Indian Military Aviation

Uri_T · Post by **Uri_T** » 28 Mar 2010 01:02

18:19 IST
The first of the three Indian Air Force AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) platform landed on India soil escorted by the venerable Mig-29 and Jaguar fighters at the IAF’s Jamnagar airbase, today at 1135 hrs (IST).

A special ‘Induction ceremony’ awaits the AWACS in the National Capital where Defence Minister Shri AK Antony will dedicate this force-multiplier to the Nation on Thursday, May 28.

The news of the landing of the aircraft was conveyed to Shri AK Antony by the Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal FH Major within an hour of the former resuming the office as the Defence Minister for a second successive term.

The AWACS is a tripartite venture amongst India, Russia and Israel. The Indian Air Force laid down the operational requirements in detail based on which the Israeli ‘Phalcon’ radar was mounted on the Russian IL-76 aircraft equipped with the more powerful PS-90A engines making it more advanced than many such systems. This is the first of a total of three AWACS that the IAF is slated to receive. The remaining two are expected to be inducted into the IAF by 2010 and all the AWACS would be based at Agra. India is one of the few countries to have inducted the AWACS in their Air Forces.

The AWACS is a true ‘force-multiplier’ that gives a quantum jump to the operational capabilities of the Indian Air Force. Known as the Air Force’s ‘Eye in the Sky’, it is capable of detecting intruders over sea and land at large distances. It has many other capabilities including Electronic and Signal Intelligence gathering. Once operationalised alongwith the Operational Data Link (ODL), Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) and the Air Force Net (AFNET), the IAF would have taken a definitive step towards Net Centric Operations.

http://www.idf-armor.blogspot.com/

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 28 Mar 2010 02:39

^^ this is old news!!! I think what you probably meant is SECOND of the Three AWACS, has landed in India!!

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 28 Mar 2010 16:41

Fighter planes come with side-effects..

Widespread deafness is a major problem for the villagers of Santhali, in Kalchini Block of Jalpaiguri district of the Northeast Indian State, West Bengal.

This deafness strikes everyone, from children to old ones in this hamlet, who enjoyed seeing the flight of airforce planes and fighter-aircraft (especially, Mig-21, Mig-27, Ground Attack Fighters and some Mig-23UB)s, when they soar in the sky over their heads. Unfortunately, this great spectacle has made them all deaf. From newborn to old aged, all the people in this area suffer from deafness.

http://newsblaze.com/story/201003271231 ... story.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Mar 2010 18:15

shukla wrote:
http://newsblaze.com/story/201003271231 ... story.html

Interesting

Close the airbase down for repression maybe?

The other repression is people who on the airbase and work there. And what about airport staff all over the country. All being repressed.

"This is a kind of repression and it has been continuing for the last 20 to 25 years and as a result, 40 to 45 percent of people in these areas have lost their hearing and have become deaf. Apart from this, at night, when the sky remains clear, the IAF come out with four to five fighter planes and begin flying very low in the sky to chase each other, which causes many times the prescribed sound limit of 60 to 65 decibels", according to both the local doctor and the village-quack.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 28 Mar 2010 18:42

shiv wrote:Close the airbase down for repression maybe?

every medication has its side effects..put up with the side effects for the greater good!

I take your point though.. Just thought it would make an interesting read.. I remember reading recently the Swiss fighter selection took noise levels of aircrafts into account. Wonder if manifacturers bother thinking of noise levels during production?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Mar 2010 19:07

shukla sahab, why post such meaningless reports here and give them eyeballs ? what do we expect from a news site that has UFO's as a regular category ?
please use your judgement in these things.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 28 Mar 2010 19:14

Rahul M wrote:shukla sahab, why post such meaningless reports here and give them eyeballs ? what do we expect from a news site that has UFO's as a regular category ?
please use your judgement in these things.

Point taken...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2010 19:27

imo it could a 'start problem' or 'payload problem' than any design issue with the engine. granted that 10,000 ft high fighter bases are thin on the ground, but all nato fighters routinely operate from really cold places like canada, norway and sweden.

methinks they started off but their MTOW/takeoff run in leh fell below the brochure claims

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 28 Mar 2010 22:26

Singha wrote:imo it could a 'start problem' or 'payload problem' than any design issue with the engine. granted that 10,000 ft high fighter bases are thin on the ground, but all nato fighters routinely operate from really cold places like canada, norway and sweden.

methinks they started off but their MTOW/takeoff run in leh fell below the brochure claims

True sir... what about high places???

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Mar 2010 23:22

shiv wrote: Interesting

Close the airbase down for repression maybe?

The other repression is people who on the airbase and work there. And what about airport staff all over the country. All being repressed.

"This is a kind of repression and it has been continuing for the last 20 to 25 years and as a result, 40 to 45 percent of people in these areas have lost their hearing and have become deaf. Apart from this, at night, when the sky remains clear, the IAF come out with four to five fighter planes and begin flying very low in the sky to chase each other, which causes many times the prescribed sound limit of 60 to 65 decibels", according to both the local doctor and the village-quack.

in Switzerland, fighter noise is one of the factors that was part of the evaluation of their new fighter. The Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen all had their take-off decibels noted down for comparison and marks were even allocated for this.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Mar 2010 23:26

putnanja wrote:
...
The Indian Air Force has floated a brand new tender this month for six amphibious aircraft for "search and rescue missions, inter-island communication, rapid response duties and reconnaissance of islands". The IAF has set down a preference for a twin turboprop craft with a range of at least 800-nm.
...

this report of new amphib aircraft for CSAR and some other roles fits in quite well with what I'd written about the KC-130J tanker being a good idea for the IAF and IN because as more and more operations take place over waters far from land, the crew is placed at greater risk because SAR helos may not be otherwise able to get to them due to range and fuel limitations. CSAR with amphibious aircraft would allow much greater range of operations and mission duration as well.

sunilpatel · Post by **sunilpatel** » 28 Mar 2010 23:37

though 4 MMRCA Fighter failed in Leh...we will select from remaining 2

.but wherrrrrrrrrrr is out LCH, when it will just take off from the normal altitude of Banglore???!!!!!

Any chaiwala, panwala, ???

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 29 Mar 2010 00:24

Banglore is in Kerla... so say many people on deaf N dumb...PeeDeeYeff

But the chai wala is right...LCH is enough to take care of Fizzleya

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Mar 2010 06:50

sunilpatel wrote:though 4 MMRCA Fighter failed in Leh...we will select from remaining 2

No such thing is likely. A failure at Leh may mean that modifications have to be done to rectify something. That's all.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 29 Mar 2010 06:53

shiv wrote:A failure at Leh may mean that modifications have to be done to rectify something.

Shiv, will they or shouldn't they be reassesed after the modifications? Or are they so minor that it wouldn't matter??

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Mar 2010 06:56

shiv wrote:
sunilpatel wrote:though 4 MMRCA Fighter failed in Leh...we will select from remaining 2
No such thing is likely. A failure at Leh may mean that modifications have to be done to rectify something. That's all.

that would depend on if the problem is rectifiable in the first place.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Mar 2010 07:17

shukla wrote:
shiv wrote:A failure at Leh may mean that modifications have to be done to rectify something.
Shiv, will they or shouldn't they be reassesed after the modifications? Or are they so minor that it wouldn't matter??

We don't even know what the problem was. We have to know the requirement first. For example if the requirement was "Start up after overnight cold soak in X minutes" and one a/c achieved start up after X+2 minutes it has "failed". But imagine if that aircraft has scored better than all contenders in every other area in every other part of India, it is highly unlikely to get rejected just for that.

Note that my example is purely hypothetical. When we are on to hypotheses it is possible to cook up 25000 different data points to pass or fail an aircraft on this forum. The point is, without the data what we imagine could well be rubbish.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 29 Mar 2010 08:16

Thanks Rahul & Shiv..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Mar 2010 08:36

Yep me to think the Leh failure is more cosmetic than serious something the manufacturer can rectify it without much problem

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 29 Mar 2010 08:59

DELETED

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Mar 2010 09:32

Vivek , Please refer to Kartik post on MMRCA thread on the challenges aircraft operating from Leh may face.

Please try not to get personal ,lets put our respective pov on issues and keep it there.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 29 Mar 2010 12:39

Austin wrote:Yep me to think the Leh failure is more cosmetic than serious something the manufacturer can rectify it without much problem

Highly possible... But what if there is no viable solution to the "cosmetic" solution??? I mean, what if it requires some amount of re-engineering of the part, what happens then???

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 29 Mar 2010 12:47

X - post

Elbit wins $147 million contract to supply airborne and ground electronic warfare systems in Asia (likely India)

Elbit Systems Ltd. announced today that its subsidiary, Elisra Electronic Systems Ltd., was awarded contracts to supply airborne and ground electronic warfare (EW) systems, for a customer in Asia, at an aggregate value of approximately $147 million. The systems will be delivered over the next three years.The unnamed customer is likely to be India.

Elisra CEO Itzhak Gat noted that the selection of Elisra's systems attests to the company's technological leadership and to the maturity of its systems. These contract awards strengthen Elisra's position as a recognized world leader in the Electronic Warfare market.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 29 Mar 2010 18:25

LCH makes first flight ?
http://angle-of-attack.blogspot.com/201 ... light.html

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 29 Mar 2010 18:44

A request for a journal reference please - Vayu Aerospace in the not so distant past carried an article on ASTE in which some info was disclosed on adapting the R-60 missile with the Hawker Hunter.

Can anyone provide me with an issue reference ?

Later: Found Issue 1/2004: look at page 60

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 29 Mar 2010 18:55

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Austin wrote:Yep me to think the Leh failure is more cosmetic than serious something the manufacturer can rectify it without much problem
Highly possible... But what if there is no viable solution to the "cosmetic" solution??? I mean, what if it requires some amount of re-engineering of the part, what happens then???

Look at it like this - the contending firms were aware of the type of tests that the aricraft were to be put through. So they would have put in their best into these craft to ensure that they would pass the tests that were probably made known to the vendors in advance. Yet their aircraft had unspecified "failure" in some tests. Even if cosmetic, the aircraft will require re-engineering.

If OTOH the tests represent insignificant operational attributes, then why is IAF wasting time in evaluating these qualities?

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 29 Mar 2010 18:56

Vivek K wrote:DELETED

Rahul, I respect your decision. However, if there are posts attacking the Arjun on issues that have been rectified then will you take the same action as here?

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 29 Mar 2010 20:22

Cross posting from idrw.org/forum which has a link to a blog

http://angle-of-attack.blogspot.com/201 ... light.html

In what appears to be a major achievement for HAL and the Indian military aviation sector ,the country's first indigenously developed attack helicopter, the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) has made its maiden test flight. According to unconfirmed sources the LCH serial number "ZP 4601" took to skies today.
LCH will form the backbone of the Indian Air Force and Indian Army which are currently operating some 80 Soviet Era Mi-24's and Mi-35's. Both the Russian attack helicopters are getting old and obsolete and with Pakistani Air Force upgrading their American Cobra Attack helicopter their is serious gap in capabilities which LCH is supposed to fill.
LCH was undergoing extensive ground trails since February 4 and many were expecting it to take to skies in that month itself. The program was delayed for more than a year because of weight issues but its seems like most problems are solved now. The current prototype being tested is a non-weaponized version meant to test only the basic structure of the helicopter. Next two prototypes are expected to be weaponized. LCH will need many more hours of testing before it receives its final operation certificate. Both the Army and the Air Force have heavily invested in the project with 189 on order. LCH is expected to enter service by 2015.

Any confirmation ?? yet

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Mar 2010 20:54

Vivek K wrote:Look at it like this - the contending firms were aware of the type of tests that the aricraft were to be put through. So they would have put in their best into these craft to ensure that they would pass the tests that were probably made known to the vendors in advance. Yet their aircraft had unspecified "failure" in some tests. Even if cosmetic, the aircraft will require re-engineering.

If OTOH the tests represent insignificant operational attributes, then why is IAF wasting time in evaluating these qualities?

In a perfect world yes , but there is always an "X" or unknown factor associated with such test and even well prepared contender will be taken by surprise , specially if they are not aware or experienced with the wide operating environment of the IAF.

I remember watching many eons ago of Mig-27 having problems firing its engine at Leh and after some smart thinking by the pilot and some on the spot changes done on fuel system , they managed to start the engine and the 27 could operate from high altitudes. May be some old timers remember the exact incident.

shanksinha · Post by **shanksinha** » 29 Mar 2010 20:58

An IAF Canberra (Q1796), shot from 1970s
Photo copyright: Mike Freer

Thanks-

Ashish J · Post by **Ashish J** » 29 Mar 2010 22:03

http://livefist.blogspot.com/

Monday, March 29, 2010
Light Combat Helicopter Takes Off

m i dreaming????

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 29 Mar 2010 22:07

congratulations everybody and to HAL as well ! badhaai ho !

munna · Post by **munna** » 29 Mar 2010 22:10

Hurray!!!! aaahun aahun aahun

Congrats to all!!

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 29 Mar 2010 22:14

Finally! Let's pray that its get's inducted soon!

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 29 Mar 2010 23:15

Marten wrote:AoA... excellent news indeed. Now, did Shiv confirm this based on the AoA blog?

Happy to hear the bird is flying - now the long wait for the weaponized versions.

Get your BIL on standby again

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Mar 2010 23:25

^^^Now how did I miss the sortie..aha! was out on a meeting in the morning

....am keeping watch from tomorrow....

sathyaC · Post by **sathyaC** » 29 Mar 2010 23:30

LCH Jai hind

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 29 Mar 2010 23:34

Really a great news....Now mods Please a new thread for LCH...!

@ Rohit..please try it with camera.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 29 Mar 2010 23:40

Around 1600 hours in Bangalore, there was a engine note quite different from what i usually hear.. I could not get a visual since i was stuck in the OR of Manipal Hospital... So a very good chance of the news of LCH's first flight being authentic...

Added Later

Rohitvats wrote:^^^Now how did I miss the sortie..aha! was out on a meeting in the morning ....am keeping watch from tomorrow....

Roger that.. i've got the west northwest approach from Airport road.. Hope to see the bird in the air tomorrow too...

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 29 Mar 2010 23:43

Jai ho.

Inshallah, this will attain FOC within 2 years.