Indian Roads Thread

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Jul 2015 01:58

chaanakya saar,

I think there are 2 things that are being mixed up here.

- Illegal driving.
- Rash/Poor driving.

Illegal driving is criminally liable in court of law. Driving 140kmph in 45 kmph zone is illegal.

Rash/Poor driving is a misdemeanor. Entering the lane without judging vehicle velocity is a misdemeanor at best. One is not criminally liable for it. It is an error in judgment no matter how much you curse the fellow. In fact my opinion is no one in the world can judge a vehicle approaching directly @ 140 kmph. It is beyond human capacity. The moment the illegal act was committed the misdemeanor is erased.

Driving so fast that a sudden appearing vehicle causes an accident is your mistake. Sudden things happen all the time. People swerve to avoid, cow, chicken, person, etc. There is vehicle failure, rocks tumbling, thunder storms, etc. It is your responsibility to understand what the safe speed is on that road. Just because 80 kmph is posted does not make it safe to drive at that speed irrespective. Though since you are below the speed limit this too would be a misdemeanor.

I have a lot of difficulty getting folks in India to understand this. The Mercedes is very much at fault and liable, I don't think any part of blame now attaches to the Alto.
------------------------------

Personally I don't know a single road in India that is designed properly for even 120 kmph driving. Forget 200kmph. Is there such road in the world outside Germany?

At 120 kmph you are expected to have ~ 1kmph clear sightlines and clear right of way. If you do not you should not be driving at that speed. I think most highways, even the new ones, are not access controlled, this immediately reduces safe operating speeds to 50 mph or about 80 kmph. This is max when everything thing is clear. On top of that the car is approaching an uncontrolled intersection, speed should immediately drop to 50 kmph max. The Police has posted 45 kmph, which in my estimation is the correct speed limit for that intersection. Remember this was night time in a poorly lit area. Even more caution would be advised. Just because everyone drives faster does not make it a legal action. Again rules change for access controlled expressways.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 09 Jul 2015 02:29

Theo_Fidel wrote:Personally I don't know a single road in India that is designed properly for even 120 kmph driving. Forget 200kmph. Is there such road in the world outside Germany?

Theo sir, apart from the various expressways: MPE, Hyd ORR etc, you can easily cross 120 kmph in most stretches of the National Highways provided if they are not under maintenance. It's just that you need to slow down when you see an intersection and use better judgement in such areas.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 09 Jul 2015 02:49

Karthik S wrote: Theo sir, apart from the various expressways: MPE, Hyd ORR etc, you can easily cross 120 kmph in most stretches of the National Highways provided if they are not under maintenance. It's just that you need to slow down when you see an intersection and use better judgement in such areas.

The problem is not in reaching 120kph. Even on the horrible 2-lane Mumbai-Goa road, I've seen cars driving in excess of 100kph whenever traffic is less. The problem is in being able to safely drive at 120kph. That means not having to rely on superhuman reflexes to avoid cars in uncontrolled intersections, slow moving scooters and rickshaws, bicycles cows, etc. Unless you are on an access controlled expressway (which are almost non-existent in India) you cannot drive safely at 120kph even if the traffic is low enough to reach that speed.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 09 Jul 2015 03:02

Hyderabad ORR is TFTA quality onlee. Systemic issues are thru but behavioral issues still persists.
As exits are too far apart some folks try to intercede wrong way (rare) but speeding is huge issue. Azharudding, once the betting aid in criket who also won mafia provided sangeeta bijlani as bed partner, gifted an imported bike to his 19 year old son. This guy wanted to show his machogiri on Hyd ORR and got killed while testing his bikes/roads/his own limits.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Jul 2015 06:13

Karthik S wrote:Theo sir, apart from the various expressways: MPE, Hyd ORR etc, you can easily cross 120 kmph in most stretches of the National Highways provided if they are not under maintenance. It's just that you need to slow down when you see an intersection and use better judgement in such areas.

I havn't been on the ORR but was on MPE a couple of years ago and it is designed for 80 kmph speeds and that is what is posted on the road. The camber and radius of the curves and the lack of fall protection on the hillsides alone forced me tell my driver to slow to 80 kmph. He made a sour face and complied but soon was going at a wild 130 kmph! And I had to tell him to slow down again. Looking at ORR, neither is it designed for 120 kmph. Sure you can hit 120 kmph on them but you are taking your life in your hands.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 09 Jul 2015 06:35

If cattle and people on bicycles and foot have access to highways, then they should be rated for no more than 45kmph, period. Even this can be deadly when the slow meet the fast ones head on...but at least there is enough time for the reflexes to kick in and avert an accident.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 09 Jul 2015 07:55

Bade, that's neither practical nor reasonable speed limit for a country's highways, that's less than half the speed of most countries' highways.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jul 2015 08:21

people do not slow down at these unmanned intersections. we have all seen the sickening crashes compilation video a few pages ago. something similar happened here as the alto was trying to cross and misjudged the merc's speed and the merc driver saw it too late.

people even jump red lights with impunity and pay the price..big BMTC buses do it in blr, in CBD, in the day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgKfUu1PPiI

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 09 Jul 2015 08:30

Traffic police must take accountability and enforce traffic rules. To deter them making deals with violators and enriching themselves, they must be given aggressive quota's on fines to self fund part of their budget . No other solution will work if this part of problem isn't fixed.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Jul 2015 10:14

I cant agree with some NRi posts here saying that joing merging a highway casually without looking is Misdemenour.

Merc doing 140Kph is definitely criminal, these drivers always tend over speed, cover distance fast and do not slow down in anticipation. There is no concept of braking distance. Years ago my family was buying a ford Icon and was just 20 something, the Sales guys were trying to dismiss me while the family was making the decision. I asked them what was the 100-0 braking distance and they answered 8ft, when I countered that illogical it was sprilaling into an argument- these guys actually thought you could stop a car 100-0 in 8 feet?

But that does not mean where many just join take turns thinking they have won if they force the other man to brake is correct. Sometimes causually cars come into Highways take turns at 20Kph with no regard for vehicles on the Highway.

I notice for commercial drivers in many instances the sense of victory by making the other guy slow down is important.

niran · Post by **niran** » 09 Jul 2015 10:32

Aditya_V wrote: I notice for commercial drivers in many instances the sense of victory by making the other guy slow down is important.

there is a word "inferiority complex" for it.

at the end point of any merge there is a series of broad rectangular white paint patches the merging driver is supposed to slow down or stop 50 cm(half a meter) before the line and look for oncoming traffic then merge not merge at 20kmph plus speed. merc was over speeding at 140kmph but it was running straight line not turning or merging hence a fine but the alto was over speeding while merging thereby overstepping on the right of way which was with the vehicle traveling straight and caused a death and enormous amount of damage so he should be charged with criminal negligence same as salmon khan.

apart from the above alto was over loaded with 5 adults and 2 kids traveling no child seat for the kids and no seat belt for adults.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jul 2015 11:15

i have seen only long haul goods trucks drive safely here. everything else is a shade of bad to worse.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 09 Jul 2015 14:44

Govt's hybrid annuity model paves way for road projects

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 020_1.html

- In India, road projects are awarded via one of the three models: Build-Operate-Transfer (BOT)-Annuity, BOT-Toll, and engineering, procurement and construction (EPC)
- The HAM is a mix of engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) and build-operate-transfer (BOT) formats, with the government and the private companies sharing the total project cost in the ratio of 40:60 respectively
- This new model will reduce financial burden on the concessionaire during project implementation phase. Compared to EPC projects, the shift to HAM would also ease cash flow pressure on the NHAI

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 Jul 2015 17:34

Theo_Fidel wrote:chaanakya saar,

I think there are 2 things that are being mixed up here.

- Illegal driving.
- Rash/Poor driving.

Illegal driving is criminally liable in court of law. Driving 140kmph in 45 kmph zone is illegal.

Rash/Poor driving is a misdemeanor. Entering the lane without judging vehicle velocity is a misdemeanor at best. One is not criminally liable for it. It is an error in judgment no matter how much you curse the fellow. In fact my opinion is no one in the world can judge a vehicle approaching directly @ 140 kmph. It is beyond human capacity. The moment the illegal act was committed the misdemeanor is erased.

Driving so fast that a sudden appearing vehicle causes an accident is your mistake. Sudden things happen all the time. People swerve to avoid, cow, chicken, person, etc. There is vehicle failure, rocks tumbling, thunder storms, etc. It is your responsibility to understand what the safe speed is on that road. Just because 80 kmph is posted does not make it safe to drive at that speed irrespective. Though since you are below the speed limit this too would be a misdemeanor.

I have a lot of difficulty getting folks in India to understand this. The Mercedes is very much at fault and liable, I don't think any part of blame now attaches to the Alto.
------------------------------

Personally I don't know a single road in India that is designed properly for even 120 kmph driving. Forget 200kmph. Is there such road in the world outside Germany?

At 120 kmph you are expected to have ~ 1kmph clear sightlines and clear right of way. If you do not you should not be driving at that speed. I think most highways, even the new ones, are not access controlled, this immediately reduces safe operating speeds to 50 mph or about 80 kmph. This is max when everything thing is clear. On top of that the car is approaching an uncontrolled intersection, speed should immediately drop to 50 kmph max. The Police has posted 45 kmph, which in my estimation is the correct speed limit for that intersection. Remember this was night time in a poorly lit area. Even more caution would be advised. Just because everyone drives faster does not make it a legal action. Again rules change for access controlled expressways.

No Saar Please.

Couldn't agree with you more.

I also believe Merc was at fault. If there was gap in the road then Alto's fault was at the most not being cautious enough. One of the driver, who trained me in Willeys Jeep , told me to take care of one's own mistake as well as other's possible mistakes and drive like a Yogi without losing temper and always be in control of vehicle.That was before I went to formal Training School.

One needs to drive at legal limit. But my point was also that if road surface permit speeds in excess of legal limit then it should be designed for Max speed.

One incident comes to my mind. National Damad's sister and family were traveling on the same Delhi jaipur Highway at speed in excess of 140 KMPH and it hit a road bump in Alwar, tyre burst. His sister and another woman died in that vehicle crash. No other vehicle was involved in that crash though.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 Jul 2015 17:47

niran wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: I notice for commercial drivers in many instances the sense of victory by making the other guy slow down is important.
there is a word "inferiority complex" for it.

at the end point of any merge there is a series of broad rectangular white paint patches the merging driver is supposed to slow down or stop 50 cm(half a meter) before the line and look for oncoming traffic then merge not merge at 20kmph plus speed. merc was over speeding at 140kmph but it was running straight line not turning or merging hence a fine but the alto was over speeding while merging thereby overstepping on the right of way which was with the vehicle traveling straight and caused a death and enormous amount of damage so he should be charged with criminal negligence same as salmon khan.

apart from the above alto was over loaded with 5 adults and 2 kids traveling no child seat for the kids and no seat belt for adults.

From the statement of Alto driver, he stopped and waited for other vehicles to pass before turning right into the lane. I don't think Alto would have been speeding. He was not cautious enough and must have been looking his right and did not check his left while moving into the lane. Merc doing 140 is definitely illegal.

In India almost 99.99% would be guilty of overloading cars and not using child seat or seat belts.Does not give an excuse to drive at 140 though.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Jul 2015 20:57

chaanakya wrote:One needs to drive at legal limit. But my point was also that if road surface permit speeds in excess of legal limit then it should be designed for Max speed.

Saar, I don't entirely disagree. If you want to do 120 kmph then the road should be designed for it, else it becomes a meat grinder. The faster you run through it the more meat you will grind. All I'm saying at present the road is not designed for 120kmph, for that matter even 80 kmph is unsafe on it.

When a vehicle is going at 140 kmph there is no safe way to enter that intersection. Look at where the curve is from the intersection. Inexperienced India drivers have so much difficulty understanding this. A vehicle merging at 20-30 kmph will take approximately 12-15 seconds to negotiate the 2 lanes and merge on the far side. Then another 12-15 seconds to accelerate to speed. A car travelling at 140 kmph will travel ~400 m in that time. Looking at the curve 300 m up the road the Mercedes would not even have been visible when the Alto entered the road. How in heavens name is one supposed to judge speed of vehicle on cannot see. These are physical laws that one is violating.

There are roads here in my state that you can easily do 200 mph on. In fact in my younger days, a couple of times I hit 150 mph just to see what my car could do. The road is arrow straight and many times has nil traffic. At one time there was a movement in USA to do away with speed limits, kinda like Germany. When they experimented in a couple of states the fatality rate spiraled out of control. Even simple run of the road accidents resulted in all occupants dead, even with seat belts. Since then the max speed has been wrestled down to ~120kmph and the death rate has dropped dramatically.

Unfortunately this seems to be a lesson India is bound and determined to learn the hard way. I have the worst difficulty trying to get through to drivers in India.

Aditya_V wrote:I cant agree with some NRi posts here saying that joing merging a highway casually without looking is Misdemenour.

You may disagree but these are the rules of the road. In an uncontrolled intersection, the vehicle that gets there first has right of way, even to cross. Even if you are on the main road it is your responsibility to slow down and negotiate the crossing safely. The yield sign says that one has to yield to a vehicle already in the crossing. Crossings in India typically say 30-40-45 kmph. At that speed there should be no danger. Of course the chaos in India means that there is way too much traffic at the crossing so people constantly try to sneak across. Too much traffic means it is time for a flyover or a traffic light.

If you want to go faster, control the crossing. Put a signal light there, come to a full stop or time the lights, or build a proper flyover that controls access and safe merging of traffic. The traffic police says 45 kmph for that crossing and I believe them. At 45 kmph there would have been no accident at all, no matter what the Alto fellow did. That is the purpose of traffic rules.

Thing to remember is that even the wild, organic chaos of randomly crossing vehicles on Indian streets is safe at the correct speed. At similar to 20 kmph the wild weaving and turning results in lots of fender benders but few casualties and somehow the traffic actually flows. The same cannot be executed at 80 kmph and certainly not at 140 kmph.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 09 Jul 2015 21:12

Singha wrote:i have seen only long haul goods trucks drive safely here. everything else is a shade of bad to worse.

And that is only because the trucks don't have the power to be driven faster. If the trucks had engines like the TFTA ones in khanland do you would see them being driven around like the Volvo buses are. Can't even imagine the carnage that would happen then.

The problem in India is that after decades of driving poorly powered cars people have suddenly gotten access to cars (and buses) that can easily be driven at very high speeds and a few highways where it is at least possible to reach those speeds (though not safely), all in the past decade or so. Naturally people feel liberated and try to make the most of it, severely compromising safety in the process.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 10 Jul 2015 02:26

Govt's hybrid annuity model paves way for road projects

The National Highways Authority of India (NHAI) is all set to debut the hybrid annuity model (HAM) for award of highway projects by November this year. Taking a step in this direction, the NHAI has formulated a model concession agreement (MCA) under the new model and sent it to the ministry of road transport and highways for approval.

The government is looking at awarding 576 km of national highway projects under the new model in the current financial year for which detailed project reports (DPRs) have been prepared.

For 2015-16, the NHAI has identified 12 road projects, entailing an investment of Rs 15,905 crore and spanning Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh, Jharkhand and Maharashtra. Further, for 2016-17, the government has identified 15 road projects - at a total length of 1,105 km - and entailing an investment of Rs 12,185 crore.

The HAM is a mix of engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) and build-operate-transfer (BOT) formats, with the government and the private companies sharing the total project cost in the ratio of 40:60 respectively. The government also shoulders the responsibility of revenue collection. The NHAI will collect toll and refund the amount in instalments over a period of 10 years in 20 equated instalments.

This new model will reduce financial burden on the concessionaire during project implementation phase. Compared to EPC projects, the shift to HAM would also ease cash flow pressure on the NHAI.

Senior NHAI official added that the hybrid model will be a win-win for developers as well as the government. In the current situation where developers lack capital, the move to lower the upfront costs is significant. Given the certainty of cash flows in the annuity model, developers can obtain more leverage from banks. This model is likely to ease financial burden on the exchequer too, as it lowers their upfront contribution for the project compared to EPC.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Jul 2015 04:31

He said there is a missing link of narrow corridor of about 22 km in connectivity to Sri Lanka from Rameshwaram which is presently being serviced through makeshift ferry service arrangements. “We are working on the project and as soon as it is completed, Trans Asia Road and transport network could be extended to Sri Lanka,” Gadkari said.

The proposed project will be a combination of bridge and underwater tunnel which will allow unhindered movement of ships through it, he said.

- See more at: http://www.sundaytimes.lk/news-online/r ... vFQFj.dpuf

habal · Post by **habal** » 10 Jul 2015 06:39

Singha wrote:i have seen only long haul goods trucks drive safely here. everything else is a shade of bad to worse.

i blame it on packing in hot curries as lunch or breakfast before leaving for destination. this makes it very uncomfortable for stomach in high ambient temps, since not everyone switches on a/c as soon as they begin a journey. Resultant of this habit is driving rashly as soon as one hit the road, 60-yr-old man as well as 15-yr-old shows same impatience behind the wheel.

I say eat thyre-saadam before a trip, if not then curd and maple syrup or simply ice-cream. If non veg then simply bread and salami slices with cheese. This tendency to drive fast as soon as one hits the road will vanish after such non-spicy meal.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 10 Jul 2015 06:55

Driving in india, being the better aware person you always have to account for stupid drivers. If you can avoid hitting other people it is infinitely better to do that instead of following rules and making a legal argument that you are not at fault.

habal · Post by **habal** » 10 Jul 2015 07:24

that said if you want to change lanes or cut through oncoming traffic to move into opposite lane than only long-distance truck types stop for you. All this roly-poly 1.2 Ltr engine walas never cared for anyone else in their lives nor could be darned to do you a favor. After a while it begins to grate on the nerves. I now can safely say pox on the 800cc, 1000 cc, 1200 cc and 1400 cc morons, these were built for small-minded people.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 10 Jul 2015 09:07

Bade wrote:
He said there is a missing link of narrow corridor of about 22 km in connectivity to Sri Lanka from Rameshwaram which is presently being serviced through makeshift ferry service arrangements. “We are working on the project and as soon as it is completed, Trans Asia Road and transport network could be extended to Sri Lanka,” Gadkari said.

The proposed project will be a combination of bridge and underwater tunnel which will allow unhindered movement of ships through it, he said.
- See more at: http://www.sundaytimes.lk/news-online/r ... vFQFj.dpuf

Poet Subhramanya Bharati's dream is being realised! He wrote of his dream India. His common market theme for India embraced Sri Lanka. He said, "Singala theevinirkor palam amaippom
Sethuvai meduruthi veedhi samaippom
Gangayil odivarum neer mgaiyal
Vaiyathu nadugalili payir seivom"
Translated
A bridge across the sea to Sri Lanka
A street straddling the land on either side of Sethu
The surplus waters of Ganga
Shall irrigate the lands of the world.
The interesting thing is the DMK government wanted the shallow waters of Palk Straits to be deepened. But Bharati was calling for raising the height of the bund. The shallow sea bed to him resembled a bund that only needed to be raised. If ever there was an example of tangential thinking this must surely be it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jul 2015 10:12

while a oversea bridge has been done in japan and china of such length, it will take time and huge funding.

in the medium term, to facilitate better trade and tourism, big Ro-Ro ferries should be run between some points in india and SL, capable to take tens of loaded container trucks ... these types operate in areas like the Med and Baltic.

some are as big as LHD ships
http://integratedlogistics.wikispaces.c ... /roro2.jpg

niran · Post by **niran** » 10 Jul 2015 14:33

chaanakya wrote: From the statement of Alto driver, he stopped and waited for other vehicles to pass before turning right into the lane. I don't think Alto would have been speeding. He was not cautious enough and must have been looking his right and did not check his left while moving into the lane. Merc doing 140 is definitely illegal.

to look left you need left side mirror saar, pray tell me how many Alto drivers have left side mirror in position and properly aligned for use? few months back saw it folded with the same excuse no use saar, to prevent it getting yanked saar.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Jul 2015 15:40

He was turning, left side mirror cant cover the angle. he should come to a dead stop and looked, however, the Merc driver also doesn't seem to be faultless, with the Wagon R turning, he should have slowed down anticipating to brake. the alto headlights would have been an indicator from afar.
I slow down instinctively on Highways when I catch any chance of some one trying to merge in Indian Highways as many are poor judges of speed and braking.

Regarding instructions to Drivers, they have huge egos and never listen to owners. even Hiring and firing will get you no where. It is near impossible to find a defensive driver in India. Hence, I tend to avoid tourist cars and do self drives where ever possible.

The main reasons for over speeding is

1) lack of knowledge of basic physics.

2) The ego of wanting to state covering X kms in Y minutes.

3) Chalta hai attitude after doing some distance on Highways

4) Ego of wanting to see others disappear in your rear view mirror

5) the freedom Highways offer after the irritating traffic one sees on Indian roads.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Jul 2015 16:23

Basically the drivers are stupid.

How many have seen people honking at ditches on an empty road?? Or try desperately to overtake you and then do nothing.

How many have observed people who have stopped at a traffic signal, creeping up to the middle of the intersection. Or cross the intersection and then stop for the light to turn green.

Even if your add dozones of traffic cops at every intersection, people are not going to change.
Or for that matter are aware that in 2008 India had 50% cars as compared to the PRC and equal no of deaths caused by motor vehicles.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 10 Jul 2015 20:00

Two little stories re: Indian attitudes to driving.

1/ I was giving a lift to a friend of mine from Kerala, in London. I was driving. We came to a junction which had a "No Right Turn". I stopped and was about to turn left, just waiting for the traffic to clear.
My friend said "Take the right turn yaar" I foolishly thought I would get away with it.
I took the right turn. Right behind me was a Police car, lights flashed, I was pulled over. got out of the car. My friend got out of the car and put his hands together and assumed a submissive posture. I told him to get back into the car.
I received the ticket and paid. As we drove on after the police encounter I asked my colleague what all this, Hands together, submissive, begging business was about.
He told me that in India if you did this the police would let you go. He was very impressed that I was fined and the cops did not change their minds.

Second story.

My father was visiting relations in Punjab. My cousins offered him a lift. They were swigging whiskey. Result = serious accident, with my father in hospital.
My cousins genuinley did not see the problem with drinking and driving.

It will take years to change a nations behavioural culture. But the start has to be made with public education films shown in cinemas and on TV.

There has to be more Corporate Liability. If companies are held responsible for their drivers behaviour, then they will buckle up. Some one commentated earlier that this is passing the buck. The fact is, it works. The recent Swiss Air suicide crash prooves this. The airline was aware of the pilots problems and allowed him to fly. They are being sued for millions.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Jul 2015 20:10

Haresh wrote:It will take years to change a nations behavioural culture. But the start has to be made with public education films shown in cinemas and on TV.

Education should begin in school, at home and amongst peers. My dad taught me how to drive properly back in the 1970's. He did not trust any fly by night trainer type.

For the straight from village crowd not a clue what can be done.
I have always wondered how India is going to live with its 5th standard fails.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 10 Jul 2015 20:27

if 'village' people are ignorant about rules, the 'educated city people' know the rules and willfully violate..both are worse..no point in picking people..

even following rules is sometimes bad...you stop in the front, at the red light line, and if people are pushing fwd because of no traffic, if you keep the road blocked, people will try and go around you causing more issue...better to move and clear the way.

what we need is a systemwide change, road designs, enforcement, education and awareness right from the beginning to licensing stage and effective penalty system of points for license suspension and link tickets to insurance.

nothing teaches rules to people like money.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Jul 2015 20:47

niran wrote:
chaanakya wrote: From the statement of Alto driver, he stopped and waited for other vehicles to pass before turning right into the lane. I don't think Alto would have been speeding. He was not cautious enough and must have been looking his right and did not check his left while moving into the lane. Merc doing 140 is definitely illegal.

to look left you need left side mirror saar, pray tell me how many Alto drivers have left side mirror in position and properly aligned for use? few months back saw it folded with the same excuse no use saar, to prevent it getting yanked saar.

My understanding was that Alto was turning right into the lane so it must be parallel to the lane before merging. Left mirror is of no use. He has to stop and look left into the incoming traffic of merging lane and then proceed. The left side of alto was crumpled , from the pictures posted, so that seems to be the situation. impact would have been either near front passenger door or near front wheel.Also Merc's right side fender, both headlamps etc was broken.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Jul 2015 20:52

Also Merc was lucky that there were no other vehicles behind it doing close to 140. Else there could have been pile up and we would have been writing obituary of lot many than a poor little girl.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 10 Jul 2015 21:04

Can anyone tell me, what is the standard of driving and driver training in the Indian Military?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 11 Jul 2015 06:41

We can also look at the quality of the build, of course not comparing S class to an Alto but still, If the Alto had crumple zone, the impact would have been less severe.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jul 2015 10:43

in the good old days people used to praise the Amby for its solid 'strength' and thick steel.
but with no crumple zones the momentum would all be transferred to pax inside, with no seat belts also.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Jul 2015 10:45

Alto given the price it has cannot be better built, it is good VFM. Drivers of Alto need to understand responsibility and limitations just like those driving S class need to to understand cost of vehicle cannot defy physics.

There are many who are proud of overtaking more expensive cars and happy with it thinking they are superior without understanding it was only their risk appetite and probability of accident were higher than slower going more expensive car.

habal · Post by **habal** » 11 Jul 2015 10:46

chaanakya wrote:Also Merc was lucky that there were no other vehicles behind it doing close to 140. Else there could have been pile up and we would have been writing obituary of lot many than a poor little girl.

for most cars all the crash protection is to the front. The rear is severely underprotected. No additional strength features like crash protection beams at rear IIRC for most cars. How is it for the S350, I do not know.

For most cars, the air bags also do not open if impact is from rear.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Jul 2015 10:47

Amby was uncomfortable but had a reputation, In India people go more by perception and reputations than hard data and facts.

Hence we are nation who worships actors rather than performers.

negi · Post by **negi** » 11 Jul 2015 15:30

The compact SUV/MUV market has become hot Maruti and Hyundai have entered the ring with S-cross and CReta , Ecosport is the benchmark they are up against .

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Jul 2015 19:52

Why can't they use some heavy silicon-rubber padding/spring-rubber for crumple zone?