Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

akshay · Post by **akshay** » 20 Oct 2009 00:40

hey sweety

,
Let members answer allright..if ur tired do not..let the message be unanswered.

I agree that Personnel/Mounted weapons differences exist.

But what is the status of Vehicle mounted NAG..do we have full induction or just like MBT Arjun tank low rate production.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 20 Oct 2009 02:46

India surprised by Chinese fuss over Agni-V

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 20 Oct 2009 02:52

akshay wrote:hey sweety ,
Let members answer allright..if ur tired do not..let the message be unanswered.

I agree that Personnel/Mounted weapons differences exist.

But what is the status of Vehicle mounted NAG..do we have full induction or just like MBT Arjun tank low rate production.

Maybe it's just me (I somehow doubt that) but do you mind explaining:
1. Who is this sweety you are refering to and what is this entity tired of? How does this relate to this forum?
2.Who are you agreeing with on those differences?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Oct 2009 03:03

^^
Akshay is reffering to the following reply by RahulM.

akshay wrote:Anybody has inside info on NAG Atgm ??

I knw the GOI has bought a ton of Milan/Konkur and is eval Javelin system and Spike.
Just want to know why?

Rahul M wrote:akshay, could you PLEASE read the last half a dozen pages of this thread ?
or at least google ? your question has been answered more than once. it's a bit tiring for people to answer the same things to people who don't even even make an attempt to get some background info on their own.

just a hint to start you off, milan/javelin and nag are DIFFERENT classes of anti-tank missiles.

P.S. I replied to your other post last page.

BUT...

akshay wrote:hey sweety ,
Let members answer allright..if ur tired do not..let the message be unanswered.

I agree that Personnel/Mounted weapons differences exist.

But what is the status of Vehicle mounted NAG..do we have full induction or just like MBT Arjun tank low rate production.

Really? hey sweety?

Well Gulabo, you come here and ask a question that has just been discussed to death. You do not even bother to read the last few pages and wonder why a moderator is tired?

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 20 Oct 2009 08:08

Rahul M wrote:source for the PAD/AAD claim ??

shukla doesn't mention agat once in the latest article btw. so, kindly give a source for that too.

http://static.expressindia.com/expressi ... ssiles.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PAD_integration.JPG

when looking at the second image of PAD its clear that first stage is coloured and second stage isn't coloured
PAD has black tip and behind this black tip is active radar seeker and diameter of this tip is around 450mm to 500mm which is half the diameter of missile which is 1000 mm, this means PAD shares the same active seeker used on AAD

no european SAM go above 20km, aster missile has 180mm diameter,

ARROW missile goes higher but its many systems are built by US not by israel so having this seeker in AAD or PAD is hard to believe and not to forget this is the same missile which was refused for sale to india in 2001 due to reason mentioned .

and india doesn't produce active seeker for missiles so last option is russian seeker used on various S300/400 variants

only agat produces active radar seekers for air to air missiles and when Mr Shukla says astra has russian seeker it means seeker is from agat.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Oct 2009 08:17

Mr Shukla says astra has russian seeker it means seeker is from agat.

asking for the second time. where ?

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 20 Oct 2009 08:22

Rahul M wrote:
Mr Shukla says astra has russian seeker it means seeker is from agat.
asking for the second time. where ?

his article says The Astra’s seeker is still imported from Russia, but the DRDO hopes to develop one.

sarang · Post by **sarang** » 20 Oct 2009 14:29

AmitR wrote:
sarang wrote:Dear Mr. Arun_S.

why the Agni (and other) missile pages are degraded instead of upgrade.

Are admins are in some kind of problem with MoD or what?

Kindly Reply.

Sarang.
Dear Mr. Sarang,

Arun_S has left BR and along with him his missile pages.
Kindly refer to the Google cached pages if interested.

Yours Truly,
AmitR

WHOA!

What Happened.

Can anybody shed some light.

What will happen to parasites like me who only feed on BRF.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 20 Oct 2009 14:50

sarang wrote: WHOA!

What Happened.

Can anybody shed some light.

What will happen to parasites like me who only feed on BRF.

You will slowly die away, like all parasites do when the host is dead.

sarang · Post by **sarang** » 20 Oct 2009 14:52

Alas I think that's how things work.
Any ways Its really bad to lose guys like Arun_S.

negi · Post by **negi** » 20 Oct 2009 19:16

Paging Igorr,Austin et al. Guys any idea about the frequency band in which Agat's "9B-1348" operates ?
I remember the talk about work on the Astra seeker with pointers to MBDA's 'Ku' band seeker (Iirc the jirga at that time speculated about Meteor's seeker as being the one).

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 20 Oct 2009 20:49

“Agni IV with 6000KM range” becomes “Agni V with 5000 KM range” in 2 years..
Back in 2007 ,Agni IV was suppose to be “containerised” and now Agni V is being “canister-ised”

Lot of technological milestones in 2 years.. so much obfuscation..

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Oct 2009 20:53

sarang et al, consider it as too much information that needs obfuscation, rather an intended anything on an individual. (me thinking that way).

the truth.. on strategic aspects sometimes needs to be preserved. for example, take a look at chinese brouhaha (Gerard's link).

but, on reality perspective, anyway none needs to know.. it remains as concept vehicles prepared by various automobile mftrs, and only some make it to auto shows, and some to market. some remain as tech demos.

lets take it in the best spirits. (also, its correct not to project to cause same fuss by other P5s).

Igorr · Post by **Igorr** » 20 Oct 2009 22:22

negi wrote:Paging Igorr,Austin et al. Guys any idea about the frequency band in which Agat's "9B-1348" operates ?
I remember the talk about work on the Astra seeker with pointers to MBDA's 'Ku' band seeker (Iirc the jirga at that time speculated about Meteor's seeker as being the one).

You mean this article?

Just days from now, a Sukhoi-30MKI fighter will take off from an Indian Air Force (IAF) base, an Astra missile fitted on its wing. This will be the first-ever flight of this indigenously developed BVR missile, which the IAF hopes will add punch to its fleet of Sukhoi-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) fighters.

THe MNII Agat chief mr I.G.Akopyan says in his article in 'Airspace Review' 04.2009, that the can vary the wavelength for 9B-1103M seekers according to client demands. I think the designation 9B-1348 - is wrong. The only serial they offer now is 9B-1103M in 150, 200 and 350 mm caliber for AAMs and SAMs together. At least it's what he says in the article. It has a laser or a high effective mechanical gyro, 160-180 GFLOPS DSP, silent radio-correction, passive regime too.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Oct 2009 22:39

but.. but.. how do we test the terminal engagement homing part, especially to mimic a fighter speeding at assumingly mach 2, and evading with all possible moves.. example:- like in the movie top gun, diving down an alley, and finally making the missile hit a hill or terrain!?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 20 Oct 2009 23:08

SaiK wrote:but.. but.. how do we test the terminal engagement homing part, especially to mimic a fighter speeding at assumingly mach 2, and evading with all possible moves.. example:- like in the movie top gun, diving down an alley, and finally making the missile hit a hill or terrain!?

you been watching way too many movies

that was way back when the missiles were dubbed "dumb" as they didn't have the amount of sophiscated technologies they have today. Try and pull a stunt like that today with an AMRAAM AIM120 on your ass, and it is guaranteed to hit your tail even when nose diving. But then again you'd probably consider this wineing too. So i'll get back to the thread.
As far as testing them to mimic a fighter speeding at Mach 2 and over, it is done via simulation. Different scenarios are created where aircraft flight path and evasie manuvers are dowladed on to the missiles onbard computers, seeker and inertial navigation system along with active homing which calculate all these algorithms based on the flight path that have been fed into it for possible outcomes. In the States we used a sytem call EYE SAFE, which is a laser terminal homing engagement system, use to validate many of our missile, where aircraft flight trajectories are created for all kind of aircrafts. Initially they start with F-15/16/18 and then move on to Migs/Su's/Gripen/Eurofighters and so on and so forth. Another way to test is captive carry tests (CCT), which consists of a prototype seeker suspended from a test aircraft(ground hardware in a loop software simulation), with a real-time, high fidelity virtual engagement interceptor simulation called the Virtual Engagement Simulation Tool or "VEST". By combining the high fidelity attributes of both test tools, it is possible to perform a real-time, high fidelity, end-to-end demonstration without requiring a "Live-Fire" test. Hope this helps.

negi · Post by **negi** » 21 Oct 2009 00:08

Igorr I asked because I remember Rakall had posted an image on other fora (keypublishing) regarding Astra's seeker.

Here image

It clearly reads 'Ku' band and with a slotted planar array antenna for T/X and FOG(Fibre Optic based GYRO) for INS. I realize that R-77 and even R-27 family employs RF seekers which use a slotted planar antenna and FOG for INS.But I was not sure about the operating frequency for Agat seekers.

Infact it is said that 9B-1103M family is evolved from 9B-1348 family (which includes new DSP module built around TI TMS320C44 32-bit core ).

Igorr · Post by **Igorr** » 21 Oct 2009 01:22

negi wrote: Infact it is said that 9B-1103M family is evolved from 9B-1348 family (which includes new DSP module built around TI TMS320C44 32-bit core ).

This info is from K.Kopp blog:

"Agat recently developed the 9B1103K-150 which is a repackaged "small bore' variant of the R-77 AMRAAMski's 9B1348 series active radar seeker, sized for the Archer airframe. The seeker includes Fibre Optic Gyro (FOG) inertial unit, a digital processor (using the US TMS320 chip in later variants), and a planar array monopulse antenna."

But I say again: the Agat's chief have written something different:
1) the gyro can be of two variants, laser (FOG) and improved mechanic
2) the current 9B1103M serial is the development of R-77's 9B1103 seeker. 9B1348 - did never exist.
3) the band can be different, but if a reliable source claim for Astra it's Ku, can I object?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Oct 2009 01:27

dinesha wrote:“Agni IV with 6000KM range” becomes “Agni V with 5000 KM range” in 2 years..
Back in 2007 ,Agni IV was suppose to be “containerised” and now Agni V is being “canister-ised”
Lot of technological milestones in 2 years.. so much obfuscation..

What is still not clear is that if the Agni - IV became the V, what is the IV then? The sub launched 2 staged version - A3SL?
Then the nomenclature makes sense, as V onwards will be 3 staged.

negi · Post by **negi** » 21 Oct 2009 01:47

Igorr I am aware of Dr Kopp's blog ; however as per "MILPARADE" too the a RF seeker with designation '9B-1348E' exists (infact the last IMAGE on the RIGHT of the page reads "9B-1348E")

AGAT RESEARCH INSTITUTE RADAR SEEKERS DEVELOPER- Iosif Akopyan

The dimensions and weight too match up as far as '9B-1348E' and '9B-1103M' are concerned; anyways I am least bothered about the whole evolution debate for it is of no interest to me.

But I pointed out that FOG based INS for it has been clearly mentioned again by milparade

AGAT PRESENTS RADAR SEEKERS OF THE 21st CENTURY

This page again clearly lists the "9B-1348E" as another RF seeker.

The development of the updated 9B-1103M RS has resolved complicated technological problems that cause difficulties for world-renowned companies. As a result, the Agat Institute has developed new miniature units and devices that serve as the basis for this and other advanced RSs. These include:

- a miniature SHF transmitter and an SHF receiver with an accelerated mode of klystron and TWT heating;

- an RS antenna seeker based on two fiber-optic gyros (instead of mechanical ones);

- a digital signal processor and a high-speed computer (over 50 mln operations per second) with a large memory volume, which allows signal processing in several parallel channels. -- fwiw TI TMS320C44 is capable of 60 MFLOPS.

The use of these devices significantly improves the RS performance, especially:

- decreases the time of missile launch readiness (to 7 - 8 s from the cold state or to 1 s when the cathode is partially warmed up in the standby mode);

- increases RS smartness, thereby significantly improving missile jamming immunity and accuracy of guidance.

From the looks of it Astra's seeker might indeed be sourced from AGAT in fact a customized "9B-1103M" mos probably.Also as you mentioned about the 'variable' operating frequency comment from AGAT's chief Col. Ajay Shukla's story about RU seeker sounds credible.

Most probably a derivative of Advanced active radar seeker 9B-1103M (diameter 150 mm) (MNII AGAT)

I assume Astra's diameter is indeed ~ 178mm.

Provides:
- search, lock-on and tracking of moving targets upon target designation from airborne and air defense radars:
- measuring of target angular coordinates, angular rates and missile-to-target closing speed;
- generation and transfer of signals measured to missile control system;
- reception and decoding of update link signals.
Operating modes:
- active (“fire-and-forget”) completely autonomous mode using only preliminary target designation data, without any external radar support during flight;
- inertial guidance with updating.

Specifications:
1. Composition:
- controlled coordinator with antenna;
- transmitting channel hardware;
- receiving channel hardware;
- reprogrammed on-board digital computing system in composition of control computer and signal processor.
2. Lock-on range of targets with RCS = 5m2 : 13 km, no less;
3. Speed of on-board digital computing system : 50х106 op/s, no less;
4. Memory capacity (PROM) of on-board
computing system : 64K, no less;
5. Time ready after transmitter preliminary heating : 1.0 sec;
6. Mass (less radome) : 8.0 kg, no more;
7. Diameter : 150 mm;
8. Length (less radome) : 400 mm.

Specifications may be changed upon Customer’s will.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Oct 2009 04:08

Craig all those tech and algos are good to have, but how do we test them live!, we need some real UAVs that is fast enough! or the best I can think of is a trailing object on an MKI (risky though).. but, I am not sure the drag could cross any Mach figure.

Just asking about the testing strategies.. no whine or wine. I would also add, a cruise missle dedicated, that can do the evade logic, is fine too. But, I don't think we have such a test setup.

Unless, India has done it!

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 21 Oct 2009 04:37

SaiK wrote:Craig all those tech and algos are good to have, but how do we test them live!, we need some real UAVs that is fast enough! or the best I can think of is a trailing object on an MKI (risky though).. but, I am not sure the drag could cross any Mach figure.

Just asking about the testing strategies.. no whine or wine. I would also add, a cruise missle dedicated, that can do the evade logic, is fine too. But, I don't think we have such a test setup.

Unless, India has done it!

UAV's travelling Mach 2+?? not in this age, need to wait till a 6th gen UAV is built to achieve speed at that levels. But what you call a "trailing object" we refer to as a Pod. A pod (or a dummy decoy) are usually attached to an aircraft, or hang from one however they are used for limited verification, as they can't maneuver (pull a fast G like a MKI can for ex). A pod attach is a great way to test, however a decoy hanging from an aircraft is not used too often due to the problem mentioned above. I believe the ITR missile range at Chandipur has achieved an Air Borne Range (ABR), which basically allows it to hold an instrumented station in space, which floats and tracks missiles and can simulate scenarios to missiles radars. The Chandipur test range is spread over 17 km along the sea coast where a number of tracking instruments have been deployed to cover the total flight path of the test vehicles. Some of the significant test facilities at ITR are:

* Electro-Optical Tracking System (Mobile and Fixed)
* S-Band Tracking Radar (KAMA-N) (Mobile)
* C-Band Tracking Radar (PCMC) (Fixed)
* Telemetry System (Fixed and Mobile)
* Range Computer
* CCTV System
* Photo Processing System
* Meteorological System
* Range Safety System
Not sure if they have an advanced facility like the US does for their THAAD missile testing, but I'm sure that when it comes to deploying "indegenious" products the arm forces test them with every possible trick they can think of and only accept it when it passes all their satisfaction especially when it is not IMPORTED from other countries.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Oct 2009 07:01

Baldev wrote:.......
Mr Shukla says astra has russian seeker it means seeker is from agat.
his article says The Astra’s seeker is still imported from Russia, but the DRDO hopes to develop one.

reason I asked was he hasn't mentioned agat specifically. I believe there are a couple other seeker head makers in russia than agat ?

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 21 Oct 2009 07:26

Rahul M wrote: reason I asked was he hasn't mentioned agat specifically. I believe there are a couple other seeker head makers in russia than agat ?

yes there are other seeker head makers in russia but only agat produces active and semi active radar seekers for air to air missiles but if there is another company please let me know i will be happy to know

and IR seekers for air to air missiles are produced by different company not by agat

negi · Post by **negi** » 21 Oct 2009 08:11

The Mayank-80 IR seeker for R-73 and R-73K are from Arsenal Central Design Bureau State Enterprise-Kiev in Ukraine.

A bit of history from Janes

R-73 archer

Work on the R-73 began during the 1970s when the Ukrainian-based Molniya design bureau (developers of the R-60/AA-8 and R-77/AA-12 missiles also) was in competition with the Moscow-based Vympel bureau to develop a new class of advanced agile AAMs to arm the next generation of Soviet Fighters - the MiG-29 and Su-27. The R-73 was born around 1976 and would be the last missile programme to be completed by Molniya. The bureau was redirected to concentrate on the Buran space shuttle and, as a result, Molniya projects and personnel were transferred to Vympel. This process was completed around 1981. Vympel finished its development work around 1985. Actual missile production was undertaken at the Moscow Kommunar Machine Building Production Enterprise plant. The RDTT-295 rocket motor was built by the Iskra Design Bureau. in Moscow, and the missile autopilot was supplied by Avionika. The R-73's seeker was provided by the Arsenal Central Design Bureau, in Kiev, Ukraine.

As per latest reports the new WVR AAM for PAK-FA i.e. R-74 will be using an improved IR seeker from the same manufacturer in Kiev Ukraine.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Oct 2009 08:44

Gagan wrote: What is still not clear is that if the Agni - IV became the V, what is the IV then?

I recall reading a news item recently that there is no Agni IV. It might be on this thread.

I tried to locate that but found only this blog entry of questionable veracity

http://missilemonitor.blogspot.com/2008 ... -test.html

Once again the nomenclature: it seems India will leapfrog from the Agni-III to the Agni-V, which will be the 5,000+ km version. That means that Agni-III+ and Agni-IV were rather “working titles”. Unless I find any convincing sources that will indicate otherwise, I will from now on use this terminology and change the names accordingly to Agni-V.

Agni-I (SRBM)
700-800km
single stage
Agni-II (MRBM)
2,500km
two stages
Agni-III (IRBM)
3,500km
two stages
Agni-III SL (SLBM)
5,200-11,600km
three stages
Agni-V (IRBM/ICBM)
beyond 5,000km
three stages

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Oct 2009 08:51

issue with ukraine is they are buddies with the PRC, having sold them everything from cruise missile techs to AN70 design plus letting scientists work on contract for PRC projects since early 90s.

I hope Rus keeps a tight leash on ukraine sourced tech and prohibits leakage to prc.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Oct 2009 08:51

Here are more news items that suggest that there will not be a formal "Agni IV"

http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2009/07/02/drdo ... v-project/

What is Agni-V (missile)?
An upgraded version of the Agni III known as the Agni-V (Earlier known as Agni-III* (Agni-III star) and Agni-IV).

http://www.sakaaltimes.com/2008/10/2223 ... -2010.html

The Defence Research and Development Organisation has developed Agni-I (700 km), Agni-II (2,000 km) and Agni-III (beyond 3,000 km), which can carry conventional and nuclear warheads. Agni-V is its latest project, which could be the final one in the series.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 21 Oct 2009 09:27

"We will be ready to test Agni-V by 2010," he added. There will not be an Agni-IV missile, with DRDO leapfrogging from intermediate range Agni-III to the almost ICBM-like Agni-V. "We have the capability to go for even longer ranges but it's for the political leadership to take a decision on such matters," said Chander.

Going ballistic: India looks to join elite missile club
Rajat Pandit, TNN 13 May 2008, 12:01am IST

In 2008 design work was under way for a three-stage Agni V IRBM that will have a range of 5000 km. The new missile was previously referred to as the Agni IV (or as the Agni III* in earlier reports) but the DRDO has decided to skip over this designation.

Indian Nuclear and Missile Force Structure: SIPRI –January 2009

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 21 Oct 2009 19:47

negi wrote:The Mayank-80 IR seeker for R-73 and R-73K are from Arsenal Central Design Bureau State Enterprise-Kiev in Ukraine.

A bit of history from Janes

R-73 archer

Work on the R-73 began during the 1970s when the Ukrainian-based Molniya design bureau (developers of the R-60/AA-8 and R-77/AA-12 missiles also) was in competition with the Moscow-based Vympel bureau to develop a new class of advanced agile AAMs to arm the next generation of Soviet Fighters - the MiG-29 and Su-27. The R-73 was born around 1976 and would be the last missile programme to be completed by Molniya. The bureau was redirected to concentrate on the Buran space shuttle and, as a result, Molniya projects and personnel were transferred to Vympel. This process was completed around 1981. Vympel finished its development work around 1985. Actual missile production was undertaken at the Moscow Kommunar Machine Building Production Enterprise plant. The RDTT-295 rocket motor was built by the Iskra Design Bureau. in Moscow, and the missile autopilot was supplied by Avionika. The R-73's seeker was provided by the Arsenal Central Design Bureau, in Kiev, Ukraine.
As per latest reports the new WVR AAM for PAK-FA i.e. R-74 will be using an improved IR seeker from the same manufacturer in Kiev Ukraine.

that missile is here
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/614/aam610.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5523/pr611.jpg

The height of the carrier / purpose, m - 20 ... 20000
Vehicle speed, km / h - 650 ... 2500
Rate target (no more), km / h - 2700
Overloading goal, g - 0 ... 12
Excess (downplaying) the objectives of (sub) carrier, m - 0 ... 5000
Angles targeting coordinator, grad. - */-60

Launch range (max. / min.):
In the LPP, km - 20 / 0,3
In PPPs miles - up to 40 / 0,65
in the lateral angles, km - 15 / 0,6
Time controlled flight, with - up to 25
Length (approx.), mm - 2500
Body diameter, mm - 170

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 21 Oct 2009 20:51

KH 38 missile
The missile with the warhead of about 250 kg weighs up to 520 kg at launch.
Its launch range is up to 40 km.
Overall dimensions are as follows:
- length – 4.2 m
- body diameter – 0.31 m.

Guidance systems of the missiles are the following:
Kh-38МLE - inertial + semi-active laser;
Kh-38МАE – inertial + active radar;
Kh-38МТE - inertial + imaging IR;
Kh-38МKE - inertial + satellite navigation.

KH-25 missile varients

kh-25 ML fitted with semiactive laser seeker 24N1 with missile range 10km
kh-25 MAE fitted with active radar seeker developed by Phazatron missile range upto 40km
kh-25 MP airborne anti-radiation missile equipped with a passive radar homing head which is in service with IAF with missile range upto 40km (http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/images/mig27ml2_c1.jpg)

since this missile is replacement of KH 25 ,it will share the same seekers used on KH25

24N1 semiactive laser homing head is also used on KH 29L and KH 25ML and both these missiles fitted with this seeker have range of 10km and its is most probable same seeker will also be used on KH-38MLE
http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/Azov/24N1.jpg

now active radar seeker for KH-58MAE will be the same developed for KH25 missile
http://missiles.ru/_foto/MAKS-2005_16-08/PSM-E_1.jpg
specifications
Wavelengths Ka

Target detection range, km:
Tank - 4
Industrial building - 5 ... 8

Field of view, deg.:
Azimuth - ± 30
On the corner of the place ± 20

Accuracy:
Range, m 8 ... 10

Weight, kg - not more than 16
The time to prepare, with 60

both imaging IR and satellite navigation guidance will be different

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Oct 2009 22:42

where are the links ? please add them.
copy pasting without links amounts to copyright violation.

about the seeker issue, I'm aware that only agat ARH seekers are in use on russian AAMs(only one, the R-77) at the moment but doesn't tikho and almaz both have the capability to make RF seekers ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Oct 2009 22:57

dinesha wrote:
[b"We have the capability to go for even longer ranges but it's for the political leadership to take a decision on such matters," said Chander. [/b]
[/b]

aum surya namah

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 21 Oct 2009 23:38

Rahul M wrote:about the seeker issue, I'm aware that only agat ARH seekers are in use on russian AAMs(only one, the R-77) at the moment but doesn't tikho and almaz both have the capability to make RF seekers ?

if other companies produce RF seekers for air to air missiles we would know that

but anyway here is link
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... dFbjG_BEBA

this company is involved in making IR seekers along with other companies(azov,geofizika)
so you can see the detection ranges of various TV or IR cameras and their resolution can be matched with TV,IR seekers of missiles saying this because TV/IR seekers are nothing but specialized cameras

also when most advanced russian FLIR on mig35 has 15-18km detection range for fighter in front hemisphere so the little IR seeker will have much short range for same purpose

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Oct 2009 06:45

if other companies produce RF seekers for air to air missiles we would know that

you don't get it do you ?

companies like tikho and almaz do have the capability (they anyway make ARH seekers for SAMs)
it won't be that much more difficult for them to design a missile ARH seeker.

but anyway here is link
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... dFbjG_BEBA

this company is involved in making IR seekers along with other companies(azov,geofizika)
.................

what exactly is the point of giving a reply on IR to a question on ARH ?

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 22 Oct 2009 09:16

Rahul M wrote: you don't get it do you ?
companies like tikho and almaz do have the capability (they anyway make ARH seekers for SAMs)
it won't be that much more difficult for them to design a missile ARH seeker.

what exactly is the point of giving a reply on IR to a question on ARH ?

i don't doubt the capability of NIIP or almaz that they are able to build ARH seekers for air to air missiles,

but as of there is no ARH from these companies for air to air missiles, if in future these companies build ARH for air to air missile we would know that along with specification because russians display their products for public whenever they have something to show

and about IR seeker is just additional info nothing more or less

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 23 Oct 2009 09:54

X-post
Scientists readying to test fire Agni-II
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... %20and%20N
Hemant Kumar Rout First Published : 23 Oct 2009 05:39:00 AM IST Last Updated : 23 Oct 2009 08:22:08 AM IST

BALASORE: Amidst China’s concern over yet-to-be-tested longest range Agni-V missile, India is poised to test fire an Agni variant missile to further strengthen the technological know-how.
Preparations are on a war-footing in the integrated test range (ITR) off Orissa coast for launching of 2000-km plus range Agni-II missile shortly. “The missile is scheduled to be fired from the Wheelers Island based test range facilities any time in-between November 3 and 8,” a source at the ITR told ‘Express’ today. Recently, China expressed concern over the scheduled test of 5000-km range Agni-V missile in late 2010 or early 2011 as the missile has the capability to strike most of the Chinese cities.
“India is building its minimum nuclear deterrence and the missiles are not targeted towards any of its hostile neighbours, including China and Pakistan. The 700-km range Agni-I along with Agni-II and the 3000-km range Agni-III form the triad of the country’s minimum, credible nuclear deterrence,” said a defence scientist.
Defence sources said the Agni-II missile, which was first testfired in 1999, is 21-meter long and 1.3 meter in diameter. It weighs 19 tonne and is designed to carry “special weapons” nuclear payload of over 1,000 kg. It has already been inducted into the Indian army and will be used by 555th missile group of the army.
This missile is part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP). The other missiles include Prithvi, Trishul, Akash and Nag.
Agni-II has appropriate on-board thrusters fitted on the second stage of the missile. Both stages of Agni-II have a solid propulsion system which allows the missile to be mobile and flexible.
“Scientists are working hard as the last test of Agni-II missile was a failure. During the test, the missile instead of traveling on the pre-determined trajectory started wandering mid-way. So this time they don’t want to take any chances. The missiles will be tested by the Indian Army,” informed the source.
Agni-II is a ready-to-fire missile with a launch time of about 15 minutes. Experts said having South China as the main target, the missile is designed to carry a one-tonne weapon based on the “boosted fission device” exploded in Pokhran in 1998. “The hidden tie-up between China and Pakistan has provided enough reason for the defence and security strategists to doubt the intentions of both the countries, potential nuclear powered neighbours. And the tie-up will definitely boost the arms race in South East Asian region further endangering the already fragile security scenario,” said experts.

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 23 Oct 2009 11:41

Why India is not a great nation. Must Read....

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?a=jk ... eat_nation

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 23 Oct 2009 20:27

Rahul M wrote:about the seeker issue, I'm aware that only agat ARH seekers are in use on russian AAMs(only one, the R-77) at the moment but doesn't tikho and almaz both have the capability to make RF seekers ?

can you provide link for NIIP designed seekers

will be happy to know

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Oct 2009 21:05

Afaik the Semi Active seeker for 2K12 "Kub" (SA-6 gainful) was developed by NIIP Tikhomirov .