India-US News and Discussion

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 12 Jun 2010 19:02

One only has to read about MMS' past, his education, his early career, his big break, and his trajectory and policies to understand that 'Agent of Influence' is the most charitable thing that can be said about him.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Jun 2010 19:30

^ He spent all his intellectual farmation years 1957-1971 in Londanistan. What else can one expect?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 Jun 2010 20:03

Pranav wrote:
Sanku wrote:This is how serious discussions go downhill into conspiracy theories.

All but perhaps 2-3 people on BRF support EVMs (including me) we are all agents of the west?

Talk about self goals.
Hmm ... I haven't seen too many people supporting EVMs, apart from you and 2-3 others.

Pranav, start a poll.....

As regards being agents .... no offense intended, but there is also a "useful idiot" category.

Sorry to puncture your balloon buddy, but you are living in a nation full of useful idiots.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Jun 2010 20:21

That's true - India has a vegetative surplus

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 12 Jun 2010 22:00

Sanku wrote:
Sorry to puncture your balloon buddy, but you are living in a nation full of useful idiots.

speak for yourself ... not for all of BRF or the nation

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 12 Jun 2010 23:28

^^Would do you well, to take your own advice there.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Jun 2010 23:36

Is it a big favor if I request not to pollute every thread with EVM stuff? We have a dedicated thread for such discussions. Even if it is indirectly relevant what is that we are going to gain by saying EVM fraud, EVM fraud 108 times in every thread.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 12 Jun 2010 23:48

Raja Bose wrote:^^Would do you well, to take your own advice there.

Hmm ... what is that about?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Jun 2010 00:00

Muppalla wrote:Is it a big favor if I request not to pollute every thread with EVM stuff? We have a dedicated thread for such discussions. Even if it is indirectly relevant what is that we are going to gain by saying EVM fraud, EVM fraud 108 times in every thread.

See, if a government is acting on priorities other than the interests of the people (and there is such a perception), then the manner in which governments come to power becomes the most critical strategic and political issue. It's like asking a colonized people not to talk about independence, when lack of independence is their central problem.

But anyway, we can move on ....

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Jun 2010 00:40

Pranav wrote: See, if the GoI is acting on priorities other than the interests of the people (and there is such a perception), then the manner in which governments come to power becomes the most critical strategic and political issue, which cannot be evaded. It's like asking a colonized people not to talk about independence, when lack of independence is their central problem.

But anyway, we can move on ....

This is not to insult you or disrespect you but just understand. I do not have any hard feelings towards and I still read many of your posts. Hope you take this constructively and with sense of humor.

Let me write why I have to make such a request. You made that point several times. In fact during elections, you almost claimed that entire AP is EJ land and hence every soul from there is an EJ so ECIL being in EJ land EVMs are all suspect. If I go by your logic and expand with your zeal, I am an EJ because I am from that place and Tirupati does not have Lord Balaji but some lord EJ because you never know and it is an EJ land and they may have already done it too. I understand the essence of your message that time too and nothing personal there.

You are giving an impression that you alway look for an opportunity to bring EVM stuff everywhere. There is no real issue in writing about your views but it will be boringly repetitive. We have "India Interests", "future strategy..." and a dedicated EVM thread for you to write about various strategies to fight against EVM usage and also a new fight for India's Independence again.

It almost gives the reader a message that all these threads/topics/forums, books, lives are useless as a fundamental shift has already taken place. First of all let us stop breathing and solve EVMs. Same zeal is not there for any organization including who are opposing the EVMs in India but there are real people who are fighting for corrections.

It is almost like this:

We have to understand current affairs. Whether the folks that are in power came by stealing or not stealing, we still should have interest to see what they are doing and how events are moulding. From that perspective, let us discuss the threads with what they are meant for. Just my 2 cents.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Jun 2010 00:49

Thanks Muppalla, you said it, better than I ever could.

There is concern, and then there is "sky is falling on our head, we are doomed, doomed"

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Jun 2010 00:54

Anderson escape haunts Cong upper echelon

There appears to be a great deal of unease at the higher levels of the Congress party over Warren Anderson's escape from India with even key allies working the phones to their friends in the party wondering what is going on in the ruling party.

A senior leader described the atmosphere in the party as similar to a gang war and said the issue appeared to be gathering serious momentum. Another leader said it is interesting that while Rajiv Gandhi is being attacked and accused openly of working under American pressure, the PMO is absolutely quiet, not saying a word though it is expected that the government would have more facts at its disposal and would be able to add to the ongoing debate.

While Arjun Singh who has already met Sonia Gandhi continues to remain quiet, merely threatening to speak at the appropriate time, it has been left to the party to defend Rajiv Gandhi, with party spokesperson Jayanti Natarajan categorically denying that the former PM had any role to play in the decision to let Warren Anderson leave India. The party has made it clear that a Group Of Ministers has been put in place and this GOM would use all the resources at its command of the government to find out the truth and bring it before the people. Natarajan went to the extent of saying this must be done, even if it means reopening the case. Otherwise she said, 26 years have passed and most of the facts are not available with the party.

Interestingly, even as Congress leaders are speaking out, either for or against, with former bureaucrats and others also adding their bit to what is known, an English news channel flashed a declassified CIA document which states that it was Rajiv Gandhi who ordered Arjun Singh to arrange Anderson's departure from the country under pressure from the united states. But only half of that document has been declassified.The first half which they claim deals with the United States is blank while only the part about India has been declassified. Congress party insiders find this very strange.

Some Congress leaders candidly admit that Warren Anderson's escape is not a people's issue nor is it an issue which can take away votes but it has suddenly become a big issue within the Congress party, particularly in the wake of the prime minister's recent remarks clearly spelling out that he is not ready to give up the office of the prime minister as he still has a great deal of work to complete.

Folks may call analyzing such things as CT but these two paragraphs are real interesting and worth deciphering them. It is short of calling that US is controlling everything that is India and MMS is the the one who US likes to see in continuity. It is like they are releasing such and such info to preempt any changes from Rajmata or other part of Congress.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Jun 2010 01:12

R-Man:

Regarding India's leverage over USA, sorry to sound pessimistic, but the only leverage India could possibly exercise would be a nationalist govt at the center (not a dictator) that has the trust of the people; and who can say NO to USA. What are the chances of that given the current realities on the ground?

Right now, US is in complete control of the situation in the sub continent: TSPA serve as the private security guards and chowkidaars for USA, MMS serves as the head peon/clerk pushing through papers and documents framed in Washington; while the billion or so resourceful SDREs at the mercy of US are doing what they can to make ends meet and make something of themselves.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 13 Jun 2010 02:07

Is not supporting someone blindly for just having Indian connection similar to people voting on caste line blindly in India?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Jun 2010 07:18

Muppalla wrote: Let me write why I have to make such a request. You made that point several times. In fact during elections, you almost claimed that entire AP is EJ land and hence every soul from there is an EJ so ECIL being in EJ land EVMs are all suspect. If I go by your logic and expand with your zeal, I am an EJ because I am from that place and Tirupati does not have Lord Balaji but some lord EJ because you never know and it is an EJ land and they may have already done it too. I understand the essence of your message that time too and nothing personal there.

Since you bring it up ... that is a misrepresentation. It was a general remark about ways in which key personnel may be motivated to serve subversive interests. There is a context of control of Church organizations by foreign political elites ... Whether such operations would be easier in an area where evangelist organizations have a significant influence. That was the social-political context which was being explored.

and a dedicated EVM thread for you to write about various strategies to fight against EVM usage and also a new fight for India's Independence again. ...From that perspective, let us discuss the threads with what they are meant for. Just my 2 cents.

That dedicated thread has served its purpose well in discussing threadbare the technical issues. There are also strategic, political and geopolitical dimensions. People may take for granted that there is a mechanism to elect representative governments. Dubious premises are liable to lead to dubious conclusions.

But yes, I am taking note of your general point, will try to take it into account

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Jun 2010 10:27

Folks are very delicately skirting around the issue of the major negative role played by the judiciary in the bhopal case.

The supreme court is meant to fiercely protect the rights of its citizens and not denude them of basic human dignity.

In particular just one individual, possessed of a truly spectacular quality of dermal fortitude, seems to have derogated the crisis, downplayed the seriousness and scuttled the prosecution's case by broad based snap judgments and bulldozed his way out of a review petition and merrily waltzed his way right into to a cushy sinecure for life in an institution that came into being solely on the basis of his questionable acts of commission and omission.

The question is not why anderson was let go but why this individual is not being taken to task. No extradition required!! Vote banks yet again??

We are missing the woods for the trees!

We are truly a banana republic.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Jun 2010 10:31

Never, ever again. Because we’re worth it

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Never-eve ... 56820.aspx

Pretty good article by Vir Sanghvi.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Jun 2010 10:33

Muppalla wrote:
Anderson escape haunts Cong upper echelon

Some Congress leaders candidly admit that Warren Anderson's escape is not a people's issue nor is it an issue which can take away votes but it has suddenly become a big issue within the Congress party, particularly in the wake of the prime minister's recent remarks clearly spelling out that he is not ready to give up the office of the prime minister as he still has a great deal of work to complete.[/b]
Folks may call analyzing such things as CT but these two paragraphs are real interesting and worth deciphering them. It is short of calling that US is controlling everything that is India and MMS is the the one who US likes to see in continuity. It is like they are releasing such and such info to preempt any changes from Rajmata or other part of Congress.

Wow! I posted this http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 66#p883466 just a week ago

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Jun 2010 10:40

abhishek_sharma wrote:Never, ever again. Because we’re worth it

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Never-eve ... 56820.aspx

Pretty good article by Vir Sanghvi.

That article is best described in these two comments.

Prasoon Choudhary [Moderator] 0 minutes ago
Vir Congressvi has spoken again clearly and effectively for his masters. I hope the govt will soon recognize his services and awards him Bharat Ratan and a Raj Shabha seat. A special ministry should be created just for him it should be called Ministry of Propaganda.
I was just waiting for Vir to write on Bhopal. I was 100 % sure that he will come with interesting arguments to defend weakness, carelessness and corruptness of Rajiv Gandhi just like he has done in past on Boforce, 84 riots etc. Vir should have been defense lawyer, he is wasting his skills in media.

Puspraj Prasad Yadav [Moderator] 19 minutes ago
Some of the points raised by Mr. Shaghvi is right but I would like to put more shades on these.
1. P.V. Narsimha Rao government is blamed for the slow progress or neglect towards to case for the Bhopal tragedy.But it was a congress government and Mr. Manmohan Sigh was its Finance Minister and lots of other were also part of Ministry.Rao is dead now and we all know he became political untouchable in the Congress itself in his last days.The other members are not uttering a word.Why these people are so much silent let be Kamal Nath and Arjun Singh.
2. Rajiv Gandhi once said "When a big tree falls ,the earth is shaken" regarding the killing of Indira and subsequent riots.But in the Bhopal 25,000 people were died( oops),they were massacred by corporate greed.But nothing happened till date.And Anderson was scot free in the state plane.Who provided these things.It was Rajiv's government in center and CM was Mr Arjun Singh.What the shame on these people.Arjun Singh is still alive.But he is so much gutless and bereft of morality that he can't say anything about the circumstances.May be he is thinking that he might be able to get some posts or perks By Madam Sonia in his last days by keeping mum.
3. We are seeing many stories regarding Mr Rahul Gandhi that he is heir apparent for the Congress in the coming years, "The yuvraj in waiting to be coronated as king".But its amazing that he has nothing to say on these tragedy. In fact the whole Gandhi family is silents on this massacre.He is showing himself with the dalits in UP and else where.trying to be champions of them.But I guess those who were killed or maimed also belonged to same caste or lower rung people.Why Mr. Rahul is not with them or not doing anything for them. Its known that he has power without authority.In fact full Gandhi family has the power.But they keep mum on crucial issues.This double standards is not going to be accepted by us.They keep mum because Rajiv was directly involved in all.Whether it is Boforse case or Bhopal tragedy or Shah Bano case or Ayodhya.
Congress is hellbent on destroying our motherland.Even they don't have remorse.
Such a shameless party and its politicians and its people in Media.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Jun 2010 10:43

abhishek_sharma wrote:Never, ever again. Because we’re worth it

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Never-eve ... 56820.aspx

Pretty good article by Vir Sanghvi.

How the reference to US and Ombaba keeps coming in the article as if US policies are the same for India.

In the US, a shrewd politician like Barack Obama has played on this sentiment by first making the attack on Wall Street a major feature of his campaign and now by going for BP over the oil spill with unprecedented viciousness.
Mainstream Indian politicians are reluctant to follow Obama’s example for fear of scaring away foreign investors. But educated Indians echo Obama’s sentiments. We recognise that global corporations do not always care about the environment or about deaths caused by industrial negligence.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 13 Jun 2010 11:13

Acharya wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Never, ever again. Because we’re worth it

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Never-eve ... 56820.aspx

Pretty good article by Vir Sanghvi.
How the reference to US and Ombaba keeps coming in the article as if US policies are the same for India.
In the US, a shrewd politician like Barack Obama has played on this sentiment by first making the attack on Wall Street a major feature of his campaign and now by going for BP over the oil spill with unprecedented viciousness.
Mainstream Indian politicians are reluctant to follow Obama’s example for fear of scaring away foreign investors. But educated Indians echo Obama’s sentiments. We recognise that global corporations do not always care about the environment or about deaths caused by industrial negligence.

I was watching NDTV debate on this Bhopal issue and some one raised the point how Obama is shouting on daily basis from depth of his lungs at BP and other corporate honchos. At the same time not even statement of simple sympathy has been issue on his behalf over Bhopal issue.

Barkha Dutt who was happily jumping on Nov 4th 2008 agreed that world has two standards, one for itself and one for India. I just hope this memory doesn't fades away when media, babus and politicians get carried away when he visits in Nov.

Sadly, everything will be forgotten by then.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Jun 2010 11:25

For a few dollars less

Barkha Dutt

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 56388.aspx

We know that most ministers in the government backed Tata’s proposal to let Indian industry lead the clean-up of the site. While competitive activism should not stop that from happening, isn’t there any value placed on the outrage of the Indian people and the rights of the victims? What happened to good, old fashioned moral responsibility? Or is this what they mean, these days, when they talk of Corporate Social Responsibility? Frankly, if this is what it takes for India to ‘shine’, we’d rather live in the ‘dark’ ages.

This is pretty good too.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 13 Jun 2010 11:37

I am too young to know about the Bhopal accident, what was exactly Warren Anderson's role there?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Jun 2010 11:46

The main bone of contention is that a safety audit in 1982 identified 30 safety issues in the Union Carbide Plant in Bhopal and WestVirginea. But Union Carbide deceided that liability in India will not be much so fixed the safety issues only for the West Virginia Plant.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Jun 2010 12:04

Hey Hey Ho, MMS has got to go.

MMS is the worst PM India has ever had, Deve Gowda notwithstanding. He is better off retiring with his daughter in USA, and perhaphs do more justice to his talents as a "South Asia" advisor to US govt.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Jun 2010 12:05

How come despite getting arrest warrant from Court and finally getting him declared Proclaimed Offender, CBI never issued RCN against Anderson? Certainly the family and Arjun had given their blessings to anderson and now everyone is jumping to blame game, judiciary , babudom, and politicians.
Now Crowley says he would give a fair consideration if India makes extradition request.This is nothing but attempt to deflect the criticism of double standard and save MMS till Nooklar liablty bill is cleared. One shudders to think what would happen if another Chernobyl type accident takes place.

http://origin-indiatoday.intoday.in/sit ... on-us.html

Days after ruling out any 'new inquiries' against Union Carbide in the wake of the Bhopal court verdict, the US on Saturday said it is prepared to give "fair consideration" to any fresh request from India for extradition of the company's former chief Warren Anderson over the 1984 gas disaster.

"We have an extradition treaty with India. And if India makes an extradition request to us, we will give it fair consideration," State Department spokesman P J Crowley said.

If the government of India makes such a request, the US will "carefully evaluate" it, he told reporters in response to a question.

Crowley, however, said he was not in a position to verify whether the US had already received such requests or whether it had responded to them, arguing that all such issues were confidential.

Is it the same way US would carefully consider extradition request as it is doing in case of DCH?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Jun 2010 12:15

Carl_T wrote:I am too young to know about the Bhopal accident, what was exactly Warren Anderson's role there?

That bloody pig along with other piglets in india was actually the driver of a vehicle whose break, he knew, had gone kaput.
Now DOW has got that vehicle and wants again to drive in India. Logic, too many poor and expandable .experimentable people without any liability.

Actually the verdict has surprised saner voices in USA , nobody expected the punishment of this great magnitude would be given under IPC for an simple act of industrial negligence. Therefore USA is having second thoughts, why not allow anderson to server two years in India in a MMS sponsored guest house converted to jail and financed by grave looking pranab. and carry on business as usual.

In fact another bomsel is going to be dropped when Kasihka report is released on 17th june. All misdeeds of earlier kongress regime is coming back to haunt high and fossilized mighty. Let us not forget that it was Kongress worker who had the distinction of first hizak of IA plane and were suitably rewarded.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Jun 2010 13:30

CRamS wrote:Hey Hey Ho, MMS has got to go.

MMS is the worst PM India has ever had, Deve Gowda notwithstanding. He is better off retiring with his daughter in USA, and perhaphs do more justice to his talents as a "South Asia" advisor to US govt.

Be careful what you wish for - you may get it - and then we'll be gnashing our teeth at Yuvaraj.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Jun 2010 13:48

Pranav wrote:
Be careful what you wish for - you may get it - and then we'll be gnashing our teeth at Yuvaraj.

MMS has been a total disaster. The reason I want him gone is because I am convinced beyond a shadow of doubt that he wants to gift away Kashmir to TSP to promote piss in "South Asia". Of course, he won't surrender Kashmir in broad daylinght, but he will gift it away in slow motion through joint love making with his long lost Paki cousins in Srinagar. A kind of surrender like how the UK goalkeeper gave away a goal to US in today's WC game; at least he did so by mistake; MMS wants to do it deliberately.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 13 Jun 2010 14:42

I am glad we have some future tellers on this forum.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 13 Jun 2010 14:55

excuse this OT....in some Telugu news channel..there was program about the predictions of a political astrologer from North India...
he says...UPA and MMS will face serious trouble by this year end and in August, some serious political events will occur, Rahul Baba will have to wait 10 yrs for PM post...

..

Okay now back to Indo-US discussions please

US fears Pak's elite will siphon-off aid

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Jun 2010 17:12

CRamS wrote:
Pranav wrote:
Be careful what you wish for - you may get it - and then we'll be gnashing our teeth at Yuvaraj.
MMS has been a total disaster. The reason I want him gone is because I am convinced beyond a shadow of doubt that he wants to gift away Kashmir to TSP to promote piss in "South Asia". Of course, he won't surrender Kashmir in broad daylinght, but he will gift it away in slow motion through joint love making with his long lost Paki cousins in Srinagar. A kind of surrender like how the UK goalkeeper gave away a goal to US in today's WC game; at least he did so by mistake; MMS wants to do it deliberately.

Replied to here: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 79#p887579

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 13 Jun 2010 21:18

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Jun 2010 21:46

This guy is a political hack and playing on emotions. The US already decided based on N Palkhivala's arguments that India is the best location to try the case. Now it cant be argued lets go back to US as that would be double jeopardy.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Jun 2010 00:55

http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2010/06/13/a- ... and-india/
A step forward for the US and India.

But the challenge now will be to turn these positive perceptions into common (or, at least, complementary) policies. And if the two sides want to take their relationship to the next level, they’ll need to demonstrate concrete progress in time for President Obama’s November 7 arrival in India.

Here are a few areas to watch:

Civil Nuclear Cooperation: ...

Afghanistan: ...

Pakistan: ...

China: ...

Trade: ...

Defense: ...

Public-Private Partnership: ...

Export Controls: ....

Finally, how far and in what ways will the two sides move toward a more global partnership?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 14 Jun 2010 02:19

Days after ruling out any 'new inquiries' against Union Carbide in the wake of the Bhopal court verdict, the US on Saturday said it is prepared to give "fair consideration" to any fresh request from India for extradition of the company's former chief Warren Anderson over the 1984 gas disaster.

Warren Anderson will never see the inside of an Indian jail. He has practically lived out his lifespan at 89 years old under protection of the US govt. That's the reason they are saying this now. They know he isn't going anywhere and will kick the bucket soon. So just drag it out in the courts while the administration considers and processes the extradition request for a couple more years till he croaks.

Now that India is becoming economically stronger, they don't want India to use him as an example of denying extradition request of criminals wanted by the US having done so themselves.

But don't kid yourself, he isn't going anywhere.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 14 Jun 2010 19:48

US places India on Tier Two Watch List for Human Trafficking

This is the seventh consecutive year that India has been placed in Tier Two Watch list of its annual report on human trafficking. The 10th annual Trafficking in Persons Report was released by the state department today. The report recommended that India strengthen central and state government law enforcement capacity to conduct intrastate and interstate law enforcement activities against labour trafficking (including bonded labour) and sex trafficking.

It also urged India to encourage state and district governments to file bonded labour cases under the appropriate criminal statutes to facilitate speedier justice and limit traffickers' opportunities for bail; encourage other states to establish Immoral Trafficking. The report said India is a source, destination, and transit country for men, women, and children subjected to trafficking in persons, specifically forced labour and commercial sexual exploitation.

It said the Indian government does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking; however, it is making significant efforts to do so, particularly with regard to the law enforcement response to sex trafficking. Despite these efforts, the Indian government has not demonstrated sufficient progress in its law enforcement, protection, or prevention efforts to address labour trafficking, particularly bonded labour; the report said explaining the reason why India has been placed in Tier Two of the Watch List.

Tier Two Watch List is a list of those countries whose governments do not fully comply with the Trafficking Victims Protection Acts's minimum standards, but are making significant efforts to bring themselves into compliance with those standards.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Jun 2010 20:11

CRamS wrote:Hey Hey Ho, MMS has got to go.

MMS is the worst PM India has ever had, Deve Gowda notwithstanding. He is better off retiring with his daughter in USA, and perhaphs do more justice to his talents as a "South Asia" advisor to US govt.

Leaders have a vision. MMS vision as he articulated in October 2009 is no doubt good Manmohan unveils vision of India 2020 and new South Asia. The 3 pillars he erects are:
1) Inclusive Growth
2) Composite Culture
3) Peaceful and forward looking neighborhood.

Plus, a 9-10% of economic growth. I quote the following from the above:

“First, that our challenges in nation building are primarily at home. And that these are best addressed by ensuring sustained and inclusive economic growth and development,” Manmohan Singh said at an annual leadership conclave organised by the Hindustan Times here.{not many would disagree here}

Putting domestic challenges like poverty and issues of economic and administrative reforms above external challenges, he said: “We do face external and global challenges. The global slowdown is a reality, rise of terrorism is also a reality and we have to face these challenges.”

“But I sincerely believe that they are nowhere as daunting as the ones we face at home,” he said. “If we get our house in order, if we can liberate each and every citizen of this free nation from the tyranny of poverty, ignorance and disease, there is no external challenge that we cannot overcome,” he stressed. {this is where several could disagree, a country cannot wait till it has achieved what he states, it has to simultaneously work both on the domestic and foreign fronts - that is why we have several ministries no. IMO his notion is deeply flawed one.}

Rejecting the clash of civilisations and sectarianism of all kinds, the prime minister said: “Freedom, democracy, pluralism and secularism go together. You cannot have one without the other.” {Agreed.}

Without naming Pakistan, the prime minister said India sincerely wished “to resolve all outstanding issues with our neighbours through dialogue and in the spirit of partnership and friendship that should rightly characterise our relations.” {A country can not cry peace!!! peace!!! peace!!! while the other cries war!!! war!!! war!!!. Vision has to take into account the current reality. Simple, "this is where we are, this is where we want to go, this is how we want to do it. IMO, MMS is not looking the ground reality here}

In a bid to allay the impression of rivalry with China, Manmohan Singh said there was enough space in the world to accommodate the growth and ambitions of India and China and underlined that the two countries have decided to maintain peace and tranquillity pending the resolution of the border dispute. {a good play, no point in jacking up hysteria, play it down and eventually win.}

He also stressed on a proactive leadership at the state and local level to translate India’s developmental aspirations into reality. “India cannot be built from Delhi alone. The focus of the debate on leadership for building a new India should, therefore, shift to the states,” he said.{Agreed.}

He comes off as a leader with some flaws on how to tackle external fronts. A good man who is ready to sacrifice on the foreign front until the domestic front is set right. Chankaya might disagree, unless MMS has an inner-Chankaya that we will never know. Thanks to him and Chidamabaram under the aegis of PVNR, the economic ball was set rolling in a positive direction 1991. Probably a lot more is to be done, but I think it is time the leadership focused (or at least think little more) about setting its sphere of influence in the region and around globe.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Jun 2010 21:01

SwamyG:

He comes across as a mere observer on India, not a leader of India. He talks like a CEO of a company, who only cares about the bottom line. A leader, of the size of India given its vast heritage & history, is supposed to articulate a nationalist vision, and what unique attributes India brings to the world. Vajpaee was on the right track until he turned Hajpayee under the influence of "my friend Strobe & Co".

Providing roti, kapda, aur makaan are important; even tin pots like Lallu Prasad Yadav or why, even Hafeez Saeed can articulate this necessity across all of "South Asia". I am sure the same thing could be said by a London or Boston liberal about India; no wonder MMS is so popular among that crowd. A nationalist leader connects more deelpy with his people and brings out their pride in who they are. Some examples: Ronald regan, Margaret Thatcher, All German Chancellors, Ho Chi Min, Dong Xu Peng (sp?) etc.

And this constant drumbeat about India's & TSP's destinies are linked, India cannot progress withpout piss with Pakistan, India will do all it takes to build trust with TSP, India will meet TSP more than halfway. All this cowardly "South Asian" nonsense makes one throw up when TSP constantly talks about war over water or some other imaginary grievance. And not to mention thumbing its nose and daring India to a fight after every terror attack.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 14 Jun 2010 21:13

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