China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

[johnny_m]

Pakistans operational requirements (according to many Pakistany posters including knowledgeble ones in various fora) require them to have a smaller single engined fighter. I don't think the J 20 fits that profile, I do believe that the Chinese will develop a smaller single engined fifth gen for the Pakis.

[shiv]

Pakistans operational requirements (according to many Pakistany posters including knowledgeble ones in various fora) require them to have a smaller single engined fighter.

If a Pakistani says that it means:
1) They can't afford the J-20
2) Begging won't get them the plane.

Pakistanis never ever say anything negative about themselves.

Having said that I would not put it Past China to gift her favorite prostitute with some of the aircraft. After all any Chinese who needs sex (male) has to just nod at the nearest Pakistani and the latter will make himself available and sing happy songs of praise while he gets it done

[merlin]

So the US gets a look-see at Chinese J20 once its in Pak hands. Reverse of the F-16 story.

[Raghavendra]

Shows the worth of chinese premier's words

China issues stapled visas to two Arunachalees

Itanagar, Jan 12 (PTI)
In spite of Premier Wen Jiabao's assurance that China will take serious note of India's concerns over the issue of stapled visas, the handing over of such documents to two Arunchalees prevented them from flying to Beijing today.

Indian Weightlifting Federation's Joint Secretary Abraham K Techi along with a weightlifter of the state were shocked when officials at New Delhi's IGI Airport turned them away because of the stapled visas issued by the Chinese Embassy.

Techi and the weightlifter, who were to visit the country at the invitation of Chinese Weightlifting Association president Menguang for the January 15-17 China Weightlifting Grand Prix at Fujian province, thereafter contacted the Chinese Embassy.

The Chinese officials at the Embassy informed me that the 'right' visas have been issued to us, Techi told PTI.

"This is an insult and unnecessary harassment to Arunchalees," Techi said.

Reacting to the incident, Congress Lok Sabha member Takam Sanjoy said though Sino-India relations have been improving with New Delhi and Beijing taking positive steps, the border issue, China's repeated claims over Arunachal Pradesh territory and stapled visas to residents of Jammu and Kashmir were contentious issues which were hindrances.

Sanjoy said though India, particularly Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, took very bold steps during Wen's visit in December last year to further strengthen bilateral ties, the Chinese government had proved its policy to consolidate its claim on Arunachal territory.

During his visit, Wen had said that officials of India and China should have "in-depth" discussions to resolve the differences on stapled visas issued to those hailing from Jammu and Kashmir. He also said that China takes India's concerns on the issue seriously.

China started the practice of issuing stapled visas to people from Jammu and Kashmir two years back. India sees this as an act amounting to questioning the state's integration with rest of the country.

In 2007 China had denied visa to senior IAS officer Ganesh Koyu who hailed from Arunachal Pradesh and was a member of 107 strong IAS officers' team on a management programme to China.

A study visit to Beijing and Shanghai, part of a programme to learn more about Chinese economic growth and policies, was cancelled at the intervention of the Prime Minister because of Beijing's refusal to grant visa to Koyu.

Earlier, Vishal Nabam, now advisor to Chief Minister Dorjee Khandu, had visited China on a month-long tourist visa in 2006.

[DavidD]

Some fun pics showing the F-22, J-20, and T-50 at similar angles:

http://i53.tinypic.com/2w21smf.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/ru4n6p.jpg

Someone processed the underside pics of the J-20, you can see faint outlines of zigzag edges of the bomb bay door(seems clearest on the bottom left pic):

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9985 ... alysis.jpg

It seems like the finish on the J-20 is pretty good when looking at panel lines, it also helps to be painted with a pretty dark color, making panel lines almost impossible to tell when it's not being illuminated by say the sun. On the illuminated upper side, panel lines are more visible:

http://s007.radikal.ru/i301/1101/1f/610f9d031fdb.jpg

[shiv]

Shows the worth of chinese premier's words

China issues stapled visas to two Arunachalees

Wrong thread sir. Wrong thread.

[shiv]

Someone processed the underside pics of the J-20, you can see faint outlines of zigzag edges of the bomb bay door(seems clearest on the bottom left pic):

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9985 ... alysis.jpg

It seems like the finish on the J-20 is pretty good when looking at panel lines, it also helps to be painted with a pretty dark color, making panel lines almost impossible to tell when it's not being illuminated by say the sun. On the illuminated upper side, panel lines are more visible:

http://s007.radikal.ru/i301/1101/1f/610f9d031fdb.jpg

No David no. Those are not doors. They are panels that cover up places where doors might be placed in future.

[joygoswami]

Sir, does this mean that our Navy might be tempted to choose the F-35 VTOL version ? Although we still have lot of time before J-20 is finally gets IOC, and we may have FGFA before them. Funny thing is that many of our Pakroaches friends have already started calling it their PAK-FA and some fools even say the current PAK-FA is theirs because of the word PAK
Its a 50-50 chance that US may add a little more to its annual bheek to thE PakRoaches, so that they can have a look at the J-20.

Here are some few brilliant Chinese products and services !

Chinese Clone Bajaj Pulsar


Chinese version of the old Bajaj M80


Train to China !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntOxTlbM ... re=related

[Kanson]

http://ramanstrategicanalysis.blogspot. ... as-it.html

B.RAMAN

There is so much happening in China and with such rapidity that I find it difficult to keep pace with it. I do hope that the Indian intelligence agencies are keeping themselves abreast of what has been going on in China and the role of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in it.

2. The PLA has been making remarkable use of the Internet and China's vast and ever-growing community of Netizens to keep their people informed of its achievements and to create a national pride in them. They are using the community of Netizens--- many of them apparently military personnel--- in various ways to collect information about the rest of the world, to disseminate information about China and its military achievements and to undertake a psychological warfare.

3. Till a few months ago, I used to spend about an hour every morning to go through China's government and party controlled print media in order to get a hang of what has been going on in China. Now I find that the monitoring of the print media alone is no longer adequate for a proper understanding of China. One has to do a systematic monitoring of the mushrooming web sites, blogs and micro-blogs. The English used in these sites and blogs is of poor quality as compared to the excellent English in the print media. As a result, one has difficulty in having a proper understanding. One has to visit multiple sites for a clear understanding.

4. The way the PLA made the world aware of its success in developing a Stealth aircraft much before the West expected it to do so is a good example of how it uses the Internet to project its strength. In December, many Internet sites in China carried pictures of a prototype Stealth aircraft undergoing runway tests in an airfield near Chengdu.

5. Then on January 11, as Robert Gates, the visiting US Defence Secretary, who arrived in Beijing on January 9, was getting ready to call on President Hu Jintao, Internet sites in China were full of pictures of the Stealth aircraft undergoing its first test flight from an airfield near Chengdu in the Sichuan province for about 15 minutes on January 11. It has been reported that some Netizens actually gave a virtual running commentary of the flight. If true, this would have been possible only if the PLA had alerted military-connected Netizens about the impending test flight.

6. It has been reported that Gates asked Hu during his meeting with him whether these accounts are correct. It has been further reported that Hu confirmed that the reports are correct, but he claimed that the first test flight had nothing to do with Gates' visit and that it had been planned sometime ago.

7. Gates was apparently taken by surprise by the test flight on the day he was meeting Hu, but was Hu himself aware that the PLA was going to carry out the test flight that day? Some reports say that while the PLA had taken the approval of the Central Military Commission for the test flight, its doing so on the day of Gates' meeting with Hu was a surprise even to the Chinese political leadership. It will be difficult to confirm this. However, it is noticed that Xi Jinping, a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, member of the Secretariat of the CPC Central Committee, Vice President of the People's Republic of China, Vice Chairman of the CPC Central Military Commission and President of the Party School of the CPC Central Committee, had reportedly visited Chengdu around this period.He is projected as Hu's successor-designate as the Chinese President and party General Secretary . The reports of his visit would tend to rule out the possibility of the PLA taking the political leadership by surprise by timing the test flight on the day of Gates' meeting with Hu. According to the BBC, Xi Jinping visited the airfield on January 8 presumably to witness a test flight that was aborted due to bad weather.

8. Annexed are two detailed reports on the test flight carried on January 12 by the "People's Daily" online and the "China DailY . (12-1-11)

( The writer is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute for Topical Studies, Chennai, and Associate of the Chennai Centre For China Studies. E-mail: seventyone2@gmail.com )

ANNEXURE I
( From the "People's Daily" online of January 12,2011)

China's stealth fighter J20 takes to air
January 12, 2011


President Hu Jintao confirmed China yesterday conducted its first test flight of a stealth fighter jet, which marks dramatic progress in the country's efforts to develop cutting-edge military technologies.

After talks with the Chinese president, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Hu told him that the maiden test flight of the advanced J-20 fighter jet prototype was not timed to coincide with his visit and had been planned earlier.

"I asked President Hu about it directly, and he said that the test had absolutely nothing to do with my visit and had been a preplanned test. And that's where we left it," Gates told reporters.

Gates is visiting Beijing, seeking to improve often tense military relations.

China yesterday successfully tested its radar-eluding fighter.

The prototype plane, known as J-20, took off from an airstrip at the site of Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group at 12:50pm in the southwestern city of Chengdu.

The flight lasted for about 18 minutes, with a J-10 fighter - China's last homegrown jet - accompanying the J-20.

Although it will be some years before the J-20 enters service, it is a potential rival to the US F-22 Raptor, the only stealth fighter currently operating.

The US is also employing stealth technology on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, while Russia's Sukhoi T-50's stealth fighter made its maiden flight last year and is set to enter service in about four years.

In photographs, China's twin-engine J-20 appears larger than either the Russian or US fighters, potentially allowing it to fly further and carry heavier weapons.

The plane is developed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group.

China's aviation industry - both military and civilian - has made rapid progress in recent years but still relies heavily on imported technology.

Propulsion has been a particular problem, with Russian engines still powering the J-10 and J-11, a copy of Russia's Su-27 fighter.

Stealth technology is even more difficult to master as it relies on systems to hide the presence of the plane, while equipping the pilot with information to attack an enemy. Emissions must be hidden and the fuselage sculpted to avoid detection by radar and infrared sensors.

Despite the challenges, the J-20's entry into the test flight stage seems to indicate China is progressing faster than expected with the new technology, even though the plane's true capabilities aren't known.

Analysts said two prototypes have been developed, with one employing a Russian engine and the other a Chinese one. It wasn't clear which prototype flew yesterday.

Chinese progress also potentially calls into question Gates' decision to cap production of the F-22 at 187 planes, partly because of claims that China would not have a fifth-generation fighter for many years to come.

Along with the J-20, China's military is developing sophisticated new warships, submarines, missiles and possibly one or more aircraft carriers.

Source: Shanghai Daily

ANNEXURE II
( From the "China Daily" of January 12 )

Test flight of stealth jet reported
By Zhao Lei (China Daily)
'Event not targeted at any country'

BEIJING - China staged a test flight of its first stealth fighter jet on Tuesday, according to online news sites and Internet blogs.

Although the government and the military have yet to formally confirm the news, an official with the Ministry of National Defense seemed to corroborate it.

Asked by the media to confirm the test flight at a news conference, Guan Youfei, deputy director of the ministry's foreign affairs office, said: "As for the event you mentioned, it is not targeted at any country or particular target, nor does it intentionally coincide with the visit by US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. It was a normal and routine arrangement.

"China has developed some weaponry to safeguard its national sovereignty, security and territorial integrity ... China's military development must be correctly assessed."

Gates told reporters after talks with President Hu Jintao that the maiden test flight of the advanced J-20 fighter jet prototype was part of their discussions.

Gates said Hu told him that the maiden test flight was not timed to coincide with his visit.

"I asked President Hu about it directly, and he said that the test had absolutely nothing to do with my visit and had been a pre-planned test. And that's where we left it," Gates was quoted as saying by Reuters.

Asked to comment on reports about the test flight, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei sidestepped the question.

He said it is "quite normal" for any country to update its weaponry, and China has done so based on "its own security and defense needs" and "no particular country is targeted".

The test flight of the radar-eluding fighter jet in Chengdu, Sichuan province, has been widely reported on Chinese Internet blogs and online news sites.

The test flight of the two-engine, fourth generation fighter jet, which lasted 15 minutes, has been hailed by Chinese aviation enthusiasts and military fans as a glorious chapter in the history of the country's aviation industry and in the modernization drive of the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

According to Internet reports, which cited witnesses, the prototype took off at 12:50 pm and landed at around 1:05 pm at an unidentified airfield in Chengdu, which, along with Shenyang in Liaoning province and Xi'an in Shaanxi province, accommodates one of the country's most important and advanced aviation industry bases.

They showed pictures of a fighter plane in flight, and some offered what were cast as running accounts of the J-20 stealth jet fighter taking off for a short flight.

An online video clip showed the aircraft took off smoothly as onlookers applauded and then pierced the sky. The pilot later made a few passes over the airfield before landing. The clip showed a chase plane flying behind.

The news has generated blanket coverage on all major news portals including sina.com.cn, sohu.com and 163.com.

The website of the official Xinhua News Agency also put a combination of photos taken by netizens, who allegedly witnessed the test flight from afar, on its front page, headlining the "successful" flight in a photo slideshow.

Pictures of the aircraft in flight and on the ground surrounded by men in civilian clothes and army overcoats were previously posted on Chinese military websites.

After the maiden appearance of the J-10 fighter aircraft on China Central Television on Dec 29, 2006, the focus of attention for China's aviation enthusiasts and Western military analysts turned to the development of China's fourth generation jet fighter that supposedly boasts stealth technology, supercruise performance and superb maneuverability.

According to earlier reports by Western media, the J-20 is one of the stealth fighter programs launched in the late 1990s.

Two prototypes had been built as of the end of 2010, the US-based Aviation Week reported.

In late December, a host of photographs were posted online by Chinese netizens, apparently showing people checking a J-20 prototype at an unnamed airfield allegedly located in Chengdu. The Chinese captions for some other photos suggested the prototype was undergoing high-speed taxiing tests on a runway.

Shortly after, aviation enthusiasts across China began swarming to Chengdu. Some of them waited continuously outside the unidentified facility for a rare opportunity to witness the jet fighter.

A low-quality video clip recording the taxiing process of a J-20 prototype was later put online.

Despite the apparent appearance of the J-20 much earlier than many foreign military analysts had expected, some Western aviation experts argued that their Chinese counterparts still faced obstacles, the most immediate being the lack of a reliable domestically developed engine.

On Jan 6, just days ahead of the test flight, China's Central Military Commission awarded a first-class merit to Gan Xiaohua, an aircraft engine expert from a PLA Air Force equipment research institute, according to the Ministry of National Defense.

Many analysts and Chinese netizens regarded the award as a positive sign that implied the country had achieved a remarkable advance in the aircraft engine field.

The test flight was hailed by many netizens as a huge success for the country's national defense technology industry.

"I could hardly hold my tears on hearing this news, and I do feel really proud for the achievement our scientists and servicemen have made," a netizen, who goes under the name of SuperFighter, said in a comment on sina.com.cn.

General He Weirong, deputy commander of the PLA Air Force, said in November 2009 that he expected the J-20 to be operational in 2017-2019.

Cheng Guangjin and Reuters contributed to this story.

[SaiK]

so, beg, borrow or steal, and they have done it? indigenous stealth with indigenous engine and equipments. 100% made in china. now that is going to be another ddm pointer every time they condemn desi stuffs.

[hnair]

Another point for Doc-saar's piskoanalysis of Western chaps - When Iranian-birathers unveiled a "stealth plane" (not that recent flying boat sketch comedy, but that IJT lookalike with chiseled edges) that too looked "stealthy" (again no info about its engines, sensors or weapons), Western analysts pooh-poohed it. But when china flies an equivalent plane (with chalk marks for weapons doors and a silvery prophylactic over its musharraf), we are asked to "shiver me dhothies" in a meaningful way?

Of course IRNA sucks when it comes to allowing "enthusiasts" to hide behind a clump of tall grass near their airfields and also in not being near Oz. Plus their leader, though wearing western suit, looks scruffy and unshaven. Plus point is they seem to allow goats to graze on tall grasses near the runways

[heech]

Train to China !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntOxTlbM ... re=related

Uhm, that's in Japan.

[SaiK]

Marten, that is no discovery.. that is the way we were and are now. All that happens are based off reactionary policies right from terrorist strikes to nuclear devices including civilian policies. So, it is always good to have our neighbors in highly advanced state so that we can advance.

Where is sdre dhoti without chinpak? of course our dhoties never shiver on non-interesting advancements that is not democratically driven (eg: infrastructure etc).. but OT.

[DavidD]

Someone processed the underside pics of the J-20, you can see faint outlines of zigzag edges of the bomb bay door(seems clearest on the bottom left pic):

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9985 ... alysis.jpg

It seems like the finish on the J-20 is pretty good when looking at panel lines, it also helps to be painted with a pretty dark color, making panel lines almost impossible to tell when it's not being illuminated by say the sun. On the illuminated upper side, panel lines are more visible:

http://s007.radikal.ru/i301/1101/1f/610f9d031fdb.jpg

No David no. Those are not doors. They are panels that cover up places where doors might be placed in future.

Yeah, could be. But that does give an estimate of where the bomb bays would be placed. We can sort of estimate its size and how many missiles it can carry using that info too.

[wig]

Gates Tours Chinese Nuclear Base

(MUTIANYU, China) — China invited U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates inside its nuclear warfare headquarters on Wednesday, giving him a rare glimpse into control of weapons that could one day be launched at the United States.

The weapons command center in the Beijing suburb of Qinqhe is a site a few U.S. officials have visited previously, including former U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in 2005, so Gates was unlikely to learn much about China's capabilities that was not already known. Chinese military officials also routinely scrub all traces of truly sensitive materials before allowing Westerners inside such places, as Gates seemed to acknowledge Tuesday. Reporters were barred from the site.

China maintains a nuclear arsenal of about 200 warheads deliverable by land- and submarine-based missiles as well as bomber aircraft, according to the Federation of American Scientists.

China last week reaffirmed its commitment not to use nuclear weapons pre-emptively.

Foreign observers have suggested China might abandon its no first-use policy in the event of a major crisis over Taiwan or other crucial concerns, although ranking Chinese military officers and government-backed scholars repeatedly have denied such speculation.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 80,00.html

[shiv]

I would say that Chinese leaders are taking bribes from the US and have sold out Chinese security to the US. After all - imagine if Gates or a similar ranking US official toured an Indian nuclear installation we would know at once the extent to which the traitorous UPA have sold the nation out to the Americans.

[geeth]

Yeah, could be. But that does give an estimate of where the bomb bays would be placed. We can sort of estimate its size and how many missiles it can carry using that info too.

If those are the bomb bay doors, then won't it block the air intake duct?

[chand]

Yeah, could be. But that does give an estimate of where the bomb bays would be placed. We can sort of estimate its size and how many missiles it can carry using that info too.

If those are the bomb bay doors, then won't it block the air intake duct?

Don't think so, maybe you can check the F22 pic to get some sense.

[Dharma]

Would you buy a chinese car which is claimed to be as equivalent to ferrari just because it is made to look like one?..

Dunno about Ferrari but how about a good ole Rolls Royce



I can tell you the front part of this car looks every bit as good (can substitute menacing) as the asli maal.

Man If not for the logos,it can be sold as original royce in china..If ever rolls royce wanted to outsource some aspect of their car making with china ,Im sure that currently rolls royce would be cursing themselves with outsourcing their reputation with the order too:) as russians found out ..

@jimmy thanks

For better or worse,this chinese program must provide our government the jolt to kickstart our advanced indian stealth fighter and interceptor programs while possibly giving us more leverage to negotiate more advanced MRCA from the market with a greater role for India in asia..

As the english viceroy once told Indians are indian in colour and english in their own perception..we must break from this colonial mindset and stop looking for their approval while exerting our influence on weak neighbors who we tolerate too much as evident from incidents such as the recent firing incident that killed an unarmed indian fisherman by lankan navy,myanmar etc..

IMHO If force of perception is not utilized India will never gain the respect it deserves..Its time to pull our socks and focus our efforts towards mordernising our forces with indian capabilities and revise our stagnant foreign policy..

[Kanson]

^

[Sri]

Guys that is not a plane it's a glider. Timed to come out exactly when Gates was in China, to show China is equal equal. This is an old Chinese tactics, deployed from Jin Dynasty. "Can't make em love you??? Then make em fear you."

[Cain Marko]

I am really waiting for the reactions once the Chini Carriers come out. Won't be long now; buggers make copies mighty fast. More dhoti shivering is mandatory so as to get jingoes hardware quick enough!

CM.

[DavidD]

Guys that is not a plane it's a glider. Timed to come out exactly when Gates was in China, to show China is equal equal. This is an old Chinese tactics, deployed from Jin Dynasty. "Can't make em love you??? Then make em fear you."

Sounds more Machiavellian!

[Kanson]

Someone processed the underside pics of the J-20, you can see faint outlines of zigzag edges of the bomb bay door(seems clearest on the bottom left pic):

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9985 ... alysis.jpg

It seems like the finish on the J-20 is pretty good when looking at panel lines, it also helps to be painted with a pretty dark color, making panel lines almost impossible to tell when it's not being illuminated by say the sun. On the illuminated upper side, panel lines are more visible:

http://s007.radikal.ru/i301/1101/1f/610f9d031fdb.jpg

No David no. Those are not doors. They are panels that cover up places where doors might be placed in future.

Yeah, could be. But that does give an estimate of where the bomb bays would be placed. We can sort of estimate its size and how many missiles it can carry using that info too.

We really dont know it is actually a door! I could see only one faint white line(one line in that area) in this pic. We dont know is this particular to this pic or other pics features such line. We are not sure whether this one line represents the weapon bay door.

Now when the weapon bay door is still a question, you are moving this to discuss how many missiles/bombs it can carry and how big these missiles/bombs can be. Isn't bit preposterous?

Nothing against you david, i could see most of the discussions happening about Chinese weapons are like this - creating a halo effect with empty hands. Not sure whether such exercise creates "myth" or "mirth".

[bmallick]

Guys that is not a plane it's a glider. Timed to come out exactly when Gates was in China, to show China is equal equal. This is an old Chinese tactics, deployed from Jin Dynasty. "Can't make em love you??? Then make em fear you."

Sounds more Machiavellian!

Well DavidD, Machiavelli's thoughts/ideas though new for the western world....are infact very old and had already been dealt with in ancient eastern philosophy ...both Chinese & Indian. Hence, Machiavelli's thought actually sound more Chinese or Indian...

[Philip]

The deviousness of the PRC.If Gates or anyone truly believes that the complex he saw is THE one that is the key N-command centre of China then he is sadly mistaken.The PRC for decades from the days of Mao had numerous underground shelters,command centres,etc., that could reportedly house lakhs of people.China most probably has several command centres scattered across the country in key cities/military bases-safety in numbers in case any pre-emptive attempt is made to knock them out first.

However,as Raman has observed,the blistering speed with which events in China are taking place militarily,is outpacing the rest of the world.It is barely possible to keep up with developments let alone match China's rapid surge towards military modernisation and indigenous weapons production.Mush of China's modern arsenal of weaponry will go to our mortal enemy Pak.Therefore the GOI/MOD cannot but adopt a "war footing" approach to India's miliatry modernisation and expansion.The anguished pleas from the service chiefs from time to time about delays in critical decisionmaking,should become a thing of the past.A complete reassment of the threat scenario to India in the light of recent events and the adoption of a perspective plan for India's defence and security to meet them has to be completed as early as possible.It calls for the CCS,NSAB,etc.,to get their act cracking and also ensure some transparency in taking decisions to assure the populace that the GOI is serious about these most important matters.

[Sri]

^^^

I am not suggesting that we take Chinese threat lightly but, we have to understand that Chinese are masters in the art of brinkmanship. The whole thing was stage managed. Today's New York times has a bigger piece on this so called chinese stealth bomber then Gates discussion with Chinese Premier. More over Gate says that Premier wasn't aware of the test taking place today. Chinese wanted to show to American public tat they are equal to US in every way and they managed to pulled it off.

5th Gen Stealthy Chinni Hawai jahaaj is long way off....

[JTull]

Spying is a ‘reality’ in China, says EADS chief

Industrial espionage is a “reality” in China, says a leading French industrialist.

Louis Gallois, head of EADS, Europe’s aerospace and defence group, made the comments as Renault prepared to reveal specific allegations in the spy case that has led to the suspension of three executives at the French carmaker.

Answering questions at a new year’s address, Mr Gallois said Airbus, the EADS aircraft subsidiary, had exercised “prudence” when carrying out test flights in China.

Mr Gallois said he would like to meet Renault executives to discuss what had happened at the carmaker, which alleges that confidential information relating to its flagship electric vehicle programme has been leaked to outside interests.

“I . . . would be interested to have an exchange with them. It is a subject that concerns us.”

People close to Mr Gallois said he was not singling out China, but making the point that business intelligence is gathered in many countries.

Renault has not accused China, but French secret services last week highlighted growing suspicions of a link to at least one Chinese company.

The speculation threatens a diplomatic incident, with Beijing describing rumours as irresponsible. Christine Lagarde, French finance chief, and other ministers insist that France is not accusing any country.

State Grid Corporation, China’s largest electric power transmission and distribution company, said it was investigating media reports linking it to the Renault case. The state-owned group pointed to the foreign ministry’s denial on Tuesday that China was involved.

State Grid is intimately involved in China’s plans to develop electric vehicles. China, which is decades behind the west in internal combustion technology, hopes to leapfrog the gap by developing green, and especially electric, cars.

[NRao]

Gates Tours Chinese Nuclear Base

A base created JUST for such a visit and nothing else?

[Willy]

Pakistans operational requirements (according to many Pakistany posters including knowledgeble ones in various fora) require them to have a smaller single engined fighter. I don't think the J 20 fits that profile, I do believe that the Chinese will develop a smaller single engined fifth gen for the Pakis.

NO NO NO. U got that all wrongggggggg. The aircraft will be fully designed by brilliant Pakistani scientist. Dont u know ? This is a JV between Pakistan and China with Pakistan doing most of the design and development.

[shiv]

http://i52.tinypic.com/ru4n6p.jpg

The J-20 has huge canards and a relatively small wing. I suspect it's meant to be maneuverable but its landing speeds may be high and am not sure about take off/landing performance from high altitude airfields.

I think it is being designed as a counter to US air power - as a long range interceptor/air superiority fighter and not as a primary attack aircraft. This is my guess. Let's see how my guess pans out.

[manum]

they have shown what they are capable of...and how fast they can pull things up...
so lets start fire fighting, than still telling the smoke is not coming from fire...stop being skeptical anymore, sooner than later, they'll achieve what they are supposed to achieve...

Agreed

We must put our AMCA on fast track...

Agreed

But what is the connection between the two statements?

connection is "bin bhay hoye na preeti" i.e."without fear there is no affection"...and respect only comes from capability than quantity...if we have our capability to make AMCA....and have it, why would anyone would dare to go to war with us...even a limited one...
and symbolically it does wonders...just like J20 (there is lots of speculations of fakism, but I think Chinese are as talented and hard working as Indians, though they are more streamlined for good and bad), it simply reorders all the calculations...

Till we borrow we won't command the real respect...LCA is just the start...I hope dhoti shivers, and funds flow...

[shiv]

connection is "bin bhay hoye na preeti" i.e."without fear there is no affection"...and respect only comes from capability than quantity...if we have our capability to make AMCA....and have it, why would anyone would dare to go to war with us...even a limited one...

I think you missed my point.

What is the connection between J-20 and AMCA? How would AMCA cause fear and respect? Why not more nuclear weapons? How would the AMCA specifically create increased security after the J-20 has flown? How would the AMCA counter the J-20 and cause "bhay"?

I ask these questions seriously because I am unable to see any logical reason why AMCA should do anything to act as counter to the J-20. Furthermore, call me stupid - but I am unable to see what threat the J-20 is likely to pose and my personal feeling is that no sudden reactive measure is going to make any difference if we have not already been cognizant of regional threats.

What is there to be afraid of regarding the J-20 that was not there last week?

[hnair]

^^^ do not forget silvery foil vests for the guards

Gates Tours Chinese Nuclear Base

A base created JUST for such a visit and nothing else?

What would be funny is if Gates felt "a strange familiarity" on the layout and consoles, when inside the facility

[Hiten]

rumor has it that the J-20 flight was deliberately brought into the spotlight to distract public attention from the news of the existence of a Chines variant of the X-37, that the Chinese censors are deleting with greater urgency

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/htm ... 00682.html

[manum]

connection is "bin bhay hoye na preeti" i.e."without fear there is no affection"...and respect only comes from capability than quantity...if we have our capability to make AMCA....and have it, why would anyone would dare to go to war with us...even a limited one...

I think you missed my point.

I agree with you...with its pure competitiveness out of me...J20 is no threat that I said earlier too...but then we are tangled in this game of superiority...China is something we look up to in a way...its an example for us for its good things it has achieved (please don't kill me).
Nukes are for weak and irresponsible nations now...or they are for extraterrestrial superman threats...I don't think India can ever use nuke, its impossible, till we are attacked by it, we can never ever cause such unnecessary loss of life...

AMCA is just a showcase of technology, so that our shadow gets larger than us...rest who knows what china is cooking of what...J20 calls for AMCA...we are the only nation who seem 2 most near it after russia and china...Japs are 6th gen guys...given F22 shelved...

[svinayak]

^^^ do not forget silvery foil vests for the guards

Gates Tours Chinese Nuclear Base
A base created JUST for such a visit and nothing else?

What would be funny is if Gates felt "a strange familiarity" on the layout and consoles, when inside the facility

The base was built using US grant and knowhow.

[srai]

Looking at the J-20 design, it is clearly derived from the MiG-1.44 MFI (which flew in 2001) but with reshaping of the front to be more of a F-22/35 design (nose, cockpit, inlets) as well as other VLO enhancements.

MiG-1.44 MFI


Maybe the Chinese bought the MiG-1.44 design and engineers from the cash-strapped MiG after the program was cancelled ...


J-20

[D Roy]

from the news of the existence of a Chines variant of the X-37, that the Chinese censors are deleting with greater urgency

that's hardly news. The shenlong spaceplane project has been underway for sometime under 863 and 921. Read the following for greater detail.

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/ ... detail.asp


However, if the "censors" were indeed pulling pictures from the net then Chicom is planning to do another J-XX type "reveal'.

Expect Chicom drones crooning it up for the dhoti shivering crowd with first grainy pictures and cell phone vids by orgasmic chicom soldiers on leave with their girlfriends.

[Samay]

But finally they came with something they can claim as thier own ,.
We cant claim Pakfa-fgfa as our own , neither we could rely totally on russians . If a design existed in cash strapped russia ,then it was available for all buyers including India .
What western experts are worried about is the quick reaction from the chinese . , be it producing a low quality fgfa or a cheap copy of anyything ..
Industrial espionage is at its peak in china, much the same as it was in the soviet union of 1950s . So the tide is about to turn in their favour , as history suggests that reverse engineering bears quicker results than self obfuscation of Indigenous claims