Indian Railways Thread

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Jul 2014 12:31

govardhanks wrote:I am not so economics guy, but isn't it all the price rise of commodities directly linked to transportation. If a nation has cheapest means of transport than, costs can be brought down.
Now the question, How can we decrease transportation charges when fuel price is more? I think here lies our one chance to arrest price rise. Say, we upgrade all railways to diesel-electric trains, and we plant solar panels, bio-fuel based electricity producing devices directly under railway supervision, in that way railway produces its own electricity. The same can be followed to other departments, how will produce there own electricity.
Since, railway runs on its own energy, after few years, it can decrease transportation charges to say minimum ( it is directly under its control). This will benefit not only people but to all who use railway for there daily business.

I think that it is high time that we learned to pay realistic prices for goods and services.

Unless the termite gang returns and enacts the "right to travel" bill.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Jul 2014 12:34

Even if they find that cash they can do a lot good investing that money to improve existing Railways Infrastructure and provide QOS in everything.

Even raising speed to 180-200 km/hr for most trains running would be a good target to achieve.

All this Bullet Train etc is just Wasting Resources for H&D

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 08 Jul 2014 12:41

chetak wrote: I think that it is high time that we learned to pay realistic prices for goods and services.

Unless the termite gang returns and enacts the "right to travel" bill.

Termite gang is going to return ji, they have built a network of people for almost 60years, they won't give up, unless MODIfied sarkar plans for some secret agents based clean up, they will return.

I would be even more worried for minority based reservations within "right to travel" bill

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Jul 2014 12:45

Not really, IF done by private parties, it will improve personal mobility within India by a large scale, reduce a lot of road and flight travel and create a lot domestic capability and Jobs. Offcource people will have to pay realistic prices.

The existing system should kept separate and parallel, kinda of like the Mumbai-Delhi or Chennai Bengaluru Road corridor.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Jul 2014 12:45

Not really, IF done by private parties, it will improve personal mobility within India by a large scale, reduce a lot of road and flight travel and create a lot domestic capability and Jobs. Offcource people will have to pay realistic prices.

The existing system should kept separate and parallel, kinda of like the Mumbai-Delhi or Chennai Bengaluru Road corridor.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Jul 2014 12:45

Not really, IF done by private parties, it will improve personal mobility within India by a large scale, reduce a lot of road and flight travel and create a lot domestic capability and Jobs. Offcource people will have to pay realistic prices.

The existing system should kept separate and parallel, kinda of like the Mumbai-Delhi or Chennai Bengaluru Road corridor.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 08 Jul 2014 13:37

So what are the bold initiatives in this budget apart from HSR?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 14:39

The full list of new trains:
Jansadharan Trains
i) Ahmedabad-Darbhanga Jansadharan Express via Surat
Ii Jaynagar-Mumbai Jansadharan Express
ii) Mumbai-Gorakhpur Jansadharan Express
iv) Saharasa-Anand Vihar Jansadharan Express via Motihari
v) Saharasa-Amritsar Jansadharan Express
Premium Trains
i) Mumbai Central-New Delhi Premium AC Express
ii) Shalimar-Chennai Premium AC Express
iii) Secunderabad- Hazrat Nizamuddin Premium AC Express
iv) Jaipur-Madurai Premium Express
v) Kamakhya-Bengaluru Premium Express
AC Express Trains
i) Vijayawada-NewDelhi AP Express(Daily)
ii) Lokmanya Tilak(T)-Lucknow(Weekly)
iii) Nagpur-Pune(Weekly)
iv) Nagpur-Amritsar(Weekly)
v) Naharlagun-New Delhi(Weekly)
vi) Nizamuddin-Pune(Weekly)
Express Trains
i) Ahmedabad-Patna Express(Weekly)via Varanasi
ii) Ahmedabad Chennai Express(Biweekly)via Vasai Road
iii) Bengaluru -Mangalore Express(Daily)
iv) Bengaluru -Shimoga Express(Biweekly)
v) Bandra(T)-Jaipur Express(Weekly)Via Nagda,Kota
vi) Bidar-Mumbai Express(Weekly)
vii) Chhapra-Lucknow Express (Tri weekly)via Ballia, Ghazipur, Varanasi
viii) Ferozpur-Chandigarh Express(6 days a week)
ix) Guwahati-Naharlagun Intercity Express(Daily)
x) Guwahati-Murkongselek Intercity Express(Daily)
xi) Gorakhpur-Anand Vihar Express(Weekly)
xii) Hapa-Bilaspur Express(Weekly)via Nagpur
xiii) Hazur Saheb Nanded-Bikaner Express(Weekly)
xiv) Indore-Jammu Tawi Express(Weekly)
xv) Kamakhya-Katra Express(Weekly)via Darbhanga
xvi) Kanpur-Jammu Tawi Express(Biweekly)
xvii) Lokmanya Tilak(T)-Azamgarh Express(Weekly)
xviii) Mumbai_Kazipeth Express(Weekly)via Balharshah
xix) Mumbai-Palitana Express(Weekly)
xx) New Delhi Bhatinda Shatabdi Express(Biweekly)
xxi) New Delhi-Varanasi Express(Daily)
xxii) Paradeep-Howrah Express(Weekly)
xxiii) Paradeep-Visakhapatnam Express(Weekly)
xxiv) Rajkot-Rewa Express(Weekly)
xxv) Ramnagar-Agra Express(Weekly)
xxvi) Tatanagar Baiyyappanahali (Bengaluru) Express(Weekly)
xxvii) Visakhapatnam-Chennai Express(Weekly)
Passenger Trains
i) Bikaner-Rewari Passenger(Daily)
ii) Dharwad-Dandeli Passenger(Daily)via Alnavar
iii) Gorakhpur-Nautanwa Passenger(Daily)
iv) Guwahati-Mendipathar Passenger(Daily)
v) Hatia-Rourkela Passenger
vi) Byndoor-Kasaragod Passenger(Daily)
vii) Rangapara North-Rangiya Passenger(Daily)
viii) Yesvantpur-Tumkur Passenger(Daily)
MEMU services
i) Bengaluru -Ramanagaram 6 days a week(3Pairs)
ii) Palwal-Delhi-Aligarh
DEMU services
i) Bengaluru -Neelmangala (Daily)
ii) Chhapra-Manduadih (6days a week)via Ballia
iii) Baramula-Banihal (Daily)
iv) Sambalpur-Rourkela (6 days a week)
v) Yesvantpur Hosur (6 days a week)
Extension of run of existing trains
i) 22409/22410 Anand Vihar Sasaram Garib Rath Express to Gaya
ii) 12455/12456 Delhi Sarai Rohilla Sriganganagar Express to Bikaner
iii) 15231/15232 Gondia Muzaffarpur Express to Barauni
iv) 12001/12002 New Delhi Bhopal Shatabdi Express to Habibganj
v) 54602 Ludhiana-Hissar Passenger to Sadulpur
vi) 55007/55008 Sonpur-Kaptanganj Passenger to Gorakhpur
vii) 55072/55073 Gorakhpur-Thawe Passenger to Siwan
viii) 63237/63238Buxar-Mughalsarai MEMU to Varanasi
ix) 63208/63211 Jhajha-Patna MEMU to Jasidih
x) 64221/64222 Lucknow Hardoi MEMU to Shahjahanpur
xi) 68002/68007 Howrah-Belda MEMU to Jaleswar

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 14:40

there are no bold initiatives at present like leasing out surplus land, leasing out platform management to pvt parties.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Jul 2014 15:21

its there, prvt players will be given house keeping of platforms

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 08 Jul 2014 15:33

Linking of fare to fuel prices. Raising fare in 6 months.

The budget seems focussed on west and south India. Gowda is partial to his home state though not as much as Niku or Laloo or Mamta. Not that I am complaining.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 08 Jul 2014 15:39

There is lot of heart burn in TMC and CongI circles on the first railway budget presentation. I could see the hatred on Ashwini Kumars face as he was interviewed on the parliament lawns. TMC got into fracas with the BJP MPs. That party is worse than the AAPturds.

With the LOP fracas expect this to get worse as the budget presentation nears.

Saving grace the support BJP is getting from the AIADMK stable.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 08 Jul 2014 15:41

Singha wrote: so each leg on avg is 225,000cr and the 70,000cr for mumbai-ahmedabad fits in well

so Theo ji was right on the ball wrt to cost.

there is no way in hell that kind of cash can be found even on a 10 year rolling basis. and all the corners that are usually cut in the name of cost and jugaad for normal roads/rails is a absolute no-no for a 300kmph HSR....it will be a disaster if any weak points in the chain are there when a train weighing 1000tons thunders along at 300kmph....its momentum will be off the chart.

Assuming its Japanese technology thats being bought here, woudnt the japanese too have the same fear regarding payments. Since things have already set rolling with a 100 cr study underway and IR having 0 experience in HSR layout

this will in all probabilty be for some Japanese consultant to start work. I think Japanese might be providing soft loans and they might have some idea on cost recovery since its planned to be completed before 2019 and would be under a seperate department in IR.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 15:53

seems to me northern railway HQed in NDLS has always got the prime meat looking at the number of shatabdi and rajdhani trains all terminating at NDLS ... prime meat in the sense of the tracks and signaling to support these faster trains.

mumbai, chennai, howrah despite being massive terminus and industrial centers have not been similarly blessed.

I think chennai has a bare 2 shatabdi trains which come from mysore and blr. none come from south TN or AP.
howrah and hyderabad has no shatabdhi trains to my knowledge..despite south central railway having a culture of good work and good tracks. the viyajayawada stn was really very good even back in the early 90s...spotlessly clean, huge platforms, clean restaurants, ameneties....I was amazed when seeing it first after the mess that is NFR and ER.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 08 Jul 2014 16:18

The 18000 pound elephant in the room, that you all seem to be ignoring , is that profits that Japanese companies earn from their 300-kmhr trains have to be paid dollars. WhereTH will GoI get dollars from?

Dr NaMo is giving a this FDI medicine which has serious and possibly fatal side effect called as "forex crunch" and massive religious conversions. An ethical doctor will forewarn his patient about side effects to the patient, before giving such medicine.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 08 Jul 2014 16:46

FDI in railways awaits cabinet nod. I think there is mention of stations being developed along PPP lines. So expecting the modernization of the metro terminals like the airports. Would have loved if key trains were given to private parties to run on PPP with brand new trains at par with the rest of the world.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 08 Jul 2014 17:00

Paul wrote:The budget seems focussed on west and south India. Gowda is partial to his home state though not as much as Niku or Laloo or Mamta. Not that I am complaining.

I think this is part of a larger political plan. Are these states which got good number of trains and budget allocation going for elections or some thing like that? Karnataka has a strong BJP presence, RM is also from there - so perhaps this would solidify his and BJP's position in the state.

The top most sour loser would be the state of Kerala. Just a passenger train, and practically peanuts allocated to various ongoing development works. The 20 "seculars" now sent to New Delhi would also have to answer lots of tough question. They also cannot whine much, as they had a previous INC led govt at the centre. The state did not get any big deal.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 08 Jul 2014 18:19

>>The top most sour loser would be the state of Kerala.

Adding salt to wounds is , the only train service given is from northern most tip kasargod to byndoor.
No mention of line that is supposed to bypass shornur junction to connect north and south kerala.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 08 Jul 2014 18:26

Rahul Mehta wrote:The 18000 pound elephant in the room, that you all seem to be ignoring , is that profits that Japanese companies earn from their 300-kmhr trains have to be paid dollars. WhereTH will GoI get dollars from?

Dr NaMo is giving a this FDI medicine which has serious and possibly fatal side effect called as "forex crunch" and massive religious conversions. An ethical doctor will forewarn his patient about side effects to the patient, before giving such medicine.

Damnit, stop with this nonsense. How the hell does railway reform lead to religious conversion? You've lost it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 18:38

Maybe angle for older second hand hsr running stock from Japan than shiny new 350kmph nozomi sharpsword h&d kit.

but one thing is sure...triple tracking the metro quad will help all trains not just limited hsr...

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 08 Jul 2014 18:54

arvin wrote:
Singha wrote: so each leg on avg is 225,000cr and the 70,000cr for mumbai-ahmedabad fits in well

so Theo ji was right on the ball wrt to cost.

there is no way in hell that kind of cash can be found even on a 10 year rolling basis. and all the corners that are usually cut in the name of cost and jugaad for normal roads/rails is a absolute no-no for a 300kmph HSR....it will be a disaster if any weak points in the chain are there when a train weighing 1000tons thunders along at 300kmph....its momentum will be off the chart.
Assuming its Japanese technology thats being bought here, woudnt the japanese too have the same fear regarding payments. Since things have already set rolling with a 100 cr study underway and IR having 0 experience in HSR layout this will in all probabilty be for some Japanese consultant to start work. I think Japanese might be providing soft loans and they might have some idea on cost recovery since its planned to be completed before 2019 and would be under a seperate department in IR.

Abenomics dictates yen inflation. Yen printing finds home in India. Incoming forex strengthens rupee. Rajan does not like that hence he prints to maintain the currency peg or buys dollars with the strengthening rupee. Net beneficiary is India. Until the game is up. Japanese sovereign fund is huge. They encouraged carry trade for best part of 25 years, they can print for a lot longer than we can think for. They only have one wish, the yen held overseas does not return home. 70,000 crore? They can afford a lot more than that. And they will put their money into these projects as it guarantees them more projects and also income from maintainence contracts.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 08 Jul 2014 19:08

arvin wrote:No mention of line that is supposed to bypass shornur junction to connect north and south kerala.

Guess you are talking about the proposed Guruvayur-Tirur line. We already have a railway line till Guruvayur and Tirur is any way on the main line. The railways have done three surveys to get the alignment of the route. Each time the local people scuttled this. Their last survey was the best they could offer - 20 houses may have to get shifted. Railways promised to build the line considering the aspects of paddy fields, water logging etc. They showed the existing coastal railway (in Alappuzha etc.) as example. Local people still did not budge. Railways have now dropped this plan. Considering all this, this single passenger train is more than sufficient for the people's demands. The craze in Kerala is to build green field airports at every nook and corner. And surprisingly people are willing to shell out the money, and no opposition from local folks (except at Aaranmula, South Kerala).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2014 21:30

on that note the NH between baindoor and shiroor around 10km was in UNIMAGINABLY bad shape late last yr and work had not yet started to repair.
GIGANTIC lunar landscape type potholes.
and I had to drive a loaded civic on that road just to increase my HR to 220.
finally found a 20km of single lane mountain road to bypass that stretch courtesy our hotel owner.
phew. I aint going back there without SATINT confirmation of road being smoothly blacktopped.

I also dropped by into Bhatkal which is the next town. all the women moving around were in face covered burqas and had male minders.
big general merchant shops owned by gulf returnees.
some saffron clad bike borne RSS types were taking out a procession to a temple at the edge of town...watched sullenly by the ROP and a bunch of cops tasked to prevent any incident.

Murudeshwar with its giant Shiva statue further up the coast was so much more relaxed and less uptight

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 08 Jul 2014 21:59

The price increment due to fuel price hike is nothing new in this budget. In the last price hike of 14%, the original hike was 10% and the fuel price hike component was 4%. It was instituted during UPA regime itself. That, it was hold up for so long, shows that it can be subverted for political reasons.

The real show of intention would have been to discuss a fiscal responsibility bill which puts an upper limit on subsidy in passenger fare - both long distance and suburban. Also, a bill to ensure that no project starts without financial and land acquisition sorted out. A bill where all railways project gets financed by a minimum 80:20 model with the state picking up at least 20% from their quota of budget. And finally, instead of diamond quad of bullet trains, a copper or bronze quad of fully electrified double line DFC connecting 4 metros would have given much higher return with same amount of land acquisition burden and a fraction of capex and opex. Environmentally beneficial too.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 08 Jul 2014 22:50

HSR on the diamond quadrilateral does not necessarily make sense anyway. HSR typically works well in the long run on routes where it can save time relative to flying (in which is included the time to get to and from the airport, waiting time at the airport etc.). For longer distances than that, it does not make sense to invest massive amounts of money on HSR. Even in China, the most successful HSR projects are in the east, with a high density of large cities. The Mumbai-Ahmedabad project might meet this criterion, as would perhaps some other shorter corridors. Just because the Golden Quadrilateral makes sense for highways does not make it sensible to invest in a Diamond Quadrilateral for HSR. A network is not essential for HSR at this point - rather focusing on some individual segments is the way to go.

There are lots of higher priorities for IR at this point. Basic safety requires a lot of investment. A large number of bridges are over a hundred years old and need repairs/reinforcement. There is an urgent need for capacity enhancement on some routes. Rolling stock needs an upgrade. And there is a scope to increase speeds to 200 kmph on certain segments. These infrastructure investments will give more bang for the buck than high profile HSR projects. Invest in HSR where it makes sense, but not at the cost of these more urgently required investments.

In any case, this budget has not announced anything that signals a fundamental shift. Even the HSR announcement is not new, and has not been backed by any significant funding commitments at this point. A big shift would have been the announcement of a Rail Tariff Authority to allow pricing to follow business rather than purely political considerations. Perhaps that will come later in the year. But now is the time to make those big changes. Both because it will be easier to do now rather than later, and because the changes will require time to take effect.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 08 Jul 2014 23:13

Lots of nitty gritty numbers. Fascinating stuff.
--------------------
A 100 crore to start the HSR. What the..... ..that won't be enough for the line survey even!!!
-----------------------
The real problem for the Railway remains its problem of funding both capital and operational expense from the same pool. For instance bus companies don't pay the entire cost of roads. And Airlines don't pay any cost for air access.

The railways as usual runs an operational excess of Rs 15,000 crore.
But with a capital expenditure of Rs 60,000 crore with a budget support of just Rs 30,000 crore it quickly slips into a loss of Rs 15,000 crore.
The lack of budget support for capital expenditure remains the problem.
-------------------------

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/gowdas-rail- ... 607-3.html

Gowda announced the highest ever plan outlay for railways. The minister also gifted Prime Minister Narendra Modi's home state Gujarat as he proposed a bullet train service on Mumbai-Ahmedabad route which will cost Rs 60,000 crore.
.................
The budget proposes multi-pronged approach to make railway journey safe and secure and comfortable for passengers. More thrust has been placed on passenger amenities, cleanliness and efficient station management. All major stations will have foot-over bridges, escalator and lifts.

On safety and security, the budget proposed introduction of advance technology for rail-flaw detection to check causes of accidents, a significant amount of Rs 1,785 crore has been earmarked for building road-over and road-under bridges.

The budget proposes that a pilot project will be launched on automatic door closing in mainline and sub-urban coaches. In order to make women safer while travelling, the railway will recruit 4,000 women constables. Coaches for ladies will be escorted.

IT initiatives has been given a big boost in the modern budget. Revamping Railway Reservation System into Next Generation e-Ticketing will be taken up with provision of platform tickets and unreserved tickets also over internet.

The Railway has proposed real-time tracking of trains and rolling stocks, mobile based Wakeup Call System for passengers, mobile based destination arrival alert and Wi-fi Services in A-1 and A category stations and in select trains. Indian Railways has also planned paperless offices in 5 years

In order to make Railway management more efficient, the Budget has proposed setting up of Railway University for training in both technical and non-technical subjects besides establishing Innovations and Incubation Centre to harness the ideas generated from staff.

In a bid to modernise Indian Railway network, Bullet train has been proposed on Mumbai-Ahmadabad sector besides increasing speed of trains to 160-200 kmph in select nine sectors to be known as Diamond Quadrilateral Network of High Speed Rail connecting major metros and growth centres of the country.

More than Rs 9 lakh crore was needed completing the Golden Quadrilateral Network. A sum of Rs 100 crore has been provided for initiating the project.

Identified stations will be developed to international standards with modern facilities on lines of newly developed airports through PPP mode. Railway has also proposed harnessing solar energy by utilising roof top spaces of stations, railway buildings and land.

The Budget disclosed that traffic growth declined and expenditures went up in 2013-14 as compared to the revised estimates of previous financial year.

Gross traffic receipts stood at Rs 1,39,558 crore, short of revised estimates by Rs 942 crore over the previous year. The ordinary working expenses and pension outgo were also higher.

The budget estimates for 2014-15 assumes a freight loading 1101 metric tonnes, 51 metric tonnes more than the previous year, growth in passenger traffic at 2 per cent and freight earnings at Rs 1,05,770 crore.

Passenger earnings will be Rs 44,645 crore after a revenue sacrifice of Rs 610 crore on account of monthly season ticket fares.

Total receipts for the current year have been pegged at Rs 1,64,374 crore and expenditure at Rs 1,49,176 crore and Rs 60,000 crore for introducing one bullet train alone.

The annual plan for 2014-15 has been fixed at the highest ever outlay of Rs 65,445 crore with gross budgetary support at Rs 30,100 crore, Railway Safety Fund Rs 2,200 crore, internal resources Rs 15,350 crore, external market borrowing Rs 11,790 crore and EBR-PPP Rs 6,005 crore.

The budget provides higher funds for ongoing projects in North East, including 11 national projects. Rs 5,116 crore earmarked for projects in North East, which is 54 per cent higher than the previous year.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 08 Jul 2014 23:37

Sridhar wrote:HSR on the diamond quadrilateral does not necessarily make sense anyway. HSR typically works well in the long run on routes where it can save time relative to flying (in which is included the time to get to and from the airport, waiting time at the airport etc.). For longer distances than that, it does not make sense to invest massive amounts of money on HSR. Even in China, the most successful HSR projects are in the east, with a high density of large cities. The Mumbai-Ahmedabad project might meet this criterion, as would perhaps some other shorter corridors. Just because the Golden Quadrilateral makes sense for highways does not make it sensible to invest in a Diamond Quadrilateral for HSR. A network is not essential for HSR at this point - rather focusing on some individual segments is the way to go.

There are lots of higher priorities for IR at this point. Basic safety requires a lot of investment. A large number of bridges are over a hundred years old and need repairs/reinforcement. There is an urgent need for capacity enhancement on some routes. Rolling stock needs an upgrade. And there is a scope to increase speeds to 200 kmph on certain segments. These infrastructure investments will give more bang for the buck than high profile HSR projects. Invest in HSR where it makes sense, but not at the cost of these more urgently required investments.

In any case, this budget has not announced anything that signals a fundamental shift. Even the HSR announcement is not new, and has not been backed by any significant funding commitments at this point. A big shift would have been the announcement of a Rail Tariff Authority to allow pricing to follow business rather than purely political considerations. Perhaps that will come later in the year. But now is the time to make those big changes. Both because it will be easier to do now rather than later, and because the changes will require time to take effect.

Absolutely agree. HSR coverage needs to be very selective and well-thought out because of the prohibitive cost. I'd even propose limiting HSR to cargo only - this will ensure that before committing funds, we have confirmed contracts for cargo offload & there only needs to be linkage between industrial clusters. Maybe we can implement this like the Ultra Mega Power Projects scheme - where the Govt's role will be in arranging the land and environmental clearences and selecting the Pvt Party that offers the lowest cargo tariff bid per kilometer, while the Pvt Party will finance, build and operate the line. We really need to find a way to use private funding for our ideas because the Railways is (and has always been) in a huge loss (it gets a Rs 30,000 crore Gross Budgetary Support from the General Budget).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jul 2014 01:20

There is a difference between bullet train and HSR trains. Or are you all talking the very same thing?

HSR - 160-200kmph, where existing tracks can be converted
Bullet > 200 - 300 kmph, which requires new types of tracks and trains themselves.

or is it that in both cases, investments are equally huge, and it does not matter for few bucks more, we get bullet trains.

again, i am thinking bullet trains are way too higher speed than HSR.

--
the list of fast/bullet trains
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-10-f ... 12-11?op=1

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 09 Jul 2014 03:49

People posting in Burkha forum on Gov policy thread about share market dictating the budget. Absolutely not so. From all angle of analysis, this rail budget appears a mediocre one and the points explained in so many posts above. Share market is merely coming up to the same conclusion and reacting accordingly. Else there is no reason for this correction to happen now, just two days before union budget, after weeks of sustained rally.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jul 2014 09:08

what frightens me is so many cycles spent on the usual platitudes and bromides we all know - food, cleanliness, safety, new trains .... all good things but nothing special..they should be operational focus areas anyway everyday.

but in capex terms only this boondogle HSR to vendor finance japanese cos whose HSR designs got stolen by cheen.

we need
- 3 and 4 tracking of the NSEW and quadrilateral trunk routes
- need the two freight corridors completed
- a concrete yearly plan to retire n1000 coaches and scaling up build capacity to m1000 new coaches..the coach and loco plants are run like our OFBs
- a concrete yearly plan to upgrade ballast, bridges and culverts on war footing
- a concrete plan to increase avg speed of goods trains to 80kmph and pax to 110kmph.
- tech tieups to drag our railway factories to 90s level atleast overall.

else its just window dressing on a rotting heap of rubbish with no skeletal improvements.

the much tom tommed Namo focus on infra totally missing.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 09 Jul 2014 10:04

Piklu, you know about profit booking? which usually follows a rally

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 09 Jul 2014 10:11

In Gujarat too, Modi focussed on making existing schemes efficient. He did not do anything out of this world, but ensured that everything works as it was intended to be.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jul 2014 10:20

yes but IR is a different beast with a lot of things that do not need fine tuning or finesse but forklift radical changes and upgrades. pain and resistance from the entrenched lobbies inside and outside IR are inevitable.

consider our tom tommed LHB coaches are merely 90s coaches and these are the best we can have, on select trains only. by now we should have standardized on AC coaches even for 2nd class and scaled up production to eliminate the production of old model rakes.

the side berths in 2nd class are a abomination and need to go. the size of each block of 6 berths need to be increased for proper ventilation. maybe 50 pax instead of 72.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 09 Jul 2014 10:43

^^ Modi would have got not more than 15 days to work on this budget -- once he got free of swearing in, appointing ministers, etc. Let's be patient. The actual Modi budget will be the next budget.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Jul 2014 12:06

All You Wanted to Know About the Rs. 60k Cr Mumbai-Ahmedabad Bullet Train

In a move befitting the city's stature as the financial capital of the country, Railway Minister D V Sadananda Gowda announced in the Railway Budget yesterday that India's first bullet train will begin from Mumbai. Here's all you need to know about the contraption that will have you zipping from BKC to Ahmedabad in less than four hours.

The route

Mumbai (BKC)
India's first high-speed bullet train corridor is expected to begin from Bandra-Kurla Complex (BKC), which is close to local train stations on the Central and Western lines, the Metro corridor and the Eastern and Western Express Highways. "People using the bullet train can switch over to another mode of transport here," said a railway official.

Thane
The next stop for the corridor, most of which will be elevated, will be somewhere in the Thane-Diva zone, for the benefit of those living in the central suburbs and Navi Mumbai. While land surveys are underway in the zone, officials said the stop here will be connected to the Thane-Panvel Trans-Harbour line and will be close to an as yet unidentified Central line station.

Virar
The train will then travel west and halt somewhere near Virar.

Palghar
A further halt is being contemplated somewhere between Boisar and Palgha

Vapi
Another halt will be at Vapi, an industrial hub and home/workplace to many merchants and businessmen.

Valsad
Valsad is expected to be the train's penultimate stop

Ahmedabad
The corridor will terminate near Sabarmati in Ahmedabad.

Mumbai to Ahmedabad
520km: Approximate distance the train will cover
350kmph: The expected operating speed of the train
3-4 hours: The time it will take to reach Ahmedabad using the bullet train
8 hours: The time it takes from Mumbai to ahmedabad in a train currently
50-100km: The distance between each station on the line
7: Number of stations on this high-speed corridor
Numbers game
Rs. 60,000cr: The approximate cost of the project
Rs. 100cr: The amount budgeted to initiate the project
Worth its length in gold
Rs. 15cr: The cost for laying a kilometre of tracks for the current railway network
Rs. 125cr: The cost per kilometre for the high-speed corridor

Show me the money
The project is being funded by Japanese International Cooperation Agency (JICA), which is also studying its technical and financial aspects. "Studies and surveys for the Mumbai-Ahmedabad high-speed corridor are underway. We will submit the report to the Indian Railways by June 2015," said a JICA official.

Ticket cost
A ticket for the bullet train will cost close to the price of a first-class AC coach in an ordinary train

Competing with the fastest trains

Shanghai Maglev
Shanghai Maglev tops the list with its maximum operational speed of 430 kmph and average speed of 251 kmph. The Maglev started commercial operations in April 2004.
Harmony CRH 380A

With a maximum operational speed of 380 kmph, it is currently the second fastest operational train in the world. The CRH 380A began operations in October 2010 and runs from Beijing to Shanghai.

AGV Italo
It is the first train in the Italian AGV series and began services in April 2012. It has a maximum operational speed of 360 kmph. The train broke the 574 kmph record in April 2007. It operates on the Napoli-Roma-Firenze-Bologna-Milano corridor.

Heavy demand
15,000: The number of passengers that travel on the Mum-Ahd route every day, at present
25: No of trains on the Mum-Ahd route

High-tech
The coaches used in the train will be aerodynamic and sourced from Linke Hofmann Busch in Germany. While there is no clarity on the number of coaches per rake, the figure currently doing the rounds is 12, which will be able to carry 800 passengers.

Amenities
>> The coaches will have wi-fi services for passengers
>> Passengers can book their food beforehand, through email or SMS. The food will be provided by reputed chains, which will have a tie-up with the railways.
>> The seating arrangement will be a chair- car setup to accommodate more people.

Travellers give a thumbs-up
People who have travelled on bullet trains before said it's an experience of a lifetime.

Gauri Kamath, pharma and healthcare blogger
My experience in Tokyo's bullet train was fantastic, and it was as good as flying. I hope our bullet train compares with the best in the world. The goal of public transport should be to get people to prefer it over private transport.

Yogi Shah, CEO, The Backpackers Company
It is a great thing that bullet trains are going to start in Mumbai. Tourism is going to boom. This project will lead to better connectivity and more options for travelling. We can even save money by opting for the bullet train instead of flights. This is a positive step towards modernisation.

Gagandeep Singh Sapra, businessman
I have travelled in bullet trains in Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong, among other places. India also needs one because of population growth. It will be great if Mumbai can overcome land procurement challenges and get India's first bullet train.

Maninder Pal Singh, head, Maxima Commercial and Control
I had wonderful experiences in China, Taiwan, Europe and Korea. The connectivity there is obviously very good, and this is just India's first such project. I hope it's a new beginning.

Voices

Sanjay Pandit (45), Kandivli resident
The high-speed Mumbai to Ahmedabad corridor will prove to be a boon to regular travellers like me, who often have to visit Ahmedabad for business purposes. It will save a lot of time.

Jenis Makadia (35), Borivli resident
I travel to Ahmedabad thrice a month to meet my family members there. The high-speed corridor will help me get there in a very short span of time, making travelling very easy. I will then be able to go there four to five times a month.

Harshil Majithia (22), engineering student
My family is in Ahmedabad and I study in a college here. I cannot go home when I have less than a week off, because travelling takes up most of my time. When bullet train services are launched, I will be able to meet my parents whenever I want.

Pravin Sarvaiya, Charni Road resident
I have to travel to Ahmedabad often for business and the high-speed corridor will prove to be beneficial, since it will save a lot of time. I hope the rates are reasonable enough. It would be even better if authorities come up with a season ticket system for regular travellers.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 09 Jul 2014 12:24

520km: Approximate distance the train will cover
350kmph: The expected operating speed of the train
3-4 hours: The time it will take to reach Ahmedabad using the bullet train

The Tōkaidō Shinkansen between Osaka and Tokyo covers a distance of 515.4 km in about 2 hours 25 minutes (to Shinagawa, it takes 15-20 minutes less), with an operating speed of 270km/h.

That the Ahmedabad-Mumbai travel should take 3-4 hours, even when running at 350 km/h sounds very strange.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 09 Jul 2014 12:50

X-posted

On first reading I wasn't very impressed with the budget. However, on deeper reading I suspect that this is not the end to it. It shows a roadmap. So I expect things happening in the next year prior to the next budget. Judging from his previous comments Modi has vision of a modern railway system. So we should wait and watch what happens next.

I am not very high on HSR as I feel the existing system should get priority to develop to international std. However, if it can be done with minimum public finances I don't see any problem.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 09 Jul 2014 13:02

Kashi wrote:
520km: Approximate distance the train will cover
350kmph: The expected operating speed of the train
3-4 hours: The time it will take to reach Ahmedabad using the bullet train
The Tōkaidō Shinkansen between Osaka and Tokyo covers a distance of 515.4 km in about 2 hours 25 minutes (to Shinagawa, it takes 15-20 minutes less), with an operating speed of 270km/h.

That the Ahmedabad-Mumbai travel should take 3-4 hours, even when running at 350 km/h sounds very strange.

The mid-day article is Mumbai-centric, and it has left out almost all stops North of Vapi, which is unreasonable. I can guess at least Ahmedabad-Vadodara-Bharuch/Ankleshwar-Surat-Valsad-Vapi-Palghar-Virar-XX-BKC (ties in with the 50-100 KM inter-stop distance ).

The fastest Tokaido has only 4 intermediate stops http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2018_tokaido.html#nozomi .

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 09 Jul 2014 13:09

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 09 Jul 2014 13:16

prahaar wrote:The mid-day article is Mumbai-centric, and it has left out almost all stops North of Vapi, which is unreasonable. I can guess at least Ahmedabad-Vadodara-Bharuch/Ankleshwar-Surat-Valsad-Vapi-Palghar-Virar-XX-BKC (ties in with the 50-100 KM inter-stop distance ).

The fastest Tokaido has only 4 intermediate stops http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2018_tokaido.html#nozomi .

Yes and Nozomi is also the most frequent service on this section, the entire Shinkansen section for that matter- a train every 10 minutes or so. There are services with more intermediate stops such as Hikari rail star and Kodama (which stops at all stations en-route), but these are less frequent.

For the Mumbai-Ahmedabad section to be viable, it'll need to have more services of the Nozomi-type and less of the Hikari/Kodama types and it should certainly not take anywhere close to 3-4 hours.