South India River Water Issues/Disputes

[Javee]

^^Again, this is lahori logic. Why is Mettur relevant in this discussion?? We have 7 districts that is looking up for drinking water and irrigation. The water than KA stores in KRS is not KA's property, it's joint ownership of all the 4 states.

[mnag]

^^Again, this is lahori logic. Why is Mettur relevant in this discussion?? We have 7 districts that is looking up for drinking water and irrigation. The water than KA stores in KRS is not KA's property, it's joint ownership of all the 4 states.

You're only supporting what i said earlier. When TN already has 40 TMC water available in mettur, but oppose Karnataka's intention to use 20 TMC of the available 20-25 TMC for citizens driniking water needs and want it for TN's second/third crop, doesnt it justify my argument that it is TN that is behaving like it has the exclusive access to CAuvery?

[Javee]

You are going in circles, the point of contention is KA's dams hold water for all the 4 states and not just for KA's own drinking water supply. Yet, time again you are bringing in Mettur to your discussion, the water level is 85ft and with effective dead storage starting at 74ft, there is not a lot of water in Mettur. What ever water is there, will need to be rationed out to 7+ districts for the next 3 months. There is a reason why the Supreme court and the tribunal did not accept KA's argument that the water in KRS will be solely used by KA for its purposes, water sharing is the only way out of the mess. And like KA politicians, do not give statistics that TN is raising its second and third crop, which aint true. Do me a favor and google and see the crop patterns in the delta region.

[mnag]

You are going in circles, the point of contention is KA's dams hold water for all the 4 states and not just for KA's own drinking water supply. Yet, time again you are bringing in Mettur to your discussion, the water level is 85ft and with effective dead storage starting at 74ft, there is not a lot of water in Mettur. What ever water is there, will need to be rationed out to 7+ districts for the next 3 months. There is a reason why the Supreme court and the tribunal did not accept KA's argument that the water in KRS will be solely used by KA for its purposes, water sharing is the only way out of the mess. And like KA politicians, do not give statistics that TN is raising its second and third crop, which aint true. Do me a favor and google and see the crop patterns in the delta region.

You're missing the big picture, so i am rephrasing so that you might see wht i am telling. I am looking at drinking water and crops of both Karnataka and TN. Karnataka has 25 TMC left of which drinking needs in Karnataka is 20-25 TMC and it has given up on using water for irrigation. The karnakaka farmers have given up on cauvery water and praying for rains
With 40 TMC in mettur (even with lower levels, Mettur has 40 TMC), the drinking needs of TN is solved - so TN is in relatively better situation. With possibility of NE monsoon, TN crops still have hope. But TN asking Karnataka to give up on drinking needs using a formula which doesnt take current drought situation makes it more look like TN feels it is solely entitled. In good times, Karnataka has been sharing all the waters with TN (which doesnt get mentioned anywhere )- it is in this situation KArnataka is unable to release water. TN having got used to water is got in good times feels entitled to its watershare forgetting this is a distressed time - it more looks like TN is not willing to share the distress

[Javee]

More mis-representation of facts - The argument here is that 25 TMC is not KA's share, it is the property of all the 4 states. KA govt has mismanaged Bengaluru and it's water needs, so you want the other 3 states to suffer for KA govts ineptness?? And the icing is that, Bengaluru wastes millions of liters of water every year and KA has not given up on irrigation up til this point.

After releasing water to Tamil Nadu they (government) are now saying they will give water to locals farmers. Had they said this earlier, more farmers would have cultivated their land this monsoon season.”

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... s-3023210/

As far as water in Mettur is concerned, like I unlike Karnataka, Kavari is the life line for TN and millions of people depend on it.

He said the supply of 3000 cusecs of water for 10 days will be only around 2.60 TMC feet and “it will not suffice even the water needs of farmers for two days.”

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... r-3039547/

Even during better monsoon years, KA does not "share", it has been clearly documented that they first fill in their dams at one go and then let the water flow to TN.

The only way out is for KA to follow SC orders and the CG to set up CAB so distress sharing can be worked out. That way, KA cannot arbitrarily say that they will need all the water and they will not provide a drop of water to the lower riparian states,like they do now.

[GShankar]

An agreement (supreme court ruling or tribunal ruling or otherwise) between states should be followed "to keep the peace". If not, well, we are all seeing what happens, if not.

Instead of bringing in all subjective/arbitrary things into the discussion, one should start with why can't current rules (rulings) be followed until they are changed irrespective of how unfair they are?

States' and People's needs change over time. And any adjustments or modifications to existing rules should be taken up in the legal sphere.

[chetak]

You are going in circles, the point of contention is KA's dams hold water for all the 4 states and not just for KA's own drinking water supply. Yet, time again you are bringing in Mettur to your discussion, the water level is 85ft and with effective dead storage starting at 74ft, there is not a lot of water in Mettur. What ever water is there, will need to be rationed out to 7+ districts for the next 3 months. There is a reason why the Supreme court and the tribunal did not accept KA's argument that the water in KRS will be solely used by KA for its purposes, water sharing is the only way out of the mess. And like KA politicians, do not give statistics that TN is raising its second and third crop, which aint true. Do me a favor and google and see the crop patterns in the delta region.

You're missing the big picture, so i am rephrasing so that you might see wht i am telling. I am looking at drinking water and crops of both Karnataka and TN. Karnataka has 25 TMC left of which drinking needs in Karnataka is 20-25 TMC and it has given up on using water for irrigation. The karnakaka farmers have given up on cauvery water and praying for rains
With 40 TMC in mettur (even with lower levels, Mettur has 40 TMC), the drinking needs of TN is solved - so TN is in relatively better situation. With possibility of NE monsoon, TN crops still have hope. But TN asking Karnataka to give up on drinking needs using a formula which doesnt take current drought situation makes it more look like TN feels it is solely entitled. In good times, Karnataka has been sharing all the waters with TN (which doesnt get mentioned anywhere )- it is in this situation KArnataka is unable to release water. TN having got used to water is got in good times feels entitled to its watershare forgetting this is a distressed time - it more looks like TN is not willing to share the distress

Emotions aside, the TN govt has law, as currently existing, squarely on it's side.

Why did not KAR not get the water sharing formula changed to cover distressed times and who stopped it ?? From the wisdom of the wodeyars to the stupidity of siddu, KAR has only gone from best to worst.

The problem and the solution has been known for decades but no action has been taken by KAR to mitigate the situation.

Not a single politician from KAR is even willing to talk to TN because the intra govt relationship is really bad. If we have macho chest thumping, loud mouthed, chauvinistic mards here, TN also has them and in larger numbers too.

If TN buses and trucks have been burnt in KAR or some KAR hotel has been bombed in chennai, it only gives free reign to anti social jokers on both sides to loot and pillage.

The fault lies squarely with the formula which is in use. Where ever the pain is most, the initiative to take action must come from there.

[Gus]

KA's idea of sharing is - we'll let you have some if we have overflow of our dams. That won't do.

I completely understand that KA does need water for irrigation as its cultivated lands have expanded a lot since the agreement, and needs drinking water for Blr population which has exploded. Nobody is saying that KA wants water to play around and waste.

But that does not come at the expense of lower riparian states.

KA (and all drought states for that matter), need to plan better and look at maximizing rain fall and water recycling and plugging wastes etc - instead of the lazy option of "cauvery starts here, so we get to keep what we want".

[Aditya_V]

The Old agreements did not have an elephant in the room,
1) How much water is required for Bengaluru and other Urban/ Domestic uses in Karnataka?
2)Is this water coming from Akravathy- Machanbele Resovoir?
3) Is this Water tapped from the Cauvery River Itself?, When does Karnataka plan to tap water from Mekadatu for Bengaluru
4) What is the Historical water available in Bengaluru lakes and what is the Present state?

I think these 4 questions will be critical in arriving in any future distress formula. But will Karnataka politicians allow such information to be put int he public domain.

TN will take whatever water Karnataka is able/allowed/ directed/ coerced/ ordered to release. A downstream state seems to have little choice.

[arshyam]

Technically, BLR is not even in the Kaveri basin. So if KA wants to provide water from Kaveri, it has to do so from its own share. Can't have it both ways - supply water outside the river basin to BLR, and then withhold water to other basin districts which have a right to it.

Now, the question I have been asking for a long time, and haven't found reliable answers to is, how much water is really there in KRS and Kabini? If, as KA states, it does not have water, why is the SC judgment asking for water to be released? And what are the state's AG and lawyers doing to present an accurate picture to the SC, so water release can be regulated? But it looks like KA wants to just blame TN and do nothing.

Hopefully, these guys can work something out:
Karnataka, Tamil Nadu farmers to meet to discuss Cauvery issue - The Hindu

...and added that farmers of both the States have realised that most of the political parties and leaders want the issue to last for years to their their advantage, unmindful about the disturbance and differences it has created in both the States.

[arshyam]

And in the middle of all this, here's a gem from Deccan Herald:

100 MLD water lost from new pipeline, BWSSB clueless

Springing shockwaves at a time when the state is in the midst of a legal battle over sharing Cauvery water with Tamil Nadu, it is now revealed that the Bangalore Water Supply and Sewerage Board (BWSSB) has no account of the over 100 million litres per day (MLD) of water that is pumped in from the Cauvery river basin to the city through a single water distribution line.

The water loss of over 100 MLD is not small, especially from a pipeline that was commissioned in 2012 to supply water to Bengaluru.

If the BWSSB sets this anomaly right, it can generate an additional monthly revenue of not less than Rs 8 crore, considering the unit cost of Rs 26 per kilo litre.
However, the BWSSB does not have any clue as to where this whopping 1.3 tmcft of water is going. Is it a case of organised water theft, faulty metres or improper water audit? There is no answer.

Loss in new project

To meet the increasing demand for water, the BWSSB took up the Rs 3,500-crore project to augment about 500 MLD of water under stage IV, phase II of the Cauvery Water Supply Scheme (CWSS). The project, which involved setting up of a 100-km water distribution network, was commissioned in 2012. With this, the board was supplying about 1,400 MLD of water to Bengaluru under its CWSS Stage I, II, III and IV projects. But not all of the 500 MLD of water is accounted for.

A senior BWSSB official said, “There is water loss of more than 100 MLD in the new pipeline. But there is no such problem with the other four pipelines, even though they are very old. It needs immediate attention.” This pipeline supplies water to eastern, southeastern, western and northwestern parts of the city, covering three BWSSB divisions, he added.

BWSSB chairman Tushar Girinath was the first to notice such a huge loss during a water audit meeting. “The issue is being investigated at the macro-level. We have assigned this job to a third party, which will fix water metres at different levels to find out the difference, including the water audit. This will bring down the total water loss from 46% to at least 35% and increase our revenue, he told DH, adding the report is likely to be ready in a month.

Tanker mafia, perhaps?

[rkirankr]

KA's idea of sharing is - we'll let you have some if we have overflow of our dams. That won't do.

I completely understand that KA does need water for irrigation as its cultivated lands have expanded a lot since the agreement, and needs drinking water for Blr population which has exploded. Nobody is saying that KA wants water to play around and waste.

But that does not come at the expense of lower riparian states.

KA (and all drought states for that matter), need to plan better and look at maximizing rain fall and water recycling and plugging wastes etc - instead of the lazy option of "cauvery starts here, so we get to keep what we want".

sorry this argument goes both ways. Not starting a flame war here. TN cannot ask for water in Distress conditions, for its 3rd cropwhen KA does not have for its own first or second crop. The same argument of better water management applies to TN too. Being a lower riparian state does not mean the upper riparian has to be the bakra

[durairaaj]

While many falsehoods have been spread thrown around during the heat of the discussion, I just would like to state some of the myths for the record.
3 crop agriculture in Kaveri basin is long gone. It is only 2 crop and slowly dying. Kaveri water currently covers only 1 ~ 1.5 crop. he other 0.5 comes from ground water which is depleting at a faster rate.
wrt KA even if it has all the water it cannot grow 3 crop and produce good return. The fact is it does not get the sun shine that TN gets almost through out the year and does not have long plains to collect the fertile river sediments. So farmers in KA circumvent this problem and go for water intensive Sugarcane which is an annual crop and does not need minerals.

[chetak]

KA's idea of sharing is - we'll let you have some if we have overflow of our dams. That won't do.

I completely understand that KA does need water for irrigation as its cultivated lands have expanded a lot since the agreement, and needs drinking water for Blr population which has exploded. Nobody is saying that KA wants water to play around and waste.

But that does not come at the expense of lower riparian states.

KA (and all drought states for that matter), need to plan better and look at maximizing rain fall and water recycling and plugging wastes etc - instead of the lazy option of "cauvery starts here, so we get to keep what we want".

sorry this argument goes both ways. Not starting a flame war here. TN cannot ask for water in Distress conditions, for its 3rd cropwhen KA does not have for its own first or second crop. The same argument of better water management applies to TN too. Being a lower riparian state does not mean the upper riparian has to be the bakra

http://indianexpress.com/article/explai ... t-3043193/

In a letter written on July 6, 1915, Sir M Visweswaraya, then Diwan of Mysore and the master engineer who built the Krishna Raja Sagar dam, noted: “The whole area irrigated under the Cauvery System in Mysore at present is about 1,15,000 acres only against a corresponding area of 12,25,500 acres in Madras…”. Over the years, the fact that a larger agricultural area in Tamil Nadu is dependent on the Cauvery, has played a key role in determining how the waters of the river should be split among the two states.

Agriculture in the Cauvery delta region of Thanjavur and Tiruchirappalli began more than 2,000 years ago. “It is said that a Chola king constructed the Grand Anicut… which formed a great irrigation system in Thanjavur district in the first century AD,” said the Cauvery River Water Disputes Tribunal.

At the turn of the present century, irrigation in the Cauvery basin in what is now Karnataka was carried out mainly through diversions of rivers, and tanks. “Since there was no reservoir, the waters of Cauvery and its tributaries like Kabini, Hemavathy, Harangi, Suvarnavathy, used to pass through the State of Mysore but their ultimate destination was the delta area of the then State of Madras,” the Tribunal said.

As a result of this historical skew, TN has always had access to the lion’s share of waters — at the beginning of the 20th century, only around 138 thousand million cubic (TMC) feet out of the river’s total yield, estimated at 740 TMC ft at 50% dependability, was available to Karnataka. In 1924, when TN built the Mettur dam, the states signed an agreement allowing TN to expand irrigation by 11 lakh acres to 27 lakh acres, and Karnataka by 7 lakh acres to 10 lakh acres over the agreement’s 50-year life.

Up to 1974, however, Mysore/Karnataka was able to develop only 6.824 lakh acres — a fallout, it claimed, of the unfavourable terms of the agreement. As the 50-year period ended, it set up more irrigation projects in addition to the Krishna Raja Sagar dam (1928) to use the river’s waters.

The new projects gave rise to the dispute with TN over the sharing of waters, resulting eventually in the setting up of the Cauvery Water Disputes Tribunal in 1990. In its final order on February 5, 2007, the Tribunal awarded 419 TMC ft out of 740 TMC ft to Tamil Nadu, 270 TMC ft to Karnataka, 30 TMC ft to Kerala and 7 TMC ft to Pondicherry. The remaining 14 TMC ft was reserved for environmental protection and outflow to sea.

Nearly 29 lakh acres of paddy crop in TN and an estimated 14 lakh acres of paddy and semi-dry crops in Karnataka are currently dependent on Cauvery water. Karnataka farmers have traditionally resented the fact that their TN counterparts grow 3 paddy crops a year while they have to be satisfied with 1 and, if there is water left in the dams after release to TN, a second, less water-intensive crop.

[mnag]

KA's idea of sharing is - we'll let you have some if we have overflow of our dams. That won't do.

I completely understand that KA does need water for irrigation as its cultivated lands have expanded a lot since the agreement, and needs drinking water for Blr population which has exploded. Nobody is saying that KA wants water to play around and waste.

But that does not come at the expense of lower riparian states.

KA (and all drought states for that matter), need to plan better and look at maximizing rain fall and water recycling and plugging wastes etc - instead of the lazy option of "cauvery starts here, so we get to keep what we want".

Karnataka always shares water when it is available. This year despite drought, it has released 40+tmc and since anything more causes drinking water shortage, it is unable. If mettur dam has 45+ tmc today., lot of it comes from karnataja. But TN only complains about the entitlement based on good year estimate. What I see here is the entitlement mentality of TN which expects Karnataka people to not drink water to feed the second/third crop in TN. If TN really wants share of water during good times, it needs to share the distress as well and letting the neighbours have drinking water is what true spirit of sharing is

Regarding Bangalore water supply, if Karnataka doesn't attend to it who will? Definitely Karnataka cannot count on TN to address it and so Karnataka needs to do what it can. Yes Bangalore has lake encroachment and the state should be told in strict terms to clean up in time bound manner, but punishing in 2016 by denying drinking water is no solution.

Regarding lower riparian rights, Karnataka has respected it 9 out of past 10 years..Go and ask how insisting upon lower riparian rights is working for Mexico wrt Colorado River dispute with USa or for India wrt China. Even India is discussing cancelling iwt with Pak now.

[GShankar]

Regarding lower riparian rights, Karnataka has respected it 9 out of past 10 years..Go and ask how insisting upon lower riparian rights is working for Mexico wrt Colorado River dispute with USa or for India wrt China. Even India is discussing cancelling iwt with Pak now.

I know I am only quoting a portion of your post that is relevant for my argument. But still, I would hate to break it to you that 9 out of 10 or bit more or bit less are not acceptable per the ruling (by one or combination of Courts and Cauvery Tribunal). It needs to be 10 out of 10.

[Lilo]

.....

Regarding lower riparian rights, Karnataka has respected it 9 out of past 10 years..Go and ask how insisting upon lower riparian rights is working for Mexico wrt Colorado River dispute with USa or for India wrt China. Even India is discussing cancelling iwt with Pak now.

Last i checked both KN & TN are just two fungible states within the Indian union.
Then what is this attempt to conflate International water disputes with mere interstate water disputes hain ji ?
It gets further worse when a comparison with Pakis is attempted...

[Javee]

Mnag,
Not sure why you keep mis-representating the facts on 2nd and 3rd crop in TN delta. Do you have any supporting data that the rest of us don't? All the while you are arguing about KA magnanimously releasing water to TN and that they have released 40TMC water for this year. Let's be clear, KA does not own the water, legally and morally KA has to share the water. Again another lie perpetrated by KA govt and you is that TN is not sharing the distress with KA. TN is not asking KA to release 192TMC water, but to equitably share what is there in the dams today. KA politicians rumbling that they will not give a drop of water is just anal and obtuse as it is neither theirs nor they have any control over it.

[putnanja]

TN is in fact asking for everything, asking for KA to make good all the shortage of 60+ TMC which is what it would have got in a good year of monsoons. And all articles talk of at least 2+ crops in TN delta, even the one above referenced by chetak.

As per TN's report itself , there are three crops grown, reference the Thanjavur delta.

http://www.tnau.ac.in/dr/zonepdf/CauveryDeltaZone.pdf
http://www.tn.gov.in/crop/AreaProduction.htm
http://www.tn.gov.in/crop/Part4A1.htm

[mnag]

Mnag,
Not sure why you keep mis-representating the facts on 2nd and 3rd crop in TN delta. Do you have any supporting data that the rest of us don't? All the while you are arguing about KA magnanimously releasing water to TN and that they have released 40TMC water for this year. Let's be clear, KA does not own the water, legally and morally KA has to share the water. Again another lie perpetrated by KA govt and you is that TN is not sharing the distress with KA. TN is not asking KA to release 192TMC water, but to equitably share what is there in the dams today. KA politicians rumbling that they will not give a drop of water is just anal and obtuse as it is neither theirs nor they have any control over it.

Karnataka only has 25 TMC of water while TN's needs is 60+ - even if Karnataka releases all water, it will not suffice for TN irrigation needs. i have been mentionning about Mettur dam having 40 TMC + possibility of NE monsoon for TN which will take care of drinking water needs. TN doesnt have new drinking water issue thanks to Karnataka releasing water all the while plus the probability of NE monsoon. TN is asking for water for irrigation and despite Karnataka telling any new water release comes at cost of drinking water supply if TN still insists, it is very clear TN is not sharing the distress and only wants entitlement of its share during good times. TN doesnt solely own the water to decide that Karnataka people should go without drinking water.
If Mettur had 0 TMC and TN was asking for drinking water and Karnataka didnt release more water (on top of 40+ TMC that was released this year.) you can blame Karnataka. But at this time since TN has secured drinking water and wants additional water for irrigation, it is TN that is exhibiting entitlement mentality and not sharing the distress

[arshyam]

i have been mentionning about Mettur dam having 40 TMC + possibility of NE monsoon for TN which will take care of drinking water needs.

Do you have a source for this?

TN is asking for water for irrigation and despite Karnataka telling any new water release comes at cost of drinking water supply if TN still insists, it is very clear TN is not sharing the distress and only wants entitlement of its share during good times. TN doesnt solely own the water to decide that Karnataka people should go without drinking water.
If Mettur had 0 TMC and TN was asking for drinking water and Karnataka didnt release more water (on top of 40+ TMC that was released this year.) you can blame Karnataka. But at this time since TN has secured drinking water and wants additional water for irrigation, it is TN that is exhibiting entitlement mentality and not sharing the distress

As far as rhetoric goes, this is all fine and dandy. Question is, why is the SC agreeing with TN's asks? Can't KA's lawyers open their mouths and explain the situation in the court?

I posed this question above, re-posting it here:

Now, the question I have been asking for a long time, and haven't found reliable answers to is, how much water is really there in KRS and Kabini? If, as KA states, it does not have water, why is the SC judgment asking for water to be released? And what are the state's AG and lawyers doing to present an accurate picture to the SC, so water release can be regulated? But it looks like KA wants to just blame TN and do nothing.

Can you take a stab at the above and try to answer my question? Else, you are simply going in circles of rhetoric (KA great, TN bad, and bringing in Paki issues in an internal matter).

[Javee]

TN is in fact asking for everything, asking for KA to make good all the shortage of 60+ TMC which is what it would have got in a good year of monsoons. And all articles talk of at least 2+ crops in TN delta, even the one above referenced by chetak.

As per TN's report itself , there are three crops grown, reference the Thanjavur delta.

http://www.tnau.ac.in/dr/zonepdf/CauveryDeltaZone.pdf
http://www.tn.gov.in/crop/AreaProduction.htm
http://www.tn.gov.in/crop/Part4A1.htm

Ha, selective reading and mis-representing the facts again. That report was from 2005 when the rains were copious for 3 straight years. If it is more than one sowing, it typically means they use ground water rather than river water for irrigation.

Here is the ground situation,

Traditionally, farmers in the Delta Districts managed two crops, the short-term ‘Kuruvai’, a summer crop, followed by the long-term ‘Samba’ crop. This is possible following a normal monsoon with water released from upstream Karnataka. This will mean that water storage level in the Mettur Dam in May will be at least 90 feet, and water is released on June 12 for cultivation.

This year, as has happened earlier, despite Supreme Court orders the neighbouring State government has declined to release water.

Farmers in Tamil Nadu have again given up the ‘Kuruvai’ and the Samba crop is delayed by more than two months.

This year, with water released on September 20, farmers are just beginning transplantation or direct sowing of paddy. With the north-east monsoon just around the corner, this crop will be just a few weeks old and cannot withstand the flooding that accompanies the torrential rains.

http://m.thehindubusinessline.com/news/ ... 146976.ece

the area under paddy in the delta had shrunk alarmingly even as kuruvai as a paddy season was under threat. Samba was now the only cropping season in areas that did not depend on groundwater for irrigation and that exposed it to the vagaries of nature leaving samba paddy at the mercy of the monsoon depending on the water release from upstream.
.... Prof. Janakarajan and his team made specific in-depth field work in four typologically unique villages in Voimedu in Nagappatinam district where salinity and seawater flooding affected even one cropping, Raghunathapuram in Tiruvarur district where two or even three cropping are achieved with abundant groundwater potential, Kandamangalam where one crop was achieved while the second was a gamble as groundwater turns brackish beyond 150 feet and Budalur in Thanjavur district which, situated between two rivers, is entirely dependant on surface water but where only brackish water is available up to 45 feet beyond which hard indigenous rock blocks further access.

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/tam ... 736629.ece

[Javee]

Here is the cropping pattern for delta districts, it has covered the entire spectrum, Atleast now stop misrepresent facts that TN farmers are out to get KA.
It has district wise pattern depending on water availability.
http://agritech.tnau.ac.in/agriculture/ ... uvery.html

[mnag]

i have been mentionning about Mettur dam having 40 TMC + possibility of NE monsoon for TN which will take care of drinking water needs.

Do you have a source for this?

TN is asking for water for irrigation and despite Karnataka telling any new water release comes at cost of drinking water supply if TN still insists, it is very clear TN is not sharing the distress and only wants entitlement of its share during good times. TN doesnt solely own the water to decide that Karnataka people should go without drinking water.
If Mettur had 0 TMC and TN was asking for drinking water and Karnataka didnt release more water (on top of 40+ TMC that was released this year.) you can blame Karnataka. But at this time since TN has secured drinking water and wants additional water for irrigation, it is TN that is exhibiting entitlement mentality and not sharing the distress

As far as rhetoric goes, this is all fine and dandy. Question is, why is the SC agreeing with TN's asks? Can't KA's lawyers open their mouths and explain the situation in the court?

I posed this question above, re-posting it here:

Now, the question I have been asking for a long time, and haven't found reliable answers to is, how much water is really there in KRS and Kabini? If, as KA states, it does not have water, why is the SC judgment asking for water to be released? And what are the state's AG and lawyers doing to present an accurate picture to the SC, so water release can be regulated? But it looks like KA wants to just blame TN and do nothing.

Can you take a stab at the above and try to answer my question? Else, you are simply going in circles of rhetoric (KA great, TN bad, and bringing in Paki issues in an internal matter).

Here is link for 40 TMC - this sep 9 article quotes 38 TMC in mettur. I had read another which mentions 45 TMC - will post if i find it
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 617004.ece

Here is some good news for all - hopefully NE monsoons will help TN
HOW TN GOT 14K CUSECS DESPITE CRISIS IN K’TAKA http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalor ... 532967.cms


Karnataka's affidavit mentioned 25 TMC. This article shows the breakup (adds to 29 TMC)

Currently, the Cauvery basin in Karnataka (comprising 4 reservoirs) has a total of 29.68 TMC of water. "Of all the reservoirs, KRS has about 10.02 TMC, Kabini 8.02 TMC, Harangi 5.12 TMC and Hemavathi 6.33 TMC," explained a senior engineer of Cauvery Neeravari Nigam.

Some more excerpts from the article

Officials of Cauvery Neeravari Nigam, according to sources, have already briefed the government that if water is not used judiciously in the coming months, the IT city will witness severe shortage of water starting from December.

[Aditya_V]

Still no one in KA is looking into the question, Bengaluru gets Soth East adn North East Moonsoon, why does the City have no storage capacity and 80-90% of its Urban water requirements have to be supplied from Cauvery?

[putnanja]

Bangalore doesn't get NE Monsoons, only SW monsoons (not SE). Please check your sources. Having been a long term resident of the city, once rains end by September, we don't get any more rains rest of the year, not counting abnormal events like depression in bay of Bengal etc.

Thippegondanahalli reservoir was also used in old days but its not sufficient to serve the growing city's needs. And lack of rains like this year will mean even less storage.

[Sachin]

Release 6,000 cusecs to TN for two days, SC tells Karnataka
No change in the Supreme court order. Water has to be released for next two days. Central Govt. willing to act as mediator and arrange talks between the two states, "provided both agree to come.".

[Aditya_V]

Bangalore doesn't get NE Monsoons, only SW monsoons (not SE). Please check your sources. Having been a long term resident of the city, once rains end by September, we don't get any more rains rest of the year, not counting abnormal events like depression in bay of Bengal etc.

Thippegondanahalli reservoir was also used in old days but its not sufficient to serve the growing city's needs. And lack of rains like this year will mean even less storage.

TN gets North East Moonsoons through Depression in Bay of Bengal and whenever it rains in Chennai in Oct- Dec, it rains in Bengaluru- not in Cauvery catchment areas, but in and around Bengaluru.

I am not talking about 2016, probably too late to do anything. But hearing some JD(S) and INC leaders clearly they fell giving water to TN is waste of their water. But long term tapping more and more and Cauvery water to meet Bengaluru expanding Urban and Industrial uses is only going to cause more disputes, many TN cities along the Cauvery have given up on Cauvery as a source. Compared to Traditional use TN has come ddown heavily due to dams in Karnataka in the last 100 years. Alternative sources for Bengaluru water supply should be looked into like Machanabele resovoir, long distance pipeline from Linganmaki, Bhadravati etc. Putting anther Pipeline from Makedatu, downstream from all Karantaka dams and catchment area for Mettur dam which the Karnataka Govt is planning is certainly not being fair.

Bangalore records highest rainfall in 100 years

Not only this, city has also exceeded seasonal average rainfall of 226.1 mm that comprises of October, November and December.

As per statistics, October is the rainiest month for Bangalore during the season. -

https://bwssb.gov.in/content/about-bwssb-2

[csubash]

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/karna ... 160928.htm

There you go.Rule of Law, Federalism - my foot. I think most state can get away from corruption/bribery/murder by a resolution in the legislative assembly. All these talk about drinking water didn't happen earlier in the monsoon when there was adequate water & most went to water intensive crops. I can open all my gates during early part of monsoon, use up all resources & cry when it gets well past time to release water to the lower riparian state. Again check in IMD website. Bangalore received normal rainfall this monsoon & excess rain last year but facing acute water shortage according to KA. Why would be any different next year or when it actually is deficit rain for a mammoth city. Certainly TN which has been in receiving end of GST, population control, sharing of central resources, water is going to encourage groups with fissiparous tendencies.

[arshyam]

^^No need to play the victim. Let's argue on merits.

[GShankar]

^^No need to play the victim. Let's argue on merits.

I agree. So far "rule of law" is being followed albeit with some political drama and delays.

However, now, everyone should focus on bringing the "sid" government and "associated" goons to justice for any crimes that they may have committed. And the same should be followed in TN as well.

[Sachin]

Central initiative in Cauvery row fails
Ms. Bharti added that she would go on a "hunger strike" if there was violence in either State on account of sharing of water.
I guess now all eyes look up to the Hon. Supreme court....

[Javee]

This maximalist position has what drove TN to knock on the SC doors every time the monsoon fails.

[kvraghav]

Didn't the honorable sc highlight how Maharashtra bailed out chennai in case of drinking water and showed it was a team player. Wonder how chennai gets such treatment?
As far as sc judjwnt goes, I think the judge who has been lawyer of jayalalitha should recuse himself to be fair.

[kvraghav]

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalor ... 453446.cms
Chennai can get water from outside its catchment area and so far away but bangalore cannot?

[Javee]

^ KA can supply all of its share to Bengaluru, no one is going to question that. TN shares the water from its overall share, as long as TN does not demand separate quota from KA for Chennai then it isn't a problem to discuss.

[Gus]

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalor ... 453446.cms
Chennai can get water from outside its catchment area and so far away but bangalore cannot?

chennai can even get water from brahmaputra. as long as TN is not demanding more share in kaveri for chennai, it is totally irrelevant to water sharing issue.

[kvraghav]

Forget more share, in case of chennai TN wants others share and talks of federalism. Totally relevant to water sharing of south Indian rivers. The Krishna river too has all the committees similar to this.

[arshyam]

Fishing in troubled waters, are we? Where is Chennai asking for Kaveri water? And TN did pay for the works to get Krishna water, which incidentally, also helped irrigating parts of Rayalaseema.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 625468.ece

The amount will add to Rs. 430 crore provided by Tamil Nadu ever since the project was launched in 1983 with MGR and NTR as Chief Ministers on either side.

(Please read the full article.)

Btw, what's preventing GoK from building alternatives to BLR's water supply - I read that a lot of surplus water was released to AP in the Krishna basin. If Chennai can get Krishna water 430km away, why can't BLR from Tunga/Bhadra, if not the Krishna itself? The former are anyway closer than the main Krishna river.

This discussion is going around in circles and no new facts are emerging. And this problem will recur in the future and BLR's water supply will get worse. Why not put our BRF thinking caps on and actually try to think of a workable long-term solution. Or, if regurgitating barbs is the only option, media outlets like News9 or BLR mirror beckon as the paragons of misinformation and ignorance.

My last post on this. I am bored.

Edit: added link.

[Yagnasri]

Chennai gets water from Telugu Ganga also. NTR saw to that.

Bangalore city merged 8 municipalities into it around 2006 and all these areas are getting water from the project started in 2005 and water comes from Cauvery river for that. I am not sure before that there was any such project. Bonds were issued with US AID Guarantee to raise money for that project and it was mainly funded by initial contributions from households and regular water charges are being collected to repay the bonds. Ironically P.C. attended that launching function.

Yours humbly was involved in creating that structure.