J&K News and Discussion-2011

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 26 Aug 2014 06:14

I agree. They are testing Modi. It will die down after a few days or a couple weeks. Our long term strategy should be to foment secessionist movements within which will add to the headache being caused by the Taliban gobbling up everything outside of Punjab. If Balochistan manages to eventually gain independence we have to make sure that the Iranians stay out.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Aug 2014 08:04

Interesting to see Modi guvrmand's response. If there is none beyond "Befitting Replies using exactly same calibre weapons", that will dent Modi's teflon early. But getting embroiled in a bissing contest will drain the economy badly, and also dent the teflon. Rupee is already scraping the bottom, worse than MMS/Chidambaram achievements, though SENSEX seems to be rising (but it won't if bombs start falling in Mumbai and Dilli). Modi faces the same problem as Dubya faced early in 2001 with the Wrong-Way Wong Wei EP-7 incident: can he order a massive response? Is IA/IAF/IN prepared? But whom to target?

My question, since ppl seem to pretend not to understand, is whether orders have already gone out to the Army to kick musharrafs, whether the Paki firings are indeed "unprovoked" or there are major operations in progress to clean out the infiltration routes and destroy the Paki terror infrastructure.

Without bombing Rawalpindi to smithereens, PA cannot be really put in its place. That needs IAF and IN participation, full-scale war readiness. If he is going to do it, now is the time.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 26 Aug 2014 08:43

I'm wondering who or what's holding up the Pakistani economy?

Is it the US?

In theory, they should have collapsed a long time ago.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Aug 2014 08:44

UlanBatoriJi,

I don't think things will escalate. I think Modiji's gamble is that by returning fire, he is making TSP feel the pinch. I think IA can accomplish this without escalation. The situation to date has been that TSP fires to get their pigLeTs in, India cries foul, and US says both sides need to behave and will mediate if asked to. TSP wins the perception battle. Of course there is no way India will let UN or US to come in and mediate because they are hand in glove with TSP in this. Current govt seems to be striking back and the strategy seems to be that both militarily an politically, raise the costs to TSP. Coming months will tell whether this strategy bears any fruit.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 26 Aug 2014 11:10

Neshant wrote:I'm wondering who or what's holding up the Pakistani economy?

Is it the US?

In theory, they should have collapsed a long time ago.

even crumbling economies need a push from outside. Rome didnt burn because Nero was fiddling, it burnt because the germans attacked it.

the nukes protect it.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 26 Aug 2014 12:27

Ulan Batori Gentleman

The word is that the retaliation is calibrated to inflict disproportionate casualty to command and coordination centers across the IB. Apparently, there is a lot of activity on ground inside Pakistan as well. There has been an increased coordination from Afghanistan side as well I believe. In addition, there has been some clear demands made to Nawaz when he was here.

The GHQ in Pindi is feeling the heat because of the situation internally and the slow loosening of grip on the Allah Army that traditionally did only what the Generals said. Apparently there is a churning on that front and some of them are not willing to listen to everything the PA says.

But there has been some sobering considerations as well. The establishment is horrified at the state of preparedness of all three forces. Further, they had taken an assessment of the Indian capability in terms of Stand-Off retaliation that can be calibrated and delivered with precision. They have found that it is not to the level that is desired for effective operations. The Decade of Drift has caused major shortfalls in operational capabilities that according to some borders on near treason levels.

This the ground reality. Apparently the NSA Mr. Doval is working overtime along with key teams to get things into shape into Intel Network. The silver lining has been the very close involvement of the political leadership by way of PM and the RM to get things moving. It has led to a major boost to the morale of the Uniformed Leadership across the board as well as greater demands from them to get things done.

As you rightly surmise, this is a strategic window of opportunity to bring to end the artificial entity's existence. While there is an intention to get going from the GOI, there has been a realization that serious capability drawbacks exist. The priority is to get those fixed as quickly as possible while making sure that Pakistan gets the message.

May not make all of us here happy, but this seems to be a realistic assessment that I gathered by talking to a few who have been around.

Just an informed ramble. Take it for what it is worth.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 26 Aug 2014 12:41

UlanBatori wrote: Rupee is already scraping the bottom, worse than MMS/Chidambaram achievements

?? What are you talking about ? Rupee had fallen to 69 per dollar under MMS

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Aug 2014 13:05

Pak suffers heavy casualties as govt gives troops free hand
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 874090.cms

Government has given full backing to border forces to go on the offensive in the event of unprovoked firing from Pakistan along the Indo-Pak border. The result is that border forces have pulled out all stops and gone for targeted and precision firing which has led to far more casualties on Pakistan side in just 10 days of firing this year than was witnessed in 30 days of skirmishes last year in August.

As many as eight people, including soldiers, LeT terrorists and civilians, have been killed in Pakistan and over two dozen injured in the firings that began on August 16 this year. On the Indian side, however, there have been only two casualties — of civilians. All these incidents have taken place on the International Border in Jammu guarded by BSF.

A total of 12 Indian soldiers were killed through 2013 by Pakistan forces. This year there has been only one casualty — of a BSF jawan — due to sniper firing a month ago.

Pak ceasefire violations: India retaliating much better than ever before, claims ex-Indian Army commander
http://www.aninews.in/newsdetail2/story ... ander.html

Lieutenant General P N Hoon (Retired) said Saturday that India is retaliating much better than before to Pakistan's repeated violations of the November 2003 ceasefire agreement along the Line of Control that separates the two nations.

He also said that plans are in place to give a befitting retaliatory reply to Pakistan should the ceasefire violations continue.

Describing the repeated ceasefire violations by the Pakistan troops as a very serious matter, Lt. Gen.Hoon said, "I can assure you that we are retaliating much better than ever before. We will destroy them if they do not wake up."

He also said, "We must be very strong and cannot allow these Geelanis and Maliks to meet the Pakistani High Commissioner in New Delhi."

"Pakistan should not live in fool's paradise thinking that they have got the atomic bomb, we will never be the first one to use the atomic bomb but if Pakistan uses it, then we will destroy them," Lt. Gen. Hoon added.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 26 Aug 2014 13:58

Why this constant reiteration that we will not use Nukes first. If GoI comes to know that Pakis or Chinese are loading up the plane with nuke to be dropped in India, would we still wait because we will not use nukes first. Why this Hypocrisy ?
Pakis and its 3.5 Fourfathers should always be reminded that we can be more irrational than them and nukes are implicitly always on the table as an option.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 26 Aug 2014 15:44

^^^ We need to counter Pakis, or so is the general feel of discussions here. Proportionate or Disproportionate is the question. If the answer is Disproportionate, I admit, I am a big fan of this idea. If, however, the answer is Proportionate or may be '= =', then let me say that the equality should be in all spheres.

Sphere 1- Extremism / Terrorism / Separatism : We need to cultivate equal measure of these in terms of political and armed movements in Pakistan in areas of Gilgit, Sindh, Balochistan and also encourage general Shia, Ahmedi, Muhajir mess in the green land.

Sphere 2 - Diplomatic / Political : Pakistan's claim of unfulfilled promises in terms of MFN, Shimla accord, etc, etc, etc should be matched by our own unfulfillment on the Indus Water Treaty, cancellation of even the simplest of favours to TSPians. They engage the Hurriyat, let us host the Shia Gilgitis, Baloch, Sindhis, etc, etc.

Sphere 3 - Cultural / Media : Oh!, the greens may come and work here while we may not use their lands for our benefits? All TSPians working in India should be forced to spend all their Indian earnings in India, restricted work spheres, denied benefits of '= =' to Indians like insurance, medical, no marriage to Indians etc. They want to work here, well they may work, but for our benefit. Since, we cannot work there because there is nothing worth working for (even if they let us live there). People to People contact is another word for Love Jihad. No do not come near us, you TSPians might have Polio.

Sphere 4 - International : All international puppy-jhappies with TSP whether by a State or Individual should be treated as an unfriendly act towards India. All Organisations speaking for TSP, if not a State should be automatically banned in India. All States mollycoddling TSP should be diplomatically warned that India treats it as an act hostile towards India.

Sphere 5 - Military : Since this the only place we go '= =' hence no point in elaborating this.

Do all this and may be we are looking at a fair '= ='. Else, while the rest of the country remains detached only the OGs from our side feel the pinch in this whole policy of '= ='. (OK, I admit so do the border villages)

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 26 Aug 2014 16:06

VikasRaina wrote:Why this constant reiteration that we will not use Nukes first. If GoI comes to know that Pakis or Chinese are loading up the plane with nuke to be dropped in India, would we still wait because we will not use nukes first. Why this Hypocrisy ?
Pakis and its 3.5 Fourfathers should always be reminded that we can be more irrational than them and nukes are implicitly always on the table as an option.

It's a facade to neturalize Paki argument of the region being a nuclear flashpoint. In the middle of Kargil war, I remember George Fernandez making statements to the effect that there was no such policy, and even if there was, it was not written in stone (giving subtle hints to Pakis).

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 26 Aug 2014 18:28

Jihadi Lodhi is full of pompous rubbish as usual, but I think TSP still believes that like MMS and Vajpayee, Modi will climb down and "engage" TSP

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9 ... ng-nowhere

A strategy of offering talks as a concession has failed every time. Every time Delhi suspended talks it actually scored an own goal. And when it returned to the dialogue process it did so in a diplomatic climb down, and not by gaining anything.

I hope this does not happen. My wild card is not TSP, but the traitors within. They will look for any and every opportunity to humiliate Modi. Recall, some Vaidik punk met the pigLeT and they laid that on the door step of Modi. Likewise, as we have seen last week, a crescendo of commentary castigating Modi for calling of talks with TSP. They will be relentless in collusion with US to force Modi to climb down. And of course if he does that, then you will hear the familiar bean counting: UPA surrendered to TSP a little less than Modi yada yada. And the winners of course will be US, TSP, and the Harried scum. Thus, I do share a little bit of UlanBatoriJi's skepticism and its too early to tell if Modi & Co have an incremental strategy, or after a few weeks it will be business as usual.

The script has to change: TSP's strategy of creating un-rest in the valley (and beyond if need be), keeping LOC hot, nuke flashpoint bogey, WKK, DDM, and US and 3.5 pressure on India etc should not be allowed to repeat and pay dividends to TSP.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Aug 2014 20:03

They need to be kept busy, like sharks. Eating each other to keep from being eaten.

member_28638 · Post by **member_28638** » 27 Aug 2014 03:56

To deal with these warmongering savages we need to learn from others. For example:

What would the Americans or Israelis do under this constant attack by the Porkis?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2014 05:15

What would the Americans or Israelis do under this constant attack by the Porkis?

Or the Russians. Or the English. Or the Germans. Or the Chinese:

There wouldn't be any "constant attack". Look at history:
Native Americans attack a settler's house. Cavalry goes in and massacres entire village, razes the huts, Settlement now includes former village.
Mexicans raid settlement: Texas is now part of USA. More Mexicans get drunk in, say, Denver. Las Vegas now US. More drinking: Los Angeles is now Lost To Anglos.

So this is what I hope to hear:
LOC violation. OK, LOC now 10 km west. More violation. LOC now moves 20km northwest. More: no roads left from LaWhore to POK.

More violation: Inconvenient train schedules from Krachi to RYK. Etc. When RYK and the POK road are "inconvenienced", and a few bridges across the Indus become inconvenient, TSP becomes 5 ~~nations~~slums.

Remember: TSP has NEVER agreed to "LOC==IB" because that means give up CashMore. == end of Raisin Dieter of TSP. So LOC is LOC. No other authority there. If the LOC moves 20 km west, well... that is the LOC.

vishnua · Post by **vishnua** » 27 Aug 2014 06:12

We will see action ( some of the them as usual we will never know) on the ground that are long withstanding , at least from 1998. This will be both east of LOC and west of LOC. We went through multiple scenraios since 1998. Buddha smiled, Kargil, Parl attack, full mobilization and back countless ceasefire violations and 10 years of wasted oppurtunities.

There will be plans ( long term and short term). Don't be surprised, Indian Amb to Pak starts talking to leaders of POK as well as Baluchistan. This was already proposed during the UPA-2 which as ususal was declined.

But as long as ppl currently running the show are running guarenteed there will be major kuljis on the west side of border.

But Pakis, with 3 1/2 brothers will try something simialr to 26/11 etc...

I hope and sure , this has been anticipated and response has been planned both internally and externally..

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Aug 2014 06:45

Paki Mush must have been whipped like Kacchi Lassi. They are showing the new wear and tears to UNO asking for Bernol & Bandage.

vishnua · Post by **vishnua** » 27 Aug 2014 07:12

Yes pakis being pakis will adjust accordingly. They probably did not anticipate this from the new Govt. So they will try some other means.

Let the true chess games begin ( if they are not already began)

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 Aug 2014 07:32

These ceasefire violations are golden opportunities if make use of it for our benefits.
Ek goli Ek Dushman must have eliminated a whole lot of the Pakistani Army at the border. If there is an escalation at the other end..escalate it further to a level that their whole armed forces and infrastructure is destroyed to a point of no return. Regain whatever you lost. Push Jihadis into the Arabian sea. Problem solved.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2014 08:23

The trouble so far has been that with every LOC violation there is only "befitting reply", no adjustment of the LOC. I hope this can be changed as given above: each violation, (or whenever, on India's time scale of choosing) seize and hold a substantial chunk of territory, accounting it as being for XYZ violation/transgression. Decide these with good strategic and tactical planning - like, when 2 such areas are captured, they naturally cut off a lot of Paki area. Obviously this requires military superiority, but that is a matter of government/national will: IOW, no backdown, no withdrawal, will hold seized territory and make it "permanent".

With this land-per-violation policy, the Pakis will have something to show for a summer's worth of LOC violations: LOC/ IA encircling Lahore and Sialkot. They can't hide this fact: news will get around that the Indians are there to stay.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Aug 2014 09:38

Pakistan has requested flag meeting, as per NDTV.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 27 Aug 2014 09:52

Will Pakis come covered in flag and we get to bring the Pole ?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Aug 2014 09:55

JE Menon wrote:Pakistan has requested flag meeting, as per NDTV.

rundeeteevee still faithfully conveying his/her master's voice, i see.

part of their propagandu machinery......

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 Aug 2014 14:28

Its our land only. Pakistan is a creation of Brits. There is nothing wrong in you acquiring what you lost in 1947 to some mad Mullahs. Upto Persian border you can march and retake whatever was lost. Its all rightfully ours.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 27 Aug 2014 15:13

A good brasstacks style exercise near the borders now will require the Pak forces to mobilize near border just in case. It will be a heavy drain on their resources. A full 1 month deployment by them should cause trouble to them given their low foreign reserves.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 Aug 2014 17:35

Without gaining territory, our problem is not going to get solved. It will exist in the form of Pakistan next to us, always which is very much undesirable in the long run.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 27 Aug 2014 17:57

uddu wrote:Its our land only. Pakistan is a creation of Brits. There is nothing wrong in you acquiring what you lost in 1947 to some mad Mullahs. Upto Persian border you can march and retake whatever was lost. Its all rightfully ours.

What exactly are you talking about? Please be practical in your plan. How do you plan to assimilate 200 million rabid porkis into India? You can't kill all of them and get the land so you have to accept majority of them. Just imagine the kind of strain it will put on Indian economy, social order, police forces etc. This will directly bolster the so called minority and will give impetus to "bold actions". Adding 200 million malsis will vastly change electoral dynamics in many parts of India. You will have to kiss goodbye to any idea of nationalist forces coming to power in India. That means LONG rule by CONgress to effectively destroy India from within. These are just some of the problems India will inherit.

On the other hand there are some benefits that Pakistan being a separate entity is providing us and the whole wide world. Pakistan by equating themselves to Islam are now proving a contrary point. The whole world is seeing what happens when a country is formed in the name of Islam. Any failure of Pakistan is also a failure of Islam. They are effectively showing the true face of Islam to everybody. Why do you want to give it away?

There is a dirty trick Islam plays when they are in minority. Even though they do everything that Pakistan does, they get to hide that effectively behind the majority thus making it difficult for others to notice flaws of Islam. Being an organized religion they have enough means to project only the positive side of them like Bollywood khans, Azim Premji etc. If you compare the fast breeding rat population where they are in minority it is often noticed that the people useful for society and country are far outnumbered by those who are just a burden on society and the country. All of that is effectively hidden when they are in minority because the majority works double to try and offset that disadvantage. To them it is really a good equation. They get to practice Islam in its full glory but hiding the negative effects and projecting a minority that is useful for the country.

Muslim population is more or less a dead weight put around country's neck. Look at any muslim majority country and you will witness this. This works very well for other countries. India slowed down due to internal problems will be a dream come true for many countries around the world, especially western countries. Besides Pakistan is now serving as a buffer between rabid muslims in the arab world. PA being dominated by pakjabis who genuinely believes that Islam is not what arabs follow but is very noble and blah blah are hell bent on projecting a positive side of it. They have to fight real islam to continue doing that and more so to maintain the real reason for creation of Pakistan i.e. keep the power to themselves. Any ISIS type force will quickly deprive them any reason to be in a separate country from India like Pakistan. That will force them to fight real islam from arab world.

Why would you want to give up all the advantages? I do understand your point though. However there are different ways to achieve those means and the time is not right for that to happen. Just be patient and things will turn around more in our favor.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 Aug 2014 20:18

Our land and possibly our people. I never meant Pakistanis. Pakistanis have their own land. Saudi Arabia.

And Holy lands of Mecca and Medina.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 Aug 2014 20:41

India's defensive posture is great. For centuries we are doing it. The question is why we should keep doing it again and again when you can also go on the offensive. How long we have to keep hostiles in our neighborhood and keep blocking them always in defensive ways. We are not Israel. Israel has to fight their wars in a defensive way each time they see a threat. India sees the threat, is taking blows after blows, but still the question is why should we?
History teaches us that as long as you're defensive the chance of India losing a lot when one failure happening is there. Ex: Prithviraj Chauhan. We may still be able to survive and intact with the same civilizational and cultural things, still why should we wait for the disaster to happen on a large scale to a large scale of the population? No need.
History also teaches us that we can be on the offensive and regain whatever is lost. Ex: Shivaji, Borphukan, Ranjit singh
History also teaches us that we never finished the job completely leading to issues all the time. When the next chance comes, we must be dictating terms at the source of issues.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Aug 2014 20:42

Guys, my theory on TSP upping the ante along LoC. Kindly sample DDM (UnDy, ToiLet, HT, TimesNow etc) including this one

http://www.hindustantimes.com/comment/a ... 56797.aspx

The opposition to Modi govt's cancellation of talks for perfectly valid and honorable reasons is furious. Especially from the J&K politicians of all stripes not to mention perverts who wrote the above.

What this tells me is that TSP has upped the ante, and along with the 5th column in India berating and pressuring Modi, not to mention the pressure from TSP's 3.5, they expect Modi to climb down (note also the heartburn that Modi is moving away from MMS/MushRat's 4 point formula).

This is laughable. TSP is the villain here, and the statesmanship has to come from India. Now if only TSP and its 3.5 are playing this game, its one thing. But it is infuriating to see India's opposition parties singing the same tune. Bloody perverts.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Aug 2014 21:00

I think we should see the Modi Govt cancelling talks with TSP after the latter's meeting with Hurrirats as part of the broader picture of an emerging coalition against Islamist extremists.

The fifth column in India hasn't understood and is on auto-chatter mode.

Look at the failed TSP Autumn rally by Dimwit and TuQ under Jihadi Fistula Jarnails.

This is also a blow against Islamist extremism.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2014 22:24

I think the Guvrmand should make a list of all the HurriRats and their admirers, who want to chai-biskoot with the Paki, to go visit them in Pak. One-way, leave the Indian passports behind. Or if passbort is not desi, well, forget visa, get Canadian vija in Bakistan.

wig · Post by **wig** » 28 Aug 2014 08:22

op piece on the statement by J&K CM
excerpts

On which of these issues does the Chief Minister think Pakistan will relent and accommodate us? Have we not been saying these things time and again for last six decades and has it ever had any positive response from Pakistan?
Now on Pakistan side, they will ask us (a) withdraw all Indian troops from J&K. (b) dismiss the elected government in J&K as it is illegal (c) put J&K under the administration of UN (d) hold plebiscite in Kashmir on two option of either India or Pakistan.
Which of these options Omar Abdullah is prepared to concede so that talks become can proceed?
Therefore when he speaks of continuing talks with Pakistan, he must also explain which of the conditions he is prepared to reconcile with. If he does not say it in public, he can talk to the Union Government in Delhi and hammer out a formula on the basis of which talks will continue.
Now he says that New Delhi should not have called off foreign secretary level meeting and hopes that the process will be resumed. Again as a matter of principle we agree that there is no alternative to talks because use of force is not the option.
Well, the Pakistani side invited the separatists and secessionists for a meeting week ahead of the actual meeting between the two foreign secretaries. The Hurriyatis, separatists and secessionists are reported to have told Pakistani side that (a) Indian army should vacate Kashmir (b) Government of Omar Abdullah should be dismissed because the elections are illegal (c) J&K be placed under either the UN or joint supervision of India and Pakistan for holding plebiscite (d) third option meaning “aazadi” or independent Kashmir should be accepted.
You will note that while they are putting forth their suggestions/conditions, they speak only for Kashmir Valley, not other two regions and not Gilgit and Baltistan and POJK.

excerpts

If by repeatedly asking for continuance of talks he wants to convey a message to India that J&K will remain only acceded to India and not integrated into India, then he is again in a state of self-delusion.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/rhetoric-bilateral-talks/

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Sep 2014 02:29

If the YUK can pass and implement these laws, why can't Indian parliament follow suit against the jihadi hurri-rats that go to pakhanistan and attend those terror rallies?

David Cameron outlines new anti-terror measures to MPs

New powers are needed to seize terrorist suspects' passports and stop British-born extremists from returning to the UK, David Cameron has said.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Sep 2014 20:21

X-post:

sum wrote:JeM TSP-ian hallaled in J&K photographed in IA camo?

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor 1h

Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist Altaf Ahmad, one of the three Pakistan-backed rats killed in Pulwama encounter today. pic.twitter.com/oiWtc8yqRT

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 02 Sep 2014 21:26

CRamS wrote:
What this tells me is that TSP has upped the ante, and along with the 5th column in India berating and pressuring Modi, not to mention the pressure from TSP's 3.5, they expect Modi to climb down (note also the heartburn that Modi is moving away from MMS/MushRat's 4 point formula).

This is laughable. TSP is the villain here, and the statesmanship has to come from India. Now if only TSP and its 3.5 are playing this game, its one thing. But it is infuriating to see India's opposition parties singing the same tune. Bloody perverts.

What is 3.5?

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 02 Sep 2014 21:33

uddu wrote:India's defensive posture is great. For centuries we are doing it. The question is why we should keep doing it again and again when you can also go on the offensive. How long we have to keep hostiles in our neighborhood and keep blocking them always in defensive ways. We are not Israel. Israel has to fight their wars in a defensive way each time they see a threat. India sees the threat, is taking blows after blows, but still the question is why should we?
History teaches us that as long as you're defensive the chance of India losing a lot when one failure happening is there. Ex: Prithviraj Chauhan. We may still be able to survive and intact with the same civilizational and cultural things, still why should we wait for the disaster to happen on a large scale to a large scale of the population? No need.
History also teaches us that we can be on the offensive and regain whatever is lost. Ex: Shivaji, Borphukan, Ranjit singh
History also teaches us that we never finished the job completely leading to issues all the time. When the next chance comes, we must be dictating terms at the source of issues.

First lets care of our sickular mindset, coward attitude of Hindus led by media Mafia which serves interests of west.

next, bring back Christian/Muslims into dharmic fold.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Sep 2014 04:12

BJP in Kashmir?
Old Green Snake Of Mumbai
Sampooran Haramkhoran Link

THE Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is out to form a government in Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) after the elections to the Srinagar assembly in the winter. Its slogan is “44-plus”. The assembly has 87 seats — 46 are from the Kashmir Valley; 37 from Jammu and four from Ladakh. In the election to the Lok Sabha last May the ruling National Conference was trounced.The People’s Democratic Party won all three seats from the Valley while BJP won both seats from Jammu province and the solitary seat from Ladakh. BJP led in as many as 27 assembly segments out of the 41 Jammu and Ladakh combined. Of the former six districts of Jammu only two and a half have a Hindu majority — Jammu and Kathua and a part of Udhampur.However, Doda, Poonch and Rajouri have a Muslim majority. Ladakh’s Leh district has a Buddhist majority and Kargil a Muslim one. The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh was always in favour of trifurcation of J&K.Within days of the BJP government assuming office in May, the union home ministry prepared a classified note stating that the centre would shift its focus from the Valley to Jammu and Ladakh. The idea was to “treat Jammu & Kashmir as one unit and not single out Kashmir. There has to be a cohesive policy linking … Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh”.
The BJP refuses to reckon with the deep alienation in Kashmir.It meant frenzied attempts to ensure the return of Kashmiri Pandits to the Valley to contain the latter politically. It was a Congress minister in Chief Minister Omar Abdullah’s cabinet, Sham Lal Sharma, who asserted: “There is nothing in the constitution which prevents a Hindu from becoming the chief minister. The next chief minister should be a Hindu. There is nobody to take care of the interests of the Jammu region.”
But the government rests on Congress support which has been indispensable to forming a coalition. The Congress has a base in Jammu.BJP is out to break the format. Its president and Prime Minister Modi’s right-hand man, Amit Shah, said recently that “the time had come” for a “nationalist government” in J&K. The people should “throw out” the Abdullah as well as the Mufti dynasties. “The BJP government will help to get justice for Jammu, as the various governments have meted out step-motherly treatment to the region.” He was launching ‘Mission 44-plus’.The language will become even more explicit when Modi descends into the election campaign, with Amit Shah. Regional chauvinism will be identified with religious sentiment, leaving J&K more polarised than ever.In the last decades the BJP worked hard on the Kashmiri Pandit migrants living outside J&K; Moti Kaul, president of the All India Kashmiri Samaj and a BJP man, claims that there are 4,00,000 eligible Pandit voters of whom only 1,26,000 are registered.Constituencies have been identified in which they have a significant presence. They are Habba Kadal, Sopore, Tral and Anantnag in the Valley. In Jammu, the BJP aims at constituencies in which the communal ratio is almost equal. It has identified at least 10 constituencies in the Valley in which Kashmiri Pandits hold the key. Its hopes rest on the Pandits’ vote and success of Syed Ali Shah Geelani’s call for boycott of the elections.
In 2008, his call yielded eight crucial seats in Srinagar to Omar Abdullah to help him form a government. He is unlikely to flinch from such a course now even if it means the success of the BJP’s 44-plus.A low turnout by separatists coupled with sizeable voting by the Pandits will assure the BJP the required seats in the Valley. The calculation is — 41 seats in Jammu and Ladakh and at least three in the Valley to get the 44 out of 87 seats needed to form a government.The BJP is playing with fire. It refuses to reckon with the deep alienation in the Valley. In an interview to Muzamil Jaleel, Omar Abdullah said, “If there is a breakdown of electricity, people come out on the streets to protest and start shouting slogans of azadi. I tried my level best but there are lots of things beyond my control”.A month later on Aug 27, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq said the same thing. “There’s pain and instability. One incident would push it back to square one. Alienation and anger among Kashmiri youth have increased. If dialogue is discredited [cancellation of talks between the Indian and Pakistan foreign secretaries] it would push people to hard-liners”.The Modi government has no plans for a meaningful dialogue with the Kashmiris, still less, with Pakistan. The challenge before Kashmir’s leaders, unionists and separatists alike is to devise a strategy which channelises the alienation into a powerful direction and, in the immediate future, resoundingly defeat the BJP’s nefarious plans.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 07 Sep 2014 15:15

The Army is saving lives in Kashmir whilst the Hurriyat leaders abscond.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 07 Sep 2014 15:55

vivek.rao wrote: What is 3.5?

Unkil + Chipanda + Barbaria = 3
Queendom = 0.5

Paki 4 fathers. Literally and figuratively.