Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 14 Sep 2010 07:42

Nothing glamorous but it will keep the spirit of Indo - Israeli friendship going.

Israel granted honorary citizenship Monday to an Indian woman who braved gunfire to save an Israeli boy from the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks that killed his parents. The woman, Sandra Samuel, rescued the boy, Moshe Holtzberg, who was almost 2 at the time, from a Jewish center attacked by Islamic militants.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/world ... SRAEL.html

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 19 Sep 2010 08:53

vina wrote:
The Indian and western calendars were in since when the Julian calendar was adopted exactly 2010 years ago (that is why it is 2010 today!) becuase when it was adopted, Julian was accurate. But now they have drifted apart. That is why you see in the news of scientists resetting their clocks by a couple of seconds every couple of years to keep that drift in control. Or else, in another 300/400 years, Dec 25 will be in Fall and March 25 will be in deep winter!

Sirji,
Wikipedia Says:
"The Julian calendar, a reform of the Roman calendar, was introduced by Julius Caesar in 46 BC, and came into force in 45 BC (709 ab urbe condita). It was chosen after consultation with the astronomer Sosigenes of Alexandria and was probably designed to approximate the tropical year, known at least since Hipparchus. It has a regular year of 365 days divided into 12 months, and a leap day is added to February every four years. Hence the Julian year is on average 365.25 days long."
It is 2010 AD now, where AD stands for Anno Domni, or year of Our Lord (Jesus Christ that is). I could talk about the India sidereal system too, but I am afraid it will be OT.
Gautam

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Sep 2010 09:45

Check

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Sep 2010 14:09

I deleted both the post and the response. if people can't post minus generalisations that are likely to lead to a flame war, mods will sometimes take the easy way out by deleting ALL offending posts.
you can post it again without the unnecessary generalisation.

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Sep 2010 07:27

deleted.

p.s. kindly understand the import of my last mod action and do not try these stunts. I/we may not be as forgiving the next time.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Sep 2010 22:48

^^^ Like always expect US to come to its help and water it down.

"As expected of a democratic country, Israel has been -- and still is -- investigating the events of the Gaza flotilla," said a statement released by the Israeli foreign ministry late Wednesday night.

"The report... is as biased and as one sided as the body that has produced it," the statement said.

Seems like they have borrowed some tricks from Pakistan still investigation and biased

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 23 Sep 2010 23:00

I think UN is wrong on this one.Israel has the right to blockade any ship which it suspects to be against its security.The turks were wrong in sending the ship inspite of knowing that there is a blockade going on.That was clearly intended to provoke Israel.The turkish members in the ship did not help matters by displaying their pakiness.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Sep 2010 23:28

I think Turkey screwed up this one badly. If they wanted to undermine Israel, they could have held out longer and kept their cards close to their chest and quietly increased influence while playing lip service to Israel. Instead they showed their hand and decided to alienate themselves from their most important allies. Let's see if Turkey gets the JSF.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 24 Sep 2010 01:54

The commandos carried cameras because they knew they would be attacked the moment they landed on the ship, the next time a cop stops you at a traffic stop try charging at him with a iron rod and experience the consequences. If the 'peaceful' members of the flotilla just wanted to make a case for the international community, they could have protested without attacking commandos with knives and rods. Israel has every right to protect herself, Turkey had been requested multiple times not to allow the flotilla.
The neo-islamic brotherhood and their white western/scandinavian counterparts will try this trick over and over again.Probably the next time Israel should just mine the waters and let the flotilla organizers well in advance.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 24 Sep 2010 06:53

deleted.

archan · Post by **archan** » 24 Sep 2010 17:20

Gentlemen, please note that this is the India-Israel thread. Please post news and discussion pertaining to Indo-Israeli relations only. Thanks.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 25 Sep 2010 05:17

archan wrote:Gentlemen, please note that this is the India-Israel thread. Please post news and discussion pertaining to Indo-Israeli relations only. Thanks.

I absolutely agree with you. This is the Indo-Israel thread and there is no need to post extraneous items in it, unless one wishes simply to spew bile on Israel. Thank you for stating the obvious.

Shalom
S.Adler

arun · Post by **arun** » 25 Sep 2010 13:54

archan wrote:Gentlemen, please note that this is the India-Israel thread. Please post news and discussion pertaining to Indo-Israeli relations only. Thanks.

Thank you for providing a clear statement on what led to the deleting of my post, namely that it was an Off Topic Post as it did not fit into the realm of Indo-Israel News.

In mitigation may I say that the June 01, 2010 posting on Page 27 of this very thread on the Marvi Maramara episode, which you would be aware was also what my deleted post was about, by Moderator Rahul M led me to the erroneous conclusion that it was alright to post on that matter on this thread.

Anyway following your clarification I shall now repost the deleted post in the West Asia News & Discussion thread where it would not be off topic.

Namaskar

Arun

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 28 Sep 2010 09:54

India's to build UAVs in joint venture

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 285615764/

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 29 Sep 2010 09:35

On September 23, Colonel M S Jodha of the Indian Army journeyed to Haifa in Israel, to lay a wreath at the special war memorial that honours his grandfather, Captain Bahadur Aman Singh Jodha, his regiment and other co-regiments.

At his side was India's Ambassador to Israel Navtej Sarna who recalled Captain Bahadur Aman Singh Jodha and his men at the touching ceremony.

Thousands of Indian soldiers saw action in this sunny Mediterranean town, in this theatre of war, during World War I.

And it was the Indians that saved the day.

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/ ... heroes.htm

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 11 Oct 2010 01:28

Israel and India move toward free trade pact
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/ ... 1&fid=1725

This is good. I hope such a kind of great and peaceful cooperation continue. This will benefit both countries.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Oct 2010 04:29

joshvajohn wrote:Israel and India move toward free trade pact
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/ ... 1&fid=1725

This is good. I hope such a kind of great and peaceful cooperation continue. This will benefit both countries.

Why would this be beneficial? Israel is a small country and they are getting such a huge market. What is India getting?

I'm not saying it is not beneficial or it is. I just want to know why!

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 11 Oct 2010 07:18

I agree, not sure how much India can gain from free trade of goods with such a small market. However, striking agreements in other areas could be beneficial, Israel would get access to a giant labor pool and Israeli designed goods could be manufactured in India etc.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 11 Oct 2010 07:53

RajeshA wrote:
joshvajohn wrote:Israel and India move toward free trade pact
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/ ... 1&fid=1725

This is good. I hope such a kind of great and peaceful cooperation continue. This will benefit both countries.
Why would this be beneficial? Israel is a small country and they are getting such a huge market. What is India getting?

I'm not saying it is not beneficial or it is. I just want to know why!

Rajesh, Carl, why don't you look up the dollar value of Israel's exports and imports, and compare it to India's? That should help answer your question. One really shouldn't assume that market size is directly proportional to population size.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 8rank.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 7rank.html

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 11 Oct 2010 08:51

Interview with Orna Sagiv, Consul General, Israel

The current bilateral trade between Israel and India is around $4.4 billion and is expected to cross $5 billion by the end of 2010. Considering that the bilateral trade was $180 million in 1992, when the full diplomatic relations between the two countries were established, the growth so far has been phenomenal.

The trade potential between the two countries is enormous as the two economies are not competing, but complementing each other. Starting from agro technology to aerospace technology, both countries have a lot to offer to each other.

Some Indian companies have already discovered the potential of Israel and set up offices there. Recently, there was news that the State Bank of India achieved break-even within two years of its operation in Israel.

Though the takeover of Israeli pharma company Taro went through a stormy weather, the Israeli Supreme Court recently gave a decision in favour of Sun Pharmaceuticals, underscoring a fair litigation process. TCS and Jain Irrigation have big operation centres in Israel.

We are looking forward to see more leading Indian companies investing in Israel in the near future. Israel's branding as a high-tech economy or a start-up nation has got registered in India, and I believe the full potential is still to be exposed.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Oct 2010 16:49

Last I remember, Israel has a ridiculous array of access agreements with the EU. We need as many stepping stones as we can get into that market.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 12 Oct 2010 00:26

JE Menon wrote:Last I remember, Israel has a ridiculous array of access agreements with the EU. We need as many stepping stones as we can get into that market.

Not just the EU, but the United States as well - both of the wealthiest markets in the world.

Israel is a country which given its limited natural resources and labour pool must import to export, and must export high-value goods and services.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 12 Oct 2010 09:48

Admiral Verma, who left for Israel on Monday, is slated to hold talks with Israeli defence minister Ehud Barak, chief of staff Gabi Ashkenazi and Navy chief Eliezer Marom during his four-day visit.

This comes at a time when the focus in the bilateral defence relationship is on having various joint R&D projects -- from high-endurance and rotary UAVs, submarine-launched cruise missiles and anti-ballistic missile systems to network-centric operations, micro-satellite surveillance systems, advanced precision-guided munitions (PGMs) and third-generation night-vision devices.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 730909.cms

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Oct 2010 15:15

Forgotten fact of Indian military history-a gallant action by Indian troops in Palestine.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Naval-chi ... 12249.aspx

Naval chief visits Haifa; pays homage to fallen Indian soldiers
Press Trust Of India
Haifa, October 13, 2010 (13/10/2010)

Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Nirmal Verma today visited the memorial of fallen Indian soldiers, who showed exemplary courage in the liberation of this Israeli city during World War I, and paid tribute by laying a wreath. He was joined at the ceremony by his Israeli counterpart Eliezer Marom on whose invitation he is paying a four day visit to Israel to promote "service to service cooperation". A large number of Indian soldiers sacrificed their lives in this region during the World War I, and nearly 900 were cremated or buried in cemeteries across Israel.

A unique ceremony commemorating their sacrifice was observed this year of September 22 as part of the Haifa Day celebrations. The Indian army commemorates September 23rd every year as Haifa Day to pay its respects to the two brave Indian Cavalry Regiments that helped liberate the city in 1918 following a dashing cavalry action by the 15th Imperial Service Cavalry Brigade.

In the autumn of that year, the Brigade was a part of the Allied Forces sweeping northwards through Palestine in what is seen as the last great cavalry campaign in history. "No more remarkable cavalry action of its scale was fought in the whole course of the campaign. Machine gun bullets over and over again failed to stop the galloping horses even though many of them succumbed afterwards to their injuries", is how the Official History of the War 'Military operation Egypt and Palestine: volume 2' describes the Indian troops bravery.

Captain Aman Singh Bahadur and Dafadar Jor Singh were awarded the Indian Order of Merit (IOM) and Captain Anop Singh and 2nd Lt Sagat Singh were awarded the Military Cross (MC) as recognition for their bravery in this battle. Major Dalpat Singh (MC) is known in the annals of history as the "Hero of Haifa" for his critical role in the Liberation of the city.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Nov 2010 20:27

Names You Need To Know In 2011: Indo-Israeli Alliance

Israel has become one of India’s largest military suppliers, while India has assisted Israel in the naval sphere. Israel, the No. 1 foreign issuer on the NASDAQ stock exchange, is investing in many Indian companies, while India has become one of Israel’s top trading partners in Asia.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 22 Nov 2010 04:52

VinodTK wrote:Names You Need To Know In 2011: Indo-Israeli Alliance

Israel has become one of India’s largest military suppliers, while India has assisted Israel in the naval sphere. Israel, the No. 1 foreign issuer on the NASDAQ stock exchange, is investing in many Indian companies, while India has become one of Israel’s top trading partners in Asia.

For such a relationship to be sustainable, it has to be a win-win situation. That means that Israeli companies must be able to use Indian strengths, and not just take in natural resources from India or simply look at India as a market for Israeli goods. Israel should utilize India's tremendous technical skills, where feasible go for joint development of high-tech systems which Israel would not be otherwise able to pursue given the limited size of its domestic market. One obviously important area where I hope India develops sufficient know-how is aircraft engines. India already has a home-grown fighter aircraft, something Israel struggled to achieve despite pouring in significant resources. While a lot of Israelis are sanguine about it, i personally am not. I dont like this huge overdependence on US for all of our air force. Another area where India is already far ahead is naval ship-building. I think if India licks the technical issues in its current engine development program for its LCA, and come up with a strong R&D and manufacturing base to develop aircraft engines, i can easily envisage (or may be this is just naive hope on my part) India and Israel co-developing light fighters which would complement India's on-going co-venture with Russia for the heavier aircraft. I was really disappointed when we dropped the kfir project and buckled to US pressure. I guess it just became expedient to buy F16's.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Nov 2010 15:47

On a general level, there is tremendous returns to be made by leveraging Israeli access and market knowledge in several key growing parts of the world (think Eastern/Central Europe) and Indian economies of scale for Israeli, Indian and Indo-Israeli products. The same approach can be had for Israeli and Indo-Israeli products in South-East Asia where India has excellent access.

Not that both countries don't independently have access to these markets, but the combination can add value and allow both to punch above their weights at the moment.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 23 Nov 2010 09:39

JE Menon wrote:.................but the combination can add value and allow both to punch above their weights at the moment.

Thank you for saying in less than a sentence what i struggled to say in an entire paragraph. Shalom.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 27 Nov 2010 13:09

26/11 brings India, Israel closer
Sify

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 27 Nov 2010 20:40

Indian president backs return of Golan to Syria

Pratibha Patil visits Damascus in bid to improve economic ties between two countries. In joint press conference, Assad accuses Israel of hindering regional economic development with policies that prevent peace
AFP
Indian President Pratibha Patil said Saturday that she supports Syria's demand for Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights.

In a joint press conference with Patil, who is on a visit to Syria aimed at boosting economic ties, Syrian President Bashar Assad said the lack of peace in the region was interfering with efforts at economic developments.

"The lack of peace in our region, due to Israeli policies and despite Syrian efforts, intensifies tensions and hinders efforts at economic development," Assad said.

"Only peace based on international decisions and the principle of land for peace can guarantee stability and prosperity in the Middle East and throughout the world."

The Syrian president also expressed hope that Syria and India, together with the international community, would succeed in "ending the suffering of the Palestinian people".

Assad also lauded Iran, which announced Saturday that it had succeeded in getting its nuclear plant in Bushehr up and running.

"Iran and all other nations have the right to make use of nuclear energy for peaceful aims," he said.

Syrian President Bashar Assad said Saturday in a joint conference with his Indian counterpart that the lack of peace in the Middle East hinders economic development efforts.

Indian President Pratibha Patil, visiting Syria to boost economic ties between the two countries, said she supports "the right of Syria to recover the occupied Golan Heights in full". (AFP)

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Dec 2010 05:15

Wikileaks: 2009-05-15
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/20 ... V1098.html

SUBJECT: ISRAEL, A PROMISED LAND FOR ORGANISED CRIME?

Summary
---------

¶1. (SBU) Organized crime (OC) has longstanding roots in Israel, but
in recent years there has been a sharp increase in the reach and
impact of OC networks. In seeking a competitive advantage in such
lucrative trades as narcotics and prostitution, Israeli crime groups
have demonstrated their ability and willingness to engage in violent
attacks on each other with little regard for innocent bystanders.
The Israeli National Police (INP) and the courts have engaged in a
vigorous campaign against organized crime leaders, including the
creation of a new specialized anti-OC unit, but they remain unable
to cope with the full scope of the problem. Organized crime in
Israel now has global reach, with direct impact inside the United
States. Post is currently utilizing all available tools to deny
Israeli OC figures access to the United States in order to prevent
them from furthering their criminal activities on U.S. soil. End
Summary.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 02 Jan 2011 05:08

Egyptian clearance for Gaza aid convoy

The 'Asia to Gaza Caravan' consists of activists from more than 15 Asian countries, including India, Iran, Japan, Indonesia, Pakistan, Malaysia, New Zealand and Kuwait.

It appears to be a private initiative without GOI support:

Feroze Mithiborwala from India (R), who is leading the "Asia 1" convoy, delivers a gift to Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal during a meeting with his group in Damascus December 22, 2010. The convoy of more than a hundred volunteers from several Asian countries arrived in Syria as they travel to the Gaza Strip carrying humanitarian aid. The convoy is expected to arrive next week through the Egyptian port of al-Arish and by crossing Rafah . REUTERS/Khaled al-Hariri.

Mithiborwala, 43, is the “national coordinator” of the Free Gaza movement in India. He says he became involved with the Palestinian question 23 years ago with the first Intifada in 1987. “I realized early on that Palestinian question is the central geopolitical question of our times. It’s a moral issue of our age,” he said. “There’s an increased Zionist lobby in the security apparatus of India and its damaging and undermining our country’s sovereignty,” he said.

Asia-to-Gaza founder talks to Ahram Online

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 02 Jan 2011 05:36

Airavat wrote:Egyptian clearance for Gaza aid convoy
The 'Asia to Gaza Caravan' consists of activists from more than 15 Asian countries, including India, Iran, Japan, Indonesia, Pakistan, Malaysia, New Zealand and Kuwait.
It appears to be a private initiative without GOI support:

From the above link,

According to Asia to Gaza’s website, the convoy or “caravan” consists of Muslims, Christians, Jews and Buddhists and an alliance of people's organisations, social movements, trade unions and civil society institutions of Asia.

No Hindus ? or the leftist Hindus are ashamed to call themselves Hindus ?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Jan 2011 01:44

Shades of Pakistan:

http://nymag.com/news/features/70310/index1.html
About Martin Peretz:

Even Israel worries him now. “There are very many ways,” Peretz admits, “in which Israel is getting worse.” The early leaders of Israel, he says, were all kibbutzniks and ascetics; now he sees a gaudy oligarchy, with twenty business groups, many of them built from single families, that control a quarter of the country’s large companies. When he visits Jerusalem—“a very poor city”—he notices ultra-Orthodox boys running everywhere, and he disdains the sanctimony of the very religious and the “superpatriotism” of the Russian immigrants. And yet set against these growing groups is only a tiny liberal society.....

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 08 Jan 2011 06:11

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/31/world ... athan.html

The find means that Israel, with a long history of dependence on foreign energy, and hostility and boycotts from many of the biggest energy powers, could find itself in a much more advantageous position in the coming decade.

What is good for Israel is good for Bharat. Congrats to Israel for finally being energy surplus.
Hope India too becomes energy surplus soon! Solar Energy + Nuke energy could do the job for India.

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 08 Jan 2011 07:53

BJP president Nitin Gadkari and his delegation just returned from Israel after Five days friendly visit.

Gadkari’s delegation included Ramlal, general secrerary (organisation), Vasundhara Raje, former Rajasthan Chief Minister and party general secretary, the BJP Kisan Morcha leaders OP Dhankad and Satpal Malik and former MPs Subhash Deshmukh and Manvendra Singh.

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who was pre-occupied with a crucial vote in Knesset due a rift in the ruling coalition threatening the survival of his government, did speak to Nitin Gadkari to share India’s security concerns and reaffirm Israel’s commitment to promote Indo-Israel cooperation in fighting terrorism in all its manifestations.

The Deputy Prime Minister holding the portfolio of Intelligence Affairs held a structured meeting with Gadkari and his delegation on a wide-range of issues of mutual interest and common concern.

The need to further promote people-to-people contact was underscored by the former Foreign Affairs Minister and the leader of the opposition in Israeli Knesset, Ms Tzipi Livni and the leader of the opposition Kadima Party, Ms Rachel Adatto.

One noteworthy point which figured in all the high-level political interaction Gadkari had in Israel was Tel Aviv’s keen desire to promote bilateral visits at the highest political level.

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/module ... 379&page=4

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Mar 2011 11:49

X posted American diplomatic cable authored by former US Ambassador to India David Mulford leaked by Wikileaks and published by the Hindu on the supposedly Israeli view of Indo-Israel relations:

Israel polishing its image — and its hardware — in India

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Mar 2011 21:19

Two x-posts by tsarkar....

tsarkar wrote:^^ Vinod & other members - Request you to check the content before posting. The basic news - Spike purchase - has already been posted. The rest of the news article is utter rubbish. It is not worthy giving publicity to rubbish.

I doubt the Spike purchase news anyways - there was no corresponding news of DAC/CCS clearance. For upgraded BMPs upgraded Konkurs M is in production. Every news agency is copy pasting the single defense news article - a US publication - that started the chain.

And regarding Indian relations with Israel, that started in the 50's, 40 odd years before BJP came to power. India diverted part of its Dassault Ouragan orders & spares to Israel in the 50's when Israel was facing sanctions. And Israel provided some of its Finnish Tampella mortars for mountain warfare when we were hard pressed during 1962.

and

tsarkar wrote:pib.nic.in

When Indian Centurion tanks were retired around 1982, I believe the Israelis and South Africans purchased our entire stock of spares, et al. Apparently PIO in South Africa supported the apartheid regime because the community prospered and brokered the deal...

Added later - And the information is no longer a state secret! LINK
That country was under sanctions in 1982, our friendly Cuban in T55s were in Angola fighting Indian supplied Centurions.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 01 Apr 2011 13:45

http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2 ... oil-trade/

Anyway, Israelis have launched a blistering tirade against the Indian-Iranian arrangement to transfer payments for oil trade via the German bank EIH.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 02 Apr 2011 09:16

the Israel-Iran rivalry is one of the most meaningless in modern history. when two countries don't share a border, when they have a common feeling of mistrust for the same group (Israel against Arabs b/c they are surrounded, Iran b/c of age old rivalry with Arabs), those two countries can cooperate in many spheres to achieve their national objectives. instead, the Iranians go out and talk about wiping Israel off the map, and given Jewish history, they respond to it with seriousness that Iranians really do mean it, which they might. once again, sounds like an artificial rivalry with no sound basis in geopolitics. geopolitically speaking there is ample reason for Iran and Israel to be friends or at the least be neutral to each other.

b/c Israel is ultimately reliant on US/UK for protection, and US/UK have largely vested interest in keeping Iran down, this US/UK objective has been transferred to Israel with the Iranians cluelessly playing the role of the evil villain.