Indian Railways Thread

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 02 Jul 2014 21:41

Delhi to Agra in 90 mins? Railways to test 160-kmph train

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... mph-train/

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jul 2014 01:57

Don't they wash these trains everyday. How come this leak was not revealed till now? But yes this Chinese maal never seems to work out in India.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jul 2014 10:34

Theo_Fidel wrote:Don't they wash these trains everyday.

I don't think so the trains gets washed every day. In fact employees crib that they don't get much time to even do basic cleaning stuff before the coaches are put back for the run. Due to paucity of coaches, railways depend upon the RSA - "Rake sharing arrangements". This is to ensure that coaches do not remain idle, and are on the move. For example there is a passenger train running between Dharmapuri & Bangalore. It leaves DPJ early in the morning, and reaches SBC before the office timings. The return trip may be later in the evening. So IR decides that this same set of coaches (rake) can have a quick run to Tumkur and back (with two different train numbers). What happens here is that the cleaning staff would not get much time to do a good job. RSAs are there for Express & Mail trains as well.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 03 Jul 2014 10:36

^^^ The capacity of coach making factories needs to be doubled. The Bombardier factory in Gujarat should be invited to make these type of coaches too. Private sector needs to be involved.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 03 Jul 2014 10:57

IR should look at the coaches of kolkata metro now that it is in control of that metro. One of the trains got stuck in a tunnel for 1 hour with passengers. The new AC rakes are modifications of EMU dabbas prone to breakdown. KM trains need a complete overhaul. Throw out the ICF dabbas and invite tenders for modern rakes. The people of kolkata will thank the BJP Govt.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 03 Jul 2014 14:03

SanjayC wrote:^^^ The capacity of coach making factories needs to be doubled. The Bombardier factory in Gujarat should be invited to make these type of coaches too. Private sector needs to be involved.

Companies are Bombardier are not producing at full capacity the current metro coaches. In Europe even 300K "towns" are going the metro/tram direction, and in India, metro manufacturers are under worked.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 03 Jul 2014 16:23

People having field day on Twitter with Photoshop skills.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2014 18:15

Virupaksha wrote:
SaiK wrote:when we spend for land acquisition, development cost for single tracks, I would think it would not be double that investment for dual or triple tracks. railway projects must be standardized on long-term track building technology and requirements rather short-term populist single track connectivity agenda.
except for the metros which are being built hap hazardly and without long term planning on metre guage - the regular lines planning is pretty decent, all of them are being standardized on broad guage with solutions being implemented in rolled out fashion. The biggest issue is that the money available is sufficient for a small fraction of what is required and politics comes into picture.

1. head on collision accidents can be prevented on uni-directional tracks (operation wise)
2. uni-directional tracks improves efficiency and cost of operations.
3. they also improve service operations and routing
4. dedicated single track goods line further help remove all road-blocks and improve service.
5. long-term aspects include modernizing existing coaches and hygiene services

so standardization is not just about single track, coach size aspect. it is all about operational aspects.

/OT to railways thread
==============

^^why photoshop this thread?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 03 Jul 2014 18:28

SaiK wrote: 1. head on collision accidents can be prevented on uni-directional tracks (operation wise)
2. uni-directional tracks improves efficiency and cost of operations.
3. they also improve service operations and routing
4. dedicated single track goods line further help remove all road-blocks and improve service.
5. long-term aspects include modernizing existing coaches and hygiene services

so standardization is not just about single track, coach size aspect. it is all about operational aspects.

double laning costs money and when there are parallel demands, some phases are taken up first. facts of budgeting.

Even on double laning, maintainance and other issues mean some sections might have to used as single lanes for periods of time.

Scheduling, for example trains for which travel times is around 8-12 hours, passengers like them to start in evenings instead of mornings, so that travel is overnight. So train timings to and from stations tend to cluster and strict uni-directional tracks is inefficient usage of resources.

one word money, goods trains are run in gaps of scheduling between passenger trains and dedicated goods lines though beneficial from goods pov tend to harm passenger lines as goods subsidize passengers.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 03 Jul 2014 19:04

Work on metro expansion in Delhi is going on well. Next destination will be Ludhiana and Chandigarh

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jul 2014 22:32

Well done IR. As many here have pointed out the existing tracks can be upgraded to 200 kmph type lines. One small step forward.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 411_1.html

The Indian Railways on Thursday held a trial run of a semi-high speed train between New Delhi to Agra.

"The maximum speed of the train is 160 km/h. There are 10 coaches altogether and it is a trial run today. The speed of the train is more than the Shatabdi that runs from New Delhi to Agra. It will start running from November," said DRM of Delhi Division, Anurag Sachaan.

"The fare will be decided by railway department. After this, a similar train for New Delhi to Chandigarh and New Delhi to Kanpur will be put into effect," he added

The trial run will see the train travelling upto a speed of 160 kilometres per hour. The semi-high speed train would reduce the travel time between Delhi and Agra by about 30 minutes to 90 minutes.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Jul 2014 11:57

Excellent news. Onwards.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nare ... 69784.html

Narendra Modi flags off 'Mata Vaishno Devi' train from Katra in Jammu and Kashmir; suggests train be named Shri Shakti Express

He later flew in a helicopter to Katra town to inaugurate the 25-km rail link between the Mata Vaishno Devi Shrine base camp town and Udhampur.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Jul 2014 21:45

I think the trains need a face lift. These trains look so outdated. Even with the normal speeds, I would like to see new trains rolled out with nice sleek looks. But well, with roaring fiscal deficit and railways already in debt, I guess I am asking for too much. Probably that is all phase 2 when the government has money, wants to spend to create even more jobs and make public spend to spur industry.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jul 2014 23:15

Bosses .. ops on dual lane has reduced show stoppers than single tracks. Pl don't say it for the sake of replying.
Just the land acquisition alone pulls down the project and repeated encroachment into slums and public space is a bad idea for IR. One shot plan for the future. We have wasted way too much time in this kangrez cultures all these decades.

And more than the looks, clean trains, clean public habits, and hygiene toilets are priorities.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 05 Jul 2014 00:16

SaiK wrote:Bosses .. ops on dual lane has reduced show stoppers than single tracks. Pl don't say it for the sake of replying.
Just the land acquisition alone pulls down the project and repeated encroachment into slums and public space is a bad idea for IR. One shot plan for the future. We have wasted way too much time in this kangrez cultures all these decades.

And more than the looks, clean trains, clean public habits, and hygiene toilets are priorities.

I agree. Hole in the ground wont work. Piss and sh*t gets everywhere with the trains jostling back and forth. Cattle class has to learn how to use both types of toilets. Proper hygiene and habits should be taught more in schools.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jul 2014 08:09

setting up malls on surplus railway land adjacent to stations may not exactly work .... the surrounding areas of railway stations are generally so congested with warehouses, hotels, eating joints that its usually tough to drive there and nobody considers it a pleasant area to visit except when travelling.
leasing it out to setup hotels might again not work unless CBD is nearby because not many high-end travellers take the train these days.

selling it off to build office complexes might work, atleast in the metros. but again high paying ITvity office types will be in SEZs on the outskirts.

in smaller places it again a harder sell.

so not seeing a easy way to improve cash flow through sale or lease of land parcels imo.

I think massive govt targeted funding to clean up the mess of old railway stns, rolling stock and old bridges is the only way out....China invested $50 billion per annum over 10 years to totally revamp its train system ..... they have reached the level of cloning japani bullet trains and offering for export. they have massively higher freight tonnage than us I expect and two levels of HSR - 250kmph and 350kmph.

fares for the holy gowmata of 2nd class sleeper will have to increase to make any impact on pax revenue...just punishing the couple of AC rakes per train is drop in bucket.
a taxi from my house to blr central will cost more than a sleeper ticket to guwahati.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Jul 2014 12:12

muraliravi wrote:I think the trains need a face lift. These trains look so outdated. Even with the normal speeds, I would like to see new trains rolled out with nice sleek looks. But well, with roaring fiscal deficit and railways already in debt, I guess I am asking for too much. Probably that is all phase 2 when the government has money, wants to spend to create even more jobs and make public spend to spur industry.

Sleeker looks are not strictly necessary to operate at 160km/h. Some simple measures are necessary, like doors that don't open unless train is stopped, and perhaps sealed windows. You can do 300km/h+ even with a boxy loco, like this French one way back in 1955:

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 05 Jul 2014 20:44

Singha ji,

Its not difficult. I will use Secunderabad as an example:

1. Integrated bus station
2. Integrated MMtS station
3. Integrated Metro station
4. Integrated veg-market
5. Integrated malls/movie theaters
6. Integrated govt offices (all the aspects of government offices that out-of-city people deal with: pension offices, AG, R&B etc.,). It opens up these areas for public use (parks etc.,)
7. Integrated businesses (like schools/colleges etc)
8. Integrated super-speciality hospitals (for out of city patients)

They can integrate the whole area around Sec-Bad staton including the Bus stations, Monda Market etc into one economic hub. This is a >1Sq KM area. Even with a 40% utility a 10 story complex will have 40-50,000,000 sq.ft area. At Rs 20/sft/yr rent IR will get anywhere between 50-100 crore rent from Sec-bad station alone.

Or they can sell these spaces at anywhere between Rs 3-4000/sft while keeping perpetual rights to have the first 2-3 floors reserved for Indian railways. That is 10-20,000 crore onetime income for IR in Secunderabad alone.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 06 Jul 2014 10:45

Chinese High Speed Rail Leapfrog Development. ---- Jamestown Foundation 3-July-2014

From the beginning, Chinese media and government sources were explicit that China planned to compete with established train manufactures in their home markets and around the world.
....
....
The development trajectory of Chinese HSR has been guided by the “Mid-to-Long-Term Railway Development Plan,” which states that the ultimate rail development goal (in addition to improvements in national infrastructure) is the creation of independently competitive international Chinese HSR brands

We did a big mistake in our telecommunication revolution as well as our ongoing power and airline revolution. In all of these we are simply the end users. There was no multiplier effect to our domestic industries. Despite spending crores of Indian rupees on Indian telecom infrastructure equipment the ultimate benefit were European and now Chinese firms. This led not only to drain of precious foreign currency but also we did not have a conducive policy in place for building Indian telecom equipment manufactures. Manufacturers whose shares will be traded in Indian stock exchanges, whose debt will be held by Indian banks and whose value gets added into India and not abroad. We are walking down the same path in power and airline industries. All if these have spill over effects to our defense industries.

Since the fad of HSR is catching up in India, we should aim that we do not repeat our previous mistakes.

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 06 Jul 2014 12:37

I think more importantly we need to innovate on Personal Rapid Transit Technologies. Protected Right of way point to point transit within cities that not just takes you on a 2D grid but is able to take you on a 3D grid with multilevel access to sky scrappers and Ground Level at +20 m and +30 m etc. Something that removes people to travel on the ground and instead is a hybrid of autos and elevators on rails in hopefully air conditioned comfort

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jul 2014 19:21

what I am saying is this.. fundamentals are cornerstones and foundations of any system. massan rules and roads infrastructure policies was actually laid out some 200 years ago, and the same darn thing applies now.. one need to think ahead for the future, rather just be short-sighted.

if massa needs a measure of x input points, our nation needs x^2 input points of analysis. We have lot more problems to handle than massans did. our needs are entirely different, and in addition we have to also transform a crowd that is still some 500 years back, while a niche of few millions are in +500 years thought. we can do it.

if negatives are covered - hygiene, rules, responsibility, public property destruction, etc.. we become advanced society. infrastructure will just follow us blindly

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 06 Jul 2014 20:07

I know it doesn't seem that way but at least in Chennai taking a guess I'd say ~ 90% of folks are interested in following laws and are willing to stop at lights, not sound the horn and cut in front of folks, etc. Of course the conditions of the roads and the poor design forces them to break law after law. It is that last 10% who weave in and out, dive through stop lights, sound the horn non-stop that cause the interminable chaos. Even these folks can be reformed IMHO.

If there is #1 thing I would focus on it would be to build proper sidewalks, keep them clear, so folks can walk separated from traffic. Right now folks are forced into walking in the middle of the road, crossing randomly and hawkers etc obstruct the flow. Just this 1 item would solve 50% of our traffic problems and road violations and probably fatalities. The vast majority of road fatalities in India are pedestrians. It was true 40 years ago and is true today as well.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jul 2014 20:32

ITI is the HAL of the telecom industry. per govt norms, a certain % of BSNL/MTNL orders have to be gotten from ITI. ITI makes nothing original but license makes via a cozy relationship with vendors like alcatel. but it is classified as pindigenous and domestic offsets!!

btw today , just ahead of me, I saw a commotion on the road at a traffic light. people had surrounded a renault duster. one front wheel had fallen into a small hole that some digging agency had left behind but which was many feet deep...right on the road with no markers. some people from a textile factory lifted that end of the vehicle and freed it. some crude stones were placed around the hole (will rip any unwary vehicle at night but better than falling in at high speed I guess). and life went on.
thats the std of road safety and upkeep in HSR layout , bengaluru kerala.

for a while near my house, a steel road was poking out randomly from the service road near a sinkhole type area. to avoid the rod, local veterans went over this soft area.
then one day I come home to see a dump truck in that sinkhole like a dead whale.

all such works are inspected and passed by BBMP engineers before releasing funds to the contractors. supposedly.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 07 Jul 2014 10:10

Theo_Fidel wrote:I know it doesn't seem that way but at least in Chennai taking a guess I'd say ~ 90% of folks are interested in following laws and are willing to stop at lights, not sound the horn and cut in front of folks, etc.

True, if you really look at it one @ss will jump the light first then couple more will do. Typical signal jumpers are autos, two wheelers and cabs, regular cars on that order. But I do see that a lot of the educated folks are indeed not giving way when the signal is red, which is a good thing, even if the guy behind you honks to death.

If there is #1 thing I would focus on it would be to build proper sidewalks, keep them clear, so folks can walk separated from traffic. Right now folks are forced into walking in the middle of the road, crossing randomly and hawkers etc obstruct the flow.

Corporation has upgraded a lot of walkways in the city. Infact they have installed SS barricades between the pathway and road so people will not be able to park on the sidewalk. With in a few weeks I saw a Karumbu juice shop, a belt vendor and then a push cart occupying the sidewalks. A police check post is 100m from these obstructions and they conduct brisk business.

The other problem is having commercial establishments in pucca residential areas, mostly restaurants. They park all along the road, occupying the foot path and the roads. This is a nightmare for the pedestrains in all the established old city neighborhoods. CMDA has to come down heavily on these places, if they dont have space for at least 10 cars to park inside, they should not be given licenses to serve food.

This one talks about Raintree in St.Marys,
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 181298.ece

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 07 Jul 2014 12:55

Indian trains can run at 300 kmph: Expert

"A trial run which I conducted successfully between Madgaon (Goa) and Roha (near Mumbai) in 2003 averaged 150 kmph continuously over a 400 km stretch, the longest in rail history then," Rajaram recalled.

"The train slashed travel time to a mere three-and-a-half hours, from the nearly nine hours that superfast trains normally take to complete the 442-km journey.

"On a particular stretch, the General Electric-designed diesel loco effortlessly touched 179 kmph until I asked the driver to slow down," said Rajaram, who rode with the driver.

"During the trial run on Konkan route, built for a peak speed of 160 km, I also successfully tested cab signalling for the first time in India."

Cab signalling is what makes the ultra high-speed rail systems in Japan, France and Germany operate so successfully and safely.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 Jul 2014 20:23

The LHB rake is limited to 160 kmph IIRC. With some redesign 200 kmph is possible with SS coaches, A/C, controlled discharge toilets etc. This is possible with existing 52 kg/M rails with 1600 sleepers per km, min radius of 600m (recommended 1200m for ride comfort), visual signaling, 1:100 grades, etc. Chennai Mumbai in 6-8 Hours.

300 kmph is serious business. Complete redesign will be required. Even then I'm doubtful if existing ROW can support it. May need new alignments. Fully SS coaches with mech. Tilt technology, probably induction braking, Heavier 60 kg/m rail, in-cab signal mandatory W/ central control (as pointed out), fully fenced, reduce grades to 1:300, min radius of 3000m, etc. Chennai Mumbai in 4-6 hours.

IMHO 300 kmph may not be worth it just yet @ a savings of a couple of hours.

Mr Rajaram is a man after my own heart. He is absolutely right that the engineers to execute this technology exist and have always existed in India. The question is one of the heavy investment and professionally organized approach required. Always these things have been starved of capital in India and sooner or later the engineers leave.

One is also reminded of the cautionary experience of the skybus where a new technology that made one error was written off rather than effort made to correct the error.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 07 Jul 2014 21:31

If 130 kmhr train comes between Ahmedabad-Mumbai, the distance of 492 km will get covered in less than 4 hours . That will completely kill the Ahmedabad-Mumbai flight business.

====

As per COMMERCIAL "records" , not test records , one notable mention is 114 kmhr train in UK in 1930s !! From year 1932 to year 1960, two trains ran daily from London to Swindon and back covering 124 km in just 65 minutes, i.e AVERAGE SPEED of of 114 kmhr !! Such train would cover Ahmedabad-Mumbai distance in 4.5 hours only !! IOW, a 4.5 hour shatabdi between Ahmedabad-Mumbai was technically feasible even in 1930s !!!

And here is some more info on other fast COMMERCIAL , not test , trains

1933-1939, Germany, train from Berlin to Hamburg , distance = 286 km, average speed = 124 km ; such train would cover Ahmedabad-Mumbai distance in 4 hours !!

1965-today , Japan, train from Tokyo to Osaka, making two stops, coving distance of 515 km, slightly more than ahmedbad-mumbai distance of 492 km. Average speed including stop times = 160 kmhr. Such ttrain would cover Ahmedabad-Mumbai distance in just 4 hours including stops at Baroda\Surat . and non-stop would cover distance in 3 hours and 20 minutes.

For more, please see wiki at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed ... operations

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 07 Jul 2014 23:32

Suraj wrote: Sleeker looks are not strictly necessary to operate at 160km/h. Some simple measures are necessary, like doors that don't open unless train is stopped, and perhaps sealed windows. You can do 300km/h+ even with a boxy loco, like this French one way back in 1955:

Suraj Sir,

Agreed. I was just saying that from an aesthetic perspective

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Jul 2014 23:46

no land based service will kill air-services.. it will only make it better.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 08 Jul 2014 01:29

SaiK wrote:no land based service will kill air-services.. it will only make it better.

And if it does kill, let it kill. If the airliners dont want their business of flying short distances to be killed, then they need to be cheaper than they are now. But if thats going to affect their profits, then the airliners should be ones who should be funding R&D within India to develop low cost short haul airplanes which will lower their fleet cost substantially instead of the embraer and boeing jets they currently have.

Historically it is that business prudence that has driven innovation. Let the airliners fund r&d for low cost airline development in India and in turn if railways feels that its high speed is not high enough to meet the airline, then let them again fund r&d for even higher speed rail to meet plane speed.

Its not govt's job to fund people to innovate. It should be mainly a private initiative.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 08 Jul 2014 03:56

HSR may be possible in India

Let us do some simple math.
India had 6.1 crore domestic air travellers. let us assume they spend an average of Rs 5000 per ticket. that gives us a figure of 30K crores.

HSR is said to cost approx 10 crore per km. Hence we can get 3000 km of HSR per year for the money India spends on air travel. Within 10 years one would have 30000 km of HSR in India. Running airtravel is expensive and the country has to make huge payments to import and run the aircrafts.

Now if India could build competance in HSR, it would save all that foreign exchange. HSR may be expensive, but still cheaper then compared to air travel. new delhi to Mumbai would take approx 5 hours. (air travel typically would take 1 hour to the airport, 1 hour wait, 2 hour flight, 1 hour from the airport, total 5 hours).

I think a lot of people would opt for HSR if there was a choice. India is a very densly populated country. And train is perfect. A line between Mumbai and Delhi would pass via a dozen or so million cities. Something to think of.

New Delhi to Mumbai is approx 1500 km. Cost of HSR would be 15000 crores. Split on 10 years one gets a cost of 1500 crores. As per the site my trip there are some 40 flights per day between the cities. The typical airfare is Rs 10K day before. Only heavy discounted tickets are Rs 5000. With 40 flights per day and assuming there are some 120 passengers per flight we come to 4000 passengers per day each way. Hence the total market is worth 8000 people x Rs 7000 ticket X 360 =
If the average was 2000 passengers paying Rs 7000 per day, we get a total turnover is just above Rs 2000 crores.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 08 Jul 2014 05:20

Rishirishi wrote:New Delhi to Mumbai is approx 1500 km. Cost of HSR would be 15000 crores.

I think you are missing a zero or two here.

Just Mumbai Ahmedabad has been estimated @ Rs 70,000 Crore. Even that is probably an underestimate.

A good rule of thumb is $30 million per km.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 07:21

clearly the dedicated new uber tracks needed for 300kmph is just not cost effective in our context. nor it can support the huge nos of pax needed for break even within reasonable time before next cycle of upg.

I think even getting all our express trains nationwide to 150kmph is a herculean task and hard to find funds for that too, except some inter metro corridors.

the real improvements are over the long haul trains not the shatabdi type short hauls......like kochi/ernakulam to howrah and guwahati, blr - howrah - guwahati (3000km), jammu - delhi - ernakulam ..... patna - mumbai , patna - blr .... makes life a lot better not to spend 3 nights on a rattling train.

a 3000km train with 120kmph avg to account for stops would be 24 hr job....board in guwahati in morning, and get down in chennai the next morning same time in good shape.

Cheen already has masses of these trains...infact all these non HSR trains must be at that level by now.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 07:31

cheen has 3 classes of long haul sleeper coaches. all look so much better than our crap.

hard sleeper - no infamous side berth here and fully AC
http://www.echinatravel.net/wp-content/ ... yw25k5.jpg
http://www.mytravel-china.com/wp-conten ... 00x221.jpg

soft sleeper - our 2AC
http://www.beijingchina.net.cn/photo/be ... train2.jpg

deluxe soft sleeper - nothing we have compares to it - 2 beds, private toilet - ideal for honeymooners and couples imo
http://www.beijingchina.net.cn/photo/deluxe-sleeper.jpg

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jul 2014 08:22

what goes around, comes around
people want crap, they get it
if people desire advanced setup
nothing can stop them getting it

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Jul 2014 10:44

There are several categories of Chinese trains, ranging from the bottom rung K trains which are like our own 2nd class compartment trains, aircon not necessarily available, and otherwise comparable. The T and to an extent Z trains are comparable to our express trains. The G, D and C class trains are what are truly different, all being various high speed trains.

There's no substitute for investment in rail infrastructure. Would someone be willing to do an analysis of say, the last 10-15 railway budgets and list the capital expenditure component of each , as well as the manpower cost component ? Of course the investment is likely to be low, but real data analysis would be very useful.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Jul 2014 11:43

Railway Minister says needs 60K crore just for single HSR line.

100 cr allocated for study of mumbai-ahmdbad HSR

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 08 Jul 2014 12:03

- Passenger fares will be periodically raised as per new tariff policy linked to fuel price.

- #RailBudget2014 Surplus revenues declining. Hardly any resources for development works. Rs.5 Lakh Cr required for ongoing projects alone.

- Doubing, tripling is Railways' first priority. Construction of new lines is the second.

- FDI to be open up in Railways except Railway operations. Cabinet approval sought.

- Propose PPP model for High-speed trains

- I propose bullet trains, Mumbai-Ahmedabad sector has been identified

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 08 Jul 2014 12:20

I am not so economics guy, but isn't it all the price rise of commodities directly linked to transportation. If a nation has cheapest means of transport than, costs can be brought down.
Now the question, How can we decrease transportation charges when fuel price is more? I think here lies our one chance to arrest price rise. Say, we upgrade all railways to diesel-electric trains, and we plant solar panels, bio-fuel based electricity producing devices directly under railway supervision, in that way railway produces its own electricity. The same can be followed to other departments, how will produce there own electricity.
Since, railway runs on its own energy, after few years, it can decrease transportation charges to say minimum ( it is directly under its control). This will benefit not only people but to all who use railway for there daily business.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 12:31

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:New Delhi to Mumbai is approx 1500 km. Cost of HSR would be 15000 crores.
I think you are missing a zero or two here.

Just Mumbai Ahmedabad has been estimated @ Rs 70,000 Crore. Even that is probably an underestimate.

A good rule of thumb is $30 million per km.

just saw Gowdaji delivering the rail budget part of it.
the ticker says 900,000 cr needed for a diamond quadrilateral HSR.

so each leg on avg is 225,000cr and the 70,000cr for mumbai-ahmedabad fits in well

so Theo ji was right on the ball wrt to cost.

there is no way in hell that kind of cash can be found even on a 10 year rolling basis. and all the corners that are usually cut in the name of cost and jugaad for normal roads/rails is a absolute no-no for a 300kmph HSR....it will be a disaster if any weak points in the chain are there when a train weighing 1000tons thunders along at 300kmph....its momentum will be off the chart.