UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

[sanjaykumar]

Why not use cheap high speed drones to kill drones?

Usually when I think of something obvious and there is little in the public domain, it means furious work is being done, but discreetly.

[Neela]

Explained beautifully.

It's amazing that so many highly educated people in India are unable to understand this.

Well to be honest, 'educated' or otherwise, most people simply don't know the circus of the public procurement system. I myself didn't until I became part of it. The other major problem is that people are simply unaware of the high cost of R&D. To get the benefit of R&D, the product has to be procured in large numbers otherwise its not financially feasible. We cannot throw a few pennies and then not induct anything and then expect world class results.

Absolutely. And the babus and netas must realize also that there are several areas in the defence sector where the model simply will not work because there isnt enough numbers for private industry to step in. They have to realize that private industry is responsible to shareholders and not the govt. And pvt industry should make money. If the numbers dont justify R&D spend, they'll walk away.
Unless.
You have a mercantile mindset where you want to corner the global market. In that case, ultra cheap financing of niche industries from the government to private industry. For that, you'll need confidence. We probably arent there yet. Maybe in 10 years. . Kalyani is discounted here as an exception. Baba Kalyani is a visionary and was willing to tkae the risk. He took the risk. And now he has enough orders to sustain his own R&D .

[Prem Kumar]

https://www.livefistdefence.com/ghatak- ... rams-path/

This is Part 1 of concerns raised by the Ghatak Project Director (ADA) Biju Uthup. If you ignore the unnecessary hyperbole about ADA, the kernel of his concern is that the Ghatak project was gifted from ADA to ADE after the former did all the hard work!

Needless to say, this is a catastrophically dumb move! As everyone knows, ADA has had stellar success with Tejas while ADE has shipped zilch! Everything the ADE touched has failed: Nirbhay, Rustom 1 & 2.

WTF were the DRDO top brass thinking?

The correct approach would be to leave Ghatak with ADA, dissolve ADE and move its people/projects under other labs whose managers can crack the whip & know how to ship products!

[Rakesh]

India sends newly assembled MALE UAVs to Israel
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/uv-o ... to-israel/
02 February 2024

[bala]

Sandeep Unnithan and Lt. Gen P R Shankar talk about development and deployment of unmanned aerial systems in India. The idea is to get IGDMP (missile integrated development program) like program for drones with academic, services, ISRO and others involved (integrated drone development program - IDDP). Today, many private companies, buy sub-systems from abroad and put something together for the purpose they are dealing with as a product. However these 1 of systems do not help build an eco-system that supports better systems down the road. Importing sub-systems is not Atma Nirbharta. The army needs UAVs operable in high altitudes. Navy has needs for UAVs operable over seas. The airforce needs UAVs to work in concert with their aircrafts. India requires many different kinds of UAVs, defence against enemy drones is another requirement. The CDS must be involved to get a jointness amongst the armed forces especially with communication, intelligence sharing with space based assets like satellites. Use of AI for better decision making is another area India needs to consider. A drone pilot needs to be nurtured and incentivized. Maintenance and repair is another area, with robust part supply which is in India.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=090YkCveF-A

// good discussions, now we need to turn them into a dedicated program so that the armed forces would benefit from its outcome. I hope the MOD babus listen to the suggestions and make them happen. Pujya Mantriji should be involved in decision making. Let us face the fact that India is behind the curve on drones. This has forced India to import predators and herons from videsh at a huge cost.

[Rakesh]

How India is trying to revive its nosediving ambitious military drone project
https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-i ... 2024-02-10
10 Feb 2024

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy, Air Force showing interest in indigenous Tapas drones
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 214200216/
14 Feb 2024

[Manish_P]

Indian Navy, Air Force showing interest in indigenous Tapas drones
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 214200216/
14 Feb 2024

Just a page back there are posts about the cancellation (or pause) of the Tapas program...

[VinodTK]

From: NDTV

India-US Deal For Buying 31 Predator Drones To Be Signed Soon: Navy Chief

Visakhapatnam: Indian Navy chief Admiral R Hari Kumar on Sunday said the all-important deal for buying 31 Predator drones from the US has been cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council and is expected to be signed in the next few months.

"We are the lead servers who are steering it. The letter of request has been cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council and the letter of request has gone to the US government. They have given us a draft letter of availability. Now the final one will come. It has to be placed before the (the US) Congressional committee thereafter it will come," he said.

The Navy chief said, "We hope that it will be taken forward and we hope to sign the contract maybe in a few months ahead."

He said that there is a lead time for it to be manufactured and delivered. So the first aircraft may not come before 36 months.

"And we hope that it will be taken forward and we hope to sign the contract maybe in a few months ahead. And thereafter there is a lead time for it to be manufactured and delivered. So the first aircraft may not come before 36 months," he added.

India and the US are in talks to sign the Predator drone deal in which 31 of them would be acquired of which 15 would be operated by the Indian Navy while 8 each would be flown by the Indian Army and Air Force.

The deal is expected to be worth around USD 4 billion and would include weapons and other equipment required for operations.

As Admiral Kumar reaffirms, protecting national interests in the maritime domain remains paramount, underscoring the Navy's unwavering dedication to safeguarding the seas.

While speaking to ANI about the 'MILAN 24, he added, "a new era of maritime cooperation, where nations unite to navigate the complexities of the maritime domain, ensuring that the oceans remain safe, secure, and free--a testament to the enduring spirit of collaboration in the Indo-Pacific region."

Eastern Naval Command posted on X, extending a warm welcome for Corvette 20 of the Vietnam People's Navy and USS Halsey (DDG-97) of the United States Navy

"Naval vessels from Vietnam and the United States have arrived in Visakhapatnam for the MILAN 2024 maritime exercise," the post on X remarked.

Moreover, the 12th edition of the MILAN exercise will be held from February 19 to 27 in Visakhapatnam and will see the participation of over 50 countries.

[Haridas]

Just a page back there are posts about the cancellation (or pause) of the Tapas program...

Just shows how shallow is understanding of people who take sensational YouTuber reporting (some paid by vested interest) hook line & sinker.

In SM and iirc on BR I had said mission mode removal means goes to production without further major development.

[Haridas]

From: NDTV India-US Deal For Buying 31 Predator Drones To Be Signed Soon: Navy Chief

India needs many times more heavy MALE (>3000 kg & >30,000 Ft) then the 31 MQ9. (Not counting the much lighter and lower altitude elbit Hermes Dristi)

I won't be surprised that after election, MQ9 and some other indigenous MALE options are funded by Modi-3 govt.

[tandav]

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/houthis-m ... eaper/amp/

3 MQ9 reapers each $32000000 shot down since Nov 2023 by the Houthis by apparently by sub $10000 munitions off Yemen. British Tanker also sunk

The attrition of expensive NATO assets by non peer ragtag militias makes one doubt the ability to face near peer adversaries like China and Russia

[Manish_P]

...
In SM and iirc on BR I had said mission mode removal means goes to production without further major development.

Great to hear. Orders placed?

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/DivaJain2/status/1764461984940953692?s=20 ---> IG drones started as a service provider. Now it is making a foray in to manufacturing drones. This is the natural progression of things in manufacturing. Starting from scratch with 100% R&D and zero screwdrivergiri is not a feasible strategy in manufacturing.

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1764660 ... 73581?s=20 ---> In the defence sector we need actual R&D. Issue is that screwdriver projects, *wrongly claimed to be indigenous*, compete with true IDDM ones & kill them due to fixed demand. For strategic sectors, mere 'Make' is suicidal for R&D, for which DRDO continues to do the heavy lifting...

[sanman]

IDF Uses Robot Dogs in War with Hamas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7zziLyPNfM

Google summary

The video talks about the use of robot dogs by the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) in the ongoing war with Hamas. The speaker raises concerns about the ethical implications of using robots in warfare and the potential for civilian casualties.

The speaker first mentions a Black Mirror episode where robot dogs were used to kill people. He then points out that while the robot dogs used by the IDF are not weaponized, their use in warfare is still concerning. He argues that the use of robots in warfare reduces the risk to soldiers, which can lead to them taking more risks and potentially causing more civilian casualties.

The speaker also discusses the potential for robots to make mistakes, such as killing civilians or friendly fire. He mentions an incident where the IDF killed three Israeli hostages who were waving white flags. He argues that it is unclear whether robots would be more or less likely to make such mistakes.

Finally, the speaker discusses the potential for robot dogs to be used to help dig out Palestinians who are crushed under rubble. He argues that this would be a welcome use of the technology, but it is unclear whether this would be the goal of the IDF.

Overall, the video raises concerns about the ethical implications of using robots in warfare and the potential for civilian casualties.

[srai]

^^^
So it begins …


Here is a clip of the Black Mirror- Metalhead episode

[Manish_P]

IDF Uses Robot Dogs in War with Hamas

Weren't the same questions raised two decades ago when the US started using drones over Afghanistan/Pakistan?

[srai]

^^^
AI and Robotics at completely different levels if you are comparing tech from two decades ago.

Even small weaponized drones being manufactured by the millions with rapidly evolving elements of AI (image recognition and autonomous decision making & action) were totally non-existent back then.