Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Nov 2017 13:28

"...homed in on the target".Not a very jubilant way of putting it.One needs more info before breaking out the XXX.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Nov 2017 13:30

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 33s34 seconds ago

Good day today. The Nirbhay GLCM test went well. INS validated. Apparently traversed all designated waypoints.

sas · Post by **sas** » 07 Nov 2017 13:33

Tweet from Saurav Jha

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 2m2 minutes ago
Good day today. The Nirbhay GLCM test went well. INS validated. Apparently traversed all designated waypoints.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/927807803682463744

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 07 Nov 2017 13:43

Hearty congratulations to the whole team! Toiled under pressure and delivered. New turbojet even!

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 07 Nov 2017 13:43

Karthik S wrote:
shaun wrote:Test failed
Boss, please provide a link.

Of course I was in "diblu mode" .!!!!

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 07 Nov 2017 13:49

Reminds me of Manik Baasha

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Nov 2017 13:57

Noob Q:

Is the testing with the Turbojet a step backwards to get it working and the end goal was always a Turbofan Nirbhay? Are these plug and play without any structural modifications?

If not, the next set of tests with a Turbofan( Manik?) would be like a fresh start since a Turbofan and Turbojet Nirbhay are almost 2 different missiles?

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 07 Nov 2017 13:59

Indigenously designed ‘Nirbhay’ missile tested from Odisha

The state-of-the-art sleek cruise missile took off from a specially designed launcher from the launch complex-3 of the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur, near Balasore, at about 11.20 a.m., Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) sources said.

All initial critical operations of the trial such as blast of the sophisticated missile are successful as it moved up in its trajectory, a DRDO scientist said soon after the launch of the missile.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Nov 2017 14:35

sum wrote:Noob Q:

Is the testing with the Turbojet a step backwards to get it working and the end goal was always a Turbofan Nirbhay? Are these plug and play without any structural modifications?

If not, the next set of tests with a Turbofan( Manik?) would be like a fresh start since a Turbofan and Turbojet Nirbhay are almost 2 different missiles?

Current priority is to validate missile system for Control, Guidance, navigation and targeting. I don't think changing engine on CM is as complicated as changing engine on aircraft. They have already made one change. Now changing to Manik again won't be that different or difficult. Changing engine will not make them two different missiles altogether.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Nov 2017 14:55

India test fires homegrown cruise missile Nirbhay off Odisha coast - Hemant Kumar Rout, New Indian Express

India on Tuesday test-fired homegrown surface-to-surface subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay from a defence base off Odisha coast. This was the fifth test of the weapon system.

The nuclear-capable missile blasted off from a mobile launcher positioned in the launching complex-III of the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur-on-sea at about 11.25 am leaving behind a chain of thick smokes.

DRDO scientists and all technical staffs involved in the mission cheered up and celebrated as the missile went up vertically before taking a dive and travelling on the pre-designated trajectory.

The cruise missile, powered by a solid rocket motor booster developed by the Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) took off from a mobile launcher specifically designed for Nirbhay by the Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (VRDE), both being DRDO laboratories.

As it achieved designated altitude and velocity, the booster motor got separated, the turbofan engine automatically switched on taking over the further propulsion and the wings opened up by the commands generated by the onboard computer (OBC) stabilising the flight.

Guided by a highly advanced inertial navigation system indigenously developed by Research Centre Imarat (RCI), Nirbhay used turbojet engine for the first time. Earlier the weapon was tested with a turbofan engine.

Throughout its path, the missile was tracked by ground-based radars while its health parameters were monitored by indigenous telemetry stations. An aircraft also tracked the missile all along its flight.

Sources said the initial delay was due to the late arrival of chase aircraft. Once the aircraft was positioned, the launch took place. However, the results of the mission could not be immediately known as data captured during the firing were being analysed.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 07 Nov 2017 14:58

Hope they release the video from chase aircraft soon.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Nov 2017 15:12

However, the results of the mission could not be immediately known as data captured during the firing were being analysed.

Did it or did it not cover the full distance via the waypoints? I guess that can be a simple yes/no ( other secondary parameters like flight characterstics/engine performance/SW performance etc are of course subject to data examination)

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Nov 2017 15:13

JayS wrote:
sum wrote:Noob Q:

Is the testing with the Turbojet a step backwards to get it working and the end goal was always a Turbofan Nirbhay? Are these plug and play without any structural modifications?

If not, the next set of tests with a Turbofan( Manik?) would be like a fresh start since a Turbofan and Turbojet Nirbhay are almost 2 different missiles?
Current priority is to validate missile system for Control, Guidance, navigation and targeting. I don't think changing engine on CM is as complicated as changing engine on aircraft. They have already made one change. Now changing to Manik again won't be that different or difficult. Changing engine will not make them two different missiles altogether.

Thanks for that info, saar.

Didnt know that engines in CMs are almost plug and play types

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Nov 2017 15:24

I have never seen so many brfites so nervous before and during a missile test. It was almost like a cricket match and the suspense from that.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Nov 2017 15:34

Pratyush wrote:I have never seen so many brfites so nervous before and during a missile test. It was almost like a cricket match and the suspense from that.

These are far more important, Brahmos can never be fielded in numbers, whereas this can.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 07 Nov 2017 15:49

Nirbhay has hit its target after passing all way points as per some news reports.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 07 Nov 2017 15:52

Nirbhay #missile test successful. It travelled along predesignated flight path and homed in on the target. @DRDO_India @NewIndianXpress

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Nov 2017 15:56

AIR posted a tweet that it was a successful test

So its officially confirmed

Congrats to all involved for pulling it back from the brink

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Nov 2017 15:57

Pratyush wrote:I have never seen so many brfites so nervous before and during a missile test. It was almost like a cricket match and the suspense from that.

Hope they never do this pre launch buildup for such tests (esp if they last hours)as tension is too much to handle

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 07 Nov 2017 16:13

so whats the roadmap ahead of this successful test??

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 07 Nov 2017 16:20

few more tests analyzing past trouble areas and switching to turbofan engine.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2017 16:27

shiv wrote:Instead of the usual predictions I see on BRF about what will happen in 20 or 50 years, let me predict what will happen in next day of two and bet on it..

I bet will Nirbhay will work this time...

Hmmmm whatcha say folks..?

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Nov 2017 16:30

vina wrote:
JTull wrote:@Indranil, of course it will be a different motor. Brahmos NG will likely be 50cm dia while Astra is 17.8cm dia.

Personally I'm not aware of any successful ramjet application by DRDO yet. All I'm saying is if it participates in all new engine being developed for Brahmos NG then it could help other programs. After Meteor, even LREW is moving to ramjet. So logical to start thinking of future Astra development.
Heard of Akash ?

Apologies for oversight. Still begs the question, why don't we have a desi engine for Brahmos-NG? What's the technological leap needed here that we have to go to Russians?
Are we planning Astra with ramjet?

Congrats to ADE for successful test of Nirbhay! Kudos on substituting the power unit and getting all sub-systems working this time. Hope to see a repeat test soon.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Nov 2017 16:42

JTull wrote:
vina wrote: Heard of Akash ?
Apologies for oversight. Still begs the question, why don't we have a desi engine for Brahmos-NG? What's the technological leap needed here that we have to go to Russians?
Are we planning Astra with ramjet?

Congrats to ADE for successful test of Nirbhay! Kudos on substituting the power unit and getting all sub-systems working this time. Hope to see a repeat test soon.

We have SFDR as an independent project. It will be our Meteor class BVR which will surpass Astra MK2 capabilities. Solid Fuel Ducted rocket is superior, compact and more complicated tech than liquid fuel ramjet. I think Astra Mk2 will have dual pulse motor. We now have tech from LRSAM as well. I am not aware if Astra mk1 already has latest and greatest we have or MK2 will be an improvement over Mk1 in this respect. Akash already has solid ramjet motor, but its bulky.

I feel one of the reason for not having desi engine for Brahmos could be the contractual restrictions we have through the JV. I have read somewhere that we cannot take any unilateral decision on Brahmos without Russian consent.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2017 16:48

Turbojet/turbofan is no big deal in this case. Use what works. If it flies 1000 km and hits the target the people there will never guess whether it was turbojet or turbofan that burned their musharrafs.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Nov 2017 16:50

How Important is Turbo fan engine to Nirbhay, does it achieve
1) greater range through better fuel efficiency also allowing greater loiter time
2) greater speed so making the missile less vulnerable
3) lesser heat signature and also one can keep the engine more stealthy rather than having radiating radar blades exposed?
4) Does it make the Missile lighter and more easier to handle?

What are the advantages of a Turbofan over the Turbojet engine?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2017 16:51

SSridhar wrote: The nuclear-capable missile

"Nuclear capable missile". Warhead weight 200 KG

Anyone see some information there? Ramana?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2017 16:56

Aditya_V wrote:How Important is Turbo fan engine to Nirbhay, does it achieve
1) greater range through better fuel efficiency also allowing greater loiter time
2) greater speed so making the missile less vulnerable
3) lesser heat signature and also one can keep the engine more stealthy rather than having radiating radar blades exposed?
4) Does it make the Missile lighter and more easier to handle?

What are the advantages of a Turbofan over the Turbojet engine?

More fuel efficient - yes
Greater speed. Doubt it. Not unless the altitude is raised.
Lighter possibly but fan diameter is higher in turbofan making it more bulky.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Nov 2017 16:59

shiv wrote:
shiv wrote:Instead of the usual predictions I see on BRF about what will happen in 20 or 50 years, let me predict what will happen in next day of two and bet on it..

I bet will Nirbhay will work this time...
Hmmmm whatcha say folks..?

Shiv. Ek aur ho jay..? Looks like more test/s planned.

ANI tweet says:

Subsonic CM Nirbhay test fired from Chandipur ITR. This type of test fire will continue for 3days
Final test to take place on 9th Nov.

PS: DDR confirms. Jingo khush hua...

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Nov 2017 17:14

Aditya_V wrote:How Important is Turbo fan engine to Nirbhay, does it achieve
1) greater range through better fuel efficiency also allowing greater loiter time
2) greater speed so making the missile less vulnerable
3) lesser heat signature and also one can keep the engine more stealthy rather than having radiating radar blades exposed?
4) Does it make the Missile lighter and more easier to handle?

What are the advantages of a Turbofan over the Turbojet engine?

1. Yes. But may not be a large difference. The By-pass ratio of such small TF would be quite small as such.
2. Not likely.
3. May be a marginal improvement I would say, because colder stream from fan blanketing hot jet stream. Don't expect masking of turbine blades.
4. I don't think so. I doubt TJ >> TF has much impact on this at all.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 07 Nov 2017 17:18

The real reason for Lakshya programme was always to develop enabling technologies for cruise missile. But HAL could not make PTAE7 without foreign components. Mainly French. Hence engine could not be used in cruise missile due to MTCR. Hence either all components of turbojet engine has been indigenised or Rafale effect. Or combination thereof.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 07 Nov 2017 17:33

https://twitter.com/band318/status/927868724249616384
Atleast 1 visual difference between today"s test and specimen from 1st test - the transition between booster & aft-body of missile sealed.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Nov 2017 17:41

JayS wrote: Shiv. Ek aur ho jay..? Looks like more test/s planned. ANI tweet says:

Subsonic CM Nirbhay test fired from Chandipur ITR. This type of test fire will continue for 3days
Final test to take place on 9th Nov.

The damn missile works. Just keep at it and screw the fan/jet hair splitting. Tomorrow if we fly a UAV with jet and not fan who cares? We are strong in flagellating ourselves for perceived weaknesses for no reason.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Nov 2017 17:41

From here:
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.se/2014 ... tegic.html

Saturday, October 18, 2014
2nd Test-Flight Of Nirbhay Strategic Cruise Missile A Total Success

The nuclear-capable LACM yesterday had a flight-time lasting 80 minutes and cruised over a distance of 1,157km at a speed of Mach 0.7. Eight more test-flights now remain to be conducted prior to its entry-into-service with India’s Strategic Forces Command in ground-launched, submarine-launched and air-launched versions.

If this is correct info, given that two fully successful tests have happened so far, we should see 7-8 more tests before Entry into Service.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Nov 2017 17:43

shiv wrote:
JayS wrote: Shiv. Ek aur ho jay..? Looks like more test/s planned. ANI tweet says:

The damn missile works. Just keep at it and screw the fan/jet hair splitting. Tomorrow if we fly a UAV with jet and not fan who cares? We are strong in flagellating ourselves for perceived weaknesses for no reason.

Absolutely. Just focus on robustness and affordability of the system, everything else is secondary.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 07 Nov 2017 17:49

From LF:

Distance 647 km, time 50 mins. Didn't test for max range in this test.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 07 Nov 2017 17:52

Delhi Defence Review‏ @delhidefence
NEWS: More Nirbhay tests are scheduled over the next couple of days as this @DRDO_India program makes up for lost time.

Wow, good news, so DRDO is fairly confident about all other systems.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 07 Nov 2017 18:00

Video of today's test

https://www.facebook.com/DPIDRDO/videos ... 005142967/

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 07 Nov 2017 18:02

kya suspense hai? is it a grand success? should i open my wine bottle or wait?

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 07 Nov 2017 18:06

Yes you can, it is verified by multiple reliable sources including HK Rout, kudos to DRDO. Jingo khush Hua, finally we have our own equivalent of Kalibr.

And icing is it uses desi engine i.e all subsystems complete desi. This is a red letter day.