Understanding Sikh History-1

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 09 May 2010 03:52

Sikh history from 1709-1799 is interesting. It is one unedning continuous saga of Khalsa being being beaten to pulp repeatedly. Tens of thousands of Sikhs were routinely beheaded. This century records Wada Ghalughara, and Chhota Gallughara (The Bigh Massacre, and the Small Massacre). Khalsa was hunted, and rewards set on the heads of Sikh. Mounds of Sikh heads were often piled in Lahore and the bringer of the head was suitably rewarded by the ruler. Sikhs had for the most part retired to forests, many did not marry as they could not settle. They carried on defiant warfare from there. Most of the civilized cities & villages had little visible Sikh presence. The rulers sometimes switched from outright hostillity to temporary and insincere friendship quite rapidly. Among the population (Hindu & Muslim) at that time there existed an enormous respect, sympathy and warmth for the Khalsa.

Save for few victory like those of Banda Singh Bahadur, or those of Bhagel Singh on raids on Delhi, this century saw the Khalsa repeatedly take it hard. But one interesting thing stands out in this decade---despite the continuous trail of military setbacks and little victories of any kind, the spirit of Chardikala remained. Chardi kala is a Sikh word to descibe a feeling of happy euphoric optimism. The Sikhs of this era are to be credited with taking all the punishment with such careless elan. They did not consider themselves defeated, and that is the only reason why a logical person would not call them defeated. Sikhs are to be credited to have lived in this dark time when oppression had reached a crescendo---Hindus are to be credited for supplying the men & women who converted to the Khalsa.

Sadly, this spirit of Chardikala was not visible in the 19th century when the Britsih defeated the Sikhs in 1849: Sikhs lost their heart and *accepted defeat*; they went into a state of decline, defeatism & pessimism. That decline is evident still to this day.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 May 2010 10:44

Why? Thats what i am looking for?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 May 2010 00:09

Bajwa Sahib,
Does Nirmala Sikhs getting boot from Singh Sabha has something to do with hurting the spiritual aspect of loosing the spirit to spread Sikhi ?
IMHO, Brit played the perfidious part in defining sikhi in narrow terms which imparted its own strength and weaknesses.
BTW, few of Bhai Nand Lal's descendents live here in San Francisco Bay Area.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 10 May 2010 19:26

"Hurting the Spiritual aspects" definitely not!! It has all to do with politics between Congress, BJP and Akalis.

Nirmala Sikhs were created by Guru Gobind Singh after he picked five sikhs who were sent to Benaras to study Sanskrit and Vedas. Check Does http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Nirmala

These days there is a controversy going on in many gurdwaras., where some sikh factions are displaying Dasam Granth (Large book written by Guru Gobind singh and his 52 poets including many Nirmala Sikhs) along with Guru Granth Sahib in Gurdwaras. As well as main stream Sikhs are concerned this is an issueless political controversy. For them., Guru Granth is a spiritual and physical Guru while Dasam Granth is book written by Guru Gobind Singh and Nirmala Sikhs (Dasam Granth is about war, fighting, weapons while Guru Granth Sahib is about Waheguru and Love)

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 10 May 2010 20:22

Prem,

Before I answer your question about Nirmalas, let me just point out a few things that you might already know, but others may not. Guru Gobind Singh Ji selected five Singhs and sent them to Banaras to study the Hindu scriptures. On their return they were honored by Guru Ji and called Nirmalas (i.e. Those without the dirt of maya/mammon). Due to their upbringing they were deeply ingrained in the Hindu way of thinking, i.e. they were especially philosophical and intellectual. They did a great job in spreading & maintaining Sikhism in places like UP, Bihar, and other places. They also did a great job of maintaining a philosophical bridge to the heart of Hindu theology and scriptures.

(The Sikhi Wiki article is incoherent, I am afraid.)

The British defeated the Sikh Empire and delivered severe debilitating blows. They took over the control of the Gurudwaras and handed it over to their puppets. Sikhs felt cornered and under siege, which they were. They fought for the Gurudwara control. After a bloody violent fight with the British, they got back the Gurudwaras in Punjab. This paranoia then caused them to go about trying to recover every place which could be called a Gurudwara to be under their control. The Udasis & Nirmalas ran many Gurudwara outside of Punjab. The SGPC wanted control of them. So the Nirmalas & Udasis removed the Guru Granth Sahib from them to prevent the SGPC takeover of the shrine. This was a self-destructive step on behalf of the SGPC/Sikhs.

So in a series of cascading actions/reaction, the British desire to conquer, control & exploit India/Punjab led them to lay a seige on the Gurudwaras. This resulted in paronia for the Sikhs. They in turn then tried to get back all what they considered Gurudwaras and homogenize them lest they fall in enemy hands again. This had the inevitable consequence of Nirmalas & Udasis removing the Holy Granth and consequently distancing themselves from Sikhi. The British actions in the Punjab were devastating for the Sikhs.

It may be hard to imagine, but Sikhism had a pan Indian foot print right from the onset. It was an all-India faith, not a Punjabi religion initially. The Udasis & Nirmalas did excelent prachar of Sikh ideals in the heartland of Hinduism/India.

(Gyani Sant Singh Maskeen was a follower of a Nirmala Saint, by the way.)

(The Satnami Sect is an offshoot of Sikhism also, by the way. The chief minister of Chhatissgarh although a Christian now was a Satnami. Satnaamis gave battle to the Mughals.)

Prem: Can you tell us anything interesting about the descendents of Bhai Nand Laal Ji?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 May 2010 22:28

Surinder ,
AFAIk, they keep low profile and folks came to know about them onlee after few temple Chaudhries acted as usual and picked up panga for no reason and tried to teach them "right Sikhi".

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 11 May 2010 06:43

I was recently reading about Guru Nanak and his travels. I understand that he had traveled throughout India, and even went westwards to Baghdad and Medina. This seems to be a first because all the major saints & gurus we read about traveled within India 'proper' (Punjab to Assam, Kanyakumari to Kashmir). Guru Nanak seems to be the only one (per my limited knowledge) who went westwards from Punjab.

Did he record any impressions, religious and/or social, of what he saw in the Persian and Arab world in the 15th/16th century? Any comments would be appreciated, as would links to articles/books on his travels outside (and inside) India.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 11 May 2010 07:48

SriKumar, Guru Nanak Dev Ji, went westward all the way to Mecca & Medina. He went to Iraq, Afghanistan, Turkey etc. He also travelled to Tibet, and all the way to Cylone & Assam too. There are stories (called Sakhis) of his travels to all the places, but not travelogues in the sense of what we know today.

There is a Sakhi of him & his close friend & disciple, called Mardana Ji (who was Muslim), in Iraq. There the Pir is angry at him for his teachings and come to attack him. They all freeze and cannot stone him as they intended to. Sakhis tend to have moral lessons, but not social info etc.

There is a Gurudwara in Iraq where Guru Nanak Dev Ji went. This Gurudwara suffered damage in the Iraq wars. It was recently renovated and made operational again with the help of people like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (if my memory serves me right). There are Gurudwaras in Afghanistan in Kabul, Jalalabad where Guru Ji also went. There are also Gurudwaras in Leh, Ladhakh, Sikkim where he was called Guru Lama.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 May 2010 00:46

I have a question. Did the Sikh gurus attract any Muslims into their way?

I know Sikhism was able to turn the tide in Punjab. I also know that after the British colonial victory Sikhs did not spread but was confined to exisiting followers and their descendents.

Looking at the Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singhji, they first five were all India origins people. How come latter Sikhs were from Punjab only. Was the pan India message lost?

bhavani · Post by **bhavani** » 12 May 2010 01:14

After reading the last few pages i feel so sad. Turn any page of our History every act that the british did had a long lasting effect, which till now has not been reversed. This is worse than all the pillaging and the murder that the barbarians from the Arab lands brought. The british acts had long lasting effects

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 May 2010 01:37

Dont despair yet.

Karan_A wrote:

Around 400 years back, Indics came up with the perfect antidote to Arabian barbarism.
It was called Sikhism.

The injection of Sikhism in Indic body acted like the best anti-virus for Islamism and is what saved India from going the Afghan way.
Unfortunately the percentage of Sikhs has declined in Indic population after independence.
The British/TSP plan to use Sikhism against India also has largely failed.

We need to revive the pilgrimage to Sikh holy places in TSP and demand religious autonomy for them. Are there any measures to attract new followers from other religions?

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 12 May 2010 17:55

Today is a Tercentanary of a very important event.

Exactly 300 years, May 12, 1710, Banda Singh Bahadur won the war against the cruel Mughal governer of Sirhind, establishing the Indic non-Muslim rule over parts of Punjab, snatching the away from Muslims. That empire did not last long, it is true. Banda Singh, along with 700 Sikhs, was captured and tortured in unimaginable bestial ways. All the Sikhs were asked to convert to Islam, none did.

This victory was a victory of common Men, people from the lowest dredges of of society getting together to fight and eventually defeat the Mughals in Punjab.

Gurudwara stands in Mehrauli Delhi where Banda was martyred: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Gurd ... gh_Bahadur

I am told that in old Delhi there no shrine, but only a plaque, for the 700 Sikhs who were martyred along with Banda.

Other sites:

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/wa ... banda.html

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-o ... brave.html

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 12 May 2010 18:22

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/200706 ... ciety1.htm

Baba Banda Singh Bahadar was born in Rajouri. He settled on the banks of the Godavri, near Nanded. It was here that Guru Gobind Singh met him. Banda ‘Bairagi’, as he came to be known, was greatly impressed by the 10th Guru and took Pahul from him. He was ordered by the master to go back to Punjab and help the people of the state to fight against atrocities and also avenge the most brutal and unjust killings of Sahibzadas Zorawar Singh and Fateh Singh.

Banda Bahadar reached Punjab in 1709 and established his capital at Mukhlisgarh, a place on the border of Nahan in Himachal and Jagadhri in Haryana. In reverence to the hukamnama of Guru Gobind Singh, many disciples of the Guru came under his command to fight against the Mughal rule in Punjab. Baba Banda Singh Bahadar attacked Samana and put Sayyed Jalaludin, the executioner of Guru Teg Bahadar, to death. His brothers — Sashal Beg and Bashal Beg — were the executioners of the younger Sahibzadas, who also lived at Samana. Baba Banda Singh Bahadar also attacked Sadhaura and took revenge from the Mughal chief Usmaan Khan and his accomplices responsible for the death of Pir Budhu Shah and his family.

Baba Banda Singh Bahadar, after capturing Banur, marched towards Sirhind and defeated Subedar Wazir Khan in Chapar Chiri, near the present-day town of Landran. It was on May, 1710, that Wazir Khan was killed in a fierce battle. Thereafter, he captured Sirhind and avenged the death of the innocent Sahibzadas. He issued a coin in the name of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh. He also abolished the system of zamindari and gave land to the actual tillers. Thus, he became the Messiah of the downtrodden and small farmers.

He was chased by Mughal chiefs. Emperor Bahadar Shah had to command the army himself against Banda Bahadar. From Mukhlisgarh, he escaped but ultimately was captured along with 700 dedicated Sikhs at Gurdas Nangal, near Gurdaspur, after a siege for months together. They were taken to Delhi where they were tortured to death in 1716 near the Kutab Minar. They were lured to temptations but the brave Sikhs rejected all offers and embraced martyrdom without apology or remorse. Baba Banda Singh Bahadar was put to untold mental and physical torture. His wife and five-year-old son Ajai Singh were hacked to death.

It was in June, 1716, that he was cut limb by limb and his flesh was torn apart from his body. He neither aplogised nor did he show agony in the face of untold misery. The events were recorded not only by Muslim historians like Khafi Khan, Mohammed Harisi and Mohammed Kasim Lahori but also by East India Company officials John Sarman, Edward Stephenson and Hugh Barker, who sent reports to Governor Robert Hadges at Fort William at Calcutta.

Rabindra Nath Tagore gave a befitting tribute to Banda Singh Bahadar in his poem entitled Bandi Bir in Bengali. As a tribute to the victor of Sirhind on his martyrdom. the poem eulogises him as great warrior and true disciple of Guru Gobind Singh. This poem became the anthem for the revolutionaries of Bengal, especially during the freedom struggle of India.

Extract from Rabindra Nath Tagore’s poem Bandi Bir written in praise of the great Sikh warrior:

The Mughals and Sikhs together kicked up the dust of Delhi thoroughfares;

Who will offer his life first?

There was a rush to settle this;

In the morning hundreds of heroes offered heads to the executioner, calling "Glory be to Guruji";

The Kazi put into Banda’s lap one of his sons;

Said... must kill him with own hands;

Without hesitation, saying nothing, slowly Banda pulled the child on his breast;

Then slowly drawing the knife from the belt, looking at the boy’s face, whispered "Glory be to Guruji", in the boy’s ears.

The young face beamed;

The court room shook as the boy sang, "Glory be to Guruji;"

Banda then threw the left arm around his neck and with the right plunged the knife into the boy’s breast;

The boy dropped on the ground, smiling saying "Glory be to Guruji".

The court was dead silent. The executioner tore apart Banda’s body with a pair of red-hot tongs;

Standing still the hero died,

not uttering a sound of agony;

The audience closed their eyes;

The court was dead silent.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 14 May 2010 21:27

Gurus a noob question. Does anyone with a Singh as middle/last name has a lineage to Sikhism (eventhough he/she might be following a different religion currently)?

Cheers....

munna · Post by **munna** » 14 May 2010 23:54

neerajb wrote:Gurus a noob question. Does anyone with a Singh as middle/last name has a lineage to Sikhism (eventhough he/she might be following a different religion currently)?

Cheers....

Nope! Singh used in Sikhism is for the followers of Khalsa Panth who were exhorted by Dasham Pita Guru Goding Singhji to use Singh (Lion) as the surname for men and Kaur (Lioness) for women. The Singh surname is also used by Hindu Rajputs/Thakurs/Kshatriyas and even within Hindus a lot of castes belonging to OBC and SC/ST category may also use this surname. A Singh surname does not imply Sikh lineage.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 16 May 2010 09:13

Guru Gobind Singh wanted a very common hoi polloi to be as proud as Rajputs/Rajas/Kshtriyas who were using Singh as their last name at that time. Mughals had passed a decree (law) that any non-muslim should not do this

1. Have Moustache and Beard (only muslims are allowed).
2. Have pride for your indepence., Ride on a Horse. (noble hindus were allowed Palkis only).
3. Keep weapons. (even a common Kirpan was banned).

Guru Gobind Singh told all people to become his Sikhs (Disciples) and have a moustance and beard (protected by a turban like nobles)., ride on horses and keep weapons (actually all three above rules were must for a Khalsa).

He actually declared on the Viskahi of 1699 that Rajputs have forgotten their Dharma and names(Singh) and are sending their daughters to the harem of Mughals. But I will make the Kshtriya Singhs from the common people (Shudras, Chamars, low castes, etc) who will protect the land and its beliefs.

So!! all Sikhs are Singhs!! but all Singhs are not Sikhs!! Majority are still the old Singhs whose ancestors allied with Mughals., against their own countrymen.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 18 May 2010 20:50

Tagore & Sikhism

http://www.sikhchic.com/our_best_friends/tagore_sikhism

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 19 May 2010 01:20

One of the traits of Sikhism that I have observed is having similar name for both males and females.
e.g. Surinder of BRF fame might as well could be Surinder kaur (my apologies Surinder ji). This is something which to me denotes gender equality. No discrimination between man and woman.
How did the Indic culture let this change take root is amazing. So don't be surprised if you see "Gaganjeet weds Gaganjit" kind of Wedding invitation like I received few weeks back.

Nirantar · Post by **Nirantar** » 19 May 2010 08:13

I always wish if some really good director(not some cheap one like Anil Sharma casting Sunny or Akshay), preferably some hollywood one, make epic movie on subjects such as 'Battle of Sargarhi' or Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa or Sardar Ranjit Singh. Will be a befitting reply to the invincible pakhtun theories.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 19 May 2010 09:12

VikasRaina wrote:One of the traits of Sikhism that I have observed is having similar name for both males and females.
e.g. Surinder of BRF fame might as well could be Surinder kaur (my apologies Surinder ji). This is something which to me denotes gender equality. No discrimination between man and woman.
How did the Indic culture let this change take root is amazing. So don't be surprised if you see "Gaganjeet weds Gaganjit" kind of Wedding invitation like I received few weeks back.

It is Punjabi trait I believe. I've met husband and wife pairs of raj and raj, kamal and kamal etc. Btw, though now it is mostly associated with Sikhs, 'Kaur' was used by non-Sikhs too.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 19 May 2010 23:02

Surinder,
This is anecdotal with no reference, so take it fwiw.
Many years ago, in Kerala, my Father who could speak Punjabi fluently, saw an Old Sikh gent and went up to him and asked in Punjabi, how are you and which pind are you from? The Sikh gave him a blank look and said in Malayalam that he did not know Punjabi and that he was a Malayali. Apparently there are some Malayali Sikhs - although how many and where from I have no idea.

Before I posted - I decided to check with Google chettan - here is what I got- Malayali Sikhs. I don't agree with the title of "South Indian" Sikh where it should have been "Malayali Sikh". There are other Sikhs in South India, especially in AP.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 20 May 2010 19:48

Sikhs played a huge part in the non-cooperation movement in the 1920's. This was also the time when Singh Sabha Movement was turning back to the original meaning of Sikhism.

Before 1920s., even in the Golden Temple itself the untouchables were not given Karah Prasad in the precincts of the Golden Temple,. only outside of the main gate (where "untouchable" sikhs would gather).

Kartar Singh Jhabbar and his other ilks decided to take action against the Granthi of Golden Temple, taking untouchables inside and he got on the stage ordering that from Today Granthi will distribute the Karah Prasad to the untouchables himself before the rest of the Sikhs, granthi decided to run away. Kartar Singh jhabbar and Teja Singh Samundri took the keys from granthi and later declared that Golden Temple is from now on a property of all Sikhs (SGPC was established and it took over control of Gurdwaras).

Even before Singh Sabha or Ranjit Singh or Banda Bahadur. All Sikh Gurus always travelled through out India.

1. Guru Nanak Dev ji travelled almost 30 years of life around the world (as far as Baghdad to west, Tibet to the North and Almost to the Burma and to Rameswaram/KanyaKumari in the South. The oldest Sikh Gurdwara in South India is at Bidar (I am not sure whether there is a historical Guru Nanak Dev's gurdwara anywhere else in South).

2. Guru Angad Dev ji travelled all over between Indus and Ganga and from Himalayas to Rajasthan.

3. Guru Amardas ji use to travel from Amritsar to Himalayas (annually). He travelled exclusively in current day punjab and Haryana and established 52 centers of "learning" or what he called "Manjis". Where the established leader of the village (as the one that he picked) would sit in the Cot/Manji and read, contemplate and sing Bhajans. Amazing thing is that in 1600s out of the 52 centers he made 8 women as a leader of them. This is time time when purdah, sati and other "Islamic" evils were in full swing in north india.

4. Guru Ramdas ji travelled all over Punjab too.

5. Guru Arjan Dev ji --- Ditto

6. Guru Hargobind ji travelled all over North India from Kashmir to Indore/Gwalior/Kanpur/Delhi. He was jailed at Gwalior for 2 years (some say 10 years).

7. Guru Harrai ji exclusively concentrated on the Hilly region of current day Himachal, Uttaranchal and Garhwal.

8. Guru Harkishen ji were mostly between Chandigarh and Delhi.

9. Guru Tegh Bahadur ji again decided to follow Guru Nanak Dev ji and travelled all over India his Guru Gobind Rai was born at Patna. He left the young infant and mother at Patna and travelled to Burma , coming back 1 year later to Patna and then back to Anandpur Sahib.

10. Guru Gobind Singh was born at Patna, Bihar Martyred at Nanded, Maharashtra and he travelled all over between Lahore , Nanded and Patna. He also picked the first five Khalsa Singhs from all over India (Bidar, Dwarka, Hastinapur, Lahore and Jagannath Puri).

Sikhs were called "Sardars" because they were "leaders" in that area and the name stuck.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2011 00:22

Link: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1002474

SBajwa wrote:
by Vikas Raina
Childhood anecdote...Few of us friends including a Sikh kid were coming out of a local Pir baba mazaar. Out of nowhere a Nihang, appeared and gave 2 tight slaps to the Sikh Kid for visiting a Pir baba mazaar.
I still don't know why, but we had a hearty laughter (Of course we never visited that Pir Baba again out of fear is a different story)
Actually to tell you truth! Guru Gobind Singh forbade any relations(food, marriage, etc) with people who

1. Kill their daughters (female infanticide).
2. Pray to Samadh, Marhi, Masaan and witchcraft of any kind and type.
3. Follow Ram Rai.

Ram Rai was to be eighth sikh Guru and was specially raised by the seventh guru Sri Guru Har Rai ji. Aurungzeb wanted to know why Guru Nanak Dev ji in one Sloak in SGGS implied that the Muslims are "beimaan" when they believe that instead of their body being buried they will get heaven. Guru Nanak actually was saying it does not matter whether you cremate or bury your dead. The exact translation is "The Ashes of the Musalman (Muslim) fall into the potter's clot, it is moulded into pots and bricks, and they cry out as they burn".

Now Aurungzeb wanted Guru Har Rai to be at Delhi with explanation. Guru Har Rai ji instead sent his eldest son Ram Rai who was groomed to be next Guru. Ram Rai went to Delhi and got scared and said that Guru Nanak Dev has never used the world "Musalmaan" it was instead "Beimaan" i.e. people who are beimaan will cry out when their body is burned. Ram Rai changed the Gurbani of Sri Guru Nanak dev (being scared) and thus he was kicked out of Sikhism by his father (Eighth guru Sri Guru Har Rai ji). Ram Rai was given an estate at a place where he created his "Dehra" and later it became "Dehradoon"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2011 00:24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Dehradun

The present town of Dehradun was founded in the early eighteenth century by 'Guru Ram Rai', the elder son of seventh Sikh Guru, Guru Har Rai, who was part of the Udasi sect of Sikh Asceticism,[6] who came here in 1675, and first settled in village 'Dhamawala', which even today hosts the annual 'Jhanda Fair' on the fifth day after Holi in his memory.[7] Thus the name refers to his Dera or settlement in the valley, around which the present town gradually developed,[8] and marking this settlement is a Gurudwara called 'Guru Ram Rai Darbar', built in 1699 with the help of Raja of Garhwal, Fateh Shah, who was succeeded by his grandson in the same year, Pratap Shah,[1] and modelled on the tomb of Mughal Emperor Jehangir.[9]

Dehradun was an independent kingdom, then after it was a part of Nepal. Nepal lost Dehradun to England when India was colonized by England. Historically, Dehradun has remained part of the Garhwal Kingdom also known as 'Kedarkhand', which was founded by Ajai Pal, around 1400, by capturing all the minor principalities of the Garhwal region, under his own sway, and thereafter, he and his descendants ruled over Garhwal and the adjacent state of Tehri-Garhwal, in an uninterrupted line till 1803, when Gurkhas invaded Kumaon and Garhwal.[10]

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 04 Jan 2011 00:48

Sanju wrote:Surinder,
This is anecdotal with no reference, so take it fwiw.
Many years ago, in Kerala, my Father who could speak Punjabi fluently, saw an Old Sikh gent and went up to him and asked in Punjabi, how are you and which pind are you from? The Sikh gave him a blank look and said in Malayalam that he did not know Punjabi and that he was a Malayali. Apparently there are some Malayali Sikhs - although how many and where from I have no idea.

Before I posted - I decided to check with Google chettan - here is what I got- Malayali Sikhs. I don't agree with the title of "South Indian" Sikh where it should have been "Malayali Sikh". There are other Sikhs in South India, especially in AP.

I used to work with an elderly Sikh gentleman who was born and brought up in Canada and is actually of Greek ancestry. Apparently in the 60s/70s, he and his brother used to be a hippies and one day, they decided to take a yoga class and found that it gave him a better high than pot did. So he quit smoking pot and became a yoga nut. Apparently the yoga teacher was a sikh chap, so they decided to look into sikhism and were drawn to it. He converted (as he claims, he already had the hair and beard for it) and even married a white sardarni and has a daughter raised in the sikh tradition (he even sent her to Amritsar to be schooled in the sikh ways!)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2011 00:59

In the 80s there was computer expert from Berkely who was a Caucasian Sardar.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Jan 2011 21:36

www.sikhnet.com website is run by "Gurmustak Singh Khalsa" who was raised by his parents as a Sikh trained in Kundalini Yoga at Arizona. Both were disciple of Sardar Harbhajan Singh Yogi. Gurmustak Singh spent 4 years at Miri Piri Khalsa Academy at Amritsar along with couple of his cousins. He is a perfect example of what a Khalsa should look alike.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 05 Jan 2011 09:56

Interesting....I looked up Sardar Harbajan Singh Yogi on wikipedia.org and I wonder if he was the one who taught yoga to my colleague as well. The description of his work in the 60s and 70s pretty much matches what my colleague told me, as well as the locations. Heck, my colleague even uses Siri as his first name and Khalsa as his last name.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 05 Jan 2011 15:45

Sanju wrote:The Sikh gave him a blank look and said in Malayalam that he did not know Punjabi and that he was a Malayali. Apparently there are some Malayali Sikhs - although how many and where from I have no idea.

1. There are Sikhs in Kochi area who were into business for quite some time (i.e for 2-3 generations). So the younger generations in these families would certainly be more fluent in Malayalam than Punjabi. In similar lines there are also Marwari families who settled down in the state, but came in as traders once upon a time.
2. Among the OBC groups in Kerala there was a trend in 1950s etc. to have names which were totally different from the standard Malayalam names at that time. Many of the Malayalam names also could have a connection to a person's caste and so many of the so called lower caste people decided to have a different names. So came names like "Subhash Chandra Bose" and "Indira Gandhi Mol" etc. Some people also used a name which ended with "Singh" (eg: Ratna Singh)*. These Singhs are out and out Mallus. They are not Khalsa Sikhs.

* In our NCC company we had a "Singh". Our coy. JCO from N.Delhi was happy to note a Singh in the nominal rolls, perhaps thought that he could at least speak to him in good Hindi

. When this Singh was summoned, the JCO found out that our Singh was a typical Mallu, and could not even follow the basics of Hindi leave alone speak in the language.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Jan 2011 02:23

Ram Rai was to be eighth sikh Guru and was specially raised by the seventh guru Sri Guru Har Rai ji. Aurungzeb wanted to know why Guru Nanak Dev ji in one Sloak in SGGS implied that the Muslims are "beimaan" when they believe that instead of their body being buried they will get heaven. Guru Nanak actually was saying it does not matter whether you cremate or bury your dead. The exact translation is "The Ashes of the Musalman (Muslim) fall into the potter's clot, it is moulded into pots and bricks, and they cry out as they burn".

More description.

Guru Nanak Dev was a sort of revolutionary going against the tradition and pre conceived notions. Muslims of India (just like now and then) believe that cremation will put them in "hell" as oppose to burial which puts them in heaven.

Guru Nanak in his Sholoka essentially tells people that "all living matter goes back and assimilate into matter" i.e.

1. Muslims bury their dead which over time become part of the land and dirt. Burial grounds traditionally are made towards the lower part of the village/city so that water flows away. The Burial grounds over time collect water and become a small pond.

2. Potters pick the dirt from the ponds for their pots.

3. Baba Nanak says that so when their bodies (as part of the earth) cry in the potter's kiln do they cry that they are being transferred to hell now?

Aurungzeb wanted to question the number 3. from the above. Ram Rai changed the word "Musalmaan" to "Beimaan" saying that "Baba Nanak meant that only the people who are beimaan (meaning without Imaan or bad people) will cry out at this juncture., while people of "imaan" are already in heaven" Which was wrong and thus Ram Rai was kicked out of Sikhism.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 28 Jan 2011 15:02

^ What was the actual Shloka ? How can one translate Musalmaan into Beimaan. After all Aurangzeb's court was not full of knobs.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Jan 2011 21:25

"'Mitti Musalman ki peirei paee kumhaar"
"Earth of the Musalmaan came into the hands of a Kumhaar"

"Ghar bhandei itan kia, jaldi karei pukar"
"Then Potter creates the utensils while the Earth cries out when it burns"

Here is a exact quote from "Neutral Singh" from some website.

"Muslims are of the belief that after death if the mortal remain are burnt, they would burn in the "Fire of Dozak" (please correct me for my knowldege) so they bury their dead and that soil is rendered useless... But then Guru Nanak says... (sometimes) that same piece of earth where a muslim was buried, is picked up by a bad potter (means, as that part of earth becomes clay after sometime as the body is decompposed by the earthworkms in earth like the earthworms/moths, who prey on the dead body and their movements makes the earth clay... infact there a business of making clay by putting some earthworms in the earth) and then potter gives that earth the shape of bricks or utencils and when the potter puts it on kiln*** (the burning fire) that same earth sounds like crying as if in eternal pain... the same pain that muslims were trying to evade while burying... or as they think so...

***If you ever happen to go to Kiln where bricks or utensils are put to great heat and fire and when the bricks or utensils are in the process of drying up and hardening, they produce great loud noices like somebody is crying... this a fact and Guru Nanak is trying to convey the message in the simplistic of terms."

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 29 Jan 2011 04:39

Vikas Raina,

some muszlims complained to Aurangzeb that Sikh scriptures were hurtful to izlamic sentiments . Aurangzeb sent summons to the 7th Guru Ji. Guru ji sent his son Ram Rai to Aurangzeb's court and sent the copy of the Holy Adi Granth (compiled first by the 5th Guru) with all due respect. He also specifically told him not to show off or perform any miracles.

Ram Rai was in the court and opened the Holy Granth, and the line mentioned came up. He read it deliberately as "mitti beiman ki" rather than the correct intent as "mitti mussalmaan ki". Now, for muzlims, as SBajwa expalined, their being burned is a terrifying sacrilege, so they would have found this translation objectionable. But the line *WAS* intended to clearly say that mussalmaan fascination with not being burned after death is meaningless, as the potter *WOULD* eventually burn this soil and the body of the mussallmaan. Now to say such things in a muzlim-ruled country is nothing short of inviting the ruler's wrath.

Then Ram Rai went ahead and showed a lot of miracles. Now modern writers and historians are uncomfortable with the idea of miracles, so they don't state part of the story for the fear being ridiculed. But from the spiritual side, this is important too. Ram Rai showed a lot fo miracles---many of them are documented (foretelling thoughts, showing images of far off places, answering questions about future/past, etc.).

He was honored and feasted and then he tried to return back. The 7th Guru Ji came to know about the actions of Ram Rai and he sent his word to his son to *NEVER* show his face to him again. He had shown cowardice in not stating the truth to the emporer; he had done the ultimate sacrilege of deliberately twist the Guru's Baani, and had violated the command of his Father/Guru to not display any miraculous feats.

Arangzeb came to know about the humiliating ex-communication of Ram Rai and offered him to set up a Dera in Dehra Doon.

For a long time (and even now), Sikhs are explicitly prohibited from keeping any relations with Ram Rai and his faith/followers. But I suppose if I was in Dehra Doon, I might (out of curiosity) venture out to the Dera and the shrine of Ram Rais. But this would be forbidden and considered traitorous.

Has anyone seen the institutions of Ram Rain Dehra Doon? Any Dehra Doon people here?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 29 Jan 2011 15:03

Thanks Sbajwa and Surinder. Now I understand.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 29 Jan 2011 19:30

Surinder/SBajwa ji , Can you give us some details about the ghalugaras(both of them).Tremendous sacrifices were made by Sikhs in that period.I would also like to know more about the leadership of Sikhs in that period.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2011 22:24

SBajwa & Surinder, Thanks for the historical insight. It gives an idea of current politics of Punjab. So Patiala etc always aligned with Dilli sarkar. Rest of Punjab is Maharaja Ranjit Singh's domain. Shiromani Akali Dal etc are of this lineage? IS Bindranwala from which lineage? I expect from Patiala stream.

Now switching back to modern times. Where did Pratap Singh Kairon fit and why was he shot so brutally?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Jan 2011 23:59

Surinder ,
I think Guru Gobind Singh ji met the few of Ram Rai's Gaddhi/Parivar and forgave them. May be Bajwa Sahib knows, meeting was held in a boat and forgiveness was asked because GGS JI was to be the last human Guru and last oppertunity for them.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 31 Jan 2011 05:00

Prem, Yes, that very true.

I am impressed that you know this!!!

After I posted, I was talking to the Bhai at our Gurudwara and asked him he knew about Ram Rai etc. He had lived in Dehra Doon for sometime, so was more knowledgeable about them. He said what Prem wrote. When Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj came to Paonta Sahib in HP, which is about 2-3 hours from Dehra Doon, Ram Rai sought forgiveness from Him. He was forgiven, but the ban on roti-beti relations was not lifted. He told me that Ram Rai was burned alive in the succession wars by his own followers.

One more thing I should probably mention: We often think of Aurangzeb as being fanatical and cruel to the extreme, which is certainly true. But he was politically shrewd too. After Ram Rai was banished, he realized that this is an opportunity to set a rival Guru-ship and split the Sikhs. Additionally, the split off faction was scion of the Guru's family and it was obviously someone he could manipulate and use as a puppet. It is a remarkably modern and shrewd move.

But the Sikh Guru instituted a complete and blanket ban on Ram Rai and forbade roti-beti reltations, which foreclosed Ram Rai's chances for good. Ram Rai infact sought Aurangzeb's help in succeeding to the Sikh Guruship, but that was doomed to fail either. Ram Rai (and his following) was not to ever play any important role in Sikh history, due to this ban. Consider that Sikhs have seldom instituted such complete bans.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 31 Jan 2011 05:33

by Ramanna
SBajwa & Surinder, Thanks for the historical insight. It gives an idea of current politics of Punjab. So Patiala etc always aligned with Dilli sarkar. Rest of Punjab is Maharaja Ranjit Singh's domain. Shiromani Akali Dal etc are of this lineage? IS Bindranwala from which lineage? I expect from Patiala stream.

Now switching back to modern times. Where did Pratap Singh Kairon fit and why was he shot so brutally?

Ramanna!! you are welcome!!

Badal is Dhillon Jutt!! while Patiala kings are Sidhu Jutts. Sidhu Jutts are same as Brar (Bhinrenwale was Brar). But.. except from Raja of Patiala (Congress) rest of the punjabi kings (Kapurthala, Jind, etc) along with Ranjit singh's kingdom has totally obliterated. Last person who was revered by punjab's population was Maharaja Dalip Singh (who was taken over to england and converted by the British Queeen along with kohinoor, etc). Maharaja Dalip Singh reverted back to Sikhism when he was in his 50s and tried to come back to Punjab all his life without success. He expired in Paris around first world war.

These days we cannot find any Misal era or other kingdom lines. Badal's family is actually not related to Sikh history but General Shabeg Singh (who died in 1984 at golden temple) was direct descendant of Bhai Mehtab Singh (who beheaded Massa Ranghar in 1750s as massa ranghar had converted golden temple into his palace)., Bhindrenwale is probably more closer to the king of patiala (being a Brar which is a branch of Sidhus).

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 31 Jan 2011 05:45

by Darshan
Surinder/SBajwa ji , Can you give us some details about the ghalugaras(both of them).Tremendous sacrifices were made by Sikhs in that period.I would also like to know more about the leadership of Sikhs in that period.

Chhota Ghalughara was around 1720s when Mughal governor of Lahore had given an order on the price of the Sikhs and their property. A horse, alive sikh and a head of a dead sikh were all valued and paid for. As Governor of Lahore wanted Sikh Dharm to die. Alll Sikh women were put in jail in Lahore and were made to grind chakki for "sawa mann" wheat (one mann equals 40kg) daily.

Some Sikhs escaped and started living in the marshes of River Ravi. Governor realized and he sent his forces and they sorrouned the marshes (mand area of River Ravi)., over 24,000 Sikhs were killed in these search and destroy operations. about 50% of the Sikhs escaped upto Himalayas and thus sikhism survived.

Wadda Ghalughara or the greater holocaust was when Abdali who was trying to win India again (after panipat) kept attacking. He attacked 6 more times but never going across punjab. He decied to get his allies (malerkotla, Sarhind and Lahore) together and created a plan. All Muslims rulers worked under this plan.

Sikhs always had sent their women, old men and money either to himalayas or to Rajasthan., couldn't do it at this time when their area was sorrounded from all three areas. It is said that

1. 70% of the Sikh population was killed in one day by Abdali and his allies.
2. Sikh heroes like Charat Singh (grand father of Ranjit Singh) fought continously for 72 hours., three or four horses died of exhaustation.
3. Sikh heroes like Kapur Singh virk got 70 cuts on his body by bullets and swords.
4. Sikh survived this holocaust when at last Kingdom of Patiala give them "shelter"., where abdali didn't attack.

The bigger holocaust (wadda Ghalughara) was so great that everybody around in India was certain that Sikh religion is over.