LCA news and discussion

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 15 Jun 2009 10:40

Praveen wrote: ...
LCA MMR related info from Trishul blog @ http://**************/2009/06/india-specific-assorted-news-briefs.html

Mate, according to the Israel government the EL/M-2084 Advanced Artillery Radar belongs to the Army thread.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Jun 2009 16:42

Weapon Trials Update
The Latest edition of Vayu says that Weapon Trials is taking place at Jamnagar & the aircrafts used are Pv-2, Pv-3 & LSP-1. The bombs droped include 25lb practice bombs & Standard 1000lb (inert). They have a picture of the 1000lb being droped.

nash · Post by **nash** » 16 Jun 2009 16:53

hi please post the data related to that vayu article and also the picture.

Thanks in advance.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 16 Jun 2009 18:40

Kakarat wrote:Weapon Trials Update
The Latest edition of Vayu says that Weapon Trials is taking place at Jamnagar & the aircrafts used are Pv-2, Pv-3 & LSP-1. The bombs droped include 25lb practice bombs & Standard 1000lb (inert). They have a picture of the 1000lb being droped.

can you please post the scanned pages.. Please.. please..

No LGB's dropped?

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 16 Jun 2009 20:47

air to ground trials are to be completed by july 2009 in kalaikunda and jaisalmer ,picture of Tejas dropping 1000ib bomb in unseen earlier ,even crosswind landing trials were conducted it seems ,

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Jun 2009 21:36

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 16 Jun 2009 21:51

Kakarat wrote:

Sir
It is difficult to read.Can you provide the link or any other way to read it.
Thanks in advance.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Jun 2009 21:54

Jamal K. Malik wrote: Sir
It is not readable.

sorry
will not provide a better resolution than this as the book is just out & i got it just today
It is not ethical to do that

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 16 Jun 2009 22:29

It is readable. Click on the image and it opens up in a new window. I didn't have any problem reading the text.

naird · Post by **naird** » 16 Jun 2009 22:38

Kakarat wrote:
Jamal K. Malik wrote: Sir
It is not readable.
sorry
will not provide a better resolution than this as the book is just out & i got it just today
It is not ethical to do that

Its not readable, it did open in an another window but its not readable. I agree with you, its not ethical to do that. However can you give a brief summary about weapon trials for jingo's out here ?

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 16 Jun 2009 22:40

RaviBg wrote:It is readable. Click on the image and it opens up in a new window. I didn't have any problem reading the text.

Jamal K. Malik wrote:
Kakarat wrote:
Sir
It is difficult to read.Can you provide the link or any other way to read it.
Thanks in advance.

Thanks to both,it working and it is a nice report.

naird · Post by **naird** » 16 Jun 2009 22:42

Well my friend read out what was in the article...its nothing new i believe. The weapon trials conducted during Feb & March was covered by Ajai shukla. Its the same thing, however Vayu is reporting now. Weapon trials in May is something to look out for !!!

Question to all guru's --> How can we do weapon trials on a target without A2G radar mode ? Is it done through the POD attached ? Atleast to fire missiles we might need radar integration, correct ?

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 16 Jun 2009 23:23

Atleast to fire missiles we might need radar integration, correct ?

not really , if it does not have to be guided onto a target that is , LCA has fired and R-73 previously.

naird · Post by **naird** » 17 Jun 2009 00:36

Nihat wrote:
Atleast to fire missiles we might need radar integration, correct ?
not really , if it does not have to be guided onto a target that is , LCA has fired and R-73 previously.

True i was talking about guided missile firing...was wondering if that can be done through POD ?

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 17 Jun 2009 10:54

naird wrote:Well my friend read out what was in the article...its nothing new i believe. The weapon trials conducted during Feb & March was covered by Ajai shukla. Its the same thing, however Vayu is reporting now. Weapon trials in May is something to look out for !!!

Question to all guru's --> How can we do weapon trials on a target without A2G radar mode ? Is it done through the POD attached ? Atleast to fire missiles we might need radar integration, correct ?

What Ajai Shukla covered was the practice bomb trials near Bangalore.. pre-AI09.. He did not cover the heavier stores dropping, which happened after AeroIndia..

You dont need a radar always to drop bombs... it is just free-fall bombs on to a marked target.. Guided bomb trials will follow later..

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 17 Jun 2009 16:00

Doesn't CCIP need a radar to work? The Vayu article snippet talks of CCIP so does it mean that radar was integrated?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Jun 2009 16:54

jaguar and mig27 do ccip but using a laser ranger in nose I think.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 17 Jun 2009 18:55

Looks like the LCA in that Vayu picture is carrying an LDP so could be using that for CCIP (if that is possible).

Aditya_M · Post by **Aditya_M** » 17 Jun 2009 19:30

Yeah. And CCIP will be first calibrated on flat ground so that the adjustments for terrain features, as well as integration of data from other sources can be made on top of it.

rrao · Post by **rrao** » 17 Jun 2009 19:50

Altitude data from Radio Altimeter ,which is an FMCW radar is used to compute CCIP! The same is true for jags and mig-27!

naird · Post by **naird** » 17 Jun 2009 20:33

Aditya_M wrote:Yeah. And CCIP will be first calibrated on flat ground so that the adjustments for terrain features, as well as integration of data from other sources can be made on top of it.

Apologies for being so Naive, what is CCIP ?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 Jun 2009 20:49

naird wrote:Apologies for being so Naive, what is CCIP ?

Constantly Computed Impact Point.

Basically the sighting system takes into account the aircraft movement, the terrain, the characteristic of the store that is being released, to have a cross hair in the HUD which predicts where the store will land.

Drevin · Post by **Drevin** » 17 Jun 2009 23:09

Can the pilot specify the impact point and allow the aircraft computer to decide the time the PGM is released? or is that too much to ask?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 17 Jun 2009 23:12

Drevin wrote:Can the pilot specify the impact point and allow the aircraft computer to decide the time the PGM is released? or is that too much to ask?

That is what PGM's do. The target is designated or 'lased' and then the munition finds its way there following the beam. For 'dumb' bombs it is the CCIP that is used.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » 18 Jun 2009 00:44

ccip but using a laser ranger in nose I think

CCIP doesn't need to use a laser ranger or radar. The system should be able to use the aircraft's altitude and target elevation that the pilot is navigating to. Then the system can calculate the impact point and portray it. This is useful when good target elevation data is available. There is no way of designating a target with this system so the computer displays on the HUD where the bomb would hit if dropped at that moment.

Can the pilot specify the impact point and allow the aircraft computer to decide the time the PGM is released? or is that too much to ask?

That's called CCRP or Constantly Computed Release Roint and it is used when target can't be visualized (weather, night, etc.) Preset coordinates are input into the mission computer which will guide pilot to release line and automatically release the weapon when the predicted fall point crosses the target.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Jun 2009 00:51

Drevin wrote:Can the pilot specify the impact point and allow the aircraft computer to decide the time the PGM is released? or is that too much to ask?

the pilot can specify the impact point, but in the CCIP mode, the moment the pilot does so, the bomb is released. the CCIP mode basically produces a moving "pipper" on the cockpit HUD. the pilot needs to press the trigger or "pickle" as they call it, when the pipper hovers at the point of impact that he desires. it basically looks like a ball at the end of a the thread..the ball shows the impact point if the bomb is dropped. as the 'thread' gets shorter and the ball gets closer to the target point, the pilot would be concentrating really hard. and when the ball is at the center of the target, the pilot pickles and the dumb bomb is released from the aircraft.

the computer basically accounts for and corrects for wind, altitude and the trajectory to compute at what time the pilot needs to pickle to get the dumb bomb to hit the target. it is a science and just because the bombs are called dumb doesn't mean that the pilot just prays to God and releases the bombs.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » 18 Jun 2009 00:58

That is what PGM's do. The target is designated or 'lased' and then the munition finds its way there following the beam. For 'dumb' bombs it is the CCIP that is used.

I think CCRP (see above post) does what Drevin's talking about.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 18 Jun 2009 01:35

^^ Yes, CCRP is correct. That was a typo on my part.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Jun 2009 09:11

From what I have read of CCIP, selecting the target in the HUD does not need a radar but CCIP computation does require it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jun 2009 09:14

do modern pilots practise mk1 eyeball dive bombing and glide bombing of the legendary Stuka and Dougass Dauntless variety ?

in a Shiv pokhran firepower demo video I did see a Su30MK release a shower of 20 small bombs
in a diving attack, perhaps using the OLS sight in some way.

m mittal · Post by **m mittal** » 18 Jun 2009 10:32

Do we have any update from panwallas about the status if trainer LCA and LSP-3, 4, 5..... and Naval LCA???

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 18 Jun 2009 10:59

Singha wrote:do modern pilots practise mk1 eyeball dive bombing and glide bombing of the legendary Stuka and Dougass Dauntless variety ?

in a Shiv pokhran firepower demo video I did see a Su30MK release a shower of 20 small bombs
in a diving attack, perhaps using the OLS sight in some way.

GD me no garu but wouldnt that be highly dangerous in todays environment with point defence systems galore

I mean that would make an ideal target for something like Tunguska or a Shilka

I guess in the case of Rambha it is possible bcoz it will dispatch the point defence system with a Kh31 and then go in with the bomb load to smash tanks ityadi to meet their makers....JMT

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jun 2009 11:40

ya but nothing beats the banshee scream of a dive bombing run every panel and screw in the plane vibrating with the increase of speed, release of the centerline 1500kg bomb, following it down to the deck, then rolling inverted and fly at 50ft level....a IJN carrier pilot actually did this in the 1st wave attack on Midway per a book I read.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 18 Jun 2009 12:18

Singha wrote:ya but nothing beats the banshee scream of a dive bombing run every panel and screw in the plane vibrating with the increase of speed, release of the centerline 1500kg bomb, following it down to the deck, then rolling inverted and fly at 50ft level....a IJN carrier pilot actually did this in the 1st wave attack on Midway per a book I read.

Wow! That would give a head rush like no other I imagine...In today's combat though given the speeds those kind of attacks would be very hard/nearly impossible to pull off...what they could use those attacks on is say a bunch of chicom tanks and they have managed to take out their AD support elements in this case a flight of four rambhas could come in and rain hell on the ill fated armour....would be a sight to behold indeed...ironic it would be, for on one side one would observe systems engineered to nth specification by humans working in unision to have that effect and on the other side it is taking human life...such is war...cruel...unkind...and ruthless!

viveks · Post by **viveks** » 18 Jun 2009 12:41

Good topics....the kind of discussions taking place here....v can virtually be fighter pilots sitting and posting in BR.

Well...I was once watching this documentory on youtube about the Vietnam Wars....the way the US pilots tackled them....there was one episode where the pilot of F-86 could not fire at the Mig-19....because he was too close or in fact moving along with him at very low height. They both kept rolling over each other at such a low level. It was simply amazing to see it on CG/OpenGL animation.

Youtube has one of the finest videos of encounters in Vietnam/Korea. One should really watch it. I think they took it from that episode called dogfights....from the history channel.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 18 Jun 2009 12:45

^^^ OT but if you really wanna get close to flying a crazy devil beyond mach 1 while sitting at home I highly recommend the Lock On Modern Air Combat sim if you have a really good gaming rig nothing else comes close to this game...I have seen the whole dogfight series this game lets you actually experience that sort of crazy flying....very realistic indeed.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » 18 Jun 2009 18:32

Over-the-shoulder bombing

Sorry to digress, but this is pretty cool.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » 18 Jun 2009 18:39

GD me no garu but wouldnt that be highly dangerous in todays environment with point defence systems galore I mean that would make an ideal target for something like Tunguska or a Shilka

Dive toss bombing is useful when target's signature is too small to be visible on radar such as entrances to caves/underground bunkers.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 18 Jun 2009 20:46

Hey Guys,
Does anyone know about the status of LSP 3. Last July on Broadsword it was published that LSP 3 was almost ready, its been an year since and there is no discussion on the progress of LSP3. I think something went wrong while integrating the systems. Can someone shed some light?

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 18 Jun 2009 20:54

well we have same information on LSP-3 what u have ,unless paanwala near hal can spill the beans