Pune Bomb Blast - 13 Feb 2010

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 13 Feb 2010 23:02

Just sounding out - There was a news item few weeks ago about Pakistani nationals who completed serving Indian prison sentence on explosive charges and they escaped while being escorted (assuming deportation).

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 13 Feb 2010 23:26

durgesh wrote:The only good thing about these new terror attacks by ISI is , now they are targetting foreigners. In some way, it will definitely affect the tourism and Indian image as a safe tourist destination or a business hub , hence forcing GoI to respond . I just hope , they don't respond by giving up Kashmir. Even impotence and inaction have a limit. Let us see when GoI reaches the limit. Expect the media to go full throttle to divert the attention.

Already happening in twitter ! S Varadarajan saying that this is aimed at breaking talks down and we must not budge and continue to talk!
Vishnu Som being heckled!

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 13 Feb 2010 23:31

Neela wrote:
durgesh wrote:The only good thing about these new terror attacks by ISI is , now they are targetting foreigners. In some way, it will definitely affect the tourism and Indian image as a safe tourist destination or a business hub , hence forcing GoI to respond . I just hope , they don't respond by giving up Kashmir. Even impotence and inaction have a limit. Let us see when GoI reaches the limit. Expect the media to go full throttle to divert the attention.

Already happening in twitter ! S Varadarajan saying that this is aimed at breaking talks down and we must not budge and continue to talk!
Vishnu Som being heckled!

One of the anchors on NDTV even tried to introduce the Shiv Sena angle by suggesting had police not been required to provide security to dozens of cinemas then they would have been available elsewhere.

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 13 Feb 2010 23:35

sunnyP wrote: One of the anchors on NDTV even tried to introduce the Shiv Sena angle by suggesting had police not been required to provide security to dozens of cinemas then they would have been available elsewhere.

Hardly surprised. I can say
If SRK had not made statements, then Shiv Sena would not have created the cinema ruckus, we could have prevented Pune blast...

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 13 Feb 2010 23:48

sunnyP wrote:One of the anchors on NDTV even tried to introduce the Shiv Sena angle by suggesting had police not been required to provide security to dozens of cinemas then they would have been available elsewhere.

I agree with this, to some extent.. The piglets clinched this window, rather smartly..

Even last time, when police were busy looking for Hindu Taliban, 26/11 happened. SRK and SS are to be blamed equally, IMO. SRK for making those statements, and SS for pulling this issue for too long and making it personal point of honour for the CM. They should have stopped a bit earlier.

Of course, the biggest fool of all is the CM Ashok Chavan, who fell for this stupid Dick-measuring contest with SS and diverted all the police force towards protecting the cinema theatres. He should have seen through this stupid contest and stepped back...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Feb 2010 23:50

harbans wrote:It will be usual "terrorists" are trying to thwart India TSP love making.

Yes and this weakens the India position so much. It legitimizes terror done by Pukes, and at the same time elevates them to the notion they are trying their best to do peace with India, while non state actors are so angry with India not giving away Kashmir blah blah and we are sorry these things are happening. What can we do? Please tell India to hand Kashmir, water, leave Afghanistan, stop interfering in Baluchistan. Till then we are finding it very hard to control these non state guys. Look we are fighting terror everyday.

Only an idiot now cannot see that this is a dead end for India.
Only an Idiot can conclude after this that a Stable, peaceful Pakistan is in India's interests.

India must not attack Pakistan after these incidents. India must start attacking the idea of a stable and peaceful Pakistan. Start by innocently asking that question.." IS it possible for a Stable, Peaceful Pakistan to exist in peace with it's neighbors?" Think a little in context..it's not.

The immediate need would be to thwart TSP from this kind of PR bonanza. And this is where US is key (A_Gupta are you listening?). If US can stop this crap about terrorists from mars are trying to thwart love making between MMS and TSP, half the benefit TSP derives from this diabolical stratgey would go down the tubes.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Feb 2010 23:56

As expected they are hitting only where there are elite/rich Indians or foreigners.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Feb 2010 23:57

Any self-confident, self-respecting people woiuld not be watching crap like MNK in the first place. That would have been the best response. You can see the familiar western narrative now; MNK is popular in both India and TSP, but terrorists and SS are trying to thwart this camaradarie even as MMS and Kiyani, are both "good boys" in western eyes. Bloody thoo.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 14 Feb 2010 00:02

Neela wrote:
durgesh wrote:The only good thing about these new terror attacks by ISI is , now they are targetting foreigners. In some way, it will definitely affect the tourism and Indian image as a safe tourist destination or a business hub , hence forcing GoI to respond . I just hope , they don't respond by giving up Kashmir. Even impotence and inaction have a limit. Let us see when GoI reaches the limit. Expect the media to go full throttle to divert the attention.

Already happening in twitter ! S Varadarajan saying that this is aimed at breaking talks down and we must not budge and continue to talk!
Vishnu Som being heckled!

Could some one please out that SV clown on twitter stating that US Citizen shouldn't comment on what we should and shouldn't do...

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 14 Feb 2010 00:05

skaranam wrote:If India acts based on this blast ex. Withdrawal of talks or moving of troops..it will help Pakistan to say its eastern border is threatened and rush troops from Afghan border. This will help taliban find safe cross over into Pakistan. {not our problem}

Please recall, Pakistan was trying its best to get out of talks. The verbal diarrhea of Mr. Qureshi, Ministerial meeting to discuss on talks, noises about Kashmir, hyping of IWT issues

If US do not have Indian interest at heart why the heck should paki talk’s withdrawal bother us. I say put the nava cold start doctrine to test, take back POK so that Omar’s boys can stay where they are. It will also make the Chinese chuha think twice before any misadventures in the east.

sivabala · Post by **sivabala** » 14 Feb 2010 00:05

Chiron wrote:BLAST IN KOREGAON PARK, PUNE... 5 DEAD.... 50 INJURED.. MOST OF THE INJURED ARE FOREIGNERS...

Though nice response to our peace offense, it's sad those foreigners had to lose their lives.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 14 Feb 2010 00:06

skaranam wrote:
Altair wrote:Does Operation Moshtarak has anything to do with this?
If India acts based on this blast ex. Withdrawal of talks or moving of troops..it will help Pakistan to say its eastern border is threatened and rush troops from Afghan border. This will help taliban find safe cross over into Pakistan.

Please recall, Pakistan was trying its best to get out of talks. The verbal diarrhea of Mr. Qureshi, Ministerial meeting to discuss on talks, noises about Kashmir, hyping of IWT issues

How does it matter to India's security if Pakis go to western border or not.... could we stop caring for the US boots....

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 14 Feb 2010 00:09

BajKhedawal wrote:
skaranam wrote:If India acts based on this blast ex. Withdrawal of talks or moving of troops..it will help Pakistan to say its eastern border is threatened and rush troops from Afghan border. This will help taliban find safe cross over into Pakistan. {not our problem}

Please recall, Pakistan was trying its best to get out of talks. The verbal diarrhea of Mr. Qureshi, Ministerial meeting to discuss on talks, noises about Kashmir, hyping of IWT issues
If US do not have Indian interest at heart why the heck should paki talk’s withdrawal bother us. I say put the nava cold start doctrine to test, take back POK so that Omar’s boys can stay where they are. It will also make the Chinese chuha think twice before any misadventures in the east.

How about FICCI (or any newly created organization for this specific purpose) announce 1 crore for every Paki Brigadier killed....
or how about GoI declaring a terrorist state for starter

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 14 Feb 2010 00:11

A couple of air strikes on terror camps in PoK would be a good start to a fitting reply. We shouldn't forget that all of the so called "local terror cells" were/are actually trained in and funded by Pakistan.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 14 Feb 2010 00:16

External Affairs minister has spoken:-

Pune blasts still need2b investigated.But we must stand up &say we will not be terrorized. Not a time for blame game.Stay united &determined about 1 hour ago from web

http://twitter.com/ShashiTharoor

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 14 Feb 2010 00:18

Military intelligence on site to probe too. Assortment of agencies investigating. MI worried because of all the mili establishments in the area

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 14 Feb 2010 00:20

shyamd wrote:Military intelligence on site to probe too. Assortment of agencies investigating. MI worried because of all the mili establishments in the area

MI Corps also based in Pune right?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Feb 2010 00:24

They've already broken unity by unilaterally going for talks. Another hardly discussed result of this 'Aman ka tamasha' crap is this: Softening up of significant sections of elite and influential opinion. In case of a war scenario, this is one set having been fed with this 'piss' crap will howl " oh food prices are going up' , 'male love not war'. This country public opinion must not be fed crap and untruth. It's the GOI's duty to tell the truth about Pak. There is no peace constituency in Pak.

And i don't agree with BRFites calling for strikes on terror camps in Pak coz of these incidents. I call for starting questioning the very principle behind GOI's doctrine that a 'Peaceful and Stable Pakistan is in India's interest'. It's an Oxy moron and needs to get more mainstream media attention so that Ramu Shyamu's in this country understand the truth.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Feb 2010 00:25

sunnyP wrote:External Affairs minister has spoken:-

Pune blasts still need2b investigated.But we must stand up &say we will not be terrorized. Not a time for blame game.Stay united &determined about 1 hour ago from web
http://twitter.com/ShashiTharoor

The ISI/TSPA/LeT bosses are watching MNK and laughing their asses off as they listen to this, while Honcho Holbrooke will give Tharoor and his TSP counterpart a pat on their backs; and Stanly boy's "heroics" will continue on schedule.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Feb 2010 00:29

harbans:

I completely agree with you. No need to go to war. But a hard Indian posture doirectly pinning the blame for tension on TSPISI, an d beg, convince, persuade the west of the same will go a long way. IPL auction has shown that even benign moves by India hurt TSP's etch&dee. What is reuqired is honest: both from India and the west. This TSP charade must be exposed. India can do it if only the elite b$%^&*ds can wake up.

chandrabhan · Post by **chandrabhan** » 14 Feb 2010 00:38

derkonig wrote:MMS sleeps peacefully tonite.....

I realised my earlier post has been deleted without any warning. I simply spoke on the GOI future brave Dossier diplomacy. We must pat Ashok khan for the successful release of the movie. He made the entire police force guard the Theatres because the movies is of his boss's crony.

As Shri Antony has mentioned, Suspending talks is not an option due to terrorist activities, We continue to spend money on 'Aman ka tamasha' and making xeroxes of past dossiers with date change. Actors will remain the same

Mods, I have not questioned the bravery of MMS. he is a brave leader because the none of his family member died. In case someone from his family will die he will forget about the bravery of talk show with TSP

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Feb 2010 00:43

^Crams ji precisely. Hit where it hurts most without the risk of hurthing oneself. The IPL saga showed it. The same applies to China, if they talk ArP, we should tell them as softly, that India would be forced to consider Tibet as disputed territory. As long as we appeasingly approve of their hold in Tibet, they grow bolder. Same with the Pukes. Any strikes on terror camps, apart from a risk to ourselves and the fact they will be relocated, do not mitigate the Pakistani states resolve to conduct terror directly or through non state actors at there command of through now increasingly Indian groups for further plausible deniability. This crap cannot go on. India will have no answers and it will end up in endless frustrating sessions.

The Paki state not only has noi capability to fight and stem terror, it will continue to vitiate the atmosphere in the neighbourhodd and beyond. A regime change will not work and has not worked. There will never be a time when the PA will be commanded by a civilian setup. Even the US attempted to put ISI under civilian control and failed. So there it is a state that cannot and will not prevent terror. Time has come to question the state and work to dismantle it.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Feb 2010 00:49

Mods, I have not questioned the bravery of MMS. he is a brave leader because the none of his family member died. In case someone from his family will die he will forget about the bravery of talk show with TSP

Chandrabhan ji, you're not realizing one thing. Even if you were in MMS's shoes you'd behave like this. ABV behaved even worse and more dhimmi. LKA and JS too. You're missing something very big. By all the actions you want to take (punitive, violent ones say) as compared to MMS's peaceful ones..they are basically 2 sides of the same coin that buys TSP legitimacy. By doing both (your version and MMSs one) you recognize and acknowledge that something can be done to improve TSP.

There is another track: Recognizing that nothing can be done under the circumstances for TSP. That it has to be broken up into smaller manageable entities. The idea of Pakistan itself was crap to start with and now the idea of a a peaceful stable at peace Pakistan must be given the burial it deserves. Please try and understand this. Your frustratiion will also come dow..

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Feb 2010 00:54

shyamd wrote:Military intelligence on site to probe too. Assortment of agencies investigating. MI worried because of all the mili establishments in the area

Is there a link? I think they should not reveal that MI is part of investigation. It just exposes our orgs.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 14 Feb 2010 01:01

Muppalla wrote: Is there a link? I think they should not reveal that MI is part of investigation. It just exposes our orgs.

Basically there were alerts sent to MI establshments in Pune. So, they are naturally interested. It doesnt expose anything, its good that they are involved. What makes you say that it exposes our orgs?

Interesting that IB, NSG, CBI - Forensic team, State Intel, CID, Special branch, MI, local police, sooo many organisations involved, Delhi police sending a team too and are questioning an arrested terrorist Shehzad.

-------
If its any consolation, the media is playing this incident up seriously. Eyewitnesses say, that there were more locals than foreigners on saturday, one canadian lady said most of the people there at the time were locals.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Feb 2010 01:12

shyamd wrote:
Muppalla wrote: Is there a link? I think they should not reveal that MI is part of investigation. It just exposes our orgs.
Basically there were alerts sent to MI establshments in Pune. So, they are naturally interested. It doesnt expose anything, its good that they are involved. What makes you say that it exposes our orgs?

Interesting that IB, NSG, CBI - Forensic team, State Intel, CID, Special branch, MI, local police, sooo many organisations involved, Delhi police sending a team too and are questioning an arrested terrorist Shehzad.

-------
If its any consolation, the media is playing this incident up seriously. Eyewitnesses say, that there were more locals than foreigners on saturday, one canadian lady said most of the people there at the time were locals.

CID, CBI etc. are all civilian and they are all expected to be involved. In my opinion, milatary related orgs (even if they are involved) should not come into news print/media. They will become future targets. I just expect/hope that government brings them covertly if needed.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 14 Feb 2010 01:19

Rishi wrote:
shyamd wrote:Military intelligence on site to probe too. Assortment of agencies investigating. MI worried because of all the mili establishments in the area
MI Corps also based in Pune right?

Right.Training School is in Pune. AFAIK, there no major IA establishments anywhere close to the place.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 14 Feb 2010 01:25

^^ News reports were saying NDA, Southern Command and other establishments.

Muppalla, still don't understand your point. If terrorists had a chance, they would attack the army, but hitting foreigners, jews, economic interests etc seem to be a better headline and better value to them.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 14 Feb 2010 01:30

We have had 20 years to think about options other than war ,despite diabolical actions from Pak. 20 years!!
War is not an option now because we DENIED ourselves that option. It was not the other way round!

Cant we not see in shades of grey instead of war and talks! Has Pakistan seen the Indian stick, whatever its size?

This is school bullying stuff! The big boys get dirty and get to call the shots in the playground!

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Feb 2010 01:53

Not right to say entire Pune was targeted:Sharad Pawar

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Feb 2010 02:03

Expressing confidence that people of Pune will face the incident with a brave face, Pawar said "when I was chief minister, Mumbai saw 11 simultaneous blasts but everything returned to normal soon."

What does this moron mean when he says 'not the entire city was targetted and the blast was in an isolated area'? Do these people really underestimate our intelligence so much? Next he will say, look it was not a nuclear blast, so it's ok. If it was in an isolated area, then how come 8 people died and 35 got injured. No wonder in his tenure so many blasts took place. Moron.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 14 Feb 2010 02:06

Pawar said "when I was chief minister, Mumbai saw 11 simultaneous blasts but everything returned to normal soon."

Yes Mahanubhava, that's a badge of honor that one can be proud of and flaunt it. That's phenomenal story of a true survivor inspite of those 11 simulatenous blasts it is difficult to come out unscathed and tell the story. Such achievements are hard to come by these days.
GOI is in difficult position to release the true cause of these attacks, because if it releases it is packis, then it will have to act per its own statements during Mumbai.
What is of interest is to see if Panda signalled the attack dogs to let loose, after agni.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 14 Feb 2010 02:09

AMAN KI ASHA

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 14 Feb 2010 02:13

harbans wrote:Even if you were in MMS's shoes you'd behave like this. ABV behaved even worse and more dhimmi. LKA and JS too

Enough of your nonsense. I challenge you to substantiate this statement, or retract your words.

Mods, I realize this is off topic but the equal-equal here is utterly nauseating.

I dare you to explain by what yardstick anything ABV, LKA and JS did can be compared to what we are going through now. Even the last filthy rock that MMS was able to conceal his dhimmitude under... "we didn't have any more attacks after 26/11"... has been blown clear away today.

ABV's government conducted Pokhran II and took responsibility for handling the consequences. Can you for one second IMAGINE MMS standing up to the Western world to assert India's nuclear power status? I certainly cannot. For that matter, PVNR could have tested India's nukes but chose not to, no doubt because of pressure from certain quarters of his cabinet ever willing to sacrifice security for GDP.

ABV's government fought and won the Kargil war. Yes, there were "intelligence failures" that led to the successful Pakistani infiltration in Kargil and Drass sectors in the first place, but those had as much to do with the dumbing down of our intel by the Gujral Doctrine as any fault of the ABV government (which had only taken charge the previous year). Nonetheless, the Pakis were ousted from our territory decisively and humiliatingly.

ABV's government mobilized the exercise in brinkmanship known as Operation Parakram. Those who don't understand what "brinkmanship" is, continue to moan that we "lost" Parakram (even though it wasn't a war to "lose"). Some brilliant jingoes insist that we should "never have mobilized if we were not going to fight"... no doubt, they were very sad to have missed out on some kick-a$$ TV coverage of real war from the safety of their living rooms.

From Julius Caesar's massing forces along the Rubicon to Kennedy's response to the Cuban Missile buildup, brinkmanship without precipitating actual conflict has achieved diplomatic and political goals that a war might not have.

Operation Parakram was a game-changer, the single largest success in curbing Pakistani terrorism aside from actual COIN ops by internal security agencies. The figures speak for themselves.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... alties.htm

The trends of violence show a steady increase from 1989 to 2001. They then demonstrate clear, steady decline from 2002 onwards, a trend unprecedented since the beginning of Kashmir jihad in 1990. The obvious conclusion is that events of 2002 constituted the most substantial material change in the Pakistanis' ability to export terrorism to India, over this entire period.

If there was any more significant event than Parakram in 2002, I am still to hear about it. Parakram accomplished two things.

1) It provided security cover for the first successful Kashmir election since 1989 (the only intervening LS election in J&K, 1996, was a damp squib with such minimal turnout that security forces had to coerce villagers to show up at the polls). By allowing the successful conduct of J&K elections with over 60% turnout, Parakram re-instated a degree of confidence in the Indian political process among the fence-sitting majority of Kashmir. It also brought back into the political mainstream many aspirants who were otherwise stuck in a political wasteland, where there was no chance to exercise democratic franchise on one hand, and no chance to assert themselves in a valley politically dominated by foreign jihadis on the other hand.

2) It MADE the West force Pakistan to cut down infiltration into J&K.

Now many of us are so quick to dismiss the role of Parakram in any of this. We would rather buy into Pakistani propaganda that India "lost face" when it pulled out of the Parakram deployment. And we would rather credit UNKIL, of all people, with pressuring Musharraf and his successors to cut down the infiltration of J&K terrorists. Out of the goodness of UNKIL's heart no doubt!!

I can't believe some of the things I've read on BRF with regard to this. When did UNKIL ever have any damn interest in doing anything *but* shielding Pakistan from India's accusations and evidence of terrorism?

From "misplacing" the evidence of Pakistani involvement provided to the FBI for the 1993 Mumbai blasts, up to Bill Clinton's propagating the lie that the Chittisinghpora massacre of 1999 was conducted by "Hindooo militants and Indian security forces"... when, EVER, has UNKIL shown any desire to pressure Pakistan on conducting anti-India terrorism?

Unkil has never had that intention. In fact, Unkil has historically done his best to conceal and under-handedly support Pakistani terrorism against India because it suits Unkil very well.

It is a perfect situation for Unkil to be able to manipulate Jihadis to achieve his political ends, via his willing proxies in the TSPA/ISI... and, whenever there was any sign of the system overheating, to use anti-India/Kashmir jihad as a diversionary safety valve so that Unkil and TSPA/ISI did not get burned themselves.

After 9/11, Musharraf tried hard to convince Unkil that this policy should continue. There were endless Op-Eds by Milt Bearden, Brian Cloughley, Eric Margolis etc. declaring that India should be compelled to maintain restraint in the face of increased jihadi terrorism, because otherwise Musharraf could not cooperate with the US in Afghanistan without turning Paki jihadis against the Pakistan government. India was being held up as the safety-valve once again, and both the US State Dept. and TSPA/ISI agreed that this was a swell idea.

What Parakram did was to establish once and for all, in no uncertain terms, we were not going to be the safety valve anymore: and that if terrorism against India by TSPA/ISI continued at the rate it had been going, there was no question we would strike back militarily and f*ck up the nice little party that Unkil and the Pakis were planning in Afghanistan.

As I said, the numbers speak for themselves. The message went across. Unkil made Musharraf promise on television to end J&K terrorism. Infiltration in J&K reduced every year (and is only picking up again now, under the brave and patriotic MMS government).

Even terrorism in other parts of India declined following Parakram. In 2002, I can recall no major incidents outside J&K other than the American center shooting at Kolkata and the attack at Akshardham temple. In 2003 I can only remember the twin blasts in south Mumbai.

Interestingly, Pakistani terrorism outside J&K came back with a bang when the GOI responsible for Parakram was no longer in power. 2005 brought with it Ayodhya, Jaunpur, Delhi Diwali blasts and the IISc Bangalore attack.

Parakram might not have been a perfect solution, but it has certainly worked better than *anything* that ABV's or any other government came up with. Certainly better than the Besharam-Al-Sheikh, dossier-waving and "Aman ki Asha" of the present regime.

Of course, there is the response to the IC-814 hijacking that everyone loves to blame on ABV and Jaswant Singh. There we saw a government buckle under intense domestic pressure from public opinion. Goaded by the leftist TV channels, the relatives of the hostages were making a media spectacle of themselves. Finally the government caved in. I don't know if it was a good solution or not, but it is certainly no yardstick to measure the "dhimmitude" of the ABV regime as opposed to the present regime.

The MMS regime has never had to deal with a terrorist hijacking, and relatives of the hostages mounting a media circus (with full cooperation of a hostile broadcast media) 24/7. Whatever they have had to deal with, we have seen how they dealt with. Afzal Guru remains alive. Madhani remains alive and in fact a celebrity. Congress MPs attack Mohan Sharma, martyred at the Batla house, as some sort of Hindoo fundamentalist involved in a conspiracy to target innocent Muslims.

The MMS regime may not have done these things in response to public pressure, but it sure does some questionable things in response to MMS' "lack of sleep". Is that supposed to be better?

All in all, I'm the last person to pretend that ABV and his regime were somehow perfect. They had many faults, and I criticized them ruthlessly for their mistakes on BRF.

But whatever you may say about ABV's government: they were not traitors.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 14 Feb 2010 02:24

@ Rudradev,

It was absolutely correct that CIA has a major hand in training LET and other militant groups in pakistan.
Long time back,a big fuss/clash between lawmakers happened in US on a cause of supporting terrorism. One group says ,its good to keep a tab on India,while other went against it.

What ever Unkil says in public is just a big damn foul cry.

Clinton Administration supported terrorism like hell.Both CIA and ISI trained these outfits on a priority basis.
{I used to save all those articles and videos,but they went kaput when my old HDD went kaput }

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 14 Feb 2010 02:40

CRamS wrote: harbans:
I completely agree with you. No need to go to war. But a hard Indian posture doirectly pinning the blame for tension on TSPISI, an d beg, convince, persuade the west of the same will go a long way. IPL auction has shown that even benign moves by India hurt TSP's etch&dee. What is reuqired is honest: both from India and the west. This TSP charade must be exposed. India can do it if only the elite b$%^&*ds can wake up.

IPL saga was a fluke, which hit Paki's etch&dee. It showed their weakness. As it happened, GoI did not cash on it; instead Chidambaram gave some un-wanted statements on it. Lalit Modi was under a lot of pressure, but still stood his ground. One thing we get from the IPL saga was as long as all Team owners stood on common ground they won.

Honesty from West wrt India is overrated and cannot be expected. GoI should stand strong on its feet and not . For all the refrain we show, the West praises for our patience, but in reality it does not translate into any action in reigning in the Pakis. The whole world knows that Paki's are playing the game. But still US supports its survival for it is after its own needs. It does not care for Indian sensitivities. Check the arms suplies to Pakistan. The US congress itself has noted that majority of weapon system purchased under WOT are India centric and cannot be used against Taliban. But still US sells them, to keep Pakistan in good humor.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Feb 2010 02:41

Guys,

For heaven's sake, can we stop this ABV Vs MMS crap. What ABV did or did not do has no bearing today. Its about India. And MMS needs to show some spine in projecting the state of TSP as a sp;onsor of terror instead of his morons ki tamasha.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Feb 2010 02:45

Enough of your nonsense. I challenge you to substantiate this statement, or retract your words.

Mods, I realize this is off topic but the equal-equal here is utterly nauseating.

What 'nonsense' are you talking about? If you want to point some fallacy, there is something called a civil manner.

Indeed, ABV was the one who got Pariah Gola out of the woods. Even the US was shunning him till he invited him to Agra. MMS at least started talking hard about getting Pakistan getting to trial perpetrators of 26-11. What ABV did was worse, there were no condition even put regarding apprehending the Kandahar hijackers before talks. THey were and still do roam around freely.

Of course, there is the response to the IC-814 hijacking that everyone loves to blame on ABV and Jaswant Singh. There we saw a government buckle under intense domestic pressure from public opinion. Goaded by the leftist TV channels, the relatives of the hostages were making a media spectacle of themselves. Finally the government caved in. I don't know if it was a good solution or not, but it is certainly no yardstick to measure the "dhimmitude" of the ABV regime as opposed to the present regime.

And that's what you say, talking subjectively about yardsticks. I know many who were disgusted with ABV and JS. And they have a right to be disgusted. Moreover what pressure was put on Pakistan for apprehending the culprits of IC 814? Do you remember any as you see for the 26-11 episode? No. Instead they invited the dictator who made them look like fools at Agra. Short memory?

And by what authority do you say one cannot criticize ABV or JS? Or MMS? Calling someone Dhimmi is not an abuse. It's a connotation of a state of mind. Do you want this forum to restrict valid and existing criticism of Politicians and Political parties?

I think the Mods should clarify on this. Take back your unnecessary personal attack on me. It's uncalled for and contrarily you've proved nothing that i said was nonsense.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Feb 2010 02:47

skaranam wrote:

Honesty from West wrt India is overrated and cannot be expected. GoI should stand strong on its feet and not . For all the refrain we show, the West praises for our patience, but in reality it does not translate into any action in reigning in the Pakis. The whole world knows that Paki's are playing the game. But still US supports its survival for it is after its own needs. It does not care for Indian sensitivities. Check the arms suplies to Pakistan. The US congress itself has noted that majority of weapon system purchased under WOT are India centric and cannot be used against Taliban. But still US sells them, to keep Pakistan in good humor.

True, India has no hard leverage on the west. But like TSP, India can project its interests and at least make the west notice. But if India supinely accepts the west's position, all they do is pat our back and off they go to the bank. On the domestic side, if IM/SIMI are involved, as most likely they are with of course the nerve center in Pindi, Indian internal security must kick in instead of this "my name is Khan" sentiment crap. My point is that tone of the debate should change. Stop this delusion that TSP's punches are just pin pricks. They are not, and TSP knows it which is why it keeps punching. But if India makes these punches center piece and calls on the west to stop its hypocrisy, sure India will no longer be an "impending superpower", but at least TSP terror will be center stage. Honestly recognizing the problem in open is the first step.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 14 Feb 2010 02:48

As Robert Gates had said when he was in India, AL Qaeda is trying to provoke a war between India and Pakistan. That will be the American and Pakistani line. More talks will be recommended.

MMS needs to be able to thwart this Pakistani centric policies of US administration. Yesterday B Raman wrote exactly the same thing.