Blasts in Ahmedabad

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kshirin
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by kshirin »

[quote="ashish raval"]Did anyone ever heard that terrorists attacked Hospitals before ? The only one i can recall is from hezbollah in Israel...even most ruthless al-keeda do not attack hospitals or even in the war they dont attack hospitals and ambulances, man these guys are horrible. Can you guys ever imagine what kind of ferocity and ruthlessness these terrorists might have. They are not humans and hence when they are caught they should be immediately thrown into the case filled with hungry wild boars and pigs who will even eat their bones. :evil:[/quote][/b]

The attack on hospitals proves these are not humans. Steve Colls' Ghost wars describes the decades long savagery and mayhem the Al Qaeda/Taliban/ISI combine have wrought in Afghanistan and elsewhere and one knows from others also they are not human. And like the CIA we are also twiddling our intelligence thumbs. Apparently all the evidence they needed to prevent 9/11 was out there. I am sure the evidence is floating around but we just havent caught it. What I am afraid of is a WMD attack, these guys hate us enough.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Muppalla »

For whatever it is worth:

Bitterness threatens Indian tolerance

"An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind", Gandhi once remarked. In India the cycle of violence and reprisal between religious extremists has entered a deadlier phase. Saturday's bomb blasts, which killed 45, appear to be the work of a home-grown Islamist outfit: Indian Mujahideen.

While in India the finger of suspicion might still point at Pakistan for incubating such groups, there is a problem in India. There's no doubt Indian Muslims have been losing ground – falling behind even Dalits, the so-called untouchables in Hindu society, in educational achievement in recent years. Many Muslims barely escape the poorly-paid artisan professions of their ancestors, even in booming modern Indian cities. {might have read BR thread yesterday}

Poverty and backwardness are not enough for people to turn to terror. There is, however, an increasing acceptance of the legitimacy of a series of grievances amongst Muslims in India. Indian Mujahideen's email to TV stations five minutes before the blasts made it clear that it was tapping into these historical humiliations – nursing bloody wounds and encouraging revenge.

These include the demolition of the Babri Masjid mosque in December 1992, by a baying mob of Hindu fanatics; the failure to prosecute police officers found guilty of excesses in the Mumbai riots that followed; the harsh jail sentences handed out to Muslims who were guilty of retaliating by bombing Mumbai in March 1993.

Perhaps the most difficult for the Indian state to repudiate is the worst outbreak of religious violence in recent decades in Gujarat in 2002. More than 2,000 Muslims were killed in cold blood – a four day orgy of gang rape, murder and looting. The violence was sparked when a train carrying Hindu pilgrims was burnt on the tracks – at least 58 were killed.

What Gujarat represented was a new menace - the mob in partnership with the state. The police were held back. Hindu rioters appeared to have computer printouts listing Muslim households. {No end to new and funny discoveries} In the aftermath Muslims found that the courts could not always protect them against the popular frenzy.

In the four and a half years I have been based in India, I haven't met a single Muslim who doesn't deeply resent the Indian state for its failure to act in Gujarat. I have also met some who said they would retaliate in kind. This is the hate that hate made.

Gujarat's chief minister, Narendra Modi, has been accused at best of sitting on his hands while innocents were murdered and at worst of being behind the violence. A Hindu nationalist, Modi has been re-elected three times since the mayhem.

In the past he has baited Muslims – and appears to see religious difference as a deep threat to order. Modi, who has cultivated a new image as an economic reformer, figures prominently in the email sent by the terror group Indian Mujahideen.

The spectre of religious violence has made India a more dangerous place. The New York Times quoted a study by Washington's Counterterrorism Centre from January 2004 to March 2007, which showed the death toll from terrorist attacks in India was 3,674, second only to that in Iraq during the same period.

None of these deaths can be justified. Indian Mujahideen are immersed in the kind of Islamist ramblings, plus the usual call for the release of terror suspects, that make them nothing less than a vehicle for violence. But they are building a narrative of despair that can seduce the angry and the dispossessed.

India remains a remarkable democratic adventure, daily reconciling demands from the perhaps the most diverse population in the world. Its free press continues to expose corruption and efforts to roll back the country's constitutional safeguards. It is still a country ruled by laws. Its elections largely produce stable, well-intentioned governments faced with awesome development challenges.

Islamic fundamentalism too holds little sway over the vast majority of its 150m Muslims who provide India with some of its most recognisable businesspeople, film stars and politicians. This huge population also means only a tiny fraction need to turn to terror for a problem to become unmanageable.

Most societies struggle as they try to convince people to replace loyalties to religious ideas with loyalty to the state. The problem is that in India this competition can end up destroying internal peace. The Islamists and Hindu extremists see the world in similar terms: legitimising violence in a bid to control. Unless these forces are kept in check, whether India can remain one of the world's most tolerant societies is an open question.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Prem »

ravi_ku wrote:Shiv,
your door theory was interesting. But I think you missed an important input in the whole theory.

Muslims lost their majority of forward class and leadership with partition. Few leaders that remained (like Azad) did not had the stature to pull all of them along. So with or without the partition, majority of those today would not have taken the S door either.
Correct , Islam can thrive in segregated enviornment only and proof is in current social enviornment of islamic countries. Minority elimination is crucial to shut any window to outside influence . Indian problem is unique as iindia is the only country where huge numbers of Muslims live with takleef in huge kaffir majority land . The outcome of the issue depends upon either India change or it changes Islam as we know of. Either way the result wont be pretty. We are in big fix.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by RamaY »

Muppalla wrote:For whatever it is worth:

Bitterness threatens Indian tolerance

These include the demolition of the Babri Masjid mosque in December 1992, by a baying mob of Hindu fanatics; the failure to prosecute police officers found guilty of excesses in the Mumbai riots that followed; the harsh jail sentences handed out to Muslims who were guilty of retaliating by bombing Mumbai in March 1993.
I humbly request any seeker of truth about this topic to visit one of the many temples desecrated by the Islamic invaders. I will give couple of examples. Kutub Minar in Delhi and Gaynvapi Mosque in Varanasi. You can clearly see two things. The destruction of these temples were made to show it as a warning to the future generation of Hindus.

The immediate response to this issue would be multi-folded.
1. We have so many other issues, do we need to make this as a big issue? – Very true. We can definitely address the issues of poverty, illiteracy, infrastructure, caste system first. If this logic is accepted, would it be alright if these temples are reconstructed after addressing all these issues?

2. We have so many other temples, do we need another temple? - Definitely not. But there are many mosque’s as well. Would it hurt the IMs to offer these three temples (Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura) to their hindu brethren as a secular gift? Can anyone even suggest such idea?

3. This was done so many many years back. Why should we punish current generation IMs? – Very valid. This assumes the validity of concept of time flowing in only one direction. In that case, Babri masjid was demolished in 1993. Why can’t IMs and secularists apply the same logic to this incident?

4. Islamic invaders destroyed the temples in the process of looting them? – Possible. But why so many temples were converted as mosques? How can Gyanvapi mosque be used to conduct Islamic prayer when couple of the original hindu temple walls are left untouched? How come sculptures of hindu temples were taken to build a mosque in Delhi in qutb minar?

The reason behind asking for return of these temples and logic behind the hesitation to return them is:

a. Temples, Churches, Mosques are artifacts of the particular faith. By destroying them the invading culture tries to remove the memories of the old culture. (read modern Organizational Theory).

b. Destroying the existing cultures rules and hierarchy is mandatory for the new culture to be implemented successfully. That is the reason behind demonization of Sanatana Dharma and Caste system.

c. Reconstruction of the temples demonstrates the resurgence of the native culture. If the native culture comes back, it will prove its eternity and irrelevance of the new cultures. Because the original culture is engrained in local population’s DNA.

Awaken my friends. Let us respect the other faiths. Let them flourish in their own native lands. At the same time let us honor our native culture, the Sanatana Dharma.

ensoi...
Last edited by RamaY on 29 Jul 2008 06:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by SSridhar »

The pan-India plot
The busting of a plot to blow up the busy Gemini flyover near the US consulate in Chennai, thanks to the chance apprehension of one of the suspects, Ghafoor, and the truck load of explosives meant for Kerala are clear pointers to a pan-Indian plot. It also marks the determination to hit targets further south of Bangalore.
More attacks planned in TN
Meanwhile, police sources said terrorists planned to attack cities in Tamil Nadu and the Madurai Meenakshi Amman temple was believed to be on the top of their list.

Police also suspected that two of the terrorists who escaped from Manali near Chennai, Daubid and Abudhagir, could target places of worship.

The sources said the Lashkar-e- Tayaba had also planned to attack places of worship in the state.
Last edited by SSridhar on 29 Jul 2008 06:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by SSridhar »

Muppalla wrote:For whatever it is worth:

Bitterness threatens Indian tolerance
That piece is worth a lot. What is proclaims, loud and clear, is that in India the Islamic terrorist attacks are justified as it is in retaliation to the ill-treatment of the Muslims in the hands of the Hindus. What it doesn't say is that in the so-called West, the Muslims are unjustified in attacking them and hence deserve to be retaliated against.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Y. Kanan »

How many bombings have to happen in a place like Bangalore before we start paying a major economic price? While the bombings in Ahmedebad are serious enough, this new trend of targeting the prosperous south is more worrisome. I know human life is cheap and expendable to us Indians, but what about GDP?
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by CRamS »

SSridhar wrote:
Muppalla wrote:For whatever it is worth:

Bitterness threatens Indian tolerance
That piece is worth a lot. What is proclaims, loud and clear, is that in India the Islamic terrorist attacks are justified as it is in retaliation to the ill-treatment of the Muslims in the hands of the Hindus. What it doesn't say is that in the so-called West, the Muslims are unjustified in attacking them and hence deserve to be retaliated against.
Unbelievable. These brown Sahibs can be so shameless.

But on another note, I wonder if any of India's 'secualrists' starting with MMS will still go around parroting the "no Indian is part of Al Quaida" nonsense?
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by sunilUpa »

A question, how many BRF members have actually lived/worked in Gujarat atleast for a short while to understand them. How many were in Ahmedabad in 2002 or in 90's.
Gujarati Muslims are prosperous, they are very much part of vibrant economy of Gujarat, many vital cogs of economy such as Packaging and transportation are dependent on them.

For that matter Gujaratis are a class apart from rest of the Indians. :wink:
Last edited by sunilUpa on 29 Jul 2008 07:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by shiv »

Y. Kanan wrote:How many bombings have to happen in a place like Bangalore before we start paying a major economic price? While the bombings in Ahmedebad are serious enough, this new trend of targeting the prosperous south is more worrisome. I know human life is cheap and expendable to us Indians, but what about GDP?
How does terrorism suddenly affect the economy just because Bangalore is hit? Haven't we heard all this before when Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad and Hyderabad were hit? What happened to the economy then?

Nothing will happen. We need to stop worrying about the economy and start taking out terrorists.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by shiv »

SSridhar wrote:The pan-India plot
The busting of a plot to blow up the busy Gemini flyover near the US consulate in Chennai, thanks to the chance apprehension of one of the suspects, Ghafoor, and the truck load of explosives meant for Kerala are clear pointers to a pan-Indian plot. It also marks the determination to hit targets further south of Bangalore.
More attacks planned in TN
Meanwhile, police sources said terrorists planned to attack cities in Tamil Nadu and the Madurai Meenakshi Amman temple was believed to be on the top of their list.

Police also suspected that two of the terrorists who escaped from Manali near Chennai, Daubid and Abudhagir, could target places of worship.
May I ask a question even as I apologise for large fonts and colors?

Since the people named above have not yet committed any terrorist acts, do they have a religion or not?

Or is a "particular community" being victimized :roll:

By what mechanism does a man lose his religion when he commits a terrorist act?
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by SSridhar »

shiv wrote: By what mechanism does a man lose his religion when he commits a terrorist act?
Simple Shiv. If he is a Muslim, he will no longer be considered a Muslim by the 'moderate Muslims' as well as the State after he commits terror. Any reference to his religion will be tantamount to Islam bashing. (Of course, the terror organizations will offer a fateha if he happens to be a suicide bomber and praise his glorious effort.) This mechanism does not apply to other religions in India. In a Christianized Western country, the Islamic terrorists will be identified as such and treated accordingly, which is all par.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Muppalla »

I do not think Muslims are backward and uneducated etc. To me it simply makes no sense.

They have all classes of people. Even %age wise also the gap is not significant except when the social engineers put a magnifying glass. In a economically progressing state like Gujarat, they also share the riches. In 100% literate state of Kerala they are part of it. In a backward state like UP they share the poverty as well.

Theories based on Muslim poverty is just giving more ammunition and justification to terrorism.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Sadler »

sunilUpa wrote: Gujarati Muslims are prosperous, they are very much part of vibrant economy of Gujarat, many vital cogs of economy such as Packaging and transportation are dependent on them...............
I am not being sarcastic here. Just an honest query. Weren't the moslems who burned the hindu pilgrims on a train in the State of Gujarat local moslems?? And as such, part of this "vibrant" economy? Did not these same moslems then prevent rescuers and EMS services from reaching the scene as well?
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Sadler »

Nayak wrote:Ahmedabad blasts: Police make first arrest
28 Jul 2008, 0830 hrs IST,Times Now

NEW DELHI: An activist of the banned militant outfit, Ahle Hadees, has been arrested in connection with the serial blasts in Ahmedabad which was on the edge on Sunday with a live bomb in the city being defused and another three found in Surat city as the death toll rose to 49.
Hello Nayak, do you mind posting the link for this article? I'd like to cite it on IF in the "indian jihad" thread there. TIA.

Shimon
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by sunilUpa »

Sadler wrote:
sunilUpa wrote: Gujarati Muslims are prosperous, they are very much part of vibrant economy of Gujarat, many vital cogs of economy such as Packaging and transportation are dependent on them...............
I am not being sarcastic here. Just an honest query. Weren't the moslems who burned the hindu pilgrims on a train in the State of Gujarat local moslems?? And as such, part of this "vibrant" economy? Did not these same moslems then prevent rescuers and EMS services from reaching the scene as well?
Yes, but what that has got to do with their prosperity? Nothing..
After 2002, the Gujarat industrial sector was hard hit due to lack of packaging material and transportation.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by enqyoob »

Pak troops attack Indian border post, jawan killed

Mukhtar Ahmad in Srinagar | July 28, 2008 | 20:48 IST

In yet another breach of the bilateral ceasefire, a posse of Pakistan army soldiers intruded into the Indian side of the Line of Control in the Lipa sector in north Kashmir Kupwara district, and resorted to heavy firing at an army patrol, killing one soldier on the spot.

Giving details of the incident, a defence spokesperson in Srinagar said, "At around 1500 hours a group of 10-12 Pakistan army soldiers crossed the LoC in the general area of Lipa sector and fired on our patrol."

"Due to the heavy firing one army soldier was killed. Our troops also retaliated and the Pakistan troops ran back," Captain Neha Goyal told rediff.com.

"We are not aware of any casualties on their side. It is night time and we will come to know of it on Tuesday morning."

"Heavy firing exchange is continuing in the area," Captain Neha said.

This is the first major incident on the LoC, after the two countries announced a bilateral ceasefire all along the LoC and international border which was holding effectively.
Question: WHY?

Interesting developments developing? Usually these sorts of things denote or presage the wipeout of Paki defences as prelude to jhapads. When is the NSG meeting?
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by archan »

Could the terrorists have panicked?
Let us see what the WagonR tells the investigators.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by shiv »

Sanjay M wrote: We cannot be held hostage to their delusions or to their temperament..
Famous last words.

"We cannot be held hostage" are empty words when we are already being held hostage with connivance from the highest leaders in the land in a series of meek cave-ins that have been going on for decades.

But I suppose I could take comfort by making the equally empty statement: "We cannot allow our leaders to do this. Our voters simply must not vote these people into power. The situation is simple intolerable"
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Karan Dixit »

Pakistan is like a tap from which terrorism flows out. This tap was turned off for a while. Now this is turned on again. I am trying to think who gains from murder of innocent Indian civilians besides Pakis. I can only think of two countries that have control over this tap of terror called Pakland. These two countries are China and USA.

Are Chinese trying to scare Indians or are Americans trying to scare Indians? We do not know the answer for sure. But one thing we do know for sure is that Pakistan has established terror networks in India and it is Pakistan behind these terror attacks.

If push comes to shove, will we attack Pakistan? With each praising remarks from Americans, Pakis are getting bolder and bolder. I usually do not see American hand in everything but for some reason, I see a connection between these terror attacks and Bush praising Paki PM.

Will India be able to counter attack America's most valuable ally Pakistan in self defense without jeopardizing nuclear deal? Something is not right. I just cannot put my finger on it yet.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Rahul M »

as a community, the biggest problem with IM society is the absence of middle class. unlike the comparatively progressive communities, muslim middle class in India is miniscule.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Karan Dixit »

I guess poor Hindus living on the streets of Kolkata have to do some terror work before their poverty will be acknowledged.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by shiv »

archan wrote:Could the terrorists have panicked?
Let us see what the WagonR tells the investigators.
the current groups of terrorists are a zero vice lot -- they don't frequent bars or patronise prostitutes -- unlike the gangsters behind the 1993 blasts in Mumbai. Today's terrorists are devout, single-minded men who rarely stray from their immediate orbit. This makes it extremely difficult for the law enforcement agencies to penetrate the terror networks or secure sources within the enemy's ranks.
Touche

Where do you look for devout people who do not visit bars? Where do they get their ideology and inspiration?
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Rahul M »

Karan Dixit wrote:I guess poor Hindus living on the streets of Kolkata have to do some terror work before their poverty will be acknowledged.
pardon my thick skull, how is this relevant to the topic ?
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Raju »

In reality these chain of blasts have very little to do with muslim poverty. Even if there is a small community of poor muslims that remains after a decade of muslim empowerment, it can be claimed that elements among them have been subverted and brainwashed into taking up terrorism. And this provides the justification of future terror strikes.

It's a grave mistake to link poverty to terror because then we are doing the terrorists job for them.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Prem »

Karan Dixit wrote:I guess poor Hindus living on the streets of Kolkata have to do some terror work before their poverty will be acknowledged.
Take alook at the educated Muslims at the forefront of Jihad againts kuffar word. We keep making the mistake in assuming that normal economic /social rules apply where islam rules the roots.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by amdavadi »

sunilUpa wrote:A question, how many BRF members have actually lived/worked in Gujarat atleast for a short while to understand them. How many were in Ahmedabad in 2002 or in 90's.
Gujarati Muslims are prosperous, they are very much part of vibrant economy of Gujarat, many vital cogs of economy such as Packaging and transportation are dependent on them.

For that matter Gujaratis are a class apart from rest of the Indians. :wink:

Sunil count me in, i was in A'bad in 90's & during 2002.....there is gujarati muslim vohra community who is economicly prosperious...we have own land in raipur & amraivadi area( old city), now muslim comming from other parts of gujarat & some UP muslim are buying peice of land to built houses...
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Karan Dixit »

Rahul M wrote:
Karan Dixit wrote:I guess poor Hindus living on the streets of Kolkata have to do some terror work before their poverty will be acknowledged.
pardon my thick skull, how is this relevant to the topic ?
When someone takes a walk through the streets of Kolkata, he sees some depressing poverty among Hindus and yet these Hindus do not go on to becoming Jihadis or Naxal killers. What I find interesting is that apologists for both Naxals and Islamists use the exact same excuse, poverty.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by SSridhar »

In different places (even within the same country), different reason play-out why people become terrorists. Some rich guys from Saudi Arabia, Egypt & Dubai were involved in 9/11. Many very poor guys from Pakistan have been foot-soldiers of the Taliban and Punjabi Taliban. The non-madrassah education system in Pakistan has contributed equal number of foot soldiers to jihad as the madrassahs thesmselves. Ethan-Allen CEO's son and Omar Sayeed Sheikh were not exactly poor nor were they unexposed to liberal societies. For the most part of their lives, John Walker Lindh and the Shoe Bomber were non-Muslims and yet they quickly became rabid Jihadis. Class differences have not inhibited growth of extreme fundamentalism or jihad. OBL himself is an example. The same reasons will apply to India.

And yet, there is one common thread among all the previous sets of people. That is the role that religion played in all their minds. Why haven't poverty and lack of education played a similar role in other religions ? Unless the religion of Islam is itself reformed, the marauders will keep pouring forth.

Added later: We have discussed all this several times before. Yet, a new incident brings forth all these out. Also, lack of an Islamism thread forces posters to insert these thoughts in other threads. As Islam is a complete way of life, for an individual as well as a community of Believers, discussion of Islam cannot be separated when discussing acts of violence perpetrated by them.
Last edited by SSridhar on 29 Jul 2008 09:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by bhavin »

sunilUpa wrote:A question, how many BRF members have actually lived/worked in Gujarat atleast for a short while to understand them. How many were in Ahmedabad in 2002 or in 90's.
Gujarati Muslims are prosperous, they are very much part of vibrant economy of Gujarat, many vital cogs of economy such as Packaging and transportation are dependent on them.

For that matter Gujaratis are a class apart from rest of the Indians. :wink:

Sunil, I am not sure what you are looking for here.. but as a Gujju, I have lived my whole life (well atleast till my undergrad) in Gujarat. I lived in A'bad and was there during 2002. If you clarify what kind of info are you looking for, I will be more than happy to oblige.
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by sum »

From a rediff interview of Narendra Modi:
Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi's [Images] government is completely shaken up by the serial blasts in Ahmedabad [Images] but, not surprisingly, in 24 hours it has regained its balance and ready to attack political opponents.

In the first Cabinet meeting after the bomb blasts, Modi showed the resolve to take on his political opponents. His government is likely to respond to the situation differently than state governments elsewhere.

Since the issue of security was Modi's main political plank in the last two elections, his government is likely to go on overdrive and do damage control. Modi's confidant and state Home Minister, Amit Shah, spoke exclusively to Managing Editor Sheela Bhatt and claimed that his government will not spare any effort to solve the case.

How do you explain the serial bomb blasts in Ahmedabad?

Between 2005 and 2008 this is the 12th such terror act in India. These blasts are of a similar pattern. Obviously, when dozen blasts go off in different parts of India of a similar pattern, there is reason to believe that one terrorist organisation is operating behind them.

The making of bombs, the modus operandi and the selection of locations to attack is similar. Since the Jaipur [Images] blasts, the Gujarat police was alert and working on it. Terrorists have proved to be a little clever. We cannot escape that fact. We have prevented them from doing such acts of terror in the last six years. This time they have been successful. The last 11 acts of terrorism within India have remained undetected, but I surely believe that the serial blasts in Ahmedabad will not remain undetected. That is our first resolve. Second, we must have the legal provision to limit the debate on terrorism by non-government organisations.

What are you referring to?

I am talking about police action and the methodology of police. The police's zero tolerance policy against terrorism should not be viewed from the premise of human rights. The police's zero tolerance against terrorism itself is a human right. Ultimately, the police is acting to protect innocent people's human rights. The nation will have to think about the human rights issue differently. Otherwise, to gain popularity -- in the absence of understanding and sometimes deliberately -- NGOs are helping the motives of terrorists.

This has to be distinguished by the media, intellectuals and experts of law. This fight has to be fought. As far as Gujarat is concerned, we are going to inspect our setup once again -- we will review it professionally and revamp it. The serial blasts will not remain undetected. We will reach the roots of it and give our findings to central agencies so that such blasts do not take place anywhere in the country again.

There is a perception that such blasts were expected in Gujarat after the 2002 riots. Also, add to that the dimension of most riots victims still not having got legal justice. Do you agree?

I don't believe that intense passion could be kept burning from 2002 to 2008. Emotions would be most intense in 2003, little less in 2004 and then it would recede further and further. From 2003 to 2008, there has been not a single event of terrorism in Gujarat.

It does not make sense to believe that an event in 2008 took place because of an event in 2002. Across the country, more than 30 similar acts of terror have taken place. There is no logic behind this argument. This is a political argument launched by some people and taken up by the media.

You are handling the home ministry. You have more facts on hand than anyone else. Do you find that jihadi elements are growing in India?

I strongly believe that if you want to stop terrorism then it is necessary to have the fear of security agencies and security forces in the minds of terrorists. To nab terrorists and to punish them, we need to take a fresh look at the legal framework and instruments of government.

We need to tighten up and strengthen the government machinery to nab terrorists. I have no objections against ongoing debates and criticisms and I do not mind when intellectuals keep talking about terrorism. But we have seen the horrifying terror on the ground and there should not be any dispute among us in fighting against it. That is my request to all Indians.

We should agree and be united on this one issue. We need stronger laws to punish terrorists. We should not have any debates that would demoralise the approach of security agencies to fight terrorists.

Some people argue that when riot victims do not get legal justice they feel like taking revenge. Outfits like Harkat ul Jamaat e Islami may get support from such people.

In Bangalore, in Mumbai, in Rampur (Uttar Pradesh [Images]) or in Ajmer or Jaipur, no riots have taken place recently. Terrorism [Images] and riots are not interlinked at all. These serial blasts have been done with a certain understanding and thought. This is a pre-planned act. This is not a result of some emotional outburst.

This is a cold-blooded act to break the spine of Indian economy. These blasts are aimed to destroy the political arrangement of the nation. It wants to destroy the confidence of the people of India. These blasts have nothing to do with any emotional events.

Do you think elements from the Gujarati Muslim community may have given support to the people behind this crime?

It is very difficult for me to say anything as minister till I get evidence. But, I strongly believe that whoever has done this and whoever is behind it, the Gujarat police will nab them and make sure that they are punished. We will, once again, set an example -- they will never repeat such act, at least in Gujarat.

Modi's popularity is due to his promise of security to all. Today, his promise is dishonoured. Gujaratis are feeling insecure. How can the common man face 16 blasts?

Narendra Modi is not only known as the leader of Gujarat. He is a leader of the entire nation. He is capable to work on the national stage. It is necessary for any state chief minister to guarantee security to his people. But, you should know that a conspiracy formed by terrorists at the national level and at the international level has been working at different places in India and has reached Gujarat.

If we could not solve this conspiracy, then there is the question of this debate, but if we are able to solve this terror act then, once again, it will be proved that only the Gujarat model can solve the issue of terrorism.

Were you surprised?

I wasn't surprised but I had regrets that we were a little late. I don't want to give any further information.

Did any central agency give you prior information?

Our chief minister has said in the presence of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [Images], Home Minister Shivraj Patil [Images] and National Security Advisor M K Narayanan that information from central agencies like the Intelligence Bureau is like a weather report. In my entire tenure, I have never received any information from the IB on the basis of which we can take action.

In this event there was no information even to match a weather report. The day after the Bangalore blasts, we got an email 'alert', which was sent to 'all states'. There was no specific information about the blasts.

Surely, there is a big security lapse in the country. Otherwise how can more than 50-100 people work in one area with such co-ordination without getting caught?

There is no doubt that India's national security is lax and we need to plug the weaknesses.

Which terrorist group is likely to be behind the Ahmedabad blasts?

We will first go to the roots, analyse and only then give complete information to the media. Not even my constable will speak out of turn before the investigation is over.

Have you been able to understand the modus operandi of terrorists?

They exploded a bomb at one place; the timer was set such that the second blast took place in the same place five minutes later. They waited for the crowd to gather. Obviously, the injured will be taken to the city's prominent hospital. So they timed the bomb for an hour later at the hospital.

The blasts at hospitals show that our fight is with such despicable people. Even during war, enemies do not attack hospitals and its employees. Even medical vehicles or the Red Cross is never attacked during war. It has been proved that our fight is with people with such dreadful ideas. That is why there can be no sympathy for these people. There should not be any activity in the country that would demoralise people who are fighting these terrorists.

Don't you think POTA and TADA are not preventive measures?

Nobody is above fear. Even terrorists have fears. If there is fear of harsh punishment they will not get local support. Under POTA, 14 cases were tried in Gujarat and punishment was awarded that have helped keep Gujarat free of terrorism in the last six years.

Look at the world, too. Ours is the only country which has repealed the law against terrorism after 9/11. This is vote-bank politics and at last now if our eyes are opening then we should rise above politics.

In the last five years, national security has become weak, intelligence agencies' morale has touched rock-bottom. Political will to fight terrorism is completely absent. I blame the United Progressive Alliance, which is running like a circus. There is no co-ordination between departments; there is no command structure in government. In the last seven bomb blasts, I have been reading the same statement from the Union home minister.

Do you think these blasts were carried out by jihadi terrorists?

Obviously! It is a fact accepted by the world. Jihadi Islamic fundamentalists groups are behind bomb blasts in India.

What steps are you recommending to combat terror when you attend high-level meetings in New Delhi [Images]?

Forgive me but I must say that I have attended four high-level meetings of chief ministers and home ministers, and I have seen that there is only a cosmetic approach. No serious action is taken during the discussion. All the minutes of the meetings are turning into trash.

What kinds of suggestions has Gujarat sent?

We have recommended special training curriculum and budget for Intelligence staff on the lines of IPS and IAS. We have recommended strengthening of the Research and Analysis Wing and suggested that they be given special military training. No action is taken on suggestions. Things are static at the Centre.

Are you worried that the image of Modi as a strong leader who could provide security is weakened now?

Bomb blasts in Ahmedabad are part of a series of blasts that occurred in India. The image of Modi has nothing to do with the bomb blasts.
Wow....i really like the straight talking he does...(Surprising that the "uber-secular" Sheela Bhatt actually asked such sensible questions instead of provoking Modi)
Abhijit
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Abhijit »

shameless bhatt talked to Modi's home minister - not modi himself. rediff celebrates every time there is a bomb blast because they have something to pin back on Gujarat. on A bomb blast in Gujarat itself sends the shameless bhatt into orgasmic raptures - the woman probably prays to god for blasts in Gujarat.
Raju

Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Raju »

bombs are still being recovered from Surat. News is breaking that a live bomb has been recovered from "Ladeshwar Society" in Surat.

So Surat is sitting on a mountain of bombs which no one noticed until now ?
shiv
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by shiv »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opin ... 299388.cms
We Are Sitting Targets
29 Jul 2008, 0106 hrs IST, B Raman

India continues to bleed at the hands of jehadi terrorists, indigenous as well as from Pakistan and Bangladesh. Not only has the indigenous component been on the rise, the religious dimension of the jehad has assumed predominance over the political, economic and other elements. It seems the recently-initiated attempts of clerics and other leaders of the Muslim community to condemn the resort to terrorism is not yet having any impact on younger people. The blasts in Jaipur, Bangalore and Ahmedabad are a symbol of the failure to dissuade younger Muslims to give up the path of terrorism.

Young religious radicals of the community are determined to keep up their jehad. Whereas in the past their jehad was motivated by domestic grievances, considerations of global Islamic solidarity against the perceived enemies of Islam have become an additional motivating factor. They view the US and Israel as the main enemies of Islam. Since India's relations with the US and Israel are improving, we have to face the fallout of the jehadi anger.

The blasts are ominous for India. They mark the success of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in its efforts to Indianise the jehad by creating Indian versions of organisations such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami. They are now manned increasingly, if not totally, by Indian Muslim recruits and are being projected as the Indian Mujahideen.

The Indianisation of the jehad serves the ISI in three ways: it could aggravate the communal divide; it keeps the jehad going with limited Pakistani involvement; and Islamabad escapes pressure from the US to act against the jehadi set-up in its own territory.

Jaipur, Bangalore and Ahmedabad are only the beginning of this process. There is a danger of the Indianised jehad spreading to other areas. If it succeeds, it would not only add to political instability, but would also come in the way of our attempts to compete with China.

The atmosphere of insecurity would also cause nervousness in the foreign business and investor community.

The growing jehadi terrorism is a bleeding ulcer. The solidarity of the jehadis is, however, not confronted by the solidarity of the political class and civil society. We are frittering away our resources and energy in divisive debates marked by partisan point scoring. A disunited political class, clueless in the face of terrorism, cannot provide leadership to the counterterrorism community, which has been lurching from one failure to another.

There is very little understanding of the techniques of counterterrorism at the political level and very little appreciation of the need of the agencies for special legal powers, better technical capabilities and more human and material resources. Every country gets the counterterrorism mechanism it deserves. We have what we deserve — sometimes competent, but more often not, counterterrorism machinery. The beneficiaries are the terrorists and the ISI which is behind them.

The recent blasts were the outcome of colossal intelligence failures at the central and state levels. There is a reluctance to admit the failures, which would be the first step towards improvement. Revamping the counterterrorism capabilities of the agencies would call for better human and technical resources, better language skills and induction of more Muslim officers. There is a need for a special package of measures to achieve this.


The weaknesses and unsatisfactory record of our intelligence agencies have been a long-standing problem. Our record in successful investigation and prosecution used to be good, but it has been deteriorating due to a lack of special powers for detention and interrogation and for the collection of technical intelligence. If these special powers are not given, the slide in the quality of investigation and prosecution will continue.

Jehadi terrorism is a pan-Indian pheno-menon, striking at different places at different times. The terrorists have a common command and control; the investigative agencies do not. The investigations are being done in a piecemeal and isolated fashion with no one-point reservoir of data and no central mechanism for coordination, control and monitoring. The setting up of a federal agency for investigating terrorism cases would provide that common nodal point, but our shortsighted political leaders prefer not to have it more for partisan than for professional reasons.

Terrorism of various hues has become a perennial threat to our national security. The determination and the will to tackle that threat are missing. Only voter pressure and the danger of losing elections if one is perceived as soft and inadequate in dealing with it will improve matters. Voters should use the coming elections to send a clear message to politicians that they will be judged on the basis of their record in dealing with terrorism.

Indianised jehad is assuming a transnational dimension. The young recruits or volunteers of today are more and more motivated by pan-Islamic issues like the US war against terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan. While there is no evidence to show that the Indo-US nuclear agreement had anything to do with the surge in terrorism, the increasing US and Israeli presence in India could induce Al-Qaida and pro-Al-Qaida organisations to target their nationals and interests in India. This has to be guarded against.

Al-Qaida as an organisation is not yet present in India. But many supporters of Al-Qaida are there in our midst. They would be only too happy to act as its Trojan horses.

The writer is a Chennai-based former intelligence officer.
Click here to comment on this story.
prashanth
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by prashanth »

shiv wrote:
By what mechanism does a man lose his religion when he commits a terrorist act?
Plausible denialability, sir.
svinayak
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by svinayak »

bhavin wrote:
sunilUpa wrote:A question, how many BRF members have actually lived/worked in Gujarat atleast for a short while to understand them. How many were in Ahmedabad in 2002 or in 90's.
Gujarati Muslims are prosperous, they are very much part of vibrant economy of Gujarat, many vital cogs of economy such as Packaging and transportation are dependent on them.

For that matter Gujaratis are a class apart from rest of the Indians. :wink:

Sunil, I am not sure what you are looking for here.. but as a Gujju, I have lived my whole life (well atleast till my undergrad) in Gujarat. I lived in A'bad and was there during 2002. If you clarify what kind of info are you looking for, I will be more than happy to oblige.
Give us a sense of community life. Also the different locality in Lilavati.
We need to understand what is the std of living and also how the Muslims in Gujarat look at the state.
They have become cooperative I heard but that may be real reason for the anger.
Sanjay M
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Sanjay M »

Bogus. The Sword of Damocles of 'Indian Muslim Anger' is once again being waved around, to cover up the fact that these bombings are happening 2 days after the 123-Deal was voted through the parliament. Clearly the successful vote on 123 is why the bombings have occurred. Therefore, clearly it's ISI which launching the bombings. The willingness of Indian Muslims to collaborate with ISI is not some post-2002-Gujarat phenomenon. There have been plenty of major bombings with local involvement across India prior to Gujarat.

I see the Leftist-Islamist combine as twin sides of the same blade. Both are equally willing to undermine the country due to their irrational perceptions that society owes them something more.

If Islamists have made Modi into a larger-than-life villain, it is only with the eager help of the Indian Leftists, who are eager to stoke those flames for their own benefit. The Left have to be firmly taken on, otherwise they will keep playing their evil games until all of India is in flames.
Rupesh
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by Rupesh »

Unprepared Govt makes light of SIMI ban extension

Parvaiz Sultan | New Delhi

If one needed proof that the Centre was soft-pedalling the issue of terrorism, it was amply available on Monday before the Unlawful Activities Prevention Tribunal (UAPT). The Government came unprepared to seek continuation of the ban on the Students' Islamic Movement of India (SIMI). When UAPT, headed by Justice Geeta Mittal, wanted to know whether SIMI had caused any riots after February 2006, the Centre had no reply.




"It is the fundamental right of a person...he must know that by which action of his, such strong action has been taken against him. You are saying that SIMI was involved in communal riots, bomb blasts and destructive activities. Tell me, which riots after February 2006 were engineered by SIMI and place the material before me," Justice Mittal said. "You can't presume. You have registered 106 fresh cases. Some set in Bhopal, some in Jaipur, others in Malegaon and Ghatkopar, but there's no mention of the FIR numbers. What is the requirement of law? What is to be tested? It has serious impact", the tribunal grilled Additional Solicitor General (ASG) of India AK Pathak while expressing displeasure about the Ministry of Home Affairs' "casual approach".



Justice Mittal also said that if the Centre was claiming SIMI's involvement in these activities, the onus was on the Government to place the proof on record. Meanwhile, the banned outfit's counsel Jawahar Raja submitted, "The notification of February 2008 reads: 'The Central Government is of opinion that SIMI continues to indulge in activities for which it was banned earlier and the activists of SIMI are still indulging in communal and anti-social activities. The activities of SIMI are detrimental to the peace, integrity and maintenance of the secular fabric of Indian society and that it is an unlawful association'. But no ground for the notification and no reason for the immediate ban has been spelt out."



Pointing to the "casual approach" of the Centre, Raja said the notification was signed a month after its publication though it should have been done earlier. The organisation was banned in 2001 for its alleged involvement in unlawful activities. "The ban on SIMI has been extended by the Centre on the same ground. There's no fresh material," Raja contended. Addressing the ASG, Justice Mittal said, "To rely on your previous notification and claim that SIMI is still involved in such activities, you will have to connect the original crime."



The UAPT was hearing the Government's appeal to extend the ban on SIMI. The ASG, contending on behalf of the Union Government, justified the ban and sought another two-year extension on it.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.as ... nter_img=2
p_saggu
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by p_saggu »

Really the guys who planted bombs in hospitals MUST be caught and made an example of.
These psychopaths need to be brought on camera and must confess how they thought up the plan to bomb a hospital. It will be chilling but a kick on our complacent musharrafs is what is needed to pay serious heed to national security and national image.
We indians - political leadership, police, common man have this chalta hai attitude, cutting corners all the time when it comes to this very vital issue.
National security and national image need to be overseen by highly motivated and paranoid people.
And finally, pakistan MUST be destroyed / dismembered, ISI / Senior Pakistan Army officer's families need to be targetted, Terrorists need to be identified all the way to their families - blackmail these terror masters. When a mighty institution like the Indian intelligence apparatus gets moving, no mere individual can stand in the way - and so be it.
Pakistan needs to feel first hand the extreme prejudice and high handedness that our intelligence agencies are capable of.
WRT china, we need to don a fresh pair of gloves, and start hurting the lizards where it hurts the most - the message needs to clearly get across - you foment naxalism within india, arm ULFA and other NE groups, Encourage Pakistan and Bangladesh to carry out terror attacks within india - You get payback in kind.
vipins
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Post by vipins »

live bomb found tied to a tree in surat... :evil:
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