Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Sep 2011 22:55

and of course, "Where's the freak'n armour,targetting & sight systems "

right where it's supposed to be !
or does that round thing on the nose look like a football to our expert here ?!

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 06 Sep 2011 23:15

Rahul M wrote: or does that round thing on the nose look like a football to our expert here ?!

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 07 Sep 2011 03:28

Rahul M wrote:and of course, "Where's the freak'n armour,targetting & sight systems "

right where it's supposed to be !
or does that round thing on the nose look like a football to our expert here ?!

Saar, it seems that Leo wants a Flying Arjun onlee

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 09 Sep 2011 12:12

Can anybody point me to IR suppressor materials ?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 09 Sep 2011 18:29

Indian attack chopper expected by year end

GeorgeM · Post by **GeorgeM** » 10 Sep 2011 01:16

Leo.Davidson wrote:
Ramesh wrote:^^^
Lets see two scenarios:
1. Dhruv comes, few good guys slither down, heli returns back & good guys engage the bad guys.
2. Rudra comes, few good guys slither down & good guys engage the bad guys with rudra acting as aerial fire base.
Which one would you prefer?
Both these scenario's befit Sholay/Chhattisgarh.

The US used armed Huey's extensively in Vietnam, but that was the 60's and the vietcom did not have SAM's or AA's (in numbers) or an airforce. Porkistan has an inventory of AA guns, rocket launchers, shoulder launched - Stinger, SA-7, Mistral, chinese manpad's; RBS-70. Neither Dhruv or Rudra will survive even the boom of these weapons.

Leo, Life of a newbie on BRF can sometimes be very close to reality. Its alright. But I suggest you enter with some amount of reserve humility, just in case. Here is a very graphic depiction of a typical BRF newbie Lifecycle

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 10 Sep 2011 09:33

Leo.Davidson wrote:Probably if they tweaked a little more harder we could have a mach helicopter

Leo, not sure what a Mach Helicopter is but the Dhruv is the best in it class, no other 5 tonne helicopter packs so many features + performance. The closest competitor is the in-development AW Lynx Wildcat, that too weighs 6 tons and probably cant match the high altitude performance of Dhruv. The next competitor is the Eurocopter Panther, whose Chinese rip-off serves with Pakistan, that lacks many features & capabilities.

I had observed the Dhruv prototype sea trials on Ganga and Viraat in the 90's and it looked exciting & promising at that point of time.

I dont know IA & IAF operational doctrine for WSI Dhruv, but I am guessing Combat Search & Rescue will be a primary task.

In a CSAR situation, the enemy knows you're coming and can prepare an ambush that you'll need to fight through. Hence rescue choppers need to be armoured and weaponized.

During the US SS Mayaguez rescue incident, USAF HH-53 - originally built for downed crew rescue - had better armour and firepower than USMC MH-53 - a standard transport helicopter. The HH-53 performed better than the MH-53 when the basic helicopter was the same.

In the Jaffna University raid, the IAF stopped flying after choppers took battle damage. With WSI Dhruv, the IAF can fight through and evacuate.

In the Indian scenario, dropping supplies or casevac to/from own small pickets on himalayan ridgelines and ability to defend from enemy pickets in close proximity will be useful.

A standard transport helicopter CH-53/MH-53/Dhruv always depends on the element of surprise or protection from other assets. But when surprise isnt available, organic protection + firepower is invaluable.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 10 Sep 2011 09:58

Leo, Life of a newbie on BRF can sometimes be very close to reality. Its alright. But I suggest you enter with some amount of reserve humility, just in case. Here is a very graphic depiction of a typical BRF newbie Lifecycle

+ 10^10

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Sep 2011 21:19

Sidharth wrote:

This is a real classic and a keeper. Well done.

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 10 Sep 2011 21:34

going through the links on this page is leaving me confused onlee...

Is Rudra = WSI-Dhruv or is it LCH ?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 10 Sep 2011 21:47

^^
Rudra= WSI-Dhruv.

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 10 Sep 2011 22:41

thanks...
this confused me >>>

The Rudra version has the two pilots sitting one behind the other.

DDM at its best

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Sep 2011 13:09

tsarkar wrote:
Leo.Davidson wrote:Probably if they tweaked a little more harder we could have a mach helicopter
Leo, not sure what a Mach Helicopter is

I think he meant macho helicopter "longer, stiffer, harder, throbbing-er" like TFTA.

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 11 Sep 2011 15:13

I recently read this TOI.Can anyone shed any light on this.

Post-9/11, US sought India's military help for Afghan ops

US asked India for berthing rights and IAF facilities for it's bombers and troops.Good to see some politician actually bothered to listen to the Armed Forces.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 939394.cms

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 12 Sep 2011 22:24

gurus which is the pylon to the left, on the wing ? it seems to be having points for multiple weapons ???

is it for the FAB-500 ?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 12 Sep 2011 23:35

^^^Yup.. Multiple bomb rail for carrying the 100kg and 250 kg dumb bombs..

abhinavjo · Post by **abhinavjo** » 13 Sep 2011 00:07

same mechanism exists for runway denial weapons if m not wrong

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 15 Sep 2011 19:38

Hello Gents (and ladies if they are here)

I was wondering about the method used to load/unload tanks from the rail flatbeds. And why is that the tank flatbeds have bumps at each end and the flatbeds for the trucks/jeeps/etc are level?

Thanks in advance

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 15 Sep 2011 20:48

chiru wrote:

gurus which is the pylon to the left, on the wing ? it seems to be having points for multiple weapons ???

is it for the FAB-500 ?

You can see ... what it originally holds here:

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Sep 2011 09:41

^^
That according to Phil Camp/Simon Watson's book - is the MBD3-U bomb ejector rack.

siddharth · Post by **siddharth** » 16 Sep 2011 15:09

indranilroy wrote:
chiru wrote:

gurus which is the pylon to the left, on the wing ? it seems to be having points for multiple weapons ???

is it for the FAB-500 ?
You can see ... what it originally holds here:

Is that the Brahmos under it's belly?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Sep 2011 15:17

siddharth wrote: Is that the Brahmos under it's belly?

Good catch birather! Oh to have a young person's eyes again! At the very least that's a Yakhont!

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 16 Sep 2011 16:25

^^^ No, it was a dummy shown on the first day of AI-11 on the Su-30 on static display ... It was removed thereafter.

siddharth · Post by **siddharth** » 17 Sep 2011 19:21

Thanks Roy and Thank you Shiv

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 18 Sep 2011 11:46

Didn't think of an appropriate thread for this. So posting here.

Anyway, this is a gem titled "Flying Eyesore". Really made me laugh wondering about the reaction of a poor IAF pilot facing a PAF F-16 painted like this.

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2 ... 3baxrj.jpg

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2011 23:28

NAl's course onEngineering of Flight Vehicles

Gives good idea of level of math involved and intricacies.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 24 Sep 2011 07:32

Hi, I want to know what exactly that big black pod thing on her belly is? Sonar or some Submarine detection radar?

Also, how many people would normally man a CG Do228? Pilot, Navigator & 2~3 El Int Team?

I went through this page > http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Avia ... o-228.html and it says, "Four personnel work in the rear - a Mission Commander, Observer Station Operator for the AMOSP system and two radar system operators."

So that pod is a SAR then ?

Wiki shows CG as having 24 228s, do they really have that many?

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 24 Sep 2011 09:14

Aiyooo that's easy bliss to read

. Avionics: The Do-228s are fitted with a MEL Super Marec search radar, which is used for maritime surveillance. A Micronair pollution prevention system is used for pollution detection and control. The system provides the means to spray a dispersal agent over the designated surface. VHF communication, a transponder, audio selector & intercom systems are fitted. The IFR instrumentation has dual gyro horizons, dual HSIs, ADIs, VSIs and dual altimeters. Additional options include a Spectrolab SX-16P searchlight, Primus 500 color weather radar, GEC
Macroni's Electro Optics Multi-Sensor Turret System, Sextant's Totem-3000 internal navigation/global positioning system, the IFF 400AM system and an annotating camera.

One aircraft, IN 231, has been re-fitted with the Israeli Elta EL/M-2022A (V3) airborne maritime surveillance radar and the Indian Navy has placed a contract for the radar system to be fitted to the other Dornier aircraft. Alan Warnes {Air Forces Monthly fame} reports that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) and Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) have integrated IN 231 into a full day and night imagery gathering concept with a down link to the ground station's intelligence system. The system comprises an Airborne Multi-Mission Optronic Stabilised Payload (AMOSP) on the fuselage in the forward starboard side fairing of the main landing gear. It houses three optical apertures - the larger one is a low light Charge Coupled Device (CCD) camera, a second one is an IR camera and the third is for possible fitment of a Laser Range Finder.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Avia ... o-228.html

Aaryan · Post by **Aaryan** » 24 Sep 2011 11:33

Gurus, Are there any permanent infantry regiments which are marked for attacking role and defensive roles?? I mean.. How do they decide which infantry regiment will be deployed with strike corps and which will play the role of holding ones???

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Sep 2011 15:07

^^^There is no such concept. All regiments have an equal standing.

Units are rotated between field and peace locations and depending upon the past posting profile of the unit (plains/mountains/desert plus different sector exposure like east/west/north), the location is alloted.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Sep 2011 15:12

Rohitmullah,
Do the various brigades/indep brigade in a division/corps rotate to other divisions or are they static???

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Sep 2011 17:01

^^^Static. They may be moved in case of war when a senior commander may detach forces from one sector/formation to re-inforce another sector. Otherwise, these stay put in their location. Peace time shifting of formations from location x to y is a rare phenomenon - like 8 Mountain Division shifting to Valley from NE in early 90s for CI Ops. The same formation then shifted to Kargil for the war and is now based out of the sector. So, it went from 3 Corps -> 15 Corps - > 14 Corps.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 24 Sep 2011 17:16

Thanks for clarifying my doubt. This would mean the battalions can keep moving between any of the brigades, right???

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Sep 2011 19:47

^^^Correct.

Aaryan · Post by **Aaryan** » 24 Sep 2011 20:55

One more question sir.. Do we have regiments specialy trained for mountain, desert warfare?? I mean like gurkha's sikh or rajputs.. How do they decide which regiment is good for moutians and which one suits desert more??

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Sep 2011 11:42

^^^Nope. No such distinction.

Exception to the rule is Ladakh Scouts - the regiment draws its men from Ladakh region and by virtue of their upbringing in these mountainous environments, they are physically and psycologically better suited at mountain warfare. These men excel at mountain warfare and serve as crack troops of sort - their abilities enhanced by rigorous advanced mountain warfare training.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Sep 2011 11:49

andy B wrote:Aiyooo that's easy bliss to read
. Avionics: The Do-228s are fitted with aradar, which is MEL Super Marec search Radar used for maritime surveillance. A Micronair pollution prevention system is used for pollution detection and control. The system provides the means to spray a dispersal agent over the designated surface. VHF communication, a transponder, audio selector & intercom systems are fitted. The IFR instrumentation has dual gyro horizons, dual HSIs, ADIs, VSIs and dual altimeters. Additional options include a Spectrolab SX-16P searchlight, Primus 500 color weather radar, GEC
Macroni's Electro Optics Multi-Sensor Turret System, Sextant's Totem-3000 internal navigation/global positioning system, the IFF 400AM system and an annotating camera.

One aircraft, IN 231, has been re-fitted with the Israeli Elta EL/M-2022A (V3) airborne maritime surveillance radar and the Indian Navy has placed a contract for the radar system to be fitted to the other Dornier aircraft. Alan Warnes {Air Forces Monthly fame} reports that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) and Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) have integrated IN 231 into a full day and night imagery gathering concept with a down link to the ground station's intelligence system. The system comprises an Airborne Multi-Mission Optronic Stabilised Payload (AMOSP) on the fuselage in the forward starboard side fairing of the main landing gear. It houses three optical apertures - the larger one is a low light Charge Coupled Device (CCD) camera, a second one is an IR camera and the third is for possible fitment of a Laser Range Finder.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Avia ... o-228.html

All MEL Super Marec search Radars have long been phased out.

Aaryan · Post by **Aaryan** » 25 Sep 2011 21:53

Rohit sir.. thank you very much..

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 27 Sep 2011 12:16

andy B wrote:Aiyooo that's easy bliss to read
. Avionics: The Do-228s are fitted with a MEL Super Marec search radar, which is used for maritime surveillance. A Micronair pollution prevention system is used for pollution detection and control. The system provides the means to spray a dispersal agent over the designated surface. VHF communication, a transponder, audio selector & intercom systems are fitted. The IFR instrumentation has dual gyro horizons, dual HSIs, ADIs, VSIs and dual altimeters. Additional options include a Spectrolab SX-16P searchlight, Primus 500 color weather radar, GEC
Macroni's Electro Optics Multi-Sensor Turret System, Sextant's Totem-3000 internal navigation/global positioning system, the IFF 400AM system and an annotating camera.

One aircraft, IN 231, has been re-fitted with the Israeli Elta EL/M-2022A (V3) airborne maritime surveillance radar and the Indian Navy has placed a contract for the radar system to be fitted to the other Dornier aircraft. Alan Warnes {Air Forces Monthly fame} reports that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) and Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) have integrated IN 231 into a full day and night imagery gathering concept with a down link to the ground station's intelligence system. The system comprises an Airborne Multi-Mission Optronic Stabilised Payload (AMOSP) on the fuselage in the forward starboard side fairing of the main landing gear. It houses three optical apertures - the larger one is a low light Charge Coupled Device (CCD) camera, a second one is an IR camera and the third is for possible fitment of a Laser Range Finder.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Avia ... o-228.html

Just wondering. We have had many discussions on the need for more LRMP (which the P8s will do) and potentially the search for a medium range aircraft. We also discussed how the numbers purchased are small for the country with the coastline of India.

Wouldnt these 24 Dorniers play a big role in Maritime patrol? Should we not count this CG strength when considering our maritime patrol assets.

With these put together with the P8s, ILs and remaining TUs, we will have a formidable MP asset base?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 27 Sep 2011 14:09

As far as my understanding goes, the dornier 228's are used to patrol areas just off the coastline of india. These cannot go out to beyond hundred and fifty kilometers of the coast line, where as the LRMP's go out as far as 600 kms out to sea, conduct a patrol and come back.

gurus please correct me if i am wrong.