Indian Military Helicopters

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Jun 2015 04:34

prasannasimha wrote:http://www.oneindia.com/india/light-com ... 88850.html

Bengaluru, June 26: Bengaluru, June 26: Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) on Friday said that its home-grown Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) completed hot weather trials. The one-week long trials were held at Jodhpur measuring a series of parameters. HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju told OneIndia that the trials were crucial as the programme is inching towards Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) phase. Interestingly, during the tests, expert pilots from the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army were present. Representatives of certification teams were also present.

^^^^Mr. Shukla on LCH
Indian attack helicopter crosses crucial hurdle

Over the last week the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), designed and built in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), moved a crucial step closer to operational service by successfully completing a set of gruelling trials in the desert areas around Jodhpur.

These were the LCH’s “hot weather flight trials”, designed to check whether it could meet its performance requirements even in blazing temperatures, with oxygen in short supply. HAL pilots proved their helicopter’s ability to meet its performance specifications, handling qualities and loads, even at low speeds when a helicopter engine is gasping for air.

In February, the LCH had successfully completed “cold weather flight trials” in North Pullu in Ladakh. There the LCH was required to start up on internal batteries and get airborne after an overnight “soak” in the minus 20 degrees Celsius cold. Operating from a helipad at 4,600 metres (15,000 feet) above sea level, the LCH test-flew at altitudes of 6,500 metres (21,300 feet).

Next month, the LCH faces “hot and high” trials in Leh, where the relative summer warmth will further reduce the oxygen, already in short supply due to the high altitude.

HAL has custom-designed the LCH for the world’s highest battlefield, Indian Army posts on the Himalayan watershed. With severe limits on the weaponry that soldiers can physically carry at those altitudes, the heavily armed LCH will support infantrymen with its cannons and rockets, while defending itself from enemy aircraft with air-to-air missiles.

In the plains of Rajasthan, Punjab and Jammu, the LCH will be primarily used to destroy enemy tanks with guided missiles at ranges of up to 7 kilometres.

Each of these tasks presents challenges that few helicopters can meet, and that the Indian Army will not compromise upon. Yet, HAL designers appear confident that the LCH will meet every requirement.

Describing last week’s tests in Jodhpur, HAL chairman, T Suvarna Raju said, “Test flights were carried out in the temperature range of 39 to 42 degrees Celsius. These were done with the involvement of customer pilots from the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Army…”

HAL’s confidence stems from the fact that much of the LCH has already proved itself in two earlier helicopters. While the flying platform was proven in the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH), the weapons and sensors were proven in the Rudra, an armed variant of the Dhruv.

The LCH has many commonalities with the Dhruv. Both share the Shakti engine and the same dynamic components --- the main rotor, tail rotor, and gearbox. But the LCH has an advantage over the Dhruv. As one designer explains: “While designing the Dhruv, we were feeling our way, adding on systems one by one. But in the LCH, we knew all those systems would be needed, so we were able to integrate them from the beginning. That makes the LCH a sleeker, faster, more integrated aircraft.”

Even so, the LCH has several new features that made engineering a challenge. First, it is heavily armoured to protect pilots from enemy fire. Next, its fuselage was redesigned to make it “stealthy”, or hard for enemy radar to detect. If it is shot down, a crash-resistant landing gear would help pilots to survive even when the LCH impacts the ground at 10 metres/second. Finally, to be sleeker, the LCH seats its two pilots --- one flying, the other operating weapons --- one behind the other, not side-by-side like in the Dhruv. That required a redesign of the flight controls, hydraulics and fuel system.

On the sub-continental battlefield, the LCH will be pitted against the Zisheng-10 (Z-10) light attack helicopter, developed by China’s Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC). There are reports that Beijing is providing Pakistan with the Z-10, as a replacement for its older Huey Cobra attack helicopters.

HAL already has a commitment for the LCH, with the army wanting 114 helicopters and the air force asking for 65. There could also be orders from the international market, where the LCH will compete against the Z-10 and the Eurocopter Tiger. For that, HAL will have to establish production facilities and after-sales support with greater efficiency than it has done for its otherwise admirable Dhruv helicopter.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 28 Jun 2015 06:09

Re. the Apache/ Chinook deal:

IIRC Boeing extended the old price 'for the last time' till June 30th. Till date, to my knowledge, the Cabinet Committee on Security has not approved the deal. If it does, I think it will then have to be approved by the Defence Acquisition Committee. There are only 2 working days left to do all this.

Methinks the GOI has taken Singhaji's advice

and decided to let the offer expire. Or there is just no money for it. Either way, I don't think this deal is happening.

wig · Post by **wig** » 28 Jun 2015 09:58

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 99564.html
Light Combat Helicopter clears hot weather trials

The Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)–3, a versatile combat chopper developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), has successfully completed the hot weather flight trials in Jodhpur.
The chopper, at present under a testing phase, cleared the test yesterday, paving the way for the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC). It is likely to enter production from 2017-18.
“The week-long test flight schedule of the LCH was carried out in the temperature range of 39 to 42°C,” said an IAF official.
The third technology demonstrator (TD-3) of LCH was ferried from Bengaluru to Jodhpur for the trials. Pilots from the Indian Air Force and the Army, along with the representatives of certification teams, were present during the trial

srin · Post by **srin** » 29 Jun 2015 10:58

shiv wrote:
Abhay_S wrote:Gurus,

how will the Role of LCH and Rudra differ/complement when both are inducted? Wiki says that Rudra was seen a way to develop and deliver a armed helicopter quickly to the IA. will Rudra production stop after LCH arrives?

some Gyan as to how these platforms can be used in our context will be much appreciated.
Highly unlikely that Rudra will stop when LCH production starts. The Rudra can seat troops and carry casualties and will be useful both for SAR (Search and Rescue) as well as assault where troops can be inserted into a battle zone even as the helicopter can help suppress enemy fire.

I was watching some Youtube videos over the weekend and I remembered this post.
The Rudra's cabin seems to be filled with equipment - and doesn't seem to have space for more than a couple of soldiers standing.

Nowhere near Mi-24 equivalent role. Looks like stop-gap arrangement till LCH is productionized.

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » 30 Jun 2015 06:50

The LCH is equipped with a French Nexter M621 cannon. Given that the specs of the Russian GSh-23 are roughly comparable, it has over four times the rate of fire and is made in India at OFB Trichy, why did HAL choose to source an imported gun for the LCH? About the only significant difference I can see is that the M621 is over 7 feet long to the Gasha's 4 feet. Not sure if that matters, considering that a number of high performance fighter aircraft mount it, as also some pretty badass helicopter gunships, namely the Mi-24VP and Mi-24VM.

The specs (from Wikipedia):

Nexter M621
Weight 45.5 kg (100.31 lb)
Length 2,207 mm (86.9 in) (7 ft 2.9")
Width 202 mm (8.0 in) (in mount)
Height 245 mm (9.6 in) (in mount)
Cartridge 20x102mm
Caliber 20mm
Action Blowback operated
Rate of fire 800 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity 1,005 m/s

OFB Trichy GSh-23
Weight GSh-23: 49.2 kg (108 lb) [4 kg. over the M621 weight]
GSh-23L: 50 kg (110 lb)
Length GSh-23: 1,387 mm (4 ft 7 in)
GSh-23L: 1,537 mm (5 ft 1 in)
Barrel length 1,000 mm (3 ft 3 in)
Cartridge 23x115 mm AM-23
Barrels 2
Action Gast principle
Rate of fire 3,400-3,600 rounds/min[citation needed]
Muzzle velocity 715 m/s (2,350 ft/s)

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 30 Jun 2015 07:13

^I think it has to do with the fact that the nexeter cannon is in a turret for helicopter use (the other one is just a fixed gun), has lower rate of fire (saves ammo) and probably has more longer range accuracy (increased muzzle velocity).

Besides why waste time building a turret and mount for the GSh-23 when you can license build the nexeter one. It certainly saves time.

Also, I have not heard of anyone using an aircraft autocannon much less a gast gun for helicopters chin turrets (willing to be corrected)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Jun 2015 08:22

Nexter is an extremely accurate gun that can turn/elevate/depress and point for off axis shooting while being slaved to the HMS. (Helmet Mounted Sight)

The GSh 23 is a dumb block that requires the entire aircraft to be pointed at the target. The GSh was also designed to be discarded after about 5000 shells were fired (as told to me by OFB official I asked at Aero India where GSh23 was on display)

Despite the "small difference" in caliber, the GSh 23 mm shells are much bigger and heavier and rate of fire is suited for moving dogfights where the bead is on the target for just half second or so.

I think the Nexter also has a longer effective range.

I think the Nexter 20 mm shell (projectile only) weighs in at about 102 gm while the 23 mm projectile for GSh weighs 174 g. (via Googal)

raj-senthil · Post by **raj-senthil** » 03 Jul 2015 14:50

Airbus to build military choppers in India with Mahindra

Europe's Airbus Group(AIR.PA) and India's Mahindra Group have struck a deal to build helicopters jointly as they bid to win an expected wave of orders from the country's armed forces, the companies said in a statement on Friday.

The two groups will form a joint venture in the coming months, aiming to become the first private manufacturer of helicopters in India, the statement said. It did not say how much the two will invest.

India is in the midst of a huge upgrade of its armed forces - analysts forecast it will spend $250 billion over the next decade - and Prime Minister Narendra Modi wants to encourage more indigenous manufacturing to end India's position as the world's largest arms importer.

Airbus Helicopters, part of Airbus Group, is joining forces with Mahindra after talking to several Indian companies that are investing hundreds of millions of dollars to capitalise on the government's push to build arms at home.

Other companies in the running for the joint venture included Reliance Industries (RELI.NS) and Tata Group, an Airbus Helicopters executive told Reuters in February.

"Together, we will produce India’s next-generation helicopters that will not only answer our country’s defence needs but will also have the potential for exports in the future," said S. P. Shukla, chairman, Mahindra Defence Systems Ltd.

The joint venture will seek to win orders for reconnaissance and surveillance, naval utility and naval multirole helicopters, Airbus said.

Under current rules, foreign ownership in joint ventures in India's defence industry is limited to 49 percent.

(Reporting by Tommy Wilkes; Editing by Muralikumar Anantharaman)

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Jul 2015 15:08

HAL is getting outmaneuvered at every turn.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2015 15:16

there are boxes inside the Rudra cabin used to feed the cannon turret I think.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2015 15:23

interesting video showing how the apache 30mm cannon is reloaded. he says its a finicky manual process at the FARP.
must be the same at our LCH also. apache cheeks have a box to carry loose stuff like letters and parcels, seen at start of video
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/loadin ... 1662140266

the belt feed thing did not work, he has to remove the tape and load them one by one.

looks like internals of a xerox laser printer when we clear paper jams by opening panels.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Jul 2015 19:35

Gentlemen,remember the disastrous Iran-Iraq war.Both countries were deceived into warring with each other thanks to Western entities,who liberally supplied Saddam with his WMDs.I have an excellent book on how the West armed Saddam,where a galaxy of western cos. supplied him with whatever he wanted.In fact a recent UK media article also says that he did have WMDs at one time...supplied by the UK!

India must not be duped into warring with China,at the behest of the West/US.We have to be exceptionally careful into not being drawn into an anti-Chinese mil axis. Nevertheless,we also cannot keep our powder "wet"! We have to shore up our own defences,dramatically increase our strike capability,where China will realize that it would be futile to engage India in a conflict because it will never obtain its objectives and njever defat us both conventionally or using WMDs.

Since this is the helo td.,attack helos will play a vital role in land warfare,esp. knocking out enemy armour and arty. Cost wise there are limits as to how many firang attack helos we can acquire.LCH production should be increased and there is no harm in getting pvt. industry to also make them.If Mahindras/Tatas/whoever can team up with firang firms,there is no reason why they cannot team up with HAL. The IA requires at least 250 LCHs to take care of both the Chinese and Pakis.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jul 2015 20:12

Singha wrote:there are boxes inside the Rudra cabin used to feed the cannon turret I think.

The chin gun cannot be fed from the cabin

Click on thumbnail for close up

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jul 2015 06:08

I was imagining there is a feeding system under the floor that leads to the gun. in the pic its not clear where in the small nose you can accomodate some 200-300 rounds. there is no clear boxy housing or feeding system for the same. the Mi28 has a boxy thing near the external gun. the apache has it on the right cheek as seen. its left cheek is likely a avionics bay.

had seen a pic once of the rudra cabin that showed ammo boxes in a stack on the floor, with what looked like a feeding system to uptake the rounds.

srin · Post by **srin** » 04 Jul 2015 08:51

You mean this

Yup there doesn't seem to be much space in the cabin for anything. I don't know what those boxes are.

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 04 Jul 2015 09:55

Boxes are for Gun/ammunition's

I see that there is a seat in middle & two seats in the back (behind the seat in middle)

if similar configuration exist in the other side which is not visible then Rudra may carry 6-7 commandos with it.(seated configuration)

Also it may carry 2-3 without ticket commandos(without seats in tight configuration)

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jul 2015 13:15

The LCA looks like becoming a global "best seller" when inducted.Even if it falls short in some limited qty. of eprfromance specs,it will still be a superb bird. The US is apparently giving Pak more attack helos to fight the ...Taliban

No guesses as to where they will be used! From the horses'
mouth.I don't hear any squeaks of protest from the pro-US lobby. If the GOI could talk to the Russians protesting a planned sale of attack helos to Pak,why hasn't it done the same to the US which provides Pak with its key cutting edge weaponry to be used against India? The US is selling attack helos to both India and Pak and is laughing all the way to the bank.

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/ ... aqqani/99/
Pakistan to use US weapons against India, not jihadists: Pak ex-diplomat
Former Pakistan diplomat warned that American weapons will end up being used to fight or menace India, not deployed against Jihadists.

By: Press Trust of India | New York | Updated: April 21, 2015 2:42 pm

The nearly USD one billion worth of attack helicopters, missiles and other defense equipment being sold to Pakistan by the US will end up being used in the fight against India instead of being deployed against jihadists, according to a former Pakistani diplomat.

Pakistan’s former Ambassador to the US Hussain Haqqani said the Obama administration’s decision to sell US-made attack helicopters, missiles and other equipment to Pakistan will “fuel conflict in South Asia without fulfilling the objective of helping the country fight Islamist extremists.”

“Pakistan’s failure to tackle its jihadist challenge is not the result of a lack of arms but reflects an absence of will. Unless Pakistan changes its worldview, American weapons will end up being used to fight or menace India and perceived domestic enemies instead of being deployed against jihadists,” Haqqani wrote in the Wall Street Journal in the piece titled ‘Why Are We Sending This Attack Helicopter to Pakistan’.

He said that given Pakistan’s “past behavior”, it is “likely” that the 15 AH-1Z Viper helicopters and 1,000 Hellfire missiles as well as communications and training equipment will be used against secular insurgents in southwest Balochistan province and along the disputed border in Kashmir rather than against the jihadists in the northwest.

“Competition with India remains the overriding consideration in Pakistan’s foreign and domestic policies. By aiding Pakistan over the years—some USD 40 billion since 1950, the US has fed Pakistan’s delusion of being India’s regional military equal. Seeking security against a much larger neighbor is a rational objective but seeking parity with it on a constant basis is not,” he said.

Haqqani said that instead of selling more military equipment to Pakistan, US officials should convince Islamabad that its ambitions of rivaling India are “akin to Belgium trying to rival France or Germany.”

Drawing a comparison between the two South Asian nuclear- armed rivals, Haqqani said India’s population is six times as large as Pakistan’s while India’s economy is 10 times bigger, with India’s USD 2 trillion economy managing consistent growth whereas Pakistan’s USD 245 billion economy growing sporadically and undermined by jihadist terrorism.

He said Pakistan continues to depend on Islamist ideology — through its school curricula, propaganda and Islamic legislation — to maintain internal nationalist cohesion, which inevitably encourages extremism and religious intolerance.

Haqqani recalled that between 1950 and 1969, the US gave USD 4.5 billion in aid to Pakistan partly in the hope of using Pakistani troops in anti-communist wars, but Pakistan did not contribute a single soldier for the wars in Korea or Vietnam but went to war with India over Kashmir in 1965.

Again during the 1980s, Pakistan “diverted” the US aid toward its “obsessive rivalry” with India, training insurgents to fight in Kashmir as well as in India’s Punjab.

Haqqani said even after the December attack on a Peshawar school where the Taliban killed 160 people, including many schoolchildren, the “destruction, demobilisation, disarmament or dismantling” of Afghan Taliban and other radical groups is “clearly not on the Pakistani state’s agenda.”

“There has been no move against Kashmir-oriented jihadist groups,” he added.

First Published on: April 21, 2015

srin · Post by **srin** » 04 Jul 2015 19:27

tushar_m wrote:Boxes are for Gun/ammunition's

I see that there is a seat in middle & two seats in the back (behind the seat in middle)

if similar configuration exist in the other side which is not visible then Rudra may carry 6-7 commandos with it.(seated configuration)

Also it may carry 2-3 without ticket commandos(without seats in tight configuration)

Good spotting the seats.

I can see the aft wall of the cabin and there is again something else against the right wall. If you also see the videos I posted a little earlier on this page. those shelves (?) are seen even in flight. So, don't think there is much space inside.

Anyone know the empty weight of the Rudra (with the weapons & ammo) compared to empty weight of Dhruv ? Because weight is the second factor that can limit the passenger capacity.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Jul 2015 15:34

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 082_1.html
Airbus to build naval military choppers with Mahindra
Bids are expected to be issued in the next three-four months and media reports peg the contract value at $1.5-$2 bn

Airbus and Mahindra Group have teamed up to manufacture and supply helicopters for the Indian armed forces. The joint venture will bid for 100 naval utility helicopters and other procurement projects.

Last year, the defence ministry had issued a request for information from Indian companies to build and supply 100 naval utility helicopters in partnership with original equipment manufacturers. Bids are expected to be issued in the next three-four months and media reports peg the contract value at $1.5 billion to $2 billion.

Airbus had expressed interest to tie up with six Indian companies, including Tatas, Reliance and Bharat Forge, before selecting Mahindra Defence as partner. The joint venture was announced on Friday.

Textron and Hindustan Aeronautics are also in the fray for the utility helicopter contract.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Jul 2015 02:28

Which Ka-226 variant is this?

https://defencyclopedia.files.wordpress ... ka-226.jpg

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jul 2015 08:30

Regarding the idea that the armed ALH carries ammunition boxes in the cabin - here is an image of a Dhruv carrying an ammunition box that looks like a human head with helmet in the cabin

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Jul 2015 08:20

Here is a message I sent to Shiv Aroor

I have a question based on a photo you once published on your blog. Your photo was of the inside of the cabin of the Armed ALH (Rudra). As far as I know that is the only available photo of the inside of the cabin of that helo.

Unfortunately your photo showed that the cabin was packed with boxes that may have been electronic equipment. Based on that image people claim that the armed ALH Dhruv cannot carry any men in the cabin (as claimed by HAL) because the cabin is packed with stuff in Shiv Aroor's photo of that cabin with door open.

I wonder if you can refute this? Or is the cabin of the armed version
really going to be full of stuff precluding any ability to carry troops or casualties?

His reply

Sure can refute that. Those boxes aren't permanent.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Jul 2015 10:01

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 047863.cms

For the first time, an indigenously developed anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) has been successfully test-fired from a helicopter platform.

The anti-tank guided missile 'HeliNa', which is a helicopter-launched version of Nag, has been developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Three 'HeliNa' missiles were fired during the guided flight trials at Chandan firing range in Jaisalmer.

Vara Prasad, project director for HeliNa, said that out of the three test-fires, HeliNas hit the target twice.

"The observations are yet to be evaluated," said Prasad, adding that these development trials would pave the way for the 'deliverable stage' in the near future. These missiles were fired from HAL Rudra, also known as ALH WSI, the armed version of HAL Dhruv.

Officials said the trials were conducted for a range of seven kilometres this time.
<snip>
"The previous trials were conducted for a strike range of four kilometres. The evaluation trials were carried out for the anti-tank missile in the hot desert conditions. The trials were against both moving and static targets for different ranges till seven kilometres to evaluate the performance of an improved version of 'IIR seeker' for engaging and striking the target. The HeliNa has an extended strike range of about eight kilometres," said an official.

I recall an Aero India about 6 years ago when the guy at the Naag display sadly remarked that the missile had been ready for the previously demanded benchmark of 4 km but the army now wanted 7 km as that is what foreign vendors were offering

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Jul 2015 10:05

so what are the green boxes for? batteries for the addl electronic gear onboard?

is the 3rd seat meant for a developer to ride along and gather real time data?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Jul 2015 10:28

Philip wrote:The LCA looks like becoming a global "best seller" when inducted.Even if it falls short in some limited qty. of eprfromance specs,it will still be a superb bird. The US is apparently giving Pak more attack helos to fight the ...Taliban No guesses as to where they will be used! From the horses'
mouth.I don't hear any squeaks of protest from the pro-US lobby. If the GOI could talk to the Russians protesting a planned sale of attack helos to Pak,why hasn't it done the same to the US which provides Pak with its key cutting edge weaponry to be used against India? The US is selling attack helos to both India and Pak and is laughing all the way to the bank.

Armata hangover?

THE man said it loud and clear while the US SD was in town!!!!!!

Padho, phir pahahi karo!!!!

Manohar Parrikar voices concern over arms sale to Pakistan

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jul 2015 01:56

I like Parrikar's shirt. Moi have similar shirts and go to meetings with baade saabs.

Carter looks worried about the handshake!!!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 14 Jul 2015 05:08

srin wrote:You mean this

Yup there doesn't seem to be much space in the cabin for anything. I don't know what those boxes are.

Those are not boxes. Those green ones are only panels if you see closely.
On top there are grey boxes, which has these cables going in the back and looks like a Multi Functional Display.

Is this the WSO station?
(Like in airwolf, behind the pilot and the co-pilot sat the wso who would bring on the guns / cannon / enable the stealth or whisper mode :LOL:)
Or this is just telemetry equipment station while the helo is testing.

Space for 3-4 ticketed and 2-3 without ticket jawans too.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Jul 2015 05:33

Gagan the intended design of the weaponized Dhruv was to carry troops and casualties as well. So far we have seen exactly one image of the cabin - the one above and from that image people seem to be reaching the conclusion that the design parameters have been flouted and that the cabin will be full of boxes rather than have the intended space.

I think those boxes could well be telemetry equipment - after all this helo was being tested when Shiv Aroor clicked the image. The in service helicopter will have space for troops or casualty stretchers

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 14 Jul 2015 05:44

If this is telemetry equipment, then all hell is going to break loose.

IA is SURE to demand that HAL make all its dhruvs WS capable - afterall the IA generals know, its only a chin gun, ball camera station and two side racks to hold Helinas no?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Jul 2015 06:41

Gagan wrote:If this is telemetry equipment, then all hell is going to break loose.

IA is SURE to demand that HAL make all its dhruvs WS capable - afterall the IA generals know, its only a chin gun, ball camera station and two side racks to hold Helinas no?

What was done in the combat helicopter was to remove the cabin space and make the helo "narrower" with a smaller frontal profile and add wings.

We don't know what is in those boxes. But HAL says the helo will have space to carry troops and/or casualties. I don't see that space with those boxes. Either the boxes are temporary or HAL is lying. Shiv Aroor who took the photo says the boxes are temporary. That is as much as I can believe at this point in time. Not possible to say what IA or IAF may think or say. I don't have the data.

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Jul 2015 08:23

^^^

Everyone is telling the truth so to speak

"Shiv Aroor who took the photo says the boxes are temporary." -> some of the boxes are probably telemetry equipment and will be removed in production version.
"HAL says the helo will have space to carry troops and/or casualties." -> They didn't specify how many troops/casualties could be carried on Rudra. If one or more extra troops/casualties can be carried, they are correct in what they have stated.
"We don't know what is in those boxes." -> Educated guess would be ammo boxes for chin mounted gun and other computers for pylon weapon management and sensors, and WSO equipment.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Jul 2015 09:26

srai wrote:
Everyone is telling the truth so to speak

50% true onlee. Rest is guesswork

[*]"Shiv Aroor who took the photo says the boxes are temporary." -> some of the boxes are probably telemetry equipment and will be removed in production version.

Shiv Aroor said they are temporary. The telemetry part is guesswork

[*]"HAL says the helo will have space to carry troops and/or casualties." -> They didn't specify how many troops/casualties could be carried on Rudra. If one or more extra troops/casualties can be carried, they are correct in what they have stated.

True

[*]"We don't know what is in those boxes." -> Educated guess would be ammo boxes for chin mounted gun and other computers for pylon weapon management and sensors, and WSO equipment.

Only partly true. We still don't know what those boxes contain. Period. The rest is guesswork

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Jul 2015 12:00

^^^

Yes. Partial truths

We will have to wait and see. Next time at Aero India someone should ask more in detail.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Jul 2015 02:56

We will repair Russian copters here under Make in India: Sanjay Soni

Founded in 1996, Bengaluru-based Si2 Microsystems Ltd (Si2) is a system-in-package (SiP) and microsystems solutions company. Si2 has design centres and manufacturing operations in San Jose (California), Netherlands and Thailand. An SME, Si2 works with the Indian defence forces for indigenisation of critical systems as well as upgradation of obsolete imported systems, including radar systems, electronic warfare (EW) suites, air defence systems, etc. Sanjay Soni, president, SI2 Microsystems, had an interaction with FE’s Huma Siddiqui. Excerpts:

What are the key strengths of SI2 Microsystems?

We provide system-in-package (SiP) and microsystems solutions to Indian defence services and global customers. The main advantage of SIP is size reduction. This makes it ideal for areas like combat aircraft and missiles where space is very limited and constant upgradation of functionality is required. For example, we are able to fit more powerful radars or better avionics systems in the same space as earlier through SIP. We are helping companies make electronics in the missile lighter so that its range and payload can be increased.

What are your expectations form the Make In India initiative?

We work with some of the leading names in the defence and aerospace sectors and our client list includes ISRO, MBDA, ELISRA, Honeywell, ADA, GE, Bosch, Bharat Electronics, HAL, Data Patterns, and IBM. If the government implements Make In India, the domestic companies will get a lot more business opportunities. We have tied up with Aviazapchast, Russia, for taking up repairs and upgradation of Russian helicopters used by our defence forces. The entire work would be done under the Make in India programme. Until now these works were done in Russia. We are also in the process of signing some more tie-ups with international original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) for the Make in India programme.

What kind of opportunities are there for SMEs in defence?

The opportunities are numerous, and primarily in manufacturing items like electronics and mechanical parts under the defence offset programme. Supply of critical spares under the indigenisation programme is being promoted by the government.

How easy or difficult is it for an SME to get into the field ?

It is not easy for an SME to get into the field as the qualification process for defence products is very long and cumbersome. The prerequisites, including established manufacturing infrastructure, quality certifications such as AS9100 and ISO, experience in supplying to international customers at global quality standards are challenging and patience is needed as the process is cumbersome.

How much weightage do you give to R&D?

SI2 caters to various industry verticals, including space & aerospace, defence & military, consumer electronics, and power. Innovation in business requires the vision to invest in a technology of the future. The first innovative measure Si2 Microsystems had taken was to set up a production facility for a new technology, called “system-in-package”. This is a state-of-the art facility with very high precision equipment for every process involved. SIP technology is used for the system miniaturisation in applications like space, avionics, hand-held devices, Implantable medical devices, etc. Si2 Microsystems has grown tremendously as an SIP and microsystems solutions company providing wireless, wireline solutions. It aims to impart leading edge microelectronics solutions by integrating chip & system design capabilities with manufacturing technology to come up with SiP and microsystems solutions.

How do you plan to grow your international footprint?

Si2 has a manufacturing facility in the USA. We are also in the process of tying up technology transfer agreements with several Russian companies for upgrading India’s existing defence equipment. We are also trying to expand the relationship with our international clients in France and Israel. These are all part of our strategy to expand our international footprint.

What is your strategy towards securing a larger share of the Indian defence market?

The strategy is multi-pronged. We are seeking tie-ups with international defence companies for technology transfer to Si2 in areas such as avionics, radars, and missile testers. The expansion of our product offering will help us garner a larger share of the pie. Our products and applications cover a large spectrum. We make products like missile test benches, portable missile and launcher testers. Si2 has also announced solutions for the Smart City projects in street lighting and automatic meter reading for power, gas and water segments.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 20 Jul 2015 09:44

It was posted on LIVEFIST that the LUH will see first flight in August '15. This was in Feb '15.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/02/ ... -hals.html

Any news / updates on this?

The last update that I saw was from Saurav Jha on 1'st Mar 15:
http://www.ibnlive.com/blogs/india/saur ... 74550.html

Meanwhile HAL has already started work on a 600 plus acre greenfield project in Gubbi in Karnataka to manufacture LUHs. This facility is said to have the capability to manufacture 50-60 3 ton LUHs annually and seems to be tailored to producing HAL's own LUH design which is expected to enter flight testing in mid- 2015 with certification sometime in 2016. The first LUH ground test vehicle(GTV) recently underwent engine ground runs. HAL is now expected to churn out three flying prototypes in quick succession. The speed with which HAL is actually able to do this will decide just how much of the 187 unit RS helicopter order 'allocated' to it earlier by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) will actually materialize. The LUH of course is quite contemporary with comparable specs to the Ka-226T although its layout is more conventional.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 20 Jul 2015 10:39

Manu Pubby ‏@manupubby 27m27 minutes ago

In $ 1.1 bl deal, IAF to acquire 48 more Mi 17 V5 choppers to strengthen transport fleet
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 138408.cms

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 20 Jul 2015 12:04

So that's 80 + 71 + 48 ~ 200 Mi-17s.

So why exactly did we import these instead of license-building them at HAL, like we usually do?

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 20 Jul 2015 12:16

Viv S wrote:So that's 80 + 71 + 48 ~ 200 Mi-17s.

So why exactly did we import these instead of license-building them at HAL, like we usually do?

IIRC, they are being assembled in an IAF BRD in punjab

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 20 Jul 2015 12:29

Gubbi near Tumkur is where Lord Sri Rama is said to have stopped on his way back from Lanka. Hopefully his blessings wiill get this plant production off the ground sooner rather than later.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jul 2015 12:37

When the deal was announced about the KA-226 LUH,there was one report which said that MI-17s might also be manufactured here. The bird is the best medium multi-role helo in the world,used extensively in Afghanistan,where even elderly MI-8s on lease were in short supply. There is a huge demand for more helos,medium esp. for mountain warfare,disaster relief,the U'khand and Nepal disasters required huge helo ops accessing remote areas. Acquiring at the moment more Med. and heavy-lift helos would help the IA more than acquiring more heavy transports,given the IA's requirments of supporting its forces in such hostile terrain. should it arrive within the next 3 years,would also have a good market within and without the country if costs are kept reasonable. That the helos are to be assembled here isn't however as good as manufacturing them.When we ordered 80+ not too long ago,we should've explored the possibility of local manufacture.I don't see this 40+ as being the last MI-17V orders.More may come in the future.