Austin wrote:
And the graphics looks like an artistic impression , on how the interceptor looked like and how it would have worked based on the conversation the writer must have had with the scientist rather than real thing,
But at this very early stage of development , it makes sense to not revel every thing about the system.
And the images published by IToday, carry no credits.
The interceptor should be the actual one. Pls remember that it was launched from Wheeler Island and not ITR. ITR is a big site and I have seen the A-x series launchers there. I was told that as the Prithivi series launchers were smaller, they could be launched from many different places. Of course, it happened many moons ago and ITR would have undergone many changes now.
New Delhi, Dec 02: Buoyed by a successful missile interception in higher atmospheric zone, defence scientists are now planning to shoot down incoming warheads, much closer to ground, with a new missile named Pad.
The country's top Missile Scientist Vijay Kumar Saraswat told a press conference today that "within the next three to four months the DRDO is planning to carry out another missile interception in the endoatmospheric zone" -- a pattern used by the Americans in the development of their Patriot PAC-III anti-missile shield.
"We have demonstrated the technology to defend against incoming ballistic missile threat," he said, but added it would take another three to four years to develop for the country a full-fledged anti-missile theatre shield.
Saraswat's announcement comes in the midst of recent criticism of the DRDO which has been accused of allowing "heavy time and cost overruns" in critical projects.
He admitted that the Pad was still a technology demonstrator and said it would need another half-a-dozen tests to validate it as a missile shield.
The scientist said in any future indigenous missile shields, India would have to have a mix of exoatmospheric and endoatmospheric interception capabilities to match short reaction threats.
He ruled out that India might opt out of trying to acquire either the American or Israeli anti-missile system saying "we are only at the beginning and at this stage co-development or outright acquisition cannot be counted of."
Saraswat is the Chief Controller of the country's missile programme and project director of the air defence missiles, whose team successfully carried out India's first ever surface-to-surface missile interception in the exoatmospheric zone on November 27.
JCage wrote:I assume it is real. IT tomtoms it as such, and the entire article appears to be (as you noted), written as if RajC observed the test himself.
Wouldnt make sense for them to PS it, and claim that it was theinterceptor. The missile looks like a standard Prithvi to boot.
I think the nose section appears to be a bit longer than that of the Prithvi. Compare the picture with this
ramana wrote:
The nose cone has to be there with the KV as it contains the radar seeker etc. Separating that would expose it to aero forces.
That is an interesting point. The PSLV/GSLV heat shield is discarded at about 100kms. Wonder if the PAD kill vehicle's shields are ever discarded at just 50kms?
Also interesting would be the proximity fuze's calculations for predicting the optimum destructive point, since the speed of the targe is extremely high. Even a few millisecond would mean just a deflection of trajectory, instead of destruction, which would be costly for a nuke warhead.
ramana wrote:The nose cone has to be there with the KV as it contains the radar seeker etc. Separating that would expose it to aero forces.
Yup. and this interceptor speed was baby step to what is in future, thus aero forces will only grow. My earlier observation was to emphasize that per diagram the nose cone is part of KV and not a cover to KV inside. The only time I have seen open KV is some amrika bahadur KV that has optical (telescope) seeker, inherently meaning it can't be unfurled below ~90Km altitude. Those could be more suitable for hunting SRBM/MRBM that just jumped out of atmosphere with hot RV.
It is a modified prithvi, with a kill vehicle inside. If vanilla prithvi does not hit, the kill vehicle inside will be realeased for a nearly assured hit.
Rishi wrote: It is a modified prithvi, with a kill vehicle inside. If vanilla prithvi does not hit, the kill vehicle inside will be realeased for a nearly assured hit.
It does not seem like that. The second attempt is from 'another missile', per the Vishal Thapar report in IBN video.
Also, in the IBN video, at 0:31sec and later, they show a static test (file-shot?). There seem to be 2 jets of thrust, one pointed down and the other horizontal (at 90 degrees to the first). Is that from a single engine? Seems like there should be 2 nozzles there?
Last edited by SriKumar on 03 Dec 2006 01:13, edited 1 time in total.
NEW DELHI: In yet another indication of the deep but often covert strategic ties between New Delhi and Tel Aviv, it's now clear that there was an Israeli imprint in the incipient ballistic missile defence (BMD) system tested by India last Monday.
The crucial long-range tracking radar (LRTR) used in the Indian "exo-atmospheric" BMD system, which "successfully intercepted" an incoming Prithvi missile on November 27, owes its origins to the Israeli Green Pine early-warning and fire control radar. India had imported two Green Pine radars, which constitute a crucial part of the Arrow-2 BMD system deployed by Israel to counter the threat of Iranian and other missiles, in a hush-hush manner in 2001-2002.
"Other than the basic radar, which we modified to meet our requirements, all the other elements, hardware and software, are homegrown," said DRDO chief controller R&D, V K Saraswat. Since missile defence can take place both inside (endo) or outside (exo) the earth's atmosphere, DRDO will now test an "endo-atmospheric interceptor" in the next four-five months. The "exo-atmospheric" hypersonic interceptor missile tested on Monday destroyed the Prithvi missile at an altitude of 50-km.
The "endo-atmospheric interceptor", in turn, will shoot the "hostile" missiles much closer to earth with a 30-km range. "Our endo-atmospheric interceptor will be similar to the American Patriot-3 AMD system, which has a 15-km range," said Saraswat.
Though the indigenous BMD system is still several years away from becoming operational, as reported by TOI earlier, it will be a "unique" two-tier system once it is ready. The system will have a mix of the two types of interceptor missiles for a kill probability of 99.8%. "A couple of these missile batteries, for instance, should be able to protect Delhi," said Saraswat. "We have made a very good beginning. At least half-a-dozen tests would be required over the next three years before the system can become ready," he added.
DRDO claims to have modified the Green Pine radars, which can detect targets at ranges up to 500-km and can track them at speeds over 3,000 metre per second. The modifications included making the radar capable of tracking intermediate range ballistic missiles.
Nalla Baalu wrote:Now any resemblence of proposed endo-atmospheric interceptor to what AAD is shown carrying as showcased in 2004 defexpo is very coincidental onlee.
What is that missile in there never seen that before , seems like all solid fuel like Patriot
DRDO claims to have modified the Green Pine radars...
Does this mean we have acquired the radar tech thru reverse engg ?
Did we buy more than 2 radars and have modified them based on our needs?
Did Israel and India collaborate on this new radar?
Maybe our DDM-In-Chief Rajat Pandit is putting words in mouth of DRDO officials. I couldn't find any quote attributed to DRDO about them modifying the Israeli radars.
Critical to the capability is a modified Israeli Greenpine radar, which tracks the incoming missile. But critics of the missile defence concept have pointed out that successful interception under controlled conditions can be misleading. The technology, it is generally believed, is several decades away from maturity.
So, if India were to claim that it has a capability to blunt missile threats, what could it mean for nuclear deterrence in the region? A possibility is that an adversary could over-react to overcome the stated defences by firing more missiles
Dont you people think that DRDO should have done this test under secrecy? (Only with knowledge of PM and some top brass.)
No, not if the goal was to make your adversary over-react. Spend more on his missiles. Read this and previous thread on how a 66.7% hit probability increases the number of missiles by 300%. With DRDO claiming 99%+ , it is not funny anymore for Pak.
ravula wrote:No, not if the goal was to make your adversary over-react. Spend more on his missiles. Read this and previous thread on how a 66.7% hit probability increases the number of missiles by 300%. With DRDO claiming 99%+ , it is not funny anymore for Pak.
Good..rather.. pleasent maths.. I like that. Well, thanks for clearing my doubt.
Forget about pak launching more missiles... check out kgoan's excellent analysis in another related thread.
kgoan wrote:Folks: aaahhh . . . .
This is starting to make a little more sense now . . .
You see, the issue is not Indian defence it's an Indian attack!!
See, the thing is we're looking at this as *raising* the costs of a potential Pak attack while we defend, while our friends are looking at it as *lowering* the cost and threshold of an Indian attack!
You get
Consider an Indian first strike against PakeeLand is constrained by potential Pak retaliation by the remnants. But look at it now, *if* we get this working. After an Indian first strike the Pakees will *not* have 3 or whatever missiles per city as in Tanaji's scenario. Because most of them would be in the first target list of ours.
It's only the scattered and broken remanants that we have to defend against. Remember the "bolt-from-the-blue" stuff we laugh at the Pakees for fearing. Mebbe the Pakees aren't as stupid as we think - and they sure as heck don't believe GoI's pious mouthings of no-first-use.
Thats whats making some of folks a tad queazy as well.
Also, *that* freedom, to decide to go first or not puts *us* in the driving seat. That's true strategic independence. It gives our nuke posture as large an advantage over PakeeLand as our conventional forces currently have.
And I think Alok's right. An Indian ABM system isn't just about Pakistan.
Austin saar! That AAD was showcased in defexpo 2004 and back then it was termed a 'universal launcher' and the dummy it was shown carrying was considered just a dummy.
If you were to compare the 'dummy' with endo-atmospheric interceptor model (lying supine in lower-right corner of Rishi's last screen-shot), they are structurally identical. Now from horse's own mouth it is to be PAC-3's indian counterpart.
CNN-IBN Video of Prithvi [AXO]
Site : FileFront
Size : 2.53 Mb
Format : Zip
Instructions : Unzip and open the HTML file [Requires Flash Player installed.]
India's successful test of its own anti-ballistic Prithvi missile Monday still leaves the country a long way from fielding its own, home-produced short- and intermediate- range BMD systems. But it wasn't chickenfeed either.
...
"According to DRDO officials, the new missile had inertial guidance in mid-course and active-seeker guidance (i.e. a radar-seeking warhead) in the terminal phase," Singh wrote. "While the first stage of the interceptor was similar to the Prithvi missile, its second stage was a totally new segment. The yet to be named "high supersonic" interceptor missile has been developed by the DRDO as part of an 'exo-atmospheric intercept system' designed to 'hit-to-kill' incoming ballistic missiles."
Singh noted that DRDO officials told reporters the new ABM could detect a target in less than 30 seconds and launching an interceptor at it within 50 seconds. "According to the officials, many technologies, like high-maneuverability of the interceptor missile, were validated in the test. The flight time for nuclear capable missiles launched from Pakistan is a bare 5 to 8 minutes," he wrote.
...
The upgraded Prithvi ABM interceptor appears to rank with the U.S. Patriot PAC-3 system, Russia's S-300 and Israel's Arrow in its intended ability to intercept short- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles. However, the Patriot, the S-300 and the Arrow are all deployed, much tested systems. Even after the extremely positive results of Monday's test, the upgraded Prithvi ABM still clearly as a long way to go to achieve that status.
Indeed, the United States has been trying to sell the Patriot to India as part of the increasingly close strategic weapons cooperation between the two nations. However, so far the Indians have balked at that. Also Singh noted what he called "informed speculation over the years ... that India may already have deployed a few batteries of the Russian S-300 system as an interim arrangement."
... At the end of the day, when all the cautions, caveats and qualifiers have been made, a crucial underlying fact remains: India has now shown its capability to home produce an effective anti-ballistic missile prototype. France, Britain, Germany, China and Japan have not yet developed the capability to make one of these by themselves, though Japan will certainly is on a crash program to do so with extensive U.S. cooperation and China is already lavishly supplied with S-300 systems, and possibly others, bought from Russia.
The strategic balance of the world therefore shifted on Monday. India took a very large step indeed and served notice that it has much to give, as well as to receive, in its strategic weapons and BMD cooperation with the United States.
From the above article, for the benefit of lazy lurkers:
In the light of the successful Prithvi Air Defence Exercise this week, it would now appear that a lot of DRDO technological birds, including unsighted ones such as the Trishul and the Akash, have now come home to roost .
So all this time they were only technology demonstrators flying under the radar to reach the main target?
it will be a "unique" two-tier system once it is ready. The system will have a mix of the two types of interceptor missiles for a kill probability of 99.8%. "A couple of these missile batteries, for instance, should be able to protect Delhi," said Saraswat. "We have made a very good beginning. At least half-a-dozen tests would be required over the next three years before the system can become ready," he added.
Good..rather.. pleasent maths.. I like that. Well, thanks for clearing my doubt.
