India-Africa News and Discussion

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chetak
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

@MinhazMerchant·Aug 11

Carving up of #Africa into colonies by European leaders at the infamous 1884 Berlin conference was the second atrocity on Africa by Europe after the 300-year-long transatlantic slave trade from Africa to North & South America.

Principal culprits: Britain, France, Spain & Portugal
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by chanakyaa »

One more French influence bites the dust

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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Niger has declared the French ambassador PNG and asked him to leave in 48hrs. As per Vienna convention they have every right to do so. Macron comically refused to get him out saying he doesn't recognise the new regime and put the amb and his staff in danger, coz once declared as PNG he doesn't enjoy any diplomatic immunity or security from the host country.

Now Niger has increased price of uranium ore from 0.8 € to 200 € per kg.

Macron is fuming and wants ECOWAS to wage a war, while trying to pull out his own solders - there are at least several thousand stationed in Niger.

https://spectacle.com.ng/2023/09/03/nig ... o-e200-kg/

I hope someone talks some sense to him when he lands in India for G20.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Haresh »

Cyrano wrote: 06 Sep 2023 19:05 Niger has declared the French ambassador PNG and asked him to leave in 48hrs. As per Vienna convention they have every right to do so. Macron comically refused to get him out saying he doesn't recognise the new regime and put the amb and his staff in danger, coz once declared as PNG he doesn't enjoy any diplomatic immunity or security from the host country.

Now Niger has increased price of uranium ore from 0.8 € to 200 € per kg.

Macron is fuming and wants ECOWAS to wage a war, while trying to pull out his own solders - there are at least several thousand stationed in Niger.

https://spectacle.com.ng/2023/09/03/nig ... o-e200-kg/

I hope someone talks some sense to him when he lands in India for G20.
This is the reason the Europeans are despised, they just view Africa as a big hole that provides them with "things"

A quick Google shows the "price of Uranium ore per kg"
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uranium

The Europeans do not want the Africans to come to their "garden" yet pay them a pittance for their produce and then laugh and deride them because they are poor and cannot develop their own nations. The whole situation could have been avoided if they just paid them a fair price in the first place.
What idiots
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

not india related as of now
https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/the ... in-africa/
In an attempt to counter this influence, the US is injecting millions into the Lobito Corridor project. Indeed, sourcing the metals to fuel the energy transition remains a headache for Western countries. The commodity trade consortium Trafigura asserts that the Lobito Atlantic Railway will “provide a quicker western route to market for metal and minerals produced in the Democratic Republic of Congo.” The project entails the construction of approximately 550 km of rail line in Zambia, from the Jimbe border to Chingola in the Zambian copper belt, along with 260 km of feeder roads within the corridor. Moving those valuable resources from the Central African copper belt to Western markets is key for the US and Europe, particularly as the energy transition unfolds.

Earlier this year, President Joe Biden’s administration unveiled plans to invest in a new railway project that will link the copper-rich regions of Zambia and the Democratic Republic of Congo to the Angolan port of Lobito. With the 120-year-old Benguela railway, the US plans for the resources to go west (through the Lobito Corridor) rather than the traditional eastern route via the Dar El Salaam port. The railway hopes to connect to the port in Lobito, ensuring smooth traffic flow and establishing a significant trade route from the Congolese copper belt to the Atlantic Ocean. Additionally, the improved railway line will facilitate the transportation of essential goods and resources into the region, fostering business development and commercial activities. In September, on the margins of the G20 in India, the US and the EU teamed up to launch feasibility studies for a new greenfield rail line expansion between Zambia and Angola.

Global and regional organizations are also chipping in the project, as the push to secure the minerals key to the green transition grows. In October, the African Development Bank (AfDB) joined global partners to raise financing for the $16 billion Multinational Lobito Transportation Corridor Programme. The AfDB’s involvement underscores the importance of collaboration in securing funding for large-scale infrastructure projects that can drive economic development and regional integration in Africa. The World Bank also got involved through a $300 million “Accelerating Economic Diversification and Job Creation Project” which will directly link to the Lobito Corridor. Notably, the organization hadn’t financed an infrastructure project in Africa since 2002.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

not strictly india related

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/wh ... war-207501
A year ago, Tigrayan and Ethiopian officials met in Pretoria to sign a cessation of hostilities agreement. The Pretoria Accords were supposed to end the Tigray War, which had claimed an estimated 600,000 lives.

However, Abiy Ahmed was, in fact, only establishing a regional alliance to consolidate a particular nationalistic and authoritarian model across the Horn of Africa. In Ethiopia, he allied with Ethiopian and Amhara nationalists. Regionally, Abiy Ahmed allied with Somalia’s President Mohamed Abdullahi and Eritrea’s Isaias Afwerki, culminating in the signing of the Tripartite Agreement in September 2018. A central motivation behind the alliance was their shared opposition to multi-national federalism and ethno-nationalist politics in the region. They saw the growing assertiveness and the institutional recognition that ethno-national groups had attained across the Horn of Africa as a threat to their personal power as well as a recipe for weakening their states.
The Amhara and Ethiopian nationalists and Eritrea would help Abiy Ahmed consolidate his autocracy, and in return, it was expected that he would legalize Amhara conquest and annexation of Tigrayan territory, eliminate ethno-national groups in Oromia and Tigray, and eventually dismantle Ethiopia’s multi-national-federalism.
Abiy Ahmed had until recently not publicly responded to Eritrea’s internal meddling and violations of Ethiopian sovereignty. However, in the past weeks, the Ethiopian government has been agitating the public to restore what the prime minister calls Ethiopia’s “historic and natural right” to a Red Sea outlet. In addition to documentaries and public statements propagating the message that Ethiopia had been deprived of an inalienable right to a sea outlet, a military parade was held in Addis Ababa recently where soldiers were chanting, “The sea is ours, and the ship is ours.” Although Eritrea has not been mentioned by name in these statements, it is implicitly understood that it—and specifically its Assab Port—is the target of the messaging.

Despite the rhetoric, several factors may still deter Ethiopia and Eritrea from escalating their conflict to a full-scale war. The Ethiopian army is bogged down in the Amhara region and is still recovering from the war in Tigray. The Eritrean military also lost many troops in the last war and would unlikely want to confront a well-resourced Ethiopian army under the leadership of experienced Tigrayan commanders.

On the other hand, a tit-for-tat escalation and a strategic culture characterized by deep suspicion may lead one of the parties to conduct a pre-emptive strike that escalates to a full-blown war. Moreover, beyond rhetoric, there are also indications of practical preparations for war. This includes increased shipments of weapons from the UAE and the export of new drones from Turkey to Ethiopia. Increased mobilization of troops on both sides of the border has also been reported. Both the Ethiopian and Eritrean governments have also been busy trying to appeal for the support of local leaders from the Afar people who reside on both sides of the common border.
according to robert kaplan, modern day ethiopia is an empire successor, rather than the usual nation state, this means that the different regions are basically independent entities or used to be so, the tigrayans amassed a lot of wealth and patronage during the earlier ethiopian years, the other "kingdoms" and this includes the eritreans have now taken amongst themselves to cut a powerful rival to size
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/terrorism-in-africa/
America’s Global War on Terror has seen its share of stalemates, disasters, and outright defeats. During 20-plus years of armed interventions, the United States has watched its efforts implode in spectacular fashion, from Iraq in 2014 to Afghanistan in 2021. The greatest failure of its “Forever Wars,” however, may not be in the Middle East, but in Africa.

The raw numbers alone speak to the depths of the disaster. As the United States was beginning its Forever Wars in 2002 and 2003, the State Department counted a total of just nine terrorist attacks in Africa. This year, militant Islamist groups on that continent have, according to the Pentagon, already conducted 6,756 attacks. In other words, since the United States ramped up its counterterrorism operations in Africa, terrorism has spiked 75,000%.
In Africa, the U.S. launched a parallel campaign in the early 2000s, supporting and training African troops from Mali in the west to Somalia in the east and creating proxy forces that would fight alongside American commandos. To carry out its missions, the U.S. military set up a network of outposts across the northern tier of the continent, including significant drone bases – from Camp Lemonnier and its satellite outpost Chabelley Airfield in the sun-bleached nation of Djibouti to Air Base 201 in Agadez, Niger — and tiny facilities with small contingents of American special operations troops in nations ranging from Libya and Niger to the Central African Republic and South Sudan.
“We came, we saw, he died,” Secretary of State Hillary Clinton joked after a U.S.-led NATO air campaign helped overthrow Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi, the longtime Libyan dictator, in 2011. President Barack Obama hailed the intervention as a success, but Libya slipped into near-failed-state status. Obama would later admit that “failing to plan for the day after” Qaddafi’s defeat was the “worst mistake” of his presidency.

As the Libyan leader fell, Tuareg fighters in his service looted his regime’s weapons caches, returned to their native Mali, and began to take over the northern part of that nation. Anger in Mali’s armed forces over the government’s ineffective response resulted in a 2012 military coup. It was led by Amadou Sanogo, an officer who learned English in Texas and underwent infantry-officer basic training in Georgia, military-intelligence instruction in Arizona, and was mentored by U.S. Marines in Virginia.

Having overthrown Mali’s democratic government, Sanogo and his junta proved hapless in battling terrorists. With the country in turmoil, those Tuareg fighters declared an independent state, only to be muscled aside by heavily armed Islamists who instituted a harsh brand of Shariah law, causing a humanitarian crisis. A joint Franco-American-African mission prevented Mali’s complete collapse but pushed the militants into areas near the borders of both Burkina Faso and Niger.


Such relentless attacks have destabilized Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger and are now affecting their southern neighbors along the Gulf of Guinea. Violence in Togo and Benin has, for example, jumped 633% and 718% over the last year, according to the Pentagon.
American-mentored military personnel in that region have had only one type of demonstrable “success”: overthrowing governments the United States trained them to protect. At least 15 officers who benefited from such assistance have been involved in 12 coups in West Africa and the greater Sahel during the war on terror. The list includes officers from Burkina Faso (2014, 2015, and twice in 2022); Chad (2021); Gambia (2014); Guinea (2021); Mali (2012, 2020, and 2021); Mauritania (2008); and Niger (2023). At least five leaders of a July coup in Niger, for example, received American assistance, according to a U.S. official. They, in turn, appointed five U.S.-trained members of the Nigerien security forces to serve as that country’s governors.

“Terrorists associated with Al Qaeda and indigenous terrorist groups have been and continue to be a presence in this region,” a senior Pentagon official claimed in 2002. “These terrorists will, of course, threaten U.S. personnel and facilities.” But when pressed about an actual spreading threat, the official admitted that even the most extreme Islamists “really have not engaged in acts of terrorism outside Somalia.” Despite that, U.S. Special Operations forces were dispatched there in 2002, followed by military aid, advisers, trainers, and private contractors.

More than 20 years later, U.S. troops are still conducting counterterrorism operations in Somalia, primarily against the Islamist militant group al-Shabaab. To this end, Washington has provided billions of dollars in counterterrorism assistance, according to a recent report by the Costs of War Project. Americans have also conducted more than 280 air strikes and commando raids there, while the CIA and special operators built up local proxy forces to conduct low-profile military operations.
While the 75,000% increase in terror attacks and 42,500% increase in fatalities over the last two decades are nothing less than astounding, the most recent increases are no less devastating. “A 50-percent spike in fatalities tied to militant Islamist groups in the Sahel and Somalia over the past year has eclipsed the previous high in 2015,” according to a July report by the Africa Center for Strategic Studies, a Defense Department research institution. “Africa has experienced a nearly four-fold increase in reported violent events linked to militant Islamist groups over the past decade… Almost half of that growth happened in the last 3 years.”

Earlier this year, General Michael Langley, the current AFRICOM commander, offered what may be the ultimate verdict on America’s Forever Wars on that continent. “Africa,” he declared, “is now the epicenter of international terrorism.”
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Haresh »

India is not mentioned in this, but the opportunities are there, just deal fairly with Africa and the future is bright for both sides.
The West just cannot understand why the current influx of Africans has been caused by their own behaviour towards Africa

Success is contagious - so I’m rooting for the African countries throwing off European rule

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rkina-faso
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

not strictly india related, though ethiopia did join the brics recently

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/20 ... egypt-help
The recent agreement struck between Ethiopia and Somaliland continues to reverberate across the region, while Somalia, which claims Somaliland as part of its territory, reaches out to regional countries to mobilize support.

Last week, landlocked Ethiopia and the breakaway region of Somaliland reached an agreement that would give Addis Ababa access to the Red Sea through the port of Berbera in exchange for their recognizing Somaliland’s independence.

The deal was widely condemned by Somalia, which deemed it a violation of its territorial integrity. Even within Somaliland, a split within the government has come to the open about the agreement. On Sunday, Somaliland’s defense minister Abdiqani Mohamud Ateye resigned to protest the deal.

“Ethiopia remains our number one enemy,” Ateye said in an interview.

Landlocked Ethiopia, for its part, defended the agreement.

“No party or country will be affected by this memorandum of understanding. There is neither a broken trust nor any laws infringed due to the memorandum of understanding,” the Ethiopian government said in a statement last week.
In 1960, the former British protectorate of Somaliland merged with the former Italian protectorate of Somalia to form the Republic of Somalia. In 1991, Somaliland declared its independence after years of civil war and the fall of Siad Barre's regime in Somalia.

Although not recognized internationally, Somaliland has a functional government and an elected parliament.

Ethiopia pays around $1.5 billion annually to Djibouti in port fees, proving costly for the country, one of the poorest in the world, with a per capita gross national income of $1,020, per the World Bank.
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On Tuesday, Mohamud concluded a two-day visit to Eritrea, where he met with his Eritrean counterpart, Isaias Afwerki, to discuss regional developments.

Speaking to Eritrean state TV after his meeting with Afwerki, Mohamud said that “Eritrea has been in support of preserving the sovereignty, unity and territorial integrity of Somalia.”

One day before embarking on his Eritrean visit, Mohamud hosted an Egyptian delegation dispatched by President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi in the capital of Mogadishu.

During the meeting on Sunday, the delegation reiterated Cairo’s unwavering support for Somalia's sovereignty, unity and territorial integrity, a statement issued by the Somali presidency said.

The delegation also conveyed an official invitation to Mohamud to visit Egypt.

Egyptian-Somali relations have steadily grown since Mohamud’s election in June 2022. Cairo sought Mogadishu’s support in its dispute with Addis Ababa over the latter’s Grand Ethiopian Dam.

At the same time, Egypt has maintained balanced ties with Somaliland, and officials from both parties have exchanged visits in the past years.
.... egypt also joined the brics recently
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

https://globelynews.com/africa/sahel-gr ... e_vignette
Military takeovers have been a major source of concern in the region and beyond in the last few years. Since 2020, the region has had four successful coup d’états and three failed ones.

The coup in Niger particularly attracted attention. This is because Niger was seen as a “darling of the West” and a model for democratic governance in the region.

Despite the challenges facing the region, the scramble for the Sahel remains intense.

The main actors in this scramble are the European Union, France, Russia, China, and the United States.

The EU relies on Sahelian countries, especially Niger, to stop mass illegal immigration into the bloc. Niger is a major transit country in the region. Niger had security and defence partnerships with the EU until recently when the country unilaterally cancelled the deals. This is a source of concern to the EU.
France has the first right to buy any natural resources discovered in all its former colonies. Although the relationship between France and its former colonies appeared cordial, recent coups in Francophone countries and anti-France sentiments across Africa have revealed the opposite.

The coups have been followed by large demonstrations against France and in support of the putschists.

Despite these cracks, France is keen to maintain its grip on these countries, especially pertaining to military cooperation and resource extraction. France was reluctant to pull its military out of Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger despite the countries severing military partnerships. It continues to extract natural resources in these countries.
Russia has openly backed military regimes in Mali and Burkina Faso and warned against any military intervention in Niger when the military took power. Furthermore, the Wagner group, the controversial private military company which is controlled by Russia, cooperates with some countries in the Sahel. Niger has canceled its defense agreement with the EU and switched to Russia. All of these factors explain Russia’s interest in the Sahel.
The Sahel region is rich in natural resources such as oil, uranium, natural gas, and lithium. Chinese state-owned enterprises operate in Niger, Chad, Mali and Burkina Faso.

For instance, Mali potentially has one of the largest lithium reserves in the world and China’s Ganfeng Lithium has invested heavily in the country. In addition, despite China’s development in military hardware, most of the weapons are untested. China is keen to use the conflicts in the Sahel to test its arms products.
In 2019, the U.S. opened its largest drone base in Africa in Agadez-Niger. A year before that, I had written about the security implications of the base for the region.

Unlike France and China, which both have extensive economic interests in the Sahel, the U.S. has a strong military interest. Niger, in particular, is strategically located and the U.S. can easily fly surveillance and reconnaissance drones from the country to cover the Sahel, west and central Africa.

As France is being militarily dislodged by its former colonies in the region, the U.S. has been trying to fill the void to prevent Russia and China from establishing further military presence.

The U.S. took several months to label the military takeover in Niger a coup so as not to lose strategic military cooperation and dominance.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

not strictly india related
https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/ecowas-spl ... est-africa
The Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) is arguably the most successful model of regional governance in Africa. Headquartered in Lagos, Nigeria, the bloc was established in 1975 to deepen economic integration across West Africa. Three decades ago, about 90 percent of trade in sub-Saharan Africa was dominated by non-African economies; today, the share of regional trade has more than doubled, largely due to regional organizations including ECOWAS. By 2024, the body consisted of fifteen members representing more than 400 million people in “all fields of economic activity, particularly industry, transport, telecommunications, energy, agriculture, natural resources, commerce, monetary and financial questions, social and cultural matters,” as its mission states.
more like it was the puppet organisation of the fdf, primarily france in this case
In a joint statement on January 28, the three countries [Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger], all founding members of ECOWAS who have seen military takeovers in the past three years, announced they were leaving the bloc because it had “drifted from the ideals of its founding fathers and the spirit of pan-Africanism.” They also claimed that, having fallen “under the influence of foreign powers,” ECOWAS has “betrayed its founding principles” and “become a threat to member states and peoples.” Finally, the three countries expressed disappointment that the organization had not helped them tackle the festering Islamist insurgencies in their countries.
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The withdrawal does not bode well for the countries’ relationships with other ECOWAS states. It is the latest escalation in a growing fracture that has opened up in the wake of a series of military coups. Between 2020 and 2023, the three countries, along with Guinea, all experienced military takeovers. ECOWAS responded by suspending and then sanctioning all four countries, including a commercial no-fly zone and a freeze on all assets held in ECOWAS central banks. The United States, the European Union, and several other Western countries also suspended aid or applied sanctions. In retaliation, Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger formed a breakaway “Alliance of Sahel States” in September 2023.

The move will likely deepen antagonism between the three states and Western countries, which have seen their influence diminish as various Sahelian states have sought diplomatic alternatives. France, the region’s former colonial overlord, was pressured into removing its troops from the three countries in 2022 and 2023 and, likewise, U.S. counterterrorism activity in the region has dwindled since Niger’s July 2023 coup.
The exit from ECOWAS does not augur well for democracy in the three countries. ECOWAS leadership had hoped that the countries’ suspension and diplomatic pressure to set a timeline for elections would pave the way for a return to democracy. Instead, leaving ECOWAS frees the countries from their obligations to the body and relieves them of the demand to transition to civilian rule, though technically they are mandated to abide by the group’s provisions one year after giving notice of withdrawal.

The security implications are more difficult to gauge. All three countries have been grappling with decades-long insurgencies and UN peacekeeping missions have yet to achieve stability. Last December marked the end of MINUSMA, an unsuccessful UN peacekeeping mission in Mali that spanned ten years. It remains to be seen whether collaboration with Russia, which has already deployed an initial contingent of troops to Ouagadougou, the Burkinabe capital, will be successful where UN peacekeepers and French troops have failed.
question is whether a 10 year peacekeeping mission a success or a failure, but as africa is a forgotten continent, no one will be able to answer this
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Lisa »

Ricky_vji, thank you very much for your posts that cover the missed but important news.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Ricky ji,
The opinion on French influence and even more powerful American influence in ecowas region and latest developments will be very different if you get an African perspective.

As soon as the coup happened in Niger who was the first big foreign official to visit the new military ruler? A certain VN.

Where did the deposed leader bazoum spend many years and got arrested on drug charges and then got released in a bargain deal before going back to Niger and rise to power? Not in France, but in VN's country. Curiously where did his usurper attend military school programs for many years? Again not in France but 'outre atlantique'.

What was France paying for yellow cake from Niger before and after the coup ? 15 cents a kilo vs 300x ie market price now. After AUKUS, France is being punished again for trying to pursue or even looking like it is trying to pursue an independent foreign policy.

France thinks it still has some influence in ecowas... All it is doing now is to send an LGBTQ ambassador to these uncivilized heathens. Yes I'm not kidding. It's an official appointment of the French govt diplomatic corps.

The African continent was carved up by competing colonial empires with little regard for people or geography and this has put multidimensionally diverse peoples into same countries leading to conflict which the former colonial powers again use as excuse to meddle and exploit the indigenous people, with Massa lording above them all.

So I'd take this CFR report with a bucket of salt.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by SRajesh »

Cyranoji
Where does Peaceful/RoP sit in all this
I thought Mali Niger Burkina Faso are top heavy with peaceful
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

The dry northern areas on the edge of Sahara are composed of nomadic and semi nomadic tribes, mostly Muslim. The tropical southern parts are inhabited by more sedentary people who depend on forest produce, or slash n burn farming, and over the past few centuries they became slaves shipped away or converted to xtianity.

The "countries" were carved up as long North to south strips by colonial powers to ensure access to sea to ship away produce, slaves and minerals.

But every country has the same force fitted composition of a multitude of tribes and people with dissimilar ethnicity, religions, lifestyle and traditions. Designed for perpetual conflict and strife, and therefore designed to be easily controlled and exploited by the white masters and MNCs using money, guns, NGOs, conversion zealots.

Its easy to blame Africans for all this instability in posh foreign policy journals and champagne soaked conférences.
However IMHO the best thing that can happen to 'save' Africa is that the western powers stay the hell out in all forms. And let them redraw the borders as they see fit, even if it may happen with considerable bloodshed.

How much more insulting can it get than sending rejected refugees to Rwanda by UK for example. But hardly surprising since the often ignored historical fact is that its the British who pioneered concentration camps long before the Nazis perfected and industrialised the concept. Pity the Brits didn't patent it.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

all good Lisaji
Cyrano wrote: 04 Feb 2024 18:47 So I'd take this CFR report with a bucket of salt.
Cyranoji, let me preface by saying what I may have mentioned earlier before, all western journalists speak in the forked tongues of a bat's, that is not revelation but dogmatic axiom. All articles have some kernel of truth and varying proportions of histrionics, kite-flying and contempt, we all know this, the only thing to extract are the facts and punt the rest. In that conjunction, the only use of the article is the news and the inference:
1. 3 member nations, founding members at that, of ecowas have decided to leave the association
2. all the 3 members are muslim heavy
3. the 3 members are antagonistic towards the west and particularly france, i think we all remember how france has been militarily involved in mali for many years now
4. the 3 members are not chary of the western notion that democracy is the be all and end all of polity

inference
1.russia/china will move into this vacuum, russia via wagner, mil sales, china via infra spend and development
2.ecowas is an integrated economic forum, in a happy coincidence, the trade is in cfa franc, pegged to the euro, less participation is less heft for france and eu
3. other countries where "democracy" is the imposed god in ecowas will be tempted by such measures to seek solace elsewhere

What was France paying for yellow cake from Niger before and after the coup ? 15 cents a kilo vs 300x ie market price now. After AUKUS, France is being punished again for trying to pursue or even looking like it is trying to pursue an independent foreign policy.
independent foreign policy... an interesting phrase in this instance of what is clearly neo-colonialism of old colonies, by the by, france with their dirt cheap uranium had quite a racket going on with their exorbitant power selling price to other countries in the eu and their negligible production price purchased by corrupting national leaders, this was one of the major reasons that the coup occurred
France thinks it still has some influence in ecowas.
and it does, nobody loots a setup alone, local lads with a thirst for fine things in life are not difficult to find, especially in africa, the old guard on the anvil of losing much which always involves the armed forces will have influence
The African continent was carved up by competing colonial empires with little regard for people or geography and this has put multidimensionally diverse peoples into same countries leading to conflict which the former colonial powers again use as excuse to meddle and exploit the indigenous people, with Massa lording above them all.
The "countries" were carved up as long North to south strips by colonial powers to ensure access to sea to ship away produce, slaves and minerals.

But every country has the same force fitted composition of a multitude of tribes and people with dissimilar ethnicity, religions, lifestyle and traditions. Designed for perpetual conflict and strife, and therefore designed to be easily controlled and exploited by the white masters and MNCs using money, guns, NGOs, conversion zealots.

Its easy to blame Africans for all this instability in posh foreign policy journals and champagne soaked conférences.
However IMHO the best thing that can happen to 'save' Africa is that the western powers stay the hell out in all forms. And let them redraw the borders as they see fit, even if it may happen with considerable bloodshed.

let me be a bit harsh in this instance and say that the africans are not entirely blameless either, it is not the responsibility of former powers who cobbled up large swathes of territories only as a means for enterprises to form ethnological surveys and go door to door to take census on what the geographical division should be like, if new found countries had issues, who was stopping them to combining forces here and negotiating land there.

Countries in asia had preexisting borders based on previous empires / extent of power, so geography division was easier, the middle east was formed by breaking up the ottoman empire, going in a deal with ibn saud and gauging persia's growth as a regional irritant in the future; in contrast, what have been the empires in west africa? the only that comes to mind is of mali, and that was prosperous for trading slaves to the middle east/

So the west would have returned the countries to their previous state as they found it, with warring chieftains and tribes, no institutional development or anything to sustain it in the future; that is the job of the native africans. Now african countries are like miny nations in themselves, they are not one tribe heavy, but have to work out between them for the greater prosperity, greater movement between countries and further economic interdependence will integrate people in a civic and institutional bind tighter than ever before in western africa; i do not disparage the institutions that the west imparted to africa for the simple reason that there was nothing before, if they have an ancient philosophy of governance or some newfound one, the world waits with bated breath for their implementation

The opinion on French influence and even more powerful American influence in ecowas region and latest developments will be very different if you get an African perspective.
yet no one seems to post any such african perspectives, curious. I have glanced over general african political/ir papers, they are without fail always a mixture of colonialism, handouts for global warming, tribal warfare, corruption, strong armed forces, a paper here or there might be different, but prima facie, i would say that they still lack maturity in such institutions, if you have the strength to correct the past, then by all means, crib about it, if not, find ways for the future
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Ricky ji,

You make lot of good points, it fundamentally comes back to was colonialism good or bad? Is the west justified in in its "mission civilisatrice" role? Has it done more good or bad?

One can indeed make the argument that Africa as a whole has failed two evolve, preserve and sustain its own culture and civilisations in the post WW2 world. But does that justify their subjugation and brutal exploitation even now, saying its their fault? They don't have as many published writers and blog posters so they deserve what they are getting ?! (actually you can find some decent content in French on YT and elsewhere on SM, though its a recent phenomenon set to grow)

Can the same argument be made for India which was colonised first by islamic invaders for centuries and then by europeans? If you take out Sardar Patel and try to imagine what would have been India's trajectory after 1947, it would be a scary picture.

Coming back to ecowas and all that, France has very little influence left to swing anything in it's favour. Macron's lecturing and insulting remarks on public fora have pissed of most African rulers and peoples (especially the young) alike. France is now facing a serious energy double whammy now. Whatever it enjoyed as energy security by buying cheap uranium ore is history now, and the EU regulations that have pegged energy prices not to nuclear but to gas (cheap Russian supplies gone, NS2 destroyed so gas has become and will remain costlier), and EU rules have created scam front end companies that make money buying subsidised power from EDF and sell it for a profit, with no need to invest in any generation and distribution. French people will pay 10% higher electricity bills starting this month, and its just the beginning.

IMO US will remain more influential in African affairs than France. Yes, Russia and china will move in, Russia an irritate the NATO countries by putting some militias here and there but they simply cant put in mil bases all over like the US does. China doesnt care, it will bribe and entrap all sides to steal what it wants.

IMO, its a period of opportunity for many African countries to find their own footing and strengthen the pursuit of their own national interests, as democracies or otherwise. Bharat has a role to play in all this, and as Bharat rises in this multi polar world, those African countries that take Bharat's help and learn from it have a real chance to betterment in the next couple of decades.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

Cyrano wrote: 06 Feb 2024 15:44
One can indeed make the argument that Africa as a whole has failed two evolve, preserve and sustain its own culture and civilisations in the post WW2 world. But does that justify their subjugation and brutal exploitation even now, saying its their fault?

They don't have as many published writers and blog posters so they deserve what they are getting ?! (actually you can find some decent content in French on YT and elsewhere on SM, though its a recent phenomenon set to grow)
Cyrano ji, let me go in a round about way for this one, how do nations see themselves as: for eg india is bharat, pakistan's identity is that it is not-india, so in order to define the entity pakistan, you have to first define the entity india; in that sense, what is the definition of most of the african countries? they are an amalgamation of tribes, historically not much friendly, and so for further definition of what this or that african country is elicits a response that they are in a sense multicultural "nations" formed artificially and now forced to coexist for a shared prosperous future.

My point was that the african commentators cannot see their way past this definition itself and they thus periodically revert to an ever basic question, what is a nation, if not the most efficient setup to serve the interests of the people inhabiting it, in all spheres? their answer to this question usually takes the form of whatever ideology is convenient at that point to the elite, but these ideologies are either anti-something (necessitating the definition of something first) or others which are verboten methods brought in from the rest of the world; its not unlike the jackals of the indian commies who would have without hesitation brought in a foreign ideology that does not work on indian soil.

In this manner, looking for a perpetual framework to define first and run second, a country, are the africans so conned, justification's got nothing to do with it

which is also the point made out of the immaturity of institutions and intellectual organisations

IMO, its a period of opportunity for many African countries to find their own footing and strengthen the pursuit of their own national interests, as democracies or otherwise.
many african countries have started adopting their civic pride as something more than tribal and or religious affiliation, and therein lies victory for these nations, imo, most have started steeling their handed-down framework however it may have been passed onto them, now its onto the definition of a nation for them and this is where they currently lag philosophically
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Aldonkar »

Since Ricky_v and Cyrano have both posted their views on the development of African states, here is my view formed partly by my first seventeen years of life in Kenya and later by interactions with Africans in the UK (mostly west Africans).

There are two factors that many africans hold to; one is tribe. In Kenya, one's tribe was paramount. The tribe also had a racial tie. Some tribes were Bantu (eg. Kikuyu, Kamba, Nandi and Meru) others were Nilotic (Luo and Abaluya, Obama's father was Luo) and a small number were Cushitic (eg. Somali, Masai, Boran). There were a small number of people who did not fall into these groups. Sixty years after independence, only in a the larger urban areas are the barriers between tribes beginning to break down. Religion has always been a minor factor, with the various bands of Christianity being superimposed on various tribes . Recently there has been a movement towards an African interpretation of Christianity with various breakaway churches starting up lead by get-rich-quick pastors. Politics was always dominated by the larger tribes; Kikuyu in the heartland which included Nairobi and Luo in the west around L. Victoria and near the Uganda border.

The West Africans also had a tribal division over which there was a important religious divide. In Nigeria for example, the Northern tribes (eg Fulani) were almost all Muslim and the Southern were mostly Christian (of various kinds). Many will remember the example of Biafra, where the South-eastern Christians Led by the mostly Christian Ibo broke away to form a republic which was crushed by the Muslim dominated army and the western part of the country. The Ibo were fed up with the oil revenue (oil was mostly in their territory) being spent on everything but their land and interests.

The Sahel states mentioned are mainly almost completely Muslim. I would not like to speculate on their tribal divisions but the French seemed to have exploited their dependence (post independence) to extract favourable treatment. The Africans are now biting back.

The African experience has been one of exploitation of colonisers and economic interests be they western or Eastern
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by SRajesh »

RikyVji/Cyranoji/Alondkarji
totally agree that Tribe is paramount in African culture.
The movement of tribe especially the Bantu expansion from central to South Africa and their historical interaction with two other main groups the Nilotic and Kushitic groups has the major implications to the present day tribal customs and allegiance.
The minor tribes like the Central african forest dwellers or the San have been completly marginalised.
And I feel religion has a great sway. The Nilotic has a long standing exposure to Islam but have strong Christian faith.
I presume the Kushitic are Islam dominated like the North African states.
So a long ingrained Tribal customs/tribal lore and the Religion is a heady mixture for any artifically drawn state by the Colonial Masters.
And probaly therein lies the weakness still explioted by their old colonial masters.
Add to this Despots who get easy haven either in an islamic Country or Woke infested EU!!
And Unkil and EU keep training Cadets who evernight become General/Feild Marshals and control the state and are beholden to their former teachers.
And on a small note to end we should get the great Kanhaiya Kumar who purportedly spent long time amongst these folks to help us understand the issues better!! :rotfl:
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Nice discussion, thanks Aldonkar ji and Rajesh ji for adding your views.

A few musings : If for a moment, we could imagine an Africa before colonisation, it was a very difficult place for people to settle down and thrive as it is now. A lot of it due to geography and climate. Thomas Sowell has a wonderful short video on this, I posted it before on BRF, avl on YT of course.

For civilisations to evolve and prosper, it needs a combination of people (who would have been hitherto living in tribes and in survival mode) who can live stable and sedentary lives, have access to rivers (most great cities in the world were built on navigable, perennial rivers and seashores), fertile lands, in a certain critical mass of population, the mass itself determined by geography and climate. This is the minimum needed for several generations for slow but continuous improvement of farming, mining, rearing etc to create a high degree of survivability, making sedentarism worthwhile, and leads to knowledge accumulation and transmission through codification in terms of language, traditions, culture including music, arts, folklore, philosophy etc. This critical mass is also important to endure climate changes, which may lead to drought, famines or floods, pests and epidemics; and its also needed to defend sedentary people from exogenous nomadic tribes who are in search of the same resources and stability. when there is some mass butt not enough to become "critical" then we will have tribal societies that survive and thrive but remain short of achieving full potential, like half blossomed flowers that wont bear fruit.

Bharat has indeed been a blessed land "sujalam, suphalam..." and for several centuries, perhaps millennia at a stretch to evolve, thrive and endure its civilisation to this day. Its great cities are millennia old and continuously habited.

While there have been significantly important settlements and kingdoms in Africa that prospered, traded with each other and some across seas and oceans with India for example,
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... ial_Africa ) they were geographically distributed, disjointed, and I would speculate had indeed attained critical masses that were sustainable for centuries, but still inadequate to take on sustained assault by tech enabled colonial powers. I also agree that the non evolution of sophisticated indigenous religions and philosophical systems has made them vulnerable to external assaults, because a common religion is a powerful unificator. Perhaps the story of American native tribes is similar in this respect. Also, the disjointed civilisations and kingdoms mean that other species - wildlife - have been prospering next to humans and have their own critical mass that inturn influences human behaviour, and encourages them to coexist, adapt and absorb them into one's own thinking, behaviour and philosophy/religion.

The most destructive religions have evolved when man who can think and make tools was confined to zones of relative penury few steps away from destitution. Makes a lot of violence justified, sees world in man vs wild binary, and hardwires anthropocentric non-cyclical worldview in the form of its dominant religion. Its no less violent with other religions and cultures, the same binary view is repeated as us vs them or believers vs heathen/infidels.

But since the dawn of the 20th century or so, the tech asymmetry has been continuously levelled even if it was introduced into Africa as a means to exploit. However, if the underlying factors remain the same, then even a tech enabled Africa will struggle to achieve social cohesion and political stability which are pre-requisites to prosperity. Which is what we are seeing now.

IMO, what Africa needs is a catalyst/enabler in the form of a friend, philosopher and guide, and there is no better bet than Bharat. And India is doing exactly that, which fills me with pride and hope.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/16/afri ... index.html
Niger’s military government announced that it has ended an accord with the US that allowed military personnel and civilian staff from the Department of Defense to operate in Niger – days after holding high-level talks with US diplomatic and military officials this week.

“The government of Niger, taking into account the aspirations and interests of its people, decides with full responsibility to denounce with immediate effect the agreement relating to the status of military personnel of the United States and civilian employees of the American Department of Defense in the territory of the Republic of Niger,” Niger military spokesman Colonel Major Amadou Abdramane said in a statement on national television announcing the change.

Abdramane added that the agreement between the two countries – signed in 2012, was imposed on Niger and had been in violation of the “constitutional and democratic rules” of the West African nation’s sovereignty.
Niger was once a key regional partner for the US, but relations have deteriorated since the military junta claimed power in July 2023 in what the US formally designated as a coup.

Since then, the US has withdrawn many of its 1,100 troops who were stationed in Niger.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newslett ... -in-africa
The Gulf state is splashing out on a blockbuster $35 billion deal to help bail out Egypt, pledging billions of dollars more in investment in other countries and picking sides in some of the continent’s most brutal wars.

With Chinese infrastructure funding tapering off and Western engagement wavering, Abu Dhabi’s cash flows have been coupled with a concerted diplomatic push: an approach mirrored to a lesser extent by its neighbors Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

These ambitions have taken the UAE beyond the Gulf states’ historic North-African sphere of influence and from the nearby Horn of Africa into every corner of the continent.

Its investment pledges — totaling $44.5 billion last year, the top country for the second year running — focus on renewable power, logistics and technology, in better-developed economies such as Egypt, Morocco, South Africa and Kenya where strong infrastructure and economic expansion are stoking demand for energy. But its role in the continent’s wars are more parochial — largely focused on the regions closest to the Middle East.
The wealthy Gulf state backs Khalifa Haftar in the war for Libya, Ethiopian President Abiy Ahmed in his fight against Tigray rebels and reportedly the Rapid Support Forces militia in Sudan, where its battle against the army has created the world’s biggest population displacement crisis and drawn accusations of war crimes. The UAE denies supporting the RSF, while United Nations investigators have called allegations that it does “credible.”



From massive government bailouts and backing warlords to operating nine of the continent’s major ports via Dubai-based DP World and committing $4.5 billion in climate financing, the UAE is exerting influence at scale.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by VinodTK »



Thoise: India’s Northernmost Air Base Against The #China #pakistan Pakistan Two Front Threat
Indian Air Force Station Thoise and its gravity for India's deterrence against the Pakistan-China two-front threat is the focus of 'The Himalayan Frontier', Part X, our series of on-the-ground documentaries from Eastern Ladakh and Siachen. "Thoise lies in Shyok valley. It is a base at such a location that assets deployed can be useful for both fronts," Air Commodore D.S. Handa, Air Officer Commanding, Indian Air Force (IAF) Station, Leh told us. In this episode, we film the Indian Air Force's assets including the C-130, Il-76, Mi-17, ALH Rudra, Apache and, the Embraer at the strategically located base in Ladakh. The two IAF stations in Ladakh-Leh and Thoise are critical for the Indian Army's deployment at the Siachen Glacier. Critical IAF Bases in LadakhThe Thoise Air Force Station is an essential part of the military's deterrent all along the AGPL- the Actual Ground Position Line and the LOC- the Line of Control with Pakistan as well as along the LAC- the Line of Actual Control with China. Continuing our series on India's Pakistan-China two-front threat, 'The Himalayan Frontier', our team of Amitabh P. Revi, Rohit Pandita, and Karan Marwaha also visits the 'Siachen Healers' of the Army Medical Corps', who save lives and limbs in the sector.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by drnayar »

https://www.rfi.fr/en/podcasts/internat ... t-ethiopia



Not only is this the location of Turkey's largest international military base, it's also the location of Turkey's largest embassy in the world," explains Norman Ricklefs, chair of multinational consultancy group Namea.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Niger booting out Unkil is yet another achievement of Toria!

We have got Africa a seat at the table as G21. SA, Egypt and Ethiopia are in Brics. This is as best a shot as they can get right now on the world stage. What they do with it in the rest of this decade will determine their future for the next quarter century IMO.
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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by srin »

This was an eye-opener for me. Didn't know about Indians being driven out of Uganda and Kenya.



And why the Indian Govt at that time did nothing.

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Re: India-Africa News and Discussion

Post by Lisa »

The second video is far from the truth that I personally experienced. It is biased and lies at LEAST.
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