Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Apr 2011 21:55

India opposes Pakistan over EU trade concessions

EU's trade body supports fight against free access to Pakistan textiles

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2011 22:08

CRamS wrote:Many in the India-US relations thread suggested that ambassador Sen is an uber patriot. But I am waiting for an uber patriot of a different kind. Its now established in the open after years of obfuscation that TSP's murder of Indians is official state policy to secure its interests in Kashmir and Afganisthan. Its now justified by the likes of Riedel and many others that India is on its way to super powerdom bla bla and hence must give whatever Paki murderers want.

GoI knows TSP is behind attacks. But in their PoV why waste resources that we can use to grow our economy - lets spend our money on education, health, roads and get our economy moving. TSP will just die off trying to compete with us - This is our strategic calculation. Problem is TSP (and its backers) are getting frustrated that India isn't getting drawn into a conflict. What we should argue for is an effective covert force to strike terror planners. But even here I think the strategists don't want to give an excuse for Pak. Think long term.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Apr 2011 22:09

If true then marks the first such attempt by India to talk directly with the Pak military..

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Manmohan- ... 88850.aspx

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Apr 2011 22:11

somnath wrote:If true then marks the first such attempt by India to talk directly with the Pak military..

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Manmohan- ... 88850.aspx

No, if true, then its the first such attempt by India to surreptitously surrender to TSPA in the hope of buying "piss" with some H&D intact. Impending super power onlee.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 23 Apr 2011 22:13

SureshP wrote:Meanwhile the battle royale between Ejaz Haider , Khakis velvet glove, and Farhat Taj, the eminent truth teller, continues.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_4

What is totally surprising is that the Daily Times allows Farhat room to take on both the Khakis and Ejaz.

There's no daylight between the TSPA and Ejaz Haider.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Apr 2011 22:17

shyamd:

I am not talking about tackling TSP, thats a different matter. Its time for someone in New Delhi whose views Washington/London will take notice of, that all this talk about US supporting TSP for taking on Jihadis is only side show, the real reason is India containment. That line of thinking must be mainstream and not confined to BR or dismissed as a conspiracy.

Ronen Sen, for his coming out on behalf of US on nuke liability bill, will earn him huge brownie points among US elites. He may even get a visiting professorship at John Hopkin's school of international affairs, or some other plush appointment in US. Good for him and his family. But similiarly, if he exposes US bad faith in supporting the TSP terrorist regime arrayed against India, it sure will sure earn him kudos from his countrmen. Thats what I am suggesting.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Apr 2011 22:27

shyamd wrote: GoI knows TSP is behind attacks. But in their PoV why waste resources that we can use to grow our economy - lets spend our money on education, health, roads and get our economy moving. TSP will just die off trying to compete with us - This is our strategic calculation. Problem is TSP (and its backers) are getting frustrated that India isn't getting drawn into a conflict. What we should argue for is an effective covert force to strike terror planners. But even here I think the strategists don't want to give an excuse for Pak. Think long term.

And what is this magical point when GoI will decide it has grown enough and can now give a jhappad to Pak? Basically, GoI is telling its citizens that grin and bear it for next 10-15 years since we need to grow and danger to your life from Pakis is just a distraction which must be glossed over?

If strategic covert options are not being employed to avoid giving Pak a excuse, shouldn't we be disbanding offensive corps of the IA and Su-30 squadrons, vacating J&K, vacating Afghanistan, giving all water from all rivers to Pak etc since they might give Pak a excuse?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Apr 2011 22:55

Brad Goodman wrote:ju kaffirs ISI is watching your acts

ISI takes notice of Indian aggression

The might of Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency, ISI can be gauged from the fact that it has taken a serious notice of the civilian government’s ‘failure’ in raising objections over alleged ‘Indian aggression’ on Pakistan’s water rights and securing international carbon credits on hydropower projects disputed by Islamabad.

The main concern is how could India secure the credits disregarding Pakistan’s objections over the projects at the Permanent Indus Water Commission.
some politicians needs to sent to meet Salman Tasser for this act

They actually ransacked the water and power ministry and went off with all the files

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2011 23:01

sum wrote: And what is this magical point when GoI will decide it has grown enough and can now give a jhappad to Pak? Basically, GoI is telling its citizens that grin and bear it for next 10-15 years since we need to grow and danger to your life from Pakis is just a distraction which must be glossed over?

Basically, yes. They'd rather have India which is strong militarily, political and economically stronger in the long run. We are expected to grit our teeth and carry on.

Pak won't be able to do anything after a certain point and will be forced to fall in line without us having to get drawn into a long drawn conflict. I think the US wants us to get stuck in TSP.

Don't worry US has its own plans for Pak anyway. So not to worry. why do you want to unite a country that is fighting itself anyway.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Apr 2011 23:02

anupmisra wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote:such a generous and benovalent gesture from martial race.‘Pakistan players willing to play World Series in India’ now this will end India's isolation in world of sports
Don't kid yourself. There will be a day when PCB will demand its share of $$ from BCCI earnings through IPL because so many pakis watch the game.

Pakis were given part of stadium collections and hosting fees for World Cup cricket matches *not* played in Pakistan, to compensate them for "losses" due to not holding matches there. Reminds me of quote form Catch-22

"His specialty was alfalfa, and he made a good thing out of not growing any. The government paid him well for every bushel of alfalfa he did not grow. The more alfalfa he did not grow, the more money the government gave him, and he spent every penny he didn't earn on new land to increase the amount of alfalfa he did not produce."

satya · Post by **satya** » 23 Apr 2011 23:02

A few perceptions :

Till date TSP establishment has shown its two legs . First leg was till BRIC word came up was TSPA almost ready to have buffet in New Delhi so TSP abduls ate grass willingly for they got some real wet dreams. Enter the word BRIC , TSPA changed track and showed its second leg , give us some more & we give u the penultimate security against hindu bania-brahmin duo else here they come .TSPian Abduls agreed but now they dont have anymore wet dreams instead its wetting their bed in sheer nightmare & buffet in dilli looked like a dream in times of Prophet Saab . Result: TSPian abduls getting armed and training in their home ground for penultimate defense against evil Hindu Bania-Brahmin duo ek se do bhale fauj to hei hi per hamein bhi to kuch karna chahiye so practise shooting . But then doing practise and scratching their unmentionable & invisible body parts they ask here we r eating grass & enemy now breezing ahead something fishy and wht they come up to ? TSPA still asking them to continue on grass diet but no more buffet in dilli but mere grass or as of today sand tht too not guranteed . its blasphemy so

So first it was offense now its all defense wht's next i dont know but to me it sums up the journey of neighbor in west .

So every now & then we see a new anti- CSD missile tht will kick the hell out of IA they have nothing why for CSD is a doctrine tht gives India the surprise element to attack at its place & time of choice and CSD is based on smaller than brigade formation (just a hunch going by limited acquisitions by desh's fauj n something something

) .So no wonder TSPA with tactical brilliance written everywhere on its GHQ has no answer & we the evil neighbours keep hearing an updated version of their anti-virus/anti-CSD painted thingies tht once a while increases the sale of Eno in desh & maybe plain soda in videsh

. Tht leave out the part of wresting the initiative back from India so we hear a buffalo not giving milk in Pakjab hmmm is tht a gud way to wrest the initiative hmm noo hey how bout tht place where we get out sand oh yea some river system yes the water treaty let's make war on tht this we will sure get the intiative back but alas meek spineless MMSjee readily agrees to re negotiate and re write the treaty (ab tsp abduls kaise laden meek meek singhjee se he says let's talk and say yes in talks let's sign jaise hi sign karna hota hei jernail saab alvida kah dete hein ya fir koi kala kot murdabad ke naare lagata hei apart from RSS controlled IA puts its foot down suddenly out of nowhere on agreement on siachen just when MMS bout to sign unkil bhi kuch nahin kar paate , Indians cant think tht much to plan it so rite they dont know wht chai biscuit really means rite for we dont have all those fanci name wale think tanks tht use fanci math wale software ki x main y times kiya to z times wet dreams niklega indians to kisi dhoti wale panditjee /one man rand corp. se poochete hein jo kahata hei baat karo time sahi hei aur time sahi hota jata hei but then this is not rite for digestive system of desh bandhus so again MMSjee and others spineless yes tht's fine for digestion ?) so back to buffalo not giving milk or daughter not marrying wife's niece cuz he doesn't luk like hrithik hmmm let's Maulvi Saab he will get us the answer . And it goes on

Again shama karen meri moti budhi ko per to me this in nutshell wht i understand yes i missed unkil aunty n their ristedaars but then in my thali i count only dal or sabji rest hei to theek nahin to no problem for dal ya sabji is main .

Sorry for rant or something something carry on .

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 23 Apr 2011 23:02

shiv wrote:
A failed or jihadist Pakistan means the hope of a bright,
shining India as one of the great countries of the 21st century will never
happen. You cannot become the most successful country in the world if
your neighbor next door is sick with paralyzing political problems, with
terrorism, and is a patron state of terror against you.
Why? We have had a sick Jihadist Pakistan next door since 1947. We would probably not have armed ourselves so heavily but would nevertheless have come up if it wasn't for the US encouraging Pakistan with a wink and a nudge. What's with all the pretence now?

Big big pigshit. How about South Korea? How come it prospered when having NoKo in neighbor? Only because there US did not play a double game with both the countries. There it is a clear distinction between an ally and an enemy, isn't it? Why Bruce Riedel does not apply the same pakistan logic over there? Lets see how much US wants to help NoKo with all the billion $ aid and F16s and what not. The problem is not only these US experts but many in India also think the same! God knows by which example they apply this logic to india and pak. The problem these so called expert have is self authored 'suspension of disbelief'.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Apr 2011 23:03

Hit submit on my post before I could paste this:

http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/16/intellig ... tries.html

Intelligence agencies seized on Friday the record of at least two federal ministries to investigate an alleged institutional lapse in raising objections over Indian aggression on the country’s water rights and securing international carbon credits on hydropower projects disputed by Pakistan.

According to sources, the agencies came into action after receiving reports that the ministries of water and power and environment had absolved themselves of negligence in the matter. They said arrests of some officials could not be ruled out.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Apr 2011 23:07

shyamd wrote:
CRamS wrote:Many in the India-US relations thread suggested that ambassador Sen is an uber patriot. But I am waiting for an uber patriot of a different kind. Its now established in the open after years of obfuscation that TSP's murder of Indians is official state policy to secure its interests in Kashmir and Afganisthan. Its now justified by the likes of Riedel and many others that India is on its way to super powerdom bla bla and hence must give whatever Paki murderers want.
GoI knows TSP is behind attacks. But in their PoV why waste resources that we can use to grow our economy - lets spend our money on education, health, roads and get our economy moving. TSP will just die off trying to compete with us - This is our strategic calculation. Problem is TSP (and its backers) are getting frustrated that India isn't getting drawn into a conflict. What we should argue for is an effective covert force to strike terror planners. But even here I think the strategists don't want to give an excuse for Pak. Think long term.

Shyamd - Why will TSP die off trying to compete with us. In any case it is the 3.5 friends who are keeping it alive and they will keep it alive even after 20-25 years. It is not as if TSP is paying for stuff that it gets form USA/China.
Anyways if for GoI, fighting a war to defend its citizen from murderous, bigoted neighbor is wasting resources, then God save us.

In the long term, we all anyways will be dead, The only differentiator being , some with 72 houris, some without them.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2011 23:08

CRamS wrote:shyamd:

I am not talking about tackling TSP, thats a different matter. Its time for someone in New Delhi whose views Washington/London will take notice of, that all this talk about US supporting TSP for taking on Jihadis is only side show, the real reason is India containment. That line of thinking must be mainstream and not confined to BR or dismissed as a conspiracy.

So, what do you hope to achieve when you say that to Washington/London? Lets say Washington drops TSP, do you think things will change in Slumabad? TSP is changing alliances to PRC. KSA & PRC will continue to fund TSP. But US has its own plans for TSP. Wait and watch. We'll only use our levers when the time is right. But after a point TSP will have to stop as its activities will have no effect.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Apr 2011 23:11

abhijitm wrote:Big big pigshit. How about South Korea? How come it prospered when having NoKo in neighbor? Only because there US did not play a double game with both the countries. There it is a clear distinction between an ally and an enemy, isn't it? Why Bruce Riedel does not apply the same pakistan logic over there? Lets see how much US wants to help NoKo with all the billion $ aid and F16s and what not. The problem is not only these US experts but many in India also think the same! God knows by which example they apply this logic to india and pak. The problem these so called expert have is self authored 'suspension of disbelief'.

Well articulated. And its just you & me on BR that should be pointing this out, but from the highest levels of Indian govt in as diplomatic a language as is possible. Its should be part of mainstream discourse.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2011 23:12

VikasRaina wrote: Shyamd - Why will TSP die off trying to compete with us. In any case it is the 3.5 friends who are keeping it alive and they will keep it alive even after 20-25 years. It is not as if TSP is paying for stuff that it gets form USA/China.

They will die off eventually. They are switching to a PRC alliance. One of those friends will split TSP when the time is right. That friend is busy doing its work.

Anyways if for GoI, fighting a war to defend its citizen from murderous, bigoted neighbor is wasting resources, then God save us.

Do the math. See if its worth it or not. Tell us on the board too.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Apr 2011 23:16

Fact remains that before BRF brought it up, Even I thought of US as a distant yet benovalent neighbor who was helping Pak for its bigger battles against communism and later Islamic Jehad and it had nothing against India. Took me time to figure out (& all thanks to BRF) that US was actually arming TSP which was resulting in murder of so many Indian citizens.

A failed or jihadist Pakistan means the hope of a bright, shining India as one of the great countries of the 21st century will never happen.

This is baloney. How come USA is prospering despite having Cuba as one of its neighbor ? After all as per GoTUS, communism was as bad if not worse than Jihadist ideology. Spew crap constantly and people start believing in it.

India becoming a great and rich country would certainly have nothing to do with TSP. We will grow rich before we grow old. We have done it in the past and we will do it in the future.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Apr 2011 23:21

shyamd wrote:
Anyways if for GoI, fighting a war to defend its citizen from murderous, bigoted neighbor is wasting resources, then God save us.
Do the math. See if its worth it or not. Tell us on the board too.

How do you determine worth ? Was it worth anything to fight in 1971 or 1965 or 1947 ?
If we who make up this nation are not worth it, then what is ? Why did GoI land up forces on Border during Ops Parakarm?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2011 23:42

I don't have all the answers as I am still learning more about the GoI position myself. 2002 - things were different. After Iraq and Afg invasion things changed a lot - economically and otherwise.

But I do encourage you to do the maths. What are the objectives of the operation, costs, aftermath etc.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 23 Apr 2011 23:51

so ok, India wants to avoid conflict with TSP and focus on its economy. As the economy grows, there will be a realization that any conflict with pakistan will slow the economy and so, the surrender continues. Look at what happened during Op Parakram when the US issued travel advisories, and IT industry leaders started warning govt to de-escalate. When economy grows further, not just the IT industry, but all industry leaders will start advising the govt to make peace with pakistan at any cost.

At some point, one has to calculate the risks and make a move. If the NDA govt couldn't do it earlier, and UPA govt can't do it now ( with the UPA govt going even further to give away entire valley to TSP under "making borders irrelevant" theme), does anyone really think once the Indian economy has grown enough, it will take on TSP?

The only thing some here are hoping is that TSP will collapse like erstwhile USSR did, and our problems will go away. Unfortunately, TSP has been kept alive all these years through its 3.5 friends in a state where they are not stabilizing neither collapsing, but swinging between the two while enriching the elite. If TSP continues in this state, they will reach a time when they will have nothing to lose and India everything to lose, and TSP will win by blackmail what they couldn't get through wars or talks.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Apr 2011 00:03

amdavadi wrote:creating pakiland was conspiracy by yindu bania..

Naat onlee creating but also causing constipacy . Imagine the dichotomy of being famous for "Musharraf" living in "Pakistan"(a.k.a Toilet of the East) and falling victim of Yindoo caused "constipacy. Its like Mujahid having young Khsubu begum waiting in harem forced to stare at Madam Mazari 's photu on the door killing excitement.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 24 Apr 2011 00:19

VikasRaina wrote: How do you determine worth ? Was it worth anything to fight in 1971 or 1965 or 1947 ?
If we who make up this nation are not worth it, then what is ? Why did GoI land up forces on Border during Ops Parakarm?

The problem right now we have is not only economic reason but also an under-equipped military. The amount of money we are spending on defense is a backlog of 90s, and there too the process is slow. So the hope is in next 10 years not only we to have a huge economic gap but to have modernized navy, army and air force. I seriously don't know whether it's worth waiting for, may be we are miscalculating, but still looking at the signs the way we are progressing I want to give a try.

Meanwhile lets get Chabahar port working. Can't get a news on its progress.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 24 Apr 2011 00:41

putnanja wrote:does anyone really think once the Indian economy has grown enough, it will take on TSP?

We can engage in cold war more effectively and when the time comes strike where it hurts. A military powerful nuclear USSR couldn't stop its disintegration. And that is where it is important to block pakistan on economic fronts.

A poor, fanatic, jihadist pakistan is in India's interest and we should concentrate on that rather engaging ourselves in a war where at the end everything will be back to square one. Play economic war instead. Just by maneuvering entire military close to the border and holding the line for a year can cost a fortune.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 24 Apr 2011 00:52

abhijitm wrote: The problem right now we have is not only economic reason but also an under-equipped military. The amount of money we are spending on defense is a backlog of 90s, and there too the process is slow. So the hope is in next 10 years not only we to have a huge economic gap but to have modernized navy, army and air force. I seriously don't know whether it's worth waiting for, may be we are miscalculating, but still looking at the signs the way we are progressing I want to give a try.

Meanwhile lets get Chabahar port working. Can't get a news on its progress.

You cannot fight and win a war with imported weapons. India needs to work to indegenise its weapons as much as it can least for small and medium items. 100 odd MRCA few Hercules here and there are not enough. Plus these make you depend on external parties for spares. I think we are least 15 years away from a point where Tata, Mahindra and L&T can take up some level of defence production. If I were in IA I would not like to fight with sarkari INSAS made by Ordnance Factories with shoddy quality.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 24 Apr 2011 00:53

India still needs to exploit the Baluchistan, Pashtunistan, Baltitstan etc. issues to keep the Pakis busy in killing each other. Any incidence of terrorism on India should be responded by covert actions inflicting bigger pain on them. Eliminating the state and "non-state" actors should be part of this covert action.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Apr 2011 01:22

Brad Goodman wrote:
You cannot fight and win a war with imported weapons. India needs to work to indegenise its weapons as much as it can least for small and medium items. 100 odd MRCA few Hercules here and there are not enough. Plus these make you depend on external parties for spares. I think we are least 15 years away from a point where Tata, Mahindra and L&T can take up some level of defence production. If I were in IA I would not like to fight with sarkari INSAS made by Ordnance Factories with shoddy quality.

It is always hilarious when weapons start being discussed in the Strat-e-gee forum.

The "sarkari" INSAS has served the IA quite well all these years including in the Kargil war. Brig. Ray, who has actually used the INSAS in combat, had vehemently defended that weapon when he used to post here.

negi · Post by **negi** » 24 Apr 2011 01:34

'PM Manmohan Singh opened secret talks with Kayani 10 months ago'

LONDON: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had initiated secret talks with Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Kayani 10 months ago through an unofficial envoy that helped prepare the ground for the cricket diplomacy at Mohali, according to a report in a leading British newspaper.

"The Times" of London on Saturday reported the back-channel exercise was intended to ensure the powerful Pakistani army's backing for the peace process and led to hope in Western capitals about India and Pakistan putting their bilateral process on track. "Manmohan Singh appointed an unofficial envoy to make contact with General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani," the newspaper stated.

I won't be surprised if MMS wanted to make peace on 27/11 itself.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 24 Apr 2011 01:49

shyamd wrote: Basically, yes. They'd rather have India which is strong militarily, political and economically stronger in the long run. We are expected to grit our teeth and carry on.

Pak won't be able to do anything after a certain point and will be forced to fall in line without us having to get drawn into a long drawn conflict. I think the US wants us to get stuck in TSP.

Don't worry US has its own plans for Pak anyway. So not to worry. why do you want to unite a country that is fighting itself anyway.

Bhaiyya ji, this post belongs to the BENIS thread. You want a militarily strong India? And how will we become militarily strong? By letting Pakipigs kill our officers, soldiers, innocent men, women & children and doing jackshit about it. Am I the only one or does it look like a joke to everybody else too?

After 1971 also I am sure people would have said similar things, "Ab to adha kar diya, ab kya ukhaad lenge". They did not fall in line then, what makes you think they will fall in line now when they are more desperate & destitute than ever before?

And I am supposed to sleep tight because the grand chacha Khan has plans for Pak? What are those plans, bliss to reveal hain jee? Arming them with more F-16s? More naval ships? AMRAAMs? Harpoons? Turning a blind eye to their nuclear proliferation?

A country that fiddles its thumbs while its citizens are being killed on its own soil cannot, will not ever become a military superpower. The world fears China because their leaders drop hints of irrationality, talking of absorbing 500m casualties and what not. What do SDREs do? Piss & Paki-Yindoo bhai bhai onlee. Military power indeed.

What happens when we become a $10 trillion economy? Sri Ram comes down from heaven & hands us the Brahmastra? What do you do with 300 million abduls on our western border? What does the new militarily strong, economic superpower, India on steroids do? What makes you think that US or China would have broken up Pakistan by then? Why would China let go of such a successful investment? Why would US let Pakistan walk into China's harem just like that? Everybody who has a case of diarrhea watching India grow & prosper will want Pakistan to be alive & kicking India in the nuts, then why would anyone prescribe inaction as the best action for India?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 24 Apr 2011 02:25

Terrorism emanating from Pakistan and Pakistan's nuclear weapons are ba$tard children of US foreign policy.

Anyone who suggests that US has some "good intentions" for the region, will be made to write the above imposition 1000 times.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 24 Apr 2011 02:58

U.S. departs Pakistan base

A senior Pakistani intelligence official told CNN Friday that U.S. military personnel have left a southern base said to be a key hub for American drone operations in the country's northwestern tribal areas.

While the first official was able to confirm that American personnel were no longer operating out of the base, he could not say whether they had left voluntarily or at the request of the Pakistani government.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Apr 2011 03:35

negi wrote:'PM Manmohan Singh opened secret talks with Kayani 10 months ago'

I won't be surprised if MMS wanted to make peace on 27/11 itself.

..

Negi:

http://archives.dawn.com/archives/35005

January 13, 2009
ISLAMABAD Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh has sent a message of good wishes to President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani for the New Year.`With all good wishes for the new year,` Prime Minister Singh said in his greetings to President Zardari.

The card carries the picture of a white dove with flowers in its beak and has been signed by Prime Minister Singh and his wife Gursharan Kaur.
...........

He said a white dove on the card indicated that Dr Singh desired good relations between the two countries and peace in the region

As versus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks

This man is the leader of the Indian nation which got attacked in 2008.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 24 Apr 2011 06:21

rape is a weapon of the powerful in pakistan

Those working in rape crisis centres in Pakistan will tell you that they have deep backlogs of women raped by their own fathers, step fathers, school teachers, brothers-in-law, fathers-in-law and uncles, who don’t get justice. Then there are the independent self-reliant women who are raped but can’t even get a serious hearing.

Remember Veena Hayat? She was a friend of Benazir Bhutto and was allegedly gang raped by five men at the orders of the son-in-law of then president of Pakistan, the late Ghulam Ishaq Khan.

Dr Shazia Khalid, who was raped by an army captain in her room at the Sui Gas Plant in Baluchistan on January 3, 2005. She was kept drugged for two days so that all necessary evidence could be destroyed........a case that led to an uprising by the Bugti tribe, followed by the disruption of gas to most parts of the country for weeks.

The then President, General Musharraf was quick to come to the army’s rescue and declared the accused, one Captain Hammad, not guilty. And that was that. Shazia Khalid was wrapped up in an alleged deal with the government and flown to London. Asylum was the price paid for her silence. And her rapist remained free. Enlightened moderation.

Mai’s tragedy unfolded after her 12-year-old brother was arrested by police on charges of adultery leveled against him by members belonging to the village’s influential Mastoi clan. Interestingly, the police arrested the 12-year-old on a charge they had no witness or evidence for, however, the fact that that the boy’s assertion that he had been sodomised was not even worth carrying out a medical examination.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Apr 2011 06:27

Rudradev wrote:A little snapshot I made of the GOAT on April 22, 2011.

Thanks for the image link. Useful and lucid.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Apr 2011 06:59

VikasRaina wrote: Anyways if for GoI, fighting a war to defend its citizen from murderous, bigoted neighbor is wasting resources, then God save us.

+1.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Apr 2011 07:16

shiv wrote:List of bullshit from the Bruce Riedel pdf
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/ ... mbrace.pdf

And just three or four years ago, the Pakistani people, in a
generally peaceful way, overthrew a dictator and brought in democratic
elections, probably the most democratic in Pakistani history. I didn’t say
they were free and fair. Pakistan’s probably never had a free and fair
election. But it got a lot closer in 2008 than it ever has before. So let’s not
underestimate the Pakistani people’s desire for a better future,
Rubbish. 1971 was the closest Pakistan got to a free and fair election. They actually had working political parties back then.

A failed or jihadist Pakistan means the hope of a bright,
shining India as one of the great countries of the 21st century will never
happen. You cannot become the most successful country in the world if
your neighbor next door is sick with paralyzing political problems, with
terrorism, and is a patron state of terror against you.
Why? We have had a sick Jihadist Pakistan next door since 1947. We would probably not have armed ourselves so heavily but would nevertheless have come up if it wasn't for the US encouraging Pakistan with a wink and a nudge. What's with all the pretence now?

I am shocked, shocked to hear that there will be a sick jihadist pakistan next door. Ayyayyo, and we had all these plans of developing our IT industry, raising our growth rate, and becoming a global player. Now that will never happen. Ayyayyo, why didn't the Americans warn us this is happening?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Apr 2011 07:26

You cannot become the most successful country in the world if
your neighbor next door is sick with paralyzing political problems, with
terrorism, and is a patron state of terror against you.

Doesn't matter. Second-most successful country in the world will do just fine.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Apr 2011 07:30

CRamS wrote:shyamd:

I am not talking about tackling TSP, thats a different matter. Its time for someone in New Delhi whose views Washington/London will take notice of, that all this talk about US supporting TSP for taking on Jihadis is only side show, the real reason is India containment. That line of thinking must be mainstream and not confined to BR or dismissed as a conspiracy.

Ronen Sen, for his coming out on behalf of US on nuke liability bill, will earn him huge brownie points among US elites. He may even get a visiting professorship at John Hopkin's school of international affairs, or some other plush appointment in US. Good for him and his family. But similiarly, if he exposes US bad faith in supporting the TSP terrorist regime arrayed against India, it sure will sure earn him kudos from his countrmen. Thats what I am suggesting.

Kudos from BRF don't count for a lot I am afraid. Currently there is no meaningful social or business or political entity that is tuned to appreciate the kind of truth-telling you are suggesting for Ronen Sen. If he tells the truth, it has to be because he believes in telling the truth and not because he will have any realistic expectation of earning "kudos."

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Apr 2011 07:50

shiv wrote:
A failed or jihadist Pakistan means the hope of a bright, shining India as one of the great countries of the 21st century will never happen. You cannot become the most successful country in the world if your neighbor next door is sick with paralyzing political problems, with terrorism, and is a patron state of terror against you.
Why? We have had a sick Jihadist Pakistan next door since 1947. We would probably not have armed ourselves so heavily but would nevertheless have come up if it wasn't for the US encouraging Pakistan with a wink and a nudge. What's with all the pretence now?

abhijitm wrote:Big big pigshit. How about South Korea? How come it prospered when having NoKo in neighbor? Only because there US did not play a double game with both the countries. There it is a clear distinction between an ally and an enemy, isn't it? Why Bruce Riedel does not apply the same pakistan logic over there? Lets see how much US wants to help NoKo with all the billion $ aid and F16s and what not. The problem is not only these US experts but many in India also think the same! God knows by which example they apply this logic to india and pak. The problem these so called expert have is self authored 'suspension of disbelief'.

You are right. A load of tripe from Bruce Riedel.

No need to point out South Korea to Bruce Riedel when there is an example from the history of his own country.

The USSR was, as Russia now is, a neighbour of the USA across the Bering Straits.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 24 Apr 2011 07:56

Manmohan opened secret talks with Pakistan's Gen Kayani: Report
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story ... 36168.html

Later in July 2009, Pasha reportedly met all three defence advisers of the Indian High Commission at Islamabad. He had then suggested that the ISI and the Pakistan Army should find a place in bilateral talks.