The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2015 08:55

egypt lives quietly with no threats nearby but gets almost as much aid per annum from usa as israel does. this has been for a while...TSPs share is a joke in comparison to the flood of F-solahs and Abrams that egypt gets without fail every year. people give the TSP too much credit as a 'player' .... they dont play in the same high rollers room that israel and egypt have a card for. to their credit, TSP is probably the best among the dregs at playing the game. kind of leader of the back benchers.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Dec 2015 09:03

deleted

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Dec 2015 09:03

A historical perspective on the Russo Turkish war...Russia saved Eastern Europe before, as the demographic threat to Europe grows, Europeans will be forced to look up to Russia to assume its traditional role in Asia Minor

Turkic miscellany: plucking the red apple
by mAnasa-taraMgiNI

In 527 CE Justinian became the emperor at Constantinople. He is remembered as saint in the orthodox church and is famed for his enforcing of the Nicean creed. He crushed other interpretations of the Christianity and rebuilt the famous church known as Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. He then took decisive moves to put an end to heathenism once and for all. He seized control of one of the last surviving center of the Greek/Neoplatonic religion at Athens and forcible suppressed it. He provided muscle to John of Ephesus to convert thousands of heathens throughout Anatolia. After completing the conquest of North Africa he completely suppressed the worship of the Egyptian deity Amun Ra in the midst of the Libyan desert. He crushed the last remaining center of the worship of the goddess Isis in an island on the Nile. He sent missionaries to forcibly convert several Germanic peoples and set up institutional surveillance to check if anyone, including those in high office, practiced heathenism in private. Those who were found to do so were subject to persecutions till the became Christian. The younger Abrahamism turned on the older Abrahamism as Justinian even ordered the persecution of the Jews. Fostering Christianity abroad he sent missionaries from the church of Egypt to subvert the population by carrying out conversions in Iranian territory. He waged holy war on the Zoroastrian Iranians but was thoroughly defeated by them under the leadership of Shah Khosrau-I Anushiruwān. In addition to the Hagia Sophia, he made his mark on Constantinople as the prime nursing father of the Christian church by having a gigantic statue of himself erected therein in 543 CE. This statue showed Justinian riding a horse and holding a globe in his hand. This globe came to be the symbol of the name of Constantinople as the Red Apple.

A century and half later the Red Apple, the pride of the Christian world, was to be coveted by Christianity's equally violent younger sister Mohammedanism. Mohammed the founder of the latter Abrahamism himself believed that some day his followers would take Constantinople. Soon enough in 650 CE the Mohammedans launched their first attack on the city. But it was to take them 13 attempts when finally the Osmans under Sultan Mehmed-II took in 1453 CE. Between the first Arab attack on the city and its final conquest in 1453 CE, the Mohammedans were not the only ones seeking to take the city. Between 860 to 941 CE the heathen Khaganate of the Rus made 3-4 attempts to take the city albeit without success. However, following this period they were converted to the orthodox flavor of Christianity, which resulted in them becoming coreligionists of the Byzantines who came to see the city as their own religious guide.

In 1451 CE the Mehmed, who had been underestimated by the western Christian powers, decided the fulfill the hope of the founder of Islam: “One day Constantinople will certainly be conquered. A good Amir al Momin and a good army will be able to accomplish this.” Before Mehmed his grandfather Sultan Bayezid-I had tried to take Constantinople after an eight year siege but just before he accomplished his objective, Islam being bloody within and without, he was struck in the rear by Amir Timur. Routed by Timur, Bayezid was taken prisoner and died in captivity. But the 20 year old Mehmed was not daunted by all this and started rigorous preparations to take the Red Apple. Having rapidly built multiple fortifications to secure his crossing of the Bosporus strait, in late 1452 CE he sent a ghāzī force under Turahan Pasha to fiercely attack the Greek territory of the Peloponnese to prevent any help from that quarter. Then the Sultan himself at the head of his Yenicheri forces (i.e. European boys captured early in their life and converted to Islam as the Sultan's personal force) led the siege of the city from the landward side in 1453. His naval divisions surrounded to city except for the inlet of the sea, the Golden Horn. Here the Christians had set up strong counter-naval chain preventing entry of the Turkic navy. The Sultan sent his admiral Suleiman Baltoghlu to probe this defense with his ships. The admiral conquered the islands in the Sea of Marmara and engaged the Christian ships on 20th April 1453 CE. In the naval battle that ensued the Moslems suffered heavy losses and four Christian ships broke the blockade and supplied the besieged city with grains.

The Sultan was in despair when his Sufi adviser Shaikh Akshamseddin sent him a message that he had heard from Allah that victory was at hand. The Sultan and his ghāzīs' morale was raised and two days later the Sultan started rolling his ships by way of land from the north into the Golden Horn and week later they were already in the inlet completing the encirclement of Constantinople. The Christians launched one last naval attack hoping to destroy these ships but the Mohammedans routed them this time around and sunk their ships. On the landward side the Sultan kept up the bombardment with his heavy artillery, including the over one ton bolides launched from a gigantic cannon cast by the renegade German-Hungarian engineer Urban. These assaults eventually breached the walls of the city and on May 29th 1453 CE three hours before dawn the Mohammedans launched an all out assault on the city in three waves. The third wave broke through the Christian defenses and Sultan leading the Yenicheri force charged into a gateway. Here the Christians launched a massed attack on the Sultan and his men. He fell back and bit and ordered fire from his heavily artillery. This broke up the Christian defense and smashed the gateway allowing the Moslems to pour in. Fierce fighting followed for a while in which the last Christian ruler of Constantinople was killed and his corpse never recovered.

The Mohammedan chronicler Tursun Bey gives a florid account of the last battle:
“Once the smoke of Greek fire and the soul of the Fire-worshipping prince had descended over the castle “as though a shadow (a quotation from the Qoran)” the import was manifest: the devout Sultan of good fortune had, as it were “suspended the mountain (another Qoranic quotation)” over this people of polytheism and destruction like Allah himself. Thus, both from within and without, the cannons and muskets and falconets and small arrows and arrows and crossbows spewed and flung out a profusion of drops of Pharaonic-seeming perspiration as in the rains of April – like a messenger of the prayers of the Moslems – and a veritable precipitation and downpouring of calamities from the heavens as decreed by Allah. And, from the furthest reaches below to the topmost parts, and from the upper heights down to ground level, hand-to-hand combat and charging was being joined with a clashing and plunging of arms and hooked pikes and halbreds in the breaches amidst the ruin wrought by the cannon...” [From Osman's Dream by Caroline Finkel]

It is rather remarkable to note that Moslems, despite fighting a sister Abrahamism, where still unable to outgrow their original imagery of the destruction of the fire-worshiping Iranians. The church of Hagia Sophia was promptly made into a masjid – verily even as the second Abrahmism had sown by destroying heathen temples to erect their churches they were now reaping with the third Abrahamism coming to return the favor to them. Shaikh Akshamseddin led the Mohammedans in their prayer at the newly acquired masjid. In the mean time the pious Shaikh claimed to have discovered the mazhār of the Arab Jihadist Ayub Ansari (a friend of Mohammad the founder of Islam) who had died in course of the attack on Constantinople in the 668 CE. The Turks took this to be a miracle and built a large dargah in his honor. Mehmed now taking on the title Fetih further rubbed in to Christians by adding a madrasah to the Hagia Sophia complex. He followed it up by converting five more churches to masjids and adding more madarasahs to the mix. The irony was complete when Mehmet took on the title Kayser-i Rum and demolished the gargantuan statue of Justinian – younger Abrahamism was only doing to the older what it had done to the images of the heathens. This was one the high-points of Mohammedanism in the west – the Red Apple had finally been plucked and eaten by Allah's marauders – now it was Istanbul rhyming with Islambol (i.e. full of Islam).

The Osman Khilafat has since ceased to exist but Istanbul remains in Turkish hands. But there was one power that did not let this possession go unchallenged. The vicissitudes of history eventually raised the successor state of the Khaganate of the Rus, the tsardom of Russia over the Osmans. The tsar of all Russias indeed shared a title with the Osman Sultans after the conquest of Constantinople – tsar and Kayser-i Rum. This was not just limited to that. As the most powerful force in the world of orthodox Christianity Russia saw itself as a protector of the Church against Islam. In the 1850s the Russians had inflicted a heavy blow on the declining Osman power by smashing their fleet at Sinope. But the West in the form of the English and the French came to the aid of the Turks and helped inflict a blow on the Russians in the Crimean war. Thus they imposed a humiliating treaty on the Russians on account of which they could not have a fleet on the Black Sea. The Russian did not take this lying down. Aided by the diplomatic links to the Germanic power of Prussia the Russians worked on countering the west. The Prussians defeated the French, the fellow Germanic Austrians and the Danes with the support of the Russians and unified the core Germania to form the new nation of Germany. Aided by Germany the Russians cast off the humiliating treaty imposed on them. Finally, in 1877 to avenge Crimea the Russians attacked the Osman Turks. Now they were helped the freedom movements in Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro and were able to inflict heavy losses on the Moslem acting as defenders of the church. In this war the Russian came within 20 km of Istanbul but failed to take it. However, they did gain territory and inflict a serious blow on the Osmans that was eventually to prove to be their undoing.

A lesson from all this for the Hindu is that Mohammedanism can be remarkably persistent in its goals of conquest. Hence, merely preventing conquest is not sufficient. Rather, completely rolling back Mohammedanism from reconquered lands is essential. The Russian hand in achieving this in Eastern Europe has been downplayed or in some cases outright denied in tellings of history by the Anglosphere and its vassals. In any case some of these lands in Eastern Europe have been left permanently scarred despite their liberation. However, a closer look shows that while the Europeans have regained some of these lands their hold on it might not be for ever and a new wave of Mohammedanism with new tactics might eventually succeed where even Suleyman failed.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Dec 2015 09:04

Report: Russian ground troops arrive in Syria in unprecedented military action
http://www.jpost.com/page.aspx?pageid=7 ... eid=435024

In an unprecedented move, Russia has sent ground-troops into the Syrian battlefield in support of Bashar Assad as the dictator struggles to maintain his power in the continuous four-year-long civil war, according to a report by Kuwaiti daily al-Rai. The report, which has not been substantiated by other sources, claims Russian military forces have been providing cover for T-90 tanks along with military air support which have attacked multiple strategic targets held by rebel forces in Idlib and Latakia.In September, multiple US officials claimed that Russia had positioned about a half dozen tanks at a Syrian airfield at the center of a military buildup.One US official said seven Russian T-90 tanks were observed at the airfield near Latakia, a stronghold of Syrian President Bashar Assad.
The Kuwaiti report adds that Russian forces have already taken over multiple strategic positions and have forced numerous rebel battalions to retreat. The report did not disclose whether there were Russian army casualties. Over the last three months, Russia has steadily increased its participation in the Syrian domestic conflict, launching airstrikes from its bases in western Syria as it drops thousands of sorties on enemy targets. Along with airstrikes, Russia has also increased its naval presence in the Mediterranean Sea along the Syrian coast while it coordinates with Iranian military forces and Hezbollah.Russian President Vladimir Putin stated on several past occasions that his country had no intention of sending boots on the ground to participate in the Syrian civil war.If the report is correct, it could signify a dramatic shift in Russian policy, or merely be a one-time specific action.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 01 Dec 2015 09:07

Sitrep - Syria:

The green area (rebel control) north of Aleppo and bordering Turkey is under pressure from all sides. Rebels are also getting hit at Darra, East Ghouta (where civilians have held protests to accept and implement ceasefire), Jobbar ( a 350 mtr tunnel was discovered and destroyed here), Homs, Hama and Idlib among other places.

ISIS held Palmyra has seen intense Russian interests in the last 24 hours with more than 40 airstrikes. ISIS has also lost another village close to Al Kuweiris airfield East of Aleppo.

YPG / PKK have had a major fallout with SDF and FSA. Lot of groups in SDF have abandoned the alliance and some groups have actually attacked SDF allied groups. All in all SDF is a mess and there is no clear synchronised fighting force against SAA + other than Al Nusra and ISIS.

Rumoured that 02 ISIS fighters are on the run with lot of cash stolen from ISIS in Raqqa and ISIS is desperately trying to catch them.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2015 09:11

deejay wrote:Apologies for this (and as the tweet says, I am speechless)

https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1

Haidar Sumeri ‏@IraqiSecurity Nov 28
Images taken from the cellphone of a Da'ish militant in the 5 Kilo region west of Ramadi, #Iraq.

I'm speechless

The US will go to war for backing these shites!

Living Kalakeyas from movie Bahubali!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2015 09:13

Singha wrote:egypt lives quietly with no threats nearby but gets almost as much aid per annum from usa as israel does. this has been for a while...TSPs share is a joke in comparison to the flood of F-solahs and Abrams that egypt gets without fail every year. people give the TSP too much credit as a 'player' .... they dont play in the same high rollers room that israel and egypt have a card for. to their credit, TSP is probably the best among the dregs at playing the game. kind of leader of the back benchers.

Parity in US military aid to Egypt is part of Camp David accords.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2015 09:27

which was some 40 years ago right?

truly the golden cow gives milk forever...

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 01 Dec 2015 09:44

It seems that US is keen to get boots on ground in Iraq and the Iraqis don't want it.

https://twitter.com/IraqiSecurity

Haidar Sumeri ‏@IraqiSecurity now6 hours ago
Haidar Sumeri Retweeted Sajad Jiyad سجاد
Even if Abadi wanted #US boots on the ground (he doesn't), there's absolutely no way #Iraq's people would accept it. Haidar Sumeri added,
Sajad Jiyad سجاد @SajadJiyad
PM Abadi responds to McCain/Graham comments: we have enough manpower to defeat daesh. This war against Daesh will be fought by Iraqi hands

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 01 Dec 2015 09:46

This is twitter news so verification will be needed:

Haidar Sumeri Retweeted
Fer G ‏@FGunay1 Nov 30
Some of the "humanitarian aid" Al-Qaeda receives from Turkey. This was found in a truck belonging to @IHHen

As predicted on this twitter handle the fight between US backed militias could be because this aid from Turkey has now become scarce due to Russian bombing. As resources get stretched, the infighting will grow.

Added Later: Another view from the same twitter handle:

Haidar Sumeri ‏@IraqiSecurity now7 hours ago
The internecine tendencies of jihadi groups in #Syria will bring about their eventual downfall. Far more destructive than any air campaign.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 01 Dec 2015 10:38

TSJones wrote:I have to admit that you guy's faith in vaunted Russian eagerness for war and nukes is simply amazing.

I've never seen such a chorus of Cassandras in a long time. And I grew up when elementary schools practiced nuclear war drills once a month by doing duck and cover underneath our desks or out in the school hallway.

Nobody is shooting American F-16s or will do so. the US won't put themselves in a position to be shot down with out the means to protect themselves. I'll know when they are ready when the USAF 14th FS Samurai arrive in Turkey. Otherwise known as the Wild Weasels.

Turkey will allow the Russian ships to transit the straits. Eventually. Prolly in a day or two when they get the message across to Russia that two can play economic slowdown game. And then randomly there after until everybody sobers up.

Off topic but what brings you to BRF?

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 01 Dec 2015 13:22

One swift and short way to bring peace to middle east is to put a megaton nuke over Istanbul,Riyadh and Doha. That will bring everyone to fall in line including the crude & gas prices. V-lad , can you do that ?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 01 Dec 2015 13:37

Chinmayanand wrote:One swift and short way to bring peace to middle east is to put a megaton nuke over Istanbul,Riyadh and Doha. That will bring everyone to fall in line including the crude & gas prices. V-lad , can you do that ?

I am sure you don't mean that. This is neither a swift/ short nor is it really up to Russia.

Middle East will never be peaceful enough just like Afghanistan with each Kabila killing the other Kabila and reproducing at a faster rate to keep the stocks replenished.

They were always at it but in a globalised, internet-worked world we come to know of it.

Russia is keeping its geo-strategic interests while US is keeping its. However, the US has decided to back forces like Al Nusra and ISIS and has actively spread rebellion and massacre in Syria. Its double speak and proxy games are abhor-able and more and more genocidal with about 380,000+ dead in Syria alone. All this since the 'color revolution' began which they supported, abetted and funded and they blame Assad.

Add the numbers in Iraq since 2003, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt etc and one feels it is time the US reign of terror because of its monopoly ends. There are two countries which could end this - Russia and China and surely together they are a formidable opponent at least militarily.

We in India might feel greater affinity to Russians because of long friendly relations or because of GOTUS support to terrorists but for us it is best to stay on the side and hope the world survives this kind of catastrophe.

Wishing nuclear war is suicidal. Wishing a war between Russia and US (proxy NATO) is equally suicidal and must be avoided.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 01 Dec 2015 13:40

RoyG wrote:Off topic but what brings you to BRF?

A yearning for attention he would not receive otherwise, as his contributions are non-existent beyond their trolling value. We treat TSJones w/kid gloves here owing to his gora status but the Ron Paul \ libertarian types would humiliate him on any US forum.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 01 Dec 2015 13:51

Could this possibly be true ?

http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish ... the-future

Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future.

habal · Post by **habal** » 01 Dec 2015 13:55

When british say they want to join 'the campaign' in Syria .. what exactly do they mean
options
1. Do they want to bomb their share of power plants & water pumping stations ?
2. participate in the coalition of fun & games when Russia is barricaded in black sea ?
3. bombing the Syrian people & govt under excuse of 'protecting da peoples' and stop the refugees from fleeing ?
4. replace 'No Fly Zone' imposed by Russia with 'NATO bombing zone' in Syria. Anyone remember Libya.
5. they are high on drugs
6. all of above

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2015 14:11

huge must-see map of the new syria-iraq. I am not inlining it due to size

https://imagopyrenaei.files.wordpress.c ... an-30n.png

as you can see the only 100% non-kurdish route into turkey is via the aleppo region (azaz, jabal tourkman) on both sides of the YPG NW pocket there.

ISIS is oversized in the map by painting all desert areas as black.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2015 14:15

also it seems the sunni tribes are a small fraction of the SDF and the kurds are loathe to lose blood putting this small minority sunni element on the throne of Raqqa. without kurd muscle the sunni tribes cannot do anything about raqqa.

so this is where Uncle's plans for a sunni bantustan in the interior seems to be stuck. various inducements and threats must be going on wrt to the kurds to make them move south. because even SF people calling in B52 is of no use if no boots follow up.

in iraq the shia militias and shia-heavy national army want no part of this bantustan should take over an inch of their country.

this leave potentially just a upper section of the euphrates valley with some 2 mil population HQ'ed at raqqa as the takings from the table. right now not even a charismatic sunni leader exists to project as a 'leader' (Saddam was the last one!)

if they cannot have their bantustan they will fall back on plan-B and try to destroy all national infra before the SAA comes up from the south.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Dec 2015 14:28

So CaMoron will get his dirty little war after all. Britain joins the banquet when the pudding is being served!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 55151.html
.Syria air strikes: Jeremy Corbyn to clash with Hilary Benn on Labour front bench ahead of free vote
MPs to debate air strikes tomorrow as Labour party squabble descends into farce with rancorous shadow cabinet meeting

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Dec 2015 14:29

Singha wrote:also it seems the sunni tribes are a small fraction of the SDF and the kurds are loathe to lose blood putting this small minority sunni element on the throne of Raqqa. without kurd muscle the sunni tribes cannot do anything about raqqa.

so this is where Uncle's plans for a sunni bantustan in the interior seems to be stuck. various inducements and threats must be going on wrt to the kurds to make them move south. because even SF people calling in B52 is of no use if no boots follow up.

in iraq the shia militias and shia-heavy national army want no part of this bantustan should take over an inch of their country.

this leave potentially just a upper section of the euphrates valley with some 2 mil population HQ'ed at raqqa as the takings from the table. right now not even a charismatic sunni leader exists to project as a 'leader' (Saddam was the last one!)

if they cannot have their bantustan they will fall back on plan-B and try to destroy all national infra before the SAA comes up from the south.

they're stuck because Qbama won't move w/o overwhelming forces which are not yet in position. meanwhile the psycho killers are having an easy time of it with Russia concentrating on north west Syria. It could take another week or so before Obama is satisfied that it safe for him to attack with overwhelming assets. Hopefully Turkey and Russia will kiss and makeup soon.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Dec 2015 15:04

cameron's primary motive seems to be to keep in with hollande and obama, rather than any real/specific military objectives. hollande has been giving him the full court press on this, and the americans are always poking them and making fun of their has-been status. there are no clear war aims here, and the dismantling of terror groups in europe will be better served by tackling wahabbism at its source rather than flatten raqqa

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Dec 2015 15:07

Here come the CaMoron islanders!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 55341.html
Syria air strikes: Extra RAF planes to be sent to base as Britain prepares for war against Isis
The RAF is preparing to receive new jets at its base in Cyprus ready for the expected 'yes' vote in Parliament tomorrow

Extra planes are expected to be sent to Cyprus as Britain prepares to go to war with Isis in Syria.

The Defence Secretary will confirm the use of a second Airseeker Rivet Joint spy plane later today, ahead of MPs’ vote on whether to extend British military intervention tomorrow.

The RAF’s fleet of aircraft stationed in Cyprus will double if David Cameron’s proposals are approved, and the Daily Mail reports that two extra Tornado fighter jets and six Typhoons equipped with laser-guided missiles will make up the numbers.
Eight Tornados are already stationed in Cyprus

Eight Tornados are already stationed at RAF Akrotiri, where they have been launching from for Operation Shader – the UK’s bombing mission against Isis in Iraq that started in September 2014.

The Ministry of Defence has not confirmed reports that strikes against the terror group in Syria could start “within hours” of an anticipated vote of approval in the Commons tomorrow.

Returning to Downing Street after attending the opening of international climate change talks in Paris yesterday, the Prime Minister said there was “growing support” across Parliament to join a growing international coalition in Syria.

“We will be acting with our allies, we will be careful and responsible as we do so, but in my view it’s the right thing to do this to keep our country safe,” he said.
PM: Bombing Syria is necessary
Mr Cameron will formally seek the backing of senior colleagues for his strategy at today's meeting of the Cabinet in Downing Street.

He has urged MPs to support the military action they rejected two years ago following Francois Hollande’s appeal for increased efforts to combat Isis following the attacks that killed 130 people in Paris.

The French President has travelled from Washington to Moscow seeking greater co-operation between the US and Russia in a diplomatic push that was almost derailed by the downing of a Russian jet by Turkey, a Nato member.

His wish for the UK to join the expanded coalition in Syria looks set to be granted after Jeremy Corbyn was forced to give Labour MPs a free vote in the face of a threatened revolt during a stormy meeting of the shadow cabinet.

Diane Abbott, the shadow International Development Secretary, had claimed that a free vote would hand victory to Mr Cameron “on a plate”.

The Leader of the Opposition called for a two-day Commons debate, which would have meant delaying the vote until next week, but the move was rejected by the Prime Minister.

Labour sources suggested that 43 per cent of Labour MPs - almost 100 out of the party's tally of 231 - supported air strikes in Syria, although it was unclear how many will vote with the Government

PS:Ramana,"every court must have its clown"!How can the court of King O'Bomber be without its jester in tow?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 55386.html

Syria air strikes will only make Isis more determined to come to Britain to kill us, says Ken Livingstone
Former Mayor of London warned that bombing Syria would serve as a 'good recruiting sergeant' for Isis

Extending British air strikes into Syria would only make Isis more determined to “come here and kill us,” Ken Livingstone has said.

Ahead the crunch vote in Parliament tomorrow on whether Britain should join military action against Isis in Syria, the former Mayor of London warned that it would make the UK more at-risk of a terrorist threat.

He said it would also serve as a “good recruiting sergeant” for the Islamic terrorists.
Read more
Tom Peck's Sketch: Stop the war? Hey, let’s start two more

"No-one is going to get safer. We are going to get more at-risk,” Mr Livingstone told the Today programme.

"I should imagine the security services are warning the Prime Minister that we are already at risk and that this bombing exercise will almost certainly heighten that risk.

"They will be more determined to come here and kill us."

MPs will vote on extending the RAF strikes to Syria in Parliament on Wednesday, with Prime Minister's Questions cancelled to make enough time for the debate.

David Cameron was given a significant boost in his bid to win parliamentary approval after Jeremy Corbyn failed to convince his Shadow Cabinet to oppose the air strikes.

Labour MPs will now be given a free vote, with Mr Corbyn opposing military action but his Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn voting in favour.

Speaking on the Today programme, Mr Benn praised Mr Corbyn for backing down and granting Labour MPs a free vote and also suggested his stance could change, depending on the motion put forward to MPs on Wednesday.

"People of principle can reach different decisions about how to deal with a threat... people of conscience have reached different views about what the right thing to do is and those views are sincerely held and we should respect them and we have to listen to many voices, our constituents our party members, our colleagues in the House of Commons and of course the discussions that we have had in the Shadow Cabinet.

"I think it is to the great credit of Jeremy as a leader that he has recognised that there is a difference of view on this most important of questions. And we have decided - he has decided - that we are going to have a free vote.

"I have reached the conclusion, obviously yet to see the Government's motion, but I have reached the conclusion that we need to take this action because there is a clear and present threat from Isil/Daesh."

Mr Livingstone, who was Mayor of London when 52 people were killed in the 7/7 bombings in the capital, said Isis would only be defeated by troops on the ground.

But he said Britain, the United States and France should send troops into Syria because of their recent history in the Middle East.

Instead they should work towards getting a UN Coalition of troops to go into Syria.
“Every military person I’ve heard on radio and TV says bombing doesn’t actually win you a war,” he said.

“We need to have troops on the ground; Britain and America and France are so discredited in the Middle East after Iraq and Afghanistan [that] we need that UN coalition to provide that coalition to actually provide those troops.

“Countries like China, Nigeria, Brazil as well as Russia so it’s not just seen as the West protecting its own oil interests.”

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 01 Dec 2015 15:16

All ties between Turkey and Jihadis are in this report. Well researched with links

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-p ... verride=in

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Dec 2015 15:18

livingstone and corbyn are idiots. the islamists will target the UK no matter what. not bombing daesh in syria will not prevent attacks
however bombing them in syria may disrupt their central nodes and eliminate some british jehadis
of course more will take their place, but they are living in the UK already and not in syria

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2015 15:34

Bhurishrava wrote:Could this possibly be true ?

http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish ... the-future

Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future.

he has been quoted in multiple sources. This clown is turkish "intelligence"??

may be when he hit his head as a baby, he did not have his ottoman fez on, thereby suffering grievous injury??

The IQ levels of this clown and that of his joker of a boss, erdogan, seem to be the same as their shoe sizes and that's in the lower single digits (Indian shoe size's only!!)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2015 16:29

got this link from ivan sidorenko's twitter feed. new airbase being readied in the south.

According to the source ” the two-runways-three kilometers long Sha’yarat ‘ airport contains about 45 fortified hangar that can protect any damage to air jets and personnel in the event of shelling. A team of Russian and Syrian engineers is already working at al-Sha’ayrat and will be operational when Russian jets are less busy in the north of Syria. Russian Air Force has intensified its sorties recently and is dedicating most of its operation against pro-Turkish and pro al-Qaeda (Jabhat al-Nusra) fighters. Gathering of forces and convoy aid crossing the borders from Turkey into Syria are hit by Russia in response to the downing of its Su-24 and the killing of the pilot by pro-Turkey ground militia while in the air.”

“Ground military operation in the vicinity of Palmyra will soon regain its intensity against ISIS. The coalition forces (Iran, Hezbollah and the Iraqi and Syrian forces) have reached the city limits but needs air support to minimize losses. Russia has promised that it will raise the number of its aircraft to above 100 to meet the needs of ground forces. Moscow is sending a large number of multiple (24) unguided rocket launchers and thermobaric Pinocchio TOS-1, designed for defeating enemy personnel in fortifications in open space. Russian forces is already using it to bomb Jabal al-Akrad and pro-Turkey Turkmen deployed not only on the border between the two countries, but also in the countryside of the province of Latakia and A’zaz “, he said.

According to the source “since Turkey shot down the Sukhoi 24 last week on the borders, inside Syria, Russian Air force focused on targeting any truck crossings A’zaz and Bab al-Salama borders into Syria as a response to Turkey proxies. Russia will gradually increase it support to allies in Syria to remove the Syrian opposition from the Syrian-Turkish border. Russia considers all non-secular opposition forces and those receiving foreign military support as legitimate targets and part of a crackdown on terrorism in the Levant. ”

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2015 16:40

morning ledger:

Now, Russian pilots are being given pistols, as well as Kalashnikov machine guns as a precaution in case they are forced to eject themselves out of the plane and find themselves in need of defense on the ground.

The machine guns are being stored inside the pilots’ seats, which would eject with them in the case of an emergency evacuation. They are being put where inflatable boats were previously kept, along with several rounds of ammunition. Additionally, each pilot is equipped with a Strechkin automatic pistol, along with four sets of bullets, to use in self-defense.

In addition to the newly added guns, the safety emergency kits for pilots also contain a compass, a signal flare, a machete, a mirror to use as for signals, a radio transmitter, and waterproof matches.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Dec 2015 16:57

Bhurishrava wrote:Could this possibly be true ?

http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish ... the-future

Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future.

No indication of its veracity. The article says Anadolu News Agency, which is the official Turkish news agency, but I can't find it anywhere there. No real carry through in any mainstream outlet, the closest I've come to is freerepublic and reddit.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2015 17:13

JE Menon wrote:
{quote="Bhurishrava"}Could this possibly be true ?

http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish ... the-future

Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future.{/quote}

No indication of its veracity. The article says Anadolu News Agency, which is the official Turkish news agency, but I can't find it anywhere there. No real carry through in any mainstream outlet, the closest I've come to is freerepublic and reddit.

http://fortruss.blogspot.com.au/2015/11 ... is-is.html

November 24, 2015

AWD News

Posted October 18, 2015

Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future

Ankara--- Hakan Fidan, the head of Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, known by the MİT acronym, has drawn a lot of attention and criticism for his controversial comments about ISIS.

Mr. Hakan Fidan, Turkish President's staunchest ally, condemned Russian military intervention in Syria, accusing Moscow of trying to 'smother' Syria's Islamist revolution and serious breach of United Nations law.

“ISIS is a reality and we have to accept that we cannot eradicate a well-organized and popular establishment such as the Islamic State; therefore I urge my western colleagues to revise their mindset about Islamic political currents, put aside their cynical mentalité and thwart Vladimir Putin's plans to crush Syrian Islamist revolutionaries,” - Anadolu News Agency quoted Mr. Fidan as saying on Sunday.

all seeem to say the same thing

"Anadolu News Agency quoted Mr. Fidan as saying on Sunday"

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Dec 2015 17:42

At some point Iran will have to come out in the open against Turkey. Asad is in rebuild phase, Iraq is too weak, has US troops on its soil and Kurds will not take on the Turks unless Kurdish areas are threatened.

In any case, it appears Kurds are too close to the Americans to be a anything beyond being a transactional ally of Roos.

All these Americans volunteers joining PKK....there is more to it than meets the eye.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Dec 2015 17:43

Singha wrote:morning ledger:

Now, Russian pilots are being given pistols, as well as Kalashnikov machine guns as a precaution in case they are forced to eject themselves out of the plane and find themselves in need of defense on the ground.

The machine guns are being stored inside the pilots’ seats, which would eject with them in the case of an emergency evacuation. They are being put where inflatable boats were previously kept, along with several rounds of ammunition. Additionally, each pilot is equipped with a Strechkin automatic pistol, along with four sets of bullets, to use in self-defense.

In addition to the newly added guns, the safety emergency kits for pilots also contain a compass, a signal flare, a machete, a mirror to use as for signals, a radio transmitter, and waterproof matches.

i remember the interview with the british pilot who was shot down in GW1. he recalls taking up a defensive position with his nav and they pulled out their browning pistols. then they saw the platoon of heavily armed iraqis coming and realised that in the open without cover, their 'pop guns' wouldn't let them last 30 seconds. he made the decision to surrender and hoped to stay alive. i don't think the russians can expect to be 'arrested' and taken for interrogation by a cohesive force. the two brits were beaten up in jail but they did survive the war.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2015 17:50

there is more to it than meets the eye.

After those pics of the Kurd AK-toting mohtermas?

Where are your Chivalry and Sense of Priorities, hain?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2015 17:50

Lalmohan wrote:
Singha wrote:morning ledger:

Now, Russian pilots are being given pistols, as well as Kalashnikov machine guns as a precaution in case they are forced to eject themselves out of the plane and find themselves in need of defense on the ground.

The machine guns are being stored inside the pilots’ seats, which would eject with them in the case of an emergency evacuation. They are being put where inflatable boats were previously kept, along with several rounds of ammunition. Additionally, each pilot is equipped with a Strechkin automatic pistol, along with four sets of bullets, to use in self-defense.

In addition to the newly added guns, the safety emergency kits for pilots also contain a compass, a signal flare, a machete, a mirror to use as for signals, a radio transmitter, and waterproof matches.
i remember the interview with the british pilot who was shot down in GW1. he recalls taking up a defensive position with his nav and they pulled out their browning pistols. then they saw the platoon of heavily armed iraqis coming and realised that in the open without cover, their 'pop guns' wouldn't let them last 30 seconds. he made the decision to surrender and hoped to stay alive. i don't think the russians can expect to be 'arrested' and taken for interrogation by a cohesive force. the two brits were beaten up in jail but they did survive the war.

whatever you may say, pilots who have strafed/bombed a particular area and have the misfortune to be shot down / eject over the same area very rarely survive the fury of the people that they have just attacked. No UN resolutions, international treaties and whatnot is going to change this fact.

some who do survive, do so against all odds.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2015 17:56

Lalmohan wrote:
Singha wrote:morning ledger:
then they saw the platoon of heavily armed iraqis coming and realised that in the open without cover, their 'pop guns' wouldn't let them last 30 seconds.

The british also used the same logic to surrender to the Sierra Leone Lolliop Kindergartners. It was their fine French training at Eton and Sandhurst.

The problem is not to win against a heavily armed platoon - it is to hold them off for say 1 hour max. The platoon commander still has to face the problem that the first 3 or even 10 to break cover will get shot, and they can't really throw grenades because they want to capture the pilots alive. This creates a space of at least a few minutes - and one hopes air cover is quick in arriving. After that, the advantage is with the pilots.

If they kill the pilots, then the Platoon will be hunted all the way by the air cover. I still don't understand why there was enough of the Russian pilot's body to deliver to the Turks after the RUAF was through with their revenge. Poor shooting. They did say that they were the ones who 'took out' the helicopter after it crash-landed, with the Marine shot through the head. The "TOW" stuff was garbage - if they used a TOW on an already downed military helicopter, they are, well, as smart as they are.

The problem in the case of the Su-24 was that the pilot got shot on the way down while hanging from his parachute. Can one retrieve the AK from the seat-back whatever during the descent, and give the upward wedding shooters something to think about?

I hope the Russians also provide cyanide capsules.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Dec 2015 17:57

Using Kurds against Turkey by Russia is a double edged sword . Iran may have second thoughts on this move

Kurds have designs on Iranian territory too

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Dec 2015 18:03

Chetak, Anadolu is to Turkey almost like PTI is to India. I could not find that quote anywhere...but I found this

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/statemen ... cy-/448685

Does not mean the story did not exist... It may have been quickly pulled.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Dec 2015 18:06

ulan saheb - i was told a tale by a former raf navigator who said that during their interrogation survival training - they were given some stats on survival rates. the key to survival (against a logical military system) is not to talk. once you have talked, there is no incentive to keep you alive. of course until then you are subject to the tender mercies of the rubber hose and electrodes. anyway - from data gathered during the korean war, the race with the highest survival rate in pow camps were the... wait for it... turks. very hardy people, can take a lot of punishment. i am sure the roosis are close behind.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 01 Dec 2015 18:10

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/671672629103865856

Agence France-PresseVerified account
‏@AFP
#BREAKING Syria deal for rebels to leave last Homs district: governor

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2015 18:12

JE Menon wrote:Chetak, Anadolu is to Turkey almost like PTI is to India. I could not find that quote anywhere...but I found this

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/statemen ... cy-/448685

Does not mean the story did not exist... It may have been quickly pulled.

i looked at over twenty sites and they all said the same thing.

Your theory that it may have been quickly pulled seems the best fit. I tried to search google / the anadolu site, in different ways but got zilch

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Dec 2015 19:04

http://www.syriadeeply.org/articles/201 ... pposition/
Jihadists in Syria.