Indian Naval Discussion

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 14 Oct 2011 22:08

I wish there were plans of gutting the old stuff out and re-doing it completely. These are nice birds, wish to see them longer with IN.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 15 Oct 2011 13:24

Balance between Resources & manpower is Indian Navys primary challenge: Admiral Verma

INS Investigator awarded Admiral Jal Cursetji Trophy for Best Survey Ship 2010-2011

sum · Post by **sum** » 15 Oct 2011 14:17

Navy plans to increase manpower by 10-15 pc

The Indian Navy is all set to increase its officer and sailor strength by 10-15 per cent who would be deployed on all new ships, submarines and aircraft to be inducted in the next five years for maintaining the combative edge in the Indian Ocean region.

Outlining the road map to its top commanders here on Friday, Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma said contracts for five Offshore Patrol Vessels, two Cadet Training Ships, eight Amphibious Landing Craft and Fast Interceptor Craft concluded in the last few months. Besides these vessels, the Navy is getting large ships like two aircraft carriers, nine nuclear and conventional submarines and a large number of destroyers and frigates, which are under constructions at various ship yards in India and abroad.

On the aviation side, the first batch of MiG 29K aircraft for Vikramaditya had been inducted this year. The first flight of the P8I Maritime Patrol Aircraft took place in September and the first aircraft is on schedule for induction in 2013. The Navy plans to induct as many as 12 of them. Sustaining the new platforms would require an increase in manpower.

Since an officer’s training takes about 4-5 years and sailor’s training about two years, the Navy has already begun increasing its intake of officers and sailors, which would continue for at least next five years, sources said.

The Navy chief said highest priority was accorded in creating forward operating bases, operational turn around bases and naval air enclaves on the mainland and in the islands at the earliest.

The plan is to make three forward operating bases in Andaman and Nicober Islands — Campbell Bay, Diglipur and Kamorta — two naval air enclaves in Andaman (Shivpur) and Karwar and two operational turn around bases in Paradip and Tuticorin. Most of which would be ready by 2013.

Which are 9 subs talked about which are already contracted?
6 scorpene + 1 Nerpa + 1 Arihant + ??

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 15 Oct 2011 14:20

I think he means Aridaman.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Oct 2011 18:52

I think the plan was for a total of 5 Arihant class boats. Plus the Admiral is ignoring the 6 boats of the P 75I and P 76 class planned to be built af201ter the scorpean class project is completed. When ever that is.

The first of the Kilos will need to be replaced from 2018 onwards, if one assumes a service life of 30 years for a Modern SUB. And the first of the 209s even sooner.

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Oct 2011 13:34

^^ Very Senior chai-wallah had once mentioned 4 boats being contracted to SBC but media reports mention 5...wonder which is true?

pkudva · Post by **pkudva** » 16 Oct 2011 14:31

As of now...the total contracted to SBC is 3!!!

Cheers.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Oct 2011 17:10

Sea trials of aircraft carrier Gorshkov put off

New Delhi, October 16, 2011

Sea trials of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which is getting a face-lift ahead of its induction in the Indian Navy, have been postponed for another five to six months due to the onset of winters in Russia. "We have to change the trial plans as they can't be held during the winters.

So, now we will carry out all the trials to be held in the harbour during the winter and then hold the sea trials after the winter is over," senior Defence Ministry sources told PTI on Sunday.
They said the change in trial plans will not affect the delivery schedule of the aircraft carrier, which India has procured at a cost of USD 2.33 billion. The project has already been delayed by over three years.

As per the earlier schedule, the sea trials were to be conducted starting November but they are now expected to be held only after February-March timeframe, they said.

The progress of the project was reviewed during the visit of Defence Minister A K Antony to Russia on October 5 and 6.

The ship is being refitted at Sevmash shipyard in the Russian White Sea port of Severodvinsk and is expected to be delivered by December 2012.

The original USD 1.5 billion contract signed in 2004 between Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Navy envisioned that work on the aircraft carrier would be completed in 2008.

Of the contracted amount, USD 750 million was for the retrofit of the carrier, docked at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia for the past 12 years.

The balance was for modern weaponry, including MiG-29K Fulcrum aircraft and Ka-27 Helix-A and Ka-31 Helix-B anti-submarine helicopters.

Russia later claimed it had underestimated the scale and the cost of the modernisation and demanded an additional $1.2 billion, which New Delhi said was "exorbitant".

India then agreed in 2009 for the $2.3 billion price for the aircraft carrier, which is now rechristened INS Vikramaditya.

Nirmal · Post by **Nirmal** » 16 Oct 2011 18:29

SBC=?
As far as I recollect, Open sources quoted a total of 5 Nuclear Submarines are planned of which 3 Hulls have been fabricated and delivered to Vishakapatnam. The remaining two are likely to be slightly different hence the 'hold-back/slow progress'. L&T are the contractors for all the 5 Hulls of the boats being manufactured @Hazira, Gujrat.

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Oct 2011 19:29

SBC= Ship Building Center, Vizag

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Oct 2011 19:30

Sea trials of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which is getting a face-lift ahead of its induction in the Indian Navy, have been postponed for another five to six months due to the onset of winters in Russia. "We have to change the trial plans as they can't be held during the winters.

And the saga continues....

Hope this onset of winter doesnt hit the Nerpa after all the interior redecoration for a year..

Nirmal · Post by **Nirmal** » 16 Oct 2011 20:19

Thank you Sum for that extplanation.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 16 Oct 2011 20:22

If an offer seems too good to be true... The Gorshkov deal was supposed to give the Indian navy a quick, cheap carrier and obviously it has turned out to be neither. The real kick in the teeth is the purchase of the Mig-29ks. These come with no AESA radar and since no one but India operates them be prepared to be raped wrt spares. I hope at least the people who were bribed to buy this junk ( and the Tin can-90s) enjoy their money

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 16 Oct 2011 21:24

This has been discussed before, We had no other option but to go down this route, Once we chose the Gorshkov, The mig 29's were part of the package. Even with the price esclations and endless delays at the end of the day when we FINALLY get her she will be a beaut and value for money. Very potent package. 5 to 7 years down the line when we compare our multiple air craft carriers(fingers crossed)with feedback from the boys in white, lets take up this discussion.

About the 29's the russian navy is looking at using the 29's for her naval wing.

What if down the line we can have the 29's refuelled by a tanker? What stops us putting in our own avionics 10 years down the line,
We may even be able to do this without the aid of Isreal. Blakmail and gouging only work to a stage, case in point world wide sourcing for russian spares. Every setback when looked at 10 to 15 years after the fact will show up with a silver lining, Because u adapt.

We are at an awkward stage in our Military industrial development, there in select spheres (cutting edge)and totally absent in others
because we have prioritised our resources and done well eg missiles.
Its like the 6 foot 3 inch 16 year old pacifist, being pushed around by older boys, a lot of potential but has to grow into those bones.
This potential has already been analysed by our reptilian neighbour to the north and east. That is why we are being squezed at this adolesent stage in our modern history It is our navy which will be the dominant arm of the arm forces if and when we become a global power

Sorry slightly OT on this.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 17 Oct 2011 05:47

Eric Leiderman wrote:T...... We had no other option but to go down this route, Once we chose the Gorshkov, The mig 29's were part of the package. Even with the price esclations and endless delays at the end of the day when we FINALLY get her she will be a beaut and value for money. Very potent package. 5 to 7 years down the line when we compare our multiple air craft carriers(fingers crossed)with feedback from the boys in white, lets take up this discussion.

How pathetic is this? No options.. choice of a/c dictated by vendor, delivery dictated by vendor. Still when FINALLY Gorky arrives.....!
Russia can play God if India does not play ball geopolitically - delaying first the carrier and then the spares for the propulsion etc!! Enjoy!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Oct 2011 10:24

Nirmal wrote:SBC=?
As far as I recollect, Open sources quoted a total of 5 Nuclear Submarines are planned of which 3 Hulls have been fabricated and delivered to Vishakapatnam. The remaining two are likely to be slightly different hence the 'hold-back/slow progress'. L&T are the contractors for all the 5 Hulls of the boats being manufactured @Hazira, Gujrat.

The nubie pooch that the I have is how are the Hulls of the boats being moved from Hazira to Vizag and none of the major powers are able to spy on the boat during the transit.

Also with the L&T being a Pvt sector yard with an open audit of its books, it will become clear to any one who pays attention that they have orders worth several 000 crs from MOD.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Oct 2011 10:26

Ajatshatru wrote:
Sea trials of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which is getting a face-lift ahead of its induction in the Indian Navy, have been postponed for another five to six months due to the onset of winters in Russia. "We have to change the trial plans as they can't be held during the winters.
The never ending story....

More like a never ending wait. This has turned into another arty saga.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Oct 2011 10:26

The nubie pooch that the I have is how are the Hulls of the boats being moved from Hazira to Vizag and none of the major powers are able to spy on the boat during the transit.

Why are we assuming that the "major" powers are not keeping track of all this?

Might not be splashed all over their publications but am sure files somewhere will be tracking all this.

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 17 Oct 2011 10:37

Vivek K wrote:How pathetic is this? No options.. choice of a/c dictated by vendor, delivery dictated by vendor. Still when FINALLY Gorky arrives.....!
Russia can play God if India does not play ball geopolitically - delaying first the carrier and then the spares for the propulsion etc!! Enjoy!

Very pathetic, but still what options do we had at that point of time? The recent Indo-Khan goodie goodie was not there, EU did not had any second hand carrier and the price tag of the new carrier from EU is something which we still cannot afford, forget 1999-00 where we were just recovering from the near bankruptsy of 90s.

Coming to second part, We dont have crystal mirror to guage in future. what we have is past which can be analyised and future can be modeled. Based on that, whatever you say is very improbable.

Further, the scenario of vendor being god can be played by every one - King Khan, EU every one... So what do we do? Enjoy! no... we are doing what we ought to do... IAC is being built, Tejas in nearing FOC, AMCA and FGFA on cards, Agni series and k Series under development, Arjun under trials, Rudra and LCH, LOH and ALH, etc.... Besides, other than this hard measures, Soft measures like growing economy and integration with world economy will take care of holding spares like scenario, but will requires balls on part of our leaders... If any contry holds any spares, why cant we lay sanctions.. Lay additional duties (heavy duties) to the companies operating in the India of that country... Ofcourse they will also replicate and give us pain, but that anyways will happen to us if they hold spares in crucial times.

It takes time but certainly we will certainly achieve this. India has history of rising from ground and reach the pinnacle and i am certain my blessed nation will do it again.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Oct 2011 10:49

It is a fact that due to the excessive solar activity (Mayans and 2012 again!) which is peaking with the 11 yr. cycle next year too,Europe is experiencing their harshest winters for ages.If one looks at the Russian shipyard pics,the outstanding feature is the amount of ice and snow that ones sees in pics of ships and subs.This will have a crippling effect on certain aspects of sea trials,but it is only the IN team on hand at the shipyard,that can ascertain whether the "5 month" period is a valid excuse or not.Delays also come with penalties.

The MIG-29Ks are excellent aircraft and come in at very reasonable costs,the whole 48 or was it the the first lot at about a Billion was it not,making it far cheaper than an M-2000 upgrade costing almost twice as much! Even when the Gorky arrives,its final cost will be much cheaper than if a new carrier of such size was newly built.I gave figures some time ago.The hard truth is that until we master the art of dsigning and building carriers ourselves,we will be dependant upon others.Let's see how fast we can build our own IAC-1 with as little delays as far as possible.Remember,the vulture is a patient bird.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 17 Oct 2011 11:39

Philip wrote:<snip>.This will have a crippling effect on certain aspects of sea trials,but it is only the IN team on hand at the shipyard,that can ascertain whether the "5 month" period is a valid excuse or not. Delays also come with penalties.
</snip>

I'm amazed how far the argument can be stretched. Russia has never paid India for delays, even when it was stipulated by the contract. Multiple Parliamentary Standing committees have rapped the MoD for this.

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 17 Oct 2011 12:02

^^^I understand some penalties were offset (received) during the order of first batch of talwar class ships. Austin had posted some link of MOD report confirming the same, if my memories serves me right.

Although, i believe no amount of penalty is good enough to make good the loss arising out of lack of operational preparedness because of delay

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Oct 2011 12:48

^^^I understand some penalties were offset (received) during the order of first batch of talwar class ships. Austin had posted some link of MOD report confirming the same, if my memories serves me right.

I think the penalty here referred to the Vik and not Talwar...

Now even solar flares( by Indians and not even the Russians) are being used to justify further 6 months delay? Sounds similar to the "Russians are doing favour to India by delaying Nerpa since India doesnt even have berthing facilities" logic...

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 17 Oct 2011 13:23

Pratyush wrote:
Nirmal wrote:SBC=?
As far as I recollect, Open sources quoted a total of 5 Nuclear Submarines are planned of which 3 Hulls have been fabricated and delivered to Vishakapatnam. The remaining two are likely to be slightly different hence the 'hold-back/slow progress'. L&T are the contractors for all the 5 Hulls of the boats being manufactured @Hazira, Gujrat.
The nubie pooch that the I have is how are the Hulls of the boats being moved from Hazira to Vizag and none of the major powers are able to spy on the boat during the transit.

Also with the L&T being a Pvt sector yard with an open audit of its books, it will become clear to any one who pays attention that they have orders worth several 000 crs from MOD.

See this post for the details.

Usually during transport the segments are covered under tarpaulin to prevent boori nazar!

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 17 Oct 2011 13:46

sum wrote:

^^^I understand some penalties were offset (received) during the order of first batch of talwar class ships. Austin had posted some link of MOD report confirming the same, if my memories serves me right.
I think the penalty here referred to the Vik and not Talwar...

Now even solar flares( by Indians and not even the Russians) are being used to justify further 6 months delay? Sounds similar to the "Russians are doing favour to India by delaying Nerpa since India doesnt even have berthing facilities" logic...

Sirji, I understand penalty is referred to Vik and not Talwar, My post was just to remind that we actually levy and charge penalty. Since VIk is not yet completed, the same is not received. We may see the same charged in some future project. Alternatively, it might also happen that penaltly might have been calculated at ariving the latest figure of 2.33 BN USD which in that case means renegotiation was more than 2.33 Bn and after ofsetting penalty, 2.33bn was arrived.

No, I am not justifying the delay, Solar flares or whatever should not be reason to justify the delay. Infact if you look at second part of my last post, i have clearly mentioned that no amount of penalty can compensate for delay.

My concern starts only at the point when some one try to take Russians for toss, questioning their intentions. I dont understand how can we compare timely delay of C 130 or C 17 (as reports suggest will be delivered timely) to something like gorky. Whereas the former is ready product daily produced from assembly line (wont mention that the assembly line exists only because of forced orders to keep the jobs going, actully i mentioned it

), the other is substantial project in itself.

Besides, saying russians playing like god and holding spares at crucial times, would like to ask if we have any hint of it in past, if yes, please provide details. And while saying so, we convinently forget the real life facts of sending CBG 7th fleet againt the nation, LCA FBW codes confiscated, sanctions and what not. How convinently we forget over 40Mn/aircraft deal against 15Mn/aircraft deal offering similar or better capabilities or delay in scorpenes? We never praise them for Mig 29UPG deal but we have quote example of gorky. Americans are new entrants in the pie. Let the tunnel come and we will know what is their modus operandi of sucking our blood apart from sanctions and more sanctions.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Oct 2011 13:48

pic of INS Betwa and RN RFA Dilligence on exercise off konkan. mighty peculiar ship that.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k5oI_uissWs/T ... 729327.JPG

ugly looking but from its description sounds like a useful thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFA_Diligence_%28A132%29

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Oct 2011 14:25

Sirji, I understand penalty is referred to Vik and not Talwar, My post was just to remind that we actually levy and charge penalty. Since VIk is not yet completed, the same is not received. We may see the same charged in some future project. Alternatively, it might also happen that penaltly might have been calculated at ariving the latest figure of 2.33 BN USD which in that case means renegotiation was more than 2.33 Bn and after ofsetting penalty, 2.33bn was arrived.

No, I am not justifying the delay, Solar flares or whatever should not be reason to justify the delay. Infact if you look at second part of my last post, i have clearly mentioned that no amount of penalty can compensate for delay.

No issues...i wasnt referring to your post for the flares etc

Definitely the Americans are blood suckers themselves but at that time, one wont hear India being blamed if US does some hanky panky like how we now see the IN being taken to task by some( when it came to the matter of underestimation of cabling of Vik) for negotiating a good deal for India and Russia being made to look like a Saint who can do no wrong

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 17 Oct 2011 16:28

Southern Naval Command, Kochi Police and CISF train together

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 17 Oct 2011 20:16

India signs Rs 300 crore deal to procure 80 fast-interception craft (FICs) from Sri Lankan firm.

India has signed a deal worth over Rs 300 crore to procure 80 fast-interception craft (FICs) from a Sri Lankan firm to equip Navy's Sagar Prahari Bal (SPB) being raised after the 26/11 terror attacks in Mumbai. The Rs 300 crore contract for the 80 boats was signed with the Sri Lanka-based SOLAS Marine about three weeks ago and they are scheduled to be delivered in the next three years, Navy officials said here. The Sri Lanka-based firm was selected after a global tendering process by the Navy in June. These 80 FICs will be in addition to the 15 similar boats being acquired from French shipyard Chantier Naval Couach, three of which have already been inducted at Mumbai. With 1,000 well-armed personnel, the SPB will be tasked with the protection of naval and other assets, bases and harbours on both west and east coasts. It was one of the steps announced by the government after 26/11. FICs are small boats, with a crew of five to seven sailors and top speeds of 40 to 50 knots, are equipped with light machine guns. After 26/11, several steps have been taken to boost coordination in intelligence-sharing and operational matters, with fully-networked joint operation centres being set up in different locations.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Oct 2011 10:04

tejas wrote:If an offer seems too good to be true... The Gorshkov deal was supposed to give the Indian navy a quick, cheap carrier and obviously it has turned out to be neither. The real kick in the teeth is the purchase of the Mig-29ks. These come with no AESA radar and since no one but India operates them be prepared to be raped wrt spares. I hope at least the people who were bribed to buy this junk ( and the Tin can-90s) enjoy their money

what has the Gorshkov's delays got to do with the MiG-29Ks? From all reports, the IN is happy with them and they are a HUGE capability and safety improvement over the Sea Harriers, even the LUSH ones. So calling them junk is hardly fair.

Besides, there is no reason why the IN cannot go for a mid-life upgrade for these MiG-29K's in another 10 years and get an AESA derived from the MiG-35 (if that fighter ever enters service) that has been updated thanks to the work on the PAK-FA and Su-30MKI upgrades.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Oct 2011 10:09

Philip wrote:It is a fact that due to the excessive solar activity (Mayans and 2012 again!) which is peaking with the 11 yr. cycle next year too,Europe is experiencing their harshest winters for ages.If one looks at the Russian shipyard pics,the outstanding feature is the amount of ice and snow that ones sees in pics of ships and subs.This will have a crippling effect on certain aspects of sea trials,but it is only the IN team on hand at the shipyard,that can ascertain whether the "5 month" period is a valid excuse or not.Delays also come with penalties.

I like how you even bring in weather related issues and consider them as being possible excuses for the new delay that we're seeing..

But I have a nagging feeling that you'd not have been so amenable to any excuse if the delay was on our part.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Oct 2011 10:24

nrshah wrote:
My concern starts only at the point when some one try to take Russians for toss, questioning their intentions. I dont understand how can we compare timely delay of C 130 or C 17 (as reports suggest will be delivered timely) to something like gorky. Whereas the former is ready product daily produced from assembly line (wont mention that the assembly line exists only because of forced orders to keep the jobs going, actully i mentioned it ), the other is substantial project in itself..

not asking for much, but be fair at least ! the C-130J is a very versatile aircraft that has been very widely liked and ordered the world over. Don't blame govts for ordering them because their Air Forces like them and want them by implying that its only to save an assembly line..you cannot force so many nations to order an airplane and force Air Force officials to make statements about how happy they are with these transports..

the fact that the 5 we received so far were delivered before time (forget delays) is something to admire, not scoff at. It shows a very streamlined and well managed process and making transports is not a small task either, which you clearly imply..in fact quite the opposite, assembly line or not. Only a very uninformed person would say so. Yes, it is a product that has matured now and hence a smooth production operation is going on at LM, but don't belittle that. that the IAF is already looking to order another 12 of the C-130J is thanks to what they think of it and also thanks to the tardiness that Russia has shown with regards to the MTA program. the RM's recent displeasure being conveyed to the Russians in this regard says as much.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Oct 2011 10:26

terrific picture of a hulk hurtling down the runway

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Oct 2011 10:30

Looks like it just passed a routine overhaul.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Oct 2011 11:59

It is a routine overhaul for engine and aircraft , probably it may come with latest DRDO jammers and ESM but no ASW upgrade suite.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 18 Oct 2011 12:58

Indian navy seminar on Maritime Electro Magnetic Environmental Effects Management begins

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Oct 2011 13:41

He!He! No,the actual facts are simply too catastrophic to contemplate.Earlier this year,the British Def. Min. warned everyone about the impending burst of solar flare activity,the likes of which we have not experienced for millenia.The British Def.establishment was having emergency meetings to prepare for such an eventuality.Should this happen,there will be havoc worlwide,with every instrument that has EM activity going bersekr.Aircraft flying would lose their systems,ships too,tel commns. destroyed as sats go on the blink.Life as we know it would go back a century+ thanks to the destruction of the digital age.NO BR for example! Simply dreadful!

2012,the movie notwithstanding is the end of a Mayan Solar long cycle,which according to thir history always brings with it natural calamities and unmitigated disasters.We have seen in the last few years the Asian tsunami,Hurricane Katrina,Paki floods,THai floods this year,the Fukushima disaster and several other natural disasters ,which are on the increase and in intensity.THat weather patterns have gone haywire is a fact.It indeed may be a fact that acute cold weather is hampering Russian sea trials of the vessel,as if you look at the map,most of the Russian yards are located in the cold zone.

Rest assured though that if the vessel is delayed beyond reasonable happenings,the GOI will impose penalties as it has done in earlier cases.We must also remember as stated in an above post that this is the renovation and total repair and conversion of a cruiser-carrier into a Ctrue flat-top. Only the sea trials are remaining,pray for good weather!

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 18 Oct 2011 14:43

Austin wrote:It is a routine overhaul for engine and aircraft , probably it may come with latest DRDO jammers and ESM but no ASW upgrade suite.

Guess there is an Optic pod added to the chin in the above pic. The same was different in the linked picture posted in the previous page:

http://russianplanes.net/images/to57000/056394.jpg

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 19 Oct 2011 02:49

MN Kumar wrote:
Austin wrote:It is a routine overhaul for engine and aircraft , probably it may come with latest DRDO jammers and ESM but no ASW upgrade suite.
Guess there is an Optic pod added to the chin in the above pic. The same was different in the linked picture posted in the previous page:
http://russianplanes.net/images/to57000/056394.jpg

Good observation, in the first picture (link), it looks smaller than the one embedded in the page above.
Edited: I checked multiple pictures of the same plane, I am not able to makeout any difference, the difference if any could be due to the angle.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 19 Oct 2011 04:54

Re. Vikad/Nerpa delays. May be the dragon is bribing the bear to keep the elephant at bay?

CM