India-US relations: News and Discussions III

[g.sarkar]

I do not think you can make such a general statement like that. I carried a hand gun at work, I have 2 hand guns at home (S&W38 and Glock9). But I do not conceal carry though I am allowed to. I am a first gen American, and I guess you can call me academic type.
Gautam

I thought you were a cop by profession.

Peace officer, law enforcement, just retired. But I do have couple of degrees that I got in the US, but did not use at work.
Gautam

[JwalaMukhi]

The situation is in flux. Many have not come to terms and possibly will have trouble for a long time, with the results. Some extremely averse to the outcome, some ecstatic to the results in US. So far as desis are concerned, it is time for extreme caution. Most desis seem to be level-headed, except the Columbia-type nutters and fiberals who go to extreme. Remember the nut case prof and a female journo of indian origin, were the first to get fired for stupid emotional (or is it natural? for these types) reaction.

For false flag attacks by vested interests, Desis are the best to be victimized. Random acts do not yield only desi victims, which seems to be case so far after the elections.
Desis need to exercise extreme caution. There could be many false-flag attacks just to prove a point. Incidentally, most of the victims who have so far paid with their lives and blood have been desis. Only false flag narratives, about some peacefuls, being harrassed has come out. And threats to jewish centers. The media cabal is not exempt from exaggerating. Remember, the broken window of church being exploited to create a huge hungama, while it turned out that disgruntled ROLers were involved in that.

All in all situation is being exploited by any side which can use this fluidity. Desis have to be very careful, as to who are their friends, not fall for many who pretend to be friends. In reality desis may not have any friends. But hoping some fiberals, who mouth peace nik words are going to be their friends and bandwagoning with them could allow them to exploit the weakness of desis.

[SaiK]

LokeshC ji, a question posted for you on TG

[Primus]

Primus, Desis are too emotionally involved in last election.

..............While those people here nestled in their special perches here trotted off to fight "feminazism" as represented by hillary - many Indian desi women were terrified that Trump means their husbands may not have jobs, their childrens education may be disrupted, the hassle of possible abrupt relocation. While those worthies here enraged at the duplicity of a foreign secretary of state in having an email server at home - indian students were contemplating all the hours they spent scrubbing dishes, their parents money in paying fees may come to naught under Trump as they may not work here.

So kinda yes - vast majority of desis here can be expected to react emotionally.

Kiran Ji, as I said before, I do not have a dog in this fight, but it is a bit unfair to target us old fogeys. We have all been there - 'Humne bhi bahut papad bele hain'. My brother worked evening and weekend shifts at an ice-cream factory doing heavy manual labor to make ends meet - he too was on a student visa and had a wife and son to support. When I came here I had huge loans on my head (long story) and a wife and two kids to support. I put in 17 yrs in training, often working 80 hrs a week, including from 9AM Fri to 5PM Mon non-stop, catching what sleep I could get.

In contrast, my niece transferred to SF last year with her husband from a multinational firm in B'lore, brand new cars and three bedroom apartment in Silicon Valley, landing in the gravy boat from the word go. The only concern for them is how to convert the visa to a GC.

I have nothing against success in the modern world, but spare a thought for all of us who have struggled to simply feed our families, visa problems aside. It cost $3 per minute to call home, plane ticket to India was equal to half my monthly salary. It could be years before we were able to visit desh and it was almost impossible for parents on Indian salaries to travel to the US.

It has not been a walk in the park for any of us.

[Lilo]

Indians are the default Arabs?

Third hate crime in 2 weeks? After Kuchibhotla, Harnish Patel; Sikh man shot in US

The deepstate of massa(SD & CFR types) through their left-liberal MSM rags like NYTs & CNNs created a equivalence b/w PIOs of dharmic persuasion and peacefuls like Pakis and the ME araps since last few decades.Terms like southasian were employed to supplant the indian identity markers - with bhaiwood , american think-tanks,columnists in massa newsrags going to great lengths to erect & propagate this false equivalence which was lapped up by the coolaid consuming ABCDs high on their sikular delusions.

Hollywood, celebrities, comedians too popularised the brown "race" equivalence between indics & ME peacefuls - with willing aquiecence from the mainstream left supporting "leaders" of Indian communities in massa.

The deepstate(ex:CFR) was pushing this brownie equivalence since the ending days of coldwar to dissipate the fallout of Islamic extremism(alCIAda's foremost strategic tool) world over to upkeep the "peaceful" image of Islam in massa homeland. After 9/11 sensing the seething anger they notched up the propaganda on equivalence by many levels.PIO leaders were the proverbial suckers accepting the blowback from common white americans as if they deserve it while standing in solidarity with the Islamic groups against the well deserved islamophobia welling up in massa commoners.

Now the vultures are coming home to roost.The non elite interests are mainstream & are politically ascendant for the foreseeable future.

Left liberal & crypto islamist orgs like CAIR & CNN(ex:Jihadi Reza Aslam show where aghora practices were trumpeted as Hindu mainstream practice curiously coincide with the concerted efforts to weaken the growing solidarity b/w the antiglobalist massa nationalists & similar minded rw Hindu groups in India & abroad) and other globalist groups are taking great pains(than normal) to propagate the subconscious anti Hindu/indic attitudes to divert/disperse the anti-Islamic attitude in the white classes onto the dispensable brownies(like indics) while appropriating the benefits of any post event white guilt for the sake of muslim ummah in massa( strategy seen in action in the recent Kansas shooting incident).

PIO leaders must recognise this game atleast now (since they have failed to in post 9/11) and keep open the outreach to the ascendant antiglobalist right of massa.They must never associate themselves with the cryptoislamist leftist entities having ideological hegemony in academia & opinion making classes.Contest every such association & false equivalence propagated by these groups tooth and nail at every step.

[darshan]

Many factors go into the killings of small business owners. All of them pretty much know that any day could be risky. My extended family members have been in running many of such businesses in red states. Even third generation cousins are. Racially charged killings are usually the last thing on the chart. However, tensions have been rising over last 10+ years due to inequality in incomes and outright ignoring of addiction to drugs in these states. Once drugs come into play all bets are off for motel guys, store owners, etc. Over last three decades pretty much all people that I knew of that died while running their businesses were due to someone being high, getting pissed off (happens many times a day as you are trying to prevent theft), pissed off employees, being caught up in gangwar if you are running business in that area, latino and blacks not liking that you are running business in their areas etc. Many many factors. Lot more are killed in latino and black areas than redneck areas. One can also sense rage being built up in many southern areas under Obama as many viewing their problems as the black guy sticking it to us.

Another thing to note is that when it is racial, it is anti desi equally from blacks, latinos, whites. It is not only whites. Desis need to be upfront and clear about separating themselves from "Arabs". Most of desi people shy away from clearly identifying themselves as Hindu/Sikh who also hate "Arabs" as much due to terrorism against Indic civilization. People keep forgetting how news reports are ran and words used. Countries like KSA would never allow US to clearly identify who is Arab openly on news channel. "Arabs" are even listed under White category on federal forms to appease oil princes. Time and time I see many many desis hanging out with pakis and BDs which they should not. Many of these states are taken over by muslim medical professionals from middle east, pakistan, and bangladesh (prisons, VA, rural hospitals, etc.). Very very hard for these people to distinguish who is who. On top of that many pakis/BDs identify themselves as south asians or Indians to muddy waters even further. Similarly, I have seen many Sikhs muddy up waters by trying to separate themselves away from India and Hinduism. Help yourselves by clearly identifying yourselves as people who hate terrorism and "arabs" as much as possible. While working with big companies with decent desi population, many classified me as Hindu fundamentalist for keeping distance from "arabs"/pakis/BDs. But there was no one ran into me thinking that I am muslim after couple of months of joining these companies. Everyone knew that I am Hindu vegetarian person with call center accent. Clear clear demarcation.

I am pro gun person but I do not believe that will solve any problem other than possibly keep you alive in the moment of opportunity. All my second/third generation cousins carry guns, go to target ranges, etc. But we do not believe that that will increase chances of randomly being killed without notice. Surprise attack is a surprise attack. For example, more Sikhs carry weapons than Hindus but that have not resulted in them not being targeted. However, increasing knowledge of people wanting to kill "arabs" will. News channels, schools etc. are not going to do it for you. For example, during 26/11 when piglets were not clearly being identified as muslims. US gov't does not want to do it and they have their own reasons due to oil princes. So it is up to you to do it. Stand up and do it.

[darshan]

When you are running street customer facing businesses, you are more worried about randomness than racial/hate. Any day could be the last day.
For example, http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2016/ ... _robb.html

Disclaimer: I am providing "Patels" point of view from the small business perspective. This does not discount racial killings or targeting like Patel from Alabama.

When in last 20 years, most of the brown people killed are of Indian origin and Hindu/Sikh, it is a matter of concern for sure. However, it is more important to analyze why people wanting to kill muslims/arabs are ending up killing Hindu/Sikh. Are they being intentionally brainwashed to think that Hindu/Sikh are muslims/arabs? More and more convenient store businesses are being picked up by middle eastern people in states like Texas (especially Houston/Austin/San Antonio area), but not as many being killed as Gujju people who ran these joints before them. Is increasing number of muslims in black population helping this?

[NRao]

Indians are the default Arabs?

Third hate crime in 2 weeks? After Kuchibhotla, Harnish Patel; Sikh man shot in US

Prez needs to resign.

[IndraD]

[IndraD]

Hate in America: Indians were never immune! Rediff
February 24, 2017 20:33 IST

From citizenship rights to hate crimes and police brutality, no wave of persecution in the US has left Indians completely untouched, says Monali Sarkar.

Indian-Americans were left reeling on the night of February 23 after a white racist, Adam Purinton, opened fire on two Indians at a bar in Kansas City in the United States.

Yelling 'Get out of my country', the Navy veteran killed Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, an engineer working at the Garmin headquarters, and injured his friend Alok Madasani.

Purinton also shot Ian Grillot, who tried to stop him.

This was the latest in the spate of racially motivated crimes that have erupted all over the US in the past year -- an uptick in violence aimed at South Asian (Muslim, Sikh, Hindu), Middle Eastern, and Arab American communities during the 2016 election cycle that has been documented by civil rights organisations.

In a political climate that has seen many Indians and Indian Americans distance themselves -- and even support -- US President Donald Trump's actions against Muslims, this incident has driven home the reality that no religion, no colour is immune to such actions.

And no number of assurances about how much 'Trump loves Hindus and India' are enough.

Hate in America: Indians were never immune!
Though not many in numbers, South Asians have been in America for centuries. And they have faced racism and hate since then.

Neil Padukone, the author of Beyond South Asia: India's Strategic Evolution and the Reintegration of the Subcontinent, described this in a column published in Rediff.com's India Abroad.

'As far back as the 1800s, north Indian traders came bearing "exotic articles from the Orient," selling silks, spices, and hookahs in New Orleans, Detroit, and even the old Southwest (think of Ali Hakim from the play Oklahoma!),' he wrote.

'Not just lacking immigration papers, but having brown skin, these Indian migrants were shown the door at White-owned hotels and neighborhoods. And the racism and antipathy didn't stop there.'

'The 1917 Immigration Act made Indians, as author Vivek Bald puts it, "equivalent in the eyes of the law to alcoholics, professional beggars, and the insane," and the Supreme Court ruled that "Indians who were already in the United States were racially ineligible to become citizens".'

'Fears of a "Hindoo Invasion" and a "Turban Tide" swept American newspapers, and as Erika Lee documents in The Making of Asian America, brown people from Washington state to Florida were denied citizenship (despite American military service, in the case of Bhagat Singh Thind), beaten by white mobs, forcibly removed from entire towns, imprisoned if they sought to marry Caucasian women, and worse.'

Where they did gain acceptance, Padukone pointed out, was in the Black majority enclaves of all of these cities.

That February when 'Hindus' lost American citizenship
Then came the Dotbusters
The Dotbusters were a hate group targeting Indians that emerged in Jersey City, New Jersey, in 1987.

The 'dot' referred to the bindi Indian women traditionally sport on their foreheads.

In a letter published in the Jersey Journal, they wrote, 'We are an organisation called the Dotbusters. We have been around for 2 years. We will go to any extreme to get Indians to move out of Jersey City... We plan some of our most extreme attacks such as breaking windows, breaking car windows, and crashing family parties.'

'We use the phone books and look up the name Patel. Have you seen how many of them there are? Do you even live in Jersey City? Do you walk down Central Avenue and experience what its like to be near them: We have and we just don't want it anymore. You said that they will have to start protecting themselves because the police cannot always be there. They will never do anything. They are a weak race physically and mentally. We are going to continue our way. We will never be stopped.'

They followed up the words with many racial attacks, ranging from vandalism to severe assaults.

Balbir Singh Sodhi, a gas station owner in Mesa, Arizona, became the first person of South Asian origin to be killed in a hate crime targeting Sikhs in retaliation after 9/11.

He was shot by Frank Roque, who was seeking revenge for the September 11 attacks and mistook Sodhi for an Arab because of his turban and beard.

Sodhi's death in 2001 has been followed by a long and terrifying list of hate crimes against Sikhs in America, many of them ending in the death of the victims.

Over the years America has also witnessed arson and vandalism at Hindu temples and Sikh gurdwaras, but the worst of these attacks was the one on the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in August 2012.

A white supremacist opened fire on the devotees in the gurdwara on a Sunday, killing six people.

A year after this incident -- and after 12 years of attacks on Sikhs since 9/11 -- the US decided that crimes committed against Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Arabs and three other minority religions would be tracked as hate crimes by US law enforcement agencies.

A police dashboard camera recorded the police brutality, left, on Sureshbhai Patel, right, who was left partially paralysed.
Sureshbhai Patel, an Indian grandfather, was walking in his neighbourhood in Madison, Alabama, in February 2015 when he was slammed to the ground and left partially paralysed by a local policeman.

Before the display of police brutality by policeman Eric Parker, Patel, who was in the US to visit his son, was recorded telling the cops who stopped him that he knew 'no English.'

Though Parker was dismissed from his job and charged, and despite the incident being recorded by police dashboard cameras, he was acquitted of all charges and even reinstated in the police force.

The incident took place at the height of the #BlackLivesMatter movement in the US, a campaign that grew out of the rise in police brutality against blacks and reiterated that browns were not immune and staying on the sidelines would not help.

Patel's incident was not an isolated one.

In December 2016, Aravinda Pillalamarri, an Indian-American woman who has lived in the US for more than 30 years, was walking in her neighbourhood in Maryland when she was stopped and asked about her immigration status.

According to a report in The Baltimore Sun, a police supervisor who arrived at the scene told her she wasn't free to leave because she 'was under criminal investigation.'

She was allowed to leave and walk to her home a few doors away only after the officers had run her name through their system.

'Only when the supervisor asked "Are you here illegally?" did my sense of colour, and of being unequal, come forth and my interest in my civil rights take a back seat to get out of the situation safely,' Pillalamarri was quoted as saying.

'Public safety does not need to come at the cost of civil rights.'

[darshan]

Hate in America: Indians were never immune! Rediff
February 24, 2017 20:33 IST

This was the latest in the spate of racially motivated crimes that have erupted all over the US in the past year -- an uptick in violence aimed at South Asian (Muslim, Sikh, Hindu), Middle Eastern, and Arab American communities during the 2016 election cycle that has been documented by civil rights organisations.

Great! You gotta love the order they are mentioned in too. How many muslim and Arab news papers put other religions with islam when they are complaining about "atrocities" and "oppression" being committed against them? And, obviously, news reporter has not cataloged such "events" while peddling this idiocy in the writeup and allowing arab/muslims to politically capitalize on the dead Hindu/Sikh. Sometimes you just have to stop reading at the mention of word "South Asian" and move on to next article.

[IndraD]

Had a single muslim died in hate attack so far left liberal would have gone berserk. Besides Muslims are very well united across world which ever country they live in. Hindus tend to mix up with local crowd and lose their identity to new found one.

[disha]

Can somebody draw a chart with Hillary, Alyssa, Dhume, Robin and the Saudi Barbarians?

Point is., there is a shift happening away from "atlanticists" (or rather UK/France directed foreign policy) to US-interest foreign policy and there is a fight back from the deep state.

Is loss of India from UK's sphere to FSU and then to India's own independent policy created a rift between US/India?

[Austin]

"Go Back To Your Own Country" Washington Sikh Told Before Being Shot; Shooter At Large

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-0 ... oter-large

[darshan]

Had a single muslim died in hate attack so far left liberal would have gone berserk. Besides Muslims are very well united across world which ever country they live in. Hindus tend to mix up with local crowd and lose their identity to new found one.

Yep. Agreed. Just look at the punishments that US courts hand out to crimes committed against muslims vs Hindu/Sikh. At some point, we have to approach this from all angles. No theory should be thrown out the window as conspiracy theory. For example, what if this set of killings were carried out by anti Trump groups to put pressure on Trump administration? Were these killings politically charged and thought out rather than racially? Like you mentioned, god forbid that some saudi is killed or saudi mosque is attacked. If you want to kill arabs, then it is not that hard to Google "mosque near me".

[UlanBatori]

It cost $3 per minute to call home, plane ticket to India was equal to half my monthly salary. It could be years before we were able to visit desh and it was almost impossible for parents on Indian salaries to travel to the US.

Half a month's salary? More like a few months if one bought even a few toys for the brats in desh!
I think this is what the new eh1bee wunderkinden describe as "mary (sic) antoinette". How dare the yoo ess ask them to prove anything, let alone that their employer could not find a Qualified US Candidate - at any wage - to replace us, as most of us had to do?

[Primus]

It cost $3 per minute to call home, plane ticket to India was equal to half my monthly salary. It could be years before we were able to visit desh and it was almost impossible for parents on Indian salaries to travel to the US.

Half a month's salary? More like a few months if one bought even a few toys for the brats in desh!
I think this is what the new eh1bee wunderkinden describe as "mary (sic) antoinette". How dare the yoo ess ask them to prove anything, let alone that their employer could not find a Qualified US Candidate - at any wage - to replace us, as most of us had to do?

Heh heh, how can I forget? Everyone wanted 'phoren ka maal' those days, even Wrigley's gum was like gold. Had to take out massive credit card loans for a single trip to desh. Now my said niece in SF has made three trips in two years and her parents have made five in the same period. In the 80s a trip to the US was over a year's salary for most of us in India.

[darshan]

Yep. My extended family due to whom I came to US, my parents did not see them (their siblings) for 15 years straight. They slugged through 60s and 70s. No internet, TV, youtube, etc. to hear their concerns. In those days, both Democrats and Republican whites openly kicked your ass.

[saip]

Those were the days my friend and we thought they would (never) end. End they did finally.

At that time we could not pack enough in the two 70 lb( yes it was then) suitcases each were allowed. Now we just take carry ons and even they are empty.

[saip]

Deleted

[komal]

Yep. My extended family due to whom I came to US, my parents did not see them (their siblings) for 15 years straight. They slugged through 60s and 70s. No internet, TV, youtube, etc. to hear their concerns. In those days, both Democrats and Republican whites openly kicked your ass.

In the 1960s, long distance phone calls to India were by appointment -- and then only to the the big 4 metros. Telegrams were the only reliable way to communicate important information (births, deaths, weddings). Routine communication was done through letters. I remember the word "SAFE" would headline a letter to indicate that it do not contain bad news.

International flights from Europe went only to Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta. Getting an IAC connection to Madras was nearly impossible unless you flew in on Air India. And you couldn't call the day before to make a reservation to India. it took weeks if not a month or more.

[Mort Walker]

There is now sufficient evidence for the MEA to issue a travel advisory for the US. Indians must take precautions who visit or reside in the US because they will be subjected to hate crimes and civil rights violations by various US law enforcement agencies.

[KLNMurthy]

Steve Bannon, we are told, read and quotes the Gita. And that makes some of us happy, validated and proud, and snootily disdainful of anyone that opposes Trump chacha.

There is another connection Steve Bannon has with India, according to this Huffpost article:

This Stunningly Racist French Novel Is How Steve Bannon Explains The World

From the article:

Stephen Bannon, President Donald Trump’s chief strategist and the driving force behind the administration’s controversial ban on travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries, has a favorite metaphor he uses to describe the largest refugee crisis in human history.

“It’s been almost a Camp of the Saints-type invasion into Central and then Western and Northern Europe,” he said in October 2015.

...

But the top Trump aide’s repeated references to The Camp of the Saints, an obscure 1973 novel by French author Jean Raspail, reveal even more about how he understands the world. The book is a cult favorite on the far right, yet it’s never found a wider audience. There’s a good reason for that: It’s breathtakingly racist.

“[This book is] racist in the literal sense of the term. It uses race as the main characterization of characters,” said Cécile Alduy, professor of French at Stanford University and an expert on the contemporary French far right. “It describes the takeover of Europe by waves of immigrants that wash ashore like the plague.”

The book, she said, “reframes everything as the fight to death between races.”

Upon the novel’s release in the United States in 1975, the influential book review magazine Kirkus Reviews pulled no punches: “The publishers are presenting The Camp of the Saints as a major event, and it probably is, in much the same sense that Mein Kampf was a major event.”
...
The plot of The Camp of the Saints follows a poor Indian demagogue, named “the turd-eater” because he literally eats shit, and the deformed, apparently psychic child who sits on his shoulders. Together, they lead an “armada” of 800,000 impoverished Indians sailing to France. Dithering European politicians, bureaucrats and religious leaders, including a liberal pope from Latin America, debate whether to let the ships land and accept the Indians or to do the right thing — in the book’s vision — by recognizing the threat the migrants pose and killing them all.



...

The non-white people of Earth, meanwhile, wait silently for the Indians to reach shore. The landing will be the signal for them to rise up everywhere and overthrow white Western society.

The French government eventually gives the order to repel the armada by force, but by then the military has lost the will to fight. Troops battle among themselves as the Indians stream on shore, trampling to death the left-wing radicals who came to welcome them. Poor black and brown people literally overrun Western civilization. Chinese people pour into Russia; the queen of England is forced to marry her son to a Pakistani woman; the mayor of New York must house an African-American family at Gracie Mansion. Raspail’s rogue heroes, the defenders of white Christian supremacy, attempt to defend their civilization with guns blazing but are killed in the process.

...

Only white Europeans like Calgues are portrayed as truly human in The Camp of the Saints. The Indian armada brings “thousands of wretched creatures” whose very bodies arouse disgust: “Scraggy branches, brown and black … All bare, those fleshless Gandhi-arms.” Poor brown children are spoiled fruit “starting to rot, all wormy inside, or turned so you can’t see the mold.”

The ship’s inhabitants are also sexual deviants who turn the voyage into a grotesque orgy. “Everywhere, rivers of sperm,” Raspail writes. “Streaming over bodies, oozing between breasts, and buttocks, and thighs, and lips, and fingers.”
...

Yes, let's suspend judgment on Steve Bannon pending deeper study and analysis. Let's be sure to include Camp of the Saints and Turner Diaries in that study. And let's pretend that we have self-respect and pride in being Indian.

[UlanBatori]

Oh, cool! A White House turd who actually reads (whatever he reads..)

Compare that to the civilized, secular, culturally sensitive segment of America... say CNN?
This is **NOT** someone being "proven" a racist because he reads a French racist novel, it is ... The Truth Channel!! CNN!!
We ALL want our culture to be portrayed by a Modern, Secular, (deleted) Islamist, hain?

Long ago, I remember writing to the Ulan Bataar Fishwrap suggesting that they "experience" "WATER" (as they were recommending to their readers) a lot cheaper than going to a movier theater, by simply holding their heads inside a pakistan and pulling the flush. Seemed to get their undies in a knot...

[JwalaMukhi]

Huffington post is a racist rag on the left side by patronizing and condescending towards yindoo. There is a theme to run yindoos down, from these rags for a long time. Doesn't mean that otherside will accomodate yindoos. Yindoos are big target for both the left and right. Only the expression of it varies. One is overt other is closet.
So, with the fake news channel running "believers", there will be concerted orchestrated attempt to run down yindoos everywhere, not just in India. This kind of thing usually happens, when cheques from Saudi and China reach there intended media houses across the globe. Nothing new, except, many a SDREs who were unaware of this till now, or ignoring that, are now being forced to take notice.

[darshan]

+1, yes, let us forget about all those drive by hits that were done and are still being done by CNN and BBC about Hindus. While we are at it, let us also forget about what britshits were thinking of Indians just because Bannon is here. After all we are all goldfish. Knowing both sides well and traversing through divide and conquer is so overrated compared to being pendulum and swinging from one evil to another.

[OmkarC]

Had a single muslim died in hate attack so far left liberal would have gone berserk. Besides Muslims are very well united across world which ever country they live in. Hindus tend to mix up with local crowd and lose their identity to new found one.

Yep. Agreed. Just look at the punishments that US courts hand out to crimes committed against muslims vs Hindu/Sikh. At some point, we have to approach this from all angles. No theory should be thrown out the window as conspiracy theory. For example, what if this set of killings were carried out by anti Trump groups to put pressure on Trump administration? Were these killings politically charged and thought out rather than racially? Like you mentioned, god forbid that some saudi is killed or saudi mosque is attacked. If you want to kill arabs, then it is not that hard to Google "mosque near me".

For the past 15+ years since 9-11, far more Hindus & Sikhs have been murdered at the hands of White Racists than Muslims or Arabs, unless they don a skull cap and wear burqas. Really sick and tired of these white racists shooting first and then have their system make excuses for them with a "sorry we thought you were Muslims or Arabs"... their false pretense of "misunderstanding" is insulting to anyone's intelligence, when innocent lives are being lost regularly.. Frankly, even Chimps can learn to distinguish simple facts after being told this many times. Add to that the barrage of racist abuses and humiliations they wantonly and callously heap on our people. Many people are predicting that things are only going to get worse for Indians and there is truth to this.

If Trump gets impeached, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
If Trump gets to stay, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
If Arabs kill US soldiers in Syria, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
If Arabs kill Arabs in Syria, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
..
..
If Aliens in constellation X murder Aliens in constellation Z, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.

Just looking for excuses to murder Indians to cover up their jealousies cannot go on in perpetual. But unfortunately, despite their disgusting attitudes, when I think hard about this - the only long term hope we have is a gradual behavioral change among Whites themselves. Arming Indian community is just a deterrent and could save lives, but it will not stop racism against Indians par se.

Aggressive pursuit of wealth, championing physical & intellectual accomplishments only sidelining spirituality, Lack of a contemplative, inward outlook towards life - all point to lack of good teachers & "spiritual guides" for this culture. I hope the likes of Sri Sri Ravishanker & Sadhguru can bring some fundamental transformation to these people and guide them towards a more peaceful co-existence w/ rest of the world.

[Primus]

Steve Bannon, we are told, read and quotes the Gita. And that makes some of us happy, validated and proud, and snootily disdainful of anyone that opposes Trump chacha.

Not really. Oppenheimer read and quoted the Gita and yet was the architect of the weapon that killed over 100,000 defenseless Japanese. Ravana was said to have been the most learned in the Vedas.

Nobody is endorsing Trump, but to believe the opposite, that HiC would have been saintly and a great friend to India and Indians is also a fallacy. Point is, there is no country that will think of Indians kindly and welcome them with open arms. It is always going to be an uphill battle for anyone seeking their fortunes outside of the mother country.

Yes, let's suspend judgment on Steve Bannon pending deeper study and analysis. Let's be sure to include Camp of the Saints and Turner Diaries in that study. And let's pretend that we have self-respect and pride in being Indian.

Agreed.

[sanjaykumar]

Sure. This lot will be a big help.

Sri Sri Ravishanker ?

I have a PhD and also the MD, yet I don't call myself Doctor Doctor. And I am not even enlightened.

[OmkarC]

^^ At least he is teaching peaceful co-existence and art of contentment.. instead of mocking our peace emissaries, do you have anything constructive to offer - or you gonna be an AAphole ?

[sanjaykumar]

Sorry to have had the temerity to question the humbleness of one makes it his business.

[GShankar]

So, with all the violence against sdre along with media snub, seems like we are the proverbial guinea pig to test the plans (field trial) of leftist and rightist narratives. They know it is a soft target, so trial run is with us now. Once successful, the concepts in real world and other places, would be then be widely implemented.

[KLNMurthy]

I think it is time for some un-PC talk about the elephant in the room, the hollow and rotten ideology that is Western civilization and the obligation of the Indians to step up to save the humans of the Western world from the consequences thereof.

Whatever works, Ravishankar or any other, to tame and civilize the savage and ignorant beast that Western civilization is proving to be, under a thin veneer of civilization and culture.

I am one who believes in the superiority and depth of Indian civilization and thank Providence every day for making me an heir to this unique culture that holds the key to an ethical salvation of humankind.

The striking thing about the Camp of the Saints book is that it sees only a binary choice for the West to get out of the consequences of their own evil karma, when they went out of their way to rob and impoverish other countries--either kill off the refugees or be overrun by them. Both options dehumanize the refugees. This is the core hollowness of Western culture--deep down, virtually all of them believe, always believed maybe, not just that they are superior, but that only they are the real humans.

Indians believe in common humanity, never accumulated the evil karma of robbing other lands and people. And in reality, as opposed to the dehumanizing and deculturizing portrayal in Camp of Saints (it is clear that at the very least it has shaped Bannon's thinking and conceptualization) Indian refugees in reality, from the most famine-stricken peasant classes as in the book, always carried with them the seeds of high and benevolent civilization and culture, producing, in a short span of a couple of generations, intellectual giants like Naipaul for example.

[kiranA]

..............While those people here nestled in their special perches here trotted off to fight "feminazism" as represented by hillary - many Indian desi women were terrified that Trump means their husbands may not have jobs, their childrens education may be disrupted, the hassle of possible abrupt relocation. While those worthies here enraged at the duplicity of a foreign secretary of state in having an email server at home - indian students were contemplating all the hours they spent scrubbing dishes, their parents money in paying fees may come to naught under Trump as they may not work here.

So kinda yes - vast majority of desis here can be expected to react emotionally.

Kiran Ji, as I said before, I do not have a dog in this fight, but it is a bit unfair to target us old fogeys. We have all been there - 'Humne bhi bahut papad bele hain'. My brother worked evening and weekend shifts at an ice-cream factory doing heavy manual labor to make ends meet - he too was on a student visa and had a wife and son to support. When I came here I had huge loans on my head (long story) and a wife and two kids to support. I put in 17 yrs in training, often working 80 hrs a week, including from 9AM Fri to 5PM Mon non-stop, catching what sleep I could get.

In contrast, my niece transferred to SF last year with her husband from a multinational firm in B'lore, brand new cars and three bedroom apartment in Silicon Valley, landing in the gravy boat from the word go. The only concern for them is how to convert the visa to a GC.

I have nothing against success in the modern world, but spare a thought for all of us who have struggled to simply feed our families, visa problems aside. It cost $3 per minute to call home, plane ticket to India was equal to half my monthly salary. It could be years before we were able to visit desh and it was almost impossible for parents on Indian salaries to travel to the US.

It has not been a walk in the park for any of us.

Really confusing. My post never diminished anybody's reallife struggles and I fully empathize with what you had to go through. It was only on the posts made here. All that struggle does not really exempt one's posts from critique or does it ?

[GShankar]

^^ At least he is teaching peaceful co-existence and art of contentment.. instead of mocking our peace emissaries, do you have anything constructive to offer - or you gonna be an AAphole ?

Have to say that the impacts of Sri Sri, Jaggi, etc. will take very very long time to come to those who end-up perpetuating the violence on sdre. Currently the moderates (some from west, yes) are taking to jaggi for example but they just seem to buy in to little tid bits. Moreover jaggi is all about secularizing our knowledge by saying inner engineering, adi yogi, etc. so nothing much per se to generate goodwill for yindoos and their country.

Though Jaggis preachings, if followed might make one to understand and appreciate our ancient culture and knowledgebase, my personal worry is that many of Jaggi's western "listeners" are ripe for U-turn. Anyways, that remains to be seen.

[kiranA]

Yep. Agreed. Just look at the punishments that US courts hand out to crimes committed against muslims vs Hindu/Sikh. At some point, we have to approach this from all angles. No theory should be thrown out the window as conspiracy theory. For example, what if this set of killings were carried out by anti Trump groups to put pressure on Trump administration? Were these killings politically charged and thought out rather than racially? Like you mentioned, god forbid that some saudi is killed or saudi mosque is attacked. If you want to kill arabs, then it is not that hard to Google "mosque near me".

For the past 15+ years since 9-11, far more Hindus & Sikhs have been murdered at the hands of White Racists than Muslims or Arabs, unless they don a skull cap and wear burqas. Really sick and tired of these white racists shooting first and then have their system make excuses for them with a "sorry we thought you were Muslims or Arabs"... their false pretense of "misunderstanding" is insulting to anyone's intelligence, when innocent lives are being lost regularly.. Frankly, even Chimps can learn to distinguish simple facts after being told this many times. Add to that the barrage of racist abuses and humiliations they wantonly and callously heap on our people. Many people are predicting that things are only going to get worse for Indians and there is truth to this.

If Trump gets impeached, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
If Trump gets to stay, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
If Arabs kill US soldiers in Syria, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
If Arabs kill Arabs in Syria, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.
..
..
If Aliens in constellation X murder Aliens in constellation Z, shoot up Indians and ask them to go back to their country.

Just looking for excuses to murder Indians to cover up their jealousies cannot go on in perpetual. But unfortunately, despite their disgusting attitudes, when I think hard about this - the only long term hope we have is a gradual behavioral change among Whites themselves. Arming Indian community is just a deterrent and could save lives, but it will not stop racism against Indians par se.

Aggressive pursuit of wealth, championing physical & intellectual accomplishments only sidelining spirituality, Lack of a contemplative, inward outlook towards life - all point to lack of good teachers & "spiritual guides" for this culture. I hope the likes of Sri Sri Ravishanker & Sadhguru can bring some fundamental transformation to these people and guide them towards a more peaceful co-existence w/ rest of the world.

Despite all this many desis continue to believe all that anti-immigration talk is "really" about muslims, illegal latinos etc. If only desi can convince whites that they are not muslims, if only they can stop smelling a little less like curry, if only this if only that then it will be great.

Even more irony is that there is no payoff even to India in international setting. 9/11 was supposed to complete a western tilt to Indian against pakistan. Instead pakistan got atleast $30 bn in direct govt to govt transfers (no ngo involvment).

[kiranA]

It cost $3 per minute to call home, plane ticket to India was equal to half my monthly salary. It could be years before we were able to visit desh and it was almost impossible for parents on Indian salaries to travel to the US.

Half a month's salary? More like a few months if one bought even a few toys for the brats in desh!
I think this is what the new eh1bee wunderkinden describe as "mary (sic) antoinette". How dare the yoo ess ask them to prove anything, let alone that their employer could not find a Qualified US Candidate - at any wage - to replace us, as most of us had to do?

Great. Those alleged "struggles" entitle you to contempt towards h1b. Nobody questioned US right to implement any policy . All India is saying it is to treat non-immigrant visas as trade matter and negotiate on WTO or other trade terms. You dont have to speculate (while pretending to think) what I meant by mary antoinette - you just need to read - i laid out the context clearly.

[Melwyn]

There are more and more reports of attacks on Indians. In Bay Area I've heard about an incident where an Indian woman was slapped in broad daylight by a white racist and told that Indians are driving fancy cars while they suffer. She did not even report it to police for the fear of further reprisal.

The attack on Sikh man has not made it to national news or any national channel.

It is unclear if there have been attacks on other minorities like Chinese, Latinos etc or are Indians are target of the hate crimes. One problem is that for the uneducated cow boys Indians look like Eyeranians and Arabians. Similarly all East Asians are clumped together as Chinese.

Also found this article about racism against east asians, never read anything like this for Indians.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/nyre ... .html?_r=0

This comment sums up the situation pretty well.

“Herein lies today’s tragedy. Donald Trump has touched a vein in a population mourning a world where their superiority (and entitlement) went unquestioned. His not-so-subtle coded message is one of ‘If you just put “those people” in their place, then all will be well again.’ And it’s just so much more easier to feel this way than to put in the sacrifice and hard work needed to actually improve your own situation.”

[Arjun]

Random acts do not yield only desi victims, which seems to be case so far after the elections.

Ok, if we assume that there is an increase in killers targeting visibly brown and relatively well-off Asians - then random acts will likely yield mostly Indian American victims. Other communities are either not visibly brown, or not Asian looking, or not in sufficient demographics in the US or not as well-off as Indians.

[Gus]

It is time we accept that a section of hate is on our way because of who we are and not because of mistaking with Arabs or whatever. Check this save American it jobs.org and look at the "noteworthy post" section and sections on "Indian IT mafia" etc..