Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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negi
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by negi »

srin wrote:Unlike Javelin, it has a laser seeker and not a fire-and-forget IIR seeker. So, the infantry team doing the launch will be especially vulnerable because the tank crew is now alerted by laser emitter.
Taking a top of the line foreign portable ATGM and comparing our first equivalent with it is a trap which import lobbyists want Indians to fall into . If Unkil would have fallen into the same trap a few decades ago then they would have been operating Leopard 2 series today and M1A Abrams would have never happened .

Besides while you compare the capabilities of the two missiles please consider the unit price and hence numbers in which we can deploy it too as someone long ago said "Quantity has a quality of it's own".
Ranjani Brow

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Ranjani Brow »

I think what Amrikan's are sayin' is buy/make the Javelin ATGM (with 97% ToT) and then they can also develop a next-gen successor to this 3rg gen ATGM.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by vishvak »

Thing is if we have some joint project, will the product degrade performance of already available Nag - which then will mean continue purchase of next Gen++ javeline.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by srai »

NRao wrote:
If Javelins were to be finally down-selected, there is still quite a ways to go in negotiations on TOT, Offset requirements, end-user usage agreements, license production, etc. It would be a minimum of another 5 years before we see Javelins (if it were to be selected) in the IA service.
Not really.

For one there were two versions of the Javelin offered. The latest offer is that of the latest gen (the earlier offer was a gen behind).

Secondly, as one of the Indian Labs people stated, India has been offered 97% of the technologies (the 3% seems to constitute the algo - and that still may be under negotiations. It is my understanding that the US SD is not against it, it is the vendor that does not want to give out the algo, but I could be wrong).

Thirdly, there was an article - just prior to Hagle's visit - that stated, the whole purpose of this co-production is to get rid of all these fears India has - from sanctions to any sort of snooping fears. IF every thing is made in India, then not much anyone can do to ensure what India is doing with the various techs.

What I am trying to look into is if these techs can be re-purposed - so a Javelin tech absorbed into a Nag (as an example). I have not come across anything that clarifies that.


I would wait till Modi ji comes back + a few months. Not an easy path. But there could be huge benefits.
I think you have fallen into the TOT hype ;) It all sounds good at high-level but when you start looking through the fine print you will begin to see how restrictive TOT/IP are. For one thing, IP is not shared to be freely used nilly-willy. There are a number of restrictions that are likely to be placed, such as restricted use only to Javelin series, or cannot use these technologies on another system for another 10 years, or can only be used for x number of units, or if enhanced then have to share it with IP holder, etc. Basically, why would foreign companies with hard-earned IP freely transfer TOT without any restrictions to a potential competitor? Truth of the matter is they won't. TOT is another word for license production with TOT-parts being produced locally. You can't use it for anything else or enhance it unless you also want to gift it to the TOT provider.
Last edited by srai on 16 Sep 2014 07:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by srai »

sattili wrote:
srin wrote:Unlike Javelin, it has a laser seeker and not a fire-and-forget IIR seeker. So, the infantry team doing the launch will be especially vulnerable because the tank crew is now alerted by laser emitter.
Laser designator need not be from the launch team alone, CLGM can be designated by another laser source also. Much like those special forces teams in Afghanistan who would laze the target and F-16 or some other aircraft launches the missile (here we are talking about CLGM however). But yes with the laser warning receivers becoming common place it would put the designator team at risk of counter fire.
Other thing to point out is, Research Centre Imarat (RCI) has other seeker types in the works as well: (1) mmW (millimteric Wave) seeker, (2) IIR (Imaging infrared) seeker, and (3) two colour seeker. Here are articles mentioning these: DRDO scientists to develop advanced seekers for tactical missiles and Seeking the future: An interview with Dr G Satheesh Reddy, Director Research Centre Imarat. Nag missile has been flight-tested with an indigenously-developed mmW seeker and IIR seeker. Two colour seekers are heading for developmental trials in 2016. It is a matter of time these other types of seekers will be mated to CLGM (or other munitions). But for initial batch (call it Mk.1), CLGM could be inducted with laser seeker and designator.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

Great posts srai.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by member_27164 »

Er.. sorry but doesnt IIR means Infinite Impulse Response instead of Imaging Infrared?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by nash »

It means lot of things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIR

:D
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by srai »

Another name for CLGM:

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by svinayak »

srai wrote: Other thing to point out is, Research Centre Imarat (RCI) has other seeker types in the works as well: (1) mmW (millimteric Wave) seeker, (2) IIR (Imaging infrared) seeker, and (3) two colour seeker. Here are articles mentioning these: DRDO scientists to develop advanced seekers for tactical missiles and Seeking the future: An interview with Dr G Satheesh Reddy, Director Research Centre Imarat. Nag missile has been flight-tested with an indigenously-developed mmW seeker and IIR seeker. Two colour seekers are heading for developmental trials in 2016. It is a matter of time these other types of seekers will be mated to CLGM (or other munitions). But for initial batch (call it Mk.1), CLGM could be inducted with laser seeker and designator.
A friend was asked by dept people about sources of seekers in the west. These things are closely guarded tech.
India is likely to make all generation of seekers
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Prem »

http://thebulletin.org/argument-hyperso ... ng-ban7412
(Syapa Ayatollah Rudalis are back)
The argument for a hypersonic missile testing ban
Hypersonic cruise missiles, on the other hand, typically are launched to high speed using a small rocket, and then, after dropping the rocket, are powered by a supersonic combustion ram jet, or scramjet, for flight at five times the speed of sound (some 3,800 miles per hour) or greater.
The recent failed Chinese and American tests were of boost-glide systems; the X-51 WaveRider, which the US successfully tested last year after a string of failures, is an example of the scramjet cruise missile. The boost-glide test failures were probably caused by issues with booster rockets rather than with the hypersonic gliders themselves. Regardless, these systems didn't work, demonstrating that both boost-glide and powered hypersonic cruise missiles require testing. Such tests are easily observable from space and via radar and signals intelligence gathering (not to mention old-fashioned human spying). A test moratorium would throw a huge obstacle in the path of hypersonic programs, and a permanent test ban would make it clear that they aren’t going anywhere. And that would be a good thing, because where they are going is nowhere good.In the US, hypersonic missiles have been billed as a method for quickly delivering conventional warheads when time is of the essence; one example often given is attacking a terrorist stronghold promptly when intelligence indicates the opportunity to kill a high-value target. In practice, however, the most successful attacks in counter-terrorism operations have been launched not from thousands of miles away but from nearby, using ground forces, manned aircraft, or drones.
Some proponents are more open in contending that hypersonic weapons should be developed to provide a capability for attacking strategic military targets within the territory of a major military power, including, as defense consultant Timothy A. Walton suggests, “space downlink systems, fixed anti-satellite tracking and firing systems, key radars and associated systems, command and control nodes, long-range surveillance systems, and possibly even transporter erector launchers (TELs), TEL reload points, or ships in port.” Proponents claim that the use of hypersonic weapons with conventional warheads (or pure kinetic energy) would permit such attacks to be carried out on the home territory of a nuclear power without the risk of a nuclear response. But Chinese and Russian officials have indicated they fear that US hypersonic weapons could be used to lead a nuclear first strike, and both those countries have begun hypersonic missile programs of their own, suggesting that, absent controls, a full-scale hypersonic arms race is just around the corner.It’s not often that one can say an entire technology should be banned because it has no conceivable good use. Hypersonic missiles, however, may present just such a case. Hypersonic air travel seems economically unjustifiable in an era of climate change, high-cost energy, and low-cost video telepresence. But if civilian hypersonic air travel ever did become a reality, it would take the form of a large airplane, not a small missile. Low-cost satellite launches? Hypersonic space planes such as DARPA’s planned XS-1, which would lift rockets to high altitude, might make some sense. But again, to achieve economies of scale, such hypersonic boosters would need to be large, which the hypersonic missiles under military development are not.Hypersonic missiles are not intended only for deep land attack; they are also likely to be used at sea, for attacking ships, island bases, and shore facilities. BrahMos, a Russian-Indian joint venture, has already produced the world’s fastest supersonic cruise missile, and that venture is working on a hypersonic version, with the anti-ship role as a major aim. Shortening the strike time for naval missile warfare is a recipe for hair-trigger confrontation between major powers contending for regional or global dominance. If there is a way to stop or slow this development, the world should take it.

How to stop the hypersonic missile race in its tracks. Fortunately, a hypersonic missile test ban would be one of the most rigorously verifiable arms control measures one could imagine. It could begin with an informal moratorium, agreed and announced among the major players, and followed up by negotiations for a binding, permanent ban treaty.To speed its approval, any such moratorium would have to define hypersonic missiles in a way that does not require elimination of already existing cruise missile systems. I would propose a ban on flights of any aerodynamic vehicle of less than, say, 15 meters length or 2 meters diameter, traveling in powered or unpowered flight at speeds in excess of 1 kilometer per second, over a horizontal distance greater than 100 kilometers. Space and ballistic missile launches and reentries could be specifically excepted. The numbers are somewhat arbitrary and could be fine-tuned or adjusted substantially while preserving the intent of the agreement. The numbers suggested here would permit Russia and India to retain their BrahMos 1 supersonic cruise missile, while forcing them to cancel the hypersonic BrahMos 2. The United States and China would then be permitted to develop supersonic systems comparable to BrahMos 1 but would have to cancel their hypersonic programs. While an even lower speed limit would be desirable, canceling future programs verifiably via a test ban should be an easier sell to other countries than eliminating existing, proven, deployed systems. Tests of hypersonic missiles are easily identified by their flight profiles, speeds, and the heat and turbulence generated by hypersonic flight. US tests are conducted at sea and could be observed by China and Russia from international waters; Chinese and Russian tests over land could be observed by the US from space and, to some extent, from friendly countries.
Hypersonic missiles are a new class of weapon that no country actually needs. Their military advantages are ill-defined, and their capacity to destabilize relations among major powers and contribute to a costly and dangerous strategic arms race is enormous. Even so, the United States can’t expect that just because it proposes a test ban, other nations will line up to renounce hypersonic missiles. What America can reasonably hope is that other nations will see their shared interest in avoiding or slowing a dangerous escalation of the arms race. I am therefore proposing that the United States suspend testing for a while, to show good faith as it seeks agreement on an international ban on hypersonic testing.If the suspension does not draw a positive response from other countries, the United States can always resume its programs, while still advocating a general moratorium, thereby seizing the moral high ground. That others might not join America there immediately is a poor excuse for not proposing a hypersonic testing ban and calling the others to join. Indeed, if the United States is unwilling to forgo hypersonic testing for a time, others have every reason to be cynical about its real motives and intentions. I’m not sure that I understand those motivations. But I am reasonably certain that hypersonic missiles will not help to make America stronger or more secure, because it is clear, from their programs already in progress, that other nations will not allow the United States to claim a monopoly on hypersonic weaponry.. Today, a resurgent arms race is being driven by emerging technologies­—hypersonic weapons, space weapons, autonomous weapons controlled by artificial intelligence—and the question before humanity is whether in the 21st century, technology will be the driver of history, or humans will assert the sovereign right to determine their own future. I believe the cause of humanity is served by placing roadblocks in the path of a technology-driven arms race. A ban on the testing of hypersonic missiles presents one terribly important and relatively simple opportunity to do just that.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

In other words an area where the west does not have an unassailable lead, so lets just stop the race before India, Russia, China develop it.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

srai wrote:Another name for CLGM:

Image
Yup...shame its not in mass production yet...the Army should use these to replace its earlier non tandem warhead equipped Milan/Konkurs, and supplement the limited numbers of whatever F&F missile it procures..
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Shrinivasan »

More missile tests...this sounds fishy or just plain DDM reporting...
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 437058.ece

The reporter talks about Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air in this article... he talks about Russian AAMs being fired by SU-30s and Mig-29s at targets towed by PTA... at the same time he talks about defending Indian cities as well as a failed tests of SAMs... Can anybody clarify what is planned to be tested?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by sum »

The mission is crucial for the IAF as last year an Air Force troupe had to wind up their air defence exercise at the test facility here as at least three trials of the five attempts made to engage aerial targets by a Russian surface-to-air missile (SAM) failed successively.
Does this mean that all exisiting Russie maal of all types is being put through the grind since otherwise there should not be any relation between A2A and S2A missile tests!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by tsarkar »

^^ That is a derivative of CLGM that is inspired by LAHAT.

Tank fired missiles are very expensive, with seeker heads & electronics designed to be withstand pressures of being fired from a tank barrel. I am told cost of each INVAR & LAHAT missile is more than the unit cost of older T55 & Vijayanta tanks.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Singha »

I thought tank fired ATGM were not actually fired using a charge but allowed to fly out under own power and discard any plastic adapter used to fit inside the barrel through air resistance.
in that sense the pressure would not more than fired from a shorter normal launch tube. if you look at a Milan launcher the entire launcher is violently thrown back leaving the shooter with only a small shoulder stand and the optics module!!

I base my assertion on the fact that tank launched ATGMs are as slow as normal ATGMs which would not be case if a charge we used. a APDS round covers 2km in 1 sec roughly...no way any ATGM does that. a fat HESH round around 900m/s and ATGMs do not match that even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRfe09g9JM
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

Having said so. The Kitlov is a 122 MM guided anti tank round for the D30, designed by the KBP Tula. The US was working on a 120 MM MMW guided round for their MBT. This was canceled in 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM1111_Mid-Range_Munition
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

tsarkar wrote:^^ That is a derivative of CLGM that is inspired by LAHAT.

Tank fired missiles are very expensive, with seeker heads & electronics designed to be withstand pressures of being fired from a tank barrel. I am told cost of each INVAR & LAHAT missile is more than the unit cost of older T55 & Vijayanta tanks.
Well technology isnt cheap. Whither a Mica cost wise versus some WW2 fighters.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by srai »

Akash Ripple Fire Test on May 28, 2014


Shows the full flight from launch to target destruction at 19 seconds. The second missile launched 5 seconds after the first explodes at 23 seconds (I'm assuming at a place where the target would have been if the first one had missed). Booster to Ramjet switch occurs after 5 seconds of flight.

From rough calculations, at 600m/s missile speed the target interception would have occurred at around 11km. Or at 700m/s, target interception would have occurred at around 13km.
Last edited by srai on 19 Sep 2014 07:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by srai »

DRDO video on Akash:


AeroIndia 2013

  • Speed -> 25km in 35 seconds. [Booster -> 4.6s; Sustainer -> 35.5s] That is roughly 700m/s.
  • Warhead lethality -> 50 meters
  • Onboard Seeker -> dropped after 6 years of R&D due to weight and range issues
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by kit »

the achilles heel being the Rajendra radar system ..if that is taken out ! wonder what kind of redundancies can be planned in more advanced versions
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Pratyush »

The launcher in the future could be made autonomous. Like the BUK. Other then that, not much can be done. Unless, the Akash Launcher can use the data from an orbiting AEW as a shooting solution.
Last edited by Pratyush on 19 Sep 2014 12:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by kit »

the only problem with an adversary like khan would be that SAM systems themselves are made redundant by ARMs, ECCMs and stealthy cruise missiles very early into a conflict.Now since the Rajendra has a good tracking range , would networking all the Radars in a region provide more redundancy against a attacking force., say 20 radars all networked and cued might be a harder target to neutralize.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by rohitvats »

AT missile inside barrel of T-90 tank:

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Austin »

Janes states India orders Sosna system , Is this to replace tunguska system ?

http://www.janes.com/article/43460/aad- ... production
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Ranjani Brow »

AAD: Sosna nears production
The Sosna mobile short-range air-defence system will complete its firing trials later this year and production will start for India in 2015 :shock: :shock: , according to Dr Vladimir Slobodchikov, the managing director of technical sciences at Russia's Nudelman Precision Engineering Design Bureau (KBtochmash).

"There is a final series of trials that will happen in October," he told IHS Jane's at the Africa Aerospace and Defence (AAD) show held in Pretoria on 17-21 September.

Slobodchikov described the Sosna as the "the last line of defence" against aircraft, precision weapons, and lightly armoured ground targets.
This had a range of between 1 and 10 km, Slobodchikov said, and carried two warheads, together weighing 7 kg, and two fuzes. The first rod-fragmentation warhead was to destroy proximity targets, while the second fragmentation warhead was for destroying targets on impact.

Each Sosna vehicle had 12 ready-to-fire missiles and could be reloaded in 12 minutes, Slobodchikov said.

The missile is radio-command guided when in its boost phase, after which a laser beam riding guidance system takes over. The optical fire-control system makes the Sosna highly survivable, effective in cluttered environments, and difficult to jam, according to KBtochmash.
http://www.janes.com/article/43460/aad- ... production


Image
koti
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by koti »

^ Wow... They have a yahoo email Id.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Ardeshir »

The NSA says hello in that case. :cry:
When will the government and all its arms move over to a .nic.in email address?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Philip »

The Palma (Sosna) lightweight module is ideal for smaller naval craft.If the Sosna is being acquired by the IA,then the case for commonality would serve the IN well.

Karan,any idea of the status of SAMHO? What is the future of Nag then?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Ranjani Brow »

SAHMO: Semi-Active Laser homing; 18.5 Kg (missile weight)
Nag: Imaging Infrared Seeker; 40 Kg (missile weight)
unknown PGM: MMW Seeker; unknown (missile weight)

SAMHO is man-portable where as Nag is supposed to be carried on a carrier-vehicle.
So how's status of SAMHO has anything to do with Nag ?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Philip »

What about the man-portable version of Nag?
Read this Aug '14 report.It says that the US offer of the Javelin,which it earlier refused to give us,was only because of the NAG progress,both versions.The intention is to "stop development" of the local alternative.

http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news- ... ZUybKnoUI=
"DRDO, meanwhile, has begun work on the homemade Nag missile, which would weigh only 16 kilograms compared to Javelin’s 26 kilograms, the DRDO scientist claimed."

http://idrw.org/?p=41653

Xcpt. from a report last yr.
DRDO, meanwhile, has begun work on the homemade Nag missile, which would weigh only 16 kilograms compared to Javelin’s 26 kilograms, the DRDO scientist claimed.

The man-portable version of the Nag missile is simpler than the vehicle-mounted version and, as such, could be developed in the next three years, the scientist said.

An Indian Army official said everyone, including DRDO, would be happy to get Javelin as nearly 25 years of work on the Nag ATGM has yet to result in a mature, third generation ATGM.

The Indian Army uses second generation, French-made Milan and Russian-made Konkurs ATGMs, which have a range of less than 2,000 meters.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Ranjani Brow »

Man-portable version of Nag is currently in 'hardware realization phase' (courtesy: Saurav Jha).
Prototype (3 yrs) --> Development Trials (2 yrs) --> User Trials (1-2 yrs :oops: ) --> Production !!
So it'll take 7-8 years for MP Nag to be operational and more to be procured in quantities. For operational readiness in this decade IA will definitely be going for Javelin (imho).
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by kit »

one remembers the american groundbreaking offer of the patriot missile s not long back when the akash missile project was nearing completion . These along with proper artillery will probably empower the indian army to deal with the pakistani army... unless the USA decides to transfer a new weapon system to Pakistan to " keep the geo strategic balance" as they say it ..they have done it before and will do it again
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Aditya_V »

kit wrote:one remembers the american groundbreaking offer of the patriot missile s not long back when the akash missile project was nearing completion . These along with proper artillery will probably empower the indian army to deal with the pakistani army... unless the USA decides to transfer a new weapon system to Pakistan to " keep the geo strategic balance" as they say it ..they have done it before and will do it again
Yes but there is a limit, they are able to give Pakistan only limited numbers for free, so if we buy uber expensive in small numbers they can play the game, if we are able to manufacture this game goes bust.

Initially they were trying to say how Pakistan with M-9 (Shaheen), M-11 (Hatf -3) and Neodong(Ghauri) and How Pakistan had superior missile technology, now that we have moved to A-5, they cant arm Pakis with missile which can hit GCC heartland, Israel, Chinese heartland, Europe.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Ranjani Brow »

India drops Israeli LAHAT, will develop own missile for Arjun Mk-2
In an exclusive interview to HT, DRDO chief Avinash Chander said, “The LAHAT missile doesn’t figure in our plans anymore. We are dropping it. We have been working on a tube-launched anti-tank missile :?: :?: , which hopefully can be configured for the tank’s cannon.”
Chander said the LAHAT missile did not meet the army’s requirements of engaging targets at ranges of less than 1,200 metres. It has an effective range of 6,000 metres.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by John »

Austin wrote:Janes states India orders Sosna system , Is this to replace tunguska system ?

http://www.janes.com/article/43460/aad- ... production
Austin take the news with grain of salt the source is some one from KBtochmash, Russian defense companies typically make BS claims like that which often turn out to be false. Anyway it will be a replacement for SA-9/13 in service and can even fitted onto existing platforms.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Thakur_B »

Karan M wrote:This two color seeker is a new beast apart from the ones above! Probably the IIR one for the PDV HK vehicle.
More likely for a short ranged version of Astra to complement medium range and long range variants.
Philip wrote:What is the future of Nag then?
Nag will remain in the IIR domain only and if everything goes right, no spike or pars 3 will be imported for Rudra(which have already started testing Helina at full range).

------------------------------------------------------------------
It appears that there is a smaller Sudarshan kit for a 250 Kg HSLD bomb as well:
Image

Sudharshan has issues with it's roll rate. One of the proposed solutions by ADE was to have a free rotating tail to fix the roll rate issues. From an older RFP for simulation:-
ADE is engaged with design & development of high precision laser guided bomb (LGB). It is
an air dropped munition that by help of its seeker guides itself towards the target. The associated
control law deflects the front canards to generate the desired trajectory. Figure 1 shows its overall
configuration. During its free flight, Air Weapon generates a roll which may be arising from
sources such as manufacturing asymmetry, small protrusions, separation dynamics or unsteady
atmospheric conditions. Though the roll is unintentional, it is generally not harmful, as small
amount of roll provides lateral stability to the flight. The control law is also such that it is able to
incorporate some amount roll while guidance is given to munition. The problem arises when roll
rate is more than 10 RPM which causes control law to be ineffective and it becomes difficult to
guide the munition.
In such instances, the canards are deflected so as to generate rolling moment for reducing the
RPM. It is observed that canards are not very effective in producing desired rolling moment due to
an “adverse roll” effect being generated from tail fin. It can be seen that the size of canards is
relatively large and when deflected, creates a large wake. The interaction of this wake with tail fins
is reason behind “adverse roll” effect. This phenomena leads to non linear rolling moment (w.r.t.
canard deflection). The non-linearity makes it very difficult to implement a roll control law in Air
Weapon.
Therefore, ADE has decided to modify the munition to a Free Rolling Tail configuration,
thereby, isolating the effect of tail roll on canard roll control effectiveness. However, whether the
free rolling tail will affect the overall aerodynamics of Air Weapon, is dictated by the roll rate of
tail, which is difficult to estimate.
ADE desires to investigate the “adverse roll” phenomena in Air Weapon by CFD-dynamics
studies with an objective to estimate the roll rate of tail fin under the influence of “induced” rolling
moment.
However it's the ARDE and not ADE that has called out a tender recently for tail units for 500 Kg general purpose bombs. One may recall that ARDE was the lab working on the Glide Bomb. ARDE has also called out tender for high dynamic GPS and GAGAN compatible receiver (capable of tracking 4g movement) whose specs suggest that it might be for the glide bomb. Furthermore ARDE has rolled out a tender for supply of impact delay fuses compatible with penetrator bombs (80 to 1000 Kg range).

Here's some old news concerning penetrator bombs being developed in the country:
Image
PS: The flux compression generator mentioned in the article is the heart of an EMP bomb :)
Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Vipul »

France asks India to finalise joint missile project soon.

France has asked India for early finalisation of the long-pending Rs 30,000-crore project for joint production of short-range surface-to-air missile (SR-SAM) systems.

In a letter, the French Defence Ministry has told its Indian counterpart that "it will carry out substantial transfer of technology and know-how, especially in the field of missile guidance".

The French side has proposed that the project "would enable India to get in a few years in areas of strategic missile, the maximum autonomy you have called for".

SR-SAM is proposed to be a joint venture between India and France and they have nominated the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) and a French multinational firm for the programme.

The deal has been under negotiations for over five years and has been awaiting final clearance after French President Francois Hollande and then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in 2013 announced that talks have been concluded between both the sides on the missile development project.

The IAF had raised certain objections over the programme but the Defence Ministry has to take a final call on the programme after holding discussions with all stakeholders.

The French Defence Ministry said it wants to actively participate in new Indian government's plans to achieve autonomy in field of military hardware production.

It has said that the missile programme would help in meeting India's domestic market and can also be supplied to future export markets.
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