Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

[shyamal]

Hmm...So, some people here (and other places like twitter, offices) are saying, in coming days many would start losing patience. If this is the level of patience and attitude that our countrymen have - "I don't care, do whatever it takes, just don't trouble me..", then I don't think we will ever improve as a country/Society.

I don't think any white color worker who has a credit card has been seriously inconvenienced at all. I don't pay any attention to any whining from them.

Especially when the lower strata folks are showing far more understanding and co-operation in the situation and willing to go cashless, .....

Its the lower strata folks I am talking about. they have enthusiastically supported it at cost of inconvenience and uncertainty. And they cannot go cashless(atleast a vast majority of them) within 2 weeks. It these people who will suffer if things don't improve by next week.

Is it that difficult to understand?

[JayS]

OK please give your nuanced opinion on how spending some money by cash is different than spending the exact same money by debit card..??

Cash in your hand is different from cash in your bank.

Cash in the bank means you are a creditor of the bank and thus depends on the vargaries of the financial system.

Cash in your hand makes you a creditor of the financial system.

If a government decides to double the money supply, the cash in your hand gives you a higher buying power than a debit card because if the trust in the system is broken, the people will accept paper in extremis rather than a claim in the system. Exters inverse pyramid explains this concept.

Accepted, but this sounds like doom's day scenario to me. I don't think its relevant to context of my question. I am assuming a normal day-to-day life scenario.

[abhijitm]

It has been just 9 days. Even a war last more than that. And people are losing patience! I have requested my company to give salary advance in cash to those in need. Central government is now giving salary advance. If this is followed then many people will get instant relief. There could be many workarounds to a problem, just need will power to get through it. I think people is small towns & villages are showing more resilience than urban crowd.

[abhijitm]

If the exchange limit is reduced to 2000 then does that indicate the deadline of exchange will be extended?

[shyamal]

I think people is small towns & villages are showing more resilience than urban crowd.

Small town and rural areas work with small denomination and with credit in most purchases. Also close knit communities help each other. So they are not effected so much. Till now.

[Paul]

Went to Absolute BBQ for lunch. Place choc a block with youngsters having a good time.

All the reports of frustruation and anger we are getting is from urban areas ( again monopolized by Delhi). Need more eyewitness reports from NE, UP/BH and other states.

People are sanguine and are waiting for crisis to blow over. Some eateries and stores with card facilities sometimes stop them for a day or so to collect cash to pay their suppliers. Lost 300 Rs to Adigas.

[JayS]

Hmm...So, some people here (and other places like twitter, offices) are saying, in coming days many would start losing patience. If this is the level of patience and attitude that our countrymen have - "I don't care, do whatever it takes, just don't trouble me..", then I don't think we will ever improve as a country/Society.

I don't think any white color worker who has a credit card has been seriously inconvenienced at all. I don't pay any attention to any whining from them.

Especially when the lower strata folks are showing far more understanding and co-operation in the situation and willing to go cashless, .....

Its the lower strata folks I am talking about. they have enthusiastically supported it at cost of inconvenience and uncertainty. And they cannot go cashless(atleast a vast majority of them) within 2 weeks. It these people who will suffer if things don't improve by next week.

Is it that difficult to understand?

The post was not directed to you specifically or what you said. And its easier to help the small folks if the entire society gives helping hand. As such the money they handle is quite less.

I am not going to ATM just so I do not take share of money that could be much more useful for someone else. I see many folks, particularly bachelor folks in my area who are quite well educated and can easily handle all card transactions taking out cash to the limit from ATM (and in my place there is literally nothing that you cannot buy without card. May be you have to buy at least Rs 100+ stuff at a time. But that's that). Why the hell these people have to go to ATMs and withdraw 4k or whatever amount and seat on that cash while some other who is really in need would be left wanting for money..?? Can't people think such simple thing and act accordingly?? One reason for cash crunch is now many people are seating on 2k/4k cash which they normally would not have withheld. There is this hoarding mentality in us Indians when we sense trouble. Its a good habit otherwise but in such scenarios it becomes very problematic.

[shyamal]

If the exchange limit is reduced to 2000 then does that indicate the deadline of exchange will be extended?

My guess - once the lines decrease to normal(or upto 2X normal) ie the "real" people have deposited/withdrawn - then this limit will be increased again.

It has been temporarily decreased to remove the "rent a exchanger" BM holders for the next 1-2 weeks from the bank queues.

But that's just my guess.

[rvishwakarm]

Hmm...So, some people here (and other places like twitter, offices) are saying, in coming days many would start losing patience. If this is the level of patience and attitude that our countrymen have - "I don't care, do whatever it takes, just don't trouble me..", then I don't think we will ever improve as a country/Society. In fact to me, we don't deserve any better than what we have today. People would suffer due to corruption for entire lives, but wouldn't show patience for few months or years if all out war comes against corruption..?? To remove the menace of corruption from India, it will take a revolution on grand scale, something like Freedom Fight. And revolutions don't happen without sacrifices.

Its a big shame on the part of citizens to whine for such small cost for long term gain. Thank god our soldiers don't lose patience in a week or so standing on the borders in some of the toughest conditions in the world for the country. And back at home people cannot even co-operate for 50 days..?? And then same people who are talking about losing patience, talk about how country should go to War with pakis every other days, without thinking what cost soldiers or people on borders will have to pay for that. Especially when the lower strata folks are showing far more understanding and co-operation in the situation and willing to go cashless, so called educated folks in white collar jobs/businesses whine about everything. Appalling and shameful behaviour I would say.

I am afraid, one day we will have to say - "Modi deserved to be India's PM, but Indians didn't deserve Modi as their PM..."

And the same people talk about having a war with Pakistan, if they cannot bear this, a war would be worse. I wonder on what confidence in people of this country we want to teach Pak a lesson, But whatever its worth, haven't met with anyone complaining about this in my area Andheri East (Mumbai). From Pan shop guys to auto wala to veggie vendor, college prof, ITVity colleagues, office boy, kirana store owner/helpers are part of my survey sample and nobody is complaining. Most of the news channels are focussed on NCR areas and they keep on showing long queues, fact is queue size has decreased considerably for the 7-8 banks i see on the way to office( not one having more than 25-20 people) and some branches are close to slums nearby even then there is no crowding.

[habal]

http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ ... LfnSO.html

Bank manager in Rohtak dies in office after spending three days at work
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times, Rohtak| Updated: Nov 17, 2016 13:22 IST

A 56-year-old bank manager in Haryana died of a massive heart attack after spending three frantic days serving hundreds of customers following the government’s shock withdrawal of high-value currency.

Police say Rajesh Kumar, the manager of Rohtak’s Cooperative Bank, was found dead in his chamber on Wednesday morning after spending three nights in the office because of the increased work load.

...

“Due to increased work-load, Kumar had been sleeping in his office from the past three days. His family said he was on medications for heart disease,” Shivaji colony police station in-charge Neeraj Kumar said. Work at the bank has been suspended.

When a security guard reached the bank on Wednesday morning, he knocked at the manager’s office door but got no reply. He alerted other employees who called in the police, who broke the door to find him dead.

The police said Kumar belonged to Gurgaon and is survived by his wife and two children.

[shyamal]

I am not going to ATM just so I do not take share of money that could be much more useful for someone else. I see many folks, particularly bachelor folks in my area who are quite well educated and can easily handle all card transactions taking out cash to the limit from ATM (and in my place there is literally nothing that you cannot buy without card. May be you have to buy at least Rs 100+ stuff at a time. But that's that). Why the hell these people have to go to ATMs and withdraw 4k or whatever amount and seat on that cash while some other who is really in need would be left wanting for money..?? .

These people vex me too.
I am living mainly on credit cards at present. But I feel uncomfortable as I am not spending cash in the local-level economy.
I withdrew from ATM on Tuesday. Purely opportunistic - I did not queue. I was shopping(with cash) in a local shop and saw cash being loaded in an ATM opposite. Just 4-5 people waiting.

As soon as I withdrew cash I spent about 25% of it in local shops(who are going through seriously depressed sales).

Hoarding cash(whatever they are getting through bank or ATM) by the middle class is compounding the problem.

[Prem Kumar]

And as per him, starting 1990 onwards pretty much every major land deal in cities like Bangalore and its suburbs had some sort of illegality in it. May be in the old layouts of Jaya nagar etc. things may have been on proper records.

I can guarantee that 95%+ real estate transactions in TN have at least some element of black money. The land value on which you pay taxes (called "guidance value") is always lower than the selling price. The difference is paid in black. Its so normal that 95% of the population buying/selling real estate knowingly participate in it. We have no right to talk about "others hoarding black money" when we do the same.

What Modi-Ji is doing is giving chemo-treatment to the moral cancer in our society. I am hopeful that the patient will survive. Modi-Ji might pay the price - will be tragic if he does

[rvishwakarm]

http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ ... LfnSO.html

Bank manager in Rohtak dies in office after spending three days at work
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times, Rohtak| Updated: Nov 17, 2016 13:22 IST

A 56-year-old bank manager in Haryana died of a massive heart attack after spending three frantic days serving hundreds of customers following the government’s shock withdrawal of high-value currency.

Police say Rajesh Kumar, the manager of Rohtak’s Cooperative Bank, was found dead in his chamber on Wednesday morning after spending three nights in the office because of the increased work load.

...

“Due to increased work-load, Kumar had been sleeping in his office from the past three days. His family said he was on medications for heart disease,” Shivaji colony police station in-charge Neeraj Kumar said. Work at the bank has been suspended.

When a security guard reached the bank on Wednesday morning, he knocked at the manager’s office door but got no reply. He alerted other employees who called in the police, who broke the door to find him dead.

The police said Kumar belonged to Gurgaon and is survived by his wife and two children.

Salute to the guy who was serving the country in spite of his medical condition. But haven't we heard of people dying of heart attack while watching a close Ind-Pak cricket match??? It might sound rude but death happens all the time in country as big as ours, just because a person is a banker, or nearby a bank doesn't means is dying due to Demonetisation. And we need to be careful with these media reports, TOILet was into false reporting into this king last week only.
By the way SBI and other PSU banks have roped in some retired bankers to help them out.

[GShankar]

And as per him, starting 1990 onwards pretty much every major land deal in cities like Bangalore and its suburbs had some sort of illegality in it. May be in the old layouts of Jaya nagar etc. things may have been on proper records.

I can guarantee that 95%+ real estate transactions in TN have at least some element of black money. The land value on which you pay taxes (called "guidance value") is always lower than the selling price. The difference is paid in black. Its so normal that 95% of the population buying/selling real estate knowingly participate in it. We have no right to talk about "others hoarding black money" when we do the same.

What Modi-Ji is doing is giving chemo-treatment to the moral cancer in our society. I am hopeful that the patient will survive. Modi-Ji might pay the price - will be tragic if he does

When we bought land and constructed house in Vijayanagar in bangalore, kerala in 2002, had to pay 60% in cash. The registration value was only 40% of that total value of transaction.

about the 95% in TN, it is probably the case in rest of india also.

Modi will survive this. All he has to do is - in 6 months time, show that the prices have decreased for some (or many) commodities, a couple of high profile arrests. The mangoes will be happy. And that is why, the timing is important. Still have 2 more years to complete the script for next elections.

[SBajwa]

Last time I was in India I could not withdrew money more than Rs 50,000., as they wanted PAN card. I am a US citizen and I got my PAN card last month as I have property to take care of in India. It is very easy to get PAN card. All I did was send photocopies of my passport, USA drivers license along with 2 pictures and a filled out form to a company in Gurgaon. For $40.00 they did everything and I got the PAN card directly mailed over to my house here in USA. All NRIs should get PAN card as fast as possible.

[JayS]

What Modi-Ji is doing is giving chemo-treatment to the moral cancer in our society. I am hopeful that the patient will survive. Modi-Ji might pay the price - will be tragic if he does

Exactly, its like a hard slap on someone who is in deep slumber. The move was aimed to shake up the system. To his credit Modi tried various things to give a way out to BM hoarders. And he said much before 30th Sept, that I will do anything after 30th Sept, don't blame me later. Similarly he has hinted at benami properties. Clever ones should take a lesson from past.

Now that the shake up has happened, people will be far more willing to switch to cashless transactions. What would have taken years otherwise, will now happen in months. Only thing is GOI needs to facilitate the transition properly. And it was a signal too, to those who were not taking Modi seriously so far. Now if he offers amnesty scheme, much more takers will be found. Sometimes I think, Modi should offer Income declaration scheme again with 50-60% tax only for mid-level fish say less than 1Cr.

[shyamal]

This video of Vivek debroy is good. I don't remember if it has been posted here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q27tsbSileE

[shiv]

An OT question ... why is it that most of the anti-India, anti-Hinduism crusaders both with in India and many times outside have Bengali sounding names ?. Is that certain culture .. a culture with serious inferiority complex in present modern day India ?.

First to come in contact with the brutards and hence the longest under their spell (Inferiority of Indian culture/society). Kolkatta was the capital before Delhi. Heavy dose of Marxist philosophy.

Taken together *can* (i.e in some folks) create one of the most vicious mix the most self loathing individuals. JNU is the most recent place for turning out such cretins (Credit Praveen Swami; I first heard that word from him)

There are two sets of people who became most Anglicized - the Bengali elite and a section of Tamilian brahmins. Exactly the two places from where the Brits spread in "Madras" and "Calcutta" with their maritime power. Don't forget people like Tunku Varadarajan, Nandini Sundar (JNU/Maoists), Mani Shankar Aiyer, Malini Parthasarathy, Ramchandra Guha etc. But don't forget that there are also a huge crowd on the opposite side from both communities.

[Chandragupta]

We Indians have become like bhed bakri, need a shepherd with a big danda to make us walk in line. Modi ji is that shepherd. 90% of our population is complicit in making this country what it is today.

[d_berwal]

Can you please give an example of a person who might resort to any violence... of course, other than the guys with the black money.

Most small businesses of non-essential goods(corner stationary shop, sweet shop, tiny garment shops, flower stalls, fruit stall, roadside eateries) are seeing 70 to 80% drop in sales. They are weathering through as they assumed that this will be a 2 week pain and around 24th Nov everything will be back to normal. How long do you thing they can sustain? Another week - if the stall owner does not earn anything then he cannot pay his employee any wage. They do not have any cushion left. After that either they starve or they loot.

i stay in outskirts of NCR and what i have seen:

- shop owners with current account are still accepting 500/1000 rs notes as they are confident they can get the money changed with back dated receipts. In fact lots of small shop owners in first 3-4 days made what they were making in 1-2 months or more. Now i have seen a decline in this practice.
- plus they all have 2-3 guys employed with them, now most of them are standing in line to get 4000k changed till today. (and they were just shifting line in banks.)
- I went to bank (kotak small branch with 3 rooms)on 10th and the waiting was not more than 3hr for conversion and i saw a different line for account holders in that bank, so withdrawal and deposit took me 20 min max both in same time. I took out 10000 with check and deposited 8000 i had taked out on 7th through ATM. .

Those selling essential commodities like vegetables, groceries are basically giving credit to their customers. They too have assumed the liquidity crunch to be for 2 weeks.

- sorry i have seen a different picture:

--- yes credit is given only to known customers.

- If you go with currency other than 500/1000 one can buy and get change. Only thing is if some uses 500/1000 note they are saying no change available, but if you give 2000 Rs note and buy 250Rs or 300Rs worth you get change. Since 500/1000Rs note in not a legal tender they and cannot accept it and cant giving change for it but accepting it without change .

They cannot sustain any longer. And no - in lower income areas the shops are not going to convert to credit cards as none of their customers have credit card. My driver and security guard is never going to qualify for one. What happens when those groceries down their shutter next wednesday?

- My maid (cook) has a bank account but not card but i haven't seen her crib till yet. She has a JDY account. Till today she only stood in line once 2 hr to convert.

- most of the daily wage workers are actually earning more now. My neighbor is from business family (shops) they have employed daily wagers @ 300Rs per 4000/4500 rs conversion till today and they were barging about it.

- I have seen many small shops using ezswype (no need of a card) 1 ppl beauty parlor, pvt doctor, small grossry etc. and see a really surge i was surprised, as i paid for my SHQ's beauty parlor.

- My other maid is a Bangladeshi, she gave me back monthly salary i gave her on 9th in 500Rs. I told her gove me 15-20 days to give it back she took back the half salary and is ok to Waite till 30 dec.

Don't you think looting is a real possibility?

Riots have not started till now because politicians do not have the ready cash right now to start one. After next week you will not need a politician to start one.

- I only see 3 states where there is a possibility of riot.
-- Bengal
-- Delhi
-- Kerela

and Presidents rule is the right tool to use if these state govts cant cooperate[/quote]

I am wholeheartedly in favor of this move. I am completely in support for restricting cash transactions above Rs 5000. I just think it will be completely counter-productive to restrict low-denomination liquidity. The whole scheme will lose public support very fast if people have to suffer longer. Even the staunchest supporters are growing tired.

there is NO restriction on using low-denomination liquidity if you transact in same means. Buy of 20 rs pay 100rs you get change. Buy of 200rs and pay by 2000rs get change.

[/quote]

BTW - I have not suffered at all as I can do almost everything by credit cards. But over the last 1 week I have purchased almost exclusively from the supermarket and not patronized the local small shops that I usually spend money in.

i am in sales so i travel and am also a smoker so i need to smoke and buy it from nukkad/pan-tapri

- i am able to do it without more that 5% change in my behavior.

- I have not used my CC any more than regular normal use.

[nandakumar]

Endorse Supratik. As crises go this is nothing compared to what i had to go through last December at the time of the great floods in Chennai. Rains had ceased after unrelenting fury for five days. I remember responding to a Vina post then on something related to the Indian economy where I said, "I wish I could respond in detail but right now I am struggling with no electricity and drinking water down to the last coupke of litres of water." We survived then. We will survive this quite easily. Actually, I can say that things are totally normal in Chennai on the banking front as of now.
Edited later. Sorry, I should have said SaraLax as it was his post I was responding to.

[svinayak]

First to come in contact with the brutards and hence the longest under their spell (Inferiority of Indian culture/society). Kolkatta was the capital before Delhi. Heavy dose of Marxist philosophy.

Taken together *can* (i.e in some folks) create one of the most vicious mix the most self loathing individuals. JNU is the most recent place for turning out such cretins (Credit Praveen Swami; I first heard that word from him) ....

There are two sets of people who became most Anglicized - the Bengali elite and a section of Tamilian brahmins. Exactly the two places from where the Brits spread in "Madras" and "Calcutta" with their maritime power. Don't forget people like Tunku Varadarajan, Nandini Sundar (JNU/Maoists), Mani Shankar Aiyer, Malini Parthasarathy, Ramchandra Guha etc. But don't forget that there are also a huge crowd on the opposite side from both communities.

The longer the British contact with the Indians in a particular region the more western ideas in that region. Bengal has the longest presence of British in India. Also it is pointer to the most poor region of India due to longest exploitation.

The changes in Europe from 1900 with Marxism and class struggle was injected into Bengal. Also the partition of Bengal in 1905 created the faultline inside the Indian society which created Pakistan in 1947. Indian society has not yet recovered from the British interference inside Indian society.

After Independence Indian colonized leaders followed the same path of western intellectual thought without bringing the Indian traditions into the education and media. After 1971 Indian nationalism was suppressed and leftist rebel movement was encouraged. JNU was encouraged to generate leftist leadership and a leftist narrative of India creating break India movements.

[vina]

. Don't forget people like Tunku Varadarajan, Nandini Sundar (JNU/Maoists), Mani Shankar Aiyer, Malini Parthasarathy, Ramchandra Guha etc.

Gulp ! Me too. A card carrying , beef eating member of the tribe ! Nnah.. I don't eat that stuff in India. Don't send the police, moral or otherwise after me!)

[Yugandhar]

Wondering how to catch those repeatedly visiting banks to exchange old notes for others or for themselves??

Is it technically feasible to track mobile phones and if repeatedly geo-located to banks on multiple days, so that these people can be interrogated unless they are bank staff. Is mobile phone tracking accurate to place them within 5 mtrs radius? I know given a number the phone can be tracked but can the inverse be done where you check for numbers present in a given location?
This can avoid the inefficiencies of indelible ink and also look back into time if telephone companies have data from past week.

[sanjayc]

Clicked this today on the street near my house - how fast Indians are adopting to Modinomics

[Rahul M]

went to deal with the banking system for the first time since demon. IOW I survived for 10 odd days with just the 3-400 cash in 100 I had on 8th.
In between I have been to kolkata & back and ran around the city all day while there.

the PSU bank ATM had a small crowd of 10-12 people. unfortunately the bank guys had goofed up and the upper limit per transaction was set at 200/- in stead of 2000. withdrew 1200/-, which should last for the month hopefully.

even my local hole in the wall chinese eatery suddenly has an order online option on zomato.

[Sicanta]

I am not going to ATM just so I do not take share of money that could be much more useful for someone else. I see many folks, particularly bachelor folks in my area who are quite well educated and can easily handle all card transactions taking out cash to the limit from ATM (and in my place there is literally nothing that you cannot buy without card. May be you have to buy at least Rs 100+ stuff at a time. But that's that). Why the hell these people have to go to ATMs and withdraw 4k or whatever amount and seat on that cash while some other who is really in need would be left wanting for money..?? .

These people vex me too.
I am living mainly on credit cards at present. But I feel uncomfortable as I am not spending cash in the local-level economy.
I withdrew from ATM on Tuesday. Purely opportunistic - I did not queue. I was shopping(with cash) in a local shop and saw cash being loaded in an ATM opposite. Just 4-5 people waiting.

As soon as I withdrew cash I spent about 25% of it in local shops(who are going through seriously depressed sales).

Hoarding cash(whatever they are getting through bank or ATM) by the middle class is compounding the problem.

True, many in my group and family just dont want to shift to cards or any digital app. I try to use cards infront of them to show how easy and safe it is. But no, for them cash is what one can hold in hand.

Best is to target purchases at specific places like ecomm sites or high and medium range shops/restaurants. Stop COD.
.............................
I had to visit State bank of patiala atm today for my parents. Malya's debt writeoff was the rage. And guess who was abusing the gov and how it is only poor suffering while rich are let off. A doctor, from varanasi, standing in the queue, probably private practice from what i could gather. Shutting him down was a very nice feeling.

[Sachin]

Okay. Updates on my journey back from office at around 2000Hrs. From what I could figure out, the money distribution seems to have a pattern. Today there were no queues in any ATMs in around the first 4kms on the route from office. Need to cross a one street town, where I saw two ATMs fully functional. One I was getting readied, and had around 20 folks. The other one was operational and had around 40 people in line. Beyond that saw a queue in another intersection around 8kms away. The bars near my home seemed to be really empty today, which meant that the folks have no cash to spare. Yesterday it was more crowded. These places do accept cards, but their usual patrons do not have that.

At SHQs branch the much promised Rs.500 notes nor the indelible ink came in. The stuffed their ATM with Rs.100 notes. Even today there were people coming repeatedly to do the currency exchange. Around 10 of them were chased away. The marker pens purchased in the morning did not have any effect as it was very easy to remove the marking. By around 1400Hrs the branch ran out of cash for further transactions. She pegs around 4lakhs of currency was "exchanged" today. Yesterday it was around 8lakh. No body seems to be interested in getting the currency exchanged using accounts, or for that matter opening fresh accounts (enquiries it seems was less than 20 so far).

[Deans]

I saw a jawan standing in line trying to get some cash , he was saying that he got limited time off in a day and how difficult it was to get cash

I wish the govt can make sufficient cash available to our armed forces and open special bank counters etc within army bases to distribute cash on an expedited basis

True. I had suggested this to PMO (all Pay offices of the services be used to exchange / withdraw/ deposit money and old notes accepted in
military canteens. Also, all Central PSU's should have the ability to allow employees to withdraw / exchange cash.

[Chandragupta]

- My other maid is a Bangladeshi, she gave me back monthly salary i gave her on 9th in 500Rs. I told her gove me 15-20 days to give it back she took back the half salary and is ok to Waite till 30 dec.

Fire her? Replace her with an Indian?
__________________

It is one thing to 'celebrate' small vendors going on PayTM but I deem it absolutely unnecessary and forced behaviour. I am afraid instead of talking about real avenues of creation of BM hereafter, we are busy missing the forest for grass blades. Every Indian transacting via a platform funded by CPC backed Alibaba is hardly something to be proud of. Either GoI/RBI comes up with a single UPI app or leave enough cash to continue low value transaction (<20k).

[hanumadu]

Some people here need to come out of their air conditioned IT vity bubble. 100% cashless? PAN number for above Rs.500 transactions?! People here saying that all kind of workers and labour can be paid via cheque!

Cash will never go out in India. We need to work within realistic constraints and prevent further generation of BM.

When people here are saying cash less, I don't they mean literally 100% cashless. I thought that was obvious. They mean a much smaller share of cash transactions. It is assumed most small transactions will be cash based and the share of cash decreases as amount increases. Why can't workers and labour be paid with check or some other electronic means? Why are you underestimating their intelligence to take a check and deposit in a bank or manage an electronic transaction? What purpose are the JDY and rupay card for? We might not have carried out that exercise as well.
While most businesses seem to have taken to electronic payments in the wake of this exercise with gusto, we are expressing our doubts in their ability and intelligence to make such a shift.

[Chandragupta]

In my experience, all workers, daily wage earners & labourers will adamantly refuse any kind of payment via any other means but cash. None of them have the time to line up at the bank when they need to work 10 hours 6-7 days a week to earn livelihood. I am not talking about maids & cooks but industrial labour. Most people here have hardly dealt with such people. Most have no idea how SME sector works. Very few companies have full time employees (at least not all of their workforce), they also get workers on a per day basis. Do you think such people will go every day to submit a 500 rupee cheque?

[hanumadu]

If Modi loses elections, then next govt coming in can study this in detail and do another demonitisation giving special focus on BJP run states and curtailing supply of new currency in those specific states. This present discrimination is resulting in economic throttling or if it stretches for longer periods even fiscal blackmail in non-BJP states.

Right now ₹500 only launched in aryavart of MP, MH & dilli (to some extent unavoidable). Rest are mlechchas or outliers who cannot be trusted.

Rumour mongering. Admins please note. Reporting this post.

[ShauryaT]

Right intent, wrong steps and execution. Pretty much sums up, how i feel about this move. Well, still let us see what the next steps are.

Committing Suicide Also Radical, Says Arun Shourie On Notes Ban

New Delhi: Former Disinvestment Minister Arun Shourie has strongly criticised the government's decision to ban 500 and 1000 rupee notes, saying while the stated objective may be good, the idea was not well thought out.

In an exclusive interview to NDTV, Mr Shourie said the government had not anticipated the distress that would be caused by doing "away with 85% of Indian currency."

"Small and medium enterprises, the transport sector, the entire agricultural sector...I can't reach six lakh villages," he said, adding, "They did not think about this? It is about being carried away by a big idea, getting into a self-image that I have to do some surgical strike. Therefore every week you see them saying - its been a week, a month, I have to do something."

When asked if he thought it was a bold and radical move by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Mr Shourie said, "jumping in the well is also very radical, committing suicide is also radical...if you want to make a beginning, make a beginning on reforming the tax administration."

The former minister, who has been critical of PM Modi in the past, said he did not think the cash clean-up would get to the heart of the black or untaxed money problem. "People who hold this black money or black assets don't hold it in cash...they are not going to put their money under the mattress...they are holding it abroad, and there also they are not dollars, in gunnybags. It is property, jewelry, maybe other assets which we don't know about, maybe stock markets," he said.

What was needed, he said, was strict and fair enforcement. "Then you will be acting against the bribe taker and bribe giver. But if you let disproportionate assets cases fall through because you don't present evidence, you are doing nothing on the Vyapam scam, you are doing nothing on the Sarada scam, the Narada scam, you let Hasan Ali go, nothing happened, Moin Qureshi goes away, Vijay Mallya is saying bye bye, Lalit Modi keeps sitting outside, then what will the officer think?"

Mr Shourie, who was a union minister in the BJP-led government of Atal Bihari Vajpayee, said he did not think India was ready to move to becoming a cashless economy. "I have been writing on it for 35 years and I am all for it but this is the not the way to go about it," he said.

[Rishi Verma]

In my experience...

Workers can get paid by e-transfer. They can and do use ATM machines. Cheque doesn't even come in the picture. How much did you lose.

[Chandragupta]

Arun Shourie is just butthurt and hates Modi for no reason. But NaMo must also not leave the big fishes - Mamta, Vadra, Hasan Ali, Qureshi & Mallya etc..Now that Mamta, Khujli and Pappu have been exposed in public, he should push for prosecution.

[habal]

Rumour mongering. Admins please note. Reporting this post.

I have reported this post for baseless accusation and lack of forum etiquette.

[Yayavar]

. Don't forget people like Tunku Varadarajan, Nandini Sundar (JNU/Maoists), Mani Shankar Aiyer, Malini Parthasarathy, Ramchandra Guha etc.

Gulp ! Me too. A card carrying , beef eating member of the tribe ! Nnah.. I don't eat that stuff in India. Don't send the police, moral or otherwise after me!)

/OT: why? you can near shoolay circle in nimma bengaluru Am sure there are other places too

[R_Kumar]

Report from ground in Noida.

Finally after waiting for more than a week, I decided to visit a bank. Guard told me to come after 2:00PM since they stop exchanging money after that and only entertain people with accounts in bank.

Went there at 3:00. about 20 people were in queue before me. Still took an hour to withdraw cash as they had only 1 counter. BTW, the bank was IndusInd.

Same building hosts 7-8 different bank branches. ICICI and HDFC has max number of people in queue (more than 50). Kotak Mahindra, YES, Bank Of Baroda and Syndicate each had about 20-30 people in queues.

I'm my small town, even in normal time I always see 10-20 people in line no matter what.

[Chandragupta]

^^ Workers can get paid by e-transfer. They can and do use ATM machines. Cheque doesn't even come in the picture. How much did you lose.

I'm sharing my experience & talking about allowing small cash transactions and you accuse me of being a BM hoarder? Do you think (assuming that I am a BM hoarder) I will make up my 1000000000000000000000 crores loss by stealing 20k from each worker?