to eat much more to make us healthy.

As per Ford ‘Heritage’s Composition and Facts about Food’, all vegetarian food ranging from green leafy vegetables, fruits to tubers digest from a range of 1 hour- 4 hours. In fact, fruits are known as ‘pre-digested food’ since it is most easily digesting among all foods. Again, it is fruits, nuts and vegetables which get properly absorbed and utilized by body without any detrimental effect. The fibre helps in bowel movement and elimination of toxins.

The other problem is that Meat allows the body to quickly recharge after illness or child birth & lactation. A vegetarian diet means much slower recovery times.

As mentioned above, due to easier absorption and utilization, the veg diet easily scores over meat. Meat is not beneficial (the only thing is that the ill-effects are progressive over a period of time as the human body tolerates toxin and free radical abuse to some extent ). The toxins and free radicals are produced as the fibre-less meat starts rotting/peutrifying half way through the intestine. The free radicals irritate the intestinal walls causing mutation and carcinoma. Due to the lack of fibre in meat, it constipates and further slows down the process of excretion from body.

Basically a Meat diet is very forgiving while a vegetarian diet has to be supplemented and constantly monitored.

Did not get this part- how can a diet which creates toxins in the body be forgiving?

The sad part is banning Meat eating causes the most havoc amongst the poor who have no access to low cost protein.

The hoi polloi needs to be made aware of using and combining vegetarian food properly. That is what is lacking.

The physical distinction over the generations between the section of my family that is vegetarian is quite striking. Height differences of 1'-1.5' are not unusual. Yes that is in feet.

Sincerely speaking, it would depend upon how one defines ‘health’. It should mean a healthy mind and body free from short term and long term illnesses, including degenerative ones AND promoting a good build (as much as heredity would enable). For both these criteria, vegetarian diet is the only diet which fits the bill.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 25 Mar 2010 22:05

tsriram wrote: If you eat meat as part of your diet, even if not daily, isn't that good enough? Sure, they might not eat meat every meal but enough for nutrition one would suppose.

Yes. Even if you do not eat meat, the amino acids can be had from a vegetarian diet. And the human body does not require all the amino acids to be supplied daily through diet. This is because, it has what is known as ‘amino acid pool’. In other words, the cells can store amino acids and when required in some part of the body or when the level falls in the blood, these are released accordingly.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 25 Mar 2010 22:21

After any "illness", the body needs to be nourished through foods which help in cleaning the toxins (ama) from the body and helping the body heal itself faster. Usually, foods that are easily digested are only prescribed to regain health without burdening the human digestive system. Ayurveda strongly prescribes light and nutritious foods to get the "fire" in the dig. system back in form. I doubt if Meat can be prescribed after an "illness" .

True. At least, as far as I understand, in India, the practice is that when we visit a patient who is ill or recuperating, we carry fruits for him because the general understanding is that fruits help in cleansing and aid in recuperation, which is actually true. (I haven’t seen anyone carrying meat or mithai to the patient)

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Mar 2010 02:37

Holy Cow!!

Quite a bit of Madarassa math here.

Fire in the digestive system, Pitta, Kapha, Vata, immunity reflecting in sperm, blahh! blahh! blahh!

I'm waiting for the cow urine line to pop up.

No wonder we rank at the bottom in over all health.

we carry fruits for him because the general understanding is that fruits help in cleansing and aid in recuperation, which is actually true.

Not true at all. No medical study supports this.

Most recovery conditions prescribe easy to digest high nutrient-amino acid-protein-fats-calcium-sugars. Just because we give fruits does not make it a magic bullet. It good for some things not all. A balanced diet including meat can never be beat.

Anyway enough OT.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 26 Mar 2010 12:15

Theo_Fidel wrote:

In a marvellous, well written and good to read book, “Becoming Indian”, Pavan Varma reflects on the state of colonialism of the mind affecting not only our thoughts but also our language and our self esteem. He states, with examples how the colonialised (colon –ised

) internalise the not only the ways, words and mannerisms of the rulers, but also shun their own works in various fields from architecture to arts to literature. Similarly, in medicine, we the people supposedly free from colonial perspectives, have accepted and mentally internalised the definitions of health as stated by the west. When a westerner looks from his/her perspective or a colonialised mind looks through Western eyes and minds, ancient timeless practices of Ayurveda conjure up images of “cow urine” and such and basic tenets of V,P,K appear as madrassa science! A few white sahibs and many half white sahibs that this person met invoke many such funny theories that reminds you that people still think of India being land of sarp charmers curries, tigers and you know what.

The only small little problem that the white/off white sahibs forget is that the “Nutrition Science” or western medicine ( while we're on the subject the name Allopathy was coined by Samuel H, founder of Homeopathy to distinguish it from other sciences) , which often state that disease is the absence of patented medicines and lack of muscle is the absence of protein shakes, were only developed in the eighteenth century while "cow urine" processes were developed centuries before Christ. In another well written book, "Prakriti", the writer Robert Svoboda states that western systems of "rationalist" medicine cannot guarantee well being, as mere mechanistic nutrition/medicine (read pill popping and powder shakes and meat gulping) cannot progress to the same level of Ayurveda or natural medicine.

Nonetheless, sir, to each his own “rationalism” as you say.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Food inflation slips to 16.22% - dnaindia.com

New Delhi: Food inflation eased marginally to 16.22% for the week ended March 13 from 16.30% in the preceding week even though prices of certain items such as pulses and vegetables continued to rise.

Food item prices in Maharashtra rose by 50% in 5 yrs

Mumbai: Maharashtra saw over 50 per cent price rise in many essential commodities, during the last five years, which affected mostly rural areas, the state Economic Survey has said.

The rise was observed mainly due to increase in prices of rice, wheat, tur dal, moong dal, potato, onion and sugar, the survey, tabled in the state Legislature, said.

"About 50 per cent and more hike was seen in tur dal, moong dal, potato, sugar, jaggery and onion prices. About 25 to 50 per cent rise was observed in prices of Urid dal, masur dal, garlic, turmeric powder and up to 25 per cent of hike in rice, bajra, milk, ghee, eggs and fish," the survey said.

‎
Maharashtra shining, applying Chankian economics...

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 26 Mar 2010 12:17

Holy Cow!!

Quite a bit of Madarassa math here.
Fire in the digestive system, Pitta, Kapha, Vata, immunity reflecting in sperm, blahh! blahh! blahh!

Nope. It is not Madrassa math at all. It is taught in BAMS courses recognized by the Govt. of India across different Universities in India. Universities outside India too teach it to Ayurvedic students since the concept of ‘tridoshas’ is fundamental to Ayurveda. If you want, you can visit any of the BAMS graduates who do ‘Pulse diagnosis’ or Naadi Pareeksha ( not to be confused with the Nadi Jyotisham, which is totally a different thing) and find your ‘temperament’ as per the doshas. A skilful physician can tell you correctly through pulse diagnosis (as directly experienced by me, without me telling him), what you ate each day over the last week and how it is influencing your current health (just one of the aspect of this diagnosis; there are several other parameters which are measured too)

I'm waiting for the cow urine line to pop up.

Cow urine is a medicine as per Ayurveda and is a part of many of Ayurvedic formulations as per texts like Ashtangahridaya, Bhaishajyaratnavali and others. Studies have been done in the modern scientific context too and are still going on. Check->
http://www.indianjournals.com/ijor.aspx ... rticle=001
By the way, what is wrong if there is something good associated with cow urine?
Incidentally, during any antibiotic treatment therapy, the patients are prescribed bacilli powder/capsules which also contain a beneficial bacteria called Streptococcus Faecalis (does it’s Specific name ring a bell? Yes, this bacteria is present only in the human faeces but is beneficial). In effect, one is eating part of one’s own $hit! (Hey, but that is acceptable, since it is from XYZ Med Univ in UQ stan, Khanate. But, Cow’s Urine from Ayurveda, Ayur?… who?)

No wonder we rank at the bottom in over all health.

I think that you might know how the GOI is bringing in policy initiatives which give more prominence to traditional systems like Ayurveda, Siddha, Unani etc and has already started working on standardizing and accrediting these knowledge bases. This is due to the recognition/acceptance of the immense contribution that these systems make to the health of populace in India.
Also, I think you are referring to the % of population who are not healthy (in terms of nutrition, mother and child mortality ratio etc) out of the total population of India, which is true. But, do you know that as the middle class and affluent in India are aping the West in its diet (mainly meat based), the stats of cancer, heart attacks, hypertension, obesity, diabetes etc are also rising up and meeting their ‘standards’?

we carry fruits for him because the general understanding is that fruits help in cleansing and aid in recuperation, which is actually true.

Not true at all. No medical study supports this.

Have to disagree with you. You can try this out http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... zeforhealt

BTW, this diet has been recognized by the Dutch Govt. for its effectiveness (wow! The gora govt. has recognized this! So, there must be something valid here!)

Most recovery conditions prescribe easy to digest high nutrient-amino acid-protein-fats-calcium-sugars. Just because we give fruits does not make it a magic bullet. It good for some things not all. A balanced diet including meat can never be beat.

I never said that fruits are a magic bullet. I have already presented the case in my earlier posts. There is so much of data available which do not support your line of thinking.

Anyway enough OT.

Yes, Ayurveda is definitely OT here (the mods can remove it as they wish)
But IMHO, the advantages of vegetarian diet or more importantly the ill effects of a non-vegetarian diet is relevant to the thread since I believe we are discussing Indian Agriculture here which includes the meat industry . The industry is not a sustainable model due to the fact that more people can be fed through a vegetarian diet with the same available land when compared to a meat diet, adverse effect on health of population, higher methane emissions, energy and water intensive nature and its major contribution to deforestation and extinction of natural eco-systems.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 26 Mar 2010 12:27

OT

Ajay, my favorite is 'Macaulay's Children' by Subhash Kak

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/articles_hinduism/120.htm

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 27 Mar 2010 12:05

AjayKK and ravar:
You are both seriously off topic, psychoanalyzing another poster because he disagreed with you. No more of the matter please.
Thanks

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 27 Mar 2010 12:13

Cross Posting from Indian Economy Thread...

About Rice Cultivation, about which I am somewhat familiar

Rice being the staple food is widely cultivated and consumed all over India, in particular South India.

I have hands-on experience with cultivation of rice, and what I write is my experience, together with what I have observed and read about over the years.

The agricultural revolution that was brought in during the early seventies used hybrid seeds, mainly IR-8 and its clones. At that time it was okay… thought the grain was course, it gave ‘bumper’ yields and crop duration was less. I have seen this rice variety giving yields of 3 tons or more per acre. After a few years of cultivation, new varieties gave way. Though the yield was somewhat less, the grain quality was better and people preferred these.

The reasons for lower yield were found to be (in my observation) :

 Unscientific use of chemical fertilizers, mostly because of the lack of awareness among farmers about the right quantity and time of application.

 Lack of application of farmyard manure such as cow dung/compost etc. This can be attributed due to less number of cattle reared amongst the farmers. This in turn was the result of the advent of tractor for ploughing the field.

 When both combined (over application of chemical fertilizers and less application of farmyard manure), soil degraded, resulting in less output. To get more output, the farmers applied more chemical fertilizers which accelerated soil degradation further.

 Application of pesticides, weedicides etc aggravated the situation and in some areas, the productivity has come down drastically.

 Farmers are generally unaware of the condition their soil. Most of them don’t know what is PH value and how it affects their crop. Of course, some of them apply lime (CaOH) arbitrarily, once a while and that is the end of the story. The exact PH level to be maintained for each crop and the dramatic effect it can have in the final yield is not taught to them.

 Cost of labour – The cost of labour is so high that it has become uneconomical to cultivate paddy in many parts of the country. Various social security/employment schemes introduced by the Govts have played havoc and employment of manual labour has become almost impossible. The tendency of the labourers is to harvest only that much necessary for their daily wages (as paddy)..This way they can extend the number of days of employment and the farmer gets practically nothing. When last counted, my family lost Rs 10,000/- per crop per acre, when paddy was cultivated. Of course, the cultivation is completely manual (except for the tractor ploughing part) and unscientific.

I have started to think seriously about the ways and means to improve the situation..I don’t know how far I will succeed. I am planning o do things in the following manner.

1. Mechanize the operation completely. Earlier, there used be resistance from farm labourers in my state (Kerala), but as of now it has mostly subsided – there are simply not enough labourers available. Plus most of them consider working in the field as a menial job and in about 10 years, there won’t be anyone available.

By mechanization, I mean ploughing the field, sowing the field using seed drills, weeding by using semi-mechanized devices, application of fertilizers using ferigation, harvesting by combined harvesters. It may not be possible to avoid manpower completely, but I feel this much of mechanization itself would reduce the labour cost dramatically.

2. Use of quality seeds. At present many farmers use seeds from the paddy cultivated for the next crop. They don’t buy seeds from quality seed suppliers or agencies. This has a big effect on the yield.

3. Use of farmyard / Green manure. To retain the soil fertility, it is essential to apply generous quantity of farmyard manure. But it is easily said, than done. The basic reason is lack of enough animals around..And very few are familiar with composting techniques. It is major challenge, and particular care needs to be given to have adequate source of farmyard manure. To supplement the availability, plants like daincha etc can be grown in the fields and ploughed after 45 days of growth.

4. Application of Fertilisers – correct usage of fertilizers is very important and this can be done successfully by fertigation. Use a chemical dosing pump to inject concentrated fertilizer solution to the pump discharge at the right dosage level. This will result in savings on labour cost and even distribution of the fertilizer throughout the field.

5. Removal of weeds – Use semi-automatic methods which are already available to improve productivity and reduce labour cost.

6. Harvesting – Use combined harvesters to harvest the crop. It costs about Rs 1,500/- to harvest one acre, which is much less than manual labour.

The reality!

At present, the average yield per acre (including the paddy given to labourers as their wages) is about 3 tons per acre. This can be increased to 7 tons per acre. There are reports that it is already being achieved at some places in Kerala where Basmati farming is being taken up by farmers.

Good quality seeds give more output and fetches better price. The course paddy in Kerala is bought by the Govt at a price of Rs 12 / Kg. So, 7 tons would fetch about 84,000/- per crop. For 2 crops per year, it gives 1,68,000/- per acre per year. The Expenditure can be restricted to Rs 50,000/- per year/acre, giving a return of Rs 10,000/- per acre per month. It is achievable, in my opinion. If you take the land on rent, reduce Rs 5000/- per year per acre, as rental. If high quality seeds like Basmati is cultivated, it fetches about Rs 17/Kg.

Now, for an educated youth to venture into farming, he would need an income ‘comparable’ to what his ‘city’ cousins get….

It is ‘very easy’ to manage 10 acres of paddy field by one man. With hard work, and an assistant, he can manage 20 acres. With a dedicated team, it is possible to manage 100 acres.

It is also possible to grow a crop of say, black gram after harvesting paddy in the same field, which fetches additional income. If you get into dairy farm and other supplementary activities, then sky is the only limit.

To top it all, your farm income is not taxable, to the best of my knowledge. At present I am paying almost 35% on my taxable income, and another 10% as service tax (which used to be 12%) – i.e., almost half of what I earn is ‘taken away’ by the Govt. (of course the incidence of service tax is due to peculiar nature of my business).

Anybody Salivating?

Please feel free to comment, as your inputs will be most valuable

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 27 Mar 2010 12:23

Correction...Pls take the yield and income per Hectre instead of acres.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 27 Mar 2010 13:55

Suraj wrote:AjayKK and ravar:
You are both seriously off topic, psychoanalyzing another poster because he disagreed with you. No more of the matter please.
Thanks

My apologies. Though it was not to 'deconstruct' the poster. I just replied to Ajay off hand. Yes, could have hurt some, for which I am sorry.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 11 Apr 2010 15:12

A rice variety that can be eaten without cooking

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 16 Apr 2010 22:04

India May Grow Record Wheat as Heat Spares Crop

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... ate1-.html

The wheat harvest in India, the world’s second-biggest, may top last year’s record as the main growing areas escape a heat wave, a government official said.

Output may be about 82 million metric tons, up from 80.68 million tons last year, said S.S. Singh, head of the state-run Directorate of Wheat Research, repeating his February estimate. The government has predicted a crop of 80.28 million tons.

Indian wheat-growers have started gathering their crops, adding to local stockpiles that are more than four times the minimum needed to cope with emergencies. A bumper harvest will help the government buy a record 26 million tons from farmers this marketing year to sell grains at cheaper rates to the poor.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 18 Apr 2010 04:52

Chinmayanand wrote:A rice variety that can be eaten without cooking

sounds like great news!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Apr 2010 06:47

SRI method of farming is becoming popular in Thanjavur

System of Rice Intensification (SRI) method of farming has become popular among farmers of Thanjavur district.

. . . 40 per cent of water is saved in SRI method per hectare. Seedlings can be raised using mat or on a raised land and they can be plucked and planted within 15 to 20 days. In the conventional method, the seedlings are transplanted only after a month. Thus water requirement becomes less.

With respect to seeds only five to six kg of seeds is required for a hectare while in conventional method farmers have to use 70 kg of seeds. As conoweeder is used for removing weeds, it presses the soil around the root of the seedlings planted. The crop matures early also.

With respect to yield, a farmer can take nearly 8050 kg per hectare under SRI method while the yield will be only 5000 to 6000 kg under conventional method. During samba this year, paddy under SRI was raised on 48,000 hectares out of the total area of 1,38,000 hectares. During kuruvai, it was raised on 8500 hectares under SRI out of the total area of 22,000 hectares,

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 20 Apr 2010 01:37

This farmer earns Rs. 22 lakh a year from 2.1 acres of land

...
Ginger is cultivated along with areca in the plantation, and it yields him about Rs. 70,000 a year. Mr. Sadananda has also made space in his areca plantation for rearing 250 Giriraja hens which he sells every three months to earn about Rs. 1 lakh a year. The poultry droppings are valuable manure for the areca plantation while agricultural waste is used as feed for the birds. He has planted about 2,000 rose cuttings on three-fourth of an acre, which fetches him about Rs. 4 lakh a year, and has set up a greenhouse on one-fourth of an acre for cultivating capsicum and high-quality rose alternatively. Capsicum, cultivated for about six months, yields him about Rs. 5.4 lakh while the rose variety that replaces capsicum for the next six months gets him about Rs. 2.5 lakh a year.
...
Interestingly, he also breeds Rottweiler and Great Dane breeds of dogs to earn Rs. 1.2 lakh a year.
...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Apr 2010 11:17

More mills in South opt for mechanical cane harvesting

Sugar mills – particularly in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Maharashtra – are taking to mechanical cane harvesting in a major way, in the context of rising costs as well as scarcity of manual labour.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 03 May 2010 21:56

India's farmers profit from organic boom

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiap ... om/?hpt=C2

There's a big change sweeping across the fields of rural India. Tens of thousands of farmers are giving up on chemical farming and going back to a traditional ancient way of farming which is organic.

Environmentalists estimate that India has around 300,000 organic farms. Farmers are learning different skills and adjusting their mindset, says Upendra Dutt, who organizes training sessions in organic agriculture.

India's organic farming sector accounts for only a sliver of the global $50 billion market for organic products but the potential is huge.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 17 May 2010 00:06

India eyes organic food exports of $1 bn

http://beta.thehindu.com/business/Econo ... 430902.ece

India has set a target of exporting organic food worth $1 billion in the next five years with its produce receiving wide acceptance in many mature markets of the US and Europe, a top official said on Saturday.

Last year, India exported 135 organic products under 18 categories. The total volume was 44,476 tonnes, realising over $125 million. The overall growth of organic food exports, thus, was 50.31 per cent over the previous year.

Around 60 per cent of the country’s organic products were exported to the European Union, 20 per cent to the US, 5 per cent to Japan and the rest to Canada, Australia and East Asian countries.

Currently, India ranks 33rd in terms of total land under organic cultivation and 88th in terms of the ratio of agricultural land under organic crops to total farming area, as per statistics available with APEDA.

Officials explained that under the 11th Five Year Plan (2007-2012), the country targeted the development of five million hectares of cultivable land into certified organic farmland by promoting a scheme to compensate farmers for the lower yield of such crops.