Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Aug 2015 10:16

Mistral is expensive LPD to have and its not a technology marvel that Indian SY cannot build at half the cost when more challenging task like carrier is under taken. We are better of ignoring Mistral and let some one take a shot at it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Aug 2015 10:26

there is no urgent need for LPDs unlike carriers or submarines.

the mighty Jalwashwa can continue to function as a training vessel in the lpd domain.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Aug 2015 11:02

Great opportunity,the IN should seize it.Why,after buying them we could even lease out one to Russia in exchange for a free Akula-2 lease!

Seriously we can leverage this deal with extra Rafales in a nice "package". Now the Russian specs relate mainly to their commns eqpt.,being removed and the fact that they were to operate the KA-52 heavily armoured tank buster attack helo (which even has ejection seats for the pilots),along with Russian armour,etc.which should be no problem for us as we too operate T-90 MBTs and Russian BMPs,etc.

In addition,our 11 remaining SHs can be immediately transferred from the Viraat next year,when she gracefully retires to one of the Mistrals.Extra Harriers could even be obtained from the USMC which is receiving its first JSFs. remember that the USMC picked up not too long ago all the 70+ RN Harriers and their eqpt.lock,stock and barrel,aircraft which had at least 15-20 years of life left in them for an absolute song. So the Mistrals will be able to carry their own air complement for support of the assault forces.The RN Harriers did very well in Afghan ops and in the Gulf Wars.

The amphibs would also immensely help in our ASW ops against the PLAN subs with ASW helos aboard. here too part of the "pakcage" could include a deal for the dozens of multi-role helos that the IN needs for its major warships and carriers.

PS:USN LCS frigates cannot carry ASW eqpt,too heavy! This is interesting,as the IN is also planning to build around 16 shallow water ASW corvettes of approx. 750t+.What ASW eqpt. these combatants will carry is a moot point.Our aging Pauks (Abhays) carry a stern-mounted VDS,the same type as on the Kamovs,an RBU and heavyweight TTs. Being larger,one would expect these vessels to also carry a hull/bow sonar,plus a helo-deck if poss. for helo ops ,no hangar since these vessels will be operating near the coast.

http://news.usni.org/2015/07/30/lcs-ant ... tion-study?
LCS Anti-Sub Warfare Package Too Heavy; 3 Contracts Issued For Weight Reduction Study

By: Megan Eckstein
July 30, 2015
The littoral combat ships USS Independence (LCS 2), back, and USS Coronado (LCS 4) are underway in the Pacific Ocean in April 2014. US Navy photo

The Littoral Combat Ship’s anti-submarine warfare mission package needs to shed some weight before it can deploy on a ship, and the Navy awarded three contracts to help find weight-reduction ideas.

The mission package includes two mature and fielded sonar systems, plus the hardware needed to integrate the systems with the ship. LCS Mission Module Program Manager Capt. Casey Moton said Thursday at a Mine Warfare Association lunch that each of his three mission modules is given 105 metric tons of weight on the LCS, but the ASW as it stands today surpasses that limit.

The mission package includes a Variable-Depth Sonar – the Navy chose the Thales UK Sonar 2087, the same VDS used on the Royal Navy’s Type 23 frigate – as well as the Multi-Function Towed Array used on the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers (DDG-51) and eventually the Zumwalt-class destroyers (DDG-1000). The Navy cannot overhaul either mature system, so it has hired Advanced Acoustic Concepts, L-3 Communications and Raytheon to find more creative ways to reduce weight.

In the early stages of the weight-reduction effort, “we got proposals that ranged from modifying the sensors to reduce weight to things as simple as using composites in the handling system,” Moton said.
“So our initial contract is to three companies, and they will do a transition study for us over the next couple months that will give us a lot more insight.”

Each team will submit a package that brings the mission module to under 105 metric tons, and the Navy will then pick and choose which ideas it likes and use them to build engineering development models. Moton said his office had not decided how many EDMs to build but would make that decision over the next few months.

He said he could not recall how many tons over weight the current ASW package is, but “all three companies proposed schemes that would get us to the weight” and he was confident he could meet the requirement to get onboard a ship.
[/quote]

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Aug 2015 16:46

Fresh negotiations with Sikorsky for naval helicopters: Manohar Parrikar
By PTI | 7 Aug, 2015
Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 07 Aug 2015 16:55

Austin wrote:Mistral is expensive LPD to have and its not a technology marvel that Indian SY cannot build at half the cost when more challenging task like carrier is under taken. We are better of ignoring Mistral and let some one take a shot at it.

Plus in does not want podded propulsion.

Having said that it does make sense. Buy these two and build more vikrant class commando carriers

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Aug 2015 17:07

Someone wanted to know about the SS-N-15 ASW missiles being fired from std 533mm TTs.They are on the Kirov class CBGs.On one Kirov there are supposedly twin TTs behind shutters . technically,they can also be fired from any IN warships fitted with 533mm TTs that fire Russian torpedoes.

10 21-inch (533-mm) torpedo/missile tubes (capable of firing SS-N-15 ASW missiles on later ships.
The SS-N-15 Starfish ASW has a range of 45-50 kilometers. This non strategic weapon was deployed in 1973. It uses the 82R torpedo or 90R nuclear depth charge missile.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Aug 2015 21:42

India, Brazil or Vietnam may buy Mistral helicopter carriers built for Russia - experts

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 08 Aug 2015 06:26

^^^^^saw that coming

And if it has Russian parts then, they(Russians) might be more into Indians buying it.

The part of hull was made in Russia (i think) don't know how France can return that & keep the vessel from sinking (maybe some new tech.)

we might be able to get good price out of them as Brazil & Vietnam has no tender out for such ships but we have , which in turn means right now they don't have any plans for such ships .

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 08 Aug 2015 06:28

India may be among the potential buyers, Pukhov said.

“The first country is India, which has expressed its desire to buy one ship and build three more ships of this type at its shipyards, and, as far as I know, the French would want us to assist them in this,” the expert said.

maybe increase order by 2 to get both of them at good price & built 4 @home.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 08 Aug 2015 07:39

Get both, as it can come useful even in relief operations. We are going to see a lot of activity in the middle east in any case.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Aug 2015 12:51

Expansion of the report. The interesting part is that China is not mentioned as a potential buyer.The PLAN have their own plans for even larger amphibs.Japan,SoKo and Oz all have their own amphib designs being built and in service.So where are the potential buyers? Russia would have little objection to India buying a Mistral,as it would get its money back and perhaps be able to sell the IN some Russian naval helos to go with the deal (KA-52 naval helos are readily available,having been ordered for the Mistrals).There may be a tacit understanding between all 3 countries kept under wraps.As I said earlier,there may be more "goodies" in a French "hamper" ,which may include Rafales,naval helos,etc.

The only flaw that I can see in acquiring Mistrals is that unlike the Juan Carlos design,naval fixed wing aircraft will not be able to operate from them in a crisis,thus increasing the available number of flat tops. A flat top of size of approx. 28,000t is supposedly needed for 29K ops. It is unknown if the NLCA could operate from a Mistral deck with a ski-jump added,but when the NLCA will arrive is anyone's guess.If we do sign on and acquire Mistrals,it means that building another Vikrant class CV is essential,as we would need at least 3 CVs until the larger N-powered Vishal makes its debut.

India, Brazil or Vietnam may buy Mistral helicopter carriers built for Russia - experts

7 August 2015 TASS
India has expressed its desire to buy one ship and build three more ships of this type at its shipyards.

India, Brazil and Vietnam are the potential buyers of Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, which France has refused to deliver to Russia, Head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Ruslan Pukhov told TASS on Thursday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and his French counterpart Francois Hollande on Wednesday achieved agreement on terminating the contract for the delivery of two helicopter carriers of the Mistral class, concluded in the summer of 2011.

As the Kremlin said, the two leaders agreed that Russia would get a compensation for the money paid under the contract, and France would return Russian equipment and materials. After that France will be free to use the ships at its sole discretion.

French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian has said some countries have already displayed their interest in Mistrals.

"Ships are normally built to order. That is why, this will be a unique case and we’ll all see how this soap opera will end," the expert said.

"It is logical to presume that the French will offer these ships to the countries, which planned to have this type of vessels under their naval program, or sell these ships at a reduced price to the countries traditionally buying used French hardware," Pukhov said.

India may be among the potential buyers, Pukhov said.

"The first country is India, which has expressed its desire to buy one ship and build three more ships of this type at its shipyards, and, as far as I know, the French would want us to assist them in this," the expert said.

The Mistral helicopter carriers may also be of interest to Vietnam where "economic growth is observed," Pukhov said.

"Brazil is the third country. They [Brazilians] hypothetically could consider the purchase of such a ship on condition the French give a good price," the expert said.

The Mistral amphibious assault ships may also be given to the French Navy, which already has three helicopter carriers of this class, Pukhov said.

"The French Navy does not have sufficient money for this. The Navy commander has already made a statement that the Navy no longer needs Mistrals. But if the French fail to sell them, it is quite possible that they will be able to force their Navy to buy these ships," the expert said.

PS:The Soothis and Pharoahs are also interested say other reports.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Aug 2015 13:16

There is little advantage in buying mistral when its much easier and better to build an LPD of similar design.

They can build such ships at cochin or MDL even if it means building to a foreign design

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Aug 2015 13:40

One is readily available.The Trenton/Jalashwa is v.long in the tooth and 3 more Mistrals could be built at home. Remember that the Viraat is being pensioned off next year.IAC-1 will arrive 3 years from now.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 08 Aug 2015 17:01

^^^You were batting for Juan Carlos design and which can carry F-35''s in the future. What happened to that?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 08 Aug 2015 17:32

Two Mistral ships are available outright-

Sevastopol
Vladivostok

This is a fortuitous development. Both France and Russia will be happy with India as the eventual customer.

Lets buy these two ships and close of the LPD acquisition before it turns into another saga. While the Navy has a requirement of 4 such ships, IMHO we will be better off building another Vikrant Class carrier with a modified primary mission. Our counterpart to the America class aircraft carrier.

I am skeptical of our use case for a large dedicated beach landing capability - little relevance in the India-Pak context and high unlikely in any other scenario. We do need these ships for Yemen type evacs though - and two should suffice along with smaller LSTs.

A Vikrant class carrier can support 'modern' amphibian operations which will be stealthy and use special operations forces - and the action may not be confined to the shore but farther inland by flying in with helicopters. Plus LCVPs and help with company sized assaults. A capability that INS Viraat has:

With Cochin SY dry dock free, we can achieve a three carrier navy in 10 years time. By the time the 65K ton design should be final, ultimately replacing INS Vikramaditya around 20 years from now.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 08 Aug 2015 17:40

There are two 'ideal' end states viz flat tops ~2025:

Option-1:

1 x Kiev Class {INS Vikramaditya}
2 x Vikrant Class {INS Vikrant and INS Viraat}
2 x Mistral Class
1 x Vishal Class {INS Vishal - under construction}

Option-2:

1 x Kiev Class {INS Vikramaditya}
1 x Vikrant Class {INS Vikrant}
1 x Juan Carlos MKI {3 more under construction}
1 x Vishal Class {INS Vishal - under construction}

Thus option-1 gives you as many as 5 flat tops in service @ 2025 vs. option-2 which may yield at max 3 such ships. This is assuming we can conclude the LPD contract. Worse, there is a chance that France may win the contract anyways with Mistral MKI!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Aug 2015 17:42

there is onlee one problem with the Mistral idea. where is the additional $3-$4 billion going to come from?

remember the ships are complete, so payment will have to be in full for delivery.

this is money with our SSN fleet would most use.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 08 Aug 2015 21:45

Is it mere coincidence that Mistral class ships are the same size as the huge RO-RO commercial ships good for trade connectivity between Indian coast and Chabar port

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Aug 2015 23:50

Let France supply the designs to India, India gets Russia to build the Mistrals. And, India buys them all.

That for sure will work. Cannot see any flaw in that logic. They will come in time, budget is never a problem when it comes to Russia, so that will never be an issue. At worst cut 50 Armatas.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Aug 2015 03:43

Philip IN's NWC Journal:

http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/book/journals-magazines

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Aug 2015 09:31

Tx Ramana,Will ck it out.Interesting report here.Moroccco may be the first to acquire Amur SSKs.Theyw ere offered to us too.The price that it is being offered to Morocco would be v. interesting to see,in comparison with western equivs.

http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2015/08 ... to-moscow/
Morocco Might Acquire Russian Submarine During Moroccan King’s Visit to Moscow
Saturday 8 August 2015 -

morocco world news
Morocco Might Acquire Russian Submarine During Moroccan King’s Visit to Moscow

Rabat – King Mohammed VI’s upcoming visit to Russia by the end of 2015 has revived speculations that Morocco will acquire its first Amur 1650Russian submarine.

Multiple Moroccan and Russian media reports said negotiations about the price tag of theAmur 1650, which kicked off in 2013, are expected to finish during King Mohammed VI’s prospective working visit to Moscow.

A number of local media outlets suggested that the several postponements of King Mohammed VI’s visits to Russia were due to a failure to reach an agreement on the deal’s final price.

However, a senior source from Royal Moroccan Armed Forces said this is “mere speculation of the Russian media.”

Quoted by Hespress, the source confirmed that if Morocco really has the intention to buy the Russian submarine, it is likely to be “a long term deal.”

The same source went on to add that more important deals are suspended currently, due to the lack of financial resources, mainly helicopters with anti-submarine warfare which are a must for the reinforcement of Morocco’s four new Sigma class frigates.

The Amur 1650 was offered to Morocco by the Russian state arms export company Rosoboronexport in 2013, as part of its effort to promote the modern non-nuclear submarineon the world market.

The Amur 1650 was designed by the Rubin Naval Design Bureau based in St.Petersburg, which belongs to the United Shipbuilding Corporation.

Measuring 67 meters in length and 7.2 meters wide, the Amur 1650 includes an anechoic tile coating on the outer hull and a skewed 7-blade propeller.

The submarine is capable of carrying18 missiles, torpedoes, or mines, and can be operated in any oceanic area, except for regions with extensive ice fields, at any weather, and in shallow and deep waters.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 10 Aug 2015 10:24

How long before Morocco gets invaded & taken over like Libya

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Aug 2015 17:44

Invade a "kingdom"? Heaven forbid! Not the way of the West!

More Mistral news.Front runners appear to be the Pharoahs-cum-Soothis,who plan to transport Egyptian troops to fight in the Yemen. The Soothis have enough moolah for the moment. The report also mentions us as a poss. buyer,but will we be able to match the price the Soothis are willing to pay? The canny French might split the two amphibs,selling each to separate navies and buiding extra ones in the bargain! The report also adds that extra large hangars were factored in for Russian KA-52 attack helos.This shouldn't be a problem acquiring them for either India or Egypt. Morocco wanting Amurs is also a new development.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /31278439/

Mistral Dispute With Russia Settled, France Eyes Exports
By Pierre Tran August 9, 2015
Mistral warship Sevastopol

PARIS — Russia provided €893 million (US $978 million) in advance payment for the two Mistral helicopter carriers, the core figure of the French repayment for a deal which Presidents François Hollande and Vladimir Putin have canceled, a French official said Aug. 7.

“The advance payment totaled €893 million,” while the widely reported figure of €785 million was incorrect, the official said.

Hollande’s office said Aug. 5 the Mistral deal was canceled and Russia would be refunded the advance payments.
Separately, Egypt, backed by Saudi Arabia, is interested in buying the two Mistrals as part of a plan to form a regional maritime force, afternoon daily Le Monde reported.

France also repays Moscow's costs, including training 400 sailors and stripping off equipment and shipping it back to Russia, the official said.

DEFENSE NEWS
Hollande, Putin Reach Accord on Canceled Warship Deal

The total repayment is “less than €1.2 billion,” François Hollande said Aug. 6, Agence France-Presse reported. The government will present the total repayment and details to parliament next month for ratification, the president told journalists in Egypt on Aug. 6.

Detailed technical negotiations on canceling the controversial deal took some 2-1/2 to three months, after starting around the end of February or early March, the official said.

“This is a balanced solution for France and Russia,” the official said.

Hollande: 'No Difficulty' For France To Find Mistral Buyers

France faced a long, costly legal wrangle if the two countries failed to reach an agreement, with Russia seeking penalty payments on top of repayment. An international arbitration might have taken two or three years with France facing a possible bill of €1.5 billion to €2 billion, the official said.

The Mistral sale contract is understood to have been written under Swiss law. Under the force majeure clause in a sales contract, there is generally a 180-day suspension until a decision to cancel is required.

Prime contractor DCNS had planned to hand over the first Mistral, the Vladivostok, Nov. 14.

“Egypt and Saudi Arabia are entirely ready to buy the two Mistrals,” said a French official in Egypt, Le Monde reported. Saudi Arabia wants Egypt to build a naval fleet that could project power regionally in the Red Sea and the Mediterranean.

“There is strong interest in the Mistrals from some countries in the region, to build a maritime capability,” said a diplomatic source, the report said.

Egypt could use the two warships to transport 1,000 troops, armored vehicles and helicopters to intervene in Yemen, Libya or other countries where a joint Arab force might become involved, the report said. Saudi Arabia and Egypt have close relations, with Riyadh providing US $4 billion of general funding to Cairo.

Separately, Saudi Arabia is also financing Lebanon’s €3 billion acquisition of French arms in a bid to modernize the armed forces.

The Mistral helicopter carrier has sparked interest in the export market so the French cancellation of the deal should not be a concern, said Hollande.

"These ships attract a certain amount of interest among many countries, and there will be no difficulty in finding a buyer for these ships, without extra cost for our country," Hollande told journalists in Egypt.

Conservative and far-right politicians have criticized the cancellation, which some see as undermining France's reliability as an arms exporter.

The deal covers the payments made by Russia and costs including training, without any penalties, Hollande said. The financial details will be sent to parliament in September for ratification.

Hollande made the remarks in Egypt, where he was attending the inauguration of a widening of the Suez Canal. France has sold the Rafale jet fighter, a DCNS multimission frigate and four Gowind corvettes to Egypt. Cairo is in negotiations to buy two more corvettes, which were options under the approximately €1 billion deal for the four Gowinds.

“The initial price for the two ships was around €1.2 billion. The price in the agreement, which is the best possible, will be less as Russia will be repaid to the nearest euro the advance payments that have been made,” Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Aug. 6 on RTL radio.

Le Drian declined to say how much Russia would be paid, but said the government will inform parliament as there will be a ratification and parliament will be very quickly informed of the amount and the terms.

France had offered a settlement of €785 million, while Russia has asked for compensation of €1.163 billion, according to Russian daily Kommersant, Reuters reported.

There is worry over how the repayment might hurt the defense sector.

“How will the funds be found? Who will pay for the repayment?” said member of parliament François Cornut-Gentille. The cost should be shared fairly by the government rather than placed fully on the Defense Ministry as that would eat into equipment procurement, he said.

The Defense Ministry could argue that the cancellation and repayment were decisions taken at the highest level of state and the financing should be shared rather than loaded on the military, said a defense specialist.

France hopes the Mistrals will be sold to other navies.

“I am convinced there will be other clients,” Le Drian said. “It is desirable [to find buyers] as quickly as possible. There are presently a certain number of countries which have shown their interest in these two ships. There are many.”

Canada, Egypt, India and Singapore are among the countries interested in the Mistral, Les Echos and La Tribune website reported.

Le Drian dismissed concerns that the contract cancellation might hinder French exports, pointing out that France has sold €15 billion of arms so far this year.

The Mistral is a multimission ship that could serve as a civil-military vessel for humanitarian operations, said Sen. Jacques Gautier, deputy chairman of the Committee for Defense, Foreign Affairs and Armed Forces. The vessel is designed with a large hospital and command center, which could interest regional players such as Brazil and Indonesia.

The French Navy sails three Mistrals and does not wish to erode its tight budget by acquiring another two. The cost of maintenance of the two ships is at least €1 million a month, Hervé Guillou, chairman of DCNS, told journalists July 23. DCNS, the prime contractor, declined comment.

The maintenance costs include running the ships’ engines and keeping the rust at bay, an industry executive said.

Export prospects negotiate hard but foreign officials could look for a bargain as the Mistrals are already built to Russian technical requirements, the defense specialist said.

That goes against the practice of armed forces specifying their own needs when buying the weapons.

Foreign governments often ask for equipment to be assembled locally but the warships will already be built, the specialist said. The first ship, Vladivostok, was ready for delivery in November and the second, Sevastopol, had been due for handover later this year.

The Russians will strip off their equipment but the warships were adapted to sail in Arctic waters, with the helicopter deck capable of being heated. The hangers were built extra large to accommodate the Kamov attack helicopter. Those features make the ships highly specific.

These factors will make the Mistrals hard to sell and if a deal goes through, France will take a loss, the specialist said.

Hollande spoke with Putin on the afternoon of Aug. 5 to confirm the two countries had reached agreement on canceling the 2011 contract for the ships, the French president’s office said.

The agreement meant Russia will be fully repaid on the advance payments, Russian equipment fitted onboard will be returned, and France will have full ownership and use of the two ships, the Elyséé presidential office said.

“The president of the Republic and Vladimir Putin were pleased with the climate of friendly and open partnership seen in the negotiations,” the office said.

The Russian government said France has paid back the funds and the matter is closed, Reuters reported. “France has already transferred these funds and, after the return of equipment, will acquire ownership and be able to take charge of both ships,” the Kremlin said in a statement. "Moscow considers the Mistral issue completely resolved."

France had come under pressure from allies in the West, Eastern Europe and the Baltics to cancel the warship deal as the Ukraine crisis deepened and the Russian role in the breakaway of Crimea was highly suspect. But France also wanted to maintain good relations with Russia and there was domestic pressure to uphold the Mistral deal.

Yes,ideally the Juan Carlos is a better bet for us than Mistral,but a second Vikrant class CV would do equally well,better in fact from the air complement/capability viewpoint,as the carrier will operate 29Ks and NLCAs,commonality with the other 2 CVs,Vik-A and Vikrant. The "ship (Mistral)" in hand is worth more than two on the drawing board". This acquisition would speed up time immensely for the IN in its needs for amphib vessels and allow the immediate building of a second Vikrant CV at CSL. The Mistral design could then be used for a few more amphibs built at home. Ro-Ro merchant ships were used by the RN extensively in the Falklands War. We could do the same when required for carrying various vehicles.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Aug 2015 20:01

IAI en route to extended range Barak-8ER

New interceptor will be made by IAI and will leverage existing Barak-8 architecture
A totally new, short-range Barak-8 system is currently being tested

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) is expected to unveil the extended-range variant of its Barak-8 point and area defence system within the next 18 months.

Boaz Levy, Executive Vice President and General Manager, Systems Missiles and Space at IAI, told IHS Jane's that the Barak-8ER (extended range variant) is currently under "internal development as a growth path of the Barak-8". The Barak-8ER - which, Levy noted, "leverages the current Barak-8 building blocks" - will be offered for both naval and land-based applications.

The Barak-8ER interceptor configuration was first unveiled as a concept at the 2009 Paris Air Show and is effectively a base model of the highly agile Barak-8 missile, with the addition of a large diameter solid-propellant jettisonable booster to the existing dual-pulse rocket motor. The latter is understood to be equipped with a thrust vector control (TVC) system. The booster's addition to the ER variant effectively doubles the down-range capability of the Barak-8 interceptor to 150km, said Levy.

IAI is flagging Barak-8ER as a completely IAI-developed system, including the interceptor. The current Barak-8 interceptor is supplied by Rafael Advanced Defence Systems, although IAI says that the Barak-8ER interceptor "might include some Rafael components, but essentially it is a completely new interceptor".

Levy said that for both naval and land applications the Barak-8ER system will be supplied with a modified six-cell variant of the eight-cell Barak-8 launcher, and that the Barak-8ER interceptor can also be adapted to other launcher configurations, including the US Navy's eight-cell MK 41 vertical launch system (VLS).

However, he noted that the system engineering solution for the Barak-8ER allows it to leverage the existing Barak-8 architecture: the same IAI Elta ELM-2248 S-band digital active phased array Multi-Function Surveillance, Track, & Guidance Radar (MF-STAR) 360º radar (the Barak-8ER land variant uses the rotating Land-Based MF-STAR system), the same BMC4I system, (produced by IAI's Defense Systems Division), and the same naval or land-based launcher - with some minor modification - used with the Barak-8. "This allows us to offer an expanded engagement envelope to the current system, with minimal hardware changes," Levy said.

Designed to engage multiple beyond visual range threats, the low launch signature Barak-8ER is understood to retain the same autopilot/inertial navigation system and active radar seeker guidance as the Barak-8, although some modifications to the software and to the missile control surfaces are likely. The booster increases the length of the missile at launch from its current 4.5 m to nearly 6 m, although the length in flight after the booster has been jettisoned may be slightly less than the base Barak-8 missile, if a TVC is not present. The missile diameter and fin spans are thought to be the same as the base Barak-8. The booster weight is currently unknown, although the missile's weight after the booster has been jettisoned is the same as that for the current Barak-8 configuration.

Levy said that initial operational capability (IOC) for Barak-8ER will first be declared for the naval variant, followed by IOC for the land variant. He declined to comment on a launch customer for Barak-8ER, but noted "existing Barak-8 customers will be interested in this configuration because it offers additional capability to their current system". Levy would not speculate on Barak-8ER as a future option for the Israel Navy's Sa'ar class corvettes, or the Indian Navy's Project 15E Kolkata-class destroyers, which are set to be equipped with the Barak-8 system.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 13 Aug 2015 12:38

Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD

- INS #Viraat going into docks of #CSL for the final refit dry-docking; under construction #Vikrant (Right).
- While Vikrant is being fabricated & fitted with modern equipment, INS Viraat is scheduled 2 b decommissioned in 2016.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 13 Aug 2015 15:24

Heck, never realized that Vikrant is so much BIGGER.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 13 Aug 2015 19:14

Just wondering how operational is INS Jalashwa? We don't hear any news of it's deployment.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 15 Aug 2015 07:54

INS Viraat Arrives for Final Refit

and

-Ankit

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Aug 2015 05:51

Everything you wanted to know about Southern Naval Command

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 17 Aug 2015 06:25

India, US kick off talks on cooperation in construction of aircraft carriers

NEW DELHI: India has now kicked off discussions with the US on collaboration in technologies associated with aircraft carriers, in a move which comes soon after the defence ministry here set the ball rolling for construction of the country's largest-ever warship, the 65,000-tonne INS Vishal.

The India-US joint working group on aircraft carrier technologies met for the first time in the US from August 12 to 14, which also saw the Indian delegation led by Western Naval Command chief Vice Admiral SPS Cheema visit the under-construction supercarrier Gerald Ford at Newport News Shipbuilding in Virginia.

Aircraft carriers like Ford, which will have EMALS (electromagnetic aircraft launch systems) technology to replace the traditional steam catapults for launching aircraft, are of special interest to India since it wants INS Vishal to have similar systems.

The US embassy, in a statement here, said the Indian delegation received briefs on the US Navy's management of aircraft carrier programs, met with senior Pentagon officials, and toured the R&D facilities for aircraft carrier launch and recovery systems as a first step towards exploring opportunities for cooperation.

"During the JWG, the US and Indian navies held candid and open discussions on various aspects of aircraft carrier development, including design, integration, test, evaluation, management and oversight of carrier construction," it added.

India has asked the US to share technology for EMALS developed by General Atomics under the bilateral Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), which has so far discussed joint production of relatively modest projects ranging from hand-held drones to protection gear for soldiers.

The defence acquisitions council, chaired by Manohar Parrikar, had recently sanctioned an initial Rs 30 crore as seed money for the proposed project to construct INS Vishal. This second indigenously constructed carrier is likely to have nuclear propulsion for greater endurance as well as CATOBAR (catapult assisted take-off but arrested recovery) configuration for launching fighters as well as heavier aircraft from its deck, as reported earlier by TOI.

The INS Vishal project is important since the country's 56-year-old carrier INS Viraat is slated for retirement next year, which will leave India with only one operational aircraft carrier in the shape of INS Vikramaditya.

The 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier or INS Vikrant being currently built at Cochin Shipyard will be ready for induction only by 2018-2019. It will take well over a decade to construct INS Vishal, which can kick off only after its size, propulsion and the aircraft it will carry is finalized.

srai · Post by **srai** » 17 Aug 2015 08:01

The IN needs to order second Vikrant-class while working on Vishal design. There are too many unknowns. Vishal is not going to join the IN anytime before 2030.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 17 Aug 2015 16:59

The Vishal is the second Vikrant class. Not sure why this is so confusing.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Aug 2015 17:07

Anurag wrote:The Vishal is the second Vikrant class. Not sure why this is so confusing.

Anurag,

"Classes" are typically a single design. Like Delhi class. You do not call the vishakhapatnam a Delhi class ship. As it has become clear "the Large" is now a large 65k -- well over 50% larger -- possibly US influenced R&D experiment, the saner bumblers are voicing the need for 3 carrier groups to still be realised. So one can get time off for refit every now and then and still have one on either coast.

Like the Arjun, the LCA, the kalavari, the HFW, the FH77 and so on a simple cautionary suggestion to not let resources be idle for a decade until vishal becomes a real design. However, that would give the indian navy capabilities beyond the occasional fleet review. So, bad idea, we are not having it. Tear down the dry dock for a new candle making factory.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 17 Aug 2015 17:20

Thanks for the condescending reply, perhaps you can next explain to me the difference between a surface and sub-surface boat. The point is there will be no second Vikrant other than the Vishal, period. To put it in perspective for everyone who keep asking for a second Vikrant-class. Think LCA=Vikrant and AMCA=Vishal. The requirement is for a Vishal type displacement and higher boats for the future. The Vikrant is just the first step in the evolutionary process.

Peace out!

srai · Post by **srai** » 17 Aug 2015 17:30

Chill out bro

The things that are being talked about for Vishal class are something only achievable beyond 2030. Things that are being talked about are nuclear propulsion (only 3 countries have surface ship with nuclear power), EMALS (only US has this technology), much bigger design, new aircraft types, etc. Remember that you will also need to build shore-based facilities too.

So the argument can be made to order the second of the Vikrant-class that can join the fleet by 2024 giving the IN its 3-carrier force. In the meantime, continue with design (and negotiation of technologies that need to be acquired) of the futuristic design that is Vishal. As Shreeman pointed out, we have seen far too many optimistic projects stretch decades when a rational decision would have been a two-pronged approach: buy more of existing design and R&D for the future. That way you don't experience "lost" decade (or two).

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 17 Aug 2015 17:40

Are we taking votes?

Mine certainly goes to building a second vikrant class carrier.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 17 Aug 2015 19:29

There is NO requirement for a second Vikrant-Class type of similar size.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 17 Aug 2015 23:48

Requirement or not as of now, if Navy does order a second Vikrant then N-LCA will also be upped in numbers. It will be a boost to both local development programs.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Aug 2015 02:13

The IN said, some (10-15?) years ago that the Vishal will be the second in the Vikrant Class. They knew then that these two ships will be 1000s of tons apart.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Aug 2015 09:30

Vik-A to go in for a 4 month refit after the naval Review at Vizag next year most likely at Pip. Given the short period of the refit,it is possible that the LRSAM B-8 may be installed aboard it,supposed to be tested in Oct. in Israel. There were earlier reports that B-1s from a G class FFG were to be fitted to it.