Libyan War

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Mar 2011 19:19

^^
Leftovers from lunch?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2011 20:01

this pic has been reported on. not clear if the goat was already dead from the fighting or they made a meal of it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2011 21:33

reports say Ajdabiya is in rebel hands finally and regime forces withdrew west to strongholds like sirte where people support them. for the rebels to relieve the siege of misrata seems like the road goes through many regime loyalist towns which will fight.

the action will shift to next town in the west now, a half of dozen before Sirte. they could use chankian tactics to bypass Sirte , using the parallel interior road and appear near Misratah. keep a holding force to block westward movement from Sirte, direct allied airstrikes and move to Misratah
http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/afric ... ad-map.gif
but I dont think so, looking at the enthusiastic chants of allahu akbar in the street fighting video, they will fight and liberate each and every town along the coast to keep their lines of resupply protected, good for a quick retreat if necessary

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2011 22:00

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Mar 2011 22:08

^^Is that rebel or loyalist? He has a medal hanging over his precious

Looks like a villian from a low-budget Tamil movie in the 80s.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2011 22:10

likely a plumber or painter who kitted himself up with any weapon we could get incl that flare pistol from a touristy antique shop. there are photo of rebels using rifles left behind by the afrika corps in the region, local gunsmiths must have perfected how to repair and make them.

this prison guard will surely need a goat a day to keep going...his uniform is splitting at the seams

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6485/800xxg.jpg

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 27 Mar 2011 02:27

So US took out Libyan radars using Thawk CM before any targeted attack by planes. Do we have active defense for such evantuality?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Mar 2011 05:24

rsingh wrote:So US took out Libyan radars using Thawk CM before any targeted attack by planes. Do we have active defense for such evantuality?

No

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2011 05:32

Akash?

saip · Post by **saip** » 27 Mar 2011 06:00

Does USA have?

veerav · Post by **veerav** » 27 Mar 2011 07:50

Looking at the way the Libyan air defences were neutralized, wondering how resistant Indian defences are against such an onslaught? How potent are the Chinese assets to instill similar impact on us? ALso, what would be the posture India should take if such situation is iminent?

niran · Post by **niran** » 27 Mar 2011 08:32

rsingh wrote:So US took out Libyan radars using Thawk CM before any targeted attack by planes. Do we have active defense for such evantuality?

defense does not mean acquiring Air defense systems India will have get aggressively defensive i.e. seek out and destroy before they fire them
unlike thumb twiddling trying to look menacing with shiny toys eyerakese and Libyans.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2011 08:49

indeed - offense in this case is the best defence. as discussed before, if we can put in place the systems to destroy 50% of anything hostile that intrudes to within 1500km from our shore (sub, ship, planes), there is very little means to conventionally target us in the "low/zero attrition to themselves" mode the "West" likes to indulge in. there is no public support in the west for a high attrition war against enemies that are not a existential threat for them.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2011 08:58

JSTARS and ELINT birds seem to be in action:

FMCNL New USAF Joint STARS Boeing E-8C is airborne as CYLON 37

FMC the Netherlands FMCNL USAF RC-135W Rivet Joint overhead Mediterranean Sea as KERMY 21 at FL270 for SIGINT

--
seems to me if someone can find a way to drive away or jam the E3, KC135/K10 and E8 type birds and their escorts, the battle is 25% won. few will come out to play without the support of these 3 platforms.

a long range "Awacs killer" like the mythical novator missile is not it. I am thinking more long term in these sense of a road mobile Shourya that takes its initial feed of height, bearing and speed of AWACS/E8 based on passive detection of them by ground based hidden stations to first determine their flight pattern, then shourya launches from 500km away, goes hypersonic in a flat semi-ballistic path @ around 200,000ft and finally release around 10 active-radar AAM type missiles in a single salvo over the predicted movement area to independently go active and hunt the big birds.....they would not need much propellent except for endgame manouver (being already at Mach5) so the radar can be powerful and warhead larger than usual.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2011 09:10

Multiple high bandwidth active radar satellites are needed for high situational aware with 5000km range. All targets identified and continuous scanning and positioning system, integrated with net-centric warfare database.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 Mar 2011 09:21

Singha wrote:indeed - offense in this case is the best defence. as discussed before, if we can put in place the systems to destroy 50% of anything hostile that intrudes to within 1500km from our shore (sub, ship, planes), there is very little means to conventionally target us in the "low/zero attrition to themselves" mode the "West" likes to indulge in. there is no public support in the west for a high attrition war against enemies that are not a existential threat for them.

I think Russia will not deliver on Brahmos air-launch as it will compromise US interests. I would suggest that using solid fuel one can get smaller, lighter, faster, and longer-range missile, without depending on Russians

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2011 12:45

scary pix from libya
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4995/800xui.jpg (bunch of merceneries captured)
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2964/800xn.jpg (a fan of Mad Max movies)
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2311/800xw.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2595/800xrl.jpg (mahdi here - got rid of his AK and took a 200 rd drum mag equipped "lewis" MG of WW1 vintage

)
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1461/800xx.jpg
mica missile storages http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1461/800xx.jpg
mirage2000D ground mechanic - hand selected by sarkozy no doubt! http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5143/x800z.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2964/800xn.jpg
kids of war http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1327/800xmw.jpg
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5913/54548735.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/599/99138509.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8229/15946228.jpg
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8439/43813345.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8673/94568300.jpg

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2011 18:52

MSNBC

RAS LANOUF, Libya — Libyan rebels have seized back a second key oil complex and are pushing west toward Tripoli, after international airstrikes that tipped the balance away from Moammar Gadhafi's military.

The rebels seized back the oil refinery of Ras Lanouf on Sunday after taking control of Brega, another oil complex on eastern Libya's coast.

Ras Lanouf and Brega were responsible for a large chunk of Libya's 1.5 million barrels of daily exports, which have all but stopped since the uprising that began Feb. 15 and was inspired by the toppling of governments in Tunisia and Egypt.

On the eastern approach of Ras Lanouf, airstrikes apparently hit three empty tank transporters and left two buildings that appeared to be sleeping quarters pockmarked with shrapnel.

On Saturday, a barrage of U.S.-led airstrikes opened the door for Libyan rebels to retake the eastern city of Ajdabiya, handing President Barack Obama a tangible example of progress as he defends the military action to war-weary Americans.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2011 19:27

^^^US led? I am sure Ombaba would not endorse that pov!!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2011 20:12

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2964/800xn.jpg

interesting pic!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2011 21:07

sounds like coalition is bringing in assets to support CAS all the way into tripoli

@scotiatide @NotPJORourke just had confirmation that 6 A-10s landed today at Aviano. The 2 AC-130s deployed to Sigonella.
ppage4 RT @cencio4: "Boar" definitively an 81FS A-10 callsign! #odysseydawn

--
81st fighter squadron based in spangdahlem (germany) operates the A-10. their co-located F-16CJ squadron is already flying out of aviano from day1.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2011 21:12

http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/03/27 ... ned-day-8/

daylight strikes by AC-130 already happened and A-10 likely from tomorrow.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Mar 2011 21:15

veerav wrote: what would be the posture India should take if such situation is iminent?

Supine? Genuflected?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Mar 2011 21:18

SaiK wrote:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2964/800xn.jpg
interesting pic!

Questions:
1) Do the French make their own steam catapults or it it of US origin?
2) if US - what is the nature of EULA if any?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2011 21:21

french purchased steam catapult and 4 x E2D AWACS for CDG from US. the french also own and operate the US made E-3 sentry. being 'core' NATO they have nothing to fear.

bare bone desert, no SAM or air cover, night vision equipped adversary.....the libyan armour and artillery will be sitting ducks to any sweep by A-10/AC-130...a few truck mounted HMGs firing away will not scare them off.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2011 22:41

We would need strategic alignment with NATO following the french model, and at the same time develop indigenous assets on a long term defence requirements.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 27 Mar 2011 23:47

By THawk-CM do you guys mean this micro UAV?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeywell_RQ-16_T-Hawk

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 27 Mar 2011 23:49

VikramS wrote:By THawk-CM do you guys mean this micro UAV?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeywell_RQ-16_T-Hawk

VikramSji,
i guess they meant the TomaHAWK Cruise Missile...

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 28 Mar 2011 00:38

niran wrote:
rsingh wrote:So US took out Libyan radars using Thawk CM before any targeted attack by planes. Do we have active defense for such evantuality?
defense does not mean acquiring Air defense systems India will have get aggressively defensive i.e. seek out and destroy before they fire them
unlike thumb twiddling trying to look menacing with shiny toys eyerakese and Libyans.

Ok Imagine this
US carrier is in International waters in Arabian sea. We know they are there but we do not do anything because it is not threat. Suddenly it launches CM at Indian Radars on west coast. I mean you can not seek and destroy if there is not threat. And after the CM attack it is too late.
If Shiv saar is right........such SURPRISE CM ATTACKS can cripple any Radar.........thus defense of country.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 28 Mar 2011 00:59

Guys

you are going off topic here

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Mar 2011 07:23

rsingh wrote:
Ok Imagine this
US carrier is in International waters in Arabian sea. We know they are there but we do not do anything because it is not threat. Suddenly it launches CM at Indian Radars on west coast. I mean you can not seek and destroy if there is not threat. And after the CM attack it is too late.
If Shiv saar is right........such SURPRISE CM ATTACKS can cripple any Radar.........thus defense of country.

As regards lessons to be drawn from the current Libyan war, I have made a number of points on the "Anticipating & countering future military threats/challenges" thread. Please see http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... &start=160 .

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2011 10:50

someone saw B1B's doing AAR over nova scotia enroute to mediterranean

http://forums.radioreference.com/atlant ... ia-17.html

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 28 Mar 2011 13:27

pranav, US never gets into fight with a N weapons state. this Libya No fly zone is nothing but another attempt to secure oil supplies.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2011 14:15

with rebels capturing two major oil terminals, Qatar has agreed to market and manage the finances of these two terminals presumably until the rebels can put up a Govt and bring things more under control. its quite a miracle if these terminals are fully operational at present amidst all the fighting.

looks like powers-that-be want war to end quickly not drag out like serbian bombing. hence AC130/B1/A10 called in to put pressure on libyan army with round the clock strikes on any exposed units. they might skip a more measured campaign in favour of rushing to attack tripoli.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 28 Mar 2011 16:50

manjgu wrote:pranav, US never gets into fight with a N weapons state. this Libya No fly zone is nothing but another attempt to secure oil supplies.

This is not specifically about any nation. It's more about analyzing the technologies being used in the Libya campaign and the possible countermeasures.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2011 17:24

day9 debrief
http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/03/28 ... ned-day-9/

FMCNL AUDIO: Mission completed! USAF Lancer B-1B bombers went into Libyan airspace this early morning at 01:15 UTC http://audioboo.fm/boos/314345
[you can hear recording of BONE 34 flight leader talking to Malta ATC]

[this is in Chad french airbase] liotier ACIG's Tom Cooper reports 4 Mirage 2000D + 1 extra C-135FR in N'Djamena. No word about it anywhere else.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2011 17:32

apparently the B1s flew out of their base in south dakota and must have flown back. another "global pawah sakinah" mission - 80 x 1000lb JDAMs are possible if given time to load or 100s of smaller bombs. I read somewhere to load all the bomb racks of a B1b with smaller bombs takes nearly a week (!!) and that makes it very hard to switch ordnance if the mission changes...vs say a F-16 or F-15 where you can swap out ordnance in an hour or two.

nothing like a B1 or B52 if your target are known and you need to go in and pound them in a single run.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2011 17:49

this is a Igla but the pakis have something similar for RBS70 - seen in aftermath of the atlantique incident at crash site.

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2964/800xn.jpg

RAF tornado spots a group of BM21s actually firing rockets and blasts one. a survivor runs away to the right after the blast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEIkG6WJ ... r_embedded

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 28 Mar 2011 20:36

Singha wrote: nothing like a B1 or B52 if your target are known and you need to go in and pound them in a single run.

Too bad India couldn't get the Tu-160s from the Ukraine or from Russia after the fall of the USSR. Even 4-5 of those birds would give India "massive" reach and a solid ALCM platform. As for the AC-130, the USAF apparently wanted to convert the C-27J into an AC-27J because it is much smaller but could carry the same punch with the exception of the howitzer (which is rarely used and pretty insane on the face of it!) .

I doubt the USAF is getting the B52s in on this Libya action, even a B52 can't be used indefinitely, its airframe will have to be retired sooner or later.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 28 Mar 2011 20:41

let us first build capability to counter the pakis and then the chinkis..and then maybe worry abt the french and then the americans.