I know this come upSurya wrote:
You neo khalistanis need to brush up
So much effort turned up only that epitome of fairness from th wonder years BBC
You could have read the idiot tully
If none from the Sikh community (cops,so called leaders, stock who cowered and cried ) could clean the mafia inside everything else is moot
Again what it shows is you think first of your religion and your region and not the country
So nothing better can be expected
Desi sourceApar Singh Bajwa
June 09, 2004
It was around five in the morning on June 6, 1984, when I was summoned to the army cantonment area in Amritsar. When I reached there, I was given a special task.
Around six in the morning I reached the Golden Temple complex, which had been ravaged during Operation Bluestar launched by the Indian Army to flush out terrorists holed up in various places, including the Sri Akal Takht Sahib.
What I saw shook me emotionally. Half the Akal Takht [see image above] was devastated and bodies lay all around in the parikrama of the Sri Harmandir Sahib. There was deathly silence. As a policeman I knew how to overcome my emotions. I controlled myself and went to the Darshni Deodi.
Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, Bhai Amrik Singh, General Shubeg Singh, and other dreaded terrorists lay dead. Bhindranwale's face was swollen and blood was oozing from the wounds in his bullet-riddled body.
My job was to identify Bhindranwale's body. The man who lay dead was indeed Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.
I was entrusted with the task of removing the bodies from the temple complex in view of the impending visits of then prime minister Indira Gandhi, and President Giani Zail Singh. When I returned in the evening I started working on removing the dead, which included women and children. We removed 800 dead from the complex and other buildings in the vicinity.
What made me sad was that many innocent lives had been lost which could have been saved with a bit of effort. Worse, the Punjab police was not even informed about the operation and everything was being controlled by the army and paramilitary forces. Only those police officers who were required for certain jobs were summoned from time to time.
On June 4, I had had a meeting with Lieutenant General Ranjit Singh Dayal and Major General Kuldip Singh (Brar) in the cantonment area with the help of some senior officers of the Punjab police. I had requested General Dayal to allow me some time to negotiate a surrender by visitors and terrorists who were inside the temple complex.
I got a positive response from General Dayal and he gave my mission the green signal. About 250 persons -- men, women and children -- surrendered before someone in the army blew up a water tank in the temple complex. This provoked the terrorists who started firing. Many innocent people lost their lives in the crossfire. No further efforts for surrender could be made as there was mistrust amongst the terrorists. Post-mortem reports later confirmed that some of those who had been killed had had their hands tied behind their backs.
By the time Mrs Gandhi and President Zail Singh visited the temple complex it had been cleaned up thoroughly and not a trace of blood or flesh could be seen anywhere. But the stench of death was still overpowering and could bother you for days in case you managed to get some of it with the air that you breathed.
The Punjab police is often blamed for letting arms and ammunition into the temple complex. But on an average 2,000 vehicles go into the complex area and even if we had spent one minute per vehicle it would have taken us days to clear 2,000 vehicles while the additions would have awaited their turn.
The amount of weapons seized during Operation Bluestar was nothing compared to the weapons seized during Operation Black Thunder a few years later.
Apar Singh Bajwa, who was deputy superintendent of police in Amritsar at the time of Operation Bluestar, spoke to Chief Correspondent Onkar Singh.
...People from the Sikh community commanded Op Blue Star, led the initial troops in, and continued the fight and won it in the years to come.Surya wrote:
If none from the Sikh community (cops,so called leaders, stock who cowered and cried ) could clean the mafia inside everything else is moot
Really?! You may first need to learn how to spell correctly the insults you want to direct against people.sarabpal.s wrote:
Few people really big fagot, retard and ignorant about fact. how many you can denounce it.
The amount of weapons seized during Operation Bluestar was nothing compared to the weapons seized during Operation Black Thunder a few years later.
Rajit...People from the Sikh community commanded Op Blue Star, led the initial troops in, and continued the fight and won it in the years to come.
people need to be clear on a words what they expecting from other@sarabpal
search a bit more you will find a lot more - after all for many the faint hope a good word in from ... might get you the prized migration doc
BTW could you answer Rohits question
as you like I made points.Surya wrote:awwww am sorry for you having to explain your Khalistani position and calling Brar a rat.
Late in contributing is not the same as late in following what's going on. Since a very specific statement was made about none in the Sikh community rising to the challenge the record needed to be set right or we do people like Brar a disservice.Surya wrote:Rajit...People from the Sikh community commanded Op Blue Star, led the initial troops in, and continued the fight and won it in the years to come.
you are late to the debate - but in short this crapfest started when the neo Khalistanis called Brar and by extension the armymen who entered the Temple as rats.
the basic point is we are forced to send the army and since no one else cleaned it up - you cannot whine now
Brar had never even once visited Golden Temple prior to Op Bluestar - like many truly god fearing people he probably has a spiritual connection with his God, and does not need to make public gimmick of it, not being a career politicians like the thugs in the SGPC and SAD.sarabpal.s wrote: brar know what he did otherwise he would visit the golden temple.
It was in a specific contextLate in contributing is not the same as late in following what's going on. Since a very specific statement was made about none in the Sikh community rising to the challenge the record needed to be set right or we do people like Brar a disservice.
You already have answer. Seek and you shall find.habal wrote:At the end of the day when you have to choose between Khalistanis and Congress .. whom would an Indian choose in present circumstance ? If a referendum is conducted today, it's answer may surprise/shock many.
Well the point isrohitvats wrote:^^^And your point being?
And if occasion arises again it would be done in as fair a manner as possibleI have no regrets. I did my duty as a policeman and I tried to act in as fair a manner as possible
+1 if situation demand . Army had power and ultimate winner so carefull with emotion and religious place.chaanakya wrote:Well the point isrohitvats wrote:^^^And your point being?And if occasion arises again it would be done in as fair a manner as possibleI have no regrets. I did my duty as a policeman and I tried to act in as fair a manner as possible
not a tear,,,,even if it was tirupati or madurai.....saadhak wrote:+1 Totally agreerohitvats wrote: "Janani Janma-bhoomi-scha Swargadapi Gariyasi".....There is nothing beyond the motherland...if tomorrow GOI has to storm a Hindu place of worship to flush out anti-national elements, not a tear will I shed.
After talking to both Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne and Army Chief General Bikram Singh this week, Mr Menon advised the Government that Army should own and operate the medium lift attack helicopters.
-AnkitFour exercises held on the western front under Western and South Western Commands in 2011 and 2012 had brought out the need to have attack helicopters as an integral part of the assembled firepower.
Indeed a great development, long overdue, probably delayed due to the spat between MoD and Gen VKS. I assure you, there are many more twists and turns ahead on this topic.Ankit Desai wrote:Indian Army to get its own attack helicoptersAfter talking to both Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne and Army Chief General Bikram Singh this week, Mr Menon advised the Government that Army should own and operate the medium lift attack helicopters.
This article contains a real gem if trueAnkit Desai wrote:Indian Army to get its own attack helicopters
- that would be like adding salt to the "wound"Someone quoted on netSingha wrote:^ Apaches in army
1.It’s true. Economic Times quotes Gen. Bikram Singh for the news that the Army will get to keep the Helicopter fleet.RajitO wrote:This article contains a real gem if trueAnkit Desai wrote:Indian Army to get its own attack helicopters
The first batch of Apache helicopters to be bought from USA programme may go the Indian Army.
But to think that fixed wing assets - transport and CAS will go to the army might be hoping for too much.
Read it all here:"The Army will get 'future' acquisitions. It will have to come up with its own concrete plans for induction of attack helicopters, with all their infrastructure, maintenance and training matters," said a source.
The Army wants one heavy-duty attack squadron (10-12 helicopters) for each of its three "strike" formations - 1 Corps (Mathura), 2 Corps (Ambala) and 21 Corps ( Bhopal) — in keeping with their primary offensive role. Moreover, it has plans to induct another 114 'Rudra' light combat helicopters for the remaining 10 'pivot' corps.
In a letter that was issued on Thursday, the MoD has ruled that the military’s entire attack helicopter fleet will be owned, operated and maintained by the army. This includes the 22 Apache AH-64D helicopters that are being procured from US company, Boeing Defence, Space and Security (BDS); as also a new-generation fleet of combat helicopters that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is currently developing. That will include 179 Light Combat Helicopters (LCHs) and 76 Rudras, which are a weaponised version of HAL’s Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH).
The IAF’s existing fleet of rapidly fading Russian Mi-25/35s, for long the world’s most heavily armed attack helicopter, will continue to be operated by the air force until they are retired from service.
The most immediate effect of this decision will be that, instead of IAF pilots, Army Aviation Corps pilots will be going to the US for training on the Apache AH-64D.
The MoD has also accepted the army’s long-standing request for Mi-17 medium lift helicopters to be located in army camps in J&K, so that heliborne contingents can be launched into operations without delay. The army says that heliborne operations are invariably delayed because a cumbersome IAF hierarchy takes too long to sanction the use of its helicopters.
Air Force PRO contradicting the Chief of Army Staff.The ownership of the existing two Mi-35 attack chopper squadrons will not change and the Apache choppers, for which the negotiations are going on with the US, would also be inducted into the IAF only," IAF spokesperson Wg Cdr Gerard Galway said here.
"However, this decision should not been seen as if the air force is losing all control. Out of the 22 Apaches, a certain amount of choppers would remain with the air force. Also one should not think that the air force would become defunct after this decision. The air force would continue to do its work such as precision attacks, destruction of radar installations and also striking at terrorist camps. The army would only have a direct control over choppers during a ground operation".
"This should also not be seen as a shocking decision. In the past too the air force has handed over control of its aircrafts. They have handed over their reconnaissance aircrafts to the Indian Navy. The navy today is also getting the P8 I which again would be under their control. Also the IAF had handed over choppers such as the Chetak and the Cheetah to the army."
Non-sanitized airspace and even ground space would pose the same problem to an IAF-crewed attack chopper as it would to an IA-crewed attack chopper. If the IAF is unable to perform defense suppression of enemy anti-air assets on the ground and in the air it will be a problem as we found out in 65 when 4 IAF Vampires were lost in the opening rounds.I have a newbie question here to gurus - How the operations of these attack choppers by IA would be affected in non sanitized air space? If IAF need to sanitized air space, how these things are going to work given the inherent slowness in co-ordination among IA and IAF?
I wouldn't like that situation to arise at all. We need peace and prosperity and a Scheme of things where people find their voice in the system and aspire for better things in life. Punjab is a successful state by most of the indicators. It has always faced the brunt of invaders from West valiantly and fought in medieval rulers and british colonialism. And , even now, when war takes place it is the first to feel the impact. People deserve better. Instead of blood and mayhem May peace prevail.sarabpal.s wrote:
+1 if situation demand . Army had power and ultimate winner so carefull with emotion and religious place.
nakul wrote:I believe that both Army and Air Force should get to keep the helicopters. This way they don't need to call each other when required. The Army can use it for ground ops while the Air Force will use it for deep interdiction, operation with AWACS & perhaps SEAD. This way they can both operate smoothly without stepping on each others' toes.
The new attack helicopters should go to the IAF. IA might go for an order if they work well. Me thinks Apache was an H&D decision if only 22 is the final order. If not, they can be split between IA & IAF where IA can use it for ground ops & IAF when called upon for heavy air support. There are some capabilities that helicopters that planes dont. When called for CAS, IAF should be able to pick the right tool for the job without restricting themselves with fixed wing planes.
Is he lying?"We are going to contract for Apache and these will be paid for by the IAF, flown by the IAF and maintained by the IAF," Browne said.
Maybe, it is all posturing, wonder why ACM opened his mouth on this subject when he very well would have known the decision of GOI? IAF did not pay for Mi-25/35s, how come they paid for its replacements?nakul wrote:Is he lying?"We are going to contract for Apache and these will be paid for by the IAF, flown by the IAF and maintained by the IAF," Browne said.