India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

[ranneel]

I believe the stage has come where we need to act on all our defense and aerospace projects like there is no tomorrow.Like how israel is surrounded by enemies,even we need to think that we are surrounded by enemies and expedite all critical projects.

[fanne]

plus the reserve has already been committed against the Chinese and not GB. However that can be some Sun Tzu from our side.

[darshan]

Agreement on the Maintenance of Peace and Tranquility along the Line of Actual Control in the India-China Border Areas

September 7, 1993

Sanju ji, this agreement was updated by follow up arrangements in 1996, 2005 and 2013

All years look like when there was weak Indian gov't.

[chola]

Gautam
PS I do not know why Sugarland is being referred to as "Dragon", there is no such creature. In BRF we have called them "Lizard".

I believe I coined the "lizard" on BR roughly a decade and half ago

I also coined "vaporware" for the J-10 on multiple other forums during the LCA/J-10 flamewars though that had a shorter shelflife. Okay enough of my reminiscing and bragging ...

[abhik]

I don't get this, how come we let the PLA occupy the ridge line at figure 4? It's one thing that they built a road at the base many years ago, but why did we leave the heights to them? Putting my armchair gernail's hat, this sounds like another "caught with pants down" moment. And they have massed at least a whole brigade strength just between F4-8.

Update: Corrected Image.

[Sonugn]

^Could it be possible that these were built in the last one month at a herculean pace when the negotiations were going on?

[Vips]

Is India prepared that China lobs 200-300 short range ballistic missiles in Indian cities and towns in north and east India? With buildings destroyed, flyovers down, power down, civilian casualties and civilian life disrupted? China's objective being purely to damage civilian morale. Will it happen? Maybe not? But China has that capability. And in a war always look at capability. Intentions can change. Before the last 48 hours, not too many people thought that China would savagely launch the attack at Galwan. And yet they did. How about tomorrow when hostilities start they decide to savagely attack Indian population centers with SRBMs and IRBMs?

Yes, India is prepared for a BORDER war, targeting Chinese military targets in Tibet. Is it prepared for a war which comes into Indian cities and towns? And if it does, how will India retaliate? Yes, in the meantime concurrently forces from the 2 sides will be slugging it out at the border and the IAF will launch missile strikes into Tibet. But we have to realize that Tibet which is 40% the size of India in terms of area has a population of only 21 million whereas the area in India which Chinese short range missiles can reach has a population of 800 million. There is a new Chinese commander. He wants to show results. India's show of force and build up may force him to come to the negotiating table. Or it may not. He may be foolish and decide to go for broke. Maybe the CMC and Xi have decided that they need a war to divert attention and rally the country behind him. Maybe they feel that any adventure in the East China sea or the South China sea will draw in the US and the result could truly spiral out of their control. Besides it will put the Chinese coastal heartland at risk. And so maybe from the Chinese perspective a war with India is a safe bet. India will calibrate it's response to match China. And even if China lobs SRBMs into Indian cities and global media show widespread destruction in Indian cities to show that Xi has won, what will India do to retaliate short of going nuclear? Is all this pre-ordained? Of course not. But as they say, only the paranoid survive.

If things become a little uncomfortable for the chinese they have the very easy option of forcing the Pakis to open a second front.

If they really target Indian cities then all India has to do is likewise strike the major export and manufacturing cities in China like Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Tianjin and see the CCP lizards make a bakra out of Xi.

[darshan]

Our soldiers at LAC are unarmed because Congress govt and govts supported by it signed these agreements with China: Here are the details
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/india-c ... m-prevent/
The second agreement signed in November 1996, defined the detailed protocols to achieve the goals set in the first agreement. And this is that agreement that bars soldiers from both the sides from using firearms on each other. The Article I of the agreement says that “neither side shall use its military capability against the other side. No armed forces deployed by either side in the border areas along the line of actual control.”

The most relevant provision in the context of the current situation is Article VI of the 1996 agreement. Section (1) of Article VI says that neither side can open fire guns or use explosives within two kilometres of the LAC. This means that both sides have agreed to not use weapons within the two kilometres of the LAC on both sides.

The Article III of the agreement says that both sides will reduce or limit combat tanks, infantry combat vehicles, guns (including howitzers) with 75 mm or bigger calibre, mortars with 120 mm or bigger calibre, surface-to-surface missiles, surface-to-air missiles and any other weapon system mutually agreed upon along the LAC.

A detailed reading of the 1996 agreement shows that it was aimed at avoiding a full scale war erupting between India and China by reducing use of weaponry an aggression at the border. And being one of the most professional armed forces in the world, the Indian security forces were not carrying firearms to respect the agreement signed by the government of India. It may be noted that although the Chinese sides showed barbarism by attacking Indian soldiers using primitive weapons like stones, sticks studded with nails and wrapped with barbed wire, even they technically respected the agreement by not firing shots.

Another agreement between India and China was signed in 2005 when Manmohan Singh led UPA-I govt was in power, and this agreement had reiterated the commitment of both the nations to abide by and implement the 1993 and 1996 agreements.

[RKumar]

Emergency purchase of 12 Sukhoi and 21 Mig-29 from russia.

Source- Twitter @FrontalAssault1

Not sure, if that means we are preparing well..or just bulking up for back ups.
Could be replacement ordered for the crashed once in the case of Sukhois, Is the Mig 29 already ordered getting urgency now?

Must be a joke, we should be signing a large contract for LCA MK1A, LCH, Dhanush, ATGA, Namica, Aakash and Pinaka, Arjuns ... and a very large quantity of different ammunition, clothing, boots, tents, bulletproof jackets n other protective gear.

Or maybe large quantities of medieval weapons along with shields ... if Chene only wants physical fights.

[ldev]

Can we take out their conventional SRBM/IRBM sites in Tibet through our missiles before they target our cities ?

The DF-11, all variants (~600 km range), about 1200 in the PLA Rocket Forces inventory, the DF-15 all variants (~700-800 km range), 350-450 in their inventory are the most likely missiles to be used to target India, whether to target IAF airbases or to use as weapons of civilian terror by targeting Indian cities/towns. On an average, each launcher will have 4 missiles attached to it. So if the PLA decides to target India with say 300 missiles that will involve about 75 launchers being moved into range. All these launchers/missiles are road mobile so to target them the IAF will need real time reconnaissance data if the PLA keeps moving them around. The next requirement is an Indian strike weapon that has that 600-800 km range and the precision to knock out the missile launchers. The ground launched Brahmos is certified for 500 km now? It has the required accuracy/CEP. There was talk I was reading about an ER Brahmos with a 800 km range. I do not know the range of the recently certified air launched Brahmos.

[darshan]

Thermal imagers of the grade similar to Javelin CLU would be of a great help.

This is where not having basic UAV testbed platforms available for various universities comes to bite. Many grad students could have been using this to hone their skills with various sensors on board including thermal. And all that would have been of use right now and the cost would have been very limited.

[pushkar.bhat]

ToI reporting that Jaishankar will attend the India-Russia-PRC joint meeting on 23rd June.

Also, some people mentioned the lack of 155mm's. Let me say this, if money was not a constraint and if its war our work centers can churn out the barrels as fast as your cook making fulka's. Ok I know that is a bit of exaggeration but it can happen pretty fast.

[RKumar]

I hope GoI decides to preemptively take down some Hans and then give a long speech on de-escalation and we don't want war.

Let's see what Hans can do it response to our action as they have taken the first step to ambush our guys. We must add cost to their 2 misadventures - 1) occupying our land 2) killing our guys.

China has no border with India, they are forcefully occupying Tibetian country.

[AshishA]

What are they saying? I know it wouldn't be any good but we need to know the enemy. How is their public is reacting to this?

I posted some things I saw on their social media yesterday but it's difficult due to the requirement for verified sources and such. To summarise what I read yesterday:

* The Chinese government has withheld pretty much all information apart from the statement by their Foreign Minister Wang Yi.

* There was some speculation on SM about casualties but it was all later removed. Their speculated numbers ranged from 0-40 probably because they were getting info from Indian media. Also a tweet by Hu Xijin (Gobar times) was widely shared to justify the government's hiding of casualties

* Chinese SM users are almost completely relying on Indian media and Indian twitter accounts to find out what's happening.

* There is plenty of racist and hateful stuff about India. After the censors removed the initial warmongering and replaced it with something bland, the Chinese started using "Printing" as a code for talking about the conflict [Printing written in Chinese can also be read as a short form for India Conflict]. 3D printing, referring to beating up Indians was a popular hashtag.

Unlike Chinese SM users who can be quite rowdy, the government is trying to suppress the warmongering. They are also trying to downplay the conflict as much as they can. Global Times is really more of a tabloid and doesn't give a picture of the government thinking except in the 2nd round. First they publish nationalist, jingoist garbage and then the government decides if the tone is appropriate. So day 2 is somewhat useful. Xinhua was downplaying it heavily. The border conflict was at number 6 with the top story about some speech by Xi about China-Africa unity. They might have decided to deescalate and hide the casualties and pretend this never happened. But with China one never knows. From the way they're handling the news, they at least want to keep that option open.

From what I am seeing here they are withholding information and putting up a front of deescalating while they bring their soldiers to the border. Moreover, isn't our govt doing the same by putting out with very less information though they can't control social media which their Chinese counter parts can.

Tbh this is all misdirection. They talk, they put out info, warmonger or don't, does not matter. It's their actions that matters. And the actions are -

*They have killed our soldiers in a barbaric manner

*They are continuing to bring more and more troops since the last 2 months.

*Their disengagement was a show meant to buy time

*They are now claiming the galwan valley as their own.

*They are begun their first phase of cyber attacks against India.

*A Chinese-ISI spy ring was busted in Mumbai. It was spying on defense installations in J&K.

All this points to one thing. Chinese have come with a sinister plan.

[abhik]

^Could it be possible that these were built in the last one month at a herculean pace when the negotiations were going on?

That sounds like a massive cluster f*** if we just let them construct such a large scale. And our side in the Mil-to-Mil talks are are expecting that the PLA will vacate this section? In a way this proves line that the "certain scribe" was taking.

[schinnas]

Chinese plans should have been put in action even before covid. They would want to build permanant winter proof structures on occupied areas during summer. Tactical improvements to the plan to target CO, barbarism would have been improvisations. But their larger strategic objective is large scale land grab of strategic locations in Ladakh.

We should make sure eastern front is safe from any encroachments as well.

[Aditya_V]

I don't get this, how come we let the PLA occupy the ridge line at figure 4? It's one thing that they built a road at the base many years ago, but why did we leave the heights to them? Putting my armchair gernail's hat, this sounds like another "caught with pants down" moment. And they have massed at least a whole brigade strength just between F4-8.

Update: Corrected Image.

One option is an attack spangur, using Marco's land at Sirijap and pound those posts with artillery from chushul, these ridges are exposed from the southern side. It could become a mini stalingrad moment for the Chinese.

[yensoy]

I don't get this, how come we let the PLA occupy the ridge line at figure 4? It's one thing that they built a road at the base many years ago, but why did we leave the heights to them? Putting my armchair gernail's hat, this sounds like another "caught with pants down" moment.

Exactly, this part just doesn't make any sense. They seem to have an iron grip of the ridge line and finger 4 onwards. And I recall reading somewhere that we had actually surprised them by making an inland surprise visit on their Finger 4/5 beach some time ago, so it's not like we don't know the benefits of controlling the heights. BTW, in the colonel's interview with Nitin Gokhale he said that all of our activities were clearly visible to the other from the other side of the lake, not speaking of satellites, drones etc. So the Chinese buildup on Pangong Tso is alarming.

Regarding EAM statement about soldiers carrying arms, let's get confirmation from the military. I doubt any gun carrying soldier is thinking about "peace and tranquility agreements" when his partner is being lynched. He would have absolutely used whatever was available to him - khukri or gun - to defend against this kind of attack. I think EAM is being glib here. I would hate for it to be true that the braves were carrying guns but didn't use them while their lives were being snuffed out because of some stupid agreement.

[AshishA]

Btw aren't we forgetting one important fact? Xi had promised China unification of all their so called territories not under Chinese control in 2020.

They were preparing to go to war to annex those territories in 2020. It included Taiwan too.

[habal]

If things become a little uncomfortable for the chinese they have the very easy option of forcing the Pakis to open a second front.

If they really target Indian cities then all India has to do is likewise strike the major export and manufacturing cities in China like Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Tianjin and see the CCP lizards make a bakra out of Xi.

Pakistan will not intervene imho, they are already in a vice like grip of western multilateral aid agencies. Rest assured, the americans will take care of pakistan while we probe at China and take back our occupied land. Pakistani generals already have been taken into account for the duration of this conflict.

[Pashupatastra]

I don't get this, how come we let the PLA occupy the ridge line at figure 4? It's one thing that they built a road at the base many years ago, but why did we leave the heights to them? Putting my armchair gernail's hat, this sounds like another "caught with pants down" moment.

Exactly, this part just doesn't make any sense. They seem to have an iron grip of the ridge line and finger 4 onwards. And I recall reading somewhere that we had actually surprised them by making an inland surprise visit on their Finger 4/5 beach some time ago, so it's not like we don't know the benefits of controlling the heights. BTW, in the colonel's interview with Nitin Gokhale he said that all of our activities were clearly visible to the other from the other side of the lake, not speaking of satellites, drones etc. So the Chinese buildup on Pangong Tso is alarming.

Regarding EAM statement about soldiers carrying arms, let's get confirmation from the military. I doubt any gun carrying soldier is thinking about "peace and tranquility agreements" when his partner is being lynched. He would have absolutely used whatever was available to him - khukri or gun - to defend against this kind of attack. I think EAM is being glib here. I would hate for it to be true that the braves were carrying guns but didn't use them while their lives were being snuffed out because of some stupid agreement.

EAM attending the joint meeting with Russian and Chinese Foreign ministers is a replay of Tashkent once again. The one who would be perceived weak would be Indian EAM weakening our cause.If diplomacy could have solved India -China disputes , then Wuhan or Mahabalipuram would have done it. But , do understand that bureaucrats need their relevance / earn bread butter.

[Philip]

Former army chief,Gen.VP Malik said that " China has no sanctity for the LAC". Sadly,the current dispensation were forewarned a few years ago at Doklam. It cannot say that this was unusual behaviour from China, in fact it is NORMAL behaviour of China to invade,state the occupied territory is theirs and pressurise to the max waiting for the MEA mice to " talk", or rather squeak at meetings held to escalate the crisis.

Now Rahul G has asked why our troops were " unarmed" in the clash after the experience of the first incident? Sr. retd. army officers have said that when your life is threatened,or invasion of territory takes place ANY weapon can be used to defendyourself including arty.
One can only surmise the following.MEA talks with their Chin counterparts indicated that the Chins wanted to defuse the situ and after the generals met, that a de- escalation was agreed upon.
The forces on the ground would've been told that such would take place and not to exacerbate the issues, by accident or design.Thus troops interacting would be either " unarmed", or if carrying arms to remove magazines,, to show good faith.
Unfortunately, there was anything but good faith in the Chins.They slaughtered the CO and pounced upon his small accompanying contingent. What is open to question is why the reinforcements which reportedly rushed to the scene did not use firearms after knowing what had happened?

The govt. is really up agaunst the wall,rather mountain with China,which has at least 2 brigades in the area,a convoy stretching 5 to 6 km from sat imagery.The only silver lining is that they are vulnerable to arty or air attack, which should be our first option,to wipe them out of the Galwan Valley using max. force.

[RajaRudra]

I don't get this, how come we let the PLA occupy the ridge line at figure 4? It's one thing that they built a road at the base many years ago, but why did we leave the heights to them? Putting my armchair gernail's hat, this sounds like another "caught with pants down" moment. And they have massed at least a whole brigade strength just between F4-8.

Update: Corrected Image.

One option is an attack spangur, using Marco's land at Sirijap and pound those posts with artillery from chushul, these ridges are exposed from the southern side. It could become a mini stalingrad moment for the Chinese.

Theoretically many ways to skin the cat. along with all the above you mentioned, we may end up physically doing it just like kargil. But that will tie up a lot of resources. May be, we should capture multiple unmanned features along with logistics planned to the last detail.

That may force the china to come to table with REAL intentions.

[nam]

The thing with Chini BM is they can either use it against our forces (IAF, IA staging, ammo fuel dumps etc) or on cities( infra, MIC)

Most of our critical MIC are down south. Not saying they cannot be hit, but would require expensive long range missile. Regular infra structure would make no difference. A hit flyover is no different from from a fallen one made by a contractor from the local MLA's SIL's son's neighbour.

If our forces make rapid gains, Chinis will be forced to concentrate on them rather than hitting our cities. Airbases & log locations are static, they would become target. But will the Chini be able to hit a mobile army?

This scenario is similar to Pak's threat to use TNW, which our forces have cater to for decades now. Would they know if the are not hitting their own forces with BM? Not easy.

So in all probability only airbases, static bridges near LAC & log dumps are the ones which will get hit. Others have low probability and would depend on how well our forces destroy PLA on LAC.

One reason, i keep say, when the balloon goes up, we need to throw everything we got on the PLA and decimate their forces. Need to make the Chinis concentrate on containing PLA losses...

[habal]

the reason why we have not build up like the Chinese have in the area is because we intend to hit their massed formations and do not want to give such easy target to them in return. I do not see a way in which the PLA can win any war, Global Times bluster apart, they have a long supply chain and this theatre is pretty much isolated from rest of China. If communication links and bridges are broken down these Chinese out in galwan are pretty much trapped.

[RajaRudra]

EAM attending the joint meeting with Russian and Chinese Foreign ministers is a replay of Tashkent once again. The one who would be perceived weak would be Indian EAM weakening our cause.If diplomacy could have solved India -China disputes , then Wuhan or Mahabalipuram would have done it. But , do understand that bureaucrats need their relevance / earn bread butter.

Diplomats can push the dates. But eventually things will be settled in the field only. Hope we are using the time to prepare more.
Preparation - here i also mean govt and people. I am having full confidence with regard to our armed forces.

When the war starts. There will be loses, Our planes may get shot in the enemy territory and media/people should not yell at army, There will be a flow of coffins(media/people should be prepared to handle it. There WILL BE attacks on civilians in cities.
-Amid all this, there will be frustrating and no hope moments - media/people should be prepared.

I don't think Social Media will be running, Hoping so. People needs to be prepared mentally.

What ever the result may be. We should stand with govt/army. If a war happened and people don't stand up to the struggle, then next three generation will be shy of any bold moves.

[Ashokk]

Thousands bid tearful adieu to Galwan Valley martyr Colonel Santosh Babu
Heart-wrenching pictures, hope the sacrifice by him and his colleagues does not go in vain

[Aditya_V]

I agree we Indians not only the army, even if our cities are attacked should go ahead with this. If we don't fight now we will be made into slaves.

[abhik]

I don't get this, how come we let the PLA occupy the ridge line at figure 4? It's one thing that they built a road at the base many years ago, but why did we leave the heights to them? Putting my armchair gernail's hat, this sounds like another "caught with pants down" moment. And they have massed at least a whole brigade strength just between F4-8.

Update: Corrected Image.

One option is an attack spangur, using Marco's land at Sirijap and pound those posts with artillery from chushul, these ridges are exposed from the southern side. It could become a mini stalingrad moment for the Chinese.

As per Saurabh Jha they are already massing at Chushul too, looks like they have gamed their options.
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1273226558195433472

Saurav Jha
@SJha1618
Meanwhile, reports of a heavy People's Liberation Army Ground Force (PLAGF) buildup opposite Chushul Sector are coming in. Stay tuned.

[Philip]

Russia has scores of SU-30SMs,equiv to MKIs,SU-35s,etc. We should request an immediate lease of 3 to 4 sqds of available aircraft while the extra MKIs and MIGs are being delivered. A few MIG-31s,offered earlier to replace our MIG-25s,as AWACS killers would be very useful,plus lease of Backfires or Bears,the latter we've operated until recently for maritime strike.More 155mm light howitzers from the US and western nations from existing stocks to add to the number already ordered/ being delivered. Extra Chinooks,MI-26T heavy lift helos,both on lease,C-130s,MI-17Vs, missiles of varying reqs., etc. Israeli and Ru battlefield SR SAM systems ,ICVs/ light tanks as well.

For the IN apart from LR maritime strike aircraft that can take the fight into the ICS, extra P-8s if available on lease until the extra 4/8 are delivered, the offered Kilo subs plus another Akula on lease asap until the second Chakra being modified arrives in a couple of years time. We don't know what the stocks of tactical missiles and PGMs are withthe IA and IAF, but emergency acquisitions from abroad should be sought while boosting desi production 24 X 7. From GWars experience,missiles likd Tomahawks and PGMs quickly get exhausted in the initial days of conflict. The US had to boost T'hawk production hugely to meet demand.In the Libyan conflict,dozens were fired in salvoes by US subs and warships. To hit Chin airbases, PLA commsnd centres and strongpoints,key infra installations like bridges,tunnels,etc. severing the Karakorum highway, etc. we would need hundreds of tactical missiles for the same.

Our CG vessels must be fitted asap with SSMs,minewarfare and ASW eqpt. where possible to add to the no. of " shooters" inthe inventory of the IN/ CG. Extra missile craft are required at the chokepoints operating out of the ANC.Extra Dorniers planned must be ordered and every asset that can fly be brought into service from the reserves. I don't know if the recently retd. MIG-27sqd. can be re-commissioned,but every extra aircraft and helo matters especially in the opening hours/ days of conflict. One item which could be very useful which some time ago we were contemplating are E-2C/D Hawkeye AEW aircraft.
Leased,these could operate from land to add to our modest no. of AWACS and AEW aircraft in service. They could be invaluable tracking Chin aircraft all along the 3000+km northern border.

It is unfortunate that if some of these decisions and acquisitions had been ordered a year ago,the Chins would've been more cautious in invading. As usual,Indian govts. resort to knee-jerk reactions when the shit hits the fan.This crisis is a colossal failure of our foreign policy and a clean up in the MEA is reqd. immediately.Gen VKS the Dy.FM must be given greater responsibility. " Jaw,jaw" has failed. Other more steely options are reqd.

[Pashupatastra]

EAM attending the joint meeting with Russian and Chinese Foreign ministers is a replay of Tashkent once again. The one who would be perceived weak would be Indian EAM weakening our cause.If diplomacy could have solved India -China disputes , then Wuhan or Mahabalipuram would have done it. But , do understand that bureaucrats need their relevance / earn bread butter.

Diplomats can push the dates. But eventually things will be settled in the field only. Hope we are using the time to prepare more.
Preparation - here i also mean govt and people. I am having full confidence with regard to our armed forces.

When the war starts. There will be loses, Our planes may get shot in the enemy territory and media/people should not yell at army, There will be a flow of coffins(media/people should be prepared to handle it. There WILL BE attacks on civilians in cities.
-Amid all this, there will be frustrating and no hope moments - media/people should be prepared.

I don't think Social Media will be running, Hoping so. People needs to be prepared mentally.

What ever the result may be. We should stand with govt/army. If a war happened and people don't stand up to the struggle, then next three generation will be shy of any bold moved.

Agree with the analysis. But , has there been an instance when Indian public has asked for cessation of war hostilities or forced the govt. hand to reach for a compromise. If I remember correctly , in 1999 Kargil conflict , the whole nation had come together as one and joined the war effort in individual capacity. But , there will always be a small minority who would have avested interest in China , be they the businessmen or politicians or civilians.

[krishna_krishna]

Posting this pic from bbc, about the weapons used. This should not have gone to BBC first anyways, blood boils hope we prepare in the time we are negotiating :

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53089037

Posting this from a father who lost his son, if I understand this correctly " You are born as a man then what fear you may have ?, we have two more ready to join defence forces" :

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1273614771942682624

[Larry Walker]

Let me ask a hypothetical question - what news or developments need to happen in next 4-5 days so that come next Tuesday morning, you feel that we have not been out-manouvered and beaten back by China.

[khan]

Let me ask a hypothetical question - what news or developments need to happen in next 4-5 days so that come next Tuesday morning, you feel that we have not been out-manouvered and beaten back by China.

Shots fired. If they are going to take land, make them fight for it.

[RajaRudra]

Agree with the analysis. But , has there been an instance when Indian public has asked for cessation of war hostilities or forced the govt. hand to reach for a compromise......

Media has to be tamed and every bit of information/content/context has to be vetted.

Yes, the WILL of the people is the real strength for the country.

[krishna_krishna]

Let me ask a hypothetical question - what news or developments need to happen in next 4-5 days so that come next Tuesday morning, you feel that we have not been out-manouvered and beaten back by China.

Larry a real answer to your hypothetical question. This is no feel good , this is war some people already lost their near and dear ones and I fear many more for the land we love above all. The revenge has to be extracted and will be extracted. Its hard for foreigners who have not fought for their land to understand.

[Aditya_V]

We did not wish this, the PLA have forced us, theywant to inflict another 1962 on us, unfortunately Indian men and women will die. It's better we restrict our causulaties and make thier sacrifices for victory not defeat.

[schinnas]

First thing would be to take our key bridges and tunnels of Chinese supply routes and make their forces sitting ducks. But kill only those needed to demonstrate punishment. The rest should be forced to surrender and surrendered officers kept as shields to prevent missile strikes on army installations.

I have a feeling that India won't immediately retaliate. It's not how Modi or our Army chiefs operate. We don't have any doubt about the resolve of India. Modi will not issue such a warning on national TV if he is not planning on walking the talk.

Remember - in 1971, we took several months and waited for winter to commence attack.

Lot of covert actions behind enemy lines can be made until then to disrupt supply lines and spread them thin.

[Philip]

KK,absolutey right.This is war,not an accidental incident.As some reputed analysts and sr. retd. officers have said,the Chinese build up shows that they came prepared for war and wanted bloodshed. At least 2 brigades with supporting arty,mortars,SAMs,tactical missiles,tanks/ AVs, helos, heavy eqpt.,are inposition,plus aircraft at their air bases are all poised to wage war. The ball is now in our court. Are we prepared?

[manjgu]

1) i am still not sure chini wanted bloodshed ( of their own i mean)..isnt their whole effort about winning without losing anyone?? 2) on the spat about carrying guns on the LAC... sambit patra read from a agreement between Deve gowda and Ling Ping DIng...which said no weapons within 2 KM of LAC ( quoting verbatim from the agreement)... i didnt understand when the LAC itself not marked, how did they manage to sign such a agreement?? is the diplomatic corps sleeping?