Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

srai · Post by **srai** » 10 Dec 2010 07:18

This is going to be a running list ... whenever IAF gets a new PGM, this list will be updated:

Some more updates with numbers:

A list of current/planned PGMs in IAF's inventory (1980-2010):

LGB

315 x Paveway II LGB (1,000lb GP bomb) -> Mirage-2000, Jaguar [any aircraft with Litening pod]
100+(~1,000*) x Griffin 3 LGB (1,000lb GP bomb) -> Jaguar, MiG-27UPG (?), Su-30MKI (?) [any aircraft with Litening pod]
xx Sudarshan LGB (450kg HSLD bomb or 1,000lb GP) -> Jaguar (first tested with) [any aircraft with Litening pod]
500 x KAB-500Kr/KAB-1500Kr (500kg/1,500kg bomb) -> MiG-21 Bison [KAB-500], Su-30MKI [KAB-500/1500]
~100**(?) x Matra BGL (1,000kg bomb) -> Mirage-2000
510 x CBU-105 WCMD (1,000lb bomb) -> Mirage-2000, Jaguar [probably will require some adaption for Russian aircrafts]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total LGB (in-service/ordered) -> 2,525 ****

ASM

250 x Kh-23 (287kg) -> MiG-27ML (retired?)
600 x Kh-25MP/MLT (315kg) -> MiG-27ML (retired?)
200 x Kh-31A1/P (600kg) -> Su-30MKI
100 x Kh-59ME (930kg) -> Su-30MKI
~50 x AS-30L (520kg) -> Mirage-2000
24*** x Sea Eagle (580kg) -> Jaguar IM (to be replaced by 24 x Harpoon) [total including IN stock is 160 Sea Eagles]
200(?) x Brahmos (2,500kg) -> Su-30MKI [total planned units 1,000 SSM/ASM variants for all services]
30 x Crystal Maze (3,000lb) -> Mirage-2000
xx "K" series Air-Launched Article (2,000kg) -> Su-30MKI

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total ASM (in-service/ordered) -> 1,454 ****

Note: Quantities from SIPRI.
* Second order in 2009 for Griffin-3 LGB kits worth tens of millions dollars.
** Quantities not known. Estimates provided in the low side because IAF did not use it in Kargil because of it being expensive (and probably small quantity in service).
*** Although 160 Sea Eagles were ordered, IAF share is probably around 24 missiles as the new order of Harpoon indicates and also as the IAF only has 6 Jaguar IM that are capable of using these missiles.
**** Does not account for numbers used in exercises and combat.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Dec 2010 08:33

good job tallying all those munitions, Srai. Can the Harpy UAV be added to the list?

srai · Post by **srai** » 10 Dec 2010 08:43

Kartik wrote:good job tallying all those munitions, Srai. Can the Harpy UAV be added to the list?

Thanks Kartik!

Hmm. When doing the list, it was primarily for air-launched PGMs. But I suppose we could expand the list to include other PGM assets of the IAF

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2010 10:01

I am getting a strong feeling this missile will be cansister launched in future.

compare to the bigger DF31 TELAR , it is quite similar barring the tube.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3143/260 ... dff4_o.jpg

Agni2.5 would be a better name than 2AT. the direction we are heading with A3SL(K1?) is quite clear...

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 10 Dec 2010 10:04

I did a very very rough analysis based on the height of the pot bellied guy below the missile. The missile is roughly 7.5 times his height and assuming he is 1.7-1.8m tall the height of the missile is 12.75-13.5 m. No way is that missile 20 m long like A-2.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2010 10:07

Sid wrote:ah ha.... ultra cool

second stage looks like made out of composites. Also the RV design is now in sync with A3.

Some people are commenting, composite motor is the 3rd stage and this beast Agni-2P is a 3 stage vehicle.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2010 10:07

my wild calculations put it at 13.6 m - no way are most short, dark, rice eaters more than 1.7m

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2010 10:09

Kanson are you referring to the "ring" between the I and N in india as the end of 1st stage ? credible theory imo even it may be FUD

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2010 10:18

Singha, it was reported that way though in an ambiguous manner.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2010 10:20

I understood both Agni-V and Agni-II Prime will have 3rd stage as composite motor.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2010 10:24

srai, can you identify the miniaturized munition?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5sP7XwykNSM/T ... 4%2529.jpg

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 10 Dec 2010 10:33

Are you referring to CL-20 for miniaturised munition - this was on Shiv Aroor's blog
Is it related to A2P?

Also, does anyone have an idea of the time the test will be conducted?

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 10 Dec 2010 10:33

Agni IIP successfully tested

http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2010/ ... pdates.htm

India successfully test fires Agni II: Just in: India test-fires modified version of Agni-II nuclear-capable intermediate range ballistic missile from Integrated Test Range off the Orissa coast despite inclement weather.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Dec 2010 10:34

Great News , Kudos to Tesse and her team !

A-2 plus looks like a 2 stage vehical with a Agni-3 RV , Probably they are standardizing the A-3 type RV for its higher beta and standard warhead.

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 10 Dec 2010 10:35

csharma wrote:Agni IIP successfully tested

http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2010/ ... pdates.htm

India successfully test fires Agni II: Just in: India test-fires modified version of Agni-II nuclear-capable intermediate range ballistic missile from Integrated Test Range off the Orissa coast despite inclement weather.

Thank you for the good news sir! I was keeping awake only for this.
Have some burfee

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2010 10:44

DRDO tech focus

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2010 10:49

Singha wrote:Kanson are you referring to the "ring" between the I and N in india as the end of 1st stage ? credible theory imo even it may be FUD

Ah! yeah probably...anyway let me check once again with my sources on this.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 10 Dec 2010 10:57

Upgraded Agni II test fails

The maiden test launch of Agni-II Plus, a nuclear-capable surface-to-surface missile with a strike range of 2,500 km to 3,000 km, ended in a massive failure after the missile dropped off ito the sea a few seconds after it was launched from Wheeler Island off coastal waters of Orissa on Bay of Bengal at 10 am.

The Agni-II Plus, a modified version of Agni-II, is an intermediary between Agni-II and Agni-III. It has two stages and both are powered by solid propellants.

DRDO sources said soon after the missile took off, it dropped into the sea. "We are still investigating how it happened," said a source. Today's failure comes in the wake of a similar failure of Prithvi-II missile on September 24 that dropped off just a few seconds after the launch. The failure comes 10 days after the successful flight of surface-to-surface missile Agni-1 on Nov 25.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2010 10:59

>>I would like to know the total thow weight if its different than the AIII which was 1.5 tonne.

It was reported in the media earlier to have the payload of 1.5 ton. I'm not sure whether throw weight and payload can always be the same.

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 10 Dec 2010 11:03

Seriously?!

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 10 Dec 2010 11:03

self deleted

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 10 Dec 2010 11:05

I guess it's too early to comment.

[http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article943501.ece

“Outcome of the trial will be known after data relating to various parameters of mission’s objectives are retrieved and analysed from different telemetry and tracking stations as well as naval ships positioned near the terminal point,” they said.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Dec 2010 11:05

a_bharat wrote:Upgraded Agni II test fails
Snip.........

No issues this happens with new designes. But still it is a bad news

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 10 Dec 2010 11:07

a_bharat wrote:Upgraded Agni II test fails
The maiden test launch of Agni-II Plus, a nuclear-capable surface-to-surface missile with a strike range of 2,500 km to 3,000 km, ended in a massive failure after the missile dropped off ito the sea a few seconds after it was launched from Wheeler Island off coastal waters of Orissa on Bay of Bengal at 10 am.
---

After having a look at the missile, it's unfair to call it an "upgraded Agni-II". For all intents and purposes, this is a new missile with a very new stage separation mechanism and the first test failed. All of this has happened before. Some more long days for Ms. Thomas and her team.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2010 11:33

being a new missile lets not worry about failures. no harm done, nobody got killed on the launch pad. they will be back in a few months for sure.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 10 Dec 2010 11:36

Is it just me or does anybody else think that the Prime looks has mucho more XXX appeal than the old Agni?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Dec 2010 11:40

Isnt that why they call it the prime..........

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 10 Dec 2010 12:05

No fear. enough agni-II's are present in inventory. But the prime team needs to fix this china centric missile quickly.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2010 12:13

even if the test today was flawless, it would still need 5 more such tests imo to consider it sound enough to be seen as a replacement to the basic A2. so IOC from serial production is some way off - likely 5 yrs.

but the A3SL is proceeding in parallel and so is the A3 (rail based).

srai · Post by **srai** » 10 Dec 2010 12:58

Kanson wrote:srai, can you identify the miniaturized munition?

Given the size differences between the two and "familiar" look, my guess would be the following:

Front -> 2,000lb GBU-31 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM)

Rear -> 285lb GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb (SDB)

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 10 Dec 2010 13:23

Upgraded version of Agni-II test-fired http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 075305.cms

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 10 Dec 2010 13:25

it is a failure

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Dec 2010 13:41

Agni 2 – Plus launch a failure : DRDO

Experimental Launch of Agni-II plus or premier experienced a trajectory deviation immediately after the lift-off having failure of the Mission. Detailed analysis is in progress. Many new technologies like Composite Rocket Motor, indigenous Ring Laser Gyro based Navigation System, Road Mobile Launch were being tested in this Mission. Many of these new technologies have been proved.

DRDO statement

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 10 Dec 2010 14:24

First two ASLV's didnt had the control vanes and both failed after few seconds. Is it the same issue again repeating?

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 10 Dec 2010 14:31

My calculation puts the Length total 14.5m-15m, 1st stage=9m, 2nd stage(red part)=4m, RV<=2m ; Diameter 1st stage=1.1m, 2nd stage=0.9m;

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 10 Dec 2010 15:45

Kanson wrote:>> I'm not sure whether throw weight and payload can always be the same.

Throw-weight was defined in the 1979 SALT II agreements as being the sum of the weight of a missile’s reentry vehicles (RVs), self-contained dispensing mechanisms, and penetration aids. Although the bulk of throw-weight comes from the payload, or the warhead, the term is not interchangeable. Throw-weight is more than just the payload.

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airc ... itten.html

Throw-weight equals the total weight of a missile's warheads, reentry vehicles, self-contained dispensing mechanisms, penetration aids, and guidance systems — generally all components except for the launch rocket booster and launch fuel.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 10 Dec 2010 19:59

Image analysis for Dimension Estimation of Agni-II prime
Taking the Dia of first stage as 1.3 mts as reported in Hindu

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2010 21:17

Thanks dinesha. The SLV based F/S was usually reported to be 10m. So most likely the section with fasteners aft of the red/maroon adapter could be the pyro bolt separation segment that Kanson referred to.

Most likely F/S control issue if the flight was short ~30secs. Wonder if its similar to the AIII issue of re-entrant heat from nozzle.

What was time of failure of AIII first flight?

Kanson, I wanted to know the released/deployed weight of the payload if its given anywhere. AIII was stated to be 1.5 tonnes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2010 21:54

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/

Agni-II Prime mission fails
The maiden mission of Agni-II Prime failed, just moments after the missile lifted-off from its launchpad at Launch Complex-4 in Wheeler Island on December 10. The missile which got on to the autolaunch mode at 9:57 am (T -3) had a structural oscillation immediately after the lift-off, sources said.

This was an experimental launch of the advanced version of Agni-II missile and DRDO says that . Many new technologies like rocket motor, RLG-the platform experienced a trajectory deviation immediately after the lift-offbased navigation system, road mobile launcher were being tested during this mission. "The propulsion system worked perfectly, but we observed some stability issues to the missile," an official said.

Notwithstanding this setback, the DRDO scientists are determined to go ahead with other launches scheduled for this month.

lets see.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 10 Dec 2010 22:02

we can expect A-V to get delayed.. I dont think they will test A-V until AII-Prime, AIII etc validates the new stuff they are planning ( CT Could AII Prime be a trial version of A-V /CT )