Indian Military Aviation

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 30 Mar 2010 01:21

First flight is a great initial milestone, hope they get a lean mean fighting machine delivered to IAF/IA with in next five years.

Good luck to HAL!

Asit P · Post by **Asit P** » 30 Mar 2010 02:00

Congratulations to all the deshbhakts.

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 30 Mar 2010 06:39

it could have been low level hovering that's why no news , but i am happy since i was first one to break the news

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 30 Mar 2010 07:11

thats good.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Mar 2010 07:43

chipanda big heli recently did a hover for 1st flight.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 30 Mar 2010 09:38

I cannot comment further on this it would be good if someone confirms it because there is lot of secrecy around it.

@Mr Shiv Aroor
I hope you are not just relying on my blog alone.

But if the news is true than great work HAL !!!

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 30 Mar 2010 11:49

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/03/lc ... etres.html

LCH confirmed airborne..Congratulations to everyone involved.. we have been waiting to hear this news for so long.. jai hind

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 30 Mar 2010 12:06

Natt wrote:http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/03/lc ... etres.html

LCH confirmed airborne..Congratulations to everyone involved.. we have been waiting to hear this news for so long.. jai hind

HAL balle balle baaki saare thalle thalle

Congratulations HAL....

Someone in the comments sections mentioned that it was painted in Black....

Can't wait to see this beauty.....

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 30 Mar 2010 12:09

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/03/lc ... etres.html
HAL has decided not to put out photos of videos of the flight, though it was , of course, photographed and videographed. Let's see what can be done!

Damn you HAL!

Don't they realize how long we have been waiting for a glimpse?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Mar 2010 12:18

goodness gracious ! the LCH in black ?! like the WSI Dhruv with the Cheetah lunging ? Must be a stunner !

Ashish J · Post by **Ashish J** » 30 Mar 2010 12:24

OT Post,,but quite interesting..

Anand Mahindra turns focus to aviation

INDIA'S entrepreneur of the year, Anand Mahindra, has a fresh field to conquer: making passenger aircraft, aided by some Australian expertise.

It’s a market of considerable size. In the Asia-Pacific region alone, Boeing estimates that airlines will spend $1.2 trillion over the next 20 years on as many as 9000 new planes.

Mr Mahindra, vice-chairman and managing director of the $7 billion conglomerate that bears his family’s name, aspires to turn the group’s aerospace arm into an Indian version of Embraer, the Brazilian plane maker which builds a range of aircraft up to the size of a regional jet.

But the Mahindra brand is better known for its tractors and utility vehicles, and building a regional jet is a complex and time consuming business that usually starts with the production of much smaller turbo prop aircraft.

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It took Embraer – formed in 1969 by the Brazilian government and privatised in 1994 -- more than 20 years before it built its first passenger jets in the early 1990s.

To speed up the process, three months ago Mahindra agreed to pay about $40 million for a controlling stake in two small Australian aviation companies, Gippsland Aeronautics and Melbourne-based component maker Aerostaff Australia.

Gippsland Aeronautics, based in Victoria’s Latrobe Valley and maker of the popular 8-seat GA8 Skyvan utility plane, plans to beef up its range next year with an updated 18-seat version of the controversial Australian-made Nomad twin turbo-prop. It bought the rights to the Nomad’s type certification in 2008.

The Nomad, designed in the late 1960s and built in Melbourne by the old Government Aircraft Factories between 1971 and 1984, saw service with the Royal Flying Doctor Service and a variety of other civilian and military operators in Australia and overseas. About 170 examples of the Nomad were built, in variants from 12 to 18 passengers. But its reputation suffered from a run of fatal crashes, and the Australian Army retired its Nomad fleet in 1995.

Aerostaff Australia makes high precision aircraft components and assemblies for makers such as Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

So far, the Mahindra group’s experience in aviation extends to the co-design of a five-seater plane with the National Aeronautics Laboratory (NAL) of India – designated the NM5 and expected to fly later this year -- and the production under licence of a light Australian plane, the Seabird Seeker, for the Middle East.

Despite his group’s relative lack of scale in aviation, Mr Mahindra sees great promise in the aerospace industry and the related defence offsets business.

“We aspire to be a major force in aviation,” he told The Australian in Mumbai earlier this month.

“The driving force behind our Australian acquisitions is to be the Embraer of India,” he said. “We are not gunning for Embraer. It’s more a case that we see it as a role model.”

He points out that Brazil was a relatively low income country when Embraer started up and there was little expectation that an emerging nation could develop a successful global aviation business.

Mr Mahindra, known for his entrepreneurial acumen and ability to spot new business opportunities, said that to define the parameters of any plane that the group might build is to defeat the purpose of the aspiration.

“There is no point dimensioning it,” he said. So rather than quantify a goal such as a 50, 70, or 90-seat aircraft, Mahindra simply aims to get busy on developing a product line as quickly as possible.

“Our aspiration is, why can’t there be a company from the Indian private sector with a reasonable stake and a reasonable amount of achievement in aircraft manufacturing?" he said. "That’s the aspiration, and that’s where we’d like to be. We know it took a long time for Embraer to develop that skill, but these days things are compressed and you are expected to achieve things faster.

“So we are busy plotting a trajectory to get us there. Some of that is organic, but if you are going to make strides, there have to be some inorganic pieces too. And with inorganic, you can’t necessarily plan for it, as was the case with the Gippsland Aeronautics acquisition.”

Mahindra said the Gippsland Aeronautics deal was attractive because it came with a portfolio of aircraft already flying and another, the Nomad, already certified. “That gives you a kickstart,” he said.

Mr Mahindra is conscious that it is a step-by-step process, going from a GA8 Airvan to a 10-seater, then to an 18-seater Nomad and on to regional jet. While he recognised that it takes time, he joked that he hoped it will happen before he retired. Mr Mahindra will turn 55 in about a month’s time.

If and when a regional transport aircraft emerges from the Mahindra group, Anand Mahindra is adamant that it will be a world-class product. “We don’t want two levels of quality and two sets of specifications,” he said.

“We don’t think in two compartments any more when designing a product. The moment you say this one’s for India and that’s for the world, it encourages a split personality, and that’s not a good thing. You don’t want any schizophrenia in the company.

“Look, we’ll make a world-class product and we’ll go where the markets are. Arguably, the biggest aircraft markets in the world in the next two decades are going to be China and India anyway."

Last September, Boeing said it expected the Asia Pacific region to be the world’s largest aviation market by 2028, with about $1.2 trillion being spent on almost 9000 new planes over the next 20 years. Boeing said that strong demand for single aisle planes in China and India meant that about 5600 of these would be single aisle models.

Along with Boeing and Airbus, makers such as Embraer and Canada’s Bombardier compete for the single-aisle market. Chinese and Japanese manufacturers also aim to enter the sector by 2016.

Mr Mahindra said India’s huge domestic market gave it a “tremendous home-base advantage” in building a scale business. He said it was important for Indian business people to understand that it was the big domestic market “that allows us to become world-class players”.

Mr Mahindra and his uncle Keshub Mahindra, who joined the group in 1947 and has been its chairman since 1963, are regarded as among the towering figures of Indian industry. Keshub Mahindra sits on the Prime Minister’s Council on Trade & Industry, while last month, Anand Mahindra was named Ernst & Young’s entrepreneur of the year and business channel NDTV’s business leader of the year.

The Mahindra group’s businesses include financial services, automotive products, trade, retail and logistics, information technology and infrastructure development. It is one of the world’s biggest tractor makers, with plants in India, China and the United States, and an assembly site in Brisbane, Australia. In Australia, it also sells the Mahindra Pik-Up, a light utility.

The Mahindra family and associates hold a stake of about 13 per cent in the main group company, Mahindra & Mahindra, which has a market capitalisation of $7bn.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 5847496521

Ashish J · Post by **Ashish J** » 30 Mar 2010 12:28

oh,sorry,,shud have posted the same on "Interanational Aerospace Discussion" maybe,,,

Neways waitin 4 LCH pics

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Mar 2010 14:40

smpratik wrote:I cannot comment further on this it would be good if someone confirms it because there is lot of secrecy around it.

@Mr Shiv Aroor
I hope you are not just relying on my blog alone.

But if the news is true than great work HAL !!!

It flew in front of an audience of 2-3000 people yesterday, including the HAL chairman.

It mainly did some handling checks at slow speeds.... up, down, sideways, but not backwards.

Also did IGE hover at about 4 mts or so.

All was normal.

This is being considered an un official flight.

The actual one in front of VIPs, press etc will probably be some time towards the middle or late next month.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Mar 2010 14:56

Kartik wrote:goodness gracious ! the LCH in black ?! like the WSI Dhruv with the Cheetah lunging ? Must be a stunner !

Yes, Black with a tiger face painted on both sides of the nose!

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 30 Mar 2010 15:58

chetak wrote:

It flew in front of an audience of 2-3000 people yesterday, including the HAL chairman.

It mainly did some handling checks at slow speeds.... up, down, sideways, but not backwards.

Also did IGE hover at about 4 mts or so.

All was normal.

This is being considered an un official flight.

The actual one in front of VIPs, press etc will probably be some time towards the middle or late next month.

Around what time did the flight take place???

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 30 Mar 2010 17:02

Thanks for the insight Mr chetak.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 30 Mar 2010 17:18

US military aid to Pak matter of concern: Air chief

"The aid being given to Pakistan is a matter of concern to us definitely and we have made it known. We have not hidden anything," Naik said soon after taking over as the Chairman, Chiefs of Staffs Committee here.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 30 Mar 2010 18:41

FIRST PHOTOS! The Light Combat Helicopter In Flight

sathyaC · Post by **sathyaC** » 30 Mar 2010 18:59

any news on the 22 attack helo RFP that was to be sent out

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 31 Mar 2010 17:44

MiG-27 fighters to remain grounded for further checks

Over 100 MiG-27s are yet to take to the skies after being grounded following the crash of one of these `swing-wing' strike fighters in West Bengal on February 16.

"The MiG-27 trainer variants are flying since they have a different engine. As far as the other engines are concerned, we are going in for more details before we decide if any more checks are required,'' said IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik on Tuesday.

As earlier reported by TOI, the entire MiG-27 fleet had been grounded after preliminary reports indicated that the `failure of low-pressure turbine blades', which is not in the realm of day-to-day servicing and maintenance, had led to the mishap on February 16.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 31 Mar 2010 17:47

Lockheed Asks IAF to Pay for After-Sales Service
The Indian Express

Lockheed Asks IAF to Pay for After-Sales Service
Agencies
Posted: Tuesday , Mar 30, 2010 at 1502 hrs
Atlanta

As Indian Air Force gets ready to induct the first of its C-130J transport aircraft early next year, the US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin has assured India of full serviceability at all times - but at a Price.

The offer from the American company may prove to be a boon to IAF which has been having massive serviceability problems with its Russian supplied short and medium haul transport aircraft which are Forced to be Grounded due to Shortage of Spares.

With IAF now Poised to change its Transport Inventory from Russia to Apparently USA, the Lockheed Martin is Offering 80 per cent Serviceability for its C-130J transport aircraft Enabling it to be Operational at All Times.

The military aircraft manufacturer has assured the IAF that it will ensure their six C-130J transport fleet is fit and ready for operations when the IAF requires it badly.

After decades of flying Russian aircraft, India recently signed major contracts with the US firm for supply of these aircraft for special operations. The company is hoping that New Delhi would increase its orders to make Hercules as the main stay of the IAF transport fleet replacing the ageing Russian AN-32 aircraft.

"We have offered India a sustainment package for the six C-130Js on the basis of performance of the fleet itself. We have said that the IAF pay us for the after sales support of spares and maintenance on the basis of an assured 80 per cent serviceability of the fleet. If the Performance is Lesser Than What is Assured, a Penalty can be Imposed," Lockheed Martin's Director C-130J (India) Abhay Paranjape said.

The IAF's two IL-76 squadrons and five AN-32 squadrons have been besieged with poor serviceability record of Less Than 50 per cent, meaning the fleet was available to the Air Force for less than half their intended utilisation and a huge shortfall in their assigned tasks and performance, mainly due to non-availability of spares and inadequate maintenance.

In fact, India's government auditors have slammed the IAF in their 2007 report, observing that against a 75 per cent serviceability level when the AN-32 was procured in 1985, the actual rate ranged between 47 per cent and 51 per cent.

The Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India also noted that the number of aircraft on ground was also high, between 24 per cent to 33 per cent, indicating that the required number of aircraft were not in ready-to-fly condition.

"High levels of un-serviceability indicated that repair and maintenance capabilities at wings and repair depots were inadequate," the CAG report had said, adding that actual flying tasks fell significantly short of the task prescribed by the government, ranging between 49 and 59 per cent.

These problems, caused mainly due to Inadequate Spares from Russian Manufacturers, had led India to sign an after-sales agreement with Moscow last year under which a commitment was sought on supplies and maintenance of the Russian-origin equipment with Indian armed forces.

In the case of C-130Js though, Lockheed Martin has given a commitment in their 2007 contract with India to provide a three-year after-sales support. But since the aircraft would be with India for At Least 40 to 50 Years, the US company was looking at a long-term arrangement for sustaining the aircraft for its entire life time.

"After the First Three Years of product and service support, we want to partner India on a long-term basis to sustain the C-130Js for its entire lifetime. If not the entire lifespan, at least for the next 20 years," Paranjape said.

Lockheed Martin's Deputy Vice President Business Development-Global Sustainment Thomas Wetherall noted that the onus of the fleet's performance in the first three years after delivery was on the company itself.

"In the first three years, we will test the sustainment requirement of the IAF's C-130J fleet to prepare a long-term after-sales support package," Wetherall told a group of visiting Indian journalists.

The package being worked out would be on a turn-key basis, with the fuel and crew from the IAF and the rest of the sustainment commitments from Lockheed Martin.

"We are encouraging the IAF to take up sustainment packages we have worked with the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia with whom we have a over 20-year commitment," he said.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 31 Mar 2010 17:49

Air Marshal Karnik to take over as Director General (Inspection and Safety)

Air Marshal Ajay Shriniwas Karnik will on April 1 take over as Director General (Inspection and Safety) at Air Headquarters in RK Puram.

An alumnus of National Defence Academy Khadakvasla, he was commissioned into the fighter stream of the IAF in Jun 1972.

Air Marshal Karnik has flown over 3000 hours on fighter aircraft like MiG-21 Bis and MiG-29.

A fighter combat leader and a qualified flying instructor, he is also an alumnus of Air War College, University of United States Air Force (USAF), Montgomery, USA.

Having trained in the erstwhile USSR on MiG-29, Karnik went on to command a prestigious MiG-29 Squadron. He has also commanded important operational Air Force bases in the Western Desert Sector and the Western Coastal Region of India.

Air Marshal Karnik has a vast experience in operational flying, training, Command and Staff appointments, as he has served as Head of Training Team (Air) and Senior Instructor at the premier tri-services Defence Services Staff College (DSSC), Wellington, and Air Officer Commanding, Maritime Air Operations, Mumbai.

He has also served as Senior Air Staff Officer (SASO) Eastern Air Command (EAC), Shillong.

The President of India has awarded him Ati Vishist Seva Medal and Vayu Sena Medal for his distinguished service of very high order.

Air Marshal Karnik is presently Senior Air Staff Officer (SASO) at Western Air Command. (ANI)

Hes got a lot of work ahead of him...

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 31 Mar 2010 18:25

Lockheed asks IAF to pay for after-sales service

"We have offered India a sustainment package for the six C-130Js on the basis of performance of the fleet itself. We have said that the IAF pay us for the after sales support of spares and maintenance on the basis of an assured 80 per cent serviceability of the fleet. If the performance is lesser than what is assured, a penalty can be imposed," Lockheed Martin's Director C-130J (India) Abhay Paranjape said.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 31 Mar 2010 19:52

^^^A classic case of the Indian media messing up content and headline..

In fact American vendors will expose the services to a very different level of servicing and after sales support systems..A far cry from the Russian experience...An OEM commiting to maintain defined levels of serviceability - acting as a partner to the user/buyer...Will also hopefully inculcate some of these attributes in Indian companies..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 31 Mar 2010 20:55

somnath wrote:^^^A classic case of the Indian media messing up content and headline..

In fact American vendors will expose the services to a very different level of servicing and after sales support systems..A far cry from the Russian experience...An OEM commiting to maintain defined levels of serviceability - acting as a partner to the user/buyer...Will also hopefully inculcate some of these attributes in Indian companies..

Yeah, right.

Happy hunting grounds for the CIA and whatnot.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2010 21:02

perhaps we should wait till the amrikis actually start providing 'a very different level of servicing and after sales support' before we start making fanboyish statements about them ?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 31 Mar 2010 21:13

Rahul M wrote:perhaps we should wait till the amrikis actually start providing 'a very different level of servicing and after sales support' before we start making fanboyish statements about them ?

What a weird thought, strange kind of thinking I must say.

----
On a diff note...

Meanwhile I remember Air Marshal Karnik as great Squash player!! Also as Wg Cdr Karnik, CO 1st Supersonic's.

Great man, great officer. Congratulations Sir.

Ashish J · Post by **Ashish J** » 31 Mar 2010 22:48

Interesting Read...

Hindustan Aeronautics' sales up 10 percent this fiscal

http://sify.com/finance/hindustan-aeron ... bahcd.html

State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) earned Rs.11,415 crore in sales this fiscal (2009-10), registering a 10 percent growth over the last financial year at Rs.10,373 crore, the company said Wednesday.

According to provisional figures released here, the defence behemoth posted Rs.2,617 crore in profit before tax as against Rs.2,335 crore last fiscal, a growth of 12 percent year-on-year (YoY).

Though gross profit has modestly improved by 12 percent this fiscal as against 7.9 percent last fiscal, sales have declined to 10 percent from 20 percent last fiscal.

Net profit for the fiscal will be declared when the accounts are audited by Sept 2010.

Net profit was Rs.1,740 crore last fiscal.

'The order book has touched Rs.12,000 crore with new bids for domestic and export projects. An interim dividend of Rs.300 crore has been declared for the fiscal under review,' the Navaratna company said in a statement here.

We have also inducted a new military variant of the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH Mk III), with an indigenous Shakti engine for the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Indian Army for high altitude operations,' a HAL official said.

The armed variant (ALH Mk-IV) of the ALH is undergoing weapons trials.

The company is in the process of designing and developing a light utility helicopter (LUH) in the two-six tonne category.

In the fixed wing category, the company received follow-on order valued at Rs.6,180 crore for the Intermediary Jet Trainer (IJT) from the IAF. Its prototypes are integrated with the new Russian engine AL-551.

During the year, HAL also secured an order valued at Rs.3,100 crore from the IAF to upgrade its Jaguar fleet.

'Plans are underway to develop a new basic turboprop trainer to replace the ageing HPT-32 aircraft with the services,' the company added.

Interesting updates about IJT and Dhruv WSI

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 31 Mar 2010 23:26

[quote="Ashish J"
Net profit was Rs.1,740 crore last fiscal.

During the year, HAL also secured an order valued at Rs.3,100 crore from the IAF to upgrade its Jaguar fleet.

[/quote]

Is this DARIN III upgrade ?

K

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2010 23:29

yes saar.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 31 Mar 2010 23:40

Rahul M wrote:yes saar.

I think this is a fairly major upgrade. I do not remember the details. Rahul can you give us the details fo DARIN III upgrade. I believe there is a lot of Israeli and Indian electronics. I also think it can carry a LDP, Litening, along with 1/2 LGBs.

K

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Apr 2010 00:13

> EL/M-2032 radar throughout the fleet (not just the jag IMs which would in turn see the agave radar replaced)

> matra magic to be replaced by the ASRAAM short range A2A missile giving it a decent boost in self-defence. the medium range derby missile can also be integrated without too much problem, that has already happened on the navy SHARs. if done it will give the jags a very significant self-escort capability. in that case they will also gain some flexibility in mission planning as ground hugging flights may not be a must for survival since they will be much less vulnerable to enemy CAPs.

> a new Open Systems Architecture Mission Computer (OSAMC) which will be used in mirage upg as well. by design (open arch) this would make it easier to integrate future munitions and sensors.
>

DARIN-3 does have 2 MFDs (versus 1 on DARIN-2 and MiG-27 first upgrade), plus an extra smaller MFD for engine functions etc & an integrated autopilot.

(quoting someone hoping he doesn't mind.

)

> a new RLG based INS from DRDO, variants of which keep popping up all the time in various projects.

> although it hasn't been explicitly mentioned, the across the board avionics developed by DRDO will very likely find a place in the DARIN 3, the R118 MSWS(multi sensor warning system) for example, a development over the tarang Mk1 RWR. other sensors and EW systems can be integrated as and when required.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 01 Apr 2010 01:14

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 01 Apr 2010 01:22

Edit: Proverbial foot in the mouth. Removing evidence of having expressed ignorance

Hat tip Misraji

Misraji · Post by **Misraji** » 01 Apr 2010 03:09

^^^

Link to Ka-226 better image.

Regards,
Ashish.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 01 Apr 2010 10:06

Rahul M wrote:perhaps we should wait till the amrikis actually start providing 'a very different level of servicing and after sales support' before we start making fanboyish statements about them ?

Nothing "fanboyish"...The report talks about a public (and seemingly firm) offer from LM on the subject...Dont think we have ever gotten such "productivity linked" maintenance offers from any vendor in the past..One has to only compare that with the sort of maintenance support we get from the Russians, or Ukrainians, or even the Brits...

The American defence supply chain management systems are by far the very best in the world, in scale, complexity as well as productivity - anyone who has used Amercian equipment vouches for that...

chetak wrote: Yeah, right.

Happy hunting grounds for the CIA and whatnot.

If that happens, whose fault is it? Ours (for not able to ring fence maintenance personnel from operational details?), or theirs (for trying?

)?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 01 Apr 2010 12:58

X-post

India to Buy A-50EI AWACS from Russia

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has begun negotiating for nine more A-50EI aircraft from Russia. India aims to acquire three of the A-50EI aircraft under the main contract and have another six in an option.

Awesome! (if true...)

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Apr 2010 14:45

Wasn't the current contract itself 3+3( if required)?

Why the new contract without the option of full 6 of the first contract exercised?

Great news if true though!!!

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 01 Apr 2010 14:49

shukla wrote:X-post

India to Buy A-50EI AWACS from Russia

Awesome! (if true...)

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shukla · Post by **shukla** » 01 Apr 2010 15:33

I agree.. this news report needs to be treated with caution. Found the news on the website to be quite reliable in the past but wonder what the moderators (RahulM) think of the website..

Though I must add that this is not the first news report of such a contract. Previously news appeared on these sites.. (back in jan 2010) citing Interfax news agency..

http://news.webindia123.com/news/articl ... 30217.html

http://news.chillx.com/world/news/india ... -50-awacs/

Dint bother posting it back then due to similar 'reliability of website' issues.. thought indiadefenceonline is reasonably reliable.. Will just wait for mods to respond or official confirmation on the matter..

Until then.. lets just hope its true..