People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

[RajeshA]

All of them are stolen from fortune cookies.

naren ji,

stop giving me diversionary business models!

[Dhiman]

So please lets not delude ourselves. Power is power. The greater your independent power the better. The greater your ability to make the other power seek your help to fight a third party, the better it is for you.

Sir,

What the world needs is a power that does not desire global domination and this is where I think India needs to step up (and has stepped up in past). Otherwise there are exactly three powers today that are hell bent on world domiation: USA (with its stated goal of maintaining american power and dominance through the next century), China (with its stated goal of becoming a superpower and replacing declining american power), and the Islamic Jihadists (with their stated goal of bringing the world under Islamic rule).

Somebody needs to show these barbarians that power is something that needs to be sacrificed and for all our faults, I think India can do this, is inclined to do this, and this should be our explicit stated goal rather than helping the Chinese to replace the western hegemony with a Chinese hegemony or helping the western powers maintain their hegemony, while never loose "integrity" by siding with one or other.

We already live under a western hegemony and hence have been "mentally conditioned" (just like much of the world) over last two centuries to see western hegemony has benevolent and good while ignoring or not paying enough attention to their barbarianism. And I agree with you, China is no different and will also appear nobel and benovalent by default if (by a remote chance) a Chinese hegemony gets established.

However, China is NOT showing the world a new better path nor does it have the capability or the capacity to do so. Hence, we cannot slip from a western hegemony into a Chinese hegemony. There is nothing to learn from China. At the same time, we already live under a western hegemony and have adapted to it better than most other countries in the world. Some pandering do this western hegemony will be needed, because if we start poking too many holes in this hegemony, it will only help the Chinese to establish their hegemony. I for one see no reason to pass from one hegemony to another.

[Pulikeshi]

Churchill said this about Russia, but a more recent update would just need Russia to be China:

"China is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."

RajeshA - if the Anglo-Americans as you claim have boxed in Indians mentally, then not sure
if there is any hope in any of your activities on BRF
If the Chinese have boxed Indian's in physically, then game over, time India started paying
tribute to China again

Naren - Mao bashing within limits has been allowed for a few years now, nothing new.
You will be surprised at how much economic dissent exists in China in academia.
It is tolerated, for example chaps at Peking will tell you criticize the horizontal (economics)
never the vertical (politics). There will be nods of acceptance that it is the right way...

My two paisa for what it is worth - one must differentiate between tactical and strategic.
China's Japan move is tactical, like other instances the Chinese have overplayed their hand
causing one or more state in Asia to take corrective steps that has diminished Chinese power.
Question is will an-anti China alliance ever form in Asia - I think not, but who knows.

End of the day, neither hyper-realism nor emotion is the answer.
India best prepare for a major escalation including a limited war 2011-12.
As the internal unrest in China is going to dictate the when, but there is no doubt on the if!

[RajeshA]

There is nothing to learn from China

Perhaps you mean There is nothing to learn from China about political rights and a just society.

Otherwise, there is plenty to learn from China. In some areas, there is even a need to learn how to emulate them.

[RajeshA]

RajeshA - if the Anglo-Americans as you claim have boxed in Indians mentally, then not sure
if there is any hope in any of your activities on BRF
If the Chinese have boxed Indian's in physically, then game over, time India started paying
tribute to China again

If you piss enough the cardboard boxes will fall apart.

[svinayak]

India is a non entity that still hasn't decided whether it belongs to the anglosphere or whether it can stand up as an independent civilization as the Chinese are trying to so.

India should leave the commonwealth.

India will make it a Indiawealth!

[Dhiman]

There is nothing to learn from China

Perhaps you mean There is nothing to learn from China about political rights and a just society.

Otherwise, there is plenty to learn from China. In some areas, there is even a need to learn how to emulate them.

Sir, perhaps you can clarify. I for one would certainly like to know what we can learn from the Chinese that cannot be learned from the functioning of an ant colony which are extremely well organized and purposeful. If ants where as big as humans, rest assured they would be establishing their hegemony over CCP functioning.

[RajeshA]

perhaps you can clarify. I for one would certainly like to know what we can learn from the Chinese that cannot be learned from the functioning of an ant colony which are extremely well organized and purposeful.

Well for one, how lessons learned from an ant colony can be implemented in human societies.

China has been able to rise from a developing country to the second most powerful country in the world, and is on its way to surpass the US in the size of its economy. All this time it has expanded geographically from Manchuria to Tibet. It has been able to assert control over its minorities spread over the half of its geographical expanse. The Chinese control the political and business elites from USA to EU to Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Maldives to Pakistan in South Asia. It has made deep economic inroads into all countries of the world. It has by far the biggest foreign currency reserves in the world. It has been able to capture Africa from the West from right under their noses, just as it has captured South Asia from right under our nose. It has proliferated all sorts of nuclear tech to all sorts of unsavory regimes in the world, without ever having to answer for it.

As far as I see it, there is no other country which can teach us more than China.

[shiv]

What the world needs is a power that does not desire global domination and this is where I think India needs to step up (and has stepped up in past). Otherwise there are exactly three powers today that are hell bent on world domiation: USA (with its stated goal of maintaining american power and dominance through the next century), China (with its stated goal of becoming a superpower and replacing declining american power), and the Islamic Jihadists (with their stated goal of bringing the world under Islamic rule).

Somebody needs to show these barbarians that power is something that needs to be sacrificed and for all our faults, I think India can do this, is inclined to do this, and this should be our explicit stated goal rather than helping the Chinese to replace the western hegemony with a Chinese hegemony or helping the western powers maintain their hegemony, while never loose "integrity" by siding with one or other.

I admire your idealism, but I have a few thoughts on the issue.

If you look at the relevant literature there are only two routes that the world can take:
1) The USA model of pernicious resource exploitation, competition for such exploitation and enforced unequality
2) The "let us all preserve the world and not exploit it" model and try and make the world into Pandora of Avatar the movie where we Indians are the Na'vi

In this world, only the countries that take route 1 have the will and means to dominate. The US and China have taken that route. There is not a chance of a snowflake in hell of India being able to either dominate or survive without being greedy and exploitative.

[archan]

That unfortunately is the truth about our flawed (human) civilization. You cannot expect to survive for too long if you are "nice".

[abhishek_sharma]

What China learned from Vladimir Putin

http://oilandglory.foreignpolicy.com/po ... imir_putin

Now we have China informing Japan -- and the rest of Asia -- that the Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea are its territory in which to fish and whatever else it wishes. Like Russia, Beijing did so by demonstrating that it was prepared to go to almost any extreme -- in this case short of war, but including the crippling of several Japanese industries -- to press its territorial claim. This includes rights over the big oil and gas reserves in the islands. Today Japan blinked. After this, will Japan continue the presumption that it is in charge of what it calls the Senkaku islands? Not if it wishes to continue to manufacture the Prius, as Andrew Leonard notes at Salon.

A smart oilman told me yesterday over lunch that the rise of China was never going to be like the rise of Japan in the 1980s. Japan was a commercial power without imperial pretensions; China is both.

At the Financial Times, Geoff Dyer says this is not just the caprice of Chinese rulers, but the prodding "of powerful groups within the party-state system." This includes China's oilmen and other industrial leaders, Linda Jakobson of the Stockholm International Peace Institute tells Dyer, "new actors [who think] it is time for China to take its place on the world stage."

[Arihant]

China Unveils “The Kashmir Card”
By Mohan Malik, Jamestown Foundation

[Shankas]

China Unveils “The Kashmir Card”
By Mohan Malik, Jamestown Foundation

Given the recent events, the obvious conclusion one reaches is this is the handy work of US and its partners. To me this sounds too simplistic and direct.
I am beginning to think the greatest beneficiary from this event will be China. In the past decade, China has invited and then copied all that they require from the western companies. We are now seeing the next phase being played out. Western companies are no longer welcome in China. The plan seems to be to create a bogey and then drop in as a savior and offer copied solutions.

[praksam]

Lately with china in the news its mostly their arrogance.

Here another.

Posting in full (Subscription site)

Dagong Fires Back at SEC

SHANGHAI—Dagong Global Credit Rating Co. called the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's recent denial of its application to be an officially recognized bond rater in the U.S. discriminatory and said it is considering taking legal action against the agency.

The SEC said last week that the Chinese rating company's proposal to have China's securities regulator vet and broker all correspondence between the SEC and Dagong wouldn't satisfy U.S. federal securities law.

Dagong, in a harshly worded statement posted on its website Sunday, said the SEC was wrong to deny its application because of the commission's inability to conduct cross-border supervision over Dagong, a touchy issue involving national sovereignty.

"Dagong cannot accept giving up national sovereignty as a condition for a credit rating company's qualification," the firm said.

Dagong's effort to gain acceptance in the U.S., and its angry rebuttal to the SEC's decision, illustrate China's eagerness to exert more influence in global markets and its frustration over the dominance of institutions from developed countries.

Dagong had said that China's securities regulator would have to remove any "state secrets" from Dagong's documents before sending them to the SEC.

Dagong doesn't disclose its ownership structure on its website, but the company has received strong support from the Chinese government. Of China's three largest credit-rating companies, Dagong is the only one wholly Chinese-owned. China Chengxin International Rating Co. is 49% held by Moody's Investors Service, and China Lianhe Credit Rating Co. is 49% held by Fitch Ratings Inc.

The SEC on Wednesday denied Dagong's registration to become a "nationally recognized statistical rating organization," or NRSRO, a designation that allows a firm's ratings to be used as benchmarks in U.S. laws and regulations.

The firm's application was denied because "it does not appear possible at this time for Dagong to comply with the record keeping, production, and examination requirements of the federal securities laws," the SEC wrote in its order.

Dagong is the first firm to be denied by the SEC since the regulations governing the application process went into effect in 2007, an SEC official says.

The fact that Dagong isn't a U.S.-based firm wasn't an issue, the agency said. Ten rating firms have the SEC's stamp of approval, including U.S.-based Moody's Investors Service, part of Moody's Corp.; U.S.-based Standard & Poor's, part of McGraw-Hill Cos.; Fitch Ratings, part of France-based Fimalac SA, and DBRS Inc., based in Canada.

A spokesman for the SEC declined to comment on Dagong's statement Sunday.

Dagong said it aims to enter the U.S. market to protect China's interests as the largest creditor there. As of July, China held $846.7 billion worth of U.S. Treasurys, according to official U.S. data, which doesn't count all of China's holdings.

"As a Chinese credit rating agency, Dagong has the right to protect the creditor country's interest in the U.S. through rating operations," Dagong said.

The firm also said the SEC decision is a "purposeful" move to deny the company's rights to be heard in the international ratings market and a move to "protect the monopoly of the three largest rating agencies," Standard & Poor's, Moody's and Fitch Ratings.

Dagong surprised the credit-rating world in July when it published sovereign ratings for China that were higher than those for the U.S., the U.K., Japan and most other major economies. The results differed from those issued by major credit-rating firms.

Write to Joy C. Shaw at joy.shaw@dowjones.com

[Hari Seldon]

Lately with china in the news its mostly their arrogance.

Here another.

Posting in full (Subscription site)

Dagong Fires Back at SEC

Err, no. There's not as much arrogance as calculated provocation with express intent to play a victimized card down the line and create pressure points of its own against unkil or otherwise to disarm unkil's pressure points against itself.

Smartly played, IMHO.

I recall a movie I watched when I was little - shiva (*ing - Nagarjuna, Amala). Classic fight scene involving first fisticuffs b/w shiva and the bad guys happens in this dhaba kinda place. 2 thugs come to 'talk' to shiva. One sits in a chair opposite hiom at a table, the other guy walks around presumably looking at shop merchandise. However, the modus operandi is that while the first 'reasonable' thug engages shiva in deep conversation, the other thug will strike from behind - break a bottle on the head or something. Sadly for the bad guys, shiva figures the game out beforehand and even before the first guy settles down into the chair opposite - shiva raises the stakes calculatedly - splashes tea across the first thug's face. Creates a deep provocation, response to which unravels the modus operandi - throws the tag team out of whack. Great scene. Wonder if its available on youtube somewhere. You've to see it to see the footsie between unkil and chunkil. Overkill only. LOL.

[Sanjay M]

Thirty years of China's one-child policy

When China introduced its drastic population controls, officials promised that it would lift them after 30 years - an anniversary which falls this weekend. Malcolm Moore talks to families about what the one-child policy has meant to them.

[Sanjay M]

China Unveils “The Kashmir Card”
By Mohan Malik, Jamestown Foundation

Given the recent events, the obvious conclusion one reaches is this is the handy work of US and its partners. To me this sounds too simplistic and direct.
I am beginning to think the greatest beneficiary from this event will be China. In the past decade, China has invited and then copied all that they require from the western companies. We are now seeing the next phase being played out. Western companies are no longer welcome in China. The plan seems to be to create a bogey and then drop in as a savior and offer copied solutions.

Which bogey are you referring to, and which copied solutions?

It looks to me like the Chinese leadership are preparing for the coming turmoil of a post-bubble decline in economic growth (and thus in domestic stability) by upping the ante and making a concerted drive to dominate more natural resources around them. They hope that this will help them to step up their economic security and move to the next level of expansion of their power. They see that if they don't move to build up momentum now, then they could stall in the future.

I just don't see why the Chinese are stepping up their conflict with Japan, when the latter has been showing an inclination to defer to China.

I assume that the disproportionate influence of the PLA in Chinese decision-making means that the Chinese are reflexively prone towards confrontational maximalism, before later tempering their actions.

[shyam]

Post boom PRC is the new Japan before WWII

[TonyMontana]

I just don't see why the Chinese are stepping up their conflict with Japan, when the latter has been showing an inclination to defer to China.

Because the Chinese public eats it up.

[Cosmo_R]

@SanjayM ^^:

"I just don't see why the Chinese are stepping up their conflict with Japan, when the latter has been showing an inclination to defer to China."

The same could be said for India. Why are the PRC stepping up confrontation with India when MEA are so anxious to please?

The answer probably lies in what a recent article/comment by a PLA senior who said (paraphrasing) : "We don't care if India allies with the US or not. So, don't try to use it as a bargaining chip."

I'll try and find the link.

In short, if you can demonstrate to the ASEAN countries that Japan/India/SKorea can be 'bitch-slapped' and that their alliance with the US doesn't count for @@#$, you can tell the little guys: better 'negotiate' with us one on one to give us what we want.

Intimidate the big guys and the little ones will cave. Pure Sun Tzu.

IMHO, it's pure hubris. The PRC/PLA are buying into their own propaganda. Sorta reminds me of Japan 1930s challenging the US for the same reasons: oil, economic choke points IOW, a 'containment'.

This is going to a boon to the Mil-Ind complex (per Eisenhower). On top of $60bn in arms sales to KSA, you've now got gazillions in sales to SK/Japan/India/Malaysia. I think the Politburo just saved the F-35 program and probably topped up the next generation bomber program.

On a separate note. I attended QRC for 3 years way back.

[TonyMontana]

Post boom PRC is the new Japan before WWII

IMHO, it's pure hubris. The PRC/PLA are buying into their own propaganda. Sorta reminds me of Japan 1930s challenging the US for the same reasons: oil, economic choke points IOW, a 'containment'.

Except for the economic entanglement. Access to resources. Population size. Nuclear weapons. Difference in relative military power. And culture.

I wonder if this is the Asian version of Godwin's law.

[ramana]

Shalya Saradhyam is what is going on.

[shiv]

I admire your idealism, but I have a few thoughts on the issue.

If you look at the relevant literature there are only two routes that the world can take:
1) The USA model of pernicious resource exploitation, competition for such exploitation and enforced unequality
2) The "let us all preserve the world and not exploit it" model and try and make the world into Pandora of Avatar the movie where we Indians are the Na'vi

In this world, only the countries that take route 1 have the will and means to dominate. The US and China have taken that route. There is not a chance of a snowflake in hell of India being able to either dominate or survive without being greedy and exploitative.

I don't agree with that at all. We just need to have faith in ourselves and if there is a way, we need to spend all our resources (Human) to find that way. There can be a an Ideal nation which by using innovation and technology can become a non-greedy and non-exploiting nation and show the path to others. Thats what we were in the pre-british and pre-moghul times. The only mistake was we took the AHIMSA too seriously and cherished peace even at the helm of annihilation. Its just a dream, but I believe that given enough time and determination, any dream can be realized.

Personally I agree with your viewpoint. But there is a caveat to holding that view. The spectacularly greedy "America" like civilization is impossible with what you have stated. China is attempting to achieve that spectacular, extraordinarily greedy "America-like" civilization - having constructed America like glass and concrete urban jungles and going the America route of one man one car. If we want to be like America or China we have to do what they did or are doing despite the fact that it is currently unsustainable environmentally or resource wise. If we aim for "less" we will be "less"

[praksam]

Tony Montana ji Is this True?
Chinese are facing bigger more pressing issues of 2 to 1 male to female imbalance; China the baby girl exporter might turn into net women importer
According to official statistics, for every 100 girls there are 197 boys. By 2020 it is thought there will be 50 million men who cannot find a wife. In a culture where marriage and reproduction are considered the highest moral duties the result is a social time bomb.”

http://investmentwatchblog.com/chinese- ... mentWatch)

[TonyMontana]

Tony Montana ji Is this True?
Chinese are facing bigger more pressing issues of 2 to 1 male to female imbalance; China the baby girl exporter might turn into net women importer
According to official statistics, for every 100 girls there are 197 boys. By 2020 it is thought there will be 50 million men who cannot find a wife. In a culture where marriage and reproduction are considered the highest moral duties the result is a social time bomb.”

http://investmentwatchblog.com/chinese- ... mentWatch)

Sure, why not? Someone came up with these numbers so they must have some sort of basis right? As Indians, you should know how hard it is to find a wife. For us, it's not the "boy-met-girl, fall in love, get married" story. It's the "boy-meet-girl-that-parents-liked, must find money to buy house, get married" story. Am I right fellas?

Even if there is a 1:1 ratio of boy/girl in China, heaps of dudes won't get wives, cause they don't pass the "good family" clause.

Besides, it's not like there will be millions of Chinese men that rages because they never had sex. And, people get divorced all the time. The girl might not be so picky the second time around.

[praksam]

Besides, it's not like there will be millions of Chinese men that rages because they never had sex

Haha, Thats where the Chinese barber shops comes handy right,

Mods, Sorry if OT.

[TonyMontana]

Besides, it's not like there will be millions of Chinese men that rages because they never had sex

Haha, Thats where the Chinese barber shops comes handy right,hand shakes eh

Mods, Sorry if OT.

Just doing their part for the GDP. Domestic consumption is all the rage now days.

[Cosmo_R]

Post boom PRC is the new Japan before WWII

IMHO, it's pure hubris. The PRC/PLA are buying into their own propaganda. Sorta reminds me of Japan 1930s challenging the US for the same reasons: oil, economic choke points IOW, a 'containment'.

Except for the economic entanglement. Access to resources. Population size. Nuclear weapons. Difference in relative military power. And culture.

I wonder if this is the Asian version of Godwin's law.

Dunno about Godwin's Law because :

"Godwin's law itself can be abused, as a distraction, diversion or even censorship, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons. Similar criticisms of the "law" (or "at least the distorted version which purports to prohibit all comparisons to German crimes") have been made by Glenn Greenwald" (Wikipedia).

Interesting choice of handles though. Out of sheer curiosity is the TonyMontana from here

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0598940/bio

or here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Montana

Not that there's anything wrong with either one of course. Just genuinely curious. I believe in big tents.

[TonyMontana]

Interesting choice of handles though. Out of sheer curiosity is the TonyMontana from here

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0598940/bio

or here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Montana

Not that there's anything wrong with either one of course. Just genuinely curious. I believe in big tents.

LOL. Didn't know about the poor bast@ard with AIDS. I guess "say hello to my little friend" will never be the same huh?

But to answer your question: "Chi Chi, get the yeyo."

[sanjaykumar]

Sure, why not? Someone came up with these numbers so they must have some sort of basis right? As Indians, you should know how hard it is to find a wife. For us, it's not the "boy-met-girl, fall in love, get married" story. It's the "boy-meet-girl-that-parents-liked, must find money to buy house, get married" story. Am I right fellas?

Even if there is a 1:1 ratio of boy/girl in China, heaps of dudes won't get wives, cause they don't pass the "good family" clause.

Besides, it's not like there will be millions of Chinese men that rages because they never had sex. And, people get divorced all the time. The girl might not be so picky the second time around.


This is pure rationalisation for the sake of the glorious revolution i.e. make believe.

Mao offered Nixon the export Chinese women, perhaps there is a market for Chinese men. The only good thing is that Chinese women seem to be less enamored of western men as their economy develops, enlarging slightly the pool available to the men.

The gender imbalance will only compound China's problems of an aging society-as in physically caring for the several hundred million aged coming on stream over the next three to four decades.


This should be very interesting- a demographic IED set by their own hand.

[Cosmo_R]

Interesting choice of handles though. Out of sheer curiosity is the TonyMontana from here

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0598940/bio

or here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Montana

Not that there's anything wrong with either one of course. Just genuinely curious. I believe in big tents.

LOL. Didn't know about the poor bast@ard with AIDS. I guess "say hello to my little friend" will never be the same huh?

But to answer your question: "Chi Chi, get the yeyo."

Oh! and sorry to hear about your little friend.

[TonyMontana]

This is pure rationalisation for the sake of the glorious revolution i.e. make believe.

Of cause. I'm no sociologist. But having no wife to deal with might be a blessing in disguise. Eh guys?

Mao offered Nixon the export Chinese women, perhaps there is a market for Chinese men. The only good thing is that Chinese women seem to be less enamored of western men as their economy develops, enlarging slightly the pool available to the men.

Doubt it.

The gender imbalance will only compound China's problems of an aging society-as in physically caring for the several hundred million aged coming on stream over the next three to four decades.

Indeed, up to this point all my living grand parents are still supported by their children. Their pension is pretty sad. My parent's generation are saving for retirement, with me topping up anything unexpected. There need to be a welfare revolution in China.

This should be very interesting- a demographic IED set by their own hand.

It is indeed interesting. All the popultaion inbalances from history are generally a shortage of men due to wars. Can you think of one case in history where men out number women? So yea, will be interesting to see how it developes.

[Austin]

Russia to begin 2nd stage of Tianwan nuclear power plant construction next year

Russia, China to sign gas supplies contracts next year - Russian deputy PM

[Dhiman]

I admire your idealism, but I have a few thoughts on the issue.

If you look at the relevant literature there are only two routes that the world can take:
1) The USA model of pernicious resource exploitation, competition for such exploitation and enforced unequality
2) The "let us all preserve the world and not exploit it" model and try and make the world into Pandora of Avatar the movie where we Indians are the Na'vi

In this world, only the countries that take route 1 have the will and means to dominate. The US and China have taken that route. There is not a chance of a snowflake in hell of India being able to either dominate or survive without being greedy and exploitative.

Sir,

In western and middle-eastern cultures, usually the first desire plays a more significant role then the second and there is a historical basis for this. Most western countries are extremely cold and historically it has been difficult to grow food or gather plant food there (same with middle-eastern countries). So survival ensured, that one had to kill other animals and eat their flesh and also use their hide as clothing. One could not survive without doing so. Survival also ensured that one had to find a suitable shelter against cold and be able to protect it against other humans and animals.

In India, we have historically been blessed with an extremely conductive environment for human living. Rivers in India don't freeze up, plants don't necessary die over the winter, forests don't necessarily shed all their leaves and go into hibernation, historically one can easily live of plant food all year round, the function of clothing is generally to cover yourself rather than to protect yourself against elements of nature, and if you don't find shelter you can just sleep outside for most of the year.

I guess what I am saying is that historical and evolutionary factors have ensured that western and middle-eastern cultures are conditioned towards exploiting nature around them for their survival and growth. Those same evolutionary factors have been absent in much of Indian subcontinent and upto the extent that historically one has been survive and grow without the need for exploiting nature and hence Hindus in general have this whole philosophy and lifestyle live in sync with nature.

So, now that we live in modern times, somebody basically needs to teach these people (middle-east / western cultures) to toss aside their mindless evolutionary reaction to conquer and dominate around them.

At the same time, we ourselves need to get more proactive in defending our turf against our evolutionary reaction which basically tells us that there is really no need to do so to guard against cultures whose survival has depended upon exploiting nature around them. Usually in modern times there is a balance between human impulse to "dominate, exploit, and be greedy" vs. "live in sync with nature". Its just a matter of which side India will put more weight on as it develops.

So where does this leave China? Not sure, but I can tell you for sure that some of the oldest philosophy on "authoritarianism" originated in China. Like we have multiple works focusing on Dharma, the Chinese have multiple works focusing on authoritarianism. Authoritarianism is not just a CCP trait, its a Chinese trait. I am sure their must be evolutionary reasons for this, but again, we need to be more proactive in guarding against this Chinese inclination towards authoritarianism.

So if someone tells me that one needs to be greedy and exploitative to survive and grow, I would tell them this is a western/middle-eastern trait. If someone tells me that one needs a strong central authority in to survive and grow, I would tell them that is a Chinese trait. If someone tells me one needs to live in sync with nature without exploiting nature, I would tell them that's an Indian trait.

I don't necessarily claim this to be "absolute truth" or the "entire complete truth", but I hope I am making sense

[TonyMontana]

Oh! and sorry to hear about your little friend.

My little friend is just fine. Thanks for the concern. All lubed and loaded, ready for action. Might need to get a better mount for it tho. After the last time I dragged it though the bush, it was spraying all over the show.

We are talking about the AR-15 he used in the film right?

[chaanakya]

All the popultaion inbalances from history are generally a shortage of men due to wars. Can you think of one case in history where men out number women? So yea, will be interesting to see how it developes.

Could you elaborate on that postulate as it applies to China?

Its an interesting observation stemming from WWI and WWII but many countries have not actually participated in these wars to that extent as to cause depletion of man population.

[RajeshA]

Of cause. I'm no sociologist. But having no wife to deal with might be a blessing in disguise. Eh guys?

TonyMontana ji,
there are more appropriate places on the Web, where you could look for gays!

[AKalam]

Personally I agree with your viewpoint. But there is a caveat to holding that view. The spectacularly greedy "America" like civilization is impossible with what you have stated. China is attempting to achieve that spectacular, extraordinarily greedy "America-like" civilization - having constructed America like glass and concrete urban jungles and going the America route of one man one car. If we want to be like America or China we have to do what they did or are doing despite the fact that it is currently unsustainable environmentally or resource wise. If we aim for "less" we will be "less"

Theoretically, there can be such a country. Just for the argument sake, we need lot of energy for our growth. Economical growth and military muscle are directly proportional. So, the best thing we can do is what exactly America did and the new asian bandar is trying to imitate. That is practicality and I completely concur. But why people wish to observe a wrong method and just simply try to follow it, to have the gains at an expense on the corpses of innocents? We can always think alternate methods by bringing Innovation. Why not invest Billions of dollars to expand the Nuclear generation capacity and invest on RnD to innovate and build Thorium cycle? Why not take a lead in the Research of Fusion reactors? Why not invest and nurture Energy plants based on reverse osmosis? Why not be energy efficient so that we rely less on imports and need not fight like mad dogs with the other bull dogs called Ameerkhan and chipanda? Why not research unconventional methods for energy generation? Why not make it a rule to build only energy efficient constructions and incorporate energy efficient and eco-friendly methods in any construction that uses steel and concrete? I agree its a pipe dream, but my direction is definitely not wrong. This approach may not yeild results immediately, but rest assured, 100 years the down the line we would had already set an example to the whole world before we could even realize.

I personally feel that there are more than one ways to climb the ladder especially not what ameerkhan and chipanda are doing, by stepping on the heads of weak and less privileged and using greed as the only direction. It just needs a different set of eyes to find the alternate way and maybe that is what we call being Creative is being master of simple things.

I also believe that India should not engage in the rat race like the West and Chinese. India might be able to show to the world that another way is possible. Why not invest in a superb new clear MAD program to take care of defence and bypass the expensive military industrial complex route.

Ultimately the power of a nation is a function of the power of the brains of its population. To maximize that, one needs to ensure good nutrition, good clean environment (the less toxic air,water and food the better), education (information availability as and when needed) and some light of spirituality that fills so many existential voids - all the useless material junks and toys are just that useless in achieving permanent power and keeping it. Consumerism, consumption and the economic growth model is more of an obstacle and not necessarily the surest route to power and development for the coming future.

There are 6 billion plus people on this planet, in a few decades the population will peak at 9 billion or so. A good portion, I would say more than 60-70% will never reach the consumption level of the rest of the "rich" folks, they need an alternate model to empower themselves, poor in material terms but powerful in knowledge, skills, health and mental stability.

And when the time and inclination is right, one can of course try some ideas I have mentioned earlier, such as an EU style SAARC regional integration, which can be another model for increasing indigenous power for many regions of the world (Africa, Latin America etc.), where Unity rather than Division can lead to increasing power. Past should not be a burden and baggage for the future, but can be an asset if Historical Continuity is harnessed coupled with pragmatism and innovation.

[RajeshA]

I also believe that India should not engage in the rat race like the West and Chinese. India might be able to show to the world that another way is possible. Why not invest in a superb new clear MAD program to take care of defence and bypass the expensive military industrial complex route.

This is a very inadvisable route. The hard power of a country is based on having the right tools of coercion for the right type of challenge. This means one needs to have security forces across the spectrum - from crowd control, to fighting organized crime, to intelligence networks, to special forces, to assassination squads, to weaponized drones, to rapid strike forces, to invasion armies, to space weaponry, to aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, to nuclear missiles.

Every situation and challenge needs a very finely tuned response for maximum effect. If a country does not have the necessary machinery to offer that response, it would tend to act too strongly but most probably not at all, in both cases harming its own national interests.

One needs across the spectrum capability and leadership.

Somewhat OT here!

[TonyMontana]

Could you elaborate on that postulate as it applies to China?

Its an interesting observation stemming from WWI and WWII but many countries have not actually participated in these wars to that extent as to cause depletion of man population.

To be honest? I have no idea. I remember reading an article sometimes ago about gender imbalance post WW2 in the USSR and Europe. But as I recall, the conclusion was along the lines of, life sucked, people dealt with it, it got better. My point was that, I don't think this has happened before, so, your guess is as good as mine on what will happen.

there are more appropriate places on the Web, where you could look for gays!

ZING!