Indian Interests

munna · Post by **munna** » 15 Jun 2010 01:54

Rudradev wrote: Arrey if he is Jadhav how can he be a "Dalit" writer? Yadavas count as Dalits these days or what?

"DDM" no longer even deserves the first "D" (for "Desi".) Any Desi would know that a Jadhav is no Dalit. Now they are only "Dork Media."

He is a "Dalit" writer and very well known individual within the Economic profession in India. Jadhav is an old RBI hand and has served the country well. He is a Neo-Buddhist (ie Ambedkarite) and does not belong to the category of useless rabble rousers. In short not a closet x,y, or z.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 15 Jun 2010 02:12

I have heard of him. I am just wondering why someone named "Jadhav" (="Yadava", an OBC) is being described as a "Dalit" (which, AFAIK, refers specifically to SCs.) Or is the word "Dalit" now being expanded to embrace more than SCs?

munna · Post by **munna** » 15 Jun 2010 02:24

Rudradev wrote:I have heard of him. I am just wondering why someone named "Jadhav" (="Yadava", an OBC) is being described as a "Dalit" (which, AFAIK, refers specifically to SCs.) Or is the word "Dalit" now being expanded to embrace more than SCs?

"Jadhavs" and "Jatavs" are fairly well known SC categories they should not be confused with "Yadav"-although in some places it may mean merely a difference of pronunciation and hence "Jadhav==Yadav". In fact the "Yadavs" take huge affront if one confuses the other with "them". Its really crazy.
PS: There is also a phenomena whereby a lot of SCs write their surname differently. So it may be that too

Gilles · Post by **Gilles** » 15 Jun 2010 03:30

pgbhat wrote:I think we lack a Central Asia thread.
Posting here.
116 Indians stranded in Kyrgyzstan

There are massacres taking place there, the ethnic cleansing kind. This is clearly in India's sphere of influence. Is India going to get involved or stay on the sidelines as the two superpowers decide how they will deal (or not deal) with it ?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 15 Jun 2010 04:36

Violence unabated in Kyrgyzstan

Over a hundred Indian medical students stranded in Osh and Jalal-Abad were reportedly safe and waiting anxiously for a special aircraft from India to take them back home on Monday afternoon. Evacuation of 15 students from Jalal-Abad would be an especially challenging job, as the city was situated 60 km from the Osh airport and riots continued in the area.

Typically what kind of unit will provide security for this kind of evac? Any mujahids care to enlighten?
78 Indians evacuated, many stranded in Kyrgyzstan

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 15 Jun 2010 12:26

munna wrote:
Rudradev wrote:I have heard of him. I am just wondering why someone named "Jadhav" (="Yadava", an OBC) is being described as a "Dalit" (which, AFAIK, refers specifically to SCs.) Or is the word "Dalit" now being expanded to embrace more than SCs?
"Jadhavs" and "Jatavs" are fairly well known SC categories they should not be confused with "Yadav"-although in some places it may mean merely a difference of pronunciation and hence "Jadhav==Yadav". In fact the "Yadavs" take huge affront if one confuses the other with "them". Its really crazy.
PS: There is also a phenomena whereby a lot of SCs write their surname differently. So it may be that too

A good example of the havoc the British introduction of castes played in India.

Jadhavs and Jatavs are remants of Deogiri Yadavs who were disenfranchised post the Islamic plunder, they also formed the backbone of Shivaji's Maratha armies.

Brits turned them into something strange.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 16 Jun 2010 03:43

Stranded Indian runs into rude embassy official

Official: Come on! Did we not help you? Did you not get you out of there?

Student: No, sir, you haven't helped us. Don't tell us that you fed us for free -- we want something substantial done.

Official: Why don't you call after 10. The embassy will open at 10.

Student: We had no place to sleep last night.

Official: What I can do if you don't have a place to sleep?

Student: Why has the Indian government kept you?

Official: Indian government? I'll tell you why they have kept me -- tell me your name.

Student: They have kept you to help us.

Official: Yeah, yeah -- tell me your name at least.

Student: Is this a way to talk, sir? You are asking my name in this tone.

Official: Okay, tell me the name of all those whom I refused to help.

Student: Sir, we are just requesting you to help us at least listen to us.

The External Affairs Ministry denies allegations that it didn't do enough to help Indians in Kyrgyzstan. "Every single student was provided dinner last night (Monday) and breakfast this morning by the Indian embassy," it said in a statement.

Agencies add 116 Indians evacuated trapped in the riot-hit former Soviet republic. The stranded Indians included 15 students in Jalalabad and 99 students, a professor and a businessman in Osh.

In the worst ethnic violence in decades, at least 124 people have been killed and more than 1,685 wounded in southern Kyrgyzstan,

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 16 Jun 2010 18:55

Rudradev wrote:I have heard of him. I am just wondering why someone named "Jadhav" (="Yadava", an OBC) is being described as a "Dalit" (which, AFAIK, refers specifically to SCs.) Or is the word "Dalit" now being expanded to embrace more than SCs?

Many people have taken up new surnames in past 100 years to avoid the tag of lower caste. We can find brahmin surnames among dalits as well. It is funny, isn't it. With turn of tide, everybody wants to be of lower caste now. The 96-clan marathas are only forward castes. But there is a trick. If they happen to show farming as their occupation, they were called as "kunbi" and were categorised as OBC. Kunbi is similar to Patil/Patel in social standing, although they themselves deny so.

There isn't much difference between Kunbis, Patils and 96-clan marathas, its the matter of convenience onlee. For purpose of education, many of these people stand in queue of OBC. for marriage purposes, they try to pose as 96-clan marathas. Its slightly confusing, but then what isn't in Indian caste-system.

Regarding narendra jadhav, he is a dalit. very educated man. I guess this surname "Jadhav" was assumed by his forefathers no more than 3-4 generations before him.

@ Sanku ji,

as for forming the backbone of Shivaji's army, very few 96-clan marathas supported Shivaji and later Peshwas. It was the lower-castes and brahmins who supported them the most. Shinde (a Patil/Patel/Patidar/Kunbi) and Holkar (a Shephard enlisted as a Nomadic tribe in modern MH) were Peshwa's chief spearheads. The "elite 96-clanners" like Gaekwad of Baroda and Bhonsale of Nagpur and Pawar of Dhar were brooding in their palaces when Peshwas along with Shindes and Holkars were conquering Peshawar and fighting Panipat.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 16 Jun 2010 19:57

Useless piece of information.Jadhav is a caste hindu surname in maharashtra,jathav is sc caste in the vicinity of mathura,UP.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 16 Jun 2010 22:12

Stranded Indians in Kyrgyzstan can 'borrow' free tickets

"In accordance with established consular procedures, the Indian Mission in Bishkek has offered to buy tickets for those students who may be facing temporary financial difficulties," Prakash said, replying to reporters' queries on the ethnic violence in the Central Asian nation that has claimed over 120 lives.

He said in cases where students wanted to return to India for their summer vacations but had financial difficulties due to their sudden evacuation, they would have to hand over their passports to the Indian Mission in Bishkek to avail an emergency certificate and a one-way ticket to India.

"The individual, who avails of the facility, repays the money to the government in due course and gets his passport back. These are the government rules," he said.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 17 Jun 2010 01:38

Shyam Saran: India needs to have sharper focus. New Delhi should support the move to expand the East Asia Summit to include the US and Russia. Shyam Saran. June 16, 2010, 0:43 IST

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Jun 2010 03:14

Atri ji,
I am mildly protesting recognizing the term "Dalit". We can talk of the "Dalit" movement, Dalit" activism, but not "he is a Dalit". Dalit is a created category of the modern period - an invention which has no connection to any real term ever used to denote a whole "people" like a "caste". It is a politically created term, deliberately not linked to any caste - because its coiners were aware that focusing on particular "repressed" castes would make the political mobilization problematic with the intra-caste fights and counter claims of hierarchies would show up. Some of them might even have not been good examples of "suppression" and repression at various periods of history.

We cannot recognize and thereby reinforce claims of further distinctions. Let us specifically focus on it as a created political movement and not any real social category. In India politically created abstract categories have a tendency of turning themselves into hereditary claims of a separate identity.

As for Shinde - I am friends with one who is very "active". He says he fell in "spell" when we first met at some time point. However Bhavi hates me thoroughly. The reason, I asked for my favourite old Marathi dish of jowar bread and coriander chutney [ I got fond of it when I stayed with not so well off "friends" in Narmada Parikrama] and she replied that it was the food of the "lower castes". I was younger then with a rather sharper tongue which could lash out instantly, and bhavi was subjected to a half hour lecture on how that food could be taken as holy food because it maintained the bulk of Shivaji's army. She has been angry ever since - as much as the hubby remains close.

Just keeps me wondering as to the real dynamics of the power dynamic around Shivaji with such attitudes!

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 17 Jun 2010 04:17

brihaspati wrote:Atri ji,
I am mildly protesting recognizing the term "Dalit". We can talk of the "Dalit" movement, Dalit" activism, but not "he is a Dalit". Dalit is a created category of the modern period - an invention which has no connection to any real term ever used to denote a whole "people" like a "caste". It is a politically created term, deliberately not linked to any caste - because its coiners were aware that focusing on particular "repressed" castes would make the political mobilization problematic with the intra-caste fights and counter claims of hierarchies would show up. Some of them might even have not been good examples of "suppression" and repression at various periods of history. We cannot recognize and thereby reinforce claims of further distinctions. Let us specifically focus on it as a created political movement and not any real social category. In India politically created abstract categories have a tendency of turning themselves into hereditary claims of a separate identity.

agree... was just trying to clarify about narendra jadhav's "jadhav" surname.. The point being, nothing can be told about a person's caste background by knowing his surname these days. "dalit" is an artificial group. I will give an example. The caste "mahar" was part of village panchayat in medieval times. There was lot of oppression yes especially in 19th century, but it was rarely between one monolithic block of "upper castes" against another monolithic block of "lower castes". Firstly there aren't such monolithic blocks as they are made out to be. The mutual dynamics among the castes which are today listed as backwards is much more complicated than between Brahmins and non-brahmins.

As for Shinde - I am friends with one who is very "active". He says he fell in "spell" when we first met at some time point. However Bhavi hates me thoroughly. The reason, I asked for my favourite old Marathi dish of jowar bread and coriander chutney [ I got fond of it when I stayed with not so well off "friends" in Narmada Parikrama] and she replied that it was the food of the "lower castes". I was younger then with a rather sharper tongue which could lash out instantly, and bhavi was subjected to a half hour lecture on how that food could be taken as holy food because it maintained the bulk of Shivaji's army. She has been angry ever since - as much as the hubby remains close.

Just keeps me wondering as to the real dynamics of the power dynamic around Shivaji with such attitudes!

hehehe, befitting reply...

although bread of finger-millet (nachni) was more popular in the troops of Shivaji than bread of Jowar (Jwari chi Bhaakri)... He wasn't much popular amongst 96-clan Maratha people. His own brother in law and son in law remained faithful servants of Adilshah until their death, along with all the major Maratha families including his father and his step-brother.. The elites were further estranged by his land-reforms wherein he abolished mansabdari system.. Mahar, Ramoshi, Pardhi, Koli, Kayasthas, brahmins and other farming communities were his main support block.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2010 12:59

Atriji; thanks for the correction, I suppose I confused the extant power of Maratha feudal lords with the specific support base of Shivaji's movement.

However I think we agree on the main point that these caste/sub-castes were powerful forces, and by far not the "upper-caste" lower-caste nonsense that the 1931 census ensured.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Jun 2010 09:59

Prying Open India’s Vast Bureaucracy

It is true that the implementation of the act has been uneven at times. But half a decade after its passage, it is generally acknowledged as landmark legislation that is changing the relationship between citizens and their representatives; and that has the potential to transform governance in India.
The experience of men like Mr. Kalayansundaram suggests just how that potential could be achieved slowly, information request by information request. Sitting on a lawn under the hot sun, he told me of the various ways in which he had used the act, and of the small but significant changes that had resulted. He told me, for instance, of the information request he had made that revealed excessive spending by local officials on fuel and office snacks. When he publicized the information in newspapers, the expenses came down. He told me, too, about an information request he made that revealed that some politicians were paying rent for houses in their or their relatives’ names. This practice, too, had diminished. One of his greatest successes came recently, when he used the act to help solve a homicide case that had lain dormant for months. Based on information Mr. Kalayansundaram received through an information request, the police were able to identify a suspect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/world ... etter.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Jun 2010 07:55

The Trouble with Dr. Zakir Naik
Britain's decision to bar an influential Muslim cleric from entering the country underscores the failure of Indian secularism.

By SADANAND DHUME
If you're looking for a snapshot of India's hapless response to radical Islam, then look no further than Bombay-based cleric Dr. Zakir Naik. In India, the 44-year-old Dr. Naik—a medical doctor by training and a televangelist by vocation—is a widely respected figure, feted by newspapers and gushed over by television anchors. The British, however, want no part of him. On Friday, the newly elected Conservative-led government announced that it would not allow Dr. Naik to enter Britain to deliver a series of lectures. According to Home Secretary Theresa May, the televangelist has made "numerous comments" that are evidence of his "unacceptable behavior

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 79268.html

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Jun 2010 09:10

Prem wrote:The Trouble with Dr. Zakir Naik
Britain's decision to bar an influential Muslim cleric from entering the country underscores the failure of Indian secularism.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 79268.html

I wonder what Burkha Dutt has to say about this... next round of orgasms

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jun 2010 09:17

Prem wrote:The Trouble with Dr. Zakir Naik
Britain's decision to bar an influential Muslim cleric from entering the country underscores the failure of Indian secularism.
By SADANAND DHUME
If you're looking for a snapshot of India's hapless response to radical Islam, then look no further than Bombay-based cleric Dr. Zakir Naik. In India, the 44-year-old Dr. Naik—a medical doctor by training and a televangelist by vocation—is a widely respected figure, feted by newspapers and gushed over by television anchors. The British, however, want no part of him. On Friday, the newly elected Conservative-led government announced that it would not allow Dr. Naik to enter Britain to deliver a series of lectures. According to Home Secretary Theresa May, the televangelist has made "numerous comments" that are evidence of his "unacceptable behavior
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 79268.html

What is Dhumeji smoking! Who fetes the hate preacher?

Dhume= smoke

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 21 Jun 2010 09:23

Huge rise in central govt hiring from minorities

Numbers sourced from the ministry of minority affairs show that 2009 registered a huge six-fold increase in the number of people from minority communities recruited to jobs in public sector banks and other public sector financial institutions compared to 2007. The story, however, does not end there. The recruitment of minorities into railway jobs doubled from 2007 to 2009 and a strong surge was also visible in their appointments in the paramilitary forces and various public sector undertakings (PSUs).

The change, however, has not come about on its own. It is the result of a concerted policy effort by Manmohan Singh's government which first brought out the 'Prime Minister's New 15-Point Programme for Welfare of Minorities' in June 2006. Among other things - like better access for minorities to education and giving technical training to improve their skills - the programme clearly said that "special consideration" would be given to members of minority communities for filling up posts in "police, railways, nationalized banks and PSUs".

There is no religion-based quota for jobs in India. However, in this case, the PM's words were followed by action and on January 8, 2007, the Department of Personnel & Training circulated revised guidelines to all central ministries and departments asking them to give special consideration to the recruitment of minorities in central government offices and central PSUs.

So for all intents and purposes there is a religion based reservation and discrimination policy put in place ? The only thing left is to grandfather it into some constitutional scheme at a later date when a sufficient mass and a special interest group within the bureaucracy is created.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jun 2010 02:50

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/06/2 ... be-indian/
India: What Does It Mean To Be Indian?

Recently I’ve become increasingly convinced that I’m not an Indian. […] I don’t like (or understand) a single Indian soap currently on air. I never talk loudly to my maid, stockbroker or random friend during a movie. I always wait to let people exit an elevator before I enter. I don’t believe that Mumbai’s moviegoers should be forced to stand to attention every time they want to see Shrek (or anyone else) on the big screen. I don’t feel pride—only impatience that my popcorn’s getting cold—when I’m forced to listen to Lata/Asha do a slow-mo version of the national anthem before every single movie I watch in the city of my birth. […] I don’t think we’re the greatest people on earth. I don’t understand our sense of fake pride and nationalism. That whole chest-thumping Jai Ho phase? I never got it.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jun 2010 02:59

Prem Sir, happy to oblige

http://greatbong.net/2010/06/18/me-indian/

The confusion regarding identity is even more confounded when I think of my father, a former professor of Indian Institute of Management Calcutta and an intellectual legend in his time. He does not appreciate any of the lowbrow things I so admire and neither does he spit in public, nor does poke his nose in other people’s affairs. He also does not raise his voice. By definition then, he should not be Indian.

But he refers to himself as an Indian.

So if I take him at face value (i.e. of being Indian) , does that mean he is automatically not “serious scholar” enough (Gurucharan Das is quoted as saying ““Basically, after independence we did not produce any serious scholars,”)?

Even more disturbing, has he been secretly reading Chetan Bhagat?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Jun 2010 03:07

Hiring of minorities in important rashtryia admin sectors is not a new experience for India. It was almost always a part of "Hindu" regimes towards the last few breaths of their existence one or two generations before the regime was overthrown by Islamics. Look up Kashmir history.

Tytpically such regimes also showed repressive attitudes towards "Hindu" society in general or "Hindu" institutions in particular. Harsha and his pro-Islamic successors went on the rampage against "temples" and Hindu elite, and began relying more and more on Islamist admin personnel and army units. The next step that will happen in the GOI case will be a quiet and surreptitious recruitment drive for minorities in the armed forces and paramilitary forces. This is a sign of the elite leadership increasingly feeling distrust over the "majority" and uncertain about their political future - so they want to hedge their bets on minorities and hope to lengthen their stay in power by sitting as arbiters in a "minority-majority" conflict.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jun 2010 03:42

brihaspati wrote:Hiring of minorities in important rashtryia admin sectors is not a new experience for India. It was almost always a part of "Hindu" regimes towards the last few breaths of their existence one or two generations before the regime was overthrown by Islamics. Look up Kashmir history.
Tytpically such regimes also showed repressive attitudes towards "Hindu" society in general or "Hindu" institutions in particular. Harsha and his pro-Islamic successors went on the rampage against "temples" and Hindu elite, and began relying more and more on Islamist admin personnel and army units. The next step that will happen in the GOI case will be a quiet and surreptitious recruitment drive for minorities in the armed forces and paramilitary forces. This is a sign of the elite leadership increasingly feeling distrust over the "majority" and uncertain about their political future - so they want to hedge their bets on minorities and hope to lengthen their stay in power by sitting as arbiters in a "minority-majority" conflict.

We have been crying about this on BR for long time and now it is happening in front of our eyes. The fault is in the voting pattern of majorty , cant blame the BC politicians who are DIE any way. At least we know for now that security agencies are not buying this PS argument.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jun 2010 03:53

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/06/21/hate ... onference/
Hate preacher banned from Britain scheduled for Canadian conference

A Muslim televangelist banned from Britain this week for speeches amounting to “unacceptable behaviour” is to headline an imminent Toronto conference.Zakir Naik, founder of online Peace TV in Mumbai, India, tops the bill at the Journey of Faith Conference, July 2-4, at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. It is being described as the largest Islamic conference ever in North America.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 22 Jun 2010 04:18

In Defence of Liberty

In India however, we haven’t been so lucky and are stuck somewhere between the unlimited power of a democratic state and a constitutional democracy. This is because the limits imposed by the covenant that India’s forefathers conceived have been deleted, diluted and disregarded at every opportunity. One may be tempted to ask why is this important to anyone other than a lawyer and judges? The constitution lays down the rules of the game for each player. And every Indian citizen has been cheated in the game because the opposing side keeps changing the rules for its benefit. This is been done for various reasons. Some rules are changed because of a specific cause such as equity or social justice, others to preserve a specific social or moral goal, and yet others to protect individuals from their own folly, and most often for the private benefit of the powers that be. The aim of this issue is to discuss how these rules affect incentives and thus influence human action.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 22 Jun 2010 04:36

So, the length of time and breadth of vision afforded to us by the 35th anniversary should be seized to introspect on whether or not we have been honest to ourselves on the history of the Emergency. The growing hiatus between the politically powerful and the powerless, the yawning rich-poor divide and the collapse of the moral binding of the Indian State breeds public yearning for dictators. And any smart ruling party could seize the opportunities afforded by the loopholes in the 44th Amendment.

Time for honest analysis

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 22 Jun 2010 06:15

Prem wrote:
brihaspati wrote:Hiring of minorities in important rashtryia admin sectors is not a new experience for India. It was almost always a part of "Hindu" regimes towards the last few breaths of their existence one or two generations before the regime was overthrown by Islamics. Look up Kashmir history.
Tytpically such regimes also showed repressive attitudes towards "Hindu" society in general or "Hindu" institutions in particular. Harsha and his pro-Islamic successors went on the rampage against "temples" and Hindu elite, and began relying more and more on Islamist admin personnel and army units. The next step that will happen in the GOI case will be a quiet and surreptitious recruitment drive for minorities in the armed forces and paramilitary forces. This is a sign of the elite leadership increasingly feeling distrust over the "majority" and uncertain about their political future - so they want to hedge their bets on minorities and hope to lengthen their stay in power by sitting as arbiters in a "minority-majority" conflict.
We have been crying about this on BR for long time and now it is happening in front of our eyes. The fault is in the voting pattern of majorty , cant blame the BC politicians who are DIE any way. At least we know for now that security agencies are not buying this PS argument.

Either that, or non-integrity of election process.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Jun 2010 07:09

Self Deleted

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Jun 2010 18:03

Better not to express such sentiments. Even if the full force of the rashtryia security apparatus can somehow not be concentrated on Maoists, or Jihadis and they continue to operate for decades and half centuries and even grow in strength right under the nose of GOI, anything that is attempted on similar lines by "Hindu" activists will be surprisingly easily crushed. There will be no hesitation and long-winded deliberations on subtle points of differences of "humanitarian" issues and image or implication for the armed forces.

It is better to let the true faces of all components of the rashtryia machinery come out in the crisis they are building up. This may mean loss of some territory and populations in the short term, but the Jihadi-EJ-Maoist frontal cover for imperialism has to be allowed to play out fully to force the collaborators - if any -out in the open. Rest assured, that "collaborators" will be the first to be wiped off by the victors, then will come wiping out of Maoist, and finally the EJ's. I will not be surprised with the role actually played out by various non-legislative arms of the government too. If you want to plan - should plan for that eventuality.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Jun 2010 04:41

India Faces Sanitation Challenge
http://www.celsias.com/article/india-fa ... challenge/

While roughly half of India’s 1.2 billion population has a mobile phone, only 366 million people have access to proper sanitation, according to a 2008 study by the United Nations. Even in the midst of the global economic downturn, India’s growth never dipped below 5.8 percent, according to the Economist . As of 2009, the South Asian country is the fourth largest economy in the world.But the Indian government realizes the sanitation challenge will need more than just money. The National Urban Sanitation Policy aims to pair infrastructural changes with behavioral changes by increasing citizen awareness of the importance of sanitation.“It is a tragic irony to think that in India, a country now wealthy enough that roughly half of the people own phones, about half cannot afford the basic necessity and dignity of a toilet,” Zafar Adeel , director of the UN’s Institute for Water, Environment and Health, said in an April press release. Adeel was responding to the UN’s announcement that Millennium Development Goals for sanitation have fallen behind , especially in South Asia

.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Jun 2010 04:46

I fail to understand the Pawki infatuation with Indian toilets. Anywas, some good cause finally.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 23 Jun 2010 08:11

A good article - has it been posted already?

Is the nation in a coma? - http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/201 ... 300900.htm

European disquiet

Questions ranged from “Is your nation in a coma?”, the corruption in judiciary, the possible impeachment of a judge, the 2G scam and to the money parked illegally in tax havens.

It is a fact that the problem of corruption in India has assumed enormous and embarrassing proportions in recent years, although it has been with us for decades. The questions and the debate that followed in the panel discussion was indicative of the European disquiet. At the end of the Q&A session, I surmised Europeans perceive India to be at one of those junctures where tripping over the precipice cannot be ruled out.

Let me substantiate this further with what the European media has to say in recent days.

In a popular prime-time television discussion in Germany, the panellist, a member of the German Parliament quoting a blog said: “If all the scams of the last five years are added up, they are likely to rival and exceed the British colonial loot of India of about a trillion dollars.”

Banana Republic

One German business daily which wrote an editorial on India said: “India is becoming a Banana Republic instead of being an economic superpower. To get the cut motion designated out, assurances are made to political allays. Special treatment is promised at the expense of the people. So, Ms Mayawati who is Chief Minister of the most densely inhabited state, is calmed when an intelligence agency probe is scrapped. The multi-million dollars fodder scam by another former chief minister wielding enormous power is put in cold storage. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh chairs over this kind of unparalleled loot.”

An article in a French newspaper titled “Playing the Game, Indian Style” wrote: “Investigations into the shadowy financial deals of the Indian cricket league have revealed a web of transactions across tax havens like Switzerland, the Virgin Islands, Mauritius and Cyprus.” In the same article, the name of one Hassan Ali of Pune is mentioned as operating with his wife a one-billion-dollar illegal Swiss account with “sanction of the Indian regime”.

A third story narrated in the damaging article is that of the former chief minister of Jharkhand, Madhu Koda, who was reported to have funds in various tax havens that were partly used to buy mines in Liberia. “Unfortunately, the Indian public do not know the status of that enquiry,” the article concluded.

“In the nastiest business scam in Indian records (Satyam) the government adroitly covered up the political aspects of the swindle — predominantly involving real estate,” wrote an Austrian newspaper. “If the Indian Prime Minister knows nothing about these scandals, he is ignorant of ground realities and does not deserve to be Prime Minister. If he does, is he a collaborator in crime?”

The Telegraph of the UK reported the 2G scam saying: “Naturally, India's elephantine legal system will ensure culpability, is delayed.”

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jun 2010 08:27

If an European Bank can "calmly" accept tainted money from Indians on the excuse of financial exigencies, what is biting other Europeans to criticize India for lack of "financial" morality. In a financial world where they themselves had set the precedence of every atrocity being justified because of power interests, I am not sure the Europeans have any moral high ground. Maybe they are upset that the Indian billions are all hogged by the Swiss!

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Jun 2010 09:19

ramana wrote:What is Dhumeji smoking! Who fetes the hate preacher?

Dhume= smoke

As one of the comments points out, UPA used Osama Bin Laden lookalike in election campaigning.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 23 Jun 2010 10:44

brihaspati wrote:If an European Bank can "calmly" accept tainted money from Indians on the excuse of financial exigencies, what is biting other Europeans to criticize India for lack of "financial" morality. In a financial world where they themselves had set the precedence of every atrocity being justified because of power interests, I am not sure the Europeans have any moral high ground. Maybe they are upset that the Indian billions are all hogged by the Swiss!

Europeans are not hurting their own people when they accept tainted money from India. Their comments are more about how Indian people tolerate elites that behave in a manner reminiscent of Mugabe and Idi Amin.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jun 2010 16:46

That is still double standards. Both the supplier of corruption and the consumer of corruption are required to carry on corruption. If the Europeans did not provide a safe haven it would become more difficult for the Indian corrupt to indulge in corruption. For example a sustained campaign against use of ivory or its import, or against drugs imports and smuggling at the consumer country-end does have effects on the killing of elephants or export and production of drugs in source countries.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 23 Jun 2010 17:18

Pranav wrote:... “If the Indian Prime Minister knows nothing about these scandals, he is ignorant of ground realities and does not deserve to be Prime Minister. If he does, is he a collaborator in crime?”...

Aaahaa...I hope MMS's kids/kins/friends..read this and enlighten him what media in other countries say about him and his country...

I some times feel that Indian politicians should be greatly insulted at an international summit by western leaders which should actually question an Indian leader's mardaangi about leading a nation...

Leading leaders of the world criticizing Indian leadership is sometimes healthy for India in a whole.....but everybody praises us / offer state visits and we climb channa ki jhaad and do chest thumping which actually adds more credibility to these politicians....while our system crumbles from inside...and we unaware of it become a part of that...

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Jun 2010 23:48

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/islam ... media.html

MUMBAI -- An Indian Islamic preacher who was banned from entering Britain due to "unacceptable behaviour" has vowed to appeal against the decision, which he blamed on the British media.
Mumbai-based television preacher Zakir Naik had been due to give a series of lectures in London and northern England but Britain's new Home Secretary Theresa May barred him last week."We have written to the UK home ministry, seeking them to revise their decision and revoke the exclusion order," a spokesperson for Naik told AFP on Wednesday.Naik will take up legal proceedings in London if the government does not reverse its ban, he said.On Tuesday Naik issued a statement accusing May of acting on British press reports which he said portrayed him as "preacher of hate" and a "terror-backer."Naik has run into controversy for complimentary references to Al-Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden, which he says were made in Singapore in 1996, prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks."It is not justified or sensible to use these quotes in the context of 9/11, when the atrocities had not taken place," Naik said....

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 24 Jun 2010 02:09

India foils Chinese bid to patent 'pudina'
TOI

NEW DELHI: India has foiled a major Chinese bio-piracy bid to patent the use of medicinal plants 'pudina' (mint) and 'kalamegha' (andrographis) for the treatment of H5N1 avian influenza or bird flu.

The Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR), with the help of India's Traditional Knowledge Digital Library (TKDL), dug out formulations from ancient Ayurveda and Unani texts, like 'Cakradattah', 'Bhaisajya Ratnavali', 'Kitaab-al-Haawi-fil-Tibb' and 'Qaraabaadeen Azam wa Akmal', dating back to the 9th century, to show that both 'pudina' and 'kalamegha' have been widely used in India since ages for influenza and epidemic fevers.

After receiving exhaustive evidence from CSIR that confirmed India's stand, the European Patent Office (EPO) on June 10 cancelled the decision to grant patent to Livzon, a major Chinese pharmaceutical company, on the medicinal properties of pudina and kalamegha for treating bird flu.

It all began when Livzon, on January 19, 2007 filed a patent application at EPO claiming usefulness of pudina and kalamegha for the treatment of bird flu to be novel. Impressed with the data, EPO decided to grant patent to Livzon on February 25, 2010.

However, on April 27, director of TKDL Dr V K Gupta shot off a letter to the EPO informing the examiners that the medicinal properties of pudina and kalamegha have been long known in Indian traditional medicine.

The letter said, "The patent application number EP1849473, titled Chinese traditional medicine composition for treatment of avian influenza, method for preparation, and application thereof, may kindly be referred to wherein the usefulness of andrographis (kalamegha) and mint (pudina) for treatment of fever, detoxification and for the treatment of avian influenza, has been claimed to be novel."

The letter added, "In the TKDL, there are several references where andrographis and mint are used for the treatment of influenza and epidemic fever. Hence, there does not seem to be any novelty or inventive step involved in the claims made in the above referred patent application."

Following the letter, the EPO set up a three-member panel to study the evidence. On June 10, the panel decided to cancel the Chinese patent claim.

TKDL is a collaborative project between CSIR and Union health ministry's department of Ayush.

In 2000, a TKDL expert group estimated that about 2,000 wrong patents concerning Indian systems of medicine were being granted every year at the international level, mainly due to the fact that India's traditional medicine knowledge existed in languages such as Sanskrit, Hindi, Arabic, Urdu, Tamil etc. These were neither accessible nor understood by the patent examiners at the international patent offices.

TKDL, therefore, overcame these language and format barriers by scientifically converting and making available information contents in 34 million A4 size pages of the ancient texts into five international languages -- English, Japanese, French, German and Spanish.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jun 2010 20:19

X-Post...

Sanku wrote:
Pranav wrote: Basic principle: Either you totally destroy an enemy, or you leave him alone.
Flawed, it assume that the world is Binary.

A while back Ramana had put up a magnificent essay into the "secret of longevity of Byzantine" -- every one who wants to talk geo-politics should read that.

On how greys the approach was, how clearly understood were the real political imperatives, how the basic memes of the civilization was carried forward under different wraps.

How finally the barbarians who defeated Byzantines ended up turning into copies of what the Empire was.

Three things are needed
1) Huge military power, kept in check, unleashed rarely but kept visible for all to see.
2) A clear national goal.
3) Un conventional means for times when total war was not being fought (sam, dam, danda, bheda) and sub-conventional warfare.