Serial Blasts in Mumbai

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sanjeevpunj
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

shiv wrote:
sanjeevpunj wrote:Yes, Shiv ji, Hindus organisations are deeply concerned about defending entire country, whereas some of the Muslim or Christian organisations may satisfy themselves with voicing concern of their 15% or 10% minority populations, which is natural,as they represent minorities. However they also should come up and condemn these acts.
Statements like "Muslim organizations did not condemn the act" is asking for, in fact demanding an equal equal. It is bad politics to make such a stupid statement constructed in that way even if it is 100% true. Any fool would then be able to scour the media and ask "Which Hindu organizations condemned the act?"
I cringe with horror at the fundamental rhetorical errors made by some people who let loose high volume support for Hindus. I think Madrassa and and Islamic education give a far better education in rhetoric and politics. Pointing that out is difficult because one immediately gets accused of being psec or islam pasand. Some arguments just make it dead easy for Islam pasand people to have a good ROTFL.
I found a statement by Abu Asim Azmi, MLA of Samjawadi Party,who has condemned the blast and asked the severe punishment for the culprits.
Simultaneously he suggested, “Investigative officers should not name any person, organization without any concrete evidence that might prove to be wrong later.

This is acceptable, and fair enough.

Meanwhile Nazar Mohammed, president of Jamaat-e-Islami Hind, Maharashtra, while condemning the blast said, “Whenever the relation between India and Pakistan begins to be cordial there is bound to be a terrorist attack.”

He is categorically stating that this is bound to happen whenever peace talks are progressing, indicates he probably knows who is behind it.

Gulzar Azmi, general secretary, Jamiatul Ulema Hind, who is fighting the case for 7/11 Mumbai serial blasts accused, also condemn the serial blast. “It’s not human to kill innocent and we share the grief of the victims,” Azmi said.Complaining about the role of media he said, “Contrary to the government view it’s the media which is speculating this time."
He also demanded that culprits, irrespective of cast and religion, must be punished.

This again is welcome and acceptable.

Maulana Mustaqeem Azmi, president of Jamiatul Ulema, Maharashtra and Maulana Mehmood Daryababdi general secretary of All India Ulema Council, apprehended that the blasts were aimed to divide people of India on communal lines.All leaders asked the people to be calm, maintain peace and help the victims in every possible way.

This is probably right, his fears are genuine it seems.

So much from Muslim Groups. What about the Christian thinktanks?

Sonia Gandhi condemned the dastardly act of terror in Mumbai and said such acts of cowardice would be dealt with appropriately.In a message, the Congress President expressed sympathy with the affected families and said, "Such acts of cowardice would be dealt with appropriately."

Good statement here, smacks of authority, and we can wait and see how the Congress deals with it.

The Church in India has today strongly condemned a series of blasts that rocked Mumbai in the western Indian state of Maharashtra, leaving at least 21 dead and 131 injured, according to officials.Condemning yesterday’s blasts, the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India said: “We express our heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families…. and we remember those who have been injured and are being treated at various hospitals of Mumbai.”The bishops urged all sections of society to work together to “thwart the nefarious designs” of criminal groups attempting to destroy social peace.

This is indeed very appropriate, I wholeheartedly respect this conclusion of the Catholic Bishop's conference.

In view of this, I feel I should not be too critical of non-Hindu groups, so I withdraw my statement posted earlier.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Chandragupta »

Wait and watch how P-secs rush after Justice Iyer like rabid dogs.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Chandragupta wrote:Wait and watch how P-secs rush after Justice Iyer like rabid dogs.
:eek: Did I make an error posting Justice Iyer's words then? However i felt his recommendations and suggestions are downright crucial and should be taken up by all state governments.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by chiragAS »

Self Deleted OT
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sumishi »

sanjeevpunj wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Wait and watch how P-secs rush after Justice Iyer like rabid dogs.
:eek: Did I make an error posting Justice Iyer's words then?...
Chandragupta's statement has nothing to do with u, baas.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

:D Relieved!
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by ashish raval »

Well, in which case we cannot rule out Digvijay and Congress's role too :evil:
Mumbai blasts: Can’t rule out hand of Hindu outfits, says Digvijay
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by nikhilarora »

Chandragupta wrote:Nobody wants to say this out aloud but until & unless Islam is completely cleansed out of the subcontinent, Indics would continue to die. Let's not naively assume that even a majority of 250 million Indian muslims have burning patriotism inside their hearts. Not saying rest 900 million Hindus are ideal citizens but they do will never have an ideological compulsion to attack their own country & people.
How do you do exactly this CLEANSING of Islam from the subcontinent?? And how exactly do you defend that ISLAM should be cleansed because INDICS are dieing because of them??
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Let us move on.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by nikhilarora »

ashish raval wrote:Well, in which case we cannot rule out Digvijay and Congress's role too :evil:
Mumbai blasts: Can’t rule out hand of Hindu outfits, says Digvijay
Digvijay Singh is a christian so he thinks that the Hindu Terror group doesn't include him. He is as sacred as a holy cow, or holy cross whatever!!!

hello ! why does diggy singh have to be a christian to be a problem for India ? how is him being christian (or not) a problem in the first place ?
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by rajanb »

^^ The moment we base any comment/argument on religious lines we are letting ourselves down.

It was in the interests of the British and now our politicians to divide our country on religious, community, caste etc. banks.

Religion is a personal issue.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Chandragupta »

nikhilarora wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Nobody wants to say this out aloud but until & unless Islam is completely cleansed out of the subcontinent, Indics would continue to die. Let's not naively assume that even a majority of 250 million Indian muslims have burning patriotism inside their hearts. Not saying rest 900 million Hindus are ideal citizens but they do will never have an ideological compulsion to attack their own country & people.
How do you do exactly this CLEANSING of Islam from the subcontinent?? And how exactly do you defend that ISLAM should be cleansed because INDICS are dieing because of them??
Relax. No need to go hyper. I am not a piskology doctor who can twist his words around & still make his point without making it. I am putting in black & white because that's the only way I know. You folks can keep on ignoring the 800lb gorilla in the room for all I care. The way I see it, these people wouldn't have died if there was no Pakistan. There would be no Pakistan if a considerable portion of Indians did not want a separate state. This considerable number of Indians would not have wanted a separate state if they were not Muslims & if they could share the air they breath with the native dirty kafirs. The fact that these people were Indian Muslims some 60 odd years back must not be ignored. In 1857, I am sure there was no dearth of people believing in joint Hindu Muslim harmony & brotherhood and living happily ever after throwing the British out. It took less than 100 years for that to come crashing down.

Sp don't pounce on me for saying this boss, you wait 25 years, we both would be here & we will both see how everything turns out.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by suryag »

Btw i often find two types of Hindus, the first type being overtly anti-islamic and the second being the more chanakian types who simply mask their hatred for islam and propagate strategies to neutralise them or would advocate limited co-existence as way of continuing with nation building
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

We must essentially set individual differences (based on religion) aside, and work for building a great India, whatever the world calls it later on, secular,harmonious co-existence model, whatever, doesn't matter more than what we achieve -an India that is peaceful,strong,stable,and free from ignorance.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by RajeshA »

suryag wrote:Btw i often find two types of Hindus, the first type being overtly anti-islamic and the second being the more chanakian types who simply mask their hatred for islam and propagate strategies to neutralise them or would advocate limited co-existence as way of continuing with nation building
And then there are Islamism Apologist Hindus (IAH) like Diggy.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by suryag »

rajeshaji i dont consider him hindu, basically he will sell anything to curry favours and be a minister/cm
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by nikhilarora »

suryag wrote:Btw i often find two types of Hindus, the first type being overtly anti-islamic and the second being the more chanakian types who simply mask their hatred for islam and propagate strategies to neutralise them or would advocate limited co-existence as way of continuing with nation building
As a last word, its very easy to blame a particular community. What is not so easy is to seek a solution to it other than the ultimate wipe them out theory! Please prove me wrong! Is wiping out the whole muslim population going to solve our problems? or per say Pakistan? Why does the common man have to suffer for it? Even then the muslims can say that they are greater in number than the Hindus, so wipe them out! No hindus, no one to terrorise, problem solved. In having this mindset, I believe we will become like the Jihadists only, either accept us as gods or we give you a thousand cuts.

Why are we overlooking other facts? Even the christians were involved in Purulia arms drop, so wipe them out too! Infact wipe out everyone who challenges us! Why not have the same bravado against the chinese too then? Can someone tell me why the govt inorder to get vote banks recognised, propagated and opened up more madrassas when they were clearly breeding ground of Islamic fundamentalism. Most of the muslim people in India or elsewhere are uneducated. They can be easily influenced in Jihad or whatever and what has the govt done to ensure that they are educated rather than opening more Madrassas! If you see the poor uneducated hindus can also be easily influenced by propaganda and brought to violence as has been done by political parties. Cannot the govt. atleast be proactive and put the internal security in order so that such incidents can be restricted and don't occur again under strict vigil?? Tell me which one is easier?? Pray, give it a thought! Its like for pest control, bring down the house!
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by RajeshA »

RajeshA wrote:
suryag wrote:Btw i often find two types of Hindus, the first type being overtly anti-islamic and the second being the more chanakian types who simply mask their hatred for islam and propagate strategies to neutralise them or would advocate limited co-existence as way of continuing with nation building
And then there are Islamism Apologist Hindus (IAH) like Diggy.
suryag wrote:rajeshaji i dont consider him hindu, basically he will sell anything to curry favours and be a minister/cm
Perhaps one can then call him "Islamism Apologist with Hindu sounding Name" (IAHSN)!
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sumishi »

Chandragupta wrote: Relax. No need to go hyper. I am not a piskology doctor who can twist his words around & still make his point without making it. I am putting in black & white because that's the only way I know. You folks can keep on ignoring the 800lb gorilla in the room for all I care. The way I see it, these people wouldn't have died if there was no Pakistan. There would be no Pakistan if a considerable portion of Indians did not want a separate state. This considerable number of Indians would not have wanted a separate state if they were not Muslims & if they could share the air they breath with the native dirty kafirs. The fact that these people were Indian Muslims some 60 odd years back must not be ignored. In 1857, I am sure there was no dearth of people believing in joint Hindu Muslim harmony & brotherhood and living happily ever after throwing the British out. It took less than 100 years for that to come crashing down.
...
It was not the "want" of a considerable number of muslims -- it was the result of machinations of Jinnah with the British supporting the creation of Pakistan from a strategic perspective (Read "The Untold Story of Partition" by Narendra Singh Sarila) in the Great Game against the USSR.
Later, US played the same game by setting up the Islamic jihadis in Afghanistan against the USSR
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Chandragupta »

sumishi wrote:
Chandragupta wrote: Relax. No need to go hyper. I am not a piskology doctor who can twist his words around & still make his point without making it. I am putting in black & white because that's the only way I know. You folks can keep on ignoring the 800lb gorilla in the room for all I care. The way I see it, these people wouldn't have died if there was no Pakistan. There would be no Pakistan if a considerable portion of Indians did not want a separate state. This considerable number of Indians would not have wanted a separate state if they were not Muslims & if they could share the air they breath with the native dirty kafirs. The fact that these people were Indian Muslims some 60 odd years back must not be ignored. In 1857, I am sure there was no dearth of people believing in joint Hindu Muslim harmony & brotherhood and living happily ever after throwing the British out. It took less than 100 years for that to come crashing down.
...
It was not the "want" of a considerable number of muslims -- it was the result of machinations of Jinnah with the British supporting the creation of Pakistan from a strategic perspective (Read "The Untold Story of Partition" by Narendra Singh Sarila) in the Great Game against the USSR.
Later, US played the same game by setting up the Islamic jihadis in Afghanistan against the USSR
I am least concerned about games & great games. Jinnah or the British did not hold Indian Muslims by the scruff of their necks & told them to vote for Muslim League in 1946. They did not physically guide Indian Muslims to massacre their Hindu & Sikh neighbours on Direct Action Day, Calcutta. They also did not tell Indian Muslims to wipe out the poor Hindus & Sikhs who were unfortunate enough to be left behind in the Land of the Pure. So what great game boss?
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Chandragupta »

sanjeevpunj wrote:We must essentially set individual differences (based on religion) aside, and work for building a great India, whatever the world calls it later on, secular,harmonious co-existence model, whatever, doesn't matter more than what we achieve -an India that is peaceful,strong,stable,and free from ignorance.
No offence, sanjeev guru but :rotfl:
nikhilarora wrote: If you see the poor uneducated hindus can also be easily influenced by propaganda and brought to violence as has been done by political parties. Cannot the govt. atleast be proactive and put the internal security in order so that such incidents can be restricted and don't occur again under strict vigil?? Tell me which one is easier?? Pray, give it a thought! Its like for pest control, bring down the house!
Please give me one instance where poor uneducated Hindus went to a foreign country, strapped themselves with C4, armed with AK 47s, killed hundreds of innocent people, shouting 'Jai Bajrang Bali'' all the time & deriving justification from the Bhagwad Geeta & the Vedas. Please don't just post bull.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by nikhilarora »

Chandragupta wrote:Please give me one instance where poor uneducated Hindus went to a foreign country, strapped themselves with C4, armed with AK 47s, killed hundreds of innocent people, shouting 'Jai Bajrang Bali'' all the time & deriving justification from the Bhagwad Geeta & the Vedas. Please don't just post bull.
With all due respect, you didn't get my point! My agenda was not that poor Hindus perform terrorism by strapping themselves with bombs. They don't and they never will. My point was it is easy for uneducated people to get influenced by propaganda. And I meant political violence within India and not terrorism. Please comprehend the facts and then comment. Secondly, I don't think any of it justifies wiping out the whole ISLAM population. PERIOD.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by vera_k »

IMO, the problem lies in the fact that Mumbai and by extension Maharashtra does not have control of its borders. If the city or state spent money building a fence and getting the police a couple hundred modern patrol boats, it will be able to control the border effectively, and let in only those who hold trusted identification, Indian or foreign. This might also pacify fellows like Raj, since all entrants will go through security screening.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Chandragupta »

nikhilarora wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Please give me one instance where poor uneducated Hindus went to a foreign country, strapped themselves with C4, armed with AK 47s, killed hundreds of innocent people, shouting 'Jai Bajrang Bali'' all the time & deriving justification from the Bhagwad Geeta & the Vedas. Please don't just post bull.
With all due respect, you didn't get my point! My agenda was not that poor Hindus perform terrorism by strapping themselves with bombs. They don't and they never will. My point was it is easy for uneducated people to get influenced by propaganda. And I meant political violence within India and not terrorism. Please comprehend the facts and then comment. Secondly, I don't think any of it justifies wiping out the whole ISLAM population. PERIOD.
India does not faces political violence, it faces religious & ideological terrorism, so your point is moot. You tell me why a poor Muslim can be brainwashed into killing hundreds by quoting the holy pook while a poor Hindu cannot. To influence people with propaganda, you need a ready foundation. I do not understand why it is so hard to accept.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by abhishek_sharma »

ATS to quiz India Mujahideen members in Karnataka, Gujarat
Widening its probe into Wednesday's serial bombings, Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorist Squad is likely to question suspected Indian Mujahideen members lodged in Karnataka and Gujarat jails and has sought the assistance of Kolkata Police in tracking possible suspects.

"A police team from Karnataka has come to Mumbai to help us. An ATS team from Maharashtra will also go to Karnataka and Ahmedabad to question the IM members lodged in the jails there," said a police official.

The ATS is likely to grill suspected IM member Danish Riyaz in Ahmedabad who had been arrested there in connection with the 2008 serial blasts in Gujarat.

In Karnataka, police will also question those who are believed to have an association with family members of Riyaz and Iqbal Bhatkal, the founder members of Indian Mujahideen.

The ATS has also sought assistance from Kolkata Police asking them to verify if any suspects had travelled to Mumbai from that city and subsequently went underground after the blasts, as part of its probe into the triple bombings in Zaveri Bazar, Opera House and Dadar that left 19 people dead and injured over 130.

The ATS has questioned the owner of a bike, which was found very close to the blast site in Zaveri Bazar here, to put together the sequence of events on July 13.

The maroon colour Honda Activa bearing number MH-01-AS 718 was one of the bikes which was very close to the blast site and was partially destroyed in the bombings.

The bike belongs to one Ashok Jain who lives in Nagpada area.

Ashok's nephew Aniket Jain, whose father owns a jewellery shop in Zaveri Bazar, said his uncle had parked the bike close to the blast site at around 3 pm on Wednesday while the blasts occurred at around 6:55 pm.

"ATS had called Ashok to its office at Nagpada yesterday with all the papers pertaining to the bike," said Aniket.

The insurance of the bike had expired two months ago. "We did not even realise that the insurance has expired," he said.

The front portion of the bike was completely destroyed in the blasts and the vehicle is presently in the custody of the police. Police suspect that the blasts were triggered with the use of IED kept in an abandoned umbrella, on one of the bikes there.

Meanwhile, one of the victims of the blasts today died in a city hospital, taking the death toll in the bombings to 19.

Babulal Das, 42, who was admitted to Saifee Hospital after the blast at Opera House, died around 3am.

Twenty people, who were seriously injured in the bombings, are being treated at various hospitals in the city.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by harbans »

India and the world will at some level have to deal and address Literal Islam. Literal Islam is at odds with pluralist, secular setups. No pluralist and secular type setup can forever exist with literal Islam as the latter is meant to subsume the former. This thing about 'wiping out Muslims' is not applicable as wiping out Germans was not required to wipe out Nazism. At the doctrinal levels Islams conflict with pluralist, democratic and secular societies like India will always exist. Somewhere at the doctrinal level the conflict will have to be dealt with in an open and honest manner. In no way this implies all Muslims are evil or inclined to violence. But many who are swayed by the literal version are. And many who are not, remain loyal and peace abiding citizens of this and other countries.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sum »

^^ All the reports of the IM huntdown seems to indicate that all the heavy lifting seems to have been done by Gujarat and MP police who seemed to have swooped onto these guys in multiple states ( only exception being the Batla house encounter by the Delhi police)...

Is it that only the Guj and MP police are interested in smashing IM or has center designated these police guys to go after them?
Of course, the MP and Guj police brass can be conveniently left to fend for themselves if some HR-wallahs etc start their campaigns against harassing minorities since they can be shown to be acting under orders of "communal/fascist " BJP govt( and not GoI) like what happened on Ishrat case..
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Chandragupta wrote:
sanjeevpunj wrote:We must essentially set individual differences (based on religion) aside, and work for building a great India, whatever the world calls it later on, secular,harmonious co-existence model, whatever, doesn't matter more than what we achieve -an India that is peaceful,strong,stable,and free from ignorance.
No offence, sanjeev guru but :rotfl:
If that statement I made can make you :rotfl: roll over the floor and laugh, I begin to wonder .........either you sure must be having a good day today, and this triggered your funny bone or something was scratching you and you needed the roll on the floor.Anyway I still stand by what I said, to build a strong India, the first step is to shed individual differences, and get cracking on doing the needful. 8)
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by niran »

to sum the happenstance at D3+
20 officially dead approximately 200 injured with 21 in serious condition 28 have had limb amputations
i.e. maimed for life they will feel it was better to have died than suffering the life they are going to face
only credible lead was the theft of 35 detonators by Naxasl and sold to Bombay Mafioso this was what
Midday journo the late Dey was supposedly to pardafash (sorry no better English word ) he was silenced.
other than this lead everything else is directionless.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

^^^That seems to clearly indicate that Dey was suspecting something fishy going on,and was silenced.It is really high time we dealt summarily with Naxals/Maos and secure each and every weapon they have,before they start striking deals with the IMs. It appears to me now that terrorism in India is being sponsored cooperatively by Pakistan and China through their respective proxies,and they keep trying to catch us off guard whenever we can, and they have gotten more aggressive in their cooperation.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Arjun »

I recollect somebody on this board had ranted about the tendency to blame 'Catholic ladies' and Muslims for the problems of terrorism in India.

Regarding the latter, I fully share the concern. One needs to be careful about distinguishing the majority of peaceful Muslims from the minority of Islamists who believe in a literal version of Islam.

As for the former - while being respectful of India's Catholic community in general, a specific Catholic lady has exhibited no compunction in having her minions make outrageous claims regarding the Mumbai blasts. While Mumbai tries to recover yet again from this tragedy, her party believes it is premature to blame Pakistan but not premature to blame the RSS. I believe this outrage confers legitimacy on any and every CT that looks into Congress and Sonia having engineered the Mumbai blasts to escape from her other scams.

Bottomline- remember that blaming Muslims is not kosher, but blaming a certain Catholic lady and her party for the blasts is very much kosher.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Whenever such events occur, two processes begin on the national level.
1.A process of deduction based on press info,debates and and info sharing on a national scale.
2.A Process of politics aimed at posturing and elevating the position of power of the current government.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by rajanb »

Arjun wrote:
I recollect somebody on this board had ranted about the tendency to blame 'Catholic ladies' and Muslims for the problems of terrorism in India.

Regarding the latter, I fully share the concern. One needs to be careful about distinguishing the majority of peaceful Muslims from the minority of Islamists who believe in a literal version of Islam.

As for the former - while being respectful of India's Catholic community in general, a specific Catholic lady has exhibited no compunction in having her minions make outrageous claims regarding the Mumbai blasts. While Mumbai tries to recover yet again from this tragedy, her party believes it is premature to blame Pakistan but not premature to blame the RSS. I believe this outrage confers legitimacy on any and every CT that looks into Congress and Sonia having engineered the Mumbai blasts to escape from her other scams.

Bottomline- remember that blaming Muslims is not kosher, but blaming a certain Catholic lady and her party for the blasts is very much kosher.
I think blaming politicians who are responsible for the incidents from Kashmir to Kandahar to Mumbai is relevant. Besides, it will halp us put across to the whole political class that they are not masters and currently only voted representatives who get our votes and then don't carry out their responsibility of representing us. :twisted:
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Chandragupta »

sanjeevpunj wrote: If that statement I made can make you :rotfl: roll over the floor and laugh, I begin to wonder .........either you sure must be having a good day today, and this triggered your funny bone or something was scratching you and you needed the roll on the floor.Anyway I still stand by what I said, to build a strong India, the first step is to shed individual differences, and get cracking on doing the needful. 8)
Nothing wrong with the statement you made. I find it amusing because it is akin to preaching to the choir. You don't need to tell this to majority of the people of this country who have by choice made this nation secular & democratic and the people who do need to internalize this will take it from one ear, throw it out of the other & then shout "***** khatre me hai".
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Chandragupta ji, :) One has to say what one wants with conviction.Thanks for clarifying.Indeed this is very basic stuff, all involved with nation building are fed with it, and I perhaps sould like a rustic die-hard preacher too.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by brihaspati »

suryag wrote:Btw i often find two types of Hindus, the first type being overtly anti-islamic and the second being the more chanakian types who simply mask their hatred for islam and propagate strategies to neutralise them or would advocate limited co-existence as way of continuing with nation building
There is a third type which is intensely in love with Islamism or admires it for qualities it misses in its own origins - ruthless extraction of biological desires, and exercise of absolute power. These will try to spin for so-called interfaith dialogue and === onlee, so that their chosen idol survives one day to expand and grasp all.
brihaspati
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by brihaspati »

harbans wrote:India and the world will at some level have to deal and address Literal Islam. Literal Islam is at odds with pluralist, secular setups. No pluralist and secular type setup can forever exist with literal Islam as the latter is meant to subsume the former. This thing about 'wiping out Muslims' is not applicable as wiping out Germans was not required to wipe out Nazism. At the doctrinal levels Islams conflict with pluralist, democratic and secular societies like India will always exist. Somewhere at the doctrinal level the conflict will have to be dealt with in an open and honest manner. In no way this implies all Muslims are evil or inclined to violence. But many who are swayed by the literal version are. And many who are not, remain loyal and peace abiding citizens of this and other countries.
The fundamental basis of this faiths is literalism. It cannot go out of literalism and preserve itself. Christianity allowed this to happen and it is dying in many different ways. All the strength comes from literal acceptance of historical claims and texts. Any deviation from the texts ultimately weaken the faith system. So those you are suggesting are "not literal" ultimately get marginalized and are in impossible situations. The reason in spite of so many "secular" non-literal IM's being present around the time or the Partition - they could do nothing or did not do anything or were "temporarily" swayed by the "literalists" - when the call came to loot. massacre and rape the kaffir. Opposite happened within the other side which divided itself into two and one faction opposed vehemently and fought with full determination and desire for revenge in the other side. [Of course it helped that those who were most active in preventing revenge from the "Hindu" side had their own kith and kin well protected! Imagine Indira being molested and Loony of the Loony-Liaquat pact preaching non-retaliation!]

Mumbai will continue to suffer for many reasons. I was expecting "policy-interventionists" to suggest some policy that would prevent everything! All I see is "more investments", more "development" and "political solution" [read appeasement] to essentially what is Islams's internal problem of not being able to accept not being in absolute state power.

If it is suggested that Mumbai being financial "capital" is the main attraction for Jihadi love, then should not something have been done to distribute financial activity and decentralize it in other parts of the country? I know all the yadda yadda logic of "locational" precedence/continuity/investor confidence etc will be brought up. But frankly, nowadays when flows are managed electronically - what is the great difficulty in spreading the dough processing bakery around the country?

Frankly speaking - drying up the juice that sustains the cross gulf-cross Indus theo-criminal networks - should be a "policy" initiative isnt it?
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by Mort Walker »

After watching the reaction of various government officials, the one thing that becomes eminently clear is that the Central Government of India and the State Government of Maharashtra does not care if its citizens are slaughtered like pigs. As long as these terrorists events do not affect the politicos (the netas) nothing will be done and people will continue to be slaughtered indiscriminately. Two things can be done. Term limits for all politicians at the center and state to be no more than 10 years. After a politician leaves office, they are no longer given any security and if someone holds no political office, they get no security regardless if they are party president or industry captain. The netas must feel the pain.
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Post by vera_k »

That will not work if local or national politicians are complicit in these attacks. They will always be tipped off to avoid certain areas ahead of time. That is why I think raising the costs for the government treasury would be a more effective way to address the problem.
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