J&K News and Discussion-2011

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 16 Nov 2011 16:45

^ Acharyaji, KM's are more wahabised and fundamentalists than their parents.I doubt if in next 100 Years we would be able to bring them back into Indic frame of existance.
The risk is that we will be fighting this battle for next 100 years in the hope of this chimera. Sorry to say but nothing less than tactics of Islamic kings is going to bring them back.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 16 Nov 2011 16:48

chetak wrote:
Pratyush wrote:MKB,

Under any nationalist establishment would have to loose his pension for writing the way he is writing. But under this dispensation where treason is the fashion. He gets away with it.

While the patriots get attacked in the middle of the night and arrested preemptively.
This guy is being herded and encouraged.

There has to be a payoff and it's somewhere abroad in terms of visa, cushy job, green card, citizenship, college scholarship for some one such bandicoots are always interested in.

there will always be traitors but the question is ,How much weight do such traitors carry in decision making or influential circles. Otherwise he too can be a fool on the lines of ARoy who maybe darling of liberal and Paki media but carries as much worth as turd.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Nov 2011 18:39

VikasRaina wrote:^ Acharyaji, KM's are more wahabised and fundamentalists than their parents.I doubt if in next 100 Years we would be able to bring them back into Indic frame of existance.
The risk is that we will be fighting this battle for next 100 years in the hope of this chimera. Sorry to say but nothing less than tactics of Islamic kings is going to bring them back.

the dissolution of pakistan will happen way before then - i'd like to see which way the valley wahabbis go in that case...

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 16 Nov 2011 19:30

^I hope we don't end up parenting the Paki scum once the ship starts to sink. With current Govt in power, I won't hold my breath.
Let's see how the cookie crumbles.

skher · Post by **skher** » 17 Nov 2011 00:08

Lalmohan wrote: the dissolution of pakistan will happen way before then - i'd like to see which way the valley wahabbis go in that case...

Valley Wahhabis will go to Saudi Arabia then.Free education and reward for membership in same religious club.All other competing school of thoughts will die a natural death - with Iran as sole challenger.

VikasRaina wrote:^I hope we don't end up parenting the Paki scum once the ship starts to sink. With current Govt in power, I won't hold my breath.
Let's see how the cookie crumbles.

Sadly, parent we shall, we can't resist being big brother in SAARC.India unilaterally continues to endorse MFN on Pakistan.So,most appropriate to prepare in order to make the best of the situation and resolve your own problems like J&K; port access Af-Pak(Baluch independence?), the right kind of Muslimhood in South Asia, etc.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Nov 2011 23:00

'Omar is taking a risk, but it should be taken'
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 111117.htm

G K Pillai, does a bit of bad mouthing of Army, but says that AFSPA should stay and disturbed areas act should be lifted, and the state govt can lift it.

I cant make up my mind whether he is throwing the gauntlet back at Omar, or just being a faithful side kick jerk of Shri Shri Hon Home minister Chidambaram.

Some one help me understand please -- I am lost, BK is singing peace tunes with Pakis, G K Pillai is bad mouthing the IA -- what the F is happening to the country folks.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Nov 2011 00:13

VikasRaina wrote:^I hope we don't end up parenting the Paki scum once the ship starts to sink. With current Govt in power, I won't hold my breath.
Let's see how the cookie crumbles.

Hell no. We should create civilian armies for the border areas.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Nov 2011 01:55

Sanku, Its a picture back to 96-98 days.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 18 Nov 2011 02:03

Former Home Sec. GK Pillai does nt have the heavy weight on his head any more.

He tried to bulldoze his way in Manipur. He made a mistake of lifting AFSPA from Imphal Valley and it came back to bite everyone. Imphal Valley is now the safe terrain of 20-30 groups, even while the Hill areas are burning with Mizo and Naga blockades. You can see his talk at IDSA where he tried to explain away the mistake, but did nt win me over too much.

GK Pillai does have a point though, status quo is happy and safe for everyone including the Army. Noone can say that handing back the Kangla fort from Assam Rifles was a mistake. Noone can say that the Army does nt/did nt own land in the city center in Srinagar/Kohima. These are facts. So while AFSPA lifting makes Army too pessimistic of the consequences, the civil society of which GK Pillai is becoming increasingly a part is too optimistic. Reality is somewhere in between. The Army is looking at it from the Amarnath angle, while the state govt is looking at it from an elections angle. Further, the case of Omar Abdullah is pretty much caught between both sides. In theory, he can lift the AFSPA on his own because it is the prerogative of the state government, but in practice, he cant. So dissing at him and asking him to do stuff unilaterally like GK Pillai advises is bs.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 18 Nov 2011 07:16

Great article. Read in full.

Playing a dangerous game - Madhu Purnima Kishwar

The Indian army will happily quit Kashmir if the political establishments in Delhi and Srinagar are convinced that its services are not needed. All they have to do is to take a considered decision through due process instead of subjecting the army to needless public humiliation and controversy.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 18 Nov 2011 08:13

Stan_Savljevic wrote:GK Pillai does have a point though, status quo is happy and safe for everyone including the Army. Noone can say that handing back the Kangla fort from Assam Rifles was a mistake. Noone can say that the Army does nt/did nt own land in the city center in Srinagar/Kohima. These are facts. So while AFSPA lifting makes Army too pessimistic of the consequences, the civil society of which GK Pillai is becoming increasingly a part is too optimistic. Reality is somewhere in between. The Army is looking at it from the Amarnath angle, while the state govt is looking at it from an elections angle. Further, the case of Omar Abdullah is pretty much caught between both sides. In theory, he can lift the AFSPA on his own because it is the prerogative of the state government, but in practice, he cant. So dissing at him and asking him to do stuff unilaterally like GK Pillai advises is bs.

What is with this land business? So the Army wants to continue with the AFSPA so that it can continue to hold land and maybe (wink wink, nudge nudge) make some underhand profit from it. Except the uniforms don't actually hold the land. The land is managed by the DGDE which is, surprise surprise, all babus. Maybe it's all that talked about Army luxury. Except there certainly isn't anything luxurious about Army accommodation there and it's basically used for troop housing. So maybe a compulsive need to hold land for it's own sake.

We're really down to dastardly ******** in the Army wanting to keep the AFSPA so that they can (unlike politicos like the Hon. K. N. Nehru) pay for and acquire land for either babus to exploit or for some complicated reason that comes down to a version of compulsive hoarding. Is the dizziness from that train of thought supposed to substitute for logic?

Actually the state govt. could unilaterally lift the Disturbed areas Act. That automatically means AFSPA can't apply. That of course means it becomes a State Govt. problem and they can't ask the Army to come bail them out. Or rather they can ask but the Army will refuse. Why should the Army operate without legal protection and be subject to local laws when the Army is in fact being called in because local law and order has completely collapsed?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Nov 2011 11:19

I wonder why involve Army in all this debate. Let them remove AFSPA and promise not to call back army in 2 years when OA and HM and others would be running like headless chickens with tails in their legs. It is not as if Army is enjoying life is J&K. They are losing their brave boys everyday.

Oh and while we are at removing protection, BTW would OA tell us what happened to the middleman who was killed in CM's residence ?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 18 Nov 2011 12:44

GK Pillai speaks like only a ex-babu can. Lets do this or that and if shit hits the fan, transfer the blame to others.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 18 Nov 2011 14:31

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 775667.cms

AFSPA debate: Disarming the state
Maj Gen Dr G D Bakshi | Nov 18, 2011, 05.00AM IST

NEW DELHI: The AFSPA debate in this country has recently been ramped up by many decibels.

There appears to be a concerted campaign on the part of some foreign-funded NGOs to demonize the Army and delegitimize its Counter Insurgency (CI) and Counter Terrorist (CT) operations.

It must be remembered that the Army is the instrument of last resort of the state and it has successfully tamed insurgencies in the northeast and vicious terrorist movements in Punjab and Jammu & Kashmir. It is brought in only once the local police and Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs) have failed to control the situation. Its operations have to be within a legal framework, which sets the rules of engagement, and also provides basic protection from prosecution (as available to the police under Section 45 and 197 of the CrPC) for personnel acting in good faith. This is precisely what the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act (AFSPA) does and hence is a critical enabling legislation. It was enacted in September 1958 and has stood the test of time in its operations over the last six decades.

There is a concerted campaign that seeks to label this act as draconian. In reality, it contains the bare minimal powers essential to deal with highly militarized and well-armed terrorists and insurgent groups, with extensive foreign support and sanctuaries. The scale of militarization of the current internal conflicts is not generally understood. In J&K alone, the Indian Army has since 1990, recovered over 80,000 AK series rifles; over 1,300 machine guns; over 2,000 rocket launchers; some 63,000 hand grenades and 7 million rounds of ammunition.

This is no peaceful civil protest - it has turned J&K into a virtual war zone. Few people are aware that since 1990, the Indian Army has lost 5,108 officers, JCOs and jawans fighting Pakistan's proxy war. The Army conducted concerted operations and eliminated over 20,000 terrorists, a large proportion of whom were foreign terrorists. The constitutional validity of this act was challenged in the Naga Peoples Movement for Human Rights versus Union of India (UOI) case. A five-judge constitutional bench of the Supreme Court of India upheld the validity of the act.

In fact, having considered the real circumstances under which the armed forces have to act, the honourable court extended the scope of the powers vested under Section 4 and 6 of the AFSPA and added the power to interrogate a person arrested and retain the weapons seized. The Supreme Court, thus, did not find the powers excessive but short of what was really needed. The SC is the most respected institution in this country and has upheld the need and validity of this law. Far from being draconian, AFSPA is the bare minimum warranted in view of threats faced by the security forces.

The Supreme Court's appraisal was realistic and took note of the ground realities. It is a great pity that some foreign-funded NGOs have brazenly put themselves above the Supreme Court of the land; in demonizing the Army, they are also trying to discredit this magnificent institution in which the nation reposes so much faith.

There is a concerted campaign to question the validity of this act and thereby delegitimize the operations of the Army. The Indian scene cannot be seen in isolation from the rest of the world.

After 9/11, the US and its allies have waged a war against terror. There are 13 International Counter Terrorism Conventions in force, ranging from hijacking, piracy and intelligence sharing. The UN Security Council resolutions have called for legislative reforms by countries to combat terror. These are resolutions that are binding on member states.

In response, democratic countries like the USA, UK and European Union states have enacted stringent anti-terror laws to include preventive detention, control orders and warrantless searches. After 9/11, these laws were made even more stringent and included provisions to track funds and tap phones. The US Patriot Law is far more stringent than the AFSPA. The result is for all to see, after 9/11, there has not been a second terrorist attack on the soil of continental USA. Unfortunately, in India, it has now become commonplace for 2-3000 citizens to perish each year at the hands of the terrorists and Maoist insurgents.

Very surprisingly, the liberal lobby in India has taken the very opposite approach. While there is an outcry about the human rights of the terrorists, the liberal lobby demonstrates a blase attitude towards the lives of their innocent victims. Kasab and Afzal Guru are the causes celebre of this bleeding-heart lobby.

This lobby even exerts pressure on the government to scrap the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention) Act (TADA) and the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA). The only act now remaining in the state's armoury is the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act of 1967 (which needs to be greatly strengthened).

Having got rid of TADA and POTA, the foreign-funded NGOs have set their sights on the AFSPA. There is a concerted assault upon the state's will to use legitimate force to protect its citizens from violent armed groups whose lethality is increasing by the day, in terms of the support they get from state actors like Pakistan and China.

World over, the approach of nations in tackling terrorism and insurgency is akin to the one followed by our own government. To that extent, it was incorrect on the part of Omar Abdullah (CM of J&K) to ignore the written advice of his military commanders. The entire Pakistani terror infrastructure is intact and thriving. There are some 2,000-2,500 terrorists in training camps. Some 700-850 are on the launching pads and hold camps near the Line of Control (LoC). Around 230 terrorists made 35 attempts to infiltrate this year. Nearly 50 terrorists have been killed in 2010 so far, 19 in the last two months alone.

The situation is clearly not conducive to premature declaration of victory and we need to guard against any sudden deterioration.

The Americans are withdrawing from Afghanistan in 2014. In 1989, once the Soviets left Afghanistan, a massive number of out-of-job HUA (Harkat-ul-Ansar) and HUJI (Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami) terrorists had been diverted to J&K and all terrorist training camps had shifted from PoK to the AfPak border region. Will history repeat itself after 2014? It is highly premature to lower our guard.

Partial removal of AFSPA from selected districts only creates sanctuaries, which the terrorists exploit to the hilt to rest, regroup and strike again. The CM has stated that the Army has not operated in Srinagar and Budgam for over three years. This is incorrect. Each morning the Army and eight companies of the CRPF sanitize the strategic road through the city for our logistic convoys to Kargil and Ladakh for the critical winter-stocking tasks.

Not only the road, an area of nearly 3 sq km on either side has to be sanitized. The airfield in Srinagar is a critical target and a 2km cone on either end has to be sanitized to ensure that no SAMs or RPGs are fired at the aircraft.

Srinagar is the pivot of all political activity in J&K. All the terrorist command-and-control and financial (hawala) networks operate from here. Most intelligence, even about LoC crossings, is gathered in these urban centres. Premature removal of the act from these areas would be highly counterproductive. Once removed, AFSPA cannot, in practice, be reimposed in a hurry.

In a quiet summer, the state government should have consolidated its position on governance and delivery front. Unfortunately, the hunt for populist gimmicks has prompted the beleaguered state politicians to target the Army in a most irresponsible manner. They have tried to manufacture causes for the separatists to exploit. It is a tribute to the tenacity of our Army that terrorism has been so drastically curtailed in J&K. We have won all the battles on the ground. We should not lose the war by self-inflicted goals and premature declarations of complete victory.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 18 Nov 2011 21:40

Centre can use SPOs anywhere except Chhattisgarh

In a major relief to Centre and states, the Supreme Court today clarified that they were free to use the services of Special Police Officers(SPOs) in fighting insurgent groups in the country, except in the State of Chattisgarh.

So SPOs are fine in J&K too.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Nov 2011 21:59

Maj Gen Dr G D Bakshi ki Jai.

Hey Hey Ho, Omar Abdullah and MMS have got to go!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Nov 2011 22:12

Need to think if the AFSPA removal is coming from US thinktanks.

The logic is like this:
-Removal of AFPSA enables the TSP jihadis to get defacto control of Kashmir valley and that could be a defacto way of appeasing the TSPA monster to reduce the pressure on US troops in Afghanistan.
- OA and his ilk will have nominal (dejure) control of the valley. So UPA can claim they did not dilute Lok Sabha resolution on Kashmir.

For all practical purposes Kashmir valley will be with the TSP based terrorists with immunity from Indian Army.

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 18 Nov 2011 23:09

ramana wrote:Need to think if the AFSPA removal is coming from US thinktanks.

The logic is like this:
-Removal of AFPSA enables the TSP jihadis to get defacto control of Kashmir valley and that could be a defacto way of appeasing the TSPA monster to reduce the pressure on US troops in Afghanistan.
- OA and his ilk will have nominal (dejure) control of the valley. So UPA can claim they did not dilute Lok Sabha resolution on Kashmir.

For all practical purposes Kashmir valley will be with the TSP based terrorists with immunity from Indian Army.

Ramana,

not sure if this works out. Removing of AFSPA from Kashmir is the brainchild of one man only, Omar. He has been reiterating his position as not taking no for an answer and now its a battle of ego and political gains. Mixed signals are being given by Delhi on agreeing to principle and if a compromised solution can be attained or not. If it was US all the way, all the central leadership would stand by in attention to implement it or hide it completely without any noise. But removal of AFSPA will be a blunder if not properly planned and now is definitely not the correct time for it.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Nov 2011 07:22

Centre, Jammu and Kashmir to prepare new draft of AFSPA

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 19 Nov 2011 16:27

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 640084.ece

Love meets peace in Paradise(Rajeev Sreenivasan)

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Nov 2011 22:03

ramana wrote:Need to think if the AFSPA removal is coming from US thinktanks.

The logic is like this:
-Removal of AFPSA enables the TSP jihadis to get defacto control of Kashmir valley and that could be a defacto way of appeasing the TSPA monster to reduce the pressure on US troops in Afghanistan.
- OA and his ilk will have nominal (dejure) control of the valley. So UPA can claim they did not dilute Lok Sabha resolution on Kashmir.

For all practical purposes Kashmir valley will be with the TSP based terrorists with immunity from Indian Army.

Excellent points. Everybody gains except India. First, I would argue that psychologically, the valley KMs are already with TSP. Also, with LeT in full force in the valley post AFSPA, this will only embolden ISI-inspired hartals and other "peaceful" stone-throwing circus to come out in full swing, further forcing a spineless Indian govt to looses its last grips.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Nov 2011 23:03

ManishH wrote:Centre can use SPOs anywhere except Chhattisgarh

In a major relief to Centre and states, the Supreme Court today clarified that they were free to use the services of Special Police Officers(SPOs) in fighting insurgent groups in the country, except in the State of Chattisgarh.
So SPOs are fine in J&K too.

What sort of logic is this, what is good for the goose is good for the gander

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 20 Nov 2011 07:10

Pastor held in Valley over ‘forced conversions’

wig · Post by **wig** » 20 Nov 2011 10:12

a news report in the J&K press on the pastor against whom the Govt lodges FIR in "conversions" case

Srinagar, Nov 19 : To prevent worsening of law and order situation in the wake of blasphemous depictions of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) on social networking site Facebook and alleged conversion by Christian missionaries, the Government has lodged an FIR against incharge Churches in Kashmir, CM Khanna.

SSP Srinagar, Ashiq Bukhari said that FIR No 186 0f 2011 under Sections 153 A and 295 A has been registered against Khanna in police station Ram Munshi Bagh.

"Investigations into the reports of alleged conversion by Khanna are on and some arrests are expected soon," Bukhari said.

Sources said that Khanna will be arrested within a day or two. "Khanna has been accused of luring people to convert to Christianity against money. He is also accused of using blasphemous words," they alleged.

Minister for Law and Parliamentary Affairs Ali Mohammad Sagar said that Government will not allow any person or group to create disharmony. "J&K is known for communal harmony and co-existence of religion. Any person who will try to create hatred or ill will against any religion will not be spared, but will be dealt under law," he said.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Nov 2011 14:22

^^ No heart-rendering interviews with the family of the Pastor followed by a panel discussion on NDTV and from a few Christians randomly selected for a sound-byte about how freedom of speech is being violated and how being a minority is tough in J&K state??

Oh, wait...forgot that the state is ruled by a "secular" scion and so the above SOP applies only to fascist saffron ruled states.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Nov 2011 15:26

wig wrote:a news report in the J&K press on the pastor against whom the Govt lodges FIR in "conversions" case

Minister for Law and Parliamentary Affairs Ali Mohammad Sagar said that Government will not allow any person or group to create disharmony. "J&K is known for communal harmony and co-existence of religion. Any person who will try to create hatred or ill will against any religion will not be spared, but will be dealt under law," he said.
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

That's certainly one way of putting it!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 20 Nov 2011 15:38

sum wrote:^^ No heart-rendering interviews with the family of the Pastor followed by a panel discussion on NDTV and from a few Christians randomly selected for a sound-byte about how freedom of speech is being violated and how being a minority is tough in J&K state??

Oh, wait...forgot that the state is ruled by a "secular" scion and so the above SOP applies only to fascist saffron ruled states.

Either the media has ceased to be neutral( as against canons of journalism) or the Govt. is unsure about secular v/s secular equation when it comes to J&K.

A quote of Rabindranath Tagore:

Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Nov 2011 17:07

Indeed, now is the time to keep watch on how it is reported by the "mainstream" media in English - NDTV, IBN, Headline News, etc...

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 20 Nov 2011 19:17

rohitvats wrote:GK Pillai speaks like only a ex-babu can. Lets do this or that and if shit hits the fan, transfer the blame to others.

He speaks like an ex-babu in need of a favour from the ruling party. Governor of this state, Chairman of that commission, etc.

Many of these same politicians and babus salivate at the thought of kicking the army/navy/air force out of cantonments/bases where the army/navy/air force have been based for 60+ years and giving the land to their mafia friends in the construction industry.

Pillai has only exposed what a total waste of space he is by linking AFSPA with Badami Bagh in Srinagar.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 20 Nov 2011 19:25

CRamS wrote:
ramana wrote:Need to think if the AFSPA removal is coming from US thinktanks.

The logic is like this:
-Removal of AFPSA enables the TSP jihadis to get defacto control of Kashmir valley and that could be a defacto way of appeasing the TSPA monster to reduce the pressure on US troops in Afghanistan.
- OA and his ilk will have nominal (dejure) control of the valley. So UPA can claim they did not dilute Lok Sabha resolution on Kashmir.

For all practical purposes Kashmir valley will be with the TSP based terrorists with immunity from Indian Army.
Excellent points. Everybody gains except India. First, I would argue that psychologically, the valley KMs are already with TSP. Also, with LeT in full force in the valley post AFSPA, this will only embolden ISI-inspired hartals and other "peaceful" stone-throwing circus to come out in full swing, further forcing a spineless Indian govt to looses its last grips.

CRamS, the average person in the valley just wants a good life: jobs, affordable food, power, water, housing, education, healthcare, thriving tourism, etc. The average person is not an ideologue. The average person in the valley also knows that they have a much better future inside India than as a part of Pakistan. The average person in the valley is pro-Army and pro-India, as the Army is the main guarantor of freedom and democracy. It is their supposedly better educated "leaders" that are financially and ideologically corrupted and repeatedly let them down.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 20 Nov 2011 19:29

ramana wrote:Need to think if the AFSPA removal is coming from US thinktanks.

The logic is like this:
-Removal of AFPSA enables the TSP jihadis to get defacto control of Kashmir valley and that could be a defacto way of appeasing the TSPA monster to reduce the pressure on US troops in Afghanistan.
- OA and his ilk will have nominal (dejure) control of the valley. So UPA can claim they did not dilute Lok Sabha resolution on Kashmir.

For all practical purposes Kashmir valley will be with the TSP based terrorists with immunity from Indian Army.

Ramana,

Don't fear boss. There are enough true sons and daughters of India in key positions to make sure that Pakistan and its pigLeTs are not allowed to take root.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Nov 2011 19:47

Not exactly the topic of this thread, but when so called peaceful stone pelters were dealt with, they way should by Indian security forces in J&K, the entire western world, starting with Economist rag, ganged up on India. But just this past week, look at the ruthlessness with which US police cleaned up the occupy wall street protests, not a single voice of condemnation from any quarter, only praise for the police on US media. Wow, man, a superpower knows how to behave like one.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Nov 2011 01:14

eklavya wrote:

Ramana,

Don't fear boss. There are enough true sons and daughters of India in key positions to make sure that Pakistan and its pigLeTs are not allowed to take root.

This is not simple anymore. US has created lot of inlfuence inside Pak and its point person John Kerry the next person in the Cabinet may want to push it to create his legacy. He has been on this for more than 30 years.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Nov 2011 01:52

eklavya, One person from the state told us that when Partition happened "patha he nahin tha" to us. And he was running govt guest house in Shimla and had the dignitaries coming and going all thru the period.

So forewarned is forearmed.

BTW woh apke state ka buzurg hain.
Ek din hum bolenge.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 21 Nov 2011 02:34

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 21 Nov 2011 04:40

Acharya wrote:
eklavya wrote:

Ramana,

Don't fear boss. There are enough true sons and daughters of India in key positions to make sure that Pakistan and its pigLeTs are not allowed to take root.
This is not simple anymore. US has created lot of inlfuence inside Pak and its point person John Kerry the next person in the Cabinet may want to push it to create his legacy. He has been on this for more than 30 years.

Also need to explore the Abdullah family relationship with British intelligence. It may just be that at this point things are coming to head and sleeper groups are being activated

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 21 Nov 2011 07:05

Appeasement of Kashmiri muslims has produced only more demands and sense of entitlement. These traitors get more central aid per capita than any other state. If they want to live in the 6th century they should be given a one way ticket to the hell hole across the western border. There is not a single instance on this planet where muslims form a majority that non-muslims are not persecuted.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Nov 2011 08:02

abhishek_sharma wrote:Pastor held in Valley over ‘forced conversions’

But, his arrest is made on the proof of a 'grainy' mobile video clip of baptism. Where is the proof that he was fraudulently or forcibly converting these boys ? Come to TN and one will find scores of such baptism to converted people every single day. That is a normal activity like asking a new convert to Islam to day the Kalima.

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Nov 2011 09:45

vishvak wrote: Either the media has ceased to be neutral( as against canons of journalism) or the Govt. is unsure about secular v/s secular equation when it comes to J&K.

A quote of Rabindranath Tagore:
Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it.

Dont bother to wait for the answer since its pretty clear.

yesterday, there was (yet another) panel discussion on NDTV with Bukha-madam on how Malegaon blasts led to "innocent" IMs being rounded up and how it was heart-rendering etc. The bile madam was spewing was to be seen to be believed.

Finally, it became so much that the policeman in the panel, ex-commissioner, M.N.Singh, mentioned that this was becoming BS and all sorts of non-sense was being peddled in this discussion and gave couple of clarifications ( which he mentioned was being deliberately skewed by DDM( NDTV) and certain muslim orgs):

* The case where these guys got bail was for 2008 blasts case and they are still accused in 2006 blasts case
* They have only got bail and are not been acquitted.

Even Mahesh Jethmalani butted in and mentioned that Burkha was misleading people since she was pleading for compensation for these folks when they had not even been proven innocent at which madam promptly back-pedaled and denied having said that the bailed out folk were innocent!!!

Disgusting psy-ops at work. There is definitely not much hope with DDM!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Nov 2011 12:18

eklavya wrote:
CRamS, the average person in the valley just wants a good life: jobs, affordable food, power, water, housing, education, healthcare, thriving tourism, etc. The average person is not an ideologue. The average person in the valley also knows that they have a much better future inside India than as a part of Pakistan. The average person in the valley is pro-Army and pro-India, as the Army is the main guarantor of freedom and democracy. It is their supposedly better educated "leaders" that are financially and ideologically corrupted and repeatedly let them down.

I am sure that is the reason, why the valley spontaneously erupted in 89 with AK47 toting civilians shouting Hindustani Kutton wapis jao, wapis jao.

I am sure that is the reason why for the last 3 summers the innocent civilians have been busy scaring away the tourists by pelting stones and disrupting all economic activity.

The valley population needs to be beaten into shape and told in no uncertain terms, if they want to live peace fully, then they must learn to behave.