Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 25 Jun 2009 20:18

HariC wrote:
Mid air re-arming has never been done to my knowledge. My compliments for coming up with a really original question. Why has nobody done it? Probbay because it is difficult - however that is no a good excuse
A better excuse is that "It is not needed - will not be needed in a realistic battle"

I tend to agree with that. If you are out of ammo over a hostile territory it's best to make a dash for home base.
If you are over your own territory then you will have ground and air support that you can use.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 25 Jun 2009 20:20

govardhanks wrote:These questions are about missiles i could't find a definite answer for it.

1. After a missile like Agni is produced, for how many years it will be in functional state?

2. I have read that radar system like AWACS can focus their radar beams and can destroy the missile'e electronic equipment. Is it possible if so how many missiles it can destroy?

3. Can a missile function without the help satellites?

AFAIK AESA radars have the capability to do beam steering.

Digitially controlled beamstearing is also allows the radar to function as a electronic weapon capable of focusing on a single target and jamming or distrupting any unshielded electronic componets.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2009 21:17

HariC wrote:
Mid air re-arming has never been done to my knowledge. My compliments for coming up with a really original question. Why has nobody done it? Probbay because it is difficult - however that is no a good excuse
A better excuse is that "It is not needed - will not be needed in a realistic battle"

The person who figures out a way of doing that will change the game.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Jun 2009 21:25

couldn't find the original report on israeli efforts in this area but here is a more detailed one.

http://defense-update.com/features/du-3 ... e-abra.htm

According to Nir Padan, CEO of the Israeli company FAR Technologies, the Air-Borne Re-Arming concept is real and could dramatically enhance operational tempo of combat aircraft and particularly UCAVs. Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) and FAR Technologies performed a successful technological feasibility study and design of the Air-Borne Re-Arming (ABRA) system. Padan says that airborne rearming could increase the yield from any fleet of strike aircraft, particularly in long range and extended duration missions, typical to those carried out by UCAVs. Padan adds that on the long term, this mode of operation will require less missions, fewer takeoff/landing cycles, resulting in lower maintenance costs. A side benefit will be the improved safety and survivability of the operating bases and carriers.

the page also has a graphics showing how it is intended to be done.

The system consists of a bomb storage and loading device , attached to a boom at carried by the cargo plane and a smart pylon carried by the attack aircraft, which obtains the weapon from the robotic arm, attaching it to the weapon's bay or external weapon carrying pylons. An aerial rearming aircraft such as a C-130C, can carry up to 16 MK-84 guided or unguided bombs or considerably more smaller weapons (C-17/5 may potentially carry 4-6 times more). Bombs can be stored in an external or internal bay. The robotic uses an extendable boom, operating from the cargo plane. Controlled by an automatic engagement control (AEC) and supported aerodynamic lift surfaces, the robotic weapon loader will transfer the ordnance from the cargo plane to the attack aircraft. The smart pylon may include sensors and a camera for day and night use. It will interface with the automatic engagement control (AEC) system to automatically activate ordnance on the pneumatic multi-action ejection mechanism and an active sway brace for mid-air operation.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 25 Jun 2009 21:53

Rahul M wrote:couldn't find the original report on israeli efforts in this area but here is a more detailed one.

IIRC this was aimed at re-arming UAVs/UCAVs

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Jun 2009 21:59

for a start, yes but it seems they have plans of continuing to manned strike a/c.
the graphics aboce for example shows an F-16.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 25 Jun 2009 22:18

Rahul M wrote:couldn't find the original report on israeli efforts in this area but here is a more detailed one.

Err I posted the link to the Israeli company, Far Technologies' at the top of this page.

here is the link again

Aerial re-arming Far technologies

and no. it's not meant only for UAV/UCAV.

Concept
Remove bottleneck by re-arming aircraft in the air, in a safe area, close to the fighting zone using the Airborne Re-Arming System (ABRA).

Technical Overview

Designed for efficient aerial delivery of bombs from a cargo aircraft to attack aircraft (fighter jet or UCAV)

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 25 Jun 2009 23:03

What happened to Nayakuddin? Read in another thread that he is 'shaheed'- ized.

Regards,
Kiran

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Jun 2009 23:09

thanks for the link sunil sahab, I had actually started replying before you had posted and hadn't read your post.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 26 Jun 2009 02:44

Sorry if posted already

Nice website mentioning major activities all over world with time-line.
History Commons

don't know if they are authentic and verified.

Thanks,
Venkat

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 26 Jun 2009 16:25

pgbhat wrote:
k prasad wrote: Sure sumji, although I'm sure it would be way way way below ur level... the reason I said mail is coz I'm not confident enuf to put it up openly. I'm sure that it'll be filled with errors...

plz do mail, and we can probably try and fix it together...
k prasad sir can I also get a copy?? please.

Send me a mail sirjee, and i'll send it... sniperz11s at googel myle dat coom

Cheers

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 26 Jun 2009 16:33

govardhanks wrote:These questions are about missiles i could't find a definite answer for it.

1. After a missile like Agni is produced, for how many years it will be in functional state?

2. I have read that radar system like AWACS can focus their radar beams and can destroy the missile'e electronic equipment. Is it possible if so how many missiles it can destroy?

3. Can a missile function without the help satellites?

1. Usually it is 5 yrs, but that is variable, and secret (also depends on the solid state fuel used), so no one knows

2. Not at present power levels and accuracy. The level of beam focus required would call for extremely low sidelobes and extremely small beams, within which all the power can be concentrated. Then, this beam has to be steered so fast that it must keep lock on the missile. Then, the power within that beam itself must be so high as to be able to burn through or blind the 'tronics.

Otherwise, it will only shine a torch to the missile saying "I'm here, hit me!". None of these exist practically at present, so we stick to equally effective countermeasure suites. Directed IR Countermeasures, on the other hand, are very very practical and are being tested. The directed rf has problems.

As for the jamming thing... jamming is usually applied to active signals that are coming at you, which prevents detection. Missiles are getting smarter and smarter, and usually catch this jamming, and sometimes use that as well, to provide a sort of homing beacon. It may work, but usually, jamming needs to be done before the guy fires off his stores at you, rather than after (of course, if the missile is being guided by his radar, then, there is always a good idea to jam his radar, but generally, missiles come with their own seekers today, either IR or RF).

3. Yes... if it doesn't depend on GPS it can, and most don't rely on sats for homing... they may use sat signals, but mostly for initial targeting, after which they use the digital map and inertial guidance. Else, there are other methods of guidance, most of which dont require sats

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 27 Jun 2009 02:07

k prasad wrote: Send me a mail sirjee, and i'll send it... sniperz11s at googel myle dat coom

Cheers

Mail sent TIA

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 29 Jun 2009 12:13

A question to the gurus. Why is it that, in a section, the NCO carries an SMG (like Sterling), not an assault rifle? The SMG is useful for CQB, right? So does that mean that the NCO can ONLY fight in close quarters?

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 29 Jun 2009 12:16

Hi
Can any body help me learning avionics ?? Is there any group active in learning it in and around bangalore.I want to take part in building aeromodels/UAV's as a hobby.

Cheers

Prabhu.G

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 30 Jun 2009 20:34

There was a news about Raytheon doing the MCU upgrades for Jaguar IAF. Does this mean that future Jags will be able to only use the American munitions.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 01 Jul 2009 03:48

To RayC sir, I know this might sound like childes but lets say we defend chinese offensive than do Indian Army have offensive plan ready, How much extend ( is it up to recapture lost land during 1962 or further it)!? Vivek Ahuja's scenario is one of the reason to ask this question.

Ankit

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 02 Jul 2009 14:54

Rediff article

up to 49 per cent Foreign Direct Investment in defence and insurance.

Does this augument well for our defence? or is this unnecessary risk on part of GOI?
gurus kindly clarify...

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 05 Jul 2009 11:37

The person who figures out a way of doing that will change the game

.

exactly , it may be difficult but is not impossible.. A mid air station might be needed for IAF force multiplication..
The world's fourth largest airforce needs it.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 05 Jul 2009 11:58

If we compare a stealth aircraft v/s stealth missile which one is more usefull ?

Is DRDO making any stealth missiles which cannot be detected?

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 05 Jul 2009 21:53

Where can I find the BR logos and other images used in this site. I tried to look in the images section but could not find any BR logo. Can someone please post a link for the logo image only.

nitinbhasin · Post by **nitinbhasin** » 05 Jul 2009 22:30

Hi everyone, I have been lurking for years on this forum and over time become a big follower of Shankar, vivek, Rahul, Singhaji, Jagan and everyone else.
I am aware that we generally discuss weapons and specs on this forum but would like to draw your attention to status of unarmed combat(UAC) level of our forces. A new perspective has to be brought in techniques and skills levels in urban unarmed combat tactics. Fighting & defending oneself against knifes, sticks and hand - guns though may not sound glamourous to many but it is an essential component of survival.

My first post, dont blast me people if i have crossed the line.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 06 Jul 2009 00:25

AmitR wrote:Where can I find the BR logos and other images used in this site. I tried to look in the images section but could not find any BR logo. Can someone please post a link for the logo image only.

Amit check this url

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/BR-Large.gif
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/BR-Small.gif

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Jul 2009 02:50

nitin, unarmed combat has always been a part of our armed forces. all the things you mention are taught to soldiers. search the archives, SF thread and you will find previous discussions on this topic.
I think videos of such training are also available on youtube.

nitinbhasin · Post by **nitinbhasin** » 06 Jul 2009 19:30

Rahul M wrote:nitin, unarmed combat has always been a part of our armed forces. all the things you mention are taught to soldiers. search the archives, SF thread and you will find previous discussions on this topic.
I think videos of such training are also available on youtube.

Rahul, definately unarmed combat has been with our forces since pre-independence times. In our forces we still follow karate system & wing chun style which leaves a lot to be desired in terms of modern day urban close quater combat situations for which these systems were not orginally designed nor practises been updated in a long time.
My heart truly pains when I see instructors soley focusing on no questions methodology to emphazise toughness, endurance and stamina and rarely on skills, techniques, comparison of techniques used by other forces and in depth explanation of science and reason for choosing a particular way.
World over differnt combative styles has been developed notably Chinese Sanshou, Soviet sambo and Systema, Israeli Kapap and Krav Maga, U.S.A Marine Corps Martial Arts Program to address these needs which i think should be incorporated in some way speedily in our forces.

And as all jingos say in the end just my 2 paise opinion.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 07 Jul 2009 20:07

Jagan wrote:
AmitR wrote:Where can I find the BR logos and other images used in this site. I tried to look in the images section but could not find any BR logo. Can someone please post a link for the logo image only.
Amit check this url

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/BR-Large.gif
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/BR-Small.gif

Jagan,

I sent a mail to the BR webmaster e-mail address. Please take a look into that. Thanks.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jul 2009 23:54

nitinbhasin wrote:In our forces we still follow karate system & wing chun style which leaves a lot to be desired in terms of modern day urban close quater combat situations for which these systems were not orginally designed nor practises been updated in a long time.

Actually thats not quite correct. UAC as Rahul M mentioned is different from the above and is actually an active part of the curriculum. Try to find some of the videos of the UAC sessions at Junior Leader's in Belgaum and you should be able to find all the stuff that you feel are missing - defending and attacking against knives, sticks, guns, barehands, you name and the IA infantryman trains for it

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 08 Jul 2009 12:39

Nitin, refer http://www.indianparachuteregiment.kar. ... aining.htm

rest assured, the needful is being done

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 08 Jul 2009 17:32

Hi Friends

I have registered recently after lurking around for a few years. I remember arguing big time on various Army forums on Orkut a couple of years ago and then feeling really proud of myself. One look at the level of discussions on BR and I knew then and there that this is a place where I will be better of being a 'guest'. Collected my guts recently to become a formal member.

Coming to the point, I cant figure out how to upload pics on the forum. I know somewhere someone had asked a similar question but I am unable to find it now. I wish to upload some khalis me-clicked photos I had taken at NDA POP some time back. My way of pay back to BR

Kindly help.
VB

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jul 2009 18:28

vik, currently we don't have the option of loading pics on the forum, you can use the tutorial given in the first post of the misc pics thread and give a link to your album here.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jul 2009 18:42

from the para regiment page :

which gun is it ?

Rishi M · Post by **Rishi M** » 08 Jul 2009 19:00

That looks like INSAS, from gun on right side we can see the trademark rifle holder over the translucent fiber magazine.

Rahul M wrote:from the para regiment page :
which gun is it ?

anand_sankar · Post by **anand_sankar** » 08 Jul 2009 19:11

Found this video of the Mig-29 OVT prototype at an unknown air show.

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1899

The llink also has pics of the RD-33MK TVC engine. I have seen this very same aircraft at Aero India '07, bloody hell the TVC gives the Mig-29 airframe a new dimension.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 08 Jul 2009 19:20

Rishi M wrote:That looks like INSAS, from gun on right side we can see the trademark rifle holder over the translucent fiber magazine.

The barrel seems to be too short for insas.

koti · Post by **koti** » 09 Jul 2009 22:30

Parijat Gaur wrote:
Rishi M wrote:That looks like INSAS, from gun on right side we can see the trademark rifle holder over the translucent fiber magazine.
The barrel seems to be too short for insas.

It is Insas indeed. It appears the barrel is cut off in the picture. You can confirm this by looking at the scope mount of the rifle.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Jul 2009 23:03

it does look like the INSAS but I'm surprised by the role it is used in.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 10 Jul 2009 09:25

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-ca ... ost1377701

Check out pic 4 from the top. Can anyone identify what force those guys are a part of?

koti · Post by **koti** » 10 Jul 2009 11:04

Maharastra ATS maybe.

The third guy from left looks funny by the way.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 11 Jul 2009 02:05

Do our Subs have a/cs or is it all humid and damp inside ?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 11 Jul 2009 09:11

^^ I have never been in one. But the interior of a submarine is a highly controlled environment. Its not just air conditioning, but complete climate control. Considering the lenghts of time spent underwater it is a necessity.