LCA News and Discussions

member_22868 · Post by **member_22868** » 26 Apr 2013 09:00

LCA Flight test update

From

LCA-Tejas has completed 2134 Test Flights Successfully. (23-April--2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-364,LSP1-74,LSP2-260,PV5-36,LSP3-121,LSP4-72,LSP5-165,LSP7-34,NP1-4,LSP8-2)

to

LCA-Tejas has completed 2136 Test Flights Successfully. (25-April--2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-364,LSP1-74,LSP2-261,PV5-36,LSP3-121,LSP4-72,LSP5-166,LSP7-34,NP1-4,LSP8-2)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Apr 2013 09:07

2nd flight of lsp-8 has already flown, and we are still waiting to see the video.

======
revisiting the video back again..

holly mackerel!!!

check out the missile firing at 1:10 and again at 1:45. @1:40 ish, the target is destroyed in mid-air.. i am sure it is a lakshya or abhyas or their trail.

The target is destroyed exactly at 1:48 -> check the splash!

Be sure you set this to 1080p and run it at 0.25x speed in full screen mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqN5xsY9 ... detailpage

and don't open the below link without watching the @1:48 event
http://www.sequoiaprod.com/wordpress/wp ... Jalebi.jpg

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Apr 2013 19:17

I had a detailed post reg. our order of battle by 2020 ,new aircraft,upgrades,etc. but lost it in cyberspace! The crux of the matter was that we would have barely 700+ new aircraft ,Flankers,first batch of Rafales,upgrades to Jags,M-2000s,MIG-29s and LCAs (even if production targets are met) by then,perhaps a few FGFAs,with a shortfall of about 100-200 required to face the new combined threat from the PRC and Pak.This gap also due to the shelving of the AMCA,which was meant to replace a bunch of med. sized aircraft,has to be met by a cost-effective solution of a further acqusition of existing aircraft,of which the MIG29/35 appears to be the right soution.

Bharat Karnad had a scathing piece in the Deccan Chronicle today,saying that the DRDO had met only 29% of its projected goals thus far.It requires much comment.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130426/c ... /zero-drdo

Zero for DRDO
Bharat Karnad | 10 hours 31 min ago

The Indian Air Force has been clever over the years in a petty sort of way. Short-range or medium-range combat aircraft and so on are uniquely IAF nomenclature; no other Air Force has such categories. In the age of aerial tankers, describing warplanes by their radii of action is a distraction.

Forty years ago the IAF invented another category of warplanes — “deep penetration and strike aircraft”, which permitted the purchase of Jaguar. The IAF sees this sort of thing as a harmless ruse to serve its interest.

The multiplicity of combat aircraft thus procured allows, the service believes, in a crisis to at least have some squadrons in its fleet not subject to sanctions or the spares-and-servicing tourniquet, which supplier countries in greater or lesser measure always apply, depending on their foreign policy goals and national interests of the moment, and which tool of manipulation is now legitimated by the recent Arms Trade Treaty.

This policy of buying aircraft from diverse sources was first articulated in a 2006 note from Air Headquarters (AHQ) to the ministry of defence (MoD), which stated that the requirement for a sub-30-ton fully loaded combat aircraft was being deliberately proposed to escape the Russian stranglehold, and avoid going in for more Sukhoi-30 MKIs or the upgraded variant the “Super” Sukhois. Thus, Rafale passed the spurious test, clocking in at 27 tons. Of course, the IAF-invented range-dictated categories serve another purpose. They confuse generalist civil servants in the MoD and convincing clueless politicians that there are big gaps in combat aircraft numbers which need filling.

In this game of “fool you, fool me”, where the IAF is being jerked around by supplier countries, the threat to national security stays unaddressed. IAF is principally to blame, of course. But the inability of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and other Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) units tasked with aircraft and on-board systems designs, and the sheer incompetence of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) are equally responsible.

So criminally negligent has HAL been that in all the years it assembled a variety of MiG-21s, MiG-27s, MiG-29s, and the Jaguar, and the power plants for each of these aircraft at its Koraput factory, it failed to maintain a database. In other words, for all the licence manufacturing it has done over the years, by failing to compile how every component in the aircraft and in the engines does what and how, it has learnt nothing.

Had HAL maintained a database of all the items it has put together, the country by now would have had the built-up capability to manufacture the Tejas Mk-I and Mk-II on the run. But this defence public sector unit has reduced itself to an adjunct of supplier companies. That top HAL leadership has not been brought to account on this score and that the Indian taxpayer continues funding such profligacy only reflects the state of things.

DRDO, on its part, has prospered by creating illusion. Other than in certain areas, such as in writing sophisticated software and devising complex algorithms to drive military systems, DRDO projects are mostly scams. Behind every project that’s touted for realising “self-sufficiency” lies imported technology in some guise. In fact, it has been so grossly inept in not insisting on total transfer of technology from its partners that foreign defence firms happily strike deals in which Indian monies fund the development of state-of-the-art technology in other countries but get nothing out of it except finished high-cost products.

It is not the fault of the supplier firms that DRDO has proved so inattentive, gullible, and plain reckless with public monies. Take for example the advanced medium-range and long-range missile systems supposedly being collaboratively developed with Israel. Except in striking a contract for `15,000 crore, DRDO settled for only a work-share arrangement and that too to fabricate the low-value backend of these missile systems, with the Israeli company retaining the intellectual property rights on all the technology so developed.

A similar deal for a short-range missile system with Dassault Aviation has just been signed and another `30,000 crore is consequently going down the drain. Because in this business suckers are not given an even chance, the foreign companies can hardly be blamed for exploiting DRDO’s unwillingness to leverage India’s financial subsidy to obtain full proprietary and production rights for all technologies generated in such projects. So what is the department of defence finance doing other than sleeping on the job?

If DRDO brass were to be hauled up, it would be like pulling out a foundational stone that could bring the whole fraudulent public sector defence industrial edifice that, notwithstanding its claims, has produced no original technology after the Marut HF-24 in the 1970s, tumbling down. It is the reason why the Naresh Chandra Committee’s recommendation that the offices of scientific adviser to defence minister, head of DRDO, and secretary defence R&D be separated, may never get implemented. There are too many vested interests in the armed services, DRDO, and DPSUs who have it good to want this situation to change.

Coming back to Rafale, had Reliance Aerospace gone about it the right way it could have emulated Larsen & Tubro (L&T), which has indigenously developed the engineering, tooling, and manufacturing capability to locally produce everything from nuclear-powered and conventional submarines of any design to artillery systems. This proactive attitude to build up its all-round capability means it is in a position to benefit from “transfer of technology” portions of deals for high-value weapons platforms India has signed in the past two decades, and very quickly to absorb foreign technologies India pays for but which, owing to the complete inability and incompetence of defence public sector units, has to-date not capitalised on. We are talking cumulatively of waste now reaching the thousand billion dollar-level.

If the L&T business model is too onerous, Reliance Aerospace, instead of turning itself into a mere cog in the Dassault Aviation machine by channelling payoffs to the right quarters in the ruling party to lubricate the Rafale deal, could have tried to buy off large chunks of the Rafale-maker, Dassault Aviation itself, as the Tatas have done by purchasing the South African company Denel’s entire 155mm/52 calibre Howitzer line. That might have been the second-best strategy to become a commercially viable defence production entity in double-quick time and do right by the country as well.

The writer is a professor at the Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 26 Apr 2013 19:55

^^^^
Hey Ram! Another one, another vomit about DRDO! Calling the projects at DRDO as scams is a little rich for someone with little technical background.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 26 Apr 2013 20:06

1. It is good to see that Bharat Karnad trying to be more accurate in some of his facts at least. In this article he has thankfully not called the Jaguar an MRCA like he did in an earlier piece

http://bharatkarnad.com/2011/11/09/weak-lightning/

2. The Armed Forces have never been given a stake and ownership in the "indigenous" defence programs, and from that root cause manifested in other areas by the civilian control of the MoD, spring a whole lot of problems. Isn't it a coincidence that the service with the most success with desi platforms is the one which has the most input through the Naval Design Bureau. There are a host of other reasons but this is central.

3. The DRDO's move to partner with foreign firms should be seen as a best of the worst scenario and in examples like Brahmos it has actually worked, where each partner has known what they are bringing to the table, not under it.

4. It is good to contrast the L&T private sector approach with what Reliance is trying to pull off, though it is just good PR by the Tatas that they are any better. Most of their ambitious defence JVs with folks like IAI etc. are just a fig leaf for sticking on a Made in India label.

...but in the end the LCA will still turn out to be the IAF's Arjun - a symbol of what happens when the client has no stake and ownership in a project.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 26 Apr 2013 20:13

SaiK wrote: check out the missile firing at 1:10 and again at 1:45. @1:40 ish, the target is destroyed in mid-air.. i am sure it is a lakshya or abhyas or their trail.

It is a flare.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 26 Apr 2013 20:17

Why this doom and gloom suddenly about LCA. From where I see it, it can only succeed. It is 'almost' there. If IAF had any sense, they should order it at LSP-8 standard. It can drop bombs and fire AA missiles (even in heat seeking so far). IAF realistically need upwards of 55 sq to face both TSPAF and PLAAF. PLAAF can easily transfer many of its air asset to TSPA (piloted with PLAAF) and suddenly two front war of dominating TSP and holding against PLAAF becomes trying to hold against both. With only 35 SQ to 40 SQ, it will be hold and loose and pray UN to come for a ceasefire. If IAF wants to be a real AF not an honorary one, it has to have numbers, and you cannot get to that number without LCA. Our Economy will not be able to support 55-75 sq of imported maal.
I guess, we all suffer from, made out of India is best, in India is worst. Hopefully, the government will change, a nationalistic government will come, and hopefully we will have IAF Brass that is less like ACM Tyagi and more like real ACMs. Well then LCA has a future.
rgds,
fanne

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 26 Apr 2013 20:42

fanne wrote: If IAF had any sense, they should order it at LSP-8 standard.

That is what it is doing!!!!

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 26 Apr 2013 20:55

Indranil Sir, meaning now, why wait for IOC-2, Pre FOC, Paune FOC, Sawa FOC, Dedh FOC and the maybe FOC---, FOC --, FOC - and eventually FOC. All these targets may take a decade to fulfill.
rgds,
fanne

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 26 Apr 2013 21:36

fanne wrote:Indranil Sir, meaning now, why wait for IOC-2, Pre FOC, Paune FOC, Sawa FOC, Dedh FOC and the maybe FOC---, FOC --, FOC - and eventually FOC. All these targets may take a decade to fulfill.
rgds,
fanne

That is too smart for me to even comprehend

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 26 Apr 2013 21:42

From HAL-Connect Issue 67.

This must be critical to Tejas mid-air relight procedures. Wonderful innovation shown.

AERDC Design Team’s Idea Recognised
The requirement of three consecutive starts for LCA main engine has been a long time need. The JFS (GTSU-110) was modified for improved lubrication to achieve three consecutive starts with a time gap of 75 seconds between two successive starts. The demonstration could not be done till now because the flywheel which was connected to the output shaft of the GTSU-110 takes six minutes to come to stop.

The AERDC team members K. H. Venkatesha, Manager and S. Esakki Muthu, Senior Manager(Design) came out with an innovative method
to brake the flywheel with air impingement on the fir-tree section of the flywheel to stop it within 70 seconds of time. The novel idea was executed in one week and three consecutive starts were demonstrated in front of the committee members from IAF, ADA, RCMA(E) and ORDAQA(E). HAL has recognised the work and Certificate of Commendation was given to the team members during the AERDC Culture of Continuous Learning function.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 26 Apr 2013 21:47

ptayal wrote:LCA Flight test update
LCA-Tejas has completed 2136 Test Flights Successfully. (25-April--2013).

I always wanted my post count to be less than the number of Tejas test flights. So, here's taking a break from posting regularly till Tejas catches up. Keep them flying, a lot is at stake

.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 27 Apr 2013 01:44

SaiK wrote:There is a big international force to ensure we are not successful with Kaveri. Just imagine a Kaveri with near 100kN wet, and 60kN dry.. is enough to replace most mig-29 engines.

a 100kN kaveri will satisfy:
LCA Mk++
AMCA
Migs - all series
MMRCA
and other a/cs (except the heavy sukhois)

I am not able to understand this with limited web knowledge. Is not Kaveri already good enough with 52kN dry thrust/80kN afterburner in category of say Russian RD33-Mig35 or France Snecma88-Rafale?

In case of Tejas mk2 it can be used in 1X2Kaveri till better one is available. As I see it Mig35 or perhaps Tejas mk2 has enough scope in specification to carry 500kg-2tonns of weight allocated for engine till Kaveri-2 comes online. Have to begin somewhere so perhaps Tejas mk2 can begin with Kaveri and rest assured when Kaveri2 arrives the weight issues will only mean bonus-relative for other features.

Considering also that Tejas mk2 will take much less time than Tejas1 overall this arrangement can reduce time as well as give some early testing experience with Kaveri on flying conditions.

Just suggestions that may appear as favourable.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Apr 2013 02:38

And, just for kicks, the French also said they would help with a Kaveri in the Rafale.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 27 Apr 2013 02:43

Question is Kaveri ready to flow down the manufacturing line?
Do we line to make this engine
Do we ancillaries to make parts
Now where is it said that Kaveri in shape form ready to mate with a airframe
If it is atleast make some trainers no

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Apr 2013 04:47

indranilroy wrote:
SaiK wrote: check out the missile firing at 1:10 and again at 1:45. @1:40 ish, the target is destroyed in mid-air.. i am sure it is a lakshya or abhyas or their trail.
It is a flare.

I am not talking about chaff and flare. I am talking about AA missile. Observe @0.25x speed and at 1:48 exact, for the flash at a distance .. actually, there is a trail left by the airborne target too. to enjoy this, ensure you set the video to 1080p, full screen as well. if you have a 1080p display, even better.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 27 Apr 2013 09:08

The first LCA dropped a flare. We can see it at 1:22.
The Second LCA takes that flare out with a heat seeking missile.

Can people identify the airfield where they take off from, the airfield that they flyover and the airbase they eventually land at?
I know the answers

member_22868 · Post by **member_22868** » 27 Apr 2013 09:39

they're all the same...uttarlai base

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 27 Apr 2013 10:27

Gagan wrote:The first LCA dropped a flare. We can see it at 1:22.
The Second LCA takes that flare out with a heat seeking missile.

Can people identify the airfield where they take off from, the airfield that they flyover and the airbase they eventually land at?
I know the answers

I think the airbase they take-off and land is Jaisalmer

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Apr 2013 15:44

SaiK wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqN5xsY9 ... detailpage

and don't open the below link without watching the @1:48 event
http://www.sequoiaprod.com/wordpress/wp ... Jalebi.jpg

Beautiful video. The only thing that leaves me feeling empty is because I am yet to see the usual imbecile nincompoop comment that he would have liked to have heard some other music. A video is complete only when a brain dead person watches a beautiful aircraft video and complains about the music.

vic · Post by **vic** » 27 Apr 2013 16:16

indranilroy wrote:
fanne wrote: If IAF had any sense, they should order it at LSP-8 standard.
That is what it is doing!!!!

Actually IIRC it is IOC-2 standard.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 27 Apr 2013 16:57

Ya,
Takeoff and Landing from Jaisalmer. There are new additions to the main runway - new top, instead of the camoflauge.
New exits off the runway.
LCA takes off in like a 1000 meters - it is airborne well before the hillock there.

The airbase they fly over is Uttarlai indeed.

IAF now has these open covers in most airbases to protect crew and airplanes from the harsh sun, and prying eyes overhead

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Apr 2013 20:31

shiv wrote:
SaiK wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqN5xsY9 ... detailpage

and don't open the below link without watching the @1:48 event
http://www.sequoiaprod.com/wordpress/wp ... Jalebi.jpg
Beautiful video. The only thing that leaves me feeling empty is because I am yet to see the usual imbecile nincompoop comment that he would have liked to have heard some other music. A video is complete only when a brain dead person watches a beautiful aircraft video and complains about the music.

I was astonished at no response from Indranilroy, and then I was thinking this is not what i see is what you all see. So, here is my help:

Set your HTML5 video setup using this help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNDwKP1rnSE

and then you will watch this: at 0.25x slow motion speed.

That is how, I got this:
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3192 ... tflash.png

please remember this pic shows video paused at that instant. The flash is created by taget/hit to kill/proximity of the AA missile. watch the video first with html5 setup.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Apr 2013 20:51

SaiK wrote: I was astonished at no response from Indranilroy, and then I was thinking this is not what i see is what you all see. So, here is my help:

That is how, I got this:
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3192 ... tflash.png

please remember this pic shows video paused at that instant. The flash is created by taget/hit to kill/proximity of the AA missile. watch the video first with html5 setup.

I know what you are speaking of. But that is the telltale trail of a chaff. Also notice that the target is going straight to the ground.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Apr 2013 20:55

did you watch the video with settings I said?

veerav · Post by **veerav** » 27 Apr 2013 20:56

The first LCA dropped a flare. We can see it at 1:22.
The Second LCA takes that flare out with a heat seeking missile.

It looks the scenario is unlikely since there is a huge risk to the first LCA. The IR missile could mistakenly lock on to it rather than the flare. But the smoke trail did indicate that some thing is going towards the flare and ended with a bang. Something is missing here.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Apr 2013 21:10

SaiK wrote:did you watch the video with settings I said?

Yes. It revealed nothing new.

P.S. Don't worry about the target. It looked like a LOBL. It validated that tejas can track and acquire the target, pass it on to the missile and successfully launch it. All work by Tejas was finished the moment it fired the missile. The rest depended on the missile.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Apr 2013 21:34

.

but then, mission completion reports is what the next gen ops would be all about.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Apr 2013 21:39

SaiK wrote: .

but then, mission completion reports is what the next gen ops would be all about.

I did not understand that. The mission was to take out the chaff. And it was completed, wasn't it?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Apr 2013 21:46

aah! so you are saying the mission was to take out the chaff? and this is exactly i don't see in the slow motion video.. I see the trail of the target. The AA missile leaves LCA platform to hit the target in mid-air. and in seconds there is a flash at the end point of the trail at the horizon end. LCA nose turns away then.

So, now comes the question: what is the chaff target size? can that be taken out by our heat seekers? would that be a good mission ? I am not able to understand that mission. However, I am willing to take the test to be a target that is tied to abhyas or something on that line.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 28 Apr 2013 02:43

SaiK wrote:aah! so you are saying the mission was to take out the chaff? and this is exactly i don't see in the slow motion video.. I see the trail of the target. The AA missile leaves LCA platform to hit the target in mid-air. and in seconds there is a flash at the end point of the trail at the horizon end. LCA nose turns away then.

Yes, the mission is that. Ofcourse it is a simulation. A cheap one for demonstration purposes. It has been used by the IAF on all the demos for the babus and mango people. At the height at which the target was engaged, you would not have seen a plume from the a gus-burning engine of Lakshya or Abhyas. Hint, do you see a plume from Tejas engines?

SaiK wrote: So, now comes the question: what is the chaff target size? can that be taken out by our heat seekers? would that be a good mission ? I am not able to understand that mission. However, I am willing to take the test to be a target that is tied to abhyas or something on that line.

The chaff is very small. Ofcourse, it can be taken out by heat seeking missiles (think about it, that is the goal of a chaff, to attract the missile towards itself rather than the aircraft). In combat, ofcourse the mission would involve missing the chaffs and hitting the actual aircraft. But for demos, you can't take out aircrafts.

Abhyas won't have anything tied to it. It is an expendable target. So, it will be taken out in any exercise. But it is not ready yet. They are building the first prototypes now. Lakshya of course can have towed targets.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Apr 2013 03:48

good reasoning.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2013 06:29

The target is a special flare suspended by a small parachute.
Even in Iron Fist, where the IAF fires off the SAM, there was a flare that was dropped by an IAF aircraft which rapidly exited the area. The SAM then took out the flare close to a minute later.

Here, again, the first LCA drops off the flare while it is putting out chaff, and rapidly exits the general area. The parachute deploys and the flare falls down slowly. Meanwhile the second LCA acquires the flare and then fires off its heat seeking missile. There is a tiny explosion seen on the video as the Missiles explodes in close vicinity to the flare and the target is 'taken out'.

vina · Post by **vina** » 28 Apr 2013 08:03

Gagan wrote:The target is a special flare suspended by a small parachute.
Even in Iron Fist, where the IAF fires off the SAM, there was a flare that was dropped by an IAF aircraft which rapidly exited the area. The SAM then took out the flare close to a minute later.

Here, again, the first LCA drops off the flare while it is putting out chaff, and rapidly exits the general area. The parachute deploys and the flare falls down slowly. Meanwhile the second LCA acquires the flare and then fires off its heat seeking missile. There is a tiny explosion seen on the video as the Missiles explodes in close vicinity to the flare and the target is 'taken out'.

Yes. Exactly. Also it looks like that this was an "off boresight" shot using the helmet for cueing the missile. The plane is not right astern of the target at 6 o clock, but the target is at roughly 2 o clock position from the plane. As the missile is fired , it goes straight ahead in the heading of the plane and then turns right as it tracks the target and home in.

So really the " basic air to air" capability is well demonstrated here, and with high off boresight missiles like the r-73 and Python 5 , sustained turn rates to manoeuvre and get at the opponent's six o clock is not crucial like it was until the mid 90s.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Apr 2013 08:52

vina wrote:So really the " basic air to air" capability is well demonstrated here, and with high off boresight missiles like the r-73 and Python 5 , sustained turn rates to manoeuvre and get at the opponent's six o clock is not crucial like it was until the mid 90s.

I think flying quality of an aircraft ( STR,ITR,Speed etc ) would still give an aircraft an edge if it is faced with an enemy that has similar performance missile with HOBS capability , so nose pointing is not needed in this era of high off bore shots but if you have an aircraft with superior flying quality it would give the pilot an edge all things being equal. Obviously you never know you might end up with classic gun fight

Flying quality would also comes into play if you have a missile up your tail and with a good EW/CMDS and little pray to save your day.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Apr 2013 09:00

a current gen imaging infrared seeker would differentiate between a flare and a/c heat source.. so it would be interesting how python-5 and lca, would take on a flare on test mission.

like we discussed earlier, if it is the capability of air-air, yes LCA has arrived now. done bombings, etc earlier.. a precision land target cluttered among various obstacles needs to be seen to know more about its SAR radar. And for naval LCA, it would not be that difficult to take a surface one.

vina · Post by **vina** » 28 Apr 2013 09:59

Austin wrote:I think flying quality of an aircraft ( STR,ITR,Speed etc ) would still give an aircraft an edge if it is faced with an enemy that has similar performance missile with HOBS capability , so nose pointing is not needed in this era of high off bore shots but if you have an aircraft with superior flying quality it would give the pilot an edge all things being equal. Obviously you never know you might end up with classic gun fight

Well, not saying that any of that is not important, but if you have such a capability, but the opponent doesn't you probably will win. Think of the Falklands war. The RN Harriers had the AIM-L, the Lima version could engage all aspect, including head on, without needing to get on the opponent's tail pipe. Net result, the Argentine Mirage III and Super Entendards with probably far better field performance than the harrier (Mirage III most definitely) got shot down by the Harriers. And for Syrian Migs (a total 100 ?) shot down over the Bekaa valley by the Israelis, it was a Turkey shoot.

The bigger point is that the helmet /missile combo is shown to work in the LCA and it has a pretty decent A2A right now and getting the BVR radar guided missile tested and proven on it is only a matter of time .

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 28 Apr 2013 10:18

Looking at the video @2.41 Does this mean wake penetration tests and the handling incorporated in flight laws has been completed?
It would be interesting to get a confirmation..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Apr 2013 12:17

vina wrote:The bigger point is that the helmet /missile combo is shown to work in the LCA and it has a pretty decent A2A right now

No two ways on that Tejas is getting closer to IOC

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 28 Apr 2013 15:54

The potency of the helmet/cueing/missile integrated system was also vouched for the by the German airforce once the migs entered the luftwaffe. All pilot had to do was look at the target for a while and lock on.