India-US Relations : News and Discussion

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2015 02:22

electric car and charging station... start selling it all over the world especially to under-developed Africa (huge populations and no consumption of oil, these guys are still traveling on horses).

And they will charge it with what?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2015 02:44

When she and President Obama arrived in Riyadh from their visit to India, they stepped off Air Force One to be greeted by King Salman and an all-male Saudi delegation.
\Some of the men shook hands with Mrs. Obama while others gave her a nod as they passed by.

Phew! They are out of India!

P.S. She didn't cover her ankles!!

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Jan 2015 02:46

matrimc wrote:arshyam ji: nuclear power and nailing down thorium cycle would be one way for india to get out of the catch 22. But it has its own catch22 which is being broken by 123, if I understand correctly. If india and others develop viable thorium power tech, then dependency on oil will be reduced to a large extent. We are not going to see hard results soon but may be in 25 years or so the direction will be quite visible imho.

Agreed saar, Thorium is the future, and only that will help us think about uber stuff like electric cars. Even the currently proposed nuke plants from France, Russia, etc. will only cover our everyday needs, hopefully with some surplus left over so we can say goodbye to load shedding.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Jan 2015 03:24

The New York Times started writing about the rosy-bottomed creatures in the subcontinent in the 1940s—and has not let go even seven decades later, even as India was transformed from a brand new republic to one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Nirad C. Chaudhuri in his 'Autobiography of an unknown Indian' does explain that the colour based racism of the British was fully reciprocated by Indians.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jan 2015 04:24

Tuvaluan wrote:schinnas wrote:
Before we dismiss US' misadventures in middle east as egomaniacal mis-steps by Uncle Sam, we need to fully flush out the US strategic game plan for mid-east.
well put. The one question I have is: why are the saudis cooperating in this exercise that will bleed them dry in the long term, just like it is bleeding the other oil producers? Is is because the Saudi elite is invested in the USA and elsewhere sufficiently to make up for the loss of oil revenue in KSA with profits in the US stock market/investments?

The weak part of this US plan is that there is enough of the developing world that will not hesitate to do business with the other oil producers at the low prices -- which may also explain all the US BS about "global warming is the most serious problem in the world for the next 60,000 years" these days. They need to use other ways to keep oil consumption down by these emerging economies even as they spike the oil suppliers that are their enemies.

Saudis are cooperating for the following reasons:

- It hurts Iran which is the biggest threat they have
- It hurts Russia which is supporting the Assad regime
- It hurts the fracking crowd in US.

saip · Post by **saip** » 28 Jan 2015 04:31

UlanBatori wrote:
When she and President Obama arrived in Riyadh from their visit to India, they stepped off Air Force One to be greeted by King Salman and an all-male Saudi delegation.
\Some of the men shook hands with Mrs. Obama while others gave her a nod as they passed by.
Phew! They are out of India!

P.S. She didn't cover her ankles!!

She did not cover her head either (the way Mrs Clinton did)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Jan 2015 05:26

SBajwa wrote:Like I said!! Electric cars are already feasible (check Tesla) but the Car companies that use petrol have a lobby and thus we have Saudi Arabia!! If advances in tech are kept then in 10-20 years Saudi Arabia won't be able to sell their oil for water!

kisko chaiye electric cars.. i want to go to a station, swap a few fuel cells and keep going. toyota mirai is the turning point. operational difficulties is a big hurdle even if they can produce cheaper electric cars.. whereas, h2 production becoming cheaper is where some new inventions can happen. India can come up with some bang wang tech that surprises the world with some heavy funding from abroad.

make in india -> innovate in india, but first imitate (legally) followed by improvisations.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Jan 2015 05:41

saip wrote: P.S. She didn't cover her ankles!!

She did not cover her head either (the way Mrs Clinton did)[/quote]
Not really ..(From one of the old photo - on a state visit)

or this:

(Even in this visit, *all* other US women (C. Rice, Nancy Pelosi) did not cover their hair or head.)

For example

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jan 2015 05:43

KLNMurthy wrote: We already know the OT answer. It has to do with the "easy come easy go " nature of saudi culture; they don't have the civilizational outlook to invest in people's growth.

I would not write the Saudis off. With all that sand, when the oil runs out Saudis will become the world's leading exporters of hourglass egg timers.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 Jan 2015 05:46

Making a electric car is the "easy" part -- as UB points out, the harder part is ensuring that you have a live wall socket to plug it in whereever you go. Elon Musk's biggest problem in selling tesla cars is ensuring there are charging stations at the same frequency as petrol pumps, and that is not easy even in a country with excess power right now. May work in small countries in the EU, not in larger countries without creating the same level of infrastructure available to carbon fuels.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Jan 2015 06:20

Tuvaluan wrote:Making a electric car is the "easy" part -- as UB points out, the harder part is ensuring that you have a live wall socket to plug it in whereever you go.....

May discuss more in physics dhaga, but live wall socket is "easy" and making car is not "easy" in the sense to make an efficient battery. At present, for perspective (using physics alone and comparing energy per gm), auto-car battery (low end the type I have seen/used - not tesla type) gives about 125 J/gm -- about 300 times less than typical petrol (42000 J/gm)... If we can get better batteries, charging system will be technically easy.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 Jan 2015 06:28

AmberG wrote:

but live wall socket is "easy" and making car is not "easy" in the sense to make an efficient battery.

That is only in the technological sense (which has been solved by Tesla for the most part) which is less difficult than the commercial/business issues. I was referring to the commercial problems being harder to solve here that are stopping Tesla from increasing market share: (a) ensuring that the rare earth metals/lithium supply for the batteries to scale up production of the cars (b) creating the network of charging stations all over the planet to make these cars an attractive alternative (c) ensuring surplus power to ensure that (b) is economically viable.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Jan 2015 06:30

X-posted:

I see this entire visit from the point of view of series of f'ups by US in its relationship with India. It is apt to name some
- its treatment of devyani khobragade
- Its embassy staff and its organizations flouting Indian laws
- Its less than honest follow up on nuclear deal, Hyde act etc
- Its treatment of Indias elected chief minister, now PM on flimsy grounds and in disrespect of Indian supreme court
- its handling of terrorists named in 26/11
- Its continuous support of Pakistan despite its terror policy

In the current geo-political dynamic, it was imperative for US to do this visit and restore some (not all) semblance of normalcy to this relationship.

To above specific question of what to make of Obama's speech, my impression is that this type of address would have been very, very different if it was not for Modi's shrewedness to proactively dent the imaginary moral high ground American leaders tend to take towards Indians and if it was not from the above mentioned context.

Having said that, it was a fine balance between Obama the person, and Obama the US President.I absolutely have no qualms against Omaba the person and think his personal views of India are mostly benign.

As President, he is MMS of US in terms of originality (or lack thereof).

- first off, his usage of Telepromoter and pretending to speak impromptu does not engender trust. You either speak your mind/thoughts impromptu or read so at least we know you are being careful of what you say. Teleprompting gives an impression that you are acting and trying to be more natural than you really are.

- "Indians don't care about women" narrative is massively punctured by comprehensive display of women power in areas it is least expected. Even then, true to his form, does equal-equal on women rights. We all know that violence (specifically rape) against women in US is much more common than in India.

- Electricity - that is a tad over the top. Despite US, India will get there. Fear has always been that US will play spoilsport in undermining Indian interest. The value here is in US being not negative rather than being benignly positive. There is a difference.

- Global Warming - BS continues. US is the largest contributor by far and is hardly in position to lecture anyone. least to India. Painted himself less than honest there.

- highlighting Indian constitution being lengthiest due to India being a complex, massively diverse, democracy stymied pointing any fingers in that direction and any 'institutional' deficiencies.

Overall, a much better speech than my expectation. I expected much more condescending tone and infringing on Indian domestic issues. Thank you Obama.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jan 2015 06:51

Tuvaluan wrote:Making a electric car is the "easy" part -- as UB points out, the harder part is ensuring that you have a live wall socket to plug it in whereever you go. Elon Musk's biggest problem in selling tesla cars is ensuring there are charging stations at the same frequency as petrol pumps, and that is not easy even in a country with excess power right now. May work in small countries in the EU, not in larger countries without creating the same level of infrastructure available to carbon fuels.

OT here but for Indian cities cars are probably not the solution. Good mass public transport is probably a better idea. Indians cities are narrow lanes that are now getting clogged with cars. This is gradually building up to a crisis.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 28 Jan 2015 06:56

saip wrote:She did not cover her head either (the way Mrs Clinton did)

And neither did Smt. Gursharan Kaur!

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 28 Jan 2015 06:57

I think that an electricity-short country like India, hybrid cars are a better alternative than electric cars.

We spend a lot of time in stop-and-go traffic anyway. Might as well be charging the battery at that time.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 Jan 2015 07:18

Shiv wrote:

OT here but for Indian cities cars are probably not the solution. Good mass public transport is probably a better idea. Indians cities are narrow lanes that are now getting clogged with cars. This is gradually building up to a crisis.

Definitely agree -- getting hard to breathe in bangalore these days. IMO, this needs laws that empower the govt. to acquire the public/private resources, mainly land for these public transportation projects. Hopefully the ordinances on this front will get converted to laws in the next session. But OT so will stop.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 28 Jan 2015 07:29

shiv wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: We already know the OT answer. It has to do with the "easy come easy go " nature of saudi culture; they don't have the civilizational outlook to invest in people's growth.
I would not write the Saudis off. With all that sand, when the oil runs out Saudis will become the world's leading exporters of hourglass egg timers.

You mean hoorglass egg timers?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Jan 2015 07:34

Overall, a much better speech than my expectation. I expected much more condescending tone and infringing on Indian domestic issues. Thank you Obama.

Certainly Obama seems to be a fundamentally decent man, in as much as any politician can be. However I can foresee an Indian PM of an $8 trillion dollar economy giving a 'Positive News' thread type speech in Washington soon enough. You can bet notes have been made.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Jan 2015 07:39

How America Can Unleash India’s Massive Economic Potential
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/27/ho ... potential/

( But this will Pressure Vacuum Weld China and Paki Like Dog & Bitch to Produce Heen Poaqcheen Miskeen )

resident Barack Obama’s successful summit with Prime Minister Narendra Modi in New Delhi reminds us that India, no less than China, will help determine the future of Asia and the world – and that India and America are destined to be allies in support of peace and pluralism in the emerging global order.Modi underlined this point when he said the U.S.-India partnership would be instrumental in “shaping the character of this century.” India, after decades of sitting on the sidelines of global politics, would now assume its “responsibility” within an Indo-U.S. “global partnership,” he said. This marks the demise of India’s vexed tradition of non-alignment, which may once have suited a country that was weak and poor but makes no sense for a country that is rising and strong.After years of courtship, it appears Washington now has a partner in New Delhi it can do business with – and who is not embarrassed to align openly with the world’s superpower to advance India’s interests, as were previous leaders in New Delhi. The vision statement on Asian security agreed to at the summit aligns India with America and Japan in advocating a regional balance of power that is tilted towards Asia’s democracies rather than towards China. Indeed, the two leaders even discussed reconstituting the Quadrilateral Partnership comprising America, India, Japan, and Australia – a grouping China previously condemned as an “Asian NATO.”

Modi has argued that foreign policy starts at home, and that only a vigorous India that gets its domestic house in order will be respected abroad. The overarching objective of his grand strategy is to fuel economic growth at home so that India can improve both its people’s welfare and its security. Dramatic reforms to the country’s statist economy are essential to seed growth and produce the jobs necessary to employ what will become the world’s biggest workforce.This is where partnership with America comes in. As a technology and innovation superpower, the U.S. can offer new technology partnerships in the realms of energy, environment, defense, health care, education, and other fields to supercharge India’s development trajectory. A 2008 civilian nuclear energy deal, which has been dogged by legal issues, is one such technology partnership. Happily, Obama and Modi seem to have arrived at an understanding on how to finally implement it.India is teeming with human capital that is underutilized by its still-protected economy. It requires advanced technologies to unlock its productive potential, as well as massive foreign direct investment to help build infrastructure and a manufacturing base capable of generating large-scale employment. To this end, as a next step in strategic partnership, America and India should agree to leapfrog listless negotiations over a modest bilateral investment treaty in favor of a new kind of economic agreement that encompasses investment and trade in services as well as facilitating immigration of highly skilled workers.
As Modi and Obama discussed, Washington could also work with New Delhi to move India towards accession to the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum. This would require substantial liberalization of the Indian economy, which would benefit India even more than it would APEC.
New Delhi’s record of obstructionism in trade liberalization talks at the World Trade Organization, and its exclusion from the pending Trans-Pacific Partnership and Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiations, otherwise risk isolating it from the world’s most productive trade arrangements. Unlike in 1980, when imports and exports constituted about 15 percent of India’s GDP, today trade makes up almost half its economy. India’s competitiveness will slip if it is not anchored in liberalized commercial arrangements with the world’s leading economies.The same is true of energy. India is dangerously dependent on hydrocarbon imports, and vulnerable to a range of energy shocks that could upend growth. The United States is the world’s new energy superpower. It could offer long-term supply arrangements that boost India’s energy security — if India commits to the necessary reforms to take advantage of such a partnership.
India and the United States enjoy a lopsided relationship in which the closest cooperation occurs in the areas of defense and homeland security. This was evident at the Modi-Obama summit, where the leaders renewed a 10-year defense pact, expanded defense technology-sharing and co-production plans, and committed to greater cooperation on counter-terrorism.Yet U.S.-India trade and investment ties remain strangely underdeveloped — in striking contrast with China, whose U.S. trade is more than five times greater. This is somewhat perverse: whereas China is a strategic competitor to the United States, India is a strategic partner.President Obama therefore has a compelling interest in helping Modi deliver on the promise of his overwhelming election mandate: to spur the rapid and sustained economic growth that is the only solution to India’s underdevelopment, the surest source of its future security, a stabilizer of the Asian balance of power, and a new engine of global prosperity

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Jan 2015 07:43

Meanwhile == releases an old picture of POTUS (1956's vinatage!

) telling that "compare rides hidden inside the "beast" with "open" ride...
image

(From NPR -- which is making fun of Pak's khujali)

Link: Pakistanis View Obama's India Visit With A Touch Of Irritation

India has prompted Pakistanis to leaf back through their visitors' book with an aggrieved eye...
A black and white photograph captures a scene that could never happen today.

It shows an American president riding through the streets of a city in Pakistan in a gleaming horse-drawn carriage, as if he's the Queen of England.

The city is Karachi, in the days when American visitors were not obliged by the presence of Islamist militants to conceal themselves behind blast-proof walls, sandbags and razor wire.

The president is Dwight Eisenhower. As his cavalcade slides past an ocean of onlookers, he is standing beneath a parasol, smiling. Alongside him, waving to the crowd, is his host: Pakistan's ruler, Gen. Ayub Khan. It is 1959.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Jan 2015 07:49

There is nothing "strange" in the under-development of trade.

The US expectations can never be met by Indian work ethic. So, trade in goods along the lines of china will never happen. You see a state government refusing to let PoTUS on Taj Grounds is unimaginable in the US. Or China.

Expecting a super power to "arm" you is along the lines of non-NATO allies. Does India want to be awarded that major role?

Taking care of Pakistan will never receive a warm year in US SD.

Empty words, and money spent worse than a government grant.

Lets see if something comes out of the effort, platitudes once (in US), or twice (in India) may be ok. After that people tune out.

By the way, PBs year long sanyas is over. He is back in prime time with pent up enthusiasm.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 28 Jan 2015 08:09

US relations are important but they wont turn us into a world power.

There is no substitute for hard work.

They will continue to fling "co-development" initiatives at us but these will be very limited in scope and non-strategic.

The only way the US will respect us, is if we get our act together and unlock our own potential.

At the end of the day, the US is a society which is built around the protection of Judeo-Christian culture and values do not mesh well with our own.

Just use them like a condom when necessary and then discard them.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Jan 2015 08:15

Raja Bose wrote: ]I would not write te Saudis off. With all that sand, when the oil runs out Saudis will become the world's leading exporters of hourglass egg timers.
You mean hoorglass egg timers?

[/quote]

No use for Us , Yindians wont be satisfied till they get to see and fry the Rawal-PindilioWalo ka Gurda.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jan 2015 08:19

RoyG wrote: At the end of the day, the US is a society which is built around the protection of Judeo-Christian culture and values do not mesh well with our own.

Nitpick - it is a specific development of Protestant culture, more than a general "Judeo Christian culture"

One area of blindness we have had in India (as Hindus) is the lumping of all of Christianity and all of Islam together as one (perhaps because all those religions saw us as the same type of pagan). But there are big differences between Protestant and catholic as there are between Sunni and Shia. The nuances are important because of issues like celibacy, divorce and abortion. Hindus have views that are in agreement with Catholics or Protestants depending on the subject.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 28 Jan 2015 08:35

shiv wrote:
RoyG wrote: At the end of the day, the US is a society which is built around the protection of Judeo-Christian culture and values do not mesh well with our own.
Nitpick - it is a specific development of Protestant culture, more than a general "Judeo Christian culture"

One area of blindness we have had in India (as Hindus) is the lumping of all of Christianity and all of Islam together as one (perhaps because all those religions saw us as the same type of pagan). But there are big differences between Protestant and catholic as there are between Sunni and Shia. The nuances are important because of issues like celibacy, divorce and abortion. Hindus have views that are in agreement with Catholics or Protestants depending on the subject.

I agree. Protestant ethic and culture is more accurate. I see it more and more. What is interesting is the hispanic population. They seem to be moving away from Catholicism towards both Atheism and Protestantism.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jan 2015 08:44

RoyG wrote: I agree. Protestant ethic and culture is more accurate. I see it more and more. What is interesting is the hispanic population. They seem to be moving away from Catholicism towards both Atheism and Protestantism.

Protestantism was the "enlightened", "liberal" version of Christianity - although us pagans did not feel the difference so much. That "enlightenment and liberalism" is being passed off as Western Universalism. The Hispanics are probably telling family they have left behind in their home countries that they are backward, and need to move on to become like America.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 28 Jan 2015 08:48

Amber G. wrote:Meanwhile == releases an old picture of POTUS (1956's vinatage! ) telling that "compare rides hidden inside the "beast" with "open" ride...
image

(From NPR -- which is making fun of Pak's khujali)

Link: Pakistanis View Obama's India Visit With A Touch Of Irritation

From the article above, I found one of the comments hilarious.

Pakistan is 'Irritated'?

Response: Well, Boo [blank]-ing hoo!

And China says hello to its new 'All-Weather' friend? The same China that's doing their all-weather best to exterminate the Uighurs because of their troublesome muslim faith?

A Bit of Advice to the Politbureau: You already have ONE crazy girlfriend. And she's 'certifiable'...

THIS Girlfriend thinks she's 'High Maintenance' and well worth it.
Yet at the same time, she won't ditch her OTHER nasty Boyfriends: Tyrone 'Al Qaida' and Bill 'Taliban'. And they'll be sneaking in thru the back door every time you leave thru the front door to spend the money she just finished begging you for...And we ain't even bothering to tell you about all the DRAMA this girlfriend gets into every weekend when she spills your business all over the street while she curses you out for not paying her rent.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 28 Jan 2015 10:14

I'm still puzzled as to what PM Modi hoped to get out of this meeting.

Most Indians would be happy if the GOTUS switched from active hostility regarding India to benign neglect. However, as the example of David Coleman Headley proves, the GOTUS is not willing to do that. Just listen to Pres. Obama's hypocritical and meddlesome remarks regarding religious freedom. (They're hypocritical because the U.S. government is at the forefront of supporting jihadism around the globe.) In the past two years, Pres. Obama has unleashed jihadists on Syria and neo-Nazis on the Ukraine. And yet PM Modi thought it appropriate to hug him?

The biggest problem in Indo-US relations is that both sides have unrealistic expectations of the other. India needs to get its house in order first. Beyond that, if Indian and American leaders have to meet, the meetings should be business-like. That will reduce future misunderstandings on both sides.

Also, regarding China, there are many people within the GOTUS who would be thrilled to see India and China destroy each other. Regarding Western promises of friendship, keep in mind that Gaddafi was the toast of Europe a few years before Westerners decided to murder him.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 28 Jan 2015 10:29

ramana wrote:Now that the visit is over can someone summarize what was achieved?
In real and virtual terms.

Thanks,

ramana

I think the biggest achievement is China's conditional/cautious support for our inclusion in the NSG. I'm remember their previous stance as blocking it. If that's not the case, please ignore the post.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Jan 2015 10:55

Nothing of real substance came out of the visit -- the 10 year renewal thing is basically it so far. Nothing of substance has changed re. china's positions.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 28 Jan 2015 11:00

So...... Ombaba was lecturing us about "understanding" between religions and then shows us by example by FLOTUS respecting Islam by refusing to wear burqa and visiting the new Saudi Barbarian king with her bare face showing.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 28 Jan 2015 11:00

shiv wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: We already know the OT answer. It has to do with the "easy come easy go " nature of saudi culture; they don't have the civilizational outlook to invest in people's growth.
I would not write the Saudis off. With all that sand, when the oil runs out Saudis will become the world's leading exporters of hourglass egg timers.

I understand sand itself is not cheap. Sand prices have gone up in the market, and there are sand mafias all over India. So Saudis will keep selling bits of their land for cash, whether it is dead dinosaurs or dirt.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 28 Jan 2015 11:01

Shreeman wrote:Nothing of real substance came out of the visit -- the 10 year renewal thing is basically it so far. Nothing of substance has changed re. china's positions.

Baki khujli was probably the only thing.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Jan 2015 11:05

^^^ Good sharif probably met POTUS in saudi barbaria. The rest of the noise is for indian public consumption. Dont over sell it.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Jan 2015 11:20

Shreeman wrote:^^^ Good sharif probably met POTUS in saudi barbaria. The rest of the noise is for indian public consumption. Dont over sell it.

Two birds with one stone. Smart recovery by the US

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 28 Jan 2015 12:04

ramana wrote:Now that the visit is over can someone summarize what was achieved?
In real and virtual terms.

Thanks,

ramana

Reading some of the putdowns of the achievements of this visit reminds me of the scene from the 1950s Telugu comedy masterpiece Maya Bazaar, in which Sarma and Sastry, two brahmins who are assigned by the bridegroom's party (kauravas) to sneer at the wedding arrangements made by the bride's party. The duo are taken to the dining hall, and the various dishes for the wedding feast are proudly pointed out to them:

Bride's rep: And here are pulihora, chitraannam, pongali, blah blah blah (long list of gourmet rice dishes)
Sarma-Sastry: Well, ok, that is just rice then.

Bride's rep: Kindly review the different gourmet curries--brinjal, potato, pumpkin, ... blah blah blah...
Sarma-Sastry: ok, fine, vegetables. Big deal.

And so it goes on with the bride's party guys valiantly trying to impress the two brahmins, who continue to hint that the feast is missing the real deal, the haute-est of haute cuisine delicacies, and the bride's party are bumpkins for not knowing what it is. Unbeknownst to the two brahmins, the bride's party people are actually rakshasas in disguise, assigned by Lord Krishna to play a huge practical joke on the arrogant kauravas. Sarma and Sastry's snobbish sneering eventually manages to frustrate the rakshasas--who are visibly struggling to suppress their true nature and refrain from devouring the two annoying brahmins, till one of the rakshasas has a brainwave and decides that the mystery missing item must be human flesh. So, to the dismay and horror of our brahmins, the rakshasas scamper off to fetch that delicacy for Sarma and Sastry's enjoyment.

There are a handful of fairly solid achievements from the Obama visit:
* clearing the way for sale of US nuke plants to India
* start of "make in India" weapons manufacturing
* closer security links including a hotline

Aside from the defense co-operation deals--whose boring routine nature is itself a testament to the robustness and long lasting nature of the relationship, there are a bunch of "declarations of intent" which suggest that India and the US will align their global security visions.

But overall, it is the intangible steps to reflect at the governmental level the friendship, smooth relationships, and often genuine affection, between Indian and American people that are the most impressive steps forward. Obama said as much at one point in the joint press conference: Modi and I are best friends today because our people want us--their PM and President respectively--to be friends and do friend-type things together.

What Modi and Obama did in the big picture was to harmonize the governmental-level relationship with the already-existing relationship between Indians and Americans--somewhat complicated and often troubled but overall very warm and open. This I consider to be very significant, not least because it builds seamlessly on the foundation laid by the Manmohan Singh government first with Bush and then with Obama, despite the fact that Modi is Manmohan's polar opposite in almost every way. That one fact is what indicates that PMs and Presidents may come and go but the relationship will remain solid. What the countries make of it, or who is in the driver's seat at which time, are all variables and functions of both history and the capabilities and strengths of the leaderships on both sides.

This kind of assessment won't satisfy jingos who won't be pleased unless "bania Modi" has sucked last penny out of "stupid", "evanjehadi" Americans, followed by "Hindutva Modi" hoisting the tiranga on the White House and the Capitol. And nothing that Modi does will satisfy Congress partisans who are only prevented from a more vigorous criticism of the visit both by the fact that Sonia and Rahul are both intellectually rather limited, as well as being intimidated by America.

But Modi, as far as I can gauge, doesn't think like that. I think he is really fond of America at a deep personal level--despite the personal hurt the US government had caused him, and really believes that India's position of Viswa Guru is best achieved by working with America. What Modi says about the wonders of democracy is not lip service; he is democratic to the core, and wants to work with other democracies, obviously with the US par excellence.

Modi is a bania from Gujarat to be sure, but (a) I think he believes in a fair, dharmic business relationship and not an exploitative one and (b) he is SDRE in the sense that he values friendship for itself, without measuring every interaction with money and (c) he is a highly intelligent (not necessarily in the sense of being able to solve 10th order diophantine equation in the bathroom) person, very comfortable with complexity and contradictions in a relationship, but always--by his own admission--focusing on the positive and humane aspects.

Finally, Modi is a strong individual, who has proved himself to be not shakeable by sniping and carping criticisms, not to speak of outright vicious abuse heaped on him for years together. So, we are not going to find him resorting to extreme measures out of sheer frustration and delivering the "human flesh" of outright sale of the country to America or hostility to America.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 28 Jan 2015 12:20

A very nice post KLNM. Pleasure to read. Thank you.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Jan 2015 12:49

There is a deep-rooted mistrust of the US in India primarily because of its long-standing "rent-boy" romance with the Pakis. The relationship has been stunted mainly because of this factor.The US laeblling India as an "enemy" during the Cold War,the '71 war,etc. hasn't helped at all. Intrusive US inspections for any def. tech transferred is a bore to India,who can acquire the best that Russia has to offer,or Israel and France even, if we are willing too pay the price. Just look at the ease with which the N-plants deal with Russia has been signed with Putin.No great hoopla or hype but a relatively trouble free deal.

I still cannot understand the limited insurance liability of a measly $300M for any plant failure/catastrophe,when the Fukushima disaster has cost Japan $200billion! The N-plant suppliers must be popping champagne and laughing their way to the banks! Has the BJP and Mr.Modi and the atomic dept. advisers been so ill-informed about this? I would post an insurance sum of at least $10B for any such disaster. One doesn't know the exact details of the contours of the deal wit Russia are,but surely a decent sum is required for compensation.

The major gain of the visit is that the anti-US sentiment has been broken to a large extent.Now this is primarily due to the O'Bomber-Modi factor.It does NOT indicate any relaxation of mentality by the US establishment or weakening of the Indian establishment's wariness either. In a way,this is a mirror reflection of the Bush-MMS ties,but with one significant decision.O'Bomber is a lame-duck pres. ,with just 2 years remaining,while Bush was at the peak of his popularity. "The devil is in the details",as they say.We have to wait and see how the goodwill that has been created by the top leadership of both nations filters down into the establishment and fast -tracked for success. There will be plenty of spoil-sports on both sides.

As an aside,the US will try to weaken the BRICS setup as much as poss. by trying to seduce Mr.Modi with "birds in the bush". The snide remarks about Russia and Iran were very undiplomatic by the US pres while on Indian soil,as India has valuable ties with both nations esp. Russia who supply 70% of our arms and with whom we have the most important defence JVs in the works.. One is sure that both nations will have noted the same and that their envoys will be asking their Indian counterparts about the visit and India's stand on several issues. The tamasha is now over and the nitty-gritty work has to start. Overnight great changes are unlikely.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Jan 2015 12:53

KLNM,

These are not putdowns. Note the details of the major announcements.

1. Resign 10 year defense thing -- ok, no 3 day visit worthy.
2. Nuke deal -- Unless there is legal movement in the parliament backtracking on unlimited liability, this is not going anywhere.
3. Joint projects -- The government projects are pie in the sky (cant even do a howitzer togethet, but want to do aircraft carrier?). With whom will you explore this? Its not like NASA does aircraft carriers.
4. Raven -- really? Isnt this just rice? The fear of bakis going apeshit over "UCAV" means we must say Raven. That will kill the few small UAV manufacturers that were cropping up.
5. Engines -- Not even a second lot of 404, nor 414 firm orders. But GTX redevelopment?

Some are rice and vegetables here -- engines, Raven, 10 years resign, etc. The rest could be big but wont pan out for another 5 years.

So the skepticism is merited. All those CEOs, not a single announcement. What is ordinary, is ordinary. Doesnt mean its not worth doing, but also doesnt mean extraordinary.

Now will they release all the cost numbers for the trip + 1/26 extra security? How will we evaluate success? Do we count the Kerry 250M bribe? Is that not bothersome?