News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

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Charlie
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Charlie »

Video: What brought down stealth 'copter?
A helicopter downed in the bin Laden raid was pushed to its limits, an expert says.
Footage of the wreckage of the stealth helicopter left behind at Osama bin Laden's compound by US forces has prompted conjecture that the aircraft is a secret, highly-modified version of the military's iconic Black Hawk.

The damaged helicopter, which commandos blew up at the scene, is possibly a HH-60G Pave Hawk modified to reduce rotor noise and undetectable by radar or infrared. The Pentagon has declined to comment.

The aircraft was one of two helicopters that transported the Navy SEALS who carried out the raid from Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan to the Abbottabad, Pakistan compound.

Al Jazeera speaks to Robert Densmore, a former US Naval Flight officer, about the vital role of the helicopters in the mission and what caused one of them to crash.

Source: Al Jazeera and agencies
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by SwamyG »

Pakistan Pays U.S. Lobbyists To Deny It Helped Osama Bin Laden
WASHINGTON (Reuters/Tim Reid) - Pakistan's Washington lobbyists have launched an intense campaign on Capitol Hill to counter accusations that Islamabad was complicit in giving refuge to Osama bin Laden.

Alarmed by lawmakers' demands to cut off billions of dollars of U.S. aid after bin Laden was found living in a Pakistani safe house for six years, President Asif Ali Zardari has ordered a full-court press to quell mounting accusations that it helped the al Qaeda leader avoid capture.

Mark Siegel, a partner in the Washington lobbying firm of Locke Lord Strategies -- which is paid $75,000 a month by the Pakistani government -- told Reuters on Thursday he had spoken twice to Zardari since U.S. special forces killed bin Laden on Sunday, and "countless" times to the Pakistani ambassador in Washington.

"They are certainly concerned," Siegel said, adding that suggestions the Pakistani government knew about bin Laden's whereabouts was nothing more than speculation.

Referring to a statement by President Barack Obama's counterterrorism adviser, John Brennan, that there must have been a support system for bin Laden inside Pakistan, Siegel said: "There is no proof that a support system was government-based."

There is much at stake for Pakistan as many lawmakers question how bin Laden could have lived in a large fortified compound close to a Pakistani military base for so long.

Some members of Congress are now demanding that nearly $3 billion in annual aid for Pakistan, included in Obama's 2012 budget, be blocked until the Zardari administration explains how bin Laden lived untouched just 30 miles outside Islamabad, the Pakistani capital. Pakistan has received over $20 billion in U.S. aid since the September 11, 2001, attacks.

Patrick Leahy, the Democratic chairman of the Senate subcommittee that allocates foreign aid, said on Thursday he wants a complete review of U.S. aid to Pakistan.

Leahy said he was certain that some Pakistani military and intelligence officials knew that bin Laden was hiding so close to Islamabad.

"It's impossible for them not to have some idea he was there," Leahy told Vermont Public Radio.

But Siegel, referring to claims by the Afghan government that Pakistan must have known bin Laden's whereabouts, said: "Must have known doesn't mean knew."

Siegel's firm was retained by the Zardari government in 2008 and has earned nearly $2 million in fees since then, according to Justice Department records. Siegel said his firm is paid $900,000 a year by Pakistan.

Since bin Laden's death, Siegel says he has been on Capitol Hill every day to promote Pakistan's position on the bin Laden killing, talking to congressmen, senators and their aides.
Last edited by SwamyG on 06 May 2011 04:16, edited 1 time in total.
CRamS
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by CRamS »

Not a bad analysis from a former intelligence official in India

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Beyond-th ... 93889.aspx

One part I have a slight disagreement with

We have also had enough of those military-manufactured myths that justify Pakistan's control over Afghanistan for 'strategic depth' against India. The US could also do well by discarding certain myths, especially its belief that it can do nothing in Afghanistan without Pakistan's help.
As fars as US is concerned, its not a myth. It knows fully well that it can kick TSP arse in a hearbeat and tell them to f%^ck if regarding this strategic depth crap. And if it is in US interest, it will say so in no uncertain terms and act accordinly. Problem is those pesky SDREs to east of TSP, the need to contain and bottle them and render them a so called "emerging superpower" of eunuchs that serve US interests. Recall Riedel chutiya's thesis that US economy could very well depend on 500 million Indian consumers, and in order to be useful consumers, India must give TSP whatever it wants lest TSP nuke India.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by RajeshA »

Prem wrote:
RajeshA wrote:[Prophet Mohammed is also called the SEAL of the Prophets!
Rajeshi Ji,
Pakistan is the SEAL of Terrorism with mindset SEALED in 6th century .
First OSama was taken out by SEALs and now OSama is devoured down by SEALS in Aryasamundra .
:lol:
Pakistan's SEAL, I mean so-virginity, has been broken time and again!
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by CRamS »

What bunch of filthy hypocritical scum TSPians are. They make a huge song and dance about KL having conditions as though they have a choice. They don't have the cojones to reject the aid. And now, even lobbying for it.
ramana
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

Was OBL running a call center or what? Why di dhe need so many computers andd USB drives? And did any of those killed look like computer coolies? No.

So whats the deal? Could it be a HUM/LeT repository?

A question for folks:

Was Daoud Gilani or that Tawahur Rana guy ever admit to being in Abbotabad in their Pak tourism?
RajeshA
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by RajeshA »

ramana wrote:Was OBL running a call center or what? Why di dhe need so many computers andd USB drives? And did any of those killed look like computer coolies? No.

So whats the deal? Could it be a HUM/LeT repository?

A question for folks:

Was Daoud Gilani or that Tawahur Rana guy ever admit to being in Abbotabad in their Pak tourism?
A very interesting observation! This compound could easily be the 'Tijori' of ISI (Upscale Terrorist Wing). If OBL was the most important human asset of Jihad, and he was present in the compound, then it could just as well be that the computers and disks were the most important digital assets of Jihad, and they too would be in the compound!

That digital data could contain the most sacred relics of ISI (Upscale Terrorist Wing)!
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by anjan »

rajithn wrote:
anjan wrote:Why the -1 for India? A preemptive dhoti soil on the hypothetical that the Pakis may (shiver) start something?
No, Anjan. Because we are going to be pushed to give up something. And MMS, in the interests of economy, is going to do it. Not Kashmir. But expect something to be given up on the lines of Sir Creek, Siachen or Cross border movement. And the Pakis are going to claim it is a victory for them.
I dont think they are in a position to needle another attack. That will only isolate them more. And right now their kammez's are too soiled for them to be thinking of this.
case in point: all the belligerence of Salman Bashir and Kayani towards India! If you listened to them, you would think India did an Abbotabad!!
If the Pakis don't have a pressure point why would the GoI give up anything. Sure, it's hard to know what MMS is upto. Some days he seems sane and some days not. Maybe he is in it for his "legacy" and dreams of pre-partition Punjab or maybe he knows something something I don't. Either way I believe there are patriots enough in our ranks of soldiers and babus to ensure not too much is given away.

As for Paki claims, on any given day the Pakistanis claim a hundred different positions. I think we should stop worrying about the Pakistanis "claiming" victory and start thinking about the actual implications of the actions.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Venkarl »

ramana wrote: Was Daoud Gilani or that Tawahur Rana guy ever admit to being in Abbotabad in their Pak tourism?
it could be possible that either of these pigs gave Yankees info about OBL's courier....if Let/HuM/AQ use the same courier...then Yankees have a treasure trove in their labs....

and someone here said....apart from OBL's body...a person was also taken under custody by Geronimo folks......

Pakis are boxing blindly in the dark....
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Paul »

Paul, Very perceptive insights. Sort of dhoka for election success
Hi Ramana, another incident is the way the Japanese hung their peace envoys to DC out to dry by staging Pearl Harbor while simultaneaously holding peace talks.

Even a blind man can see that the manufactured outrage over OBL hiding in Pakistan is easily manageable and meant to vent rage at a strawman.

There are two aspects to the unfolding situation that Pakistan is trying to master.

The target audience to be convinced of Pakistan did not know of the coming raid is the TTP.

OTOH the audience to be convinced that Pakistan did not know that OBL was procreating in Abbottabad is the gullible world audience.

If anyone can manage these two audiences on the opposite ends, it is the Pakistan army.


Meanwhile, in line with my thinking that this incident was staged to close this chapter of the great game and move to the next phase (Iran?)

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110506/j ... 946507.jsp



Saudi card in Osama kill
‘Advice’ turns Pakistan around
K.P. NAYAR

San Francisco, May 5: Saudi Arabia and Turkey separately played significant roles in persuading Pakistan to give up Osama bin Laden and facilitate his elimination by the US, according to pieces that are slowly fitting the puzzle of Sunday’s anti-terror operation in Abbottabad.

In limited, highly classified briefings for key Congressional leaders, the Obama administration has shared some of its assessments that the Saudis advised Pakistan that it was necessary to take the al Qaida bull by its horns as part of a bigger strategy to manage “the Arab Spring” which is threatening established governments from Oman to Morocco.

The briefings for key men on Capitol Hill dealing with intelligence, defence, foreign affairs and homeland security, which have begun in Washington, are not entirely designed to share highly sensitive information with those who are outside the operational perimeters of the successful plan to eliminate Osama.

They are aimed at building a case for continued American support for Islamabad in the US Congress, including military and financial assistance, on two grounds. One, that Pakistan has unhesitatingly co-operated in the operation to kill Osama. Two, Pakistan has a critical proxy role in managing problems in the strategically crucial Arab world.

It has become necessary to build such a case since clamour is growing in the US among the ill-informed and rabble-rousers that Pakistan must be held accountable for having enabled Osama to live in a “safe house” close to Abbottabad’s military facilities, according to aides of Senators and members of the House of Representatives who have attended some classified briefings.

The Saudis, the Turks and the Pakistanis have all concluded that President Barack Obama is most likely to be re-elected next year. That conclusion implies that a big investment in Obama is worth the effort.

Indeed, it would be even better if they can help him win re-election. The end of a decade-long hunt for Osama — in fact, a 15-year hunt, if Bill Clinton’s failed attempt to kill the Saudi terrorist is counted — with an order under Obama’s hand will be a highly favourable factor for the President in the re-election campaign which is getting well under way.

Obama will be beholden to the Saudis and the Pakistanis, and to a lesser extent to the Turks, for this huge political capital that they have enabled him to amass.

What the Saudis are seeking is to translate a broad convergence of their own survival instincts with US interests in an Arab world which is in ferment. That convergence cannot be achieved without a greater role for Pakistan in putting down the uprisings in countries like Bahrain and helping preserve the status quo in the Arab world, making way, perhaps, for nothing more than cosmetic changes.

It is well known that Pakistanis serving in Bahrain’s police brutally put down the recent Egypt-style Shia protests in the island kingdom. The forces sent in by Saudi Arabia to reinforce Bahrain’s security forces were also reportedly made up of significant numbers of Pakistanis.

As the Arab world gets into deeper ferment, Riyadh is counting on Pakistan — both Islamabad’s regular forces and Pakistanis already employed by security forces in every Gulf country — to provide the last stand for Arab rulers in case the democracy movement in West Asia gets “out of hand” as the Saudis see it.

It is a role that Pakistan has historically engaged in. During “Black September” in 1970, when Palestinians nearly brought down King Hussein’s monarchy in Jordan, it was a unit of the Pakistani army led by none other than the late Gen. Zia-ul Haq that brutally put down the revolt and preserved Hashemite rule.

Similarly, elite units of Pakistan’s army protected the Saudi royal family for decades because the Saudi rulers did not fully trust their own citizens or even those from other Arab countries.

By all accounts, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan’s chief of army staff, would not be averse to reinventing Pakistan’s role in global security affairs on these lines.

After all, that is how Pakistan has all along remained relevant to the world: in July 1971, Islamabad was the secret gateway for the then US national security adviser Henry Kissinger’s visit to China to open Sino-American relations. Pakistan’s involvement in Cento and Seato, the US-sponsored defence arrangements, predates such efforts to remain relevant.


But such a restructuring of the existing order in West and South Asia would not be possible without the acquiescence of Washington. Which was why the Saudis decided to lean on Pakistan to give up Osama.

Saudi Arabia has always been a factor in Pakistan’s domestic politics. No Pakistani leader, either from the military or from among civilians, can ignore Saudi “advice”, although Riyadh’s plea to spare Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s life was a rare instance when such advice was rejected by Gen. Zia.

In an understandable effort to publicly distance himself from the US operation to kill Osama, Kayani warned today that any repetition of such action, violating Pakistan’s sovereignty, would call for a review of military and intelligence co-operation with the US.

What is more interesting than Kayani’s bravado in issuing such a warning is the instant response to it from Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff. In a statement issued on behalf of Mullen, his spokesman said: “The small number of US military trainers in Pakistan are there at the invitation of the Pakistani government, and therefore, subject to that government’s prerogatives.”

More of such symphony in the US-Pakistan orchestra is to be expected in the coming days with the two sides disagreeing in public, even to the point of behaving like adversaries, for popular consumption but working together behind the scenes to advance their common interests in South and Central Asia and the Arab world

Last edited by Paul on 06 May 2011 03:50, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

Paul, KPN's article can be countered para by para. Its the usual everyone is chankian except they are Chunky Pandey allright.

i ignores the TTP and the inhouse jihadis in TSP who will tear up TSP.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Amber G. »

Paul
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Paul »

Ramana, IIRC KPN is in DC or other place...his articles are in line with what is going on DC, similar to IUCNA negotiations...same thing here. I have tried to cover TTP conundrum in my post, obviously TTP will more difficult audience to convince for PA.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

ramana wrote:Was OBL running a call center or what? Why did he need so many computers and USB drives? And did any of those killed look like computer coolies? No.

So whats the deal? Could it be a HUM/LeT repository?
...
If I were to guess, I'd say the plethora of USB drives in particular, are a feature of the AQ "business model".

Wannabe jihadis from around the world, cook-up terror plots, and put together what are essentially "sales pitches", packaged-up on USB drives. These are then passed by-hand to the guy who knows the guy who met the guy who is the guy who will hand it to the 'real guy' who knows who to give it to so that "the Sheikh" can review the proposed terror plot.

Remember, a key aspect of the "AQ signature" is "simultaneous attacks", often separated by great distance. This requires coordination.

If "the Sheikh" likes a number of the terror plots proposed on the USB drives, he will give his "blessing", and maybe even some money or other material support; perhaps collecting those "farewell messages", and he will set a date and time, so that all of the plots are hatched simultenously.

It's just a guess of mine, but I wouldn't be surprised if these wannabe jihadi "terrorist franchisees" are scrambling right now, in advance of their imminent arrests in the coming days and weeks. :mrgreen:



PS: That 'KPN' article above is absolute hogwash -- not worth my effort to counter -- utter rubbish.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Singha »

talk about a angel investor and startup mode. but hopefully it contains details of who is living normally in western world but funding jihad on the sly.
prithvi

Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by prithvi »

putnanja wrote:
prithvi wrote:Wolf Blitzer has just screwed Paki Ambassador to US Haqqani... ..in CNN
can you please provide a brief summary?

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video ... v.cnn.html

here is the interview
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »

Check what is happening in US domestic politics
Trump Craters
MAY 5 2011, 3:24 PM ET11

You had to see this coming. Enduring two weeks of excruciating humiliation has put a major dent in Donald Trump's "presidential campaign" (probably also his in ego). First, his base of support--birthers--has been cut in half following the release of Obama's birth certificate, per a new Washington Post/ABC poll. Last April, 20 percent of Americans thought Obama was born abroad; now the people who believe that--call them "after-birthers"--are down to 10 percent.
A couple weeks ago, Trump had stormed to the top of the GOP field. This morning, a Suffolk University poll of New Hampshire voters has him drawing a measly 8 percent. He's so toxic that the Indianapolis 500 has decided not to let him drive the pace car this year. But there has to be a silver lining. As several people have noted, Obama cut into Sunday night's episode of "Celebrity Apprentice" to announce that Osama bin Laden had been killed.
That drew the biggest TV audience ever for an Obama speech. So surely Trump, whose ratings have plummeted since during his campaign, got a nice little ratings spike as a result, right?
Wrong. I checked with the Nielsen folks. His ratings were flat.
So the target of the Osama publicity was Trump and his group of tea party folks. This group is also which may want to play with Pak lobby group. Keep watch
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

rajithn wrote: Its just that we are too passive and benign to do anything daring.
This is exactly what I am saying - but I am merely pointing out that this "we" being passive is true for a very large number of Indians in the media and among the lay public including BRF. Cursing the government for being that way ignores the fact that the people are that way. Cursing won't help make it better although it may make one feel better for having cursed. By all means curse the government - but recall that a mere change of people in government is not going to change a national characteristic any more than a change of Paki government changes Pakiness.

We are looking at national characteristics here and while you can find exceptions - those are exceptions.

To my mind the response that India could show towards Pakistan could be
1) Aggression
2) Supine-ness as strategy

India seems to have chosen being supine as a strategy. While there are many Indians who hate this the assessment that you made about Indians, which I agree with, overrides national decision making : "we are too passive and benign to do anything daring." This in fact then dictates the way others respond to us. This explains why Pakis thought Indians would tremble and run away at the sound of gunfire. This is what started the stereotyping of the HIndu s coward - from some anonymous Pakistani.

We know that is wrong. We know that the entire people are not "cowards" but we choose to believe that while we and some people we know are not cowards, some others - lefties, pinko liberals, WKK crowd, pseudo seculars etc lack courage. India has a huge population of "lefties, pinko liberals, WKK crowd, pseudo seculars" who do not believe that aggression is the answer and believe that supineness has its own benefits. Gandhigiri itself involves using supineness as strategy. That is why India behaves the way it does. If you do not like this crowd and you are Indian - you have only two options. One is to opt out and join some other brave country (Pakis did exactly that) . Or the other is to work with this crowd to see what can get you the result that is most satisfactory given the make-up of people. However the lack of aggressive policy will only be seen as defeat and cowardice.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Muppalla »

India had twice told US about Osama's likely presence close to Islamabad
It now turns out that Indian agencies had twice warned their US counterparts about the presence of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden in an urbanized and heavily populated area not very far from Islamabad – once in mid-2007 and again in early 2008 when they specifically mentioned his likely presence in a cantonment area. On both occasions, the Americans either did not take the Indian intelligence seriously or perhaps were too busy working on their own inputs about Osamas whereabouts.

The first time Indian security agencies gave this information to the US authorities was in mid-2007, soon after a Taliban meeting in Peshawar which was attended by Osamas No.2 Ayman al-Zawahiri. According to the information gathered by Indian intelligence operatives, this meeting was also attended by top leaders of Haqqani network and at least two ISI officials.

Days after the meeting, Zawahiri visited Islamabad as per the information available with Indian authorities and this formed the basis of Indias first input to the US about Osamas hideout. "The urgency with which Zawahiri visited Islamabad or the area in its vicinity suggested that he was there for some purpose. We told them about Zawahiri visiting Islamabad and we also told them that we believed Osama may not be hiding in caves but in a highly urbanized area somewhere near Islamabad. Of course, nobody had spotted him and it was a conclusion we drew on the basis of the information we got," said a top intelligence official involved in processing the information.

In the next six months, Indian operatives every now and then came up with information about movement of Osamas confidants in the region. The next definite input passed on to the US agencies by Indian officials was in early 2008 when there was specific mention made of his illness and his likely presence in a cantonment area. "This time we specifically mentioned about his presence in a cantonment area. It was because we had definite information that his movement was restricted owing to his illness and that it would have been impossible for him to go to an ordinary hospital. We told the Americans that only in a cantonment area could he be looked after by his ISI or other Pakistani benefactors," said the official.

While the US has officially maintained that Pakistani authorities were not informed about the operation till the American choppers left Pakistani airspace, India security officials take this with a pinch of salt. "The Americans might have that capability but we have no reason to rule out that the Pakistanis decided to turn him in because he was proving to be too much of a liability for them with no operational utility," an official said. This has also raised doubts about the whereabouts of Zawahiri, now widely regarded as al-Qaidas supreme leader. In the past, he has been reported to be hiding somewhere in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

I recall the media - both Western media and some Macaulayized Indians in the media being critical of Indians who celebrated after the 1998 tests. Indians (along with Pakis) were classified among the more lowly tribal people who were given to loud and vulgar "celebration" of a thing so horrific as a nuclear test. The dignified and civilzed people of the world, such as those populating the West would never behave in this crass fashion.

For such a civilized and dignified bunch of people - why did people in the US get on the streets, fire guns in the air and celebrate the death of one man? I have a feeling that Americans too wanted to see American actions work. The fact is the people of the US have been fed a continuous series of stories of how their actions lead to failure or defeat. Vietnam was lost. Unlike Pakis, America the nation is bold enough to admit that. US special ops have been disasters - allowing the British SAS to crow about that. The iran rescue was a failure Mogadishu was failure. The cold war was won - but he credit went off to some Talibs, and Pakistan took the credit in retrospect, The USA - like the Paki army in Kargil refused to take credit for that - but in the end suffered the consequences of that. Iraq was not a great success - an unpopular and costly war. The war in Afghanistan is dragging on and until now the US had little to show.

That is why this spectacularly successful special ops event stands out in stark contrast to all the aggressive actions that the US has taken over many decades. Aggression is one thing. Victory, or at least a satisfactory conclusion is a completely different thing. The overall "success rate" of all the US aggression has been low and the cost have been very high. The US - which came out as "the only superpower" in 1990 is now being spoken of as a superpower about to be overtaken in some areas. Naturally Americans are pleased about the success of this operation. Few successes can match this particular raid and this raid will go down in history among the most successful modern day "victories" of military action in the world alongside Entebbe, the 1967 war, and the the liberation of Bangladesh and perhaps the retaking of the Falklands. For the US it is a morale booster at a time when the US has had to rely on Paki like rhetoric to boast of its own strengths. The US has expended itself on Iraq and Afghanistan and now finds itself facing Pakistan, with not much strength or ersolve to do much about Pakistan. Or so it seemed.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by saip »

Has this story from BBC posted?

Looks like they have started damage control of the fair name paki army

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13296709
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Ambar »

Paul wrote:
Paul, Very perceptive insights. Sort of dhoka for election success
Hi Ramana, another incident is the way the Japanese hung their peace envoys to DC out to dry by staging Pearl Harbor while simultaneaously holding peace talks.

Even a blind man can see that the manufactured outrage over OBL hiding in Pakistan is easily manageable and meant to vent rage at a strawman.

There are two aspects to the unfolding situation that Pakistan is trying to master.

The target audience to be convinced of Pakistan did not know of the coming raid is the TTP.

OTOH the audience to be convinced that Pakistan did not know that OBL was procreating in Abbottabad is the gullible world audience.

If anyone can manage these two audiences on the opposite ends, it is the Pakistan army.


Meanwhile, in line with my thinking that this incident was staged to close this chapter of the great game and move to the next phase (Iran?)

Paul, we did talk about this possibility of Paki Army colluding (information wise and not operation wise) with US for eliminating OBL and then acting dumb to garner the sympathy of their populace who would pat Paki army for safegaurding their sheikh all these years. But multiple things don't add up to that equation :

1) Logistics be darned, they would have moved him to a non-military area before allowing the US to squash him. As perfidious as they are, i doubt it if Pakis enjoy getting battered by the world media and put their future west milking cows in jeopardy.

2) If US just did this to get Obama re-elected next year, what really stopped GW from ending his horrible presidency on a top note ? You think republicans would allow such a opportunity slip by ?

Did a senior ISI guy sell OBL's information to the yanks ? Possible. Is US allowing Pakis to play dumb so that Pakis would be spared from dozens of jumma mubaraks ? Possible. Beyond this, i disagree to the notion that ISI helped US whack Laden.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

On the lighter side..
received on email:
Sung to the tune of "April Fool Banaya"

Sabko fool banaya
To USko gussa aaya
Mera kya qasoor, zamaane ka qasoor
Jisne failure banaya
Received on SMS
Nobody is safe in Pakistan, not even Osama bin Laden
Everybody is safe in India, even Ajmal Kasab
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

ramana wrote:Was Daoud Gilani or that Tawahur Rana guy ever admit to being in Abbotabad in their Pak tourism?
ramana
Dont know about the Daoud Paki or Rana but after the 2005 earthquake, nearby areas were swarming with "Charity organization" JuD whose members went to PoK and distributed good/set up relief camps etc. They also had camps in Abbottabad. I am sure that the house was bought under this pretext and OBL was moved into this region during the free movement of the yahoos in the immediate aftermath of the quake. Expect news to come out that the house was owned by LeT.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by arun »

X Posted from the TSP thread.
arun wrote:
shiv wrote:{Snipped}.............. PAK PERFIDY WILL HAVE NO ENDURING IMPACT ON ITS TIES WITH US ............ {Snipped}

11.History is going to repeat itself now after the death of OBL at Abbotabad. One or two senior officers of the Army and the ISI will be identified by the US as responsible for the collusion. The US will ask for their heads. Pakistan will happily offer their heads.

12. The State-to-State relations will be back to their sickening normalcy. The pamperiong of Pakistan will resume. The exercise to feed and fatten the Pakistani Army and intelligence will resume.
The groundwork is being laid by the US for the rehabilitation of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Michele Flournoy, the top policy aide to US Defense Secretary Robert Gates chimes in:

Pentagon: No Firm Evidence of Pakistani Complicity
Yet more confirmation that B. Raman is indeed correct in pointing out that the US needs very little to convince itself that support for global Islamic Terrorism notwithstanding, there is an overwhelming need to reward the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

The immediate past, besides Michele Flournoys comment yesterday, clearly points in that direction. .

The McClathy wire service is reporting that even as the US was planning the Abbotabad raid to bag Osama Bin Laden, the Obama Administration provided certification to the US Congress that Pakistan had shown a "sustained commitment" to ending its support for Islamic militants thereby opening the flood gates for yet more hand outs .

Grid your loins for the Obama Administration’s version of the Nixon Administrations “Let’s not squeeze Yahya” policy:
U.S. Pakistan policy sets low bar for aid requirements

By JONATHAN S. LANDAY
McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON-In March, the Obama administration certified to Congress that Pakistan had shown a "sustained commitment" to ending its support for Islamic militants. Two days later, the top U.S. military officer accused Pakistan's premier spy agency of supporting Afghanistan's deadliest insurgent group.

At the same time, U.S. officials were in the final stages of planning the raid that killed Osama bin Laden on Monday, didn't know if Pakistani officials were helping to hide the al-Qaida leader in a military town near their capital.

Despite the contradictions, the certification was granted, removing a key hurdle for Congress to approve $1.5 billion in new U.S. military aid to Islamabad and showing yet again the lengths to which the Obama administration has bent over backward to keep its policy toward Pakistan on track. ………………………


Kansas City Star
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by wig »

interesting write up by tavleen singh -excerpts
I have asked about Osama’s whereabouts and always everyone convinced me that he was most certainly dead. They gave different reasons. Some said that the Generals who controlled Pakistan had no reason to keep him alive if they knew where he was. It would be more profitable, they said, for them to give him up to the Americans in exchange for more dollars and F-16s. Then there was the theory that if he was in Pakistan he was hiding in a cave in the wild and inaccessible mountains that divide Afghanistan from Pakistan. If he was there, my Pakistani friends pointed out, then he was outside the reach of the Pakistani army because the Pathan tribes who inhabit those parts are a law unto themselves.
Only one friend, who shall remain nameless, once said laughingly at a dinner party that Osama was in a heavily fortified safe house in a military cantonment. My friend had high connections in the Pakistani army and I wish I had listened more carefully.
and she seems to be against the ritual of sending dossiers

Instead of constantly whining about Pakistan’s reluctance to render unto us the men who have been responsible for terrorist acts in India we should build the capacity to go and get them ourselves. If we had gone after the hijackers of IC 814 and the criminals we released in Kandahar ten years ago there is every likelihood that 26/11 would never have happened. Every state has the right to defend itself in every way possible
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by anishns »

Something interesting happened today...

I went with an American friend of mine to buy a jacket. Me being Indian, my friend wanted me to haggle on the price as we are quite adept in that art, especially since it was a shop in a predominantly "South Asian" area of Montreal.

Well, the shop owner turned out to be an Afghan dude....and when he found out that I was Indian he became genuinely warm towards me. He had reserved the choicest gaalis for the Pakis. Saying that those b@$t@rds, not only have they created problems in our part of the world but the whole world in general and its good that the entire humanity are experiencing their misdeeds.....he also said that India is the best country in the region and he hoped it becomes even better :D

After listening to all that my chest was pumped with pride and I told my friend....sorry dude....no discounts here....you gotta pay full price. :mrgreen:
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

Some interesting things happening in Amreeka. Legally they are probably right in claiming that there is "No Firm Evidence of Pakistani Complicity". But I saw some news that someone in the House of Representatives has introduced a bill hitching US aid to Pakistan on proving that there was no complicity. If that is true saying that "there is no evidence of complicity" is not enough. There has to be proof of lack of complicity.

This may mean zilch ultimately because the US has certified previously that Pakistan is not making nuclear weapons.

The bill wants the "State dept" to certify that. The state dept is Hilary Clinton and Obama is her boss and if the say al iz well then the aid will go through.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by negi »

I wont be surprised if the huge piece of land on which the mansion was built was owned by some TSPA wallah which later was passed to LeT/JuD for the cause.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

Shiv-ji

The bill is not going anywhere. Boehner the speaker has come out and said that Paki-US relationship should be maintained. The repubs are not going to overrule him. In any case, the house is just a bunch of jokers anyway. It is the senate that matters. Now Boehner could have made that statement because of many reasons. Unkil could have bought a section of ISI who are helping Unkil out and he is in the know and does not want to rock the boat. Maybe Ashphuck was informed 5 mins before the operation and asked to stand down -- or else...

This is a very fluid situation in the US. The general mood seems to be (among the lawmakers) "Let us not rock the boat". The general mood amongst the public seems to be "Why are we giving Pakis so much money".
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Rangudu »

All the action in Congress is not totally useless, but we'd be wasting our time waiting for something significant from India's point of view.

What is more important is to watch what Western apologists and diehard supporters are doing. We all read what Anatol Lieven wrote in his book and in various recent articles. But read this today
Last edited by Rangudu on 06 May 2011 07:52, edited 1 time in total.
Anujan
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

^^^^^
R-man, can you repost the link?
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Rangudu »

Guys,

The LeT connection has now been confirmed. We know that Hassan Ghul, a Pakistani courier for Al Qaeda, was caught in Iraq carrying a message between Al Zarqawi and Bin Laden. He was the guy who gave up the name of Osama's final protector/courier.

Guess what we know now about Ghul
A former CIA official said Hassan Ghul told CIA interrogators that he was helping Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistani militant group with historical links to Pakistani intelligence. The CIA reluctantly returned him to the Pakistanis in 2006 in the hopes of earning some political leverage, the former CIA official said, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by vina »

Anujanhullah-ud-feigned-indifference-e-Mohtarmas was right.

The CIA had taken over an nearby apartment on rent, surveilling that place 24*7 , photographing any visitors there, intercepting cellphone calls, and RADAR SATELLITE used to check for underground tunnels leading from that place.

Data From Raid Links Bin Laden to New Terror Plots
The C.I.A. had Bin Laden’s compound under surveillance for months before American commandos killed him in an assault on Monday, watching and photographing residents and visitors from a rented house nearby, according to several officials briefed on the operation.

Observing from behind mirrored glass, C.I.A. officers used cameras with telephoto lenses and infrared imaging equipment to study the compound, and they used sensitive eavesdropping equipment to try to pick up voices from inside the house and to intercept cellphone calls. A satellite used radar to search for possible escape tunnels.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

How many hours for Daoud Gilani to be linked to OBL Abbotabad safe house?
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

From NYT

Image
A photograph published in a Pakistani newspaper on Wednesday appeared to show the passport of Osama bin Laden’s Yemeni wife, Amal Ahmed Abdulfattah, who reportedly survived the raid on his compound and is now in Pakistani custody.

---
Osama bin Laden’s Yemeni wife, who survived the American raid on the family’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, said that her husband had lived there for five years, according to a Pakistani military official who spoke to The BBC on Thursday.

The official also said that the woman, Amal Ahmed Abdulfattah – whose Yemeni passport was leaked to a Pakistani newspaper this week – claimed that she had not left the room her husband was killed in on Monday for the past five years. She apparently confirmed that she was shot in the leg during the raid, as American officials have said, and added that she then passed out and so did not witness her husband being shot and killed.

The Pakistani official reiterated that Bin Laden’s daughter, who is said to be 12 or 13, told her mother later that she had witnessed her father being shot.

According to the Pakistani official, the woman was one of three wives of Al Qaeda’s leader who lived in the compound. All three women, and as many as 13 children detained at the compound, are now in Pakistani custody.

...

Although White House officials initially said that Bin Laden was armed when American forces found him, the Obama administration has now confirmed that he was not – though an AK-47 and a pistol are said to have been within his reach.

...

The home page of Granma’s English-language still features a report published last month, which deplores “the double standard inherent in U.S. policy when it comes to terrorism.” In that article, the newspaper reports that a “committee of relatives of victims who died in the 1976 sabotage of a Cuban airliner over Barbados again demanded that the President of the United States, Barack Obama, initiate the prosecution of Luis Posada Carriles as a terrorist.”

...

To return to the subject of our 9:56 a.m. update, here is a new photograph of the marijuana growing just outside the walls of Osama bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, taken on Thursday by Nevine Mabro, a journalist for Britain’s Channel 4 News, and friend of The Lede:

Image
Marijuana growing just outside the walls of Osama bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by saip »

Unless he was targeting several trains at the same time it wouldn't have caused many casualties. Today I travelled by Amtrak and most of the train was empty. May be NY subway in rush hour?
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

ramana wrote:How many hours for Daoud Gilani to be linked to OBL Abbotabad safe house?
Not many, the cadet school they went to is near PMA.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Aviation Geeks Scramble to ID bin Laden Raid’s Mystery Copter

BIN LADEN: THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT: Raffi Khatchadourian

Property records suggest another alias for bin Laden aide
Now records of the land in Abbottabad on which the compound was built, obtained by the Associated Press, identify the man who bought the property. In a series of methodical transactions beginning in 2004, the buyer is listed as Mohammed Arshad. And the records, combined with neighbors' and U.S. officials' accounts of the men who lived with bin Laden in the compound, suggest that Arshad was probably another alias for the Kuwaiti-born Pakistani courier for bin Laden known to the CIA for years as Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti. In Abbottabad, the man was apparently known as Arshad Khan.

The Associated Press's Narar Khan and Nahal Toosi report:

Property records obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday show that a man named Mohammed Arshad bought the land in Abbottabad where bin Laden's compound was built. He bought the adjoining plots in four stages between 2004 and 2005 and paid $48,000.

Qazi Mahfooz Ul Haq, a doctor, told the AP that he sold a plot of land to Arshad in 2005. He said the buyer was a sturdily built man who had a tuft of hair under his lower lip. He spoke with an accent that sounded like it was from Waziristan, a tribal region close to Afghanistan that is home to many al-Qaida operatives.

"He was a very simple, modest, humble type of man" who was "very interested" in buying the land for "an uncle," the doctor said.

The doctor saw Arshad a few times after he sold him the land, he said. On one of those occasions, Arshad cryptically said, "your land is now very costly"--meaning valuable.

Neighbors of the bin Laden compound said one of the two Pakistani men living in the house who periodically ventured outside went by the name Arshad Khan, and roughly matched the physical description of Mohammed Arshad.

The two names apparently refer to the same man and both names may be fake. But one thing is clear—bin Laden relied on a small, trusted inner circle as lifelines to the outside who provided for his daily needs such as food and medicine and kept his location secret. And it appears they did not betray him.


Did the men who sold the property to Mohammed Arshad have reason to be suspicious about the man from Waziristan and the mysterious "uncle?" Or his willingness to pay more to buy up the increasingly "costly" surrounding land to a total property some eight times larger than others in the area?

The fact that the buyer was seemingly from Waziristan, another Pashto-speaking area, would not have raised suspicion in and of itself, said Columbia University Prof. Hassan Abbas, a Pakistan security expert.

Nevertheless, added the former Pakistan police officer, there were many other reasons the compound should have caught the attention of local authorities years ago.

"This was a house which was previously under surveillance by Pakistani [security services]," Abbas said, referring to the reported 2003 Pakistani raid on the compound to arrest another al Qaeda operative named al-Libi. "Al-Libi was found around this house. That in itself should have ensured that this place was regularly monitored. The second point is that in [January 2011] an Indonesian militant [Umar Patek, accused in the Bali bombing] was arrested in the area."

What's more, the Saudi-born bin Laden lived on the compound with his Yemeni fifth wife and several children, and with the courier and the courier's brother and their families, also with several small children. Given that this is more than 20 residents in all, Abbas said, certainly from time to time people in the town had to be used to fix the electricity or to attend to sick children, and would realize foreigners were living there. The compound also had security cameras on it, he added, something people would have found suspicious in such an area.

Pakistani authorities have detained the women and children who U.S. forces left at the compound, including bin Laden's wife, who was wounded in the raid. They have said the United States cannot have access for questioning, NPR reported.
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Re: News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Pranav »

There is a theory that OBL may have been shot, but did not kick the bucket. As per this theory, he is still alive and in US custody. US did not want to give him legal process, so they just announced that he is dead. They couldn't show anybody the body, because there isn't one as yet. That also explains the haste in declaring that he had been fed to the fishes. They announced the DNA testing without realizing that DNA testing takes a long time. The story regarding the way OBL died has also been changing - first he was shooting from behind his wife, then he was unarmed but "resisting". There is also a third story that he was shot in "cold blood". This instability may be due to the problem of reconciling the US narrative with that of the wives and kids in Pak custody. Once the US is done with him, they will shoot him, and maybe pics will then be leaked.
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