Indian Military Aviation

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Feb 2010 08:52

I suspect only headlines today channel will show it.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Feb 2010 08:59

Singha wrote:I suspect only headlines today channel will show it.

Is this a message to the Pakis about surgical strikes, even in the night? ( Different matter that the netas will not have the b@lls to allow it)

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Feb 2010 12:44

sum wrote:
Singha wrote:I suspect only headlines today channel will show it.
Is this a message to the Pakis about surgical strikes, even in the night? ( Different matter that the netas will not have the b@lls to allow it)

The pakis have already got this particular message during Kargill.

b@lls and politicians don't belong in the same sentence.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Feb 2010 14:11

The trials to find the replacement for the Cheetah / Chetak are underway in Bhatinda.

Eurocopter, Kamov and others are all there with their chamkaoed aircraft hoping to break into the Indian market.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 03 Feb 2010 14:28

>>b@lls and politicians don't belong in the same sentence.

Unless it is ND Tiwary

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Feb 2010 14:45

abhischekcc wrote:>>b@lls and politicians don't belong in the same sentence.

Unless it is ND Tiwary

You called it right!

This guy certainly has a pair!!

The old undercarriage still extending at his advanced age and that too in the Governor's mansion no less.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Feb 2010 14:57

abhischekcc wrote:>>b@lls and politicians don't belong in the same sentence.

Unless it is ND Tiwary

Those are not balls, it is a small pouch with 2 v1agras in it.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Feb 2010 16:21

chetak wrote:The trials to find the replacement for the Cheetah / Chetak are underway in Bhatinda.

Eurocopter, Kamov and others are all there with their chamkaoed aircraft hoping to break into the Indian market.

Wasn't the LOH supposed to replace them?

anyways, its a given that Amir-khan maal will land if its a multi vendor thing.

Chanu · Post by **Chanu** » 03 Feb 2010 22:20

sum wrote:
chetak wrote:The trials to find the replacement for the Cheetah / Chetak are underway in Bhatinda.

Eurocopter, Kamov and others are all there with their chamkaoed aircraft hoping to break into the Indian market.
Wasn't the LOH supposed to replace them?

anyways, its a given that Amir-khan maal will land if its a multi vendor thing.

according to the news reports i read 50% forgin mall and 50% LOH will be replacing cheetah/chetak.this is due to hal praposed the loh after the requirement is laid.secondly due to the doubts about the timeline of LOH.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Feb 2010 22:29

sum wrote: Wasn't the LOH supposed to replace them?

anyways, its a given that Amir-khan maal will land if its a multi vendor thing.

My money are on the frenchies. The country and not the undies!

Edited to change the name quoted.

Pls excuse.

Chanu · Post by **Chanu** » 03 Feb 2010 23:07

chetak wrote:
Chanu wrote: Wasn't the LOH supposed to replace them?

anyways, its a given that Amir-khan maal will land if its a multi vendor thing.

My money are on the frenchies. The country and not the undies!

you quoted wrong name it is written by sum

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 04 Feb 2010 05:38

IAF Tender for Night Vision training systems
TENDER details on Pg 23 and 27

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Feb 2010 06:07

Craig Alpert wrote:IAF Tender for Night Vision training systems

Interesting:

For further Information Contact:
Name : JD Proc IPW
E-Mail : procair@indiatimes.com
Phone Office : 23010231-7275
Fax : 23017664

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 04 Feb 2010 17:53

IAF to get missile-armed Su-30 MKI fighters by '12

misleading head

bart · Post by **bart** » 04 Feb 2010 19:16

Marten wrote: Wow! Two Indiatimes IDs in that tender. Is that correct or is someone using a personal account on one of the most vulnerable servers in town? Their mail solution was adapted from a company called Sawaal. A few kids I know could walk into anyone's account (mine included). I'd like to believe they bought mail server space and managed accounts. Great catch, NRao-ji.

Its a new offer to Western Arms Dealers:
Buy Lifafa services from TOI and get e-mail address free.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 05 Feb 2010 05:36

Defence Ministry issues RFP for 75 basic trainer aircraft

................
The RFP has been issued after the IAF played hardball with the government after grounding of the 125-strong Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) designed and manufactured Hindustan Piston Trainer-32 (HPT-32) fleet, on which the initial training of flight cadets is conducted was grounded after one of these aircraft crashed killing two instructors during a flight from the Air Force Academy (AFA) at Dundigal.

The crash triggered major resentment amongst the instructors who refused to fly the ageing aircraft. As a make shift arrangement the initial training of pilots, since then, is being done on another HAL manufactured aircraft - Kirans. The HPT-32 fleet since then remains grounded and is expected to be phased out by 2013-14.

Even thought the RFP has been floated, top brass of the IAF told that the entire process will take at least a year if all goes as per plan, since the entire tender process will have to be carried out, which was a very cumbersome process involving decision makers who have no knowledge of equipment or the needs of the IAF. According to the RFP the manufacturer will have to deliver the first 12 aircraft within 24 months of the contract. The remaining trainers will follow in batches. The 75 aircraft are part of the government’s go-ahead to the IAF for the acquisition of 181 basic trainers.

The induction of new trainer aircrafts will enhance the training standards of the IAF pilots, which has come under severe criticism due to increasing pilot deaths in the past two decades, resulting due to a combination of ageing Soviet era fleet and poor training. The IAF also inducted BAE systems manufactured Hawk advanced jet trainers (AJTs) in 2008 to impart superior training to pilots-under-training.

The induction of the Hawk AJTs is significant because it fulfilled a long-standing demand of the IAF that will effectively bridge the gap between the slow jet trainer such as Kiran and the advanced fighter aircrafts in the Air Force.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 05 Feb 2010 10:36

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/02/f ... d-run.html

LCH Does its first ground- Run Today.

Today was a big day for the HAL. The indigenous Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) did its first five-minute ground run to test the engine and the systems today, before it can take off. It was a successful ground run. According to sources it will take off for its first flight after 15 days.

Chanu · Post by **Chanu** » 05 Feb 2010 11:45

Great news

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 05 Feb 2010 12:06

First ground run(reported) of the LCH..god bless..hope the bird takes to the sky soon. Any details about the ground run? Please post pics or links as soon as possible..

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 05 Feb 2010 12:37

arun wrote:X Posted.

Tuesday 2 February 2010

India to test-fly AWACS in 2012

Bangalore, Feb 2 (PTI)

The indigenous Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) System integrated onboard the Brazilian jet aircraft EMB145 as per IAF requirement would be flight tested in 2012, a key official involved in the project said.

The AEW&C system (also called AWACS - Airborne Warning and Control System) is being developed by the Bangalore-based Centre or Airborne Systems (CABS), a lab under the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the IAF.

Under a deal signed between India and Brazil in 2008, Embraer aircraft manufacturer would modify its EMB145 to carry Active Array Antenna Unit by India on the aircraft's fuselage. Three modified EMB-145 aircraft would be developed under the agreement.

"AEW&C's flying platform is the modified EMB145, which will take to skies later this year. It is scheduled to be delivered to us in Aug 2011," CABS Director S Christopher said here on Tuesday. ...............................

Christopher said: "...our mission systems will be ready by this year. It will be tested in this rig in 2011, followed by flight testing in 2012". ........................

PTI via Deccan Herald

I have a few questions about this, hope some seniors can help.
1.Can anyone please explain whether there should be a preference for India to use a particular Radar system or aircraft?
2.Why should the radar be carried on a platform like Embraer which has lower flight capabilities in terms of being able to stay airborne for a shorter period of time rather than a bigger aircraft like IL or even Boeing series which can stay in air( and therefore function) for a longer period of time. IL with a full load ( which AWAC system will not have) has projected range 3650 km VS 2800 km of Emb and up to 11000 in commercial boeing series.
3. Why does the radar has to be mounted "outside" the aircraft. I am sure IL 76's belly can easily accommodate hardware similar to the SAAB 200/3400 size. Wont such a system give better aeordynamics to the aircraft.
Thanks .

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 05 Feb 2010 20:18

String of military airstrips to strengthen Andaman’s defence

Port Blair: Andaman and Nicobar islands will get its air defence infrastructure bolstered with the tri-service military command here working on a project to strengthen a string of airstrips for operating both transport and fighter aircraft.

Navy Chief Nirmal Verma told reporters, during on a visit to the Milan 13-nation naval exercise that began today at the strategically important archipelago on India's east, thata couple of airstrips in Shipur and Campbell were being extended to accommodate large sized transport aircraft.

Currently, these airstrips, with a length of about 1,000 metres, handle only helicopters.

Moreover, the Andaman and Nicobar Command, set up in 2001 as a joint services formation, would also add to its number of the existing 15 ships stationed here in the near future.

"Shipur airfield is with a short airstrip of about 1,000 metres. We hope to increase it slightly. At the moment, only smaller aircraft are being operated from here. We will also provide night vision facility in the course of time," Verma said.

Naval officers pointed out that the plan was to have a "string of airfields" in the archipelago with the capacity to operate all types of aircraft including fighters such as the potent Sukhois.

The airstrips would also be able to handle large transport aircraft like IL-76 and AN-32s in all of these airfields for better coverage of the region, which is close to the Indian Ocean choke point, the Malacca Straits.

gogna · Post by **gogna** » 05 Feb 2010 21:10

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 05 Feb 2010 21:13

^^^ That's the wooden mock-up of LCH. It was posted here longtime abback (3-4 years). IIRC it is from Shook-law blog.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Feb 2010 21:23

Currently, these airstrips, with a length of about 1,000 metres, handle only helicopters.

Huh, hadn't a MKI( or group of MKIs) also done a landing and take off from A&N to showcase our capabilities with respect to A&N?

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 05 Feb 2010 21:39

gogna wrote:

Even though the main structures stream lining is good, under carriage looks very awkward.

Proportions some how don't look good. Hope the original one has a better looking under carriage.

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 05 Feb 2010 22:41

^^
could you please tell, which part of it you felt awkward ?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 05 Feb 2010 22:55

^^^Its probably because the undercarriage is breaking the smooth contour of the aircraft...

anyone know where the mock up is currently placed???

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Feb 2010 22:57

Venu wrote: Even though the main structures stream lining is good, under carriage looks very awkward.

Proportions some how don't look good. Hope the original one has a better looking under carriage.

yeah, I hope they hire a beautician to do the job and an image consultant to give it a 'makeover' !

^^^Its probably because the undercarriage is breaking the smooth contour of the aircraft...

the alternative is to land on its belly.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 05 Feb 2010 23:02

Rahul M wrote:
^^^Its probably because the undercarriage is breaking the smooth contour of the aircraft...
the alternative is to land on its belly.

No sir, the alternative is to use a retractable gear sytem deployed on the Naval Dhruv... or something similiar.. i assume it would actually lead to a better stealth performance too...

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Feb 2010 23:23

NO this is a very good solutions for an 'ATTACK' chopper , these things usually fly low and fast and in thick of the battle if they need to do a controlled crash landing then retractable gear cannot be deployed in a jiffy (jamming is another issue) I don't kow much about these things but from a first glance it seems the gear actually retracts a bit and rests along the sides of the fuselage once the chopper takes to air (I might be wrong here) , Havoc and Rooivalk have similar a rugged airframe and a fixedlanding gear layout . Also the major give away for a chopper in terms of stealth are its rotor blades landing gear RCS is negligible in comparasion and here again India has experience with RAM (DARIN upgrades) . Just check the contours and finish on this beauty a very contemporary and bold design .Kudos to everyone involved.

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 05 Feb 2010 23:35

This doesnt seem like an exact mock up. The ground clearance of the belly seems to be very low. By design the chopper has to have crash worthy landing gear so I guess that clearance would be increased.
Otherwise the non-retractable reverse tricycle seems to be the most popular design of undercarriages in the attack helicopters everywhere the major exception being the KA 50/52. Also to note that the AH1 cobra uses skids.

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 05 Feb 2010 23:53

Su-30 MKI to be armed with BrahMos missiles

India's fleet of Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighter jets could be armed with BrahMos missiles by 2012, the vice president of the Irkut
Corporation said at the Singapore Airshow 2010.

"The modernisation programme includes re-equipping of some 100 Su-30MKI fighters, which are currently in service with the Indian Air Force," Vladimir Sautov said Thursday.

Raman · Post by **Raman** » 05 Feb 2010 23:54

Retractable undercarriage has a large weight penalty. The reduction in drag only pays off (against the increased weight) at high speeds or sustained cruise --- neither of which apply to an attack helicopter's mission profile. Furthermore, the fixed undercarriage absorbs a significant amount of energy during a crash-landing scenario, which helps crew survivability.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Feb 2010 00:05

Bala Vignesh wrote:
the alternative is to land on its belly.
No sir, the alternative is to use a retractable gear sytem deployed on the Naval Dhruv... or something similiar.. i assume it would actually lead to a better stealth performance too...

the weight and internal space penalty would be too great. there's also the reason negi mentioned.
in fact, what % of modern attack helos have retractable landing gear ?
only the canceled commanche and the much larger and heavier ka-50 I think ?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Feb 2010 00:12

Raman wrote:Retractable undercarriage has a large weight penalty. The reduction in drag only pays off (against the increased weight) at high speeds or sustained cruise --- neither of which apply to an attack helicopter's mission profile. Furthermore, the fixed undercarriage absorbs a significant amount of energy during a crash-landing scenario, which helps crew survivability.

So does an retractable undercarriage when extended.

They would probably be designed for comparably similar G loading.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 06 Feb 2010 00:56

So does an retractable undercarriage when extended.

we assume that you mean during a crash.

IF so, then the pilots have to extend the undercarriage whenever they crash!!!!

However, there will be a major structural diff between a "fixed" vs. a "retractable". The prior will permit better absorption just because it is fixed (which retractable cannot - because of the hinging mechanism).

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 06 Feb 2010 11:59

OFF TOPIC

Yesterday i was watching Vijeta movie based on Indian Air force ( 71 war) in 9X, one interesting thing i saw was on a Mig-21 ,on the Nose Cone it was Printed "Cost 1.47 Crores" why where Prices mentioned on the aircrafts ,i never saw it in any other Pictures of any other aircrafts , any one have any idea on this matter ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Feb 2010 13:31

Our desperate search for trubo-prop trainers.Why do we always,as was the case with the AJT,IJT,etc.,etc.,resort to acute indecision and finally knee-jerk reaction and fire-fighting in the case of defence requirements?

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... how=sing10

Paul Jackson/Show News
India in Urgent Search for Turboprop Trainers

Singapore Air Show

World manufacturers of turboprop trainers are reported to have been invited to submit their bids before March 17 for supplying the Indian Air Force with a replacement for its current fleet of piston-powered HPT-32s. Requirements are for 75 primary/basic instructional aircraft, of which the first 12 are to be delivered within two years of contract signature, although the eventual need could be 181.

No mention is made of local manufacture under license. Indeed, the urgency is such that no local design solution would seem possible. The HPT-32 fleet was grounded last July after a series of engine-related accidents, forcing novice pilots to begin their courses on Kiran jets.

The Kiran is remembered for the Surya Kiran aerobatic team which displayed at the 1994 Singapore Air Show. However, the team is understood to have stood-down to provide more aircraft for training, although it will later equip with HJT-36s which were ordered last year.

In 2008, the Comptroller and Auditor General of India said the IAF is facing an acute shortage of efficient pilots after failing to impart quality training. It attributed the discontinuity in training to lack of adequate state-of-the-art training aircraft.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Feb 2010 20:48

Wah India. The basic trainer has turned out to be a fiasco.

Was IAF sleeping when A-50, Su-30, AJT, IFR, wiz bang was being inducted?

HAL had proposed a basic trainer long back, wish they could have gone ahead with developing it on their own funds.... but I would blame the IAF for this.

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 07 Feb 2010 00:43

Bala Vignesh wrote: anyone know where the mock up is currently placed???

both of them are kept behind the SKTTC building

. They may sell it to the raddiwala this year. So,please inform them if you are interested.

Natt wrote:This doesnt seem like an exact mock up.

this was built for static display @ AI 07, using specifications supplied by OEM

NRao wrote: However, there will be a major structural diff between a "fixed" vs. a "retractable". The prior will permit better absorption just because it is fixed (which retractable cannot - because of the hinging mechanism).

there is no relation b/w structural design & absorption in this case;and what makes you think that those hinges are similar to those of the bathroom door ?
FYKI, in the case of u/c ,fixed doesn't mean that it is fused onto the body and hinged doesn't imply a rolling joint.