South India River Water Issues/Disputes

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 13 Sep 2016 19:16

Lilo ji, for your information, even today in 2016, the Madras has a population of 40% naidu. ie if you don't know, juss saying...

Tamil Brahmins are 40% of the population of the Madras, ratios have not changed... Madras is still the unofficial capital city of Telugu Naidu's.... It's juss too far away from Tamilnadu you know... Juss saying again...

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 Sep 2016 19:18

TKiran wrote:Respected vinaji, what an irony, you are a Tambram, living in Bangalore, Kerala for the reason of great weather, supporting the Kannada chauvinists, you sure are living in 80's.

Times have changed, smell the kumbakonam digidi kaappi please, I can give many more anecdotal evidence of what Kannadigas did to Tamils in 1992, but I have painstakingly collected some data, to analyze the problem. The data may not be provable because I collected the data from Karnataka state government officials, only by mouth.

Dude, my family has been in Bangalore since 1950 atleast and I was very much here in Bangalore in 1991 ! Thanks, I know what goes on here.

Here's the analysis of the data that I collected. Bangalore, Kerala is at the very bottom end of Karnataka state, 50 km to North or 70km to East you get Andhra, 10 km to South you get Tamilnadu. In 70's hosur was as big and industrialized as Bangalore, in fact, Bangalore was nothing but BEL and HAL and HMT, but nothing else.

. Yeah whatever. Sun rises in the West. Hosur was a tiny non descript mofussul town /village back then.

Coming to the data, Hosur was 50% Telugu naidu(who spoke Tamil), and 20% Telugu Reddy (who spoke Kannada) in early 70's, naidu's because of shere numbers pushed the Reddy's towards Bangalore, and Reddy's literally migrated to Bangalore, and become land owners and increasingly thuggish. Though equal number of naidu's also migrated to Bangalore, they were not successful as land owners, they settled in between Hosur and Bangalore. In those days more than 50% population of Bangalore was Tamils. So the main competition to Reddy s was Tamils but Tamils mainly depended on entrepreneurship than land owning and were reluctant to part away with their lands, as their lands were also useful for their entrepreneurship.

1991-92 was God given chance for the Reddy's to instigate violence against Tamils through bangarappa. There was mass migration of Tamils of Bangalore, Kerala towards Coimbatore in those days due to terror instilled into them

Yeah .. The Telugus are the local population in the area to the north , east and south of Bangalore, infact the Andhra border is less than 10Kms from the road that goes from Hosur - Krishangiri to Vellore in places , infact the population there is significantly Telugu speaking. They dont need to push anyone from anywhere. They BELONG there.

By 2000 Reddy's realized that Bangalore has great potential for exponential growth, whenever opportunity presented, they would provoke the Kannada thugs to terrorize Tamils, today Bangalore has only 25-30% population of Tamils.

Fortunately for the Reddys, their great great grandfathers and anscestors already knew the potential of Bangalore since ancient times and have been living there.

Kannadigas (in the true sense) have always been marginal players in the real estate business of Bangalore. Bangalore has never been part of Karnataka in the true sense, as it's far removed from the core of Karnataka.

Yeah right.. If Old Mysore kingdom is not the "core" of Karnataka, I dont know what is!

Even today it's the Reddys who instigate the Kannada chauvinists against the Tamils. Your anecdotal experiences are far and few, the core issue is real estate of Bangalore, Kerala.

Take your hate mongering elsewhere. Compared to the thugs and the splinter groups of thugs in TN, the Kannada guys are angels. The hate politics in many ways a TN creation and export , and the Dravidian parties have the corner on it.

Believe me there are very few Kannadigas in Bangalore and hardly any Kannadigas in Tamilnadu than what you want us to believe.

Ok. Your 4 relatives in Bangalore is not the population of the city. I know it can lead to congnetive dissonance if you lock yourself up in a reverberation chamber, but that is the fact.

I was drinking with my neighbors last night until 11:30 pm, and yes, distinguished gentleman opened the bar in his home and he served me Glenfiddich and Macallan , and there were 9 of us and bulk were Kannadigas, all old Bangaloreans/ Mysore folks, and one north karnataka, one from coastal KA, one from Maharahstra and me and one telugu from Bangalore with roots in Namakkal/Karur/Salem! That would be rather typical of the population mix here.

csubash · Post by **csubash** » 13 Sep 2016 20:04

Take your hate mongering elsewhere. Compared to the thugs and the splinter groups of thugs in TN, the Kannada guys are angels. The hate politics in many ways a TN creation and export , and the Dravidian parties have the corner on it.

Ok Vina, TN thug is more of a thug than Karnataka's.

I was drinking with my neighbors last night until 11:30 pm, and yes, distinguished gentleman opened the bar in his home and he served me Glenfiddich and Macallan , and there were 9 of us and bulk were Kannadigas, all old Bangaloreans/ Mysore folks, and one north karnataka, one from coastal KA, one from Maharahstra and me and one telugu from Bangalore with roots in Namakkal/Karur/Salem! That would be rather typical of the population mix here.[/quote]

Speaking from your sanitized ivory tower.

Every time any issue of TN comes it always the dravidian party thugs which get blamed. Tell, how many times in the past 20-30 years has there been major riots in Chennai/TN against other state people or against Hindus or Muslims or Christians.

Doing == this time looks a bit rich - curfew in bangalore & other parts of S.Karnataka, 2 people dying in riot is == broken window panels in a hotel which was able to start service for lunch.

Like it or not the image of a cosmopolitan, educated, socially responsible Bangalore & a pleasant kannadiga has gone down a few notches.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Sep 2016 20:12

TKiran wrote:Respected vinaji, what an irony, you are a Tambram, living in Bangalore, Kerala for the reason of great weather, supporting the Kannada chauvinists, you sure are living in 80's.

Times have changed, smell the kumbakonam digidi kaappi please, I can give many more anecdotal evidence of what Kannadigas did to Tamils in 1992, but I have painstakingly collected some data, to analyze the problem. The data may not be provable because I collected the data from Karnataka state government officials, only by mouth.

Here's the analysis of the data that I collected. Bangalore, Kerala is at the very bottom end of Karnataka state, 50 km to North or 70km to East you get Andhra, 10 km to South you get Tamilnadu. In 70's hosur was as big and industrialized as Bangalore, in fact, Bangalore was nothing but BEL and HAL and HMT, but nothing else. Coming to the data, Hosur was 50% Telugu naidu(who spoke Tamil), and 20% Telugu Reddy (who spoke Kannada) in early 70's, naidu's because of shere numbers pushed the Reddy's towards Bangalore, and Reddy's literally migrated to Bangalore, and become land owners and increasingly thuggish. Though equal number of naidu's also migrated to Bangalore, they were not successful as land owners, they settled in between Hosur and Bangalore. In those days more than 50% population of Bangalore was Tamils. So the main competition to Reddy s was Tamils but Tamils mainly depended on entrepreneurship than land owning and were reluctant to part away with their lands, as their lands were also useful for their entrepreneurship.

1991-92 was God given chance for the Reddy's to instigate violence against Tamils through bangarappa. There was mass migration of Tamils of Bangalore, Kerala towards Coimbatore in those days due to terror instilled into them.

By 2000 Reddy's realized that Bangalore has great potential for exponential growth, whenever opportunity presented, they would provoke the Kannada thugs to terrorize Tamils, today Bangalore has only 25-30% population of Tamils. Kannadigas (in the true sense) have always been marginal players in the real estate business of Bangalore. Bangalore has never been part of Karnataka in the true sense, as it's far removed from the core of Karnataka.

Even today it's the Reddys who instigate the Kannada chauvinists against the Tamils. Your anecdotal experiences are far and few, the core issue is real estate of Bangalore, Kerala.

Believe me there are very few Kannadigas in Bangalore and hardly any Kannadigas in Tamilnadu than what you want us to believe.

Your post and data is not provable because its horse shit, plain and simple.

Old Bangalore has been Cottonpete, chikpete, KR Market areas, chamarajapete, Gandhi Bazaar, yediyur, malleswaram, basavangudi etc. Even now, population of kannadigas in these areas is above 70%. Jayanagar, JP nagar etc also have significant number of Kannadigas. We still remember many farmers and dairy farmers living in Hulimavu, Bannerghatta road etc who used to supply us milk from cows in old days, and buying tamarinds etc from them in late 70s and early 80s, all of them kannadigas. One of my close friends came from a multigenerational farmer family near Devanahalli where land was acquired for BLR airport. He used to tell us stories of land value shooting up from less than a lakh per acre to multiple lakhs/acre once airport plans were announced, again most of the people in their village being kannadigas.

Bangalore was developed by the Wodeyars. There are multiple colleges and institutions developed by the Wodeyar kings. Even IISc was started with grant of land and money by the Wodeyars. Kempegowda founded the city in 15th century and built four pillars marking the boundary of the city. Many temples built around that time including Gavi Gangadhareshwara temple, Dodda Ganesha temple in Basavanagudi etc are still famous.

When we were growing up, Hosur was a small town on Karnataka/TN border becoming well known after Ashok Leyland started their factory there. In fact, many people from Bangalore used to commute to Hosur for TVS and AL plants there, I personally knew a few in good positions, who would be provided company cars for commute. If Hosur was a such a well developed place, one would think people will stay there instead of staying in Bangalore?

Tamilians population increased in Bangalore due to erstwhile cantonment areas, and also many coming into jobs in public sector companies like HAL, BHEL, BEL etc. And at one time (even now to some extent), many of the labourer class were from TN. IN fact, thats why there are more tamilians in and around cantonment (Cox town, frazer town, shivajinagar etc) and also along the PSU quarters etc. Tamilans were mostly into white collar jobs/middle-class and below, and not much involved in real estate or land holding. Don't know where you got the idea that Telugus used thugs to push back tamilians as they posed no threat to them and didn't own much land also. Reddys were also big in Karnataka politics, so they bought land in areas that they knew were going to be regularized for residential areas. There were never more than 50% tamils in Bangalore. If I remember right, couple of years back too, you were peddling this same nonsense in one the multiple Telangana threads.

Reddys have always dominated parts of real estate business and to some extent film industry too. Telugus were more integrated with many of them able to read and write kannada quite well, compared to tamilians.

I don't know what made you wrote that post but half of it is just plain day-dreams. Like you said, its just unprovable because there is no facts supporting it.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 13 Sep 2016 20:58

Written by a leftist mallu female-Janaki Nair who obviously has no relish for kannadiga sub nationalism.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/nairpap.pdf

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 13 Sep 2016 21:16

There is significant amount of thuggery in Bangalore and significant amount of hatred against non Kannadigas. The level of violence against TN property - especially buses and lorries is causing serious damage to Bangalore's reputation. I am a decision maker in an MNC based in Bangalore and our work and productivity got really impacted in the last few days. If this nonsense continues any further, we will be forced to think about atleast moving parts of our business operations out of Bangalore.

If Naidu can build Amaravathi quickly or if TN can provide good incentives for companies to move their BPO to Coimbatore, many companies will be seriously considering it. Moving IT operations out of Bangalore is difficult due to availability of talent pool, but moving BPO isn't for most part that do not require specialized skill set.

In the long term, it will help reduce congestion and cool down real estate in Bangalore.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 13 Sep 2016 21:19

TKiran wrote:Lilo ji, for your information, even today in 2016, the Madras has a population of 40% naidu. ie if you don't know, juss saying...

Tamil Brahmins are 40% of the population of the Madras, ratios have not changed... Madras is still the unofficial capital city of Telugu Naidu's.... It's juss too far away from Tamilnadu you know... Juss saying again...

Let me just say the numbers you are quoting are total nonsense. No caste census or calculations by political parties support this theory that 80% of Chennai population are Naidus and Tamil Brahmins.

Naidus are at best about 15% of Chennai population in 2016. No one community has absolute majority there right now. There are fishermen, muslims, christians, Dalits, telugu reddys and naiads, Vanniars (probably the largest community in middle and south Chennai right now), Gounders, Thevars, Tamil Brahmins, Telugu Brahmins, North Indians, etc.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 13 Sep 2016 21:43

I think it is time we as Indians take an Indian view rather than a regional view. Growing up in Mysore (KA), I remember getting jingoistic about Cauvery and venting anger against TN and Tamilians in general. That approach that I and others was wrong.
I don't understand why KA and TN don't get together and work out a solution which works for all. SC is a waste of time.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Sep 2016 21:54

^^Apparently, they tried, but politicians screwed it. See the Rediff article posted above.

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 Sep 2016 22:16

TKiran wrote:Right now you are as confused as Arjuna who doesn't want to kill his grandpa, his own guru who taught him 'viluvidya' his own cousins and relatives and well wishers. Welcome to the world war between Kannadigas and Tamils in Bangalore, Kerala

Take your idiotic nonsense elsewhere. You pushed a Reddy vs Naidu conspiracy and are now into some equally outrageous hate mongering. This nonsense is like equating the vast populace of perfectly fine TN folks with the thuggery of the "Whatever Katchi/Kazhagam" goons that are littered in TN and their rabid rants. Off with you .

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 13 Sep 2016 22:55

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/how-will-burning-my-buses-solve-cauvery-issue-kpn-owner-natarajan-speaks-out-49789

KPN is a franchisee than actual owner.What shame and disgrace?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Sep 2016 23:13

TKiran wrote:Putnanja saare, in my very very honest opinion, the data I collected is very reliable, but if you say it's wrong, could you please tell me what is right?

1. Who are the prime benefactors of terrorizing Tamils in Bangalore? (If you deny the very fact that Kannadigas are terrorizing Tamils then either I have a cognitive dissonance or you, no point in arguing any further if you think == in this situation)

2. The main argument of Kannadigas is that they are living in huts in Bangalore, whereas Tamils are living in palaces. Do you agree with their argument? (If you don't agree with their argument, then why should the Kannadigas feel jealous of Tamils in Bangalore? Why this hatred?)
(And puhleez don't say Tamils wanted drinking water of Kannadigas to clean their behinds, as all these arguments were properly heard and supreme Court announced the verdict, there is no perfidy here of Tamils)

3. There are Kannadigas not more than 15% of population of Bangalore. True/False

4. I could have gone wrong with my analysis/conclusions, if you feel that my analysis is wrong, what's the correct analysis? (Puhleez don't bring in noise such as 'aryans' , 'dravida',
'British' 'world war iii', 'wodeyar' etc.

Let me also understand your point. ie if you have a point....

1. Other than Cauvery issue, there has never been any other anti-tamil riots b/w karnataka and TN. Even the issue of installing Tiruvullavar statue was opposed due to Cauvery issue, and not for any visceral anti-tamil hatred. Show me one non-cauvery related anti-tamil issue please if you believe otherwise. Its not like typical hindu-muslim riots that flare up every now and then for various reasons. Except cauvery issue, there has been no other anti-tamil riots at any time. And its not limited to bangalore. the riots happened in Mysore, Mandya too, the prime Cauvery irrigated areas.

2. Totally bullshit. No one cares a damn about where tamil, telugu or anyone else lives. The only issue is cauvery for anti-tamil violence. Here too, I would point out that no tamilian was hurt or killed (except for that one stupid engg student who was lighting fire at when grass was dry). When some of the trucks/cars were set on fire, people were asked to get out first. Like I mentioned earlier, lots of tamilian migrants, especially from Salem and surrounding areas were labourers, and many slums in BLR were occupied by tamils. And other tamilians were middle-class families. As a person who has grown up in Bangalore, we have had many middle-class tamil neighbours. In fact, the reddys and naidus were the one with more money and leading lavish lifestyles compared to tamilians.

3. Kannadigas account for 35-40% now in Bangalore. Earlier, till IT boom, it was even higher. With the influx of people from all over the country, the relative population has naturally gone down.

4. My point is that your argument is not worth the paper its written on, has no factual basis and is just ill formed opinion. People in Karnataka/Bangalore are for the most part live & let live. The only two things for which there is riots are cauvery issue, and when people from other parts of India settled in Blr try to make fun of Kannada or Kannada icons.

The reason I brought up Kempegowda and Wodeyars was to counter your argument that tamilians were more than 50% in BLR.

As I said, your arguments holds no water. The only reason I am responding is that someone reading your posts might think its the truth, buts its totally BS

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Sep 2016 23:20

KJo wrote:I think it is time we as Indians take an Indian view rather than a regional view. Growing up in Mysore (KA), I remember getting jingoistic about Cauvery and venting anger against TN and Tamilians in general. That approach that I and others was wrong.
I don't understand why KA and TN don't get together and work out a solution which works for all. SC is a waste of time.

Perhaps its just Jayalalitha trying to prove she has b***? Karunanidhi seemed to be more along the lines of "lets talk it out" types, as I remember one such time where both CMs met.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 14 Sep 2016 00:26

"Cauvery is the mother of the Kannadigas, so we cannot give the water to anybody else"

Vatal Nagaraj in 1992"

By that logic
Indus, Chenab belongs to Ladakh only.
Ganga, yamuna belongs to Uttarakhand only.
Ravi, Satluj, Beaus only for Himachal.
Brahamputra for Tibet only.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Sep 2016 01:27

putnanja wrote:
KJo wrote:I think it is time we as Indians take an Indian view rather than a regional view. Growing up in Mysore (KA), I remember getting jingoistic about Cauvery and venting anger against TN and Tamilians in general. That approach that I and others was wrong.
I don't understand why KA and TN don't get together and work out a solution which works for all. SC is a waste of time.
Perhaps its just Jayalalitha trying to prove she has b***? Karunanidhi seemed to be more along the lines of "lets talk it out" types, as I remember one such time where both CMs met.

the old coot is pushing the congi line and is asking the PM to mediate when the PM has no dog in this fight. The case is with the SC and no one should interfere now. Let the two state CMs talk and settle it or go back to the cauvery tribunal.

Siddu does not have the testimonials to tangle with JJ. He is very short tempered and gets abusive when confronted. JJ will wipe the floor with him, leaving him no option but to resign. The congis in KAR are banking on just such a result to dump siddharamiah.

If the two CMs meet, without the PM, she will ensure that siddu comes to chennai as a supplicant with folded hands or she will send her flunkey to a neutral venue.

JJ has got siddharamiah exactly where she wants him. Legally covered by the SC, she has siddhu slowly twisting in the wind and the congis losing face with the KAR voters. It's payback time for JJ, for all the humiliation that was heaped on her during the arrest drama and her prison time in Bangalore.

siddaramiah should have learned from karuna as to how vengeful JJ can be when offended and insulted. Siddu should now take care that his dhothi does not come off like karuna's did when karuna tangled with JJ.

siddu should have accorded her the courtesies due a fellow CM even if she was going to prison. He is anyway kissing khujliwals butt every time the dilli CM shows up in Bangalore, so why did he nastily go out of his way to appeal once again to the SC in her disproportionate assets case??

JJ does not keep good health and is also a severe diabetic with some toes amputated. No harm would have come if siddu had kept her in good humor by easing her time in the Bangalore jail by ensuring small courtesies and comforts, instead he was extremely nasty with her. Sadly, he can only tightly hang on to his dhoti now.

JJ's case was purposely moved to KAR by the mafia queen. It could just as easily have been sent to Andhra too. The congis could not stop JJ from taking Modi's side.

The congis are hell bent on dragging the PM into the mess, to embarrass him and the BJP before the KAR elections.

Modi, who knows fully well that he cannot do anything because JJ will not budge from her legal position, is skirting clear of the issue so far. Siddu is off to see him in dilli today and demand his intervention.

If she obliges Modi, she will first demand that all cases against her be dropped, which Modi is not going to do.

I think that TN has a lot of water left in the mettur dam, at least a month's worth of water for their complete irrigation purposes.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 14 Sep 2016 05:58

arshyam wrote:Thanks for the clarification Kashi saar, didn't mean to cause offence. Hope none was taken.

As for VN's statement, saw it on TimesNow over the past hour. ~~No links so far, at least that I am aware of~~.

Found it: http://www.timesnow.tv/india/video/naid ... fied/49222

Absolutely none taken

Thanks for the link.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 14 Sep 2016 06:27

Are we quoting V Nagaraj here? He is viewed as a Joker in entire KA.

Kannadigas are most liberal people I came across. I have lived in many states and KA is excellent for none Kannadigas in general. We can not say the same about TN or MH. There is always anti-outsider ideas in Mumbai also. Locals hate us here also.

Media always goes to town when something bad happens in the south of India. Never a good news. Further how come there are no serious incidents in TN? are they no happening or not being reported. We all know how selective the reports can be. Yes, bad things are going on in Bangalore. But how many people involved there? 500? 1000? Police failed to control even them.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 14 Sep 2016 06:44

^ Vattal Nagaraj is quoted here because his organization is terrorizing the population and burning TN owned property, if he is such a fringe element police could've easily locked him up rather than him sitting with Siddu passing jokes.

And what is with your vengeance on TN? Other state residents in Chennai and other cities of TN has never faced any problems, let it be the NE guys, Biharis or any other mon Tamil speaking population. There is no news from TN because there is no news, do you want some kannadigas to be beaten up to prove your point that TN is unsafe for outsiders??

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 14 Sep 2016 06:45

svenkat wrote:http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/how-will-burning-my-buses-solve-cauvery-issue-kpn-owner-natarajan-speaks-out-49789

KPN is a franchisee than actual owner.What shame and disgrace?

KPN is not a franchise, it is all owned by one organization and the owner is KPNatarajan based out of Salem.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 14 Sep 2016 08:16

TN in general is a recipient of natural resources, especially water. Their record when they are providers, of the same cauvery water to the farmers of Karaikal (Pondy) is dismal. IMHO violence on the TN side is less because at the end of the day they are getting the water they wanted. No one would loose a winning game.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 14 Sep 2016 08:30

KPN is like a franchise.He allows people with money to run buses under KPN brand for some %.This is ground up news not legal formality.

williams · Post by **williams** » 14 Sep 2016 08:43

Tamil Nadu has less surface water but a lot more ground water resources. It is the massive mismanagement of natural resources that has caused acute scarcity of water. first off the mismanagement of soil and native vegetation in the mountain areas (Eastern and Western Ghats) is criminal. Those native plants have rich fibrous root system that is essential to hold water that get collected during the rainy seasons. These systems act as natural reservoirs that can keep the rivers perennial. Unmanaged growth of tea and other exotic plantation and utter disregard for the environment has destroyed these systems now. So in the rainy season there is floods and in other seasons there is water scarcity. Projects to create an integrated ground water management system with reservoirs and pipeline systems was envisioned during the Nehru-Kamraj period. These projects filled the pockets of babus and netas, but nothing of effect is done till today. Until the old ADMK-DMK regimes die there is no hope here. It is really sad that we are talking about desalination plants in a state that should be having surplus natural water for both domestic and agricultural consumption. Hopefully lessons are learnt from the floods and these water scarcity cycles. Sadly Modi Sarkar has very little say in this state. Amma could do it if she wills. But I am not sure if she is getting good advice.

vina · Post by **vina** » 14 Sep 2016 09:54

chandrasekaran wrote:TN in general is a recipient of natural resources, especially water. Their record when they are providers, of the same cauvery water to the farmers of Karaikal (Pondy) is dismal. IMHO violence on the TN side is less because at the end of the day they are getting the water they wanted. No one would loose a winning game.

I am not sure . You are talking about the "Periyar/Whatever - Katchi/Kazhagam" . Those goons are dumber than a bag of stones. That gave the excuse to the goons over here in KA (with the KA govt trying to mollycoddle them the day before and it blew up in their faces) to go on a rampage. The "Periyar/Whatever - Katchi/Kazhagam" types basically shot TN in the foot, even when the court decision was favourable to it.

I can't imagine what would have happened in TN if the court had agreed with KA and agreed to a stop in late release.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Sep 2016 10:01

Uday U Lalit. The supreme Court judge who is hearing kaveri issue was appointed as supreme court judge in 2014

Before that he was Jayalalitha's lawyer for 15 years..

(A News article from 2013..........)

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-da ... or-1881461

He was the lawyer who handled Jayalalitha's cases against Karnataka government

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Sep 2016 11:09

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/c ... ncies.html

Bengaluru:

Watch out for September 19. A reported specific warning from multiple Intelligence agencies to the state government for September 19, when the Cauvery Supervisory Committee will meet to decide on the quantum of water that should be released to Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Puducherry from the Cauvery basin, has tightened the noose around the state administration, which failed to secure the IT City from Monday violence.

“The state government should make adequate and foolproof security arrangements for the September 19 meeting. The security situation in Karnataka is fragile and the smallest trigger can be catastrophic for the people and the government. The Intel had warned the state that there were efforts to replay the 1991 Cauvery riots on September 9. The government and the police should have made stringent preparations to counter any fallout of the Supreme Court verdict on Monday and for the next fortnight. There should have been a timely deployment of central forces, which should be asked to stay till the state returns to normal. The government was initially soft on the agitators, who had assured that they would stage peaceful protests at the injustice to Karnataka and the police also took it easy, but later the mobs took to streets and things went out of control,” said an officer on condition of anonymity.

Meanwhile, the name of a fringe group of Right Wing women activists has reportedly surfaced in Monday’s arson. “There is information that some arsonists, who were identified and arrested reportedly, told the police that they owed allegiance to the fringe women’s group, which has Right Wing leanings. This information, however, needs to be confirmed for surveillance,” he added.

‘IT company makes staff work for late hours’
Robin Thomas, an IT professional has accused a private company named ‘24/7’ for forcing its employees to work beyond office hours. The complainant took to social media site Facebook and wrote, “When most of Bengarulu companies are concerned about their employee’s safety, here is one that keeps their employees over-work without letting them go home. In the light of incidents where the mob has attacked company’s working during strikes, this company should be penalized.”

When DC contacted Robin Thomas, he said, “The Company by name 24/7, located at Prestige Tech Park in Kadubeesanahalli. Not only one employee but many were stuck in the office.”

He further said, “When the company had a window to send then home at around 5 pm yesterday, they didn’t and made them wait till 10 pm. As the situation became tense no buses or cabs were plying on roads. So employees had no other option apart from staying back which they did and continued working.”

The company policy strictly forbids against the usage of personal phone, so the employees inside don't exactly know the situation outside. “When most employees of other companies made it back home early at around 6 or 7 pm to avoid the effects of strike on Monday, this company chose to retain employees and kept them working. I wonder the working mothers and parents who never got to leave that office,” added Thomas. When DC tried to contact the company there was no response from them.

Agitators target farmhouse of Karunanidhi’s daughter
The members of the Samata Sainik Dal tried to lay siege to the farmhouse belonging to former Tamil Nadu chief minister M. Karunanidhi’s daughter S. Selvi, at Vaderahalli village in Harohalli Hobli of Kanakapura taluk in Ramanagar on Tuesday.

Over 50 activists of the organisation tried to enter the farm house. However, the jurisdictional police, who had already made security arrangements anticipating trouble, foiled their attempt. Verbal duel ensued between the agitators and the policemen, when they were stopped.

The agitators demanded that the district administration should seize the property. Further, they demanded to protection to Kannadigas living in Tamil Nadu and action against those who assaulted Kannadigas there.

The farm house spread across 10 acres was purchased by Ms. Selvi around 15 years ago. Mr Karunanidhi visits the farm house once every year. Even Selvi visits the farmhouse once or twice in a year, the villagers said

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 14 Sep 2016 11:32

svenkat wrote:KPN is like a franchise.He allows people with money to run buses under KPN brand for some %.This is ground up news not legal formality.

Not sure where you heard this, but I know the KPN family well and they own all the bus, transport and other things outright.

csubash · Post by **csubash** » 14 Sep 2016 12:56

From chetak, chandrasekaran, vina & yagnasri's post above , it looks as if the violence against TN & Tamils properties deserve this as TN seems to have exploited Cauvery & Karnataka from time immemorial. Every one has given suggestions for TN - how to use water efficiently, how to extract ground water, which crop to plant, which party to vote. TN people in Karnataka few of them whom I have spoke to are in morbid fear even to speak in Tamil in a public place. I'm sure more Tamil people will leave bangalore/ Karnataka in the future many being born & brought up in Karnataka. Every party be it sadananda gowda or siddhu or vattal Nagaraj all have squarely blamed TN for the current problem when clearly this was from the apex court of the country. Ascribing motive to SC judge ( not that they are angels) & KJo asking to ignore SC all makes federalism a joke. Sorry for a bad rant - saying "sorry " is a powerful weapon which is seldom used now.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 14 Sep 2016 13:20

A tamilian businessman(trustworthy with very good contacts in Namakkal) from bengaluru gave me that information.I have no first hand knowledge.

vina · Post by **vina** » 14 Sep 2016 13:30

csubash wrote:From chetak, chandrasekaran, vina & yagnasri's post above , it looks as if the violence against TN & Tamils properties deserve this as TN seems to have exploited Cauvery & Karnataka from time immemorial. Every one has given suggestions for TN - how to use water efficiently, how to extract ground water, which crop to plant, which party to vote. TN people in Karnataka few of them whom I have spoke to are in morbid fear even to speak in Tamil in a public place. I'm sure more Tamil people will leave bangalore/ Karnataka in the future many being born & brought up in Karnataka. Every party be it sadananda gowda or siddhu or vattal Nagaraj all have squarely blamed TN for the current problem when clearly this was from the apex court of the country. Ascribing motive to SC judge ( not that they are angels) & KJo asking to ignore SC all makes federalism a joke. Sorry for a bad rant - saying "sorry " is a powerful weapon which is seldom used now.

Make NO MISTAKE. What happened on Monday was an orchestrated political violence. This time it was organised under a Congress govt and the left/liberal/secular media are very silent on it and not calling it out for what it is.. There are multiple theories floating around who organised it, which faction and why, and was there a tacit understanding between the protestors and then the entire thing went out of control and blew up in their faces. This has shades of the riots that were organised in Hyderabad in the old days to get rid of Channa Reddy as the CM

This is NOT an ethnic fight between Kannada speakers and Tamil speakers. It an organised political riot, who called up the usual Rent-a-Hoodlum groups and the low level thugs,to target the property of a particular set of people. The state failed miserably in it's duty to protect the property of all the citizens , and indeed might have been complicit.

You should hold the feet of the Congress , especially the of TN Congress guys , and also of that Old Coot, who is now making "Congress like noises" and calling for central "mediation", to the fire, for being complicit and acqueiscing to it.

So coming to saying "Sorry" . Who is responsible for it ? Not my neighbours, not my friends, not spouses and their extended family of people whom my relatives and friends married , not people whom I do business with. So who ? Should it be the Govt of KA ? Should it be the ruling party for their failure and possible complicity ?

And oh, for the DK/Veeramani /Peryiar Whatever group that went after their "Beef eating and Thali removal" event and then went up and cut the sacred threads and bashed up a couple of people who were visibly Brahmins, which included an 80 year old man and a 12 year old child (such heroic figures, these goons) . So who should say sorry to them ? The TN Govt, the ruling party, the ordinary people of TN ?

And pray, how much jail time did those goons get (including the post IITM Ambedkar Periyar event goons) . Are they out on bail ? Are they the same repeat offenders who bashed up Woodlands ? Will they get prosecuted on provisions on on anti hate laws / national security laws that make promoting enmity against a set of people a crime ?

I think you are confused between the Kaveri dispute (which should be settled in court and the verdict accepted) , the politicking and jockeying around that historically in the Mandya belt (by Congress and JD S and their factions) , the goons for hire and the hate mongers (TN historically unfortunately was the master here, the KA guys are rather ingenues ) , and the ordinary people of KA and TN irrespective of ethnicity.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 14 Sep 2016 13:40

csubash wrote:From chetak, chandrasekaran, vina & yagnasri's post above , it looks as if the violence against TN & Tamils properties deserve this as TN seems to have exploited Cauvery & Karnataka from time immemorial

Please stop misrepresenting others.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Sep 2016 13:52

csubash wrote:From chetak, chandrasekaran, vina & yagnasri's post above , it looks as if the violence against TN & Tamils properties deserve this as TN seems to have exploited Cauvery & Karnataka from time immemorial. Every one has given suggestions for TN - how to use water efficiently, how to extract ground water, which crop to plant, which party to vote. TN people in Karnataka few of them whom I have spoke to are in morbid fear even to speak in Tamil in a public place. I'm sure more Tamil people will leave bangalore/ Karnataka in the future many being born & brought up in Karnataka. Every party be it sadananda gowda or siddhu or vattal Nagaraj all have squarely blamed TN for the current problem when clearly this was from the apex court of the country. Ascribing motive to SC judge ( not that they are angels) & KJo asking to ignore SC all makes federalism a joke. Sorry for a bad rant - saying "sorry " is a powerful weapon which is seldom used now.

And apparently, it is only TN that is supposed to use water efficiently and change its crop patterns. No such suggestions for KA, or BLR which depends 80% on Kaveri water.

And what happens if TN decides to bite the bullet and move away from paddy? Remember, it is one of the top producers of rice in India. Is there enough production elsewhere in the country to make up for the shortfall, or do we have to import again?

Lastly, where is the penalty to the KA govt for not following SC's orders? Don't we have a constitution? TN only went to the SC as it should in a constitutional system; yet it somehow gets blamed for everything under the sun. TN too could have chosen the route of agitations and bandhs, etc., but wisely didn't this time. Next time, who knows, considering how KA got away with thumbing its nose at the SC, it has set a precedent for the rest of the country to follow.

I have been trying to look at the issue dispassionately over the past week, but it is extremely difficult to feel much sympathy at this point. Sorry for the rant, but am tired of defending one's position without partisanship, when others have no such qualms.

P.S. I agree with vina to the extent that this violence is NOT an issue between ordinary Tamilians and Kannadigas. Definitely politically motivated. However, the problem is many ordinary people here in BLR are taking the easy route and blaming TN for asking for more water than KA, when geography dictates it actually should. This formation of impressions based on false facts is not healthy in the long term.

P.P.S. I am not taking a holier-than-thou attitude here, since TN is equally capable of violence if things go the other way. After all, dial-a-goonda is a national asset. But every such incident is damaging the country in the long term and should be curbed aggressively.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 14 Sep 2016 13:59

arshyam wrote:And apparently, it is only TN that is supposed to use water efficiently and change its crop patterns. No such suggestions for KA, or BLR which depends 80% on Kaveri water.

That is a surprisingly false characterization of whatever discussion on water efficiency which took place in the past few days on this thread.

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viewtopic.php?p=2043645#p2043645
viewtopic.php?p=2043630#p2043630

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 14 Sep 2016 14:30

Whatever I posted is based on my experience of living in TN for more than 15 months. Not Chennai but in semi-urban/rural TN. I also said that MH & Mumbai local people also have "some sort of evil outsiders" ideas. In KA there are many local languages, like Tulu, Kurgi, Konkani, and it also helps to make it more cosmopolitan in nature.

It is tough for guys like me to live in TN even though I can understand a little bit of Tamil. The problem may be that we can not communicate with people as most of them are not knowing other languages. It may be because the political leaders ensured people do not learn other languages.

Outsider stealing water is an idea promoted in KA AP, TS and also in TN regularly. Media also creates a lot of visuals out of small incidences to suit its agenda.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Sep 2016 14:37

Lilo wrote:
arshyam wrote:And apparently, it is only TN that is supposed to use water efficiently and change its crop patterns. No such suggestions for KA, or BLR which depends 80% on Kaveri water.
That is a surprisingly false characterization of whatever discussion on water efficiency which took place in the past few days on this thread.

viewtopic.php?p=2043991#p2043991
viewtopic.php?p=2043645#p2043645
viewtopic.php?p=2043630#p2043630

Not when one interacts with folks on the ground here in BLR. BRF discussions are fine, but unfortunately, the aam aadmi does not think in terms of country first.

vina · Post by **vina** » 14 Sep 2016 14:50

arshyam wrote: Not when one interacts with folks on the ground here in BLR. BRF discussions are fine, but unfortunately, the aam aadmi does not think in terms of country first.

The average man knows little more about this than the fact that rains have been deficient. He is not Phd in Agronomy. And this is a once in a 2 decade problem . In a normal year there is sufficient water in the Kaveri (for current use, don't know if that will be the case 2 decades from now).

The problem is poor leadership. There is no incentive for anyone to think beyond their narrow constituent interests. This is a problem that cannot be solved within one's boundaries , but spans the entire basin and looking it as a whole and must be fixed with proper pricing of water (which will automatically allocate it efficiently) , relook at the way farm gate incentives are given (MSP etc) . The current structure of the politics and the laws don't allow such solutions . So it is a tough problem to solve "holistically" . It therefore WILL end up in the courts and you will get a sub optimal Non Pareto maximising solution. Unfortunate, but that is the way it is.

If you want Pareto optimal solutions, the requirement is 1) Trust 2) Proper incentives 3) Enforcement against cheating /violating trust 4) Recognise that one side will gain more than the other , but the side with lesser gain will still be better off than in the non Pareto solution case.

I will have deep trouble selling that in a more rational corporate setting. It will take tremendous leadership to do it in the context competitive shrill politics. Can Karunanidhi do it ? Jayalalitha possibly can. Who can do it in the KA side, especially when you have to step out and say that we will give control of the river to a neutral regulatory authority that will do it technocratically.

Talk is cheap , especially when you are in opposition and the other sucker pays the political price, and paves the way for you.

Pareto Efficiency

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 14 Sep 2016 18:03

Yesterday in the India Today News Channel's news show at 9 PM IST conducted by Rajdeep Sardesai - Mr.Dinesh Gundu Rao - the current Karnataka Pradesh Congress Party leader & a former Minister & son of former Karnataka CM Gundu Rao ... stated that on the afternoon/evening of 12th September 2016 (when the KPN Travels bus depot was completely set to fire by thugs in Bengaluru) the state government & Karnataka had been shocked by the rebukes given by the SC earlier in the day and had allowed the mobs to vent their fury for some time before rushing the police into action to control them ... but things went out of control 'a little bit' before normalcy returned.

So the state government is actually complicit in this recent bout of violence inflicted mainly on TN origin businesses/establishments & properties with affiliation to TN (whether KPN Travels or Adyar Ananda Bhavan or the numerous trucks & cars with TN registration plates). What a shame !!!.

In the same show - when Rajdeep asked the AIADMK rep about why Jayalalithaa is not talking with the media/public on this issue - he criticized Mr.Dinesh Gundu Rao and Rajdeep for asking such a query... stating what succour will the common man on the ground get by the CM talking with the Media when there are more important law & order issues in hand to be dealt with. The AIADMK guy stated that the TN CM had specifically ensured special security for all Kannadiga based establishments & areas and that more than 30 branches of Karnataka Banks alone in Chennai were functioning with additional police security and that nearly 200 additional police personnel were ensuring that the KSRTC buses (& drivers + conductors) in Chennai's Moffussial Bus Terminus at Koyambedu were kept safe from any damages by miscreants and that more such measures were taken for Karnataka based tourist vehicles in other parts of TN also - inspite of the heavy damages inflicted on Tamils & their properties in Karnataka.

See the India Today news show's video showing up in this tweet ( https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/7 ... 9172503552 ) and this is the show that i am alluding to.

I hope the Karnataka state govt. can be taken to court - If proper compensation is not paid for the affected folks/businesses once they have filed the FIR & followed up on related criminal case & compensation request filings. The Karnataka CM has announced 10 lakhs INR for those killed by the police during the rioting. There is a similarity to the past when it comes to payment of relief amount of many crores to the victims of violence by the Karnataka state's Cauvery Riot Relief Authority under the supervision of the Supreme Court - when more than 20 Tamilians were killed across Karnataka in the Cauvery Riots of the year 1991 during Bangarappa's time as CM of Karnataka. This specific case went on for nearly 20 years before the Supreme Court conclusively stated in 2004 that the Karnataka SG had to pay compensation for the victims of violence (many of whom had returned back to TN, fearing for their life). The actual payments though happened only in 2011/2012.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 14 Sep 2016 18:05

Anyone really care to think why this violence erupted 3 days after the 15K cu secs award and not immediately? The reason is one person in BLR posts something derogatory about KA and gets beaten. The revenge is attack on Chennai hotel and some tourists gets beaten in Rameswaram and gets posted on Facebook and then by afternoon, situation goes out of control. Frankly, kannadigas have taken worse decisions than this . For some of the decision makers who want to move away from bangalore, the temprature has already reached 39, traffic density is worse and real estate is over the roof. Please move wherever needed. I have seen some decision makers moving to Pune and then back.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 14 Sep 2016 18:23

It like a tap. You allow things happen and then stop it when you want. Con Mafia does this regularly during riots. That is what they did now in KA. Now CM has gone to Delhi to meet NM. What NM can do in this situation? Nothing.

By the way what pappu doing on this? Nothing as usual.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 14 Sep 2016 19:12

Yagnasri wrote:Whatever I posted is based on my experience of living in TN for more than 15 months. Not Chennai but in semi-urban/rural TN. I also said that MH & Mumbai local people also have "some sort of evil outsiders" ideas. In KA there are many local languages, like Tulu, Kurgi, Konkani, and it also helps to make it more cosmopolitan in nature.

It is tough for guys like me to live in TN even though I can understand a little bit of Tamil. The problem may be that we can not communicate with people as most of them are not knowing other languages. It may be because the political leaders ensured people do not learn other languages.

Outsider stealing water is an idea promoted in KA AP, TS and also in TN regularly. Media also creates a lot of visuals out of small incidences to suit its agenda.

Yagnasri Sir,

I would not agree with portions of your above post.

Have you heard of Tamils in Tamil Nadu ganging up against other ethnic people with in their state and inflicting violence upon them in the manners seen in Karnataka and then driving them out of TN ?. I can indicate to you many many instances of how non-Tamilians have vouched for the state of TN, prospered in TN (whether they are in business or films or sports or in other fields) and made it big.

Read about Tamils in Karnataka. Tamils have been in non-trivial numbers & largest ethnic minority in Bengaluru (nearly 22% of population of BLR some 25 years before) even before the liberalization of Indian economy started.

Now if you were a Tamil - based on what has happened to them in Karnataka during Cauvery River related riots in 1991 and now in September 2016 cauvery river sharing riots, the heavy damage inflicted on Tamil business establishments & related properties - what would your opinion be about how some Kannada folks treat Tamils during such periods when court spells out its orders over disputes between both the state governments ?.

13 Sep 2016 - Bangalore Mirror : A Section of Tamils moves out

Let's see how many first generation Tamils (many folks working in IT, R&D & technology areas) will be returning back to TN - after this current bout of violence in Bengaluru & nearby districts of Karnataka.

A 2008 based article (Inquiry panel for any, every convenience!) in the Deccan Herald newspaper has the below detail .... so these types of targeted violence against Tamils in Karnataka is now starting to become a regular feature and it might well continue into the future.

.
.
Cut to year 1991. Bangalore witnessed unprecedented violence on December 13, 1991 and subsequent days in the wake of gazette notification of the interim order of the Cauvery River Water Disputes Tribunal.

As many as 23 people lost their lives besides massive destruction of property. The government constituted the Justice N D Venkatesh Commission to probe the anti-Tamil violence. In its report the commission attributed the collapse of the law and order in Bangalore to the failure of policy machinery. The report even pointed out that the home minister and other top officers of the police department had failed to anticipate events and take preventive action.

The commission made a number of valuable suggestions to prevent the recurrence of such incidents in the future. These involved the administrative, civic and infrastructural aspects of the city’s development and measures like setting up of a separate ministry of Bangalore agglomeration. However, the suggestions have remained only on paper.

There are also instances where the government has not even made the report public.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 14 Sep 2016 19:38

^^^arent you contradicting yourself by posting the link? The Tamil sangha adhyaksha has himself thanked the chief minister for security and has said no attack has happened except that of santosh after he made derogatory attacks and if some one has to stay back due to phobia, what can we say. As far as the saintly Tamils are concerned they have directly attacked people of Karnataka by beating up a tourist and many people are giving interviews on how people were treated even in police stations and in hotels. As far as language based regionalism is concerned, everyone knows who supported assassination of the PM just to support fellow language brethren from the other country.