Indian Navy and International Anti-Piracy Ops

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chetak
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by chetak »

kaangeya wrote:this is becoming big news. was just watching the Rachel Maddow Show. Alison Stewart standing in today for Rachel calls the pirate ship firing on INS Tabar akin to a punk tugging on Superman's cape :wink: And claims that India is acting up because $100 billion worth Indian shipping passes thru the region and which is why India has planted its flag on hte moon, blown up a pirate ship in the last few weeks :rotfl:
Its a strange day when Michael SAvage says that the US navy needs to act like the Indian Navy
A lot of right wing talkers are quite appreciative of India excepting of course types like Chuck Colson.

Absolutely unprovoked attack on peaceful minorities going about their national pastime, and that too, in international waters!
You are going to be hearing from the National commission for minorities as well as other civil liberties, human rights groups that care to wake up from deep slumber!!
Expect demonstrations in some cities followed by the gala ritual of bus burning.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Singha »

on INS Tabar akin to a punk tugging on Superman's cape

more like coupla muggers in a dark alley running into Batman on one of his moody days.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Amber G. »

ndia has planted its flag on hte moon, blown up a pirate ship in the last few weeks
I was also watching the show and that is where I first heard it .. LA Times at present has this as the top news in the world section.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Raj Malhotra »

If I understand the legal niceties of UN operations, then it is requirement that the Peace corps must be itself / protectee must be attacked and only then it can act. It cannot do so , before or after in retaliation. Therefore perhaps the self protection bit. :mrgreen:
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Sudhanshu »

:) It would have been more fun if the Captain of INS Tabar used on board Bramhos cruise missiles to destroy pirates mother ship.

IN would have made two points:
1. Scare sh_t out of surviving pirates, next time they won't tout RPG against any Indian vessel.
2. Live testing of Bramhos, not exactly overkill.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by creole »

I wonder how much insurance fraud is there in these highjackings -- picture this: ship full of lower value stuff gets insured high, deal struck with pirates, company claims full insurance on cargo, pays off the pirates and gets their ship back. In this scenario, crew would make no attempt to fight off pirates -- it's pre-planned.

Note: I'm not saying this is what is happening to the majority. The crew of these ships playing this region face real danger. I would not want to be out there, I would not want my family members out there. I sympathize with those out there and with those that have loved ones out there. And I don't believe countries including India have taken a strong enough (IMO) stance -- I would have them actually chase the pirates all the way back into Somalia -- and blast away their bases and all ships there.

But, someone always figures out a way to turn strife into profit -- just human nature...

Just a cynical thought
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by vavinash »

Brahmos or klub costs more than a few of trawlers
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by asbchakri »

vavinash wrote:Brahmos or klub costs more than a few of trawlers
Yeah i agree. Just a few shells ought to do the job. Bhramos is an overkill mate.

But it would be an option to use on the land base of the pirates. It would be a good live test to test its ability at a Sea to Land kill with Precision strike. :D
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by John Snow »

But, someone always figures out a way to turn strife into profit -- just human nature...

Just a cynical thought
Thats how AIG lost money, :mrgreen: I lost my contract and Got my Pink slip :((
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by gandharva »

edited
Last edited by gandharva on 20 Nov 2008 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Nayak »

ding ding ding

Capitalist dogs come to the party on cue :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1 ... 197C536152

London - The American security company Blackwater is planning to cash in on the rising threat of piracy on the high seas by launching a flotilla of gunboats for hire by the shipping companies.

The firm, which gained notoriety when its staff killed civilians in Iraq, has already equipped a vessel, the McArthur, which will carry up to 40 armed guards and have a landing pad for an attack helicopter.

The McArthur, a former survey ship, will arrive in the Gulf of Aden, the scene of recent high-profile hijackings by Somali pirates, next month.

It is to be joined by similar vessels over the next year to form the company's private navy.




Several security companies are rushing to the region despite the presence of British, American, Russian and Indian naval warships, among others, sent to protect ships.

For fees ranging from ?8 000 (R120 000) to ?12 000 for transits of three and five days, companies are offering teams of unarmed guards, or "non-lethal deck security personnel".

With shipowners paying an estimated R1,1-billion in ransom for the return of crew and cargo, the security companies foresee a lucrative business.

A US company, Hollowpoint Protective Services, is offering a comprehensive service of hostage negotiations backed by armed rescue operations.

Eos, a British firm, says it favours a "non-lethal" approach with the use of sophisticated laser, microwave and acoustical devices.

Blackwater plans to have the largest and most heavily armed presence among the security contractors.

The company believes the presence of escorting gunboats will have a deterrent effect.

Meanwhile, an Indian warship has destroyed a pirate "mother vessel" in the Gulf of Aden.

The frigate INS Tabar attacked the Somali pirate ship on Tuesday after coming under fire, a navy spokesperson said.

It was the first time a mother ship had been destroyed, in the most significant blow to the pirates so far.

The International Maritime Bureau said pirates based in lawless Somalia were now out of control.

The piracy crisis has grown since the capture of the super-tanker Sirius Star on Saturday. The vessel is carrying a full load of 2-million barrels of oil worth an estimated R1-billion.

The Al-Jazeera television channel day broadcast an audiotape that it said was of one of the pirates making a ransom demand.

"Negotiators are located on board the ship and on land. Once they have agreed on the ransom, it will be taken in cash to the oil tanker," said the man.

"We will mechanically count the money and we have machines that can detect fake money," the man said.

Pirates have hijacked three ships since capturing the Sirius Star. The East African Seafarers' Association, said a Thai fishing boat, a Hong Kong-registered freighter and a Greek bulk carrier were seized in the Gulf of Aden on Tuesday.

The German navy said one of its frigates had foiled attacks on two ships in the Gulf of Aden, using a helicopter to chase away pirates, who fled in speedboats. - The Independent; Sapa-AFP
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by shiv »

Sudhanshu wrote::) It would have been more fun if the Captain of INS Tabar used on board Bramhos cruise missiles to destroy pirates mother ship.

IN would have made two points:
1. Scare sh_t out of surviving pirates, next time they won't tout RPG against any Indian vessel.
2. Live testing of Bramhos, not exactly overkill.
That would be like running 15 floors up a high rise building when all you need to do is scratch your armpit.

The way to "scare" them would be to blow up 2 or 3 mother ships in harbor using missiles from 100 Km out.

"Kaboom, Kaboom" in the night.

But that would technically be an attack on Somalia's so.. sov... :rotfl: :rotfl:
..sorry can't stop myself from laughing while typing the word - I mean it would technically be an attack on Somalia's sovereignty such as there is.
gandharva
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by gandharva »

are $$$$$ Singh and Sonia aware that Somalis belong to the religion of peace !! ?
Last edited by Rahul M on 20 Nov 2008 17:12, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: namecalling not allowed.user warned.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Singha »

rather than take out a rusty trawler that can be sunk anytime, we need to id who are the
biggest gang leaders in the area...should not be difficult to bribe a couple of market
informers...then blow up their lavish seaside mansions just as the nights party has
started and all are gathered.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by amanpuneet »

don't these Somalis belong to peace loving minority so this is the time for our leaders to come in defense for the peace loving people who are just earning there bread and butter in international water who are being destroyed aggressive yindoos on INS tabar :evil:
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by shiv »

self deleted
Last edited by shiv on 20 Nov 2008 18:32, edited 1 time in total.
Singha
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Singha »

excerpt from a AFP report:

On Wednesday, Russia's ambassador to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, called on the international community to launch a joint amphibious operation against pirate strongholds in Somalia.

However, any such operation would likely require the approval of the U.N. Security Council, whose resolutions on anti-piracy operations are vague, Choong said.

"The U.N. and international community must decide how to solve this grave problem. They must be more forceful in their action," he said.

Action should have been taken "years back or even last year when piracy was just starting. It's clearly getting worse and out of control," he said.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Nayak »

Swatting the somalians will be akin to going after hordes of flies. Navy should enforce a safe-zone and passage. I wonder everybody knows that shiny new powerful boats will need maintenance and a safe parking place in the harbour. Why not start arbitrarily sinking these new toys ?

No boats no piracy.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Philip »

The latest report of the pirate ultimatum demands an immediate response from the international community.Just as pirate and slave ports were destroyed in the days of sail,when they defied international opinion,so should the pirate base at Eyl and other smaller bases on the Somalian coast be utterly destroyed.Like bloodthirsty leeches the Somalian pirates have become so emboldened that they tried to attack the Tabar.If not put down with total ruthlessness,it will be very soon before we find AlQ and other terrorist organisation joining hands with the pirates and making suicide attacks againt selected shipping.

It has completely baffling why the USN with its massive supercarriers and gigantic air and naval base at Diego Garcia,which has been used to pursue the "war on terror" in Iraq and Afghanistan from Diego Garcia,has done bu**er all in Somalia.Is it a "Blackhawk Down" syndrome that afflicts it? With so much of international shipping at stake and the nations affected by this piracy include major military and economic powers too,like Britain and Saudi Arabia,these nations have made little or no military effort to eradicate the pirate menace.Earlier,before the Tabar swung into action,foreign naval warships refused to go to the aid of an Indian merchantman when threatened.This is when India asked for an urgent UN naval task force to be set up.Why the west which can grandly through NATO plant missiles on Russia's border,cannot deal with a motley bunch of pirates out of Africa is astounding.

Now that the IN has taken decisive action,it must be followed up further to destroy utterly the pirate infrastructure on the Somalian coast.The Somalian govt. is absolutely helpless,thanks to its rule being undermined by the Bush support for "Christain" Ethiopian troops within the country.If western and other nations are crying shy of tackling the Somalin pirates ,then India must protect its own shipping,with a clear message that messing around with Indian shipping will see the pirates joining Davy Jones in his locker! A pity that the Viraat is in refit,underscoring the urgent need for the Gorshkov acquisition to go through smoothly and the IAC (being built at Cochin) arrives on schedule 5 years + hence.What the IN can do though is to send a couple of TU-142 Bears on a bombing raid on Ely,the aircraft can fly to S.Africa and back and were originally designed as LR bombers ,still used by Russia in that role as well.The Bears can carry a large load of ordnance,enough to destroy the port facilities.A synchronised air/naval attack on the port by Bears and IN warships-we need to send in a task foce with few more major surface vessels to assist the Tabar,an amphibious squadron including our recently acquired LPD,the Jalashwa /Trenton can join the party with a team of commandoes/marines aboard.Its landing craft and helos invluable,plus a few Kora class missile corvettes for good measure,as these corvettes have undertaken extensive friendly visits to the Far east,Gulf,etc.

There is a great opportunity for the IN and India to show off our naval prowess and our intended ambitious maritime doctrine,especially to the African and Gulf nations,some of whom are being heavily wooed by China even as we speak.The Chinese pres. Hu, is right now in Cuba extending China's global foreign policy plans into the Caribbean.It was just a year ago that it hosted a huge meet of African leaders and offered them massive Chinese aid in return for marauding Africa's mineral wealth.Now is the time to show the Africans who talks and who walks !

PS:More reports.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 192674.ece
Somali pirates seize ninth vessel in 12 days

Catherine Philp, Diplomatic Correspondent
The battle with pirates operating off the coast of Somalia grew yesterday when raiders seized two more ships but lost one of their own in an uneven firefight with the Indian Navy. The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) described the situation yesterday as “out of control”.

The surge in hijackings came as Saudi Arabia confirmed that a ransom demand had been made for the freeing of the Sirius Star supertanker, seized at the weekend with her crew of 25 and a cargo of oil worth $100 million (£65 million).

Two more vessels – a Thai fishing boat with a crew of 16, and a bulk carrier, believed to be Greek, with an unknown number of people aboard – were seized by pirates in the Gulf of Aden yesterday, bringing the total to nine vessels in 12 days.

Late on Tuesday night the Indian frigate Tabar destroyed the raiders’ “mother ship” after coming under attack from pirates firing rocket-propelled grenades, the Indian Navy said. The confrontation was the first involving one of the vessels used by the pirates to extend their range. Shipping groups said that the loss of a vessel did not mean that the pirates’ activities would be curtailed. “The situation is already out of control,” said Noel Choong, head of the piracy reporting centre at the IMB in Kuala Lumpur. “With no strong deterrent, low risk to the pirates and high returns, the attacks will continue.”

1920: Pirates in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea
Related Links
Risks of storming the Sirius are too great
Indian Navy sinks pirate mothership after attack threat
Tackling piracy will take a concerted effort

David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, said yesterday that the Royal Navy was coordinating the European response to the supertanker’s seizure from its warship in the region, HMS Cumberland. Saudi Arabia has also pledged to join the international task force operating under a UN mandate, along with new pledges of ships from Sweden and South Korea.

Two British crewmen held hostage aboard theSirius Starwere named yesterday as chief engineer Peter French and second officer James Grady. Of the remaining crew, 19 are Filipino, 2 Polish, 1 Croatian and 1 Saudi.

The international furore over the hijack of the supertanker, the largest ship yet taken by pirates, may lead its captors to seek a swift resolution for fear of other intervention. However, the value of both vessel and cargo may also lead to drawn-out bargaining, as it has in the case of the Ukrainian arms ship seized in September. The Qatar-based Arabic TV channel al-Jazeera aired video yesterday of a purported middleman saying that negotiations had begun on board the tanker and on shore.

The Saudi Foreign Minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, said the ship’s owners, Vela International, had opened negotiations over a sum, although the company itself remained tight-lipped, citing the safety of the crew. The ship is moored off the Somali coast, close to the well-defended pirate haven of Eyl.

“I know that the owners of the tanker are negotiating on the issue,” the prince said. “We do not like to negotiate with either terrorists or hijackers, but the owners of the tankers are the final arbiters of what happens there.”

“We are going to join the task force that will try to eradicate this threat to international trade.”

The violence of the Indian confrontation on Tuesday night has raised alarm over the pirates’ growing audacity. An Indian Navy statement said the confrontation began when the Tabar approached the boat and spotted groups of men armed with rocket-propelled grenades and Kalashnikovs.

“The INS Tabar closed in on the mother vessel and asked her to stop for investigation,” the statement said. “But on repeated calls, the vessel’s threatening response was that she would blow up the naval warship if it approached.”

An exchange of fire ensued and the navy ship opened up with heavy guns. “From what we see in photographs the pirate vessel is completely destroyed,” a senior naval officer said.

British Royal Navy Commodore Keith Winstanley, deputy commander of the Combined Maritime Forces in the Middle East, said he feared no amount of coalition forces would be sufficient to secure the 2.5 million sq nautical miles of the Gulf of Aden, let alone the Indian Ocean waters where the supertanker was seized. “The pirates will go somewhere we are not,” he said. “If we patrol the Gulf of Aden then they will go to Mogadishu. If we go to Mogadishu, they will go to the Gulf of Aden.”

Have your say

Hungry people don't stay hungry for long. What do they have left to lose Tom Antrim? If everyone in the world came together and helped each other and taught each other, maybe there would be no crime. Maybe there would be no reason to rob or hurt each other. Cause and effect, supply and demand.

greg, fairfax,, USA

These pirates do not deserve mery - they have no regard for the ships or crew.-, they go in with their guns and weapons. The response by the international governments should be to fuly protect. Just blow them out the water. Creat "safe "paasage corridors for shipping. Protect with assembled navies.

Richard Bradley, Northampton, uk

Get rid of the pirates. The UN with the cooperation of the world needs to destroy these threats. These are the real terrorists where they terrorize innocent merchant ships for their own profit. Now sea, tomorrow land, then air.

Is the world going to let is pass by?

Joshua GM, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Making a desert out of Somalia might help or is the civilized country just going to knuckle under and pay ransom for ever?

Tom Antrim, Mountain View, USA

British Royal Navy Commodore Keith Winstanley statement that they will keep moving from one place to another sound that his navy is helpless. "Kill those pirates so that they cant move from one place to another".

kumar, Atlanta, US

So the various government all over the world who tax their people cant be safe.

kumar, Atlanta, US

Ships travel in Convoys. Convoys escorted by war ships. A few war ships could protect a dozen + ships.Cost of protection is paid fully by ship owners & cost includes, operational,maintenance, depreciation, ammunition & miscellaneous.NO free US Navy,shippers pay 100% of all costs for protection..

Marty, Los Angeles, USA

Mark the area off into grids. Put some drones in the air with Hellfire missles. Identify them and and sink them. The pirate activity will stop.

Craig, CM, US

Forget the Navies, put in a few Apache Longbow attack helicopters. They'll soon run out of clean underwear!


Duncan T, Truro, Great Britain

By using modern technology and warships carrying attack helicopters, the problem could be ended rather quickly and bloodily. Of course, the pirates' safe havens would have to be destroyed, which would require attacks on some of Somalia's coastal towns, similar to defeating the Barbary pirates.

Major Mike, Gualala, California, USA

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... f-25m.html

Somali pirates who hijacked supertanker Sirius Star 'demand ransom of $25m'
Somali pirates who hijacked the Saudi oil supertanker the Sirius Star have reportedly demanded a ransom of $25million (£17m) for the safe return of the ship and its crew of 25, including two Britons.
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Don't wait for UNSC resolutions

Post by Shivani »

Patrolling the waters and going after individual ships is extremely expensive and ultimately not fool proof given the massive amount of area. There simply aren't enough ships to be everywhere the pirates can strike.

Send the Sukhois to bomb the coastal villages and towns. Settle the issue before the humanitarians step in and try to resolve the situation via UN resolutions.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by vipins »

India mulls increase in number of warships to fight pirates
With its operations to bust piracy in the Gulf of Aden meeting with success this week, India on Thrusday said it was considering augmenting naval assets to fight the threat to peaceful commercial shipping in the region.
The proposal to increase the number of warships and augment its naval assets came from the Shipping Ministry, which suggested four warships to be deployed there.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Sid »

Shivani wrote:Patrolling the waters and going after individual ships is extremely expensive and ultimately not fool proof given the massive amount of area. There simply aren't enough ships to be everywhere the pirates can strike.

Send the Sukhois to bomb the coastal villages and towns. Settle the issue before the humanitarians step in and try to resolve the situation via UN resolutions.
Taking unilateral action, and going Rambo over such issues is understandable. But its not practical no matter how insane it may sound. If Indian Navy or Gov will go gung-ho over Somalia then it will send a wrong message unlike most posters think here. For other countries it will be like "its Somalia today, next time it can be us".

That why Indian Gov didn't approved any such unilateral action and also want a UN back force instead of Blackwater or NATO patrolling that area. Although inaction by UN at this juncture is very sad.

Only solution to this problem is sending UN (which is quite impossible as there is no UNITED nations now), or setup some task force which had nod from all concerned nations to blockade this area. This operation should not be prolonged, which is the main reason (IMO) countries are backing out of such action as it can be costly and bloody.

Heavens forbid, if we lose any Navy personal in such operation you will see a complete different mood in India.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Neela »

For those of you who want to follow piracy in more detail , check here,.

Live Piracy map from Intl. Chamber of Commerce

All reported incidents have been logged.

4 incidents on Indian Maritime boundary. All 4 seem to be minor attempts at theft, so cant be strictly called as piracy.

Now considering the maritime coastline. Indian waters seem to be quite safe!!

:)
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Philip »

The idea is not to patrol endlesly,but to DESTROY the pirate havens.Once destroyed,they will find it more difficult to relocate and their very relocation will serve as a signal defeat.At the moment,there is strangely a lot of defeatist talk in the western media right now.The SU's range is the problem,they will need in-flight refuelling and cannot carry as much as the Bears built as long range bombers.This event also reminds one of the gaping hole in our LRMP capability due to paucity in numbers.The IN would do well to acquire more Tu-142s aand IL-38s as an interim measure and equip then with whatever is the best available ASW/ASuW and EW/ESM/NCW suite from diverse sources no matter what the cost.The P-8 still hasn't flown in its Mk1 version,.which will only be fitted with later build P-3 Orion eqpt.Interestingly,it ws not too long ago that Russia had a huge naval exercise in the IOR,off the very same African coast,where there was some joint exercises with India.In the Russian exercise,Blackjack and Bear bombers flying out of Russian bases,launched missiles at "targets" in the IOR.Russia has said that it is sending more naval warships to Somalia to prevent and defeat piracy.There is really only one way to end this piracy,by destroying their bases and infrastructure on land and capturing and executing pirate commanders.
Sid
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Sid »

Philip wrote:The idea is not to patrol endlesly,but to DESTROY the pirate havens.Once destroyed,they will find it more difficult to relocate and their very relocation will serve as a signal defeat.At the moment,there is strangely a lot of defeatist talk in the western media right now.The SU's range is the problem,they will need in-flight refuelling and cannot carry as much as the Bears built as long range bombers.This event also reminds one of the gaping hole in our LRMP capability due to paucity in numbers.The IN would do well to acquire more Tu-142s aand IL-38s as an interim measure and equip then with whatever is the best available ASW/ASuW and EW/ESM/NCW suite from diverse sources no matter what the cost.The P-8 still hasn't flown in its Mk1 version,.which will only be fitted with later build P-3 Orion eqpt.Interestingly,it ws not too long ago that Russia had a huge naval exercise in the IOR,off the very same African coast,where there was some joint exercises with India.In the Russian exercise,Blackjack and Bear bombers flying out of Russian bases,launched missiles at "targets" in the IOR.Russia has said that it is sending more naval warships to Somalia to prevent and defeat piracy.There is really only one way to end this piracy,by destroying their bases and infrastructure on land and capturing and executing pirate commanders.
Pirate heaven, terrorist heaven etc etc. different name same goal.

politically speaking, that area is a mess. If we go in, it will be a Iraq for us or for anyone. And then our opposing parties will also get involved citing some petty issue like we are occupiers or crime against Muslims.

There is a reason why no one wants to get their hands dirty with recent images of Iraq + Afghanistan still in their mind. Also its a costly business, no wonder Amrikies are trying to cash on it by authorizing Backwater in that region.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Singha »

a round trip test strike without indian side owning responsibilty by a small group of su30 using the sargeant fletcher
buddy refueling packs at night would be a good test for their endurance, navigation and targeting skills.

somalia has no ad to speak of and no means to deter airborne attack and there's nobody in middle of IOR to
track us. if a unkil cvn is cruising , just ask them to keep mum.

so basically a villa gets taken out in middle of night and nobody claims to know anything - this will spread lot
of fear in the pirate community.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Avid »

Japan, Korea, etc. sending in additional ships to help patrol is going to create a bigger risk of the naval forces from different countries unable to coordinate the response to SoS and worse hopefully not end up shooting at each other.

The absolute worse is the presence of armed private groups on international waters supposedly to protect client ships. Now, how is it that they will be distinguished from Pirates? And what if they get an itchy trigger finger and fire on naval helicopter on its way to help - just so that the private contractor has continuing business. Remember these private groups on international waters are going to be fielding much better weaponry, and training. And it is a matter of time before the pirates use their stash of cash to buy better weaponry and boats. Navies would be hard pressed to identify the differences - and it is going to create a freaking mess.


International Naval Forces should send clear signals:
1. No private armed groups roaming the seas. Any such group can expect to get shot upon if a navy ships spots ANY armed group at sea not on a legal naval ship. Blackwater, Somalis, Yemenis, any of them... there is little difference between private mercenary militia and pirates.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Rahul M »

a round trip test strike without indian side owning responsibilty by a small group of su30 using the sargeant fletcher
buddy refueling packs at night would be a good test for their endurance, navigation and targeting skills.

somalia has no ad to speak of and no means to deter airborne attack and there's nobody in middle of IOR to
track us. if a unkil cvn is cruising , just ask them to keep mum.

so basically a villa gets taken out in middle of night and nobody claims to know anything - this will spread lot
of fear in the pirate community.
huh ! our politicians would burst a vein even hearing of such haraam thoughts. :lol:

anyway, a better way of managing this menace would be to get a warship to prowl the waters around the home port for the length of the endurance of these fishing boats, which would be 40-45 days I guess. ask ships to be boarded on the way back and sink them if they don't comply or if guns are found on-board.
the best way to decimate a force is to control the choke-points.
the watch can be shared between 2 or more countries.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Avid »

Singha wrote:a round trip test strike without indian side owning responsibilty by a small group of su30 using the sargeant fletcher
buddy refueling packs at night would be a good test for their endurance, navigation and targeting skills.

somalia has no ad to speak of and no means to deter airborne attack and there's nobody in middle of IOR to
track us. if a unkil cvn is cruising , just ask them to keep mum.

so basically a villa gets taken out in middle of night and nobody claims to know anything - this will spread lot
of fear in the pirate community.
It will also spark a shoot-on-sight from pirates against any Indian sailors caught when they hijack a ship!

Perhaps the best way to deal with this is for all navies already deployed to increase their presence (much like the Russians have declared they would).
These navies need to be sanctioned by U.N. Security Council to take action - so that:

1. No single country ends up getting painted as the John Wayne of the open seas, and its citizens on the sea facing directed wrath as a means to forcing that country's population to force politicians to back out [remember Kandahar?]

2. Sanction from U.N. Sec Council would put these guys under a naval peace keeping force role - that establishes a command and control for all. In the mean time, if it is a few countries' navies in the region they can coordinate well despite increasing their presence.

3. There will have to be sustained enforcement, and combine it with choking off the activities on the coast to prevent resurgence. The $100s of millions already collected ought to be enough for them to lay low for decades.

4. Sooner rather than later, expect Al Qaeda or other groups affiliated with it to show up on the coast and take over these operations. It is the best financing schemes for variety of operations. Money is very attractive, easy, and fyi there is chance to take out a few Kufr naval ships! And with the money you are likely to see the piracy spread to coasts of other poorer countries in the neighborhood as well as S. E. Asia where they have scope and hope of doing this.

5. Reduction in high-seas piracy accompanied with potentially on-shore operations much like proposed by Russia - ought to help. That would help establish a UN Peacekeeping force along the Somali coast - may be help in longer term to turn the country around.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Philip »

Please,no Iraq misadventure for us intended! The idea is for air and naval strikes,not ground occupying forces,to sanitise the Somalian pirate havens. What the west is doing at the moment is endless debate about not trying to storm th Sirius because of danger to crew,etc.If Maggie Thatcher were in No.10 not Gordo Brown,she would've ordered the RN to go into action immediately! Let's see who will join us in a joint strike.If not,then we take action ourselves with the least goal of making the pirates forget ever about attacking an Indian MV.

Interesting thought in the last post about trying out the SUs with Buddy packs.Since we have a good relationship with Oman,the aircraft could land there after a strike,though the Bears are the best option,flying to the Somalian coast and back without refuelling.Another option.Launch an Agni-3+ missile!
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by harbans »

There is really only one way to end this piracy,by destroying their bases and infrastructure on land and capturing and executing pirate commanders.

Been hearing this last 2 days a bit, more so from the Russian side. However the Pirate infrastructure and bases are not on land. They operate months on end from "mother ships' one of which the IN destroyed. On land they just buy houses, cars and ferry favors with the warlords.

To finish this firstly one does'nt have to be despondent.

1. It's to integrate warships with helicopters in particular regions with directed communication from ships which are under threat and response capabilities within 10-15 minutes for that region.

2. Then interception and interrogation of suspect vessels in the vicinity. In case of hostility to disable vessel and capture pirates without causing eco disaster from the vessel.

3. Do the above on a sustained basis, making piracy a costly and deadly profession for those who chose it.

The IN has commenced on 1 and 2 now. Number 3 remains.

Then the options to take if laden LNG/ Super tankers are hijacked, should involve p[ossible commando style boarding in case of danger of eco terrorism (blowing apart/ spilling cargo etc).

The piracy industry these parts has gone up primarily due to the very easy work and high rewards when there is absolutely no policing at all. So let the IN get on the beat in that region and continue doing what it is doing. It's a matter of time that the pirates get vanquished.

JMT.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Singha »

[a] in this global economic downturn nobody has the money to be policing such a vast area on
sustained basis
if you really read my post, I said India should selectively target pirate leader villas but not
claim any responsibility, always string at dawh and flying awa over the sea.
[c] a land strike can only contain issue not solve it.

unless the UN authorizes a strong amphibious attack on the main pirate ports, Blackwater
is the only option left for ship owners.

and knowing the kind of people they employ there is gong to be plenty of shooting involved.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by harbans »

I don't really buy this striking land targets. How many mother ships do the Somali operate. The number won't be more than 5 or 6 max. They park themselves deep at sea along standard routes taken by ships. They have fast boats for the purpose of boarding target vessels. Take out the mother ships and the pirates can't operate 20 miles of the Somalian coast. The mothership is stocked with looted diesel, food, satellite phones and stuff to sustain themselves for months. They don't need to go to Somalia for any infrastructural needs. They go their only with the hijacked ships into it's territorial waters.

India has already destroyed i would say 20% of the pirate fleet. 80% to go.
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Re: INS Tabar nails pirate ship (sort of)

Post by Kersi D »

Tanaji wrote:How long before the likes of Arundhoti Roy start denouncing this as Indian imperialism against Somali territory and the assorted rest claiming that this is an action against Muslims?
I do not think that a learned person like Arundhati Roy would say such a thing.

Yes But soon there will be a number of "religious leaders and gurus", in India and abroad and Middle East who will say that "Innocent Muslims are being killed in high seas".

But

1) Do not underestimate these rogues. Remember USS Cole. Perhaps they have the blessings of AQ and other vermin.

2) No IN vessel should berth in any port in that region. We should send INS Deepak or INS Shakti for on-sea replenishment

3) Do not take prisoners. What will we do with the pirate prisoners ? Try them under IPC XYZW ? Then a smart ass lawyer will come the try and twist the story.

4) Try to locate and destroy their bases. As Philip has suggested we must be having quite a few Styx / P 15 anti ship missiles in stock. Let us send say our "Godavari" and "Veer" class ships for some target practice

Regards
Kersi

PS. It would be a fanastic show of force if we

1) Send a TU 142 on an unarmed recce, take some pics of their land bases

2) Send a few SU 30MKI on a armed recce, with cluster bombs. Send our IL 78 to mid sea for a IFR
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Rahul M »

simply couldn't resist !
I do not think that a learned person like Arundhati Roy would say such a thing.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
you don't know much about her do you ?

edit: firmly with harbans BTW.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Singha »

any trawler of the 100s that fish legitimately from Somali coast could be a mothership! all ships have diesel, food, medical stuff,
speedboat/zodiac, VHF radios.

there is no black skull and crossbones flag flying to tell people which is trawler and which is mothership

take an area 1000km x 1000km and try tracking and searching these trawlers on a continuous basis.
even the entire LPD fleet of USN will go home tired.

kill the heads of the hydra and the tail will collapse.

plus even it doesnt have an impact still a realistic and superb deep strike exercise for our IAF. marcos could
creep ashore from chariots and laser designate from ground or do a "vympel" style kidnap raid on some
unhappy warlord
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by gogna »

Image
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by NRao »

Do not worry. Islamists will do what no other has done. They are slowly taking over Somalia - again. And, this piracy will stop.

Sending ships, etc is a joke and a waste of resources.

Send that Sea Horse for a trial run along the coast of Somalia.
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Kersi D »

Rahul M wrote:simply couldn't resist !
I do not think that a learned person like Arundhati Roy would say such a thing.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
you don't know much about her do you ?

edit: firmly with harbans BTW.
Rahul

Watch out

You will land up with a serious tummy upset !!!
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Re: INS Tabar destroys pirate mothership

Post by Dilbu »

For a start, navies can take offensive action by being actively on the look out for pirates instead of just patrolling and firing off warning shots as and when they encounter these thugs. The pirates should think twice before they take to waters, even after having the daily dosage of Khat. :roll:
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