India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Aug 2013 14:55

That wont happen when the current dispensation shivers when the west says something including when they pass comments on indian affairs and even send fact finding committees to india. Which is after all their baap ka maal.
Even so we need to keep these cartels happy given the lock down they have on al the cutting edge semicon, materials and other ecosystems. We are simply not investing enough to supplant them because after all the money has to be spent on dynasty yojanas and votebank gimmicks or just stolen.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Aug 2013 15:11

The point I am making is that intelligent reverse engineering has to be part of a comprehensive well funded national strategy. It cant be done on an ad hoc basis which is what is being done today. In other words a strategy like yours liloji or something different but either ways it requires us to be hard nosed and kill the impory gravy train upon which many of our elite have grown fat over the years. The Drdo budget..the artificial restrictions on DPSU decision making...the lack of a comprehensive procurement and development strategy..keeping the private sector at the subsystem level...all these are linked..the imports bring in good money

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 Aug 2013 18:12

Ajatshatru wrote:Karan M wrote:
The whole problem with intelligent reverse engineering is at nobody will then license us stuff which then means we are truly left to our own devices.
But, generally speaking, would any country tomtom about this and tell the entire world after having done so?

When the technology shows up, that should be indication enough. Specs, and in cases where it is visible, the shape, etc., should provide enough info about who may have assisted.

vic · Post by **vic** » 22 Aug 2013 18:22

Reverse engineering requires (i) Investment in R&D (ii) Investment in setting up Manufacturing plant (iii) Giving up addiction for Foreign help and warranty (iv) No slush fund.

OFB was able to reverse engineer FH77 after MoD allotted around Rs 400 crores for setting up large Caliber weapon manufacturing plant.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Aug 2013 20:14

Ajat Ji as I mentioned in my post or rather hinted ad hoc attempts at intelligent reverse engineering have been done previously with some success..but these are subsystems...but what I am talking about are the kind of brazen efforts like what the chinese are doing with the flankers. And yet the Russians will still sell them tech for fire control radars, for new helicopter designs, new missile systems...basically the entire kitchen sink as and when they want it. Because the Chinese MIC is spending and it will only buy local so the foreign OEMs have no other choice if they want a share of the pie. They don't bend over backwards to appease foreign OEMS as well. And what they buy they buy in bulk. None of the stuff about slowly ordering Mk1 etc. on the other hand india's procurement is haphazard and does not even properly leverage tech from abroad or have a consistent policy of taking that tech forward for other programs
Our procurement is so badly managed that huge sums are returned unspent every year to the services. An anaemic R&D budget for DRDO keeps some program's chugging along but ensures that massive breakthroughs across several fields simultaneously remain a pipe dream. The DPSUs are either performing ok but limited by govt policies or going on auto navigation and making avoidable mistakes with a demanding customer at odds with them. The private sector is limited to subsystems and with DRDO help has managed some successes but is nowhere near getting the kind of projects or program's that will make them successful at a global scale. If you sit down and dispassionately analyse the whole thing it becomes obvious that imports are a gravy train for a certain party to get huge amounts of funds in a completely brazen manner. The bofors scam apart, the recent tatra controversy where the investigating agency has conveniently noted the evidence i.e. tapes, don't work. And that deal can be tied back to the same gent who was implicated in the bofors scam
India's state owned OFB has a chief who is implicated in scams and multiple OEMs are black listed...but what about clearing our own stables?silence, while existing ventures critical to national security are blocked.
The signs of our systemic flaws are so many.....the same ex IAF chief who sought to scuttle the Akash is then embroiled in the AW deal, and is also part of the track2 process. Ex military chiefs are caught in a brazen attempt to appropriate flats meant for war widows. Another chief often disparaged for his publicity hungry mien then becomes a governor of a NE state (again a privileged posting for trustworthy party fab candidates) and promptly speaks of ceding Indian territory to buy peace with the PRC.
Sorry but in such a system, artificially constrained to deliberately limit itself..imports are a gravy train nobody will touch. In fact do you think the delays which artificially inflate the price are an oversight for which nobody gets held accountable? Or another way to increase program cost.

member_23651 · Post by **member_23651** » 24 Aug 2013 09:16

Majority of the Btech and Mtech's I know could not accomplish what he has done. Yet HAL insists he hshould have BTech degree. I mean why do we show apathy in nurturing talent? I know maybe his efforts might be crude, but seing his passion and will to do, I think he should be encouraged.

Kolkata college boy builds a drone, wants army to take a look

KOLKATA: Most boys his age would be happy with a bike. A car would be a dream. But Subhanjan Saha owns a drone. Better still, the 21-year-old 'technopreneur' has built it himself and claims to have outdone similar campus innovations inspired by Joy Lobo's flying spy camera in '3 Idiots'.

Saha's drone is the product of an ingenious mind and India's trademark jugad technology. Built with scrap metal, pieces of plastic and cheap Chinese-made contraptions, it packs enough power to fly 10km at a stretch at a height between 5,000-10,000 feet, take clear ground photographs with a high-resolution camera and instantly relay them back to its operator. Saha has also equipped it with "bomb-dropping" and "rocket-launching" abilities, though he admits they are essentially rudimentary and he needs expert guidance as well as access to superior technology to make his prototype effective.

The third-year computer science student at Manindra Chandra College has written to the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) for help and funds. If he can develop it to the level he desires, Saha believes the drone will be good enough to be used by the Army for surveillance and security operations, especially along the turbulent borders with Pakistan and China.

Saha's manufacturing cost for the drone was Rs 90,000. An NGO, Prantakatha, and Abhijit Mukherjee of the SN Bose Centre for Basic Sciences are helping him keep his dream alive. "We have sent a proposal to the department of science and technology outlining his project. Once we receive a response, we shall appeal to the government to explore the possibilities of the spycam being used by the defence forces," said Bappaditya Mukherjee of Prantakatha.

The desire to design a drone was kindled in Saha after the trauma of seeing his uncle, a BSF officer, killed by infiltrators in Kargil. "The jawans were being fired at from a greater height and they couldn't gauge the source of the bullets. If they had a flying spy camera, they could have located the enemy and fought back. My uncle's death inspired me to try and create an instrument that could be used in such situations. It has been my passion ever since I was a class V student," he says.

But, a weaver's son, he didn't have the means to fund his plan, though the desire remained strong. The first breakthrough came while he was still in school when he managed to put together a helicopter with scrap metal, wood, plastic and hand-built circuits with help from teachers. "It wasn't fitted with a camera and couldn't fly for more than a few seconds. But it did take off, which was a big step for me. I knew I was on the right path," he says.

The plan took off when he arrived in Kolkata to attend college from Kalna, his home town. "I read up what I needed on the internet. With help from a friend, I started getting some of the instruments needed from abroad," he says.

Saha has now designed three flying spy cams, one like a drone and two others that look like quadrators. Each has a propellor, light-weight batteries, an audio-video transmitter-cum-camera, a motor and an antenna. While the smallest of the three measures 1m by 1m, the biggest is about 2m in length with a wing span of 3m. It can fly 10km within a 5km radius and is remote-controlled. He is now developing encryption technology for the camera that won't allow it to be hacked. "I am working on an encoding system that will ensure the pictures taken by the camera can't be intercepted. This will make it ideally suited for defence use. I am keeping my fingers crossed," Saha said.

He approached Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd for assistance but was told he needed a BTech degree. Saha now hopes the DRDO will help his drone take wing.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 24 Aug 2013 11:29

The degree part is just a hogwash, they are probably scared when they saw how good the product was and how good he can make it, pure sarkari attitude

kit · Post by **kit** » 24 Aug 2013 17:06

some people can take in the likes of him and train him as well put him in a lab to try out his inventions..there are a lot of hobbyists around the world just like him.. like the chap who built a cruise missile in his garage

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 24 Aug 2013 22:53

Lil Saha should go back to finishing his studies and then try again.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 24 Aug 2013 23:04

Henry ford would have laughed at bunch of these degree seeking babudom attitude of whoever asked for it.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 24 Aug 2013 23:23

Maybe the kid should get the pakis to evaluate his drone. That'll drive a danda up these idiots.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Aug 2013 23:32

Guys who developed Netra UAV were funded by DRDO.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 25 Aug 2013 00:04

Ya, DRDO et al will beat the drums if they can take credit. They can't with this kid is the problem.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Aug 2013 01:45

Victor wrote:Ya, DRDO et al will beat the drums if they can take credit. They can't with this kid is the problem.

A similar machine was brought to an aeronautical society meeting by a bunch of out of state college kids. I think that they garnered some funding for their project.

Lots of students / guys in such development work including many companies with many tens of flying prototypes.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Aug 2013 02:44

well.. a private kompany should pitch in and take it up!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Aug 2013 07:52

Major issues with quality of HAL's MIG engines and components alleged in this front page report.

http://epaper.newindianexpress.com/1516 ... 3#page/1/1
Engine flaws turn MIGs into killers.

The report says that defective HAL made components caused "oil leaks,metallic particles in oil filters,hot air leaks from rear casing,trouble in compressors,and even turbine of MIG-27 aero-engines".This is attributed to the "horrific condition of the govt's stae-of-the-art manufacturing unit".

All 3 MIG types,MIG021,27,29s are suffering quality issues.LPTR failure in at least 11 accidents.
"HAL in some cases even lied while overhauling the LPTR saying it had followed the overhaul manualbut MOD officials said that the procedure recommended by the original equipment manufacturer was not being implemented by the celebrated company."

Shocking facts swept under the carpet.

"Springs installed in the fuel pump of MIG-21 engines are failing frequently.A MIG-21 Bison aircraft crashed in November 2012 in Gujarat was attributed to spring failure.The documents suggest that of the five main fuel pumps fitted with HAL manufactured springs,at least three springs failed,which is unforgivable as it would've certainly resulted in accidents.Shockingly,the main fuel pumps of Bisons continue to leak fuel despite four studies since 1990s.It says despite incorporating fuel changes,fuel leak from main fuel pump continued unabated from the throttle end."

MIG-29 fleet flying ops often suspended due to non-availability of critical accessories and poor quality of repairing.One reason attributed to these problems of poor quality and engine repairs is "mass production work in the last leg of production year,to achieve the target. For example in the first 6 months of 2012-13 production,HAL finished work on only 4 MIG-29 engines.but in the last quarter of the year,4 engines were completed within three months".

Same case with MIG-27 engines.9 completed in 9 months,but interestingly another 9 were completed within the last three months.
The issue was flagged by the MOD saying that such trend is adversely affecting the quality of aero-engines.

In the last 40 years,we have lost 171 pilot,39 civilians and almost half the MIG fleet.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 25 Aug 2013 08:11

krishnan wrote:The degree part is just a hogwash, they are probably scared when they saw how good the product was and how good he can make it, pure sarkari attitude

Absolutely on dot
ADA would not even talk to a team of us we even tried With ECIL

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Aug 2013 09:22

Making springs in India is no joke. Even when spring steel is specified the supplier takes music wire and winds around a mandrel or form and gives them to you.
I had this bad experience right out of school in a famous company in Powai.
Then had to have them tempered etc.

It was a disaster.

I think the above springs had no requirements about compression set, tempering etc.
No wonder they fail so often.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 29 Aug 2013 06:10

India developing E-bomb to paralyze networks

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is developing an E-bomb which will emit electromagnetic shock waves that destroy electronic circuits and communication networks of enemy forces, its chief and scientific advisor to the defence minister Avinash Chander said.

So next time there is a Kargil or a LoC violation, you may not hear gunshots or mortar shells, because the electromagnetic bomb will throw life out of gear.

"It will be a weapon that would explore the strong electromagnetic field generating a brief but intense or high power pulse of electromagnetic energy," Chander told TOI at the Missile Complex in Hyderabad. He said the spectrum of targets will be broad and in times to come, E-bombs would form the core of tactical warfare and electronic combat operations to damage the command, control and communications of enemy forces.

The director general of DRDO said that the electromagnetic shock wave from the bomb will destroy electronic circuits and communication network "while paralyzing them in terms of radars, communication networking, information gathering sensors, controls and other electronic equipment." Work is in full swing at the Research Centre Imarat, the Hyderabad-based laboratory of DRDO, to build the new bomb which will be ready for operational deployment within a few years.

Chander said the E-bomb would give an option to the military as the bomb can target the enemy's mobile targets, air defence systems, mobile or static radars, naval vessels with communication systems and even ill-shielded communication or electronic systems at a military base. The GPS-guided E-bombs would precede the conventional munitions for strategic air attacks and can cripple military units as weapons of electric destruction by releasing high voltage pulses. Other DRDO officials said the E-bomb warheads can be delivered by combat aircraft equipped to deliver guided munitions and cruise missiles.

Chander also said DRDO was developing the next generation of smart bombs or guided bombs, which would have a longer range of upto 100 km (starting from 10s of kms)and higher accuracy. "Smart bombs are basically precision guided munition equipped with electronic sensors, control system and adjustable flight fins for providing steering or gliding capacity to hit a designated target with much more accuracy," the DRDO chief said.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Sep 2013 04:24

http://newindianexpress.com/cities/thir ... 761089.ece

Country made a big mistake: IIT Director
By Express News Service - THIRUVANANTHAPURAM Published: 31st August 2013 12:19 PM Last Updated: 31st August 2013 12:19 PM
Keeping research institutions separate from educational ones was a big mistake on the part of India over the years, said R K Shevgaonkar, Director, IIT Delhi, here on Friday. He was delivering the inaugural keynote address at the 14th National Conference on Technological Trends (NCTT-2013) being held at College of Engineering Trivandrum (CET).

Talking on the lack of a research-based economy in India, Shevgaonkar said: “By segregating research from academics and setting up separate institutions for research, we have given an indirect message that research is only meant for a few.” By not incorporating research into academics, we have taken away a big chunk from the resource pool, he added.

“There is also this notion in academic institutions among teachers as well that ‘research is not my cup of tea,’” he said. “No one really has a clear idea what research is and a large number of people shy away thinking they’re incapable of it.”

Perhaps it is because of this reason that there are not enough research papers and innovations coming out, said Shevgaonkar, who himself has to his credit over 150 papers published in international journals and conferences, apart from two books.

“Around 50 years ago, India and China produced almost the same number of research papers, but now the latter comes out with four times as much our own,” he said. “All over India, only around 3,000 PhDs are produced a year, when this number should be 12-15,000.”

Talking about the kind of research that ought to be done, Shevgaonkar said that not all research has to be that which answers fundamental questions and requires in-depth subject knowledge. “There should be research that brings out innovation, that which can be of use to people,” he said. “Today, we do research that ‘can’ be done and not what ‘needs’ to be done.”

These days, 80 per cent of the world is working to solve problems of the top 20 per cent, who don’t actually have problems, Shevgaonkar added.

Research and innovation in the future, he said, must become interdisciplinary and researchers, especially in engineering, must ask themselves what they can learn from nature, which is energy-efficient and uses resources optimally.

Shevgaonkar is the first of nine speakers to give a keynote lecture in this conference. Over 270 papers will be presented at the two-day event.

Also present at the inaugural session were J Letha, Director of Technical Education, Kerala (DTE); S Sheela, CET Principal; Jiji C V, NCTT organising secretary and S Shabu, Dean, PG Studies, CET.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Sep 2013 07:07

India can still associate the research institutes to learning centers and get the benefit. No man or institute is an island.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 04 Sep 2013 08:16

Boss we talk too much, we have too many Dr. Doolittle(s)

Why declare e bum when we could keep it in skunk works?

Is it not Kali anyway

......
It is not easy to sping into quality

Springs have to have good metallurgy then followed by heat treatment and to stress relieve with out losing the original characteristics.

I have had seen many springs fail prematurely in mechanical presses the rolling clutch which operate on the main shaft groves with positive locking into free running fly wheel and the slide crank mechanism.

I have seen hydraulic hold downs in press brakes and guillotine shears fail prematurely..

I have seen torsion springs for trucks made by TVS fail prematurely leaf springs stacked and clamped with U clamp for the front and rear axles

If we had any strategic vision the hmt watch division would have been the right place to develop miniature springs for all kinds ultra small equipment like UAVs and robotics..

The fuel pumps in cars also use special springs to operate the diagphragm pump but most recent models use electric pumps or cam operated pumps

Any way who are we in this cosmos...

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 05 Sep 2013 12:20

Amyrao wrote: Boss we talk too much, we have too many Dr. Doolittle(s)

Do not underestimate. Doolittle mounted the first successful air raid on Tokyo!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Sep 2013 02:02

Steps have been put in place for the next wave of Indian made missiles and pgms. Note focus on miniaturization with specific reference to advanced seekers, sensors and actuators. We have already succeeded in phase 1- homegrown OBCs, INS/RLG-INS, sat receivers, seekers for PAD/AAD, FOG, satnav SOC etc. Now this is the next step to enhance the variety and range of sensors, guidance and electromechanical systems available.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyd ... 062289.ece

UAVs can of launching weapons soon: DRDO chief

Calling for miniaturization of the systems to Increase the accuracy of missiles, he said a major thrust was on bridging critical gaps in Developing advanced seekers, sensors and actuators. Future challenges included the development of navigation and telemetry on chip and That of loitering weapons with explosive 80 percent and 20 per hundred per avionics.

Precision-guided munitions (PGMs) That Can Be Launched from Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) Will Be test-fired by the Defence Research and Development Organisation in a pair of months, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister said Avinash Chander. PGMs are target-specific and Meant to Prevent collateral damage.

RCI Director G. Satheesh Reddy said Were Plans afoot to extend the ranks of guided smart-bombs from 30 km to 100 km.

RCI Director is the person who led the effort and succeeded in making local RLG-INS and various other programs.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Sep 2013 02:42

DRDO restructures for greater accountability

Dr Avinash Chander, the new Director General of Defence R&D Organisation (DG DRDO), has signalled his determination to reform the functioning and oft-criticised work culture of his organisation.

Within three months of his appointment he has implemented a far-reaching decentralisation, appointing seven top scientists, who earlier held the post of “chief controllers”, as “director generals” of various clusters.

As “chief controllers”, these officials performed advisory and coordination roles, but were not responsible for the success of individual projects to develop weapons and equipment. That buck stopped with the directors of the DRDO’s fifty-two laboratories.

On Sept 2, the seven new “director generals”, or DGs, were given executive responsible for the success of projects being developed by their laboratories. For example, the “missile cluster” comprises of four laboratories, which co-operate to develop missiles like the Agni-V, which will be tested on Sunday. These have always functioned under the Chief Controller (Missiles and Strategic Systems), who was never accountable for project success or failure.

The seven clusters that will be headed by the seven new DGs are -- aeronautical systems (Aero); electronics and communications systems (ECS); missiles and strategic systems (MSS); naval systems and materials (NS&M); armament and combat engineering (ACE); life sciences (LS); and micro-electronic devices and computational systems (MED & CoS).

The CCs were headquartered in DRDO Bhavan in New Delhi, but the new DGs will be based in the cities where their clusters are concentrated. The DRDO today announced that DG (Aero) and DG (ECS) have begun functioning in Bengaluru. The DG (MSS) will shift headquarters to Hyderabad, DG (NS&M) will be located in Visakhapatnam, while DG (ACE) will be headquartered in Pune. The other two will continue to remain in Delhi.

Many CCs had maintained offices alongside their clusters, dividing their time between Delhi and their cluster locations. While the DGs will continue to divide their time, they will be headquartered henceforth along with their laboratories.

“The DG will come to headquarters only for budget planning, review programmes or if additional funds are needed. He or she has the authority and responsibility to deliver products…. We will create a focused hierarchy in DRDO,” Chander told Business Standard, in his first interview after taking over as DG.

While Chander has implemented the Rama Rao Committee recommendation that was in his power, other recommendations have languished in the MoD for five and a half years. These include the establishment of a commercial arm for marketing DRDO-developed technologies; the establishment of a Defence Technology Commission that would approach issues relating to high technology holistically; and the change of nomenclature of DG DRDO to Chairman DRDO.

The DRDO chief wears three hats -- DG DRDO, Secretary R&D, and Scientific Advisor to the Raksha Mantri. With the appointment of seven DGs, each wielding executive and financial power over a technology cluster, the Rama Rao Committee has recommended that a chairman be appointed to oversee them.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Sep 2013 12:08

Strategic Metal Titanium Gets Closer to More Production in India - Based on a TOIlet report

India has taken another step in the production of titanium sponge when the well-known public sector steel producer, the Steel Authority of India Limited (SAIL), signed an agreement with the Kerala State Industrial Development Corp (KSIDC) and Kerala Minerals and Metals Ltd (KMML) to jointly set up an approximately US $458 million plant to produce titanium sponge and metals, according to the Times of India.

<snip>

The new JV will be the second major titanium project in Kerala. The KMML already runs one titanium sponge plant in collaboration with the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) and the Defense Metallurgical Research Laboratory.

The new venture will be a two-phase production plant. First, efforts will be made to produce 10,000 tons of titanium sponge, after which the same will be used to make between 18,000 to 40,000 tons of the titanium metal itself. KMML will supply the titanium tetrachloride required for the production of the sponge.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Sep 2013 12:26

Here is what the GOI has to say on Titanium research and production in India in reply to a question in Rajya Sabha
RESEARCH TO DEVELOP TITANIUM METAL

Research for development of Titanium Metal production technology in the country was initially carried out in Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, of
Department of Atomic Energy. Based upon this technology, a pilot plant was set up in Nuclear Fuel Complex, Hyderabad (a unit of Department of Atomic Energy). This technology was subsequently transfer red to Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) of the Ministry of Defence, who operated a pilot plant with a production capacity of 2 tonnes of Titanium per batch. Based upon the same technology, Department of Space, in association with Kerala Minerals & Metals Ltd. (KMML), a Public Sector Undertaking of Government of Kerala, has now setup an industrial scale unit for production of titanium metal.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Sep 2013 14:23

We should work towards a defence industry that exports: Avinash Chander

Is defence R&D in the country at a crossroads?

The Indian defence industry is in transition. It has tremendous potential to move ahead but must also be ready to absorb some level of risk, to upgrade its competitiveness. There are many new opportunities, since the acquisition process has become more proactive.

DRDO is working with industry and will provide support wherever required as a technology partner.

Is industry being too cautious in wanting more guarantees?

We should not get into a Catch 22 situation, which would happen if the MoD demands industrial capability before placing an order, while industry demands orders before putting money into developing capabilities. Secondly, if the "Make (Indian)" category of procurement is to survive, we should work towards global competitiveness and a defence industry that exports. Otherwise, domestic industry will never be competitive in cost.

Would that mean loosening export control regulations?

Exports would be fine, provided we first meet our own military's requirements. But a large, assured market is essential for economically viable development programmes. Take the Tejas fighter - the Indian market may be for just 100-200 aircraft but the global market could buy another 500 aircraft. There is demand for this class of aircraft and not many competitors. If we build the Tejas in large numbers it can be globally competitive. A competitive defence industry must export for volumes. This will require policies, a well-crafted methodology, and MoD support.

Should there be greater funding for the DRDO?

China spends 15 per cent of its officially declared defence budget on R&D, as do other countries. We spend just 5.5 per cent, including on salaries, capital expenditure, and on strategic systems. We don't have any hidden budgets. It is imperative we spend more on defence R&D if we want to become self-reliant. Not just DRDO; a larger R&D budget can be shared with industry too.

But we are yet to develop an expenditure model where the government is ready to fund a private industry project, regardless of success or failure. For that the system needs to mature. Also, we need to identify four or five key thrust areas for R&D. One such area is the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, with unmanned systems developed in parallel. Another is artillery, where we need to develop our own gun design. We are developing that with a new partnership model: an Ordnance Factory-industry-DRDO partnership.

Tell us more about this.

Industry is developing the capability to manufacture a barrel. The DRDO's Armament R&D Establishment (ARDE) is designing electromechanical systems, better recoil capabilities, and a totally automated gun with higher rates of fire. We have set a timeline - the prototypes will be ready within three years.{5-10 years to mass production. perhaps followed by weight reduction program. So an Indigenous ULH is at least a decade away even if parallel research is taken up. Perhaps TOT based local manufacturing can be negotiated for M777}

Bharat Forge is developing its own gun too, alongside with partnering the DRDO project.

The DRDO has no problem with that; if industry does anything on its own, or even with foreign technology input, we are happy. Seven thousand DRDO scientists cannot handle defence R&D for the entire country. But we do not want industry initiatives to get into indirect import, with only minor assembly done in India. In so-called Transfer of Technology (ToT) manufacture earlier, 80 per cent of the inputs were coming from abroad. Manufacturing must enhance indigenous capability; industry must be able to upgrade products that it builds. Only then can one call it an Indian product.

Tejas, guns, missiles. What else is DRDO working on?

The future of DRDO will be defined by three to four R&D areas: First, unmanned warfare, on ground and in air. Robotic soldiers and unmanned aircraft will require us to develop a host of technologies. Second, we need to end ammunition import by creating indigenous manufacturing processes and upgrades. Third, we need state-of-the-art missiles with far greater ranges than at present, which we can launch from multiple platforms. One hundred km was considered a good standoff range, but now we need to hit aircraft and ships at longer distance. We need dynamic design processes to keep pace.

What developments can we expect in the DPP?

The DPP will constantly evolve. There will be more emphasis and clarity on indigenisation. The "Make" category has some parameters, but we need to work out processes for selecting a development partner for a system where the end product is not fully defined. We buy on a lowest cost (L-1) basis but how do you cost if the product has not been defined?

There is an unresolved debate on increasing FDI in defence…

FDI is not really relevant to DRDO. But, as an engineer, I feel FDI brings in skills that are essential for growth. In the automobile industry, it brought quality processes in manufacturing, automation, cost consciousness. Once foreign partners invest, their teams get integrated into management and that can transform the industrial pace and capability.

The counter argument is that defence is a sensitive matter, and so how much FDI is acceptable? That debate has to be resolved in appropriate forums. Also, if I transfer a proprietary technology to a firm, which is then acquired by a foreign company and it stops production, then it compromises our total programme.

Will the DRDO not be evaluating technology where companies apply for 100 per cent FDI on the grounds that high-end technology is being brought in?

We will be the arbiters who evaluate the technology. But we will not decide whether a particular technology is needed or not. That is a different role.

What are the difficulties in making your evaluation?

Evaluating technology is a tricky problem, even in offsets. We will need to identify and define critical technology. We will need to evaluate its cost. We will need to see how it fits in with our acquisition plans? These are the three keys issues that we are resolving. We hope mature methodologies will evolve on the costing of technology, its necessity, its impact factor, its long-term benefits and its ability to produce spin-offs.

What is happening on the Defence Technology Commission?

The DTC will have all stakeholders - the armed forces, MoD, PMO, scientific community, production community, industry bodies - together taking integrated, holistic decisions in the national interest, rather than in individual or group interests. I'm confident that it will come through by the end of the year. It has to go to cabinet for clearance. In principle there is no hurdle.

Will the DTC only set a broad agenda for indigenisation?

It will fix the parameters related to developing indigenous products - how to promote science and R&D, how to smoothen production interfaces, what kind of products and what numbers should be made...

Is the DRDO stepping up cooperation with overseas partners?

As India's capability and visibility grows, there will be more partnerships. Increasingly, a major part of the development would be from the Indian side with a small part coming from abroad.{And the JV should be India based .. like for Brahmos .. and unlike MRSAM .. or the half.n.half FGFA ..}

But this is getting bogged down in procedure?

If we have to attract overseas partners we must simplify processes so that interfacing becomes faster. The world will not wait. If we delay, they will look for other partners.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 13 Sep 2013 19:05

Pankajs,

I appreciate your efforts in formatting the article and trying to put it in a readable format. May be too much of formatting isn't good and the mixing of your comments into it is creating a confusion which dilutes the essence of the content.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Sep 2013 20:34

Next step is to formally associate certain OFB and Public Sector companies with the seven core R&D sectors to ensure smooth flow between R&D and production.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Sep 2013 21:04

Sir the only way OFB will respond is if its workers realise they cannot get away with bijness as usual. LandT, Tata etc have to be brought into mass manufacturing ASAP.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Sep 2013 05:04

Huge growth in the scale of activities currently underway in the radar field in India.

Quick notes about the initiatives mentioned:
1. Passive radar program underway
2. Tejas AESA FCR program picking up pace - several papers being presented on progress in hardware and algorithms
3. GaN arrays also in progress - paper on realized GaN Tx/Rx chain
4. Several papers on work done for advanced features in AESA and other programs- digital multichannel receivers, digital beamforming etc. These are basically all the AESA programs for the IAF, IA and also the BMD programs
5. Similar stuff on work for enhancing existing radar designs.

http://www.radarindia.com/techpapers.html

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Sep 2013 01:13

After Agni-5, DRDO sets eye on 10,000 km range ballistic missiles - Misleading headline

Reacting to queries, Chander said there was no programme such as Agni-6 at the moment.

The important nuggets are

On the 1,500 km range Nirbhay cruise missile, he said the second test-firing of the weapon system would be conducted by the end of this year.

<snip>

He said the trials of the Arjun MkII tank programme were going on and 79 modifications have been validated.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 18 Sep 2013 02:03

Tech Focus on Sonar Aug 2013

vic · Post by **vic** » 19 Sep 2013 12:11

India needs to invest in IR- thermal sensor array and night sight sensor array fabs also. There is massive need for this equipment and we are seriously handicapped as also forced to import.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 21 Sep 2013 01:03

I think this wasn't posted here since wasn't released before

Armament Technologies August-December 2012

Has info of SAMHO, PG Kit for HSLD and lots of other good stuff with pics

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2013 01:52

Sagar G wrote:I think this wasn't posted here since wasn't released before

Armament Technologies August-December 2012

Has info of SAMHO, PG Kit for HSLD and lots of other good stuff with pics

Thanks. Lots of info on progress on ordnance devices and propulsion compositions.

Its the CLGM version and not SAMHO which is really the same from a tube.

The PG kit for HSLD appears different than the Sudarshan kit. Doesn't have the same look and feel. I guess Sudarshan is for the UK vintage 1000lb cast steel bombs.

SaiK, Desi Muhe me ghee shakar or Smart Balance with Splenda!!!!

DRDO has succeeded in mixing Cl-20 with the HTBP-AP-Al rocket motor fuel!!!

Also many small arms improvements noted.

Also if the CLGM/SAMHO is underway why the Javelin non starter project?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Sep 2013 02:38

Sagar G wrote:I think this wasn't posted here since wasn't released before

Armament Technologies August-December 2012

Has info of SAMHO, PG Kit for HSLD and lots of other good stuff with pics

The PG kit for HSLD is really interesting. Never heard of this before. Can't think of how it is different from Sudarshan or why this dual effort. Any ideas anybody?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Sep 2013 02:45

Depends on definition of old..the picture is from early last year, Feb 2012, Defexpo and has been propping up elsewhere in other expos, events as well..
SAMHO is the CLGM in a FLAME launcher, adopted for the role (designation included apparently).

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Sep 2013 02:47

indranilroy wrote:
Sagar G wrote:I think this wasn't posted here since wasn't released before

Armament Technologies August-December 2012

Has info of SAMHO, PG Kit for HSLD and lots of other good stuff with pics
The PG kit for HSLD is really interesting. Never heard of this before. Can't think of how it is different from Sudarshan or why this dual effort. Any ideas anybody?

Sudarshan 1 didnt have INS. This appears to be a more long range system. If its not Sudarshan 2, then it just reiterates the dual munitions development strategy currently happening at DRDO. This is probably a RCI/DRDL program and Sudarshan, Nirbhay are ADE ones.