Bharat Rakshak

prashanth wrote:

GShankar wrote: TN is not at KA's mercy. There is something called as Indian Federation and they decide what KA should get. Almost all of the kaveri riots are politically manufactured.
As to what will linger and what will not, we shall see.

It is not, and never was. Please do not make provocative statements.

Well, if one says TN should pay money to KA, then my response is apt.

You please read the relevant conversations for context before saying my 6 words are provocative.

Added later - I do concede that I have used an example (KA-TN) while the original poster made a general statement w.r.t upper riparian - lower riparian.

habal ji is from KL.

The pandya land has zero historical claims on mullaiperiyaar.A dam has been constructed and water course changed 180 degrees and pandya land is enjoying this water for free.

habal jis statement is provocative but he has a point.

but let me add massive rail and road traffic passes through the palakkad pass and lakhs of malayalis live in chennai and coimbatore.Also sdre malayalis use the punalur pass.They may not be the high profile TFTAs in South Block/North Block or the lakhs who go to Gulf, but there are mangoabduls too in Chera land.

Let us also not forget the Parambikulam-Aliyar project which too diverts the west flowing water towards Udumulapet/Pollachi.

His point is very different from what one construes as rule of law. His statements in this context seem very much like the "intolerance" narrative.

Oh, problems will linger, upper riparians will be unhappy, so on and so forth. I may be wrong but doesn't Periyar river start in TN, then go to KL and comes back to TN? Probably TN would be forced to do a China by diverting waters from the source.

Either way, a contract made for 999 years or so should stand for so many years unless both parties agree to change it. Why so much blackmailing?

Similarly for Cauvery. If the courts rule something then that should be followed. And all appeals are welcome.

The rules of engagement are set. out of court settlements can only be done if the deal is agreeable to both parties. And the ruling party of upper riparian state can approve a deal that opposition party might dislike and make moves to cancel because that will be "good" politics for them.

IMO all these river matters should be handled by a central authority to make peace. All "big" DAMs, waterways, etc. should be manned by central govt. employees as well.

The problem with mullaiperiyaar is the deal was made between the British govt representing the Madras Presidency (which included the present day state of TN) and the princely state of Travancore and there was a glaring power assymetry.There is no precedence for changing course 180 degrees in Hindu tradition.

This historical sub-text cannot be ignored in modern India where all states are equal before Indian law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullaperiyar_Dam

Although the Periyar River has a total catchment area of 5398 km2 with 114 km2 in Tamil Nadu,[12][13] the catchment area of the Mullaperiyar Dam itself lies entirely in Kerala.

The Periyar river which flows westward of kerala Arabian sea was diverted eastwards to flow towards the Bay of Bengal to provide water to the arid rain shadow region of Madurai in Madras Presidency which was in dire need of a greater supply of water than the small Vaigai River could provide.[18] The dam created the Periyar Thekkady reservoir, from which water was diverted eastwards via a tunnel to augment the small flow of the Vaigai River.

The lease provided the British the rights over "all the waters" of the Mullaperiyar and its catchment basin, for an annual rent of ₹ 40,000

Many, if not all historical ("un-finished") business will seem unfair Today. The point being, as of Today, Indian courts are the only system for arbitration (loosely speaking). Any direct agreements between states need quite a bit of leadership for consensus building. We are far away from that.

As many blame prior TN state leaderships for not securing 'A' good river (deal) back in the day during the state boundary negotiations, other states have similar or related complaints about their own past state leadership.

We need a better framework to share our national resources.

The chozha and pandya lands have diametrically opposite arguments for their respective claims.

That the chozha country has historical claims on kaveri is well known but pandya lands claims on mullaiperiyaar is very recent.otoh,the chera land had bitter experiences with later chozha kings thousand years back and this perhaps motivated their 'decision' to seek a distinct identity.But the cheras and pandyas have had no bad blood until very recently.

These are complex issues.The cheras cannot repudiate mullaiperiyar unilaterally given the importance of palakkad pass or the malayali population in chennai/coimbatore.Historically,the punalur pass was the gateway to travancore during british era railways,though its importance today is much diminished.

Infact in the theni region(closest to thekkadi),theres a substantial 'telugu-kannada' tamizh population which benefits from mullaiperiyaar.

Thats why habaal saars post is provocative but he has a point.The chera people are dismayed at the rhetoric coming from people like vaiko/tamizh nationalists.At the minimum mavericks/jokers like Swamy should not fish in troubled waters to show off their 'tamizhness'.

The dam itself is a new structure and so is the diversion of water, so going back to historic claims is of less value. A more pragmatic discussion could be had by looking at the most recent time of influence - say the madras presidency/state, to reap the gains. So, madras presidency lived post independence as madras state and the gains could have been made there. However for present day historical claims are of no use imo.

Forgetting the historical (un-official) claims, the current situation is ours to discuss. And at this time if one tries to make a point by provocation and you try to justify it, then how is it different than vaiko / tamil nationalists and maverics/jokers? (See, I deliberately did not include susu's name in the maverick reference because I don't think he is one )

For now the status quo is maintained by the courts and shall it remain leaving aside all politically motivated riots and misgivings some might have and justifications that some others might provide. No need to digress any more. Let's discuss if there are any new points.

Let's not go back to Cheras and Cholas. My native town was supposedly the capital of Cheras during Senguttuvan, does that mean we can claim his old kingdom or should erstwhile Vijayanagara dynasty claim the entire South?

Mullai periyar treaty was renewed in the 70s, so while the treaty was signed between the British and their vassal, it was renewed and agreed upon by 2 democratically elected chief ministers. If you start reneging on the commitments, then we might as well go back to states reorganization and start looking at the boundaries.

@Javee +108!

GShankar wrote:
Forgetting the historical (un-official) claims, the current situation is ours to discuss. And at this time if one tries to make a point by provocation and you try to justify it, then how is it different than vaiko / tamil nationalists and maverics/jokers?

Very good point.

I was not justifying,merely saying habal saar had a point.I pointed out KL will face consequences too.

Also,I insinuated into the generic argument of habaal saar my own thoughts on mullaiperiyaar.

So,guilty as charged.

But I would like to gently point out "River use framework",existing treaties,political realities are not always congruent.

GShankar wrote:Well, if one says TN should pay money to KA, then my response is apt.
You please read the relevant conversations for context before saying my 6 words are provocative.

As you have noted, the poster did not mention either of the two states in his comment, and is not from KA, but I am. On your part, you can either choose between correcting the poster or provoke and start a slugfest. Your pick.

Hahaha. I agree, congruent they are not. But riling in the internet will not help either imo. Reality is that if the problems are solved then there is no room for politics.