Wiki Leaks on Af-Pak

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 02:07

Kucinich speaks (or double-speaks) on WikiLeaks:

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 02:10

Pak reaction

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 02:24

Katie Couric quotes Gates3:

"there's a large degree of US mistrust in Pakistan"

"if another attack on america comes from that region, all bets are off"

naren · Post by **naren** » 29 Jul 2010 02:44

Sanjay M wrote:Katie Couric quotes Gates3:

"there's a large degree of US mistrust in Pakistan"

"if another attack on america comes from that region, all bets are off"

*scratches beard* hmmm.... now what will happen if an enemy of Pakistan engages in false flag op ?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 29 Jul 2010 03:22

Time to make a Youtube Video on Wikileaks?

Something on the lines of "Stop funding Pakistan to kill our soldiers." Short, compelling and impactful.

Here's an open call for source material. If you have the time and come across any of the following in your searches, please send to me:
rudradev DOTT brf ATT gee-male DOTT com

1) Two-three of the MOST damning indictments of Pakistan from the Wikileaks, showing how Pakistan is aiding the Taliban against US forces, annotated with references. They should be brief, sound-bite size, 1-2 sentences. Only the text is required.

2) Photographs (as hi-res as possible) of Afghan war images.

3) Photographs (as hi-res as possible) of Pakistani jernails meeting and doing pappi-jhappi with Taliban leaders. As recent as possible.

4) Photographs (as hi-res as possible) of two or three big ticket military items donated by the US to Pakistan: PAF F-16, PAF P3C Orion, Harpoon Missile, AMRAAM missile. We ALSO need estimated $$ figures as to how much the sum total of each of these items delivered cost the American public. (e.g. "F-16 fighter: YOU paid $XXX,XXX,XXX.00")

5) Figures for American aid to Pakistan, yearly, from 2001 to present.

6) Photographs (as hi-res as possible) of American war dead, of American amputees and injured survivors of Afghanistan, of American coffins being lowered into the ground draped with US flag.

Thanks in advance!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 04:01

this one had sad music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIiYWqqgdKY

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 04:03

naren wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:Katie Couric quotes Gates3:

"there's a large degree of US mistrust in Pakistan"

"if another attack on america comes from that region, all bets are off"
*scratches beard* hmmm.... now what will happen if an enemy of Pakistan engages in false flag op ?

Don't you worry, if another 9/11 happens, Atlanticists like Brzezinski will insist it's a false-flag op.
Remember how Faisal Shazad's carbombing attempt was initially blamed on Tea-partyists, until the evidence clearly came through to the contrary.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 29 Jul 2010 04:10

naren wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:Katie Couric quotes Gates3:

"there's a large degree of US mistrust in Pakistan"

"if another attack on america comes from that region, all bets are off"
*scratches beard* hmmm.... now what will happen if an enemy of Pakistan engages in false flag op ?

According to America and its leaders, India is not Pakistan's number one enemy. It is the Taliban. And as seen in their web forums, most "educated Pakistanis" agree. So any attack will come from that region from this number one enemy.

Let us go along with that version and not score any goals

.

naren · Post by **naren** » 29 Jul 2010 04:38

I downloaded this and extracted to my HD. Its about 3.5Gb. Do we have space to host this ?

Link

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 29 Jul 2010 05:30

Sanjay M wrote:Don't you worry, if another 9/11 happens, Atlanticists like Brzezinski will insist it's a false-flag op.
Remember how Faisal Shazad's carbombing attempt was initially blamed on Tea-partyists, until the evidence clearly came through to the contrary.

+1 to that. Remember, as soon as 911 happened, ex CIA chief came on TV and confidnetly said it is all Iraq. They built the 911 case around Iraq and attacked it. It is an open secret that all the terror woes around the world is from TSP but they just don't want to take an it. TSP is always a useful state.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Jul 2010 05:32

With the sole exception of ALL those Afghans whose names appear in this leak nothing else is going to happen.

ISI will be as bad.

The US will do whatever it does.

And, wikileak has not got its 15 worthless minutes of fame.

Most Afghan names that appear in the leak will be killed ....................... by the ISI. S section.

naren · Post by **naren** » 29 Jul 2010 05:36

Muppalla wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:Don't you worry, if another 9/11 happens, Atlanticists like Brzezinski will insist it's a false-flag op.
Remember how Faisal Shazad's carbombing attempt was initially blamed on Tea-partyists, until the evidence clearly came through to the contrary.
+1 to that. Remember, as soon as 911 happened, ex CIA chief came on TV and confidnetly said it is all Iraq. They built the 911 case around Iraq and attacked it. It is an open secret that all the terror woes around the world is from TSP but they just don't want to take an it. TSP is always a useful state.

Atleast this guy in green pants figured it out.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 29 Jul 2010 06:32

Our MMS and gang seems to be ensuring Paki and US people are kept happy even now by keeping quite.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 07:28

So if Taliban have been using MANPADS, anyone care to guess as to what kind??

I'm thinking Anza, because the batteries on the original Stingers are supposed to have run out, thus presumably blanking their volatile memories. But is it possible that ISI got them other MANPADS from some 3rd-party black market source?

What's the likely procurement trail, here?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 07:55

Another pressing question: Pak is a very vindictive tit-for-tat country - is there any potential for Pak to now stage a PakiLeaks type of response of their own?

What kind of PakiLeaks scenario would Pak most like to engineer?
Could Pak for example get hold of some sensitive documents from India and release them via some 3rd party in the same way? If so, which ones?

What kind of PakiLeaks stunt would be most damaging to India?
What kind of vulnerability in this regard should India be most wary of?

For instance, would they go after Modi? BJP? Would they go after CRPF, would they go after Indian Army?
How can Indian institutions properly guard against a PakiLeaks offensive?

Couldn't we just hack the site (and sister sites) to bring it down?
I would prefer we just insert a rootkit type of worm into the document files, to give all participants some indigestion.

If India has a cyberwarfare division, it would be best to rehearse these operations in advance, before such eventualities arise.

naren · Post by **naren** » 29 Jul 2010 08:36

Sanjay M wrote:Another pressing question: Pak is a very vindictive tit-for-tat country - is there any potential for Pak to now stage a PakiLeaks type of response of their own?

This question assumes that Pak is a self respecting country & this is the first and only time their H&D had been damaged

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Jul 2010 08:56

Well, they are ambitious opportunists, so if they see an opportunity to embarrass India, they'd jump at it. A PakiLeaks stunt could allow them to try out a new avenue, while also saying "2 can play at this game"

I do think it's something that India should be watchful over, especially since the leftist-Islamist horde would jump all over it, if it happened.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 29 Jul 2010 12:04

>>educated Pakistanis

Hnair, you are smoking some good stuff!

naren · Post by **naren** » 29 Jul 2010 12:09

shhhhhhh guys. Dont give 'em ideas. Lets talk about harnessing djinn power.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Jul 2010 12:21

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... e+1.0&aq=0

Wikileaks on youtube

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Jul 2010 12:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phDIbxhYfAc

Could WikiLeaks secrets destroy US foreign relations?

the continued existence of the US Government increases the threat of world war. When it's worthless money is no longer accepted as legal tender in the world, it will have no choice but to fight countries who refuse this paper or submit to their governments. The US holds, to the exponent of infinity, documents and secrets by far and away more than have ever been released.

vic · Post by **vic** » 29 Jul 2010 19:24

Does Wikil leaks give details of "Moral and diplomatic support" provided to Anti-Pak Taliban from x. y. z?

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 29 Jul 2010 21:51

So this PFC Bradley or whoever is being court-martialled for leaking classified info, and the Pentagon is broadly hinting without actually saying so, that he's the Leaker. Even got some slob of a hacker to act sanctimonious about Protecting National Security by tell them that some guy told him on the internet that he had "leaked".

Makes it all look staged, more and more. With BO essentially taking credit for it, there is little doubt that the leaks were staged.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 03:01

But I really want to know - have the identities of Afghan informants and other anti-Talib Afghans now been compromised by these documents? I've been looking through some of these docs, and they list peoples' names directly, along with their villages, etc. If the US govt really did leak those documents as a psy-op, could it be perhaps that the names have been changed to protect these people, or have their real details been published, so as to put their lives in danger?

Because if real names of informants/etc have been made public, then there's not just a risk that they'll be killed/tortured by Taliban, but a guaranteed certainty.

Outwardly, Pak's govt is reacting with outrage, etc, but inwardly they must be very anxious to read through these documents to get operational details on US activities, and especially to get the names of informants to kill and/or interrogate.

archan · Post by **archan** » 30 Jul 2010 04:32

Do we know for sure that the names have not been changed?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 05:07

I don't know whether the names have been changed or not - I just know that the documents certainly do name names. We'll soon be able to tell whether the names are real by the bodycount.
If there is a sudden rise in the number of targeted killings, and if there is a sudden increase in the flight of individuals fleeing Taliban, then we'll know that the names were real and that those people really were betrayed by WikiLeaks.

Beyond that, I'm wondering if the genuine operational details were also similarly exposed, because that would be a great help to ISI, Taliban, AlQaeda in improving their war against the Americans.

If this is all really the case, meaning that the Americans are not the ones who leaked this info, then who helped do it? Is it really just some inside job, or would there have been some foreign state sponsor to help engineer it? In which case, who would do it? As the Romans say, "Who Profits?"

Anyway, we'll soon know if the Taliban start scoring more hits. We'll also know if ISI starts tightening up their operations in response to revelations on how they were being monitored.

I didn't realize before that all calls going in and out of Afghanistan are routed through Pakistan. It would be better if calls for at least the Northern half go in and out via Russia, instead of via Pak.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 08:48

If this is true, then it's horrible:

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 09:14

ISI boys must be literally grinning ear-to-ear over the treasure trove of information gifted to them by WikiLeaks. They must be drooling in anticipation of all the blood they'll soon drink. Just imagine how many anti-Pakistani Afghans will now mysteriously turn up murdered, because WikiLeaks never bothered to protect the names/locations of people listed in the documents they've exposed.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 30 Jul 2010 09:30

Karzai turns his guns on Pakistan again!

Cross-post:

arun wrote:Afghan President Hamid Karzai demands action against the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for fomenting Islamic Terrorism in Afghanistan.

From ABC, the Australian one:

Karzai urges allies to strike Pakistan

The BBC take;

Karzai suggests West not acting over Pakistan Taliban

The view of Reuters:

Afghan president asks why allies won't act on Pakistan

And that of AFP:

Karzai asks West to destroy Pakistan militant havens

So we've gone from a situation where Karzai was apparently flirting with TSPA/ISI to one where he is openly battering them for anti-Afghan terrorism again.

As JEM said, any notion that Karzai sincerely sought reconciliation with Pakistan in the first place ought to have been taken with a bucket of salt. Sure, he sidelined Amrullah Saleh and Hanif Atmar, two senior officials who were relentlessly critical of Pakistan. But by the same token, TSPA also "sidelined" the anti-Western Jihadi generals Mohammed Aziz and Mahmud Ahmed after 9/11... that hardly amounted to a sincere effort to "de-jihadize" the Pakistan Army, did it? It was taqqiyya and playing the odds.

Nonetheless, Karzai seemed determined to treat with Pakistan and Iran, building a coalition that included the Haqqanis and possibly Iranian proxies as well, much to the dismay of the US who have concluded that the Haqqanis are conjoined twins of Al Qaeda.

Now, after the WikiLeaks episode has made public the role of Pakistani AND Iranian intelligence in managing the war against the coalition and sponsoring anti-Kabul terrorism, Karzai has done a full 360 and is back to lambasting Pakistan again. I am sure the Americans are relieved that Karzai seems to have given up on reaching an ISI-brokered deal with the Haqqanis.

Does this suggest a reason why it may have been in Washington's interest to leak the WikiLeaks documents?

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 30 Jul 2010 09:34

Because if real names of informants/etc have been made public, then there's not just a risk that they'll be killed/tortured by Taliban, but a guaranteed certainty.

My guess is that every name and village has been changed to give the name and village of an Eye Ess Eye Agent. As in "Yes, we know, $uckers!" No wonder the Pakis are reacting like their mijjiles are on fire.

Of course, Karzai has to come out and express outrage, but the Bakis when they read those 76,000,000 pages, are sure to reach for the dwindling stock of Pepto.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 30 Jul 2010 09:40

If this is all really the case, meaning that the Americans are not the ones who leaked this info, then who helped do it?

There is a very easy test for this. Are you able to download the stuff? If yes, it means that the US initiated the leak. Because for sure they would have shut off the site on Day 1 otherwise, as late as that was already.

And if these are really Classified documents, then everyone downloading them is potentially due for a visit from the guys/gals with the dark glasses and earbuds. But I hear of no such intent. They are all standing around wringing their hands, it is so hilarious.

For sure, the purpose is a clear, clear message to TSP that the Predators and the B-2s are being refuelled.

Look for several arrests of Al Qaida Number 3R, 3S, 3T etc and reports of major battle deaths of TSPA in Swat etc.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 09:56

I still remember watching 26/11 attacks on NDTV, and Barkin Mutt was talking about some US couple trapped in the hotel who had been speaking via cellphone, and then pointing out to everyone the window of their hotel room using the news camera. Maybe she should apply for a job at WikiLeaks.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 30 Jul 2010 10:11

Sanjay M wrote:Kucinich speaks (or double-speaks) on WikiLeaks:

The lady in this video sounds like a pro war American. The gent sounds like he is against any war. And that brings us to my point - there are two factions in America. One wants war another wants to run away from the war. Neither party is interested in pausing to think if the war is justified. The group that wants no war is in the power now. Their pressure will force a pull out from Afghanistan. Iraq war will continue because there are industrialists in US who would like US presence in Iraq to continue for obvious reasons. This group has enough clout to blunt the anti war people, at least in Iraq.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 10:14

enqyoob wrote:My guess is that every name and village has been changed to give the name and village of an Eye Ess Eye Agent. As in "Yes, we know, $uckers!" No wonder the Pakis are reacting like their mijjiles are on fire.

Of course, Karzai has to come out and express outrage, but the Bakis when they read those 76,000,000 pages, are sure to reach for the dwindling stock of Pepto.

Pakis have the advantage - they won't knowingly kill their own assets. If they're unsure about someone's loyalty, they'd just kidnap them for interrogation, and then kill them once they found them out.

I can see why Karzai would be unhappy, since any number of informants could have been his own men. But any number could also be ordinary individuals.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 30 Jul 2010 10:16

enqyoob wrote:There is a very easy test for this. Are you able to download the stuff? If yes, it means that the US initiated the leak. Because for sure they would have shut off the site on Day 1 otherwise, as late as that was already.

And if these are really Classified documents, then everyone downloading them is potentially due for a visit from the guys/gals with the dark glasses and earbuds. But I hear of no such intent. They are all standing around wringing their hands, it is so hilarious.

For sure, the purpose is a clear, clear message to TSP that the Predators and the B-2s are being refuelled.

Look for several arrests of Al Qaida Number 3R, 3S, 3T etc and reports of major battle deaths of TSPA in Swat etc.

But why would Americans leak the fact that Taliban have SAMs, which could demoralize their own heliborne troops? It would also embolden ordinary Talibs to think they have SAMs on their side.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Jul 2010 10:24

Sanjay M wrote:But why would Americans leak the fact that Taliban have SAMs, which could demoralize their own heliborne troops? It would also embolden ordinary Talibs to think they have SAMs on their side.

Because the war needs to be brought again to the ground. Drones and Planes are in danger, so they don't suffice any more as the only military tactic in Pakistan. America needs ground troops in the bad-lands.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jul 2010 10:27

SanjayM, Pakis will try to Pakileak that India is the sponsor of Pakiban.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jul 2010 11:04

Nightwatch, 29/7/2010

Pakistan-Afghanistan: The Pakistani "Foreign Office" released a statement 29 July that Pakistan does not understand why Afghan President Hamid Karzai asked NATO forces to attack possible terrorist havens inside Pakistan and has asked Pakistan's ambassador to Afghanistan to seek clarification, the Associated Press of Pakistan reported. The spokesman said Pakistan and Afghanistan have been working together for the past two years to combat terrorism.

Comment: It is premature to draw conclusions, but one of the casualties of Wikileaks might be the Afghanistan tilt towards Pakistan. There is little enough trust between the leaders and members of the two nations without the added stress of unconfirmed and undated examples of mistrust from an earlier time.

One problem with press treatment of the leaked reports is that it tends to ignore the dates. None are contemporary. They cover a five year span. Thus, things Karzai might have said three or more years ago have long since been overtaken by more recent events. In current events analysis, even a year is a life time.

It is always important to look for the date of the information whenever a news outlet runs a story based on the leaked documents. If there is no date, be suspicious that the news writer is spinning the story to relate year old information to the present. The latest date of information for the Wikileaks documents is 2009.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Jul 2010 11:23

I was told aeons ago (unconfirmed) that on a trip to India,Karzai pleaded with our then NSA "Mike",for assistance to fight the Taliban and India's support in shoring up his govt.His distaste for the Pakis too was quite in evidence.Left to himself,Karzai would not even touch them with a barge pole,but he also relies upon US/Western largesse and has had to bend to the "breezes" of the West.When the West tilts towards Pak,so must he,when they tilt towards the Taliban he is also expected to follow suit.The Wikleaks expose has given him a golden opportunity to speak openly what most intelligent observers already know that the HQ of the Taliban and Islamist terror globally is at the GHQ of the Paki army."Rawalpindi" is the global terror capital and sending drones to eliminate a few of the bearded loony leadership from time to time ,merely assuages the symptoms of the disease-global terror,rather than attacking the "root",which are the uniformed terrorists of the Paki army.

If the US/West were to attack Paki GHQ with their drones and eliminate the scum in uniform,75% of Islamist terror worldwide would cease immediately! The headless chickens could then be picked off at will,once the Medusa like head is lopped off from is body.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 30 Jul 2010 11:31

most intelligent observers already know that the HQ of the Taliban and Islamist terror globally is at the GHQ of the Paki army."Rawalpindi" is the global terror capital and sending drones to eliminate a few of the bearded loony leadership from time to time ,merely assuages the symptoms of the disease-global terror,rather than attacking the "root",which are the uniformed terrorists of the Paki army.

If the US/West were to attack Paki GHQ with their drones and eliminate the scum in uniform,75% of Islamist terror worldwide would cease immediately! The headless chickens could then be picked off at will,once the Medusa like head is lopped off from is body.

Of course we all know that, which is why the issue becomes: Hu leaked?

From what I hear, Foggy Bottom is what comes up with the theory that
Pakistan is the Front-lyin' Al-Lie in GOAT

and one reason for this is the proliferation of Paki-AmirKhani mujaheddin in the middle levels of the US State Department. But mid-level types cannot alone keep up such a blatantly stupid policy, so one has to ask who the true supporters of Paki terror in the US establishment are. Must be the Jarnails/ Military-Industrial Complex?

The leaks appear to then be the expression of the frustration felt by the US soldiers, so my guess is that those who admired the previous Commander in A'stan may have done it, with or without Petraeus' tacit approval.